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Azdaja
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 03:40 AM
Rudra and I were just talking in AIM, and he told me a way in which to measure CI without calipers. Here is what he wrote:

Rudra: Take a full frontal facial photo and a side photo ... ( since a good camera will not distort) you can then put it on a sheet of paper., or even the screen and measure the screen ... ( since the photo is 100% to scale ) and in the same resolution ... you get an accurate number to +/- 2% ( due to two factors SKIN, which we cannot compesate fore , hair ... ( if its significantly short it will not influence the measurement by much.) and lastly tecnique ... you have to know how to measure the scren

Rudra: Keep in mind ... hair DOES influence the mesurements, but if the head is shaved .... the measurement is flawless... ( you are then only limited by the accuracy of your meter stick ... ( I have some sticks that actually very accurate.. ( and if you really want to spend time... you can pixel count too .

XI Kalos XI: Well could also matt our hair down first with water, which would probably help a bit, right?

Siphra: pixel counting will give you the most accurate result without a caliper, but ; I must stress but ,,, it is subjective at both ends ... ( where does my 'face' pixel begin. where does it end...)
yes it would help alot, anything to flatten it out .

Siphra: the closer to profile you get the better .


So...what do you guys think about this? Would it be accurate?

Rudra Chai Siphra
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 03:47 AM
OK :

1) distance... try to use a tripod, and measure distance to the subject.

2) make certain that if you have printed the photo out ( or had it devolped) you are at the proper scale . ( 8x10... 8x10 no 8x10 5x7 shit)

if you are not careful, your photos are not to scale ... but by setting up the photo at a single point ... you get scale photos that can be compared 1 to 1 ... otherwise you need to know alot about computer enhancement.. which I am not qualified to go over in a MB thread.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 04:08 AM
Wouldn't the anthropology department of most Universities have calipers? I would rather march down there and demand that they measure me than take pictures and pixel count x_p

cosmocreator
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 04:09 AM
Or find a student in physical anthropology. He'd probably be more than willing to measure you.

Rudra Chai Siphra
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 04:10 AM
They may refuse you based upon the old ' we do not have the time for this ' ... on the other hand... may be they won't.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 04:34 AM
I think I will go and try! If it doesnt seem to work I'll just single out some male anthropology student who appreciates any form of female attention and get him to do it. :D

GreenHeart
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 07:18 AM
I used the pen and paper method, by marking the head width and length on paper (kind of like tracing your head, lol), and it came pretty accurate to the measurement I got later with calipers, which was about 75 if I remember right.

Azdaja
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 07:28 AM
NP88:

Can you explain in a bit more detail how to do that? I'm not sure I follow.

Hellstar
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 01:47 PM
I have a 19 Inch screen and my head is bigger than what could be measured, it dont seem to make sense.

There is of cause the old Method with Roller if you dont have a Calliper,

The Heimdall Method for roller measure, C.I

1) Measure the distance from one side of your head to the other, the places over each ear.

Note this down.

first measure is from the bone which is over your ear its alittle sticking out
you measure over head top to other ear bone, that is your wideness


2) Measure the length, from the point between your eyebrows,
at the top of your nose, to the back of your head,
where it sticks out.

LAST MEASSURE IS FROM "n" (nasal nose bone) to "op"
in the illustration

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/cranium.gif

Tips on measuring: try using calipers if you have them, or put your head in
a sliding door, measuring the gap to see the distance, or use strips of
paper. None of this will be exact, it is just to get a rough idea of your
cephalic index.

Hellstar
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 01:53 PM
In addition to Heimdalls Method, I can say my Cephalic index was 74,5 in this Method, but around 72-73 with Callipers. I would estimate you Kalos to be Hmmm perhaps even Dolichocephalism, but most like to be Sub-Mesocephalic or Mesocephalic.

You can buy Callipers cheap (15-30 dollars) some places on the internet. but real Anthropometrical tools are very expensive. (around 400 dollars for a Cephalic Index tool)

Azdaja
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 06:32 PM
HellStar:

This is going to sound stupid, but: what's a roller?

Using a sliding door is actually a pretty good idea. I think I'll try that one and then compare it to the results I get off of Rudras method....I'm going over his house today.
A few weeks ago we tried measuring with rulers. Once we had the numbers, Rudra somehow figured in the error of margin. I got figures ranging from 74.5 - 82 or so; in other words, completely useless.
I agree with you about being mesocephalic. I'd be very surprised if I was outside that range.

Hellstar
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 06:49 PM
Yea its properly my half broken English, but I mean a "CM roller" which appears to be typical a la 150 cm length, its a thin long roller measurement tool, flexible, bend and can measure on both sides.

You know something like that? Or I could take a webcam picture of mine.

Azdaja
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 06:58 PM
Your English is actually very good. I think the problem is that we use different words to refer to the same thing. Based on your description I think what you guys call "rollers", I call "measuring tape". But I could be completely wrong.

If you could take a photograph of yours that would be great!

Rudra Chai Siphra
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 10:20 PM
You should be able to zoom the picture out, so that it will fit on your screen ... most graphics programs will allow you to do this. then its just a simple matter of measuring.

GreenHeart
Thursday, January 30th, 2003, 11:46 PM
Well my method is you get a piece of paper, and lay your head on it, on a flat surface, table or floor. Then you take a marker, and try to line it up as straight and level as you possibly can, (it helps to use a standing mirror if you have one.) Mark on both sides of your head at the proper place- once with your face against the paper, and once with one side of your head against the paper. then take a normal ruler and measure the distance between marks. If you do it correctly, or get someone else to do it, it can be fairly accurate. But I like Hellstar's sliding door method a lot better, everyone has a sliding door or knows someone who does......:cool

Hellstar
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 01:42 AM
Your right Kalos, same thing, two words. I found a picture quality better than my webcam. here you go:

http://www.crime-scene.com/ecpi/media/6202_l.jpg

GreenHeart
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 02:59 AM
Aha, I have one of those, mine's red. It's used for sewing and tailoring measurements over here, lol. I used to use it for measuring progress in my exercising though.

Rudra Chai Siphra
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 03:37 AM
I dont know about how accurate that one would be though ...

Azdaja
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 06:36 AM
GRRRRR! This is driving me nuts. Rudra and I used his method to find our CI's. Mine came out to 80.4 but he told me there might be a margin of error up to +1, which means after all this crap I STILL don't know if I'm meso- or brachycephalic.
I'm just going to call the local College tommorrow and ask somebody in their anthropology department to measure my head.

GreenHeart
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 07:32 AM
Sometimes looking in the mirror is the best way to know, but if you are so close that you really couldn't tell, you must be borderline.

Azdaja
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 07:38 AM
I'm definantly right on the border, which is why this is such a pain in the ass. It's not like it really matters all that much, but it will still be nice to know.

tnbt
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 11:41 AM
I dont know if I am meso or doli.......

Hellstar
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Kalos
GRRRRR! This is driving me nuts. Rudra and I used his method to find our CI's. Mine came out to 80.4 but he told me there might be a margin of error up to +1, which means after all this crap I STILL don't know if I'm meso- or brachycephalic.
I'm just going to call the local College tommorrow and ask somebody in their anthropology department to measure my head. My eyes can see right away your Meso and not Brachycephalic, see how interesting it would be also, Hallstatt = Dolicho and Dinaric = Brachy and in-between You, all fitting with previous legacies:) anyway im just being honest your not Brachy with that slim face, remember this, if you measure with the roller and get 80 you have to take 1,-1,5 units of the calculation because the scull/Hair, It can be abit hard to measure with roller cause it can trick like in my case but still try it out, I must say the idea about measuring the screen is very creative but I do not think it holds water. I wonder what your nasal index is? Between 56-60 units?

GreenHeart
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by tnbt
I dont know if I am meso or doli.......

Well whats your cephalic index? :D

Azdaja
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 07:27 PM
Yeah, I agree with you HellStar. Even Rudra said that most likely the margin of error was not as great as +1...but still there was that chance.
My guess would be that I'm somewhere on the upper end of mesocephalic, with of course an extremely narrow face.
I took my NI and came out with about 63.0. I did it really crudely of course (with ruler), so it's more than likely within your range...maybe a bit higher. Leptorrhine in any case.
If I can hunt down a roller I'll definantly try it and see what I get. Thanks for the help! : )

cosmocreator
Friday, January 31st, 2003, 07:27 PM
Stick with scientific methods. These methods have too big margin of error.

GreenHeart
Sunday, February 2nd, 2003, 08:52 PM
My nasal index was 58 and my cephalic index was around 74.5-75 with calipers, but I used the roller for my head and got 79? Thats weird...... can't be too accurate.

Azdaja
Sunday, February 2nd, 2003, 10:42 PM
Well after talking with Rudra and showing him this thread, as well as pointing out in hindsight certain things we did wrong while using his method, he measured my CI more accurately (essentially, he was measuring the width inappropriately) and figured it actually lay between 78 and 79...which makes much more sense. I'm still going to a College at some point and have someone measure with calipers.

<< My nasal index was 58 and my cephalic index was around 74.5-75 with calipers, but I used the roller for my head and got 79? Thats weird...... can't be too accurate. >>

The thing with the rollers is that the number is always going to come out much higher than it actually is. The roller is not just measuring from point A to point B, but also the curvature of your skull between those two points.

Allenson
Tuesday, February 4th, 2003, 09:15 PM
Hi,

Try a 'sticky' pair of fire-place tongs. By sticky, I mean a pair that isn't so loose that they 'flop around' between the skull and the ruler.

I used this method before I acquired a pair of calipers. My CI came out the same in either case.

best