PDA

View Full Version : Ivan Bilibin and Konstantin Vasiliev [Paintings of Ancient Rus]



svarog
Monday, January 27th, 2003, 07:07 PM
I want to introduce you two great Russian artists: Ivan Bilibin (1876-1942) and Konstantin Vasiliev (1897-1976). I am big fan of both of them and of that great nordic atmosphere that you can see and feel in their art.

Ivan Bilibin

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/ibmoon.jpg

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/bilibinwhiteknight.jpg

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/crows.jpg

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/reading.jpg

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/woman2.jpg

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/wolf.jpg

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/bilibin1.jpg

http://fantasygallery.net/masters/bilibin/battleground.jpg



Konstantin Vasiliev

Battle with the dragon
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic5/11.jpg

Svyatogor's gift
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic5/10.jpg

Valkiria
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic5/12.jpg

Wotan
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic5/6.jpg

Spell of the fire
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic5/7.jpg

The North Eagle
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic6/5.jpg

Sventovit
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic5/15.jpg

Valkiria over a slain warrior
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic5/5.jpg

Paintings dedicated to WWII

Invasion
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic4/2.jpg

Slav's farewell
http://vasil.lipetsk.ru/pic4/4.jpg

There are many more, I am just afraid they won't fit on this page.

Legio_Melita
Monday, January 27th, 2003, 09:36 PM
Lovely paintings...but the Wotan one looks more like Tyr to me, just an opinion based on a lot of descriptions I've read.

Moody
Wednesday, January 29th, 2003, 07:17 PM
Wotan is usually described as one-eyed, and wearing a blue wide-brimmed hat or hood.

Tyr was a one-handed God, also known as Tiw, Thorburn [Tues-day is named after him].
He was thought to be the original ruler of the Asir, but was deposed by Wotan; his Rune is the spearhead, he being a God of War and Justice.

He lost his hand after Fenris Wolf bit it off [he placed it in the Wolf's jaws as a pledge].

NatRev
Thursday, February 20th, 2003, 12:04 PM
WOW!

Excellent pictures. Thankyou for enlightening us with these great paintings, Bilbin reminds me of 'fairy tale' drawings I used to have in a book on mythology as a kid, absolutely amazing images.

I'd say that Sventovit looks more like Tyr but I see where you're coming from.

I sort of imagine Wotan as being the 'daddy' of the Gods and so looking older (40-50), although historically Tyr and Thor (were they the same gods originally???) are much older, they became replaced by Wotan who was much more an aristocratic God, a god of writing, poetry, divinity and war. Tyr and Thor may have originally been like Mars and gods of the Earth as well as War but I think they were 'rural male' gods and sort of became gods of many things, eventually after other deities were incorporated into the group pantheon, they became more specialised.

Tyr's one hand reminds the warrior that ultimately, if he is to fight, he must be prepared to sacrifice himself or at least part of himself for the survival of the tribe.

To Moody Lawless and anyone else that can help:

I am interested in your views on the Vanir and Aesir, I get the impression they were two tribal nations, the former being more agrarian and probably pre-bronze age, the latter might be a nomadic warrior tribe who invaded several thousand years ago.

Does this fit in with any racial migration theories of north Europeans?



Regards

ps, I think my favourite is "Svyatogor's gift", who was he, was he a king or a God? Do you know if he corresponds to a Nordic counterpart?

Thanks

J

Moody
Friday, February 21st, 2003, 06:07 PM
Yes, I too believe that the Vanir represent the Old European pre-Aryan agrarian populations who were subjugated by the later Aryan invaders.

This does fit in with the evidence of Indo-European[or Aryan] intrusions into Europe, beginning about 3,000 BC with invasions into Anatolia and the Balkans.
The horse is reckoned to be introduced into those regions by the Aryan invaders who came from the Pontic steppe.
This is the Early Bronze Age, of course.
It is thought that Aryans now settled in Anatolia/the Balkans then went on to invade Greece around 2,000 BC.

The Norse myths talk of the two tribes or (sub-)races of the Vanir and the Aesir.
The Vanir [name means the 'Beautiful Ones'] were Fertility gods who guarded the fruitfulness of the sea and the earth as well as the procreation of all creatures [including man] in the world.
They were gentle and creative, and distrusted the other race of gods, the Aesir [name's meaning not known, but Snorri Sturuluson thinks it is from 'Asia', others think it to mean 'The Old'; the former is based on his folk knowledge of the Aesir's migration from 'Asia' into Europe].

The Vanir were noted for their abilities as seers and magicians, and included shamanism among their practices. Their connection to the Soil and to feminine mysteries make them typically pre-Aryan and ROOTED.

The Aesir were war gods and creator gods - gods of the Sky; nomadic, yes, - and riding into battle on chariots [it was probably this superior technology that allowed the Aryans to conquer Europe].

War erupted between the Vanir and Aesir which ended in a truce where hostages were exchanged.
To Gunther this symbolises the Aesir "absorbing" the Vanir, but without "reinterpreting" them in a thoroughly Aryan spirit.
So to Gunther, the "non-Aryan" aspects of Norse mythology are due to this subracial combination between the Vanir and the Aesir [see Gunther, 'Religious Attitudes of the Indo-Europeans'].

The Vanir betrayed the truce and beheaded one of their Aesir hostages, sending the severed head back to the Aesir.
This was a great mistake as the head [Mimir's head] became the fount of all wisdom and allowed the Aesir to eclipse the gods of the Vanir.
However, it should be noted that one of the Vanir [Honir, a hostage to the Aesir, and the one who breathed life into the first men] will survive Ragnarok.

A development of this view brings in the 'war of the functions'.
In Aryan society there are usually three strata, viewed in descending order of caste;

1. Warriors,
2. Priests,
3. Cultivators.

It is thought that the Aryan invaders comprised of 1. and 2. [another subracial combination in itself?].
When they pushed out of the Aryan homeland and fell upon those agrarian populations the caste of 3. was created.
The Eddas have a tale called the Lay of Rig which presents these three functions in subracial terms.

So the war between the Vanir and the Aesir is the war between 3.[Vanir], and the allied forces of 1. and 2.[Aryans]
The outcome is Aryan society and its High Culture, whether Indic, Hellenic, Roman or Germanic.

Mallory says of this;

"Certain striking parallels concerning the Roman account of the Sabine War, the Norse myth concerning the war between the Aesir and the Vanir, and the Indic epic 'Mahabharata' have provided some support for a Proto-Indo-European 'War of the Functions' ..." "... Indeed, the 'Iliad' [Homer] itself has been examined in a similar light".
[Mallory, 'in Search of the Indo-Europeans' page 139]

So the hypothesis is a safe one, and like all 'myth', it repays meditation on the intricacies of its meaning.

NatRev
Sunday, March 16th, 2003, 09:51 PM
Was Kvasir a mixture off all the Aesirs and Vanirs?

This seems to ring a bell in my head.

Moody
Tuesday, March 18th, 2003, 06:30 PM
In some accounts Kvasir is of the Vanir, sent to make peace with the Aesir; in other accounts he is formed from the spittle of BOTH Vanir and Aesir when they make a peace truce by spitting into the same bowl.

So Kvasir is borne of this mixture of Vanir and Aesir.
He gets murdered, however, and his Blood becomes the Mead of Poetry.

There is much suggestive stuff there; also I am reminded of the famous Middle Ages account of the pagan Viking Rus by the Muslim traveller Ibn Fadlan.
He describes how the Vikings pass around a single washing bowl with which each bathes and spits into, before handing the bowl onto the next to do the same, and so on.

NatRev
Tuesday, March 18th, 2003, 11:59 PM
I seem to remember an episode of Steptoe & Son where Wilfred Bramble makes a deal with someone, to seal the contract he spits on his hand and shakes the other chaps hand, (UGH!).

Was this common practice amongst the working classes a generation or two ago in the UK?

Moody
Wednesday, March 19th, 2003, 04:16 PM
If that is so, then it is yet another example of the 'Nordic origins of the ancient Rus'.

Of course, the Viking Rus practice of sharing saliva within the tribe meant sharing antibodies, and so has a practical advantage.

Have you read Ibn Fadlan's account of the ancient Rus?
Some of the practices described there are hardly savoury, and would be thought by our puritans to be 'un-Nordic'.

Rune Master Edred Thorsson has made a useful translation of Ibn Fadlan.

torrent
Wednesday, March 19th, 2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Moody Lawless
Yes, I too believe that the Vanir represent the Old European pre-Aryan agrarian populations who were subjugated by the later Aryan invaders.

This does fit in with the evidence of Indo-European[or Aryan] intrusions into Europe, beginning about 3,000 BC with invasions into Anatolia and the Balkans. The horse is reckoned to be introduced into those regions by the Aryan invaders who came from the Pontic steppe. This is the Early Bronze Age, of course. It is thought that Aryans now settled in Anatolia/the Balkans then went on to invade Greece around 2,000 BC.

The Norse myths talk of the two tribes or (sub-)races of the Vanir and the Aesir. The Vanir [name means the 'Beautiful Ones'] were Fertility gods who guarded the fruitfulness of the sea and the earth as well as the procreation of all creatures [including man] in the world.

They were gentle and creative, and distrusted the other race of gods, the Aesir [name's meaning not known, but Snorri Sturuluson thinks it is from 'Asia', others think it to mean 'The Old'; the former is based on his folk knowledge of the Aesir's migration from 'Asia' into Europe].

The Vanir were noted for their abilities as seers and magicians, and included shamanism among their practices. Their connection to the Soil and to feminine mysteries make them typically pre-Aryan and ROOTED.

* 8000 - 4000 - Jericho: cultivated wheat farming arrived in Southern Europe about 7000 BC and spread to Central Europe (with a signature "LBK'' pottery) about 5500 BC, developing into the Funnel-Beaker Culture (TRB) of Central European farmers about 4000 BC. LBK: dolicho-mesocranial, long face with receding malars, inclined forehead and high orbits: Proto-Nordic

The cranioskeletal series of the Linearbandkeramik People from Alsace, Western Germany, Central Germany, Czechoslovakia and Austria do not make up a homogeneous population. The western types are more gracile built than in the east, having higher as well longer crania, lower but broader faces and broader noses.

These series have been compared to the mesolithic series from Brittany,Portugal and a pooled centraleuropean series encompassing the LBK zone and the distances by multivariate analyses are low, except in individual measurements: the central europeans and brittany having broader and lower faces.

However, series of early Neolithics from the central balkans(Vinça), Bulgaria and Greece are closer to the LBK than the mesolithics, but it doesn't support a SE European descency of the LBK, because the measurements deviate in the same rate as with the mesolithics, notwithstanding the narrower faces.

I think that Vanir may be Coon's Danubians and very Proto-Nordic. Still according to Lundman, the Battle Axe people had lots of Pontic types. But a part of the LBK adopted wheelchairs without any racial mixture. But are we sure that LBK and early Battle Axe types were different in race.

As Lundman's dolichocephal Bruennid Pontics stand ahead of the corded people perhaps in the first flood these people came to the continental Europe.

Battle Axe, a broader faced Irano-Afgan types, are a later and are pushed from Asia as Asia gets drier.

In fact farming as Pontics are dominantly dolichocephal - those farmers may even be of Phalian Nordics with a Danubian Middle eastern minority (and seems very likely to be this way) so I may not agree with Renfrew, who proposed that IE was brought with farming.

I am very likely to think IE is indigeneous to continental Europe, as I cannot think other way but associate Uralic with Lapponoids but not Corded.**

The Aesir were war gods and creator gods - gods of the Sky; nomadic, yes, - and riding into battle on chariots [it was probably this superior technology that allowed the Aryans to conquer Europe]. War erupted between the Vanir and Aesir which ended in a truce where hostages were exchanged.

To Gunther this symbolizes the Aesir "absorbing" the Vanir, but without "reinterpreting" them in a thoroughly Aryan spirit. So to Gunther, the "non-Aryan" aspects of Norse mythology are due to this subracial combination between the Vanir and the Aesir [see Gunther, 'Religious Attitudes of the Indo-Europeans'].

The Vanir betrayed the truce and beheaded one of their Aesir hostages, sending the severed head back to the Aesir. This was a great mistake as the head [Mimir's head] became the fount of all wisdom and allowed the Aesir to eclipse the gods of the Vanir. However, it should be noted that one of the Vanir [Honir, a hostage to the Aesir, and the one who breathed life into the first men] will survive Ragnarok.

A development of this view brings in the 'war of the functions'. In Aryan society there are usually three strata, viewed in descending order of caste;

1. Warriors
2. Priests
3. Cultivators


** That is another reason i tend to think about the presence of UP phalians as farmers. pastoral nomadism is mostly associated with military democratic sociologic organization. but in winter times nomadics suffer alot but farmers may feed a regular and professional army. if these sociaological classes had not formed before the invasion of nomads the result would be a complete decay of the society. it is like the formation of feodalism in france when pastoral nomadic germanics entered france they collabrated with roman remnants to form and continue the roman slavery based farming. **


It is thought that the Aryan invaders comprised of 1. and 2. [another subracial combination in itself?]. When they pushed out of the Aryan homeland and fell upon those agrarian populations the caste of 3. was created. The Eddas have a tale called the Lay of Rig which presents these three functions in subracial terms.

So the war between the Vanir and the Aesir is the war between 3.[Vanir], and the allied forces of 1. and 2.[Aryans] The outcome is Aryan society and its High Culture, whether Indic, Hellenic, Roman or Germanic.

* So I may propose that war is between the Phalians and Lundman's Bruennids. So the classification of Aryan remnants in India will be of golden precious. As Irano-Afghan BA seems to be indigenous to North India and Afghanistan so if we see Pontic or Phalian remnants this will be the proof of this continental IE hypothesis.**


Mallory says of this: "Certain striking parallels concerning the Roman account of the Sabine War, the Norse myth concerning the war between the Aesir and the Vanir, and the Indic epic 'Mahabharata' have provided some support for a Proto-Indo-European 'War of the Functions' ..." "... Indeed, the 'Iliad' [Homer] itself has been examined in a similar light". [Mallory, 'in Search of the Indo-Europeans' page 139]

So the hypothesis is a safe one, and like all 'myth', it repays meditation on the intricacies of its meaning.

As a side note this hypothesis is introduced to me by F. and i would appreciate a comment.

Moody
Wednesday, March 26th, 2003, 05:36 PM
Directly relevant to this thread is a work describing the ancient Rus by Ibn Fadlan, which I have already mentioned.

I want to quote from Stephen Flower's [a.k.a. Edred Thorsson] translation of this as it is a counterpart to the excellent pictures given at the top of this thread by Savarog.

From Flower's Introduction;

"The so-called 'Viking Age' [ca. 750-1100 A.D.] roughly corresponds to the 'Golden Age of Arabic Literature' [ca. 750-1055 A.D.].
Islamic writers in the east referred to the Northern Scandinavians as 'ar-Rus', or 'ar-Rusiya'. Another term ... is Arabic 'warank', derived fron Old Norse 'Vaeringi', plural 'Vaeringjar', meaning 'men of the oath' [ON 'varar': oath, pledge, 'VOW'].

These are the Varangians who formed an important part of the Byzantine emperor's army - the famous Varangian Guard.

In the west [i.e., Islamic Spain etc.,], Northmen were also called 'al-Urman', which is derived from a Germanic word Latinised as 'Nordmanni': 'Northmen'.

Scandinavians were also referred to by Moorish writers as 'al-Majus' - a term which had previously been used for 'heathen' pre-Islamic Iranian 'fire-worshippers'. It is the same word which gives us the modern English 'magic' ".
[Flowres, ib.,]

Note how the Vikings are implicitly associated with the Aryans of ancient Iran.

"Ibn Fadlan was part of a mission sent by the Caliph of Baghdad to the king of the Bulgar Turks in the year 92 A.D.
Ibn Fadlan was a linguist and an Islamic lawyer; when he returned to Baghdad he wrote his report of the Viking Rus for the Caliph.

By this time, the centre of the Rus activity had shifted to Kiev.
The ethnically or linguistically Scandinavian component of the Rus state was always small as compared to the Slavic component. The Scandinavians were an elite minority".

The Rus traded slaves [i.e., white Slavs, particularly girls] and furs etc., with the peoples of the Middle East.
The following quotes are from Fadlan himself;

"If a son is born to one of the Rus, he throws a sword before the child and says: 'Yours will only be that which you can obtain by means of this sword' ".

"Never have I seen people of greater physical stature as the Rus; they are as tall as palm trees, blond and of ruddy complexion ...
Each man has an axe, a knife(dagger), and a sword with him. They are never seen without these weapons ...
Each of them has figures of trees and other things tatooed in a dark green colour from the rim of their fingernails up to their necks".

ROMA
Saturday, May 3rd, 2003, 12:02 AM
not all indo-european tribes were Aryan
the only ones were the ones migrating south from the kaukasus to persia (aryanam) iran ,and Hindustan (aryavarta)
allthough latini ,dorians,hithites etc came from the same tribe

Stríbog
Saturday, May 3rd, 2003, 08:59 AM
What do you mean by 'Aryan'? It's becoming a looser and looser term, so when you say not all Indo-Europeans were Aryan, I really have no idea what you mean.

Azdaja
Saturday, May 3rd, 2003, 01:04 PM
Technically he's right. Not all IEs are/were Aryans. Anthropologists began refering to all IEs as "Aryans" in the late 19th century, realizing as they did so that technically they were misusing the term.
It is from this intentional misuse that the nazis and others came across the term to refer to European peoples.

cosmocreator
Saturday, May 3rd, 2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Fionn mac Cumhaill
What do you mean by 'Aryan'? It's becoming a looser and looser term, so when you say not all Indo-Europeans were Aryan, I really have no idea what you mean.

Very few Europeans were Aryan. Anyone descended from Upper Paleolitic Cro Magnon is not Aryan.