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ogenoct
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 12:19 PM
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/Generalplanostnew.htm#[4]

THE NAZI REVOLUTION IN GERMAN FOREIGN POLICY

THE IMPORTANCE OF GENERAL PLAN OST (GENERAL PLAN EAST)


WFF Documentary material on General Plan Ost can be read here. (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpo%20sources.htm)

Note: With the exception of the quotes from Mein Kampf, the translations of other quotations below have been provided by the World Future Fund staff.

In the nineteenth century the world experienced the most massive period of global imperialism since the time of the Mongol invasions of the thirteenth century. By 1900 four great empires had emerged: two giant land empires, America and Russia, and two giant overseas colonial empires, France and England.

Unfortunately, the scramble for world empire created the seeds of conflict, particularly since one major world power, Germany, had come late to the game of world empire and had ended up on the losing end of the global imperial power struggle. Other nations were also deeply embittered. China had been knocked out as a world power and was being torn to pieces by the European powers. Japan had survived but remained bitterly discontented with its share of world territory.

Imperial Germany's defeat in World War I compounded the sense of desperation in German geopolitical circles. Germany was stripped of the few colonies it had gained. The German fleet was sent to the bottom. The German army was so weakened that Germany could not even match the power of the Czech Army. (Click here to see a 1939 German view of Germany's position in the world as related to Britain and its Empire.) (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/world%20empires.htm)

It was within this context that Adolf Hitler began his bid for power. At the same time another figure in world geopolitics also sought power for Germany. This man was Karl Haushofer, one of Germany's leading geopolitical minds. Haushofer was a a highly ambitious man with a keen instinct for political intrigue. Through his friendship with Rudolf Hess, Hitler's deputy, Haushofer was able to bring his ideas to the attention of Hitler. At the same time, through his travels in Japan he also found a receptive audience among Japan's leaders.

Haushofer succeeded in convincing the leaders of Germany and Japan that both nations faced doom unless they were able to create giant land empires to match the four great world powers. Where would this land come from? There was only one answer, the Soviet Union. The cornerstone of Nazi foreign policy was the conquest of the European part of the Soviet Union, ideally in coordination with a Japanese conquest of Siberia. (The following map shows the world as it might have been if this plan had been carried out.) (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/GPO%20Maps/Axisplans.htm)

Writing in, Mein Kampf (My Struggle), in 1924, Hitler declared,

"We National Socialists consciously draw a line through the foreign policy trend of our pre-War period. We take up at the halting place of six hundred years ago. We terminate the endless German drive to the south and west of Europe, and turn our gaze toward the lands in the east. We finally terminate the colonial and trade policy of the pre-War period and proceed to the territorial policy of the future … if we talk about new soil and territory in Europe today, we can think primarily only of Russia and its vassal border states."[1]

Hitler's model for his empire was America. He greatly admired America's policy of forced deportations of local inhabitants and their replacements by European immigrants. He sought to duplicate this concept on a far larger scale using far more specific concepts of racial and eugenic thinking. Hitler sought nothing less than a racial and demographic revolution in Europe, where the racial and genetic structure of Europe's population would be rearranged forever by means of a huge empire in the east where the "Aryan" blood of Europe would expand its share of Europe's population.

As Hitler stated,"There only one task, Germanization through the infusion of Germans and to treat the original inhabitants like the Indians," meaning their forced removal.[ (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/Generalplanostnew.htm#)2] (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/Generalplanostnew.htm#[2])

Hitler never significantly altered the global geopolitical vision that he outlined in Mein Kampf. Throughout the 1930s, in fact, Hitler and his representatives attempted numerous diplomatic maneuvers, before resorting to war, that were intended to give Germany a free hand in Eastern Europe. These maneuvers included attempts to form an agreement between Great Britain and Germany, in an effort to keep Britain out of a future German-Soviet conflict.

1937 Ribbentrop-Churchill Meeting in London

In 1937, for example, Winston Churchill held an extended conversation with Joachim vom Ribbentrop, who was Germany's ambassador to Britain at the time. Ribbentrop was remarkably frank during the discussion, explaining to Churchill that

"Germany sought the friendship of England ... Germany would stand guard for the British Empire in all its greatness and extent ... What was required was that Britain give Germany a free hand in the East of Europe. She must have her Lebensraum, or living-space, for her increasing population. Therefore, Poland and the Danzig Corridor must be absorbed. White Russia and the Ukraine were indispensable to the future life of the German Reich of more than seventy million souls. Nothing less would suffice. All that he asked of the British Commonwealth and Empire was not to interfere. There was a large map on the wall, and the Ambassador several times led me to it to illustrate his projects."[3] (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/Generalplanostnew.htm#[3])

Two years later, on the occasion of his birthday in April 1939, Hitler made similar comments at the Reich Chancellery in Berlin. According to one of his personal architects, Hermann Giesler, Hitler made the following comments:

"As always, everything comes down to [living] space' ... He (Hitler) did not want Germany's colonies any longer - at least not in the sense that one typically understands the idea: i.e., colonial possessions. ... [Hitler stated] 'Basically I am convinced that a people, as well as individuals, should not break the connection they have to the environment into which they were born. Foreigners, as well as some of our own alienated intelligentsia, mock the phrase 'blood and soil'. However, I find confirmation of this concept upon looking back into history, especially into ancient times. Only the connection of a people to its environment allows its living will to grow and the strength of its long-standing, multifaceted culture to become differentiated. (p.375) ... The German people belongs to continental Europe.'"

Adolf Hitler spoke further about the seizure of land in areas and on continents that was practically empty of people or was thinly settled, such as the areas of the present-day USA, of Canada, and of Australia. He then sketched out the brutal repression or extermination of the far inferior native inhabitants."[4] (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/Generalplanostnew.htm#[4])

1939 MEETING BETWEEN HITLER AND BURCKHARDT AT THE BERGHOF
(WFF has only English translation of transcript of this on the web.) (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/Burckhardt.htm)

Finally, only weeks before the outbreak of war, Hitler hosted Carl J. Burckhardt, the League of Nations High Commissioner for the Free City of Danzig, at his private retreat on the Obersalzberg. Hitler expressed his aims to Burckhardt in no uncertain terms:

"We need grain and timber. For the grain I need space in the east; for the timber I need a colony, only one [colony] ... Our harvests in 1938 and in this year were excellent. We can survive, in spite of the triumphant cries of others that we will starve ... However, one day the soil will have had enough ... What then? ... I do not harbor any romantic aims. I have no wish to rule. Above all I want nothing from the West; nothing today and nothing tomorrow. I desire nothing from the thickly settled regions of the world ... All of the notions that are ascribed to me by other people are inventions. However, I must have a free hand in the east. To repeat: it is a question of grain and timber, which I can find only outside of Europe."

"Everything I undertake is directed against Russia. If the West is too stupid and too blind to comprehend this I will be forced to reach an understanding with the Russians, turn and strike the West, and then after their defeat turn back against the Soviet Union with my collected strength. I need the Ukraine and with that no one can starve us out as they did in the last war." [5] (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/Generalplanostnew.htm#[5])

The conquest of Russia's economic and agricultural assets would create a global superpower that could become the number one state in the world. This idea was not a fairy tale. Had Britain remained neutral (as Hitler hoped) a joint German and Japanese invasion of Russia would almost certainly have succeeded. A map of Hitler's long term goals of conquest can be seen here. (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/GPO%20Maps/HitlerEurope.htm)

IMPLEMENTING GENERAL PLAN OST

Soon after Germany conquered Poland in September 1939, Hitler directed SS chief Heinrich Himmler to begin distilling his geopolitical aims into a formal plan of action. The newly conquered territories of Poland, and lands Germany intended to conquer in the western Soviet Union, lands Himmler referred to as the "California of Europe," would be "Germanized."[6] (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/Generalplanostnew.htm#[6]) In 1940, Himmler had experts in the Reich Office for the Strengthening of Germandom (RKFDV) and the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) develop plans for the territory won by the Third Reich through its military conquests in Eastern Europe. Known alternately by their names as the Generalplan Ost or the Gesamtplan Ost (GPO), the different versions of these plans envisaged a comprehensive restructuring of social, political, ethnic, and economic life in occupied Bohemia and Moravia, Poland, the Baltic States, and regions of the Soviet Union west of the Ural Mountains according to National Socialist racial-political principles. The GPO was in effect a utopian, ideologically oriented plan for the creation of a German land-based empire in the east. As such, the Generalplan Ost represented the most detailed statement ever produced during the Third Reich of long-term foreign policy goals that Adolf Hitler had first articulated in the mid-1920s.

Following an anticipated victory over the USSR by Nazi Germany in 1941, the SS (assisted by military and civilian authorities) intended to depopulate the regions listed above through the use of mass deportations and the physical liquidation of some parts of the indigenous population. Those who had been uprooted would be forced across the Ural Mountains into western Siberia. Still others would be disposed of using mass killing methods perfected by the SS during the slaughter of European Jewry. For reasons that remain unclear, SS planners included in the GPO provisions for the expulsion of all of Europe's Jews from the German sphere of influence, even though the regime had begun deliberately murdering Jews en masse in late summer 1941. The Slavs and Jews expelled from the "new German East" would then be prevented from returning west by the creation of a fortified borderland that stretched from the Arctic Sea to Astrakhan in the Caucasus.

In their place, the SS intended to settle communities of millions German warrior-farmers (Wehrbauern) from Germany, Holland, Norway, Denmark, and other countries with Germanic-Nordic racial stock would settle in the lands between the eastern frontier and the German homeland. This picture from an official Nazi publication shows a German vision of its geopolitical future in an eastern empire. (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpopicture.htm)

[1] Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf 8th Edition (New York: Houghton Mifflin, 1939), pp. 950-951.


[2] Minutes of Hitler Conference, 17 October 1941 reproduced in Czesław Madajczyk, ed., [i]Generalny Plan Wschodni: Zbiór dokumentów (Warszawa: Glówna Komisja Badania Zbrodni Hitlerowskich w Polsce, 1990).

[3] Winston S. Churchill, The Second World War: The Gathering Storm (Cambridge: The Riverside Press, 1948), pp. 222-223.

[4] Hermann Giesler, Ein Anderer Hitler: Bericht Seines Architekten Hermann Giesler (Leoni am Starnberger See: Druffel-Verlag, 1978), pp. 374-375.

[5] Carl J. Burckhardt, Meine Danziger Mission 1937-1939 (München: Verlag Georg D.W. Callwey, 1980), pp. 339-346.

[6] Himmler quoted in Ihor Kamenetsky, Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe: A Study of Lebensraum Policies (New York: Bookman Associates, 1961), p. 191.


Documentary material on General Plan Ost can be read here. (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpo%20sources.htm)

Siegmund
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 01:50 PM
Nice summary, though I would say that "mad" and "evil" are in the eye of the beholder.

Here's something that might interest you in turn. The link can be found here (http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/29/135936.shtml) .

Stalin’s Aggressive War Plans Disclosed
Thomas Titura

Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Book Review:
"Stalin’s Other War: Soviet Grand Strategy, 1939-1941"
Rowman & Littlefield, 2003, paperback

Here is an important new book by an expert on Soviet history, who finally sets the record straight on one of the most distorted subjects in the writing of modern world history, and World War II in particular.

In his latest book, Professor Albert Weeks presents the reader with an analysis of a large amount of newly discovered secret information contained in documents from formerly closed Soviet archives. The documents reveal that Stalin was planning to wage offensive war against Germany and, in fact, the West as a whole as a “windfall” from a second world war.

Among the telltale documents are transcripts of Stalin’s famous toast to graduates of the Soviet military academies, May 5, 1941. The author also reproduces the text of Stalin’s previously hotly disputed secret speech to the Soviet Politburo of Aug. 19, 1939.

This was just days before the signing of the Hitler-Stalin pact, known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop, or Nazi-Soviet pact, which included secret protocols about the territorial division of Poland, the Baltics and Bessarabia.

The Stalin text was discovered in Russian archives and has been confirmed by diary entries of Comintern head Georgi Dimitrov. In his speech Stalin predicts that Germany will have to fight a long war against France and England that will allow the Soviet Union to sovietize not only defeated Germany but also France.

An even more important document is from the Soviet General Staff. It is a war plan drawn up against Germany. It calls outright for a pre-emptive strike against German forces. The document, titled “Considerations of the Plan for the Strategic Deployment of the Armed forces of the Soviet Union in Case of War with Germany and its Allies,” is dated May 15, 1941.

The document was prepared by General, later Marshal, A. Vasilievsky, Deputy Head of the Operations Department of the Soviet General Staff (Stavka), and presented to Stalin by Commissar of Defense S. Timoshenko and Chief of the General Staff G. Zhukov. The 15-page document calls explicitly for a pre-emptive strike against German forces.

This fully conforms to the offensive military doctrine of the Soviets that called for “deep operations” into enemy territory (a fact confirmed by many Soviet officers and historians, but neglected and disputed by various foreign authors (e.g., David Glantz and historian Gabriel Gorodetsky, who tend to use pro-Soviet arguments throughout their books). Weeks, in fact, convincingly critiques Glantz’s and Gorodetsky’s arguments.

It seems clear to this reviewer that both of these authors were granted access to Soviet archives precisely because they stuck to the line of official Soviet historiography. Their books, moreover, are customarily given favorable reviews in Russian publications that hew to traditional views while ignoring the new findings of the younger, post-Soviet historians who were canvassed by Weeks.

Weeks uses a number of books and documents that have only recently been published in Russia. He thereby allows the reader to form his own opinion based on these materials. This is a great advantage over many other books that try to ignore every little detail that might contradict the author’s arguments.

Some of the documents in this book have never been published before in English in their entirety. The wealth of information Weeks presents documenting Stalin’s “offensist” intentions is convincing to anyone with an open mind.

There can be no doubt that Stalin was developing detailed plans for attacking Hitler – either in 1941 or certainly by 1942. As it happened, Hitler managed to strike first against Soviet forces that were not quite ready to realize their own aggressive plans.

Anyone with an interest in the latest revelations from Stalin’s archives and who is curious about Stalin’s own plans with respect to World War II should read this fascinating book. Highly recommended!

Editor's Note: Dr. Weeks, coiner of the expression "sputnik" as a common noun (as published in Newsweek, October 1957), is the author of several books on the Soviet Union and Communism.

ogenoct
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 06:28 PM
The documents reveal that Stalin was planning to wage offensive war against Germany
So what? Even if Stalin had planned to attack first, it would have been a pre-emptive strike on his part - and a justified one at that since Hitler ALWAYS planned to attack Russia, not because it was a threat to Germany but because he wanted living space for the actualization of his chauvinist phantasies (Nordic wet dreams). I WISH that Stalin would have attacked before the Nazis did. The Red Horde of Liberation would have freed Europe from the twin yokes of capitalism and fascism.

Constantin

Siegmund
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 07:07 PM
So what? Even if Stalin had planned to attack first, it would have been a pre-emptive strike on his part - and a justified one at that since Hitler ALWAYS planned to attack the Russia, not because it was a threat to Germany but because he wanted living space for the actualization of his chauvinist phantasies.
Hitler's intention to create living space in the east was no secret. But to imply that Stalin and the Soviet Union were no threat to Germany beggers the imagination.



I WISH that Stalin would have attacked before the Nazis did. The Red Horde of Liberation would have freed Europe from the twin yokes of capitalism and fascism.
LOL. The "Red Horde of Liberation" had a free hand in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, did it not? Just compare the Germany of 1933-39 with the USSR (since 1917) and Eastern Europe (since 1945).

The prosperous German Reich had to be destroyed by the Allied Horde from the outside, while the impoverished Soviet bloc literally rotted from the inside, unable to compete economically or even ideologically with a capitalist west that it helped empower with the destruction of Germany.

ogenoct
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 07:21 PM
Hitler's intention to create living space in the east was no secret. But to imply that Stalin and the Soviet Union were no threat to Germany beggers the imagination.
If you are a German chauvinist and anti-Aryan, you can applaud Hitler's intention. However, as a pan-European nationalist I find this attitude rather dismaying, to say the least. While Hitler planned to annihilate vast amounts of Slavs and enslave or deport the rest (in order to "germanize" the territory), Stalin had no such plans for Western Europe. This is proven since it was Stalin who, after World War II, offered that Germany should be unified and neutral (under a benevolent Communist regime). Unfortunately, the Allies (and West Germany, America's puppet state) rejected this gracious offer. Nevertheless, the German Democratic Republic was a model state: proud, Prussian and Socialist. Europe as a whole fared much better when (unfortunately only) one part of Germany was under the dominion of the USSR than if Nazi Germany would have been able to successfully become a menace to all the Eastern peoples.

Constantin

Stríbog
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 08:24 PM
The Red Horde of Liberation would have freed Europe from the twin yokes of capitalism and fascism.

Are you really this much of an ideologue, ready to explain away the deportations, the Ukrainian famine and the mass rapes?

ogenoct
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 08:30 PM
Are you really this much of an ideologue, ready to explain away the deportations, the Ukrainian famine and the mass rapes?
Of course not. I am not arguing that Stalin's version of Bolshevism was perfect, but it was morally superior to National Socialism and Fascism. I do not believe that the famine in the Ukraine was a crime that was committed intentionally. What mass rapes are you referring to? I am not excusing the crimes that Soviet soldiers committed, but these actions were hardly condoned by the Soviet High Command. The "deportations" have also been grossly exaggerated. It was mostly criminals and counterrevolutionaries that were sent to the gulags. America today has more people imprisoned than during the heyday of Stalin's reign.

Constantin

Siegmund
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 08:44 PM
If you are a German chauvinist and anti-Aryan, you can applaud Hitler's intention. However, as a pan-European nationalist I find this attitude rather dismaying, to say the least. While Hitler planned to annihilate vast amounts of Slavs and enslave or deport the rest (in order to "germanize" the territory), Stalin had no such plans for Western Europe. This is proven since it was Stalin who, after World War II, offered that Germany should be unified and neutral (under a benevolent Communist regime). Unfortunately, the Allies (and West Germany, America's puppet state) rejected this gracious offer. Nevertheless, the German Democratic Republic was a model state: proud, Prussian and Socialist. Europe as a whole fared much better when (unfortunately only) one part of Germany was under the dominion of the USSR than if Nazi Germany would have been able to successfully become a menace to all the Eastern peoples.
In my lexicon, pan-European does not mean blending the races together under an internationalist banner but rather respecting the unique genius of each and allowing them to coexist and prosper as distinct national organisms.

Stalin's promises had no credibility to anyone.

I can refer to documented anecdotal evidence from participants in Strength through Joy as well as to reams of economic statistics showing that Germans under the Reich were reasonably prosperous in comparison with what came before and after. I don't pretend to be an expert on the DDR, and would be curious to hear from you and any others, especially Germans, why you feel the DDR was "a model state" and if ordinary German citizens living there felt that way.

But as far as I know, your model state was a colossal economic failure in comparison with the former West Germany. Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev had it backwards when he said, "The working class of Germany has erected a wall so that no wolf can break into the German Democratic Republic again." In the period prior to the erection of the Berlin Wall in 1961, over 3 million people left the DDR in search of something better.


http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/DDR/jhj.gif

Stríbog
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 09:15 PM
I do not believe that the famine in the Ukraine was a crime that was committed intentionally.

Most Ukrainians and honest historians would beg to differ.



What mass rapes are you referring to?

Those in Germany, Hungary, Romania, and other territories 'liberated' by Bolshevism.



I am not excusing the crimes that Soviet soldiers committed, but these actions were hardly condoned by the Soviet High Command.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/98/07/articles/Ehrenburg0798.html

Ilya Ehrenburg, Minister of Soviet Propaganda and disseminator of anti-German hate material dating from the 1930s. Ehrenburg instigated the Soviet Red Army rape and murder of German civilians. Referring to German women, Ehrenburg gloated to the advancing Red Army troops, "that blonde hag is in for a bad time."

In a leaflet addressed to Soviet troops, Ehrenburg wrote: "...the Germans are not human beings...nothing gives us so much joy as German corpses." (Anatol Goldberg, Ilya Ehrenburg, p. 197). Goldberg concedes that Ehrenburg, "...had always disliked the Germans...now that there was a war on he turned his old prejudice into an asset." (Ibid., p. 193).

Another publication distributed to the Red Army, this time as the soldiers approached Danzig, was described by a historian: "Millions of leaflets were air-dropped on the troops with a message composed by the propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg and signed by Stalin: 'Soldiers of the Red Army! Kill the Germans! Kill all Germans! Kill! Kill! Kill!" (Christopher Duffy, Red Storm on the Reich).

The Soviet leadership acknowledged that Ehrenburg sought the extermination of the entire German people (cf. Pravda, April 14, 1945. [Pravda was also published in a Yiddish edition, Einikeyt). Ehrenburg won the Order of Lenin and the Stalin Prize. He willed his papers to the Israeli Yad Vashem 'Holocaust' Museum.

http://www.hoffman-info.com/communist.html

It was Ehrenburg who urged the troops of the Red Army, as they advanced upon the eastern borders of a prostrate and defeated Germany, to rape and kill every German civilian they could find. Every German girl over the age of eight in the German village of Nemmersdorf was raped. German women were nailed to the sides of barns.

At Yalta and Potsdam Truman and Churchill approved Stalin's call for the forced deportation of millions of ethnic Germans in those territories ceded to him. This resukted in the mass deportation of all Germans from lands east of the rivers Oder and Neisse. Thousands of German civilians were crammed into railroad cattle cars by the Communists. Those Soviet trains arrived in Berlin with a cargo of dead and dying German children packed like sardines. No "holocaust" movies have been made about the plight of these hapless children. They were of the wrong nationality and religion.

http://www.hoffman-info.com/wash.html

As the Red Army advanced toward her in 1945, the city of Berlin had become a city virtually without men. Out of a civilian population of 2,700,000, 2,000,000 were women. It is small wonder that the fear of sexual attack raced through the city like a plague. Doctors were besieged by patients seeking information on the quickest way to commit suicide, and poison was in great demand.

In Berlin stood a charity institution, the Haus Dehlem, an orphanage, maternity hospital, and foundling home. Soviet soldiers entered the home, and repeatedly raped pregnant women and women who had just given birth. This was not an isolated incident. No one will ever know how many women were raped, but doctors' estimates run as high as 100,000 for the city of Berlin alone, their ages ranging from 10 to 70.

On March 24, 1945, our "noble Soviet allies" entered Danzig. A 50-year-old Danzig teacher reported that her niece, 15, was raped seven times, and her other niece, 22, was raped fifteen times. A Soviet officer told a group of women to seek safety in the Cathedral. Once they were securely locked inside, the beasts of Bolshevism entered, and ringing the bells and playing the organ, "celebrated" a foul orgy through the night, raping all the women, some more than thirty times. A Catholic pastor in Danzig declared, "They violated even eight-year-old girls and shot boys who tried to shield their mothers."

The Most Reverend Bernard Griffin, British Archbishop, made a tour of Europe to study conditions there, and reported, "In Vienna alone they raped 100,000 women, not once but many times, including girls not yet in their teens, and aged women."

http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs9512d.html



The "deportations" have also been grossly exaggerated.

By whom? The 'evil capitalists'?


It was mostly criminals and counterrevolutionaries that were sent to the gulags.

How dare those counterrevolutionaries ask that their families not be starved and murdered, or their property confiscated? Off to the gulags with them!


America today has more people imprisoned than during the heyday of Stalin's reign.

If this is true, it is only because Stalin ordered far more people killed outright than he did imprisoned.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 06:27 AM
When you look up "bad decision" in the dictionary, Hitler's invasion of Russia pops up as a definintion. This was wrong on so many levels for all concerned that discussion seems unwarrented. More interesting may be Hitler's reasoning for doing so. Mein Kampf is so full of echos of Karl Haushoffer that it seems he was the influence which put Hitler on this path. Comments?

The Blond Beast
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 10:01 AM
It was Ehrenburg who urged the troops of the Red Army, as they advanced upon the eastern borders of a prostrate and defeated Germany, to rape and kill every German civilian they could find. Every German girl over the age of eight in the German village of Nemmersdorf was raped. German women were nailed to the sides of barns.

At Yalta and Potsdam Truman and Churchill approved Stalin's call for the forced deportation of millions of ethnic Germans in those territories ceded to him. This resukted in the mass deportation of all Germans from lands east of the rivers Oder and Neisse. Thousands of German civilians were crammed into railroad cattle cars by the Communists. Those Soviet trains arrived in Berlin with a cargo of dead and dying German children packed like sardines. No "holocaust" movies have been made about the plight of these hapless children. They were of the wrong nationality and religion.

http://www.hoffman-info.com/wash.html

As the Red Army advanced toward her in 1945, the city of Berlin had become a city virtually without men. Out of a civilian population of 2,700,000, 2,000,000 were women. It is small wonder that the fear of sexual attack raced through the city like a plague. Doctors were besieged by patients seeking information on the quickest way to commit suicide, and poison was in great demand.

In Berlin stood a charity institution, the Haus Dehlem, an orphanage, maternity hospital, and foundling home. Soviet soldiers entered the home, and repeatedly raped pregnant women and women who had just given birth. This was not an isolated incident. No one will ever know how many women were raped, but doctors' estimates run as high as 100,000 for the city of Berlin alone, their ages ranging from 10 to 70.

On March 24, 1945, our "noble Soviet allies" entered Danzig. A 50-year-old Danzig teacher reported that her niece, 15, was raped seven times, and her other niece, 22, was raped fifteen times. A Soviet officer told a group of women to seek safety in the Cathedral. Once they were securely locked inside, the beasts of Bolshevism entered, and ringing the bells and playing the organ, "celebrated" a foul orgy through the night, raping all the women, some more than thirty times. A Catholic pastor in Danzig declared, "They violated even eight-year-old girls and shot boys who tried to shield their mothers."

The Most Reverend Bernard Griffin, British Archbishop, made a tour of Europe to study conditions there, and reported, "In Vienna alone they raped 100,000 women, not once but many times, including girls not yet in their teens, and aged women."


Unfortunately, mass rape did occur and was in absolutely no way excusable. Alas, I am weary of a lot of the supporting anecdotes, many of which undoubtedly came straight from Goebbels' propaganda mill.

Stríbog
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 10:40 AM
Unfortunately, mass rape did occur and was in absolutely no way excusable. Alas, I am weary of a lot of the supporting anecdotes, many of which undoubtedly came straight from Goebbels' propaganda mill.

The problem was that certain episodes of German misconduct and the explicit intentions of certain German leaders were bound to provoke some kind of reaction, though they certainly did not justify mass rape. Really, the Eastern Front was, IMO, the greatest tragedy in human history in terms of what was lost and what the outcome was. Hitler's policy brought Germany to ruin and resulted in Communism being firmly entrenched in Europe. I think it is reasonable to assume that Stalin would have struck west eventually, but regardless of Icebreaker, the fact remains that instead of utilizing Ukrainian and Russian anti-Communist sentiment, the Germans brushed the locals coldly aside and treated them as badly as the Communists had, or worse. Communism itself was also a disaster both for its opponents and for the people it promised to better. The entire Eastern theater sickens me and makes me want to cry over the loss of so many good people on both sides.

ogenoct
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 11:18 AM
honest historians would beg to differ.
The same "honest [=establishment] historians" would also beg to differ when you would confront them with the fact that the "Holocaust" never happened.

Lies Concerning the History of the Soviet Union:

http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc9912/lies.htm

C.

The Blond Beast
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 11:19 AM
Hitler's policy brought Germany to ruin and resulted in Communism being firmly entrenched in Europe.

It's only fitting that communism be Germany's ruin -- Germany should have been more prudent than to help foist Lenin and his seditious, internationalist Bolshevik menace on Russia during the Great War.


I think it is reasonable to assume that Stalin would have struck west eventually...

Surely, but there is a profound difference between wanting to spread an "ideal" and advocating the annihilation or enslavement of peoples whose land one happens to covet.


... the fact remains that instead of utilizing Ukrainian and Russian anti-Communist sentiment, the Germans brushed the locals coldly aside and treated them as badly as the Communists had, or worse.

Nazi policy was undoubtedly crass. The Russians found themselves between two dictators -- they chose the one who spoke Russian.

Siegmund
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 05:47 PM
Mein Kampf is so full of echos of Karl Haushoffer that it seems he was the influence which put Hitler on this path. Comments?
I looked into him as a result of your post but could find only a few passing references. Do you have a good source? Thanks...