PDA

View Full Version : Spanish Becoming Official?



Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 09:27 PM
What do you think about Spanish as another official language of America due to the Mexican Empire's posession of land in the old Wild West? Would you rather have it French as a large part of America was once French? Or would you have it be Dutch, as one tract of land was part of Holland?

My opinion is that it should remain English, much as England founded America by settlement, payment and conquest. Many of the Mediaeval Plantagenet and Norman monarchs of England spoke French as their first language, so we could allow French. Welsh was the tongue of the Bloody Mary and Virgin Queen's forebears, so Welsh could be spoken here too. I wouldn't mind Scottish because each King Charles was a Scotsman. Each King James too and Queen Mary although King William was Dutch and as such we could allow that tongue. I wouldn't mind German either because Georgia was founded by Germans. We could also allow Danish because some early kings were Danish. Looks like Ireland is left out, but they refused so many times to be a party to the Union and as such none was ever in the monarchy of England. There was the Belgian Queen Phillipa of Hainult, Catherine of Aragon and King Philip of Spain and maybe more I have forgotten that might mean we should allow the languages. I am leaning on settlement during colonial days by the Crown, though.

Sorry, America was named after Richard Amerike, a Welshman, not Amerigo Vespucci. One doesn't name a hemisphere of land after somebody's first name. The reality is, if any referral to operations of a corporate nature in connection to exploration and charter of expeditions to the New World had a name, it would surely be a surname. One doesn't do business by first name and rarely do businessmen discuss such things by first name either, especially in signing your name on a map. One might use a personal name for love letters, but be serious here. Sorry Spaniards and Italians...you didn't discover what became America, unless your name is John Cabot aka Giovanni Caboti in service to King Henry VII of England. Henry Tudor and Richard Amerike were both Welsh by descent. Amerike comes from Ap Meryk. Christopher Columbus discovered the Caribbean and Mesoamerica which later became New Spain. We shouldn't be having Columbus day as one for celebration in America. Leave that matter for Mexico. Danish was official in the Virgin Islands and Swedish official in Delaware, but England and America-England's colony-amassed both.

Looks like just about everybody else(besides Germans by the Hanover-Brunswickers) are immigrants and barely belong much as former slave descendents as well. Might as well send you on back to where you came. Then we can work on the technicalities of the second languages for legitimate people in America, such as who I spoke of. Are you aware that there have been several attempts to finalise the matter of speech? Ranging from Ebonics to British English to Spanglish. The matter must be resolved, as even States these days have their own mascots. They have their own tartans, trees, flags, constitutions, arms, animals. One must surely see this as an improvement upon the English Shire, as that institution has been long vacant.

It does look from here as if we can't easily break it down:

"Philip and Mary, by the Grace of God King and Queen of England, Spain, France, Jerusalem, both the Sicilies and Ireland, Defenders of the Faith, Archdukes of Austria, Dukes of Burgundy, Milan and Brabant, Counts of Hapsburg, Flanders and Tyrol."

Vestmannr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 10:44 PM
Not in my country.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 10:53 PM
Dude, why are you so defensive and bitter without a decent discussion on common affairs? If the Belgians can discuss this, so can we.

Vestmannr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 10:59 PM
Dude, why are you so defensive and bitter without a decent discussion on common affairs? If the Belgians can discuss this, so can we.

What's defensive about it? No bitterness either. The issue was just debated in public this past month in my own state: the government spent money for Spanish language driver's license tests. The public reacted rather negatively. So: not in my country, and most of my countrymen down here agree. Not in my country: let them speak Spanish in countries of Spanish civilization and origin.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 11:05 PM
Ok, I was just wondering what people think of the validity of Spanish vs French etc.

Vestmannr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 11:14 PM
Ok, I was just wondering what people think of the validity of Spanish vs French etc.

1 million Cajuns speak Acadian French in southern Louisiana. I'm fine with that. Just let them speak English if they come here, and don't make us spend tax dollars making 'Acadian/Cajun' forms, manuals, etc.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Alright, I believe that each ethnic community deserves to speak their own if they can finance it. From what other reason should they claim ethnic status?

QuietWind
Tuesday, September 28th, 2004, 04:54 PM
What? You mean Spanish isn't already the offical language of the US? Someone forgot to tell Texas that.

Vestmannr
Tuesday, September 28th, 2004, 05:41 PM
I'm guessing you mean because of the government translations of forms and documents in Spanish? ;) Yeah, its because of the Republican sponsored creation of Azatlan. I'm really pissed - the latest action of the Bush cabinet, a visit by Ridge to the border with Mexico - to expand the entrance into Texas from Mexico by two more lanes. (How about putting a couple of Army divisions down there on the border instead?)

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Wednesday, January 29th, 2020, 03:38 AM
I'm guessing you mean because of the government translations of forms and documents in Spanish? ;) Yeah, its because of the Republican sponsored creation of Azatlan. I'm really pissed - the latest action of the Bush cabinet, a visit by Ridge to the border with Mexico - to expand the entrance into Texas from Mexico by two more lanes. (How about putting a couple of Army divisions down there on the border instead?)

Agreed. In fact, none of the States should have the prerogative to establish any contrary form of society to the original American 13, but it seems this is likely the case for Louisiana/Texas and Hawaii, because of prior sovereignty. Texas was claimed by America as part of French Louisiana, but because France loaned it to Spain between 1763-1783, Mexico claimed it as part of their legacy. As for Hawaii, the Sandwich Islands are basically a cultural extension of New Zealand aka Aotearoa.

Winterland
Thursday, January 30th, 2020, 04:47 PM
Spanish has become widely spoken due to mass immigration of Hispanics over the last 40 years into 3 major States: FL, TX, And CA. Hispanics are also overtaking dying Midwestern towns and are populating them as the seniors die off from old age. They buy real estate on the cheap since most adult children moved away to big cities for better education and employment opportunities.
What I am seeing now is a huge influx of Asian populations, mostly from Middle East and Southeastern Asia, overtaking the Spanish language in some metro areas. Over half the Hispanics have little to no education, but it is an economic and cultural disaster as many do not conform to our Anglo laws and societal advancements. Even some Hispanics agree openly that they want to reclaim parts of Southwest through immigration and high birth rates. Signs and parks are slowly renamed due to white population losses and explains some of the hostilities that you hear about as we lose numbers and political strength.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, February 2nd, 2020, 06:41 AM
Although I would rather abolish these statehoods or rename them, I wonder why Florida, New Mexico and California are not used as buffer states (ahh, complete with interior border walls enclosing them also!) purposely targeting Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Mexicans for residency in such a favourable way that the rest of the Union may not offer anything for them? If any were to be Spanglish, I doubt Texas and Arizona would go for it, seeing how Anglo Texas seceded from Mexico and Anglo Arizona seceded from New Mexico to start with. If the people of those states want it that way, it's really a border state matter, seeing how Popular Sovereignty was developed very much for New Mexico and Utah at their very inceptions as American territories in the Compromise of 1850.

I don't see why this should be a federal matter, because Louisiana is officially Franglais and Hawaii is Anglonesian, probably making them magnets for Haitians and Filipinos. Still, where are the Russian Orthodox demanding Juneau to provide bilingual government? If any federal bilingualism or even trilingualism ought to be in play, this should be Dutch and Swedish options, due to their colonial basis before the 13 Colonies became States and assimilated most of the others. Still, a pan-Germanicist approach should be the American Dream and this, to stave off Latin and Asian interests. I wouldn't want Germans to feel left out, knowing how Pennsylvania Deutsch is still actively spoken, albeit in private, but perhaps a Germanic "Esperanto" would blur the lines between them and "Fancy Deutsch" they call "the English" for being the Saxon component of Anglo-Saxon among us.

Winterland
Monday, February 3rd, 2020, 04:27 AM
I think the German areas have weakened due to rapid decrease in German and Scandinavian immigration over the last hundred years. Yes, we have larger families in America, but no one can match the 60 million immigrant numbers within the last 40 years and their birthing numbers. Many Hispanics now sprawl across large numbers in Western, Midwestern and Southern States. Being outnumbered, we tend to lose much Anglo and Scot-Irish influences both in Texas and Midwestern regions. Germanic peoples also have over-assimilated. The US government and church groups would not allow a highly successful Germanic city to exist in isolation regardless of the location, and it would soon be filled with refugees and Hispanics for federal aid. (The Amish is a rare exception to these challenges and has religious protection.) I just like to see the wall be completely built on the Southern borders and start with some problem-solving. Then, mass deportations and restrictions in immigration can begin. However, corporations do not want us to solve these problems and demand cheap labor.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Monday, February 3rd, 2020, 01:26 PM
The 2010 census showed Mexicans gaining ground from Germans in Nevada, Negroes in Arkansas from Americans, Filipinos taking Hawaii from Japanese, but Germans also took West Virginia from Americans. If those of post-Independence origins from England, Ireland and Germany filled their ancestry as American, then it wouldn't be only Kentucky and Tennessee where this is now the majority. I swallowed my pride in 2010 and wrote American instead of English. It's not controversial for them in Canada to write Canadian instead of English, neither is it a problem in Australasia. If we all wrote American, aside from the non-Germanic groups like the present alternative minority-majority in states, Italians, Mexicans, Filipinos and Negroes would no longer be seen as the single most common ancestries of States where they now enjoy this presumption.

Theunissen
Tuesday, February 4th, 2020, 03:25 AM
Spanish has become widely spoken due to mass immigration of Hispanics over the last 40 years into 3 major States: FL, TX, And CA. Hispanics are also overtaking dying Midwestern towns and are populating them as the seniors die off from old age. They buy real estate on the cheap since most adult children moved away to big cities for better education and employment opportunities.
What I am seeing now is a huge influx of Asian populations, mostly from Middle East and Southeastern Asia, overtaking the Spanish language in some metro areas. Over half the Hispanics have little to no education, but it is an economic and cultural disaster as many do not conform to our Anglo laws and societal advancements. Even some Hispanics agree openly that they want to reclaim parts of Southwest through immigration and high birth rates. Signs and parks are slowly renamed due to white population losses and explains some of the hostilities that you hear about as we lose numbers and political strength.

A language widely spoken makes it a lingua franca, but not necessarily an "official language" you can file court records in or in which the government proclaims things. I heard Americans (mostly the leftist, cuckservative or libertarian open borders type) arguing that the US doesn't have an official language, because the constitution doesn't say so and there is no act of parliament to state that English is the official language. Hell, in what language is the Constitution written than, what language is used in congress, assemblies, courts, police station, bureaucracy etc. then? It was all in English. That makes English the official language of the US de facto, but also in a common law sense de jure. One would assume that people from a common law country, which doesn't require written law in court to prosecute people for murder, theft, rape, etc.m because common morality tells you that those things are crimes, to understand that the language used by organs of state is also the official language by way of common official usage. Language is an institution. Institutions exist by common practice as well as by formal official act. It should be noted that the later requires the support of the former by a strong degree. Meaning that if the common practice of people doesn't support the formal act and requirements, those will be powerless after a while.

The US had early immigration from English speaking countries (Britain and Ireland), but also from non-English speaking ones like Germany, Sweden, France, Italy, Poland, Russia etc. It seems the later adopted English as there lingua franca after a generation or so without any problems. Even the Negroes and Beringians did do so. It seems the problem came especially with immigration of people from Latin America, who refused to make English their language of common usage but stuck to Spanish. My guess is that Mid-Easterner, East Asians and perhaps Negroids from Africa and the Caribbean may start acting in a similar manner, if they don't already do so. Shows you that even, if you claim to be an "idea nation", which is often claimed about the the US, but still open to dispute, you still have to be selective in terms of immigration. Otherwise the common practice won't support your formal institutions and the very ideas you claim to make up your "idea nation". Rather keep it ethno-based it seems.

Winterland
Tuesday, February 4th, 2020, 07:23 PM
Some earlier problems arose when Germanic speaking community (Germany/Prussia; Scandinavia) greatly outnumbered the English settlements in the US by the mid 1800's. Anglo groups did not always welcome the growing Germanization of the US in the Midwest regions. Today with multi-culturalism, there is little pressure to assimilate and undergo a transformation among nonwhites. They learn English mainly for economic interests and progressive upward movement in society, not for cultural reasons. We learnt English, even on farms, to assimilate successfully for mostly social, education, business and legal reasons. You had social pressure to "prove" your less German to fit into the "American Identity," which continues today with the media's radical rants and propaganda.
You clearly stated solid reasons why English is really the "official language of the US de facto." I agree. Well, German groups and speakers went through this uncomfortable process to be more "Anglicized" or "British" influenced if we agree or disagree with their politics or historic institutions. Other European groups did too, but the Germans had more coercion due to the two unpopular World Wars. Now, I see us as a silent majority with less influence on the system. I think it's a mess here as we are in process of "flux" and "breakdown" among leaders. No one supposed to lead or have dominance over other groups, by theory.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, February 6th, 2020, 01:57 PM
A language widely spoken makes it a lingua franca, but not necessarily an "official language" you can file court records in or in which the government proclaims things. I heard Americans (mostly the leftist, cuckservative or libertarian open borders type) arguing that the US doesn't have an official language, because the constitution doesn't say so and there is no act of parliament to state that English is the official language. Hell, in what language is the Constitution written than, what language is used in congress, assemblies, courts, police station, bureaucracy etc. then? It was all in English. That makes English the official language of the US de facto, but also in a common law sense de jure. One would assume that people from a common law country, which doesn't require written law in court to prosecute people for murder, theft, rape, etc.m because common morality tells you that those things are crimes, to understand that the language used by organs of state is also the official language by way of common official usage. Language is an institution. Institutions exist by common practice as well as by formal official act. It should be noted that the later requires the support of the former by a strong degree. Meaning that if the common practice of people doesn't support the formal act and requirements, those will be powerless after a while.

The US had early immigration from English speaking countries (Britain and Ireland), but also from non-English speaking ones like Germany, Sweden, France, Italy, Poland, Russia etc. It seems the later adopted English as there lingua franca after a generation or so without any problems. Even the Negroes and Beringians did do so. It seems the problem came especially with immigration of people from Latin America, who refused to make English their language of common usage but stuck to Spanish. My guess is that Mid-Easterner, East Asians and perhaps Negroids from Africa and the Caribbean may start acting in a similar manner, if they don't already do so. Shows you that even, if you claim to be an "idea nation", which is often claimed about the the US, but still open to dispute, you still have to be selective in terms of immigration. Otherwise the common practice won't support your formal institutions and the very ideas you claim to make up your "idea nation". Rather keep it ethno-based it seems.

Official document forms are indeed provided by California in Spanish.

As much as I like the way they live and their perfect compatibility with my folk, the Germans and Amish who would rather have separate schools and avoid English (if bilingual, that would have been better), just paved the way for the Mafia Italians and illegal alien Hispanics, who are responsible for popularising Latin and Spanish in a parallel society within my country. The feeling is one when someone give you the middle finger or two, as if your hospitality is worthless. Why should we feel bad that they lack respect for us, as if it's our fault?


Some earlier problems arose when Germanic speaking community (Germany/Prussia; Scandinavia) greatly outnumbered the English settlements in the US by the mid 1800's. Anglo groups did not always welcome the growing Germanization of the US in the Midwest regions. Today with multi-culturalism, there is little pressure to assimilate and undergo a transformation among nonwhites. They learn English mainly for economic interests and progressive upward movement in society, not for cultural reasons. We learnt English, even on farms, to assimilate successfully for mostly social, education, business and legal reasons. You had social pressure to "prove" your less German to fit into the "American Identity," which continues today with the media's radical rants and propaganda.
You clearly stated solid reasons why English is really the "official language of the US de facto." I agree. Well, German groups and speakers went through this uncomfortable process to be more "Anglicized" or "British" influenced if we agree or disagree with their politics or historic institutions. Other European groups did too, but the Germans had more coercion due to the two unpopular World Wars. Now, I see us as a silent majority with less influence on the system. I think it's a mess here as we are in process of "flux" and "breakdown" among leaders. No one supposed to lead or have dominance over other groups, by theory.

On one hand, I would rather have German spoken everywhere and not any Italian Latin Mass or Spanish, but why didn't Irish ever speak Gaelic, if we were supposed to have a free-for-all? Compare and contrast the Conquest of New France and making of Canada, from the Conquest of New Netherland and making of New England. In the Canadian example, English and French are two different types of tongues and they were segregated, like Flanders and Wallonia in Belgium. In the Yankee example, English and Dutch are two similar types of tongues and they were integrated, like Frisian and Dutch in the Netherlands. Indeed, the Conquest of New Sweden resulted in Dutch and Swedish integrating and its precedent was merely followed by the English and Dutch arrangement.

Since only we English had legal title to the Atlantic Seaboard, King Charles II wouldn't recognise the unlawful squatter occupation by the Dutch or Swedish, other than to regrant family properties, etc and provide legitimate government. Unfortunately, King George III recognised the French title to Québec, even though his father King George II wisely expelled the French from Acadia and sent them to Louisiana where they are now the Cajuns, a separate group from the Creoles. Personally, I wish that French would be abolished so all of Anglophone North America can reunite. I don't see why Dutch as a Frankish tongue, ought not be restored, but in place of French in the former French territories and bring some dignity to the name of New Brunswick, with Louisiana renamed to Ludwigland, with the middle of Dutch culture in Québec.

Sigurdsson
Thursday, February 6th, 2020, 04:29 PM
Personally, I wish that French would be abolished so all of Anglophone North America can reunite.

There is far more nationalism between Anglo-Canadians and French-Canadians than there is between English-speaking North Americans. Since the time of the Loyalist migrations and the War of 1812, to the modern day with cultural push and soft power, English-Canadians have time and again shown their disdain for American influence. There won’t be a reunification of Anglophone North America anytime soon.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, February 6th, 2020, 04:45 PM
There is far more nationalism between Anglo-Canadians and French-Canadians than there is between English-speaking North Americans. Since the time of the Loyalist migrations and the War of 1812, to the modern day with cultural push and soft power, English-Canadians have time and again shown their disdain for American influence. There won’t be a reunification of Anglophone North America anytime soon.

It started with the artificial preservation of New France as a replacement for English victory in France during the Hundred Years' War, although Canada was won by New Englanders. George III switched the Crown of France for the Crown of Canada and it's sad he'd rather have Québec at the cost of Boston. It's ironic that Canada kept the Hanoverian King, but America got most of his Brunswicker compatriots, so that's why the Roman-German Eagle was chosen for the coat of arms, while Canada kept the rest and the Dutch lion isn't on either country's emblems. Since the Maple Leaf replaced the Red Ensign, America now has the better flag. If we join the Canadian arms and American flag, that would be great. The Canadian flag and American arms are not that great.

Sigurdsson
Friday, February 7th, 2020, 08:20 PM
It started with the artificial preservation of New France as a replacement for English victory in France during the Hundred Years' War, although Canada was won by New Englanders. George III switched the Crown of France for the Crown of Canada and it's sad he'd rather have Québec at the cost of Boston. It's ironic that Canada kept the Hanoverian King, but America got most of his Brunswicker compatriots, so that's why the Roman-German Eagle was chosen for the coat of arms, while Canada kept the rest and the Dutch lion isn't on either country's emblems. Since the Maple Leaf replaced the Red Ensign, America now has the better flag. If we join the Canadian arms and American flag, that would be great. The Canadian flag and American arms are not that great.


It wouldn’t be a joining of anything, it would be an American takeover. As I said before, Anglo and French Canadians have a much stronger brotherhood than Anglo Canadians and Anglo Americans, and that’s been shown through history. Canadians would rather have increased diplomatic, trade and immigration relations with the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand, than America.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Friday, February 7th, 2020, 08:43 PM
It wouldn’t be a joining of anything, it would be an American takeover. As I said before, Anglo and French Canadians have a much stronger brotherhood than Anglo Canadians and Anglo Americans, and that’s been shown through history. Canadians would rather have increased diplomatic, trade and immigration relations with the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand, than America.

The problem is actually more London and Washington being close, while Ottawa begs for attention and relevance from Brussels. It's the exact opposite of what you think.

Theunissen
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 12:31 AM
Official document forms are indeed provided by California in Spanish.

As much as I like the way they live and their perfect compatibility with my folk, the Germans and Amish who would rather have separate schools and avoid English (if bilingual, that would have been better), just paved the way for the Mafia Italians and illegal alien Hispanics, who are responsible for popularising Latin and Spanish in a parallel society within my country. The feeling is one when someone give you the middle finger or two, as if your hospitality is worthless. Why should we feel bad that they lack respect for us, as if it's our fault?
.....
Just because a government prints and hands out forms in foreign languages doesn't make them official.

The Germans/Italians may have spoken their languages for a time in the US, but today their descendents almost almost all speak English. I don't see that happening with Hispanics anytime soon. Amish are a minority anyway, while due to birth-rates their numbers are growing.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 01:18 AM
Just because a government prints and hands out forms in foreign languages doesn't make them official.

The Germans/Italians may have spoken their languages for a time in the US, but today their descendents almost almost all speak English. I don't see that happening with Hispanics anytime soon. Amish are a minority anyway, while due to birth-rates their numbers are growing.

I would prefer Pennsylvania Dutch outbreeding any and all Hispanics. :)

Sigurdsson
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 03:06 AM
The problem is actually more London and Washington being close, while Ottawa begs for attention and relevance from Brussels. It's the exact opposite of what you think.

And you think the capital cities of the corrupt governments matter more than the average man and woman’s opinion? kek

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 04:46 AM
And you think the capital cities of the corrupt governments matter more than the average man and woman’s opinion? kek

It's obvious that Canada's French population is why the Dominion is in La Francophonie and pursues Eurocentric pro-Remain politics, being an observer or prospective member of the EU. This is a big difference from Brexit and Trump realignment, because Canada's all about multikult multilateralism and "Western Allies" rather than Anglocentric agendas. Only Australia is willing to go to bat for UK & US interests. New Zealand is also dubious because of all the New Age flower children going Maori primitive. Really, Canada and New Zealand are as conflicted by cohabitational civic nationalism in the same way that Ireland lost interest in 1949.

Only Britain, America and Australia are Anglo-monocultures, without Celts, Romans or Polynesians to complicate a solid alliance. So, if you pride yourself on Ottawa being more worried about balancing Toronto and Québec, that's why the Great White North refuses to engage fully in common foreign policies with the rest of us. America may be like the prodigal son where Canada's concerned, but as you admit, that's your country's bias and hill to die on. So, it's unrealistic to simply hope for the White Dominions to come back together as one family, no matter how much we both would prefer this, minus South Africa IMO--I'd rather have India.

leRoux
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 02:19 PM
The United States only managed to be an Anglo-Saxon power up until recently in spite of itself. Since the very beginning of the revolution the elites began trading the nation's organic culture for neo-classical ideas and built a country founded on economic ideals with no official appreciation for the founding stock. Thomas Jefferson may have been an "Anglo-Saxonist" at some point, but the same man believed Indians could be integrated into the naive liberal ideals of the American Republic. Justified or not, the American Revolution was one of the worst things to happen to Anglo-Saxon people in what is now the United States.

Regardless of modern politics, if you go to England and visit the cathedrals and other monuments, you will find dedications to the men and women of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa for their sacrifices in all wars alongside their brethren. Or - as one memorial in St Paul's Cathedral puts it - our sons of Britain from across the seas. Each gate entering the Victoria Memorial (main entrance to Buckingham palace) is named after Australia, Canada and South Africa. You will find memorials to James Wolfe and Arthur Phillip. These bonds are still alive and deeply important. This is not the case with the United States as it has been led independently from the relationship and generally the US government has undermined the founding stock in many major ways. The biggest offense between the current situation and the founding being the importation of German, Irish and "etc" settlers to function as mercenaries against Anglo-Saxon Southerners in the Civil War. The Confederacy with all of its flaws was a repudiation of this and the last chance Anglo-Saxons in the US had to establish a government more appreciative of the ethnos.

I can't personally speak much to the situation with the Quebecois in Canada, but without a doubt, English/Anglo-Australians/Canadians/South-Africans/NZers are more at home with each than they are with Anglo-Americans due to the official separation and cultural drift. The US is more culturally stripped bare outside of the South and areas of the Midwest, more consumed by altruistic and economic ideals.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 04:19 PM
The United States only managed to be an Anglo-Saxon power up until recently in spite of itself. Since the very beginning of the revolution the elites began trading the nation's organic culture for neo-classical ideas and built a country founded on economic ideals with no official appreciation for the founding stock. Thomas Jefferson may have been an "Anglo-Saxonist" at some point, but the same man believed Indians could be integrated into the naive liberal ideals of the American Republic. Justified or not, the American Revolution was one of the worst things to happen to Anglo-Saxon people in what is now the United States.

Regardless of modern politics, if you go to England and visit the cathedrals and other monuments, you will find dedications to the men and women of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa for their sacrifices in all wars alongside their brethren. Or - as one memorial in St Paul's Cathedral puts it - our sons of Britain from across the seas. Each gate entering the Victoria Memorial (main entrance to Buckingham palace) is named after Australia, Canada and South Africa. You will find memorials to James Wolfe and Arthur Phillip. These bonds are still alive and deeply important. This is not the case with the United States as it has been led independently from the relationship and generally the US government has undermined the founding stock in many major ways. The biggest offense between the current situation and the founding being the importation of German, Irish and "etc" settlers to function as mercenaries against Anglo-Saxon Southerners in the Civil War. The Confederacy with all of its flaws was a repudiation of this and the last chance Anglo-Saxons in the US had to establish a government more appreciative of the ethnos.

I can't personally speak much to the situation with the Quebecois in Canada, but without a doubt, English/Anglo-Australians/Canadians/South-Africans/NZers are more at home with each than they are with Anglo-Americans due to the official separation and cultural drift. The US is more culturally stripped bare outside of the South and areas of the Midwest, more consumed by altruistic and economic ideals.America IS the Virginia Company in the same way that India IS the East India Company. Anything you want to compare to the French Revolution is actually from the English Commonwealth and Cromwellian Protectorate, because this Government is their legacy, whereas the Restoration is Canada's as much as Jacobitism is Ireland's. Jefferson was a man of contradictions who actually started Indian Removal by purchasing Louisiana and designating what became Oklahoma as Indian Territory, before Jackson got around to making it happen. Jefferson was also a Francophile who made Mulatto bastards, but he's never been the "be all, end all" Founding Father, because we're not all Democrats. Washington was a Loyalist and so was Adams and this is the origin of Federalism. Whiggery was to preserve or restore the Orangist-Hanoverian establishment and this was the basis of the future Anglo-American special relationship, but from the operating system of a Republic until such time as a proper respectful reunion could be had, not Tory submissionism.

Wolfe was an American hero until the Québec Act and believe it or not, Arnold is a third cousin of mine who was a hero enough one of my some-odd great-grandfathers was named after him too. What you describe is the past arrangement when Britain was forced to rely on subpar Imperial Dominions rather than those original ones of Virginia and New England. The Confederacy was nothing but South Africa or Rhodesia on these shores and those lands capitalised on a master-servant symbiosis between White and Black, an unnatural situation because we shouldn't have to cohabit with a foreign race. They all belong in Liberia or Sierra Leone. As for Germans and Irish, they're just that much more Angles and Scots by assimilation and the realms of King George III himself, so who's confused here?

So, you think Romance and Polynesian peoples are a greater source of unity than an Anglocentric Anglosphere devoid of them? In America, those only exist as Louisiana and Hawaii, but hardly on any pedestal as you're placing Canada and New Zealand. Ireland outside the Union and those other two taking steps back from the forefront actually makes it easier for Britain, America and Australia to be Anglo-Saxonist. You're stuck in 1876, but see how Edward VIII chose an American woman over all that, between Lloyd-George and Wilson under George V, Churchill and Roosevelt under George VI.

Even the Sovereign knew that it's not India but Virginia where our future belongs together, so witness also Americans siding with Britain under the Windsors of Saxony. There was only one generation of conflict and that was during the reign of King George III, purely because of the Toryist Québec Act pushed by the Marquess of Bute and betrayal of Massachusetts Bay. I guarantee that America would still be the jewel in the Crown and an equal realm of the Queen today had this never happened, but the Hanoverian ministry thought in the short-term and tried to capitalise on Papal recognition for the throne that Highlanders had reluctantly accepted.

Sigurdsson
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 04:49 PM
It's obvious that Canada's French population is why the Dominion is in La Francophonie and pursues Eurocentric pro-Remain politics, being an observer or prospective member of the EU. This is a big difference from Brexit and Trump realignment, because Canada's all about multikult multilateralism and "Western Allies" rather than Anglocentric agendas. Only Australia is willing to go to bat for UK & US interests. New Zealand is also dubious because of all the New Age flower children going Maori primitive. Really, Canada and New Zealand are as conflicted by cohabitational civic nationalism in the same way that Ireland lost interest in 1949.

Only Britain, America and Australia are Anglo-monocultures, without Celts, Romans or Polynesians to complicate a solid alliance. So, if you pride yourself on Ottawa being more worried about balancing Toronto and Québec, that's why the Great White North refuses to engage fully in common foreign policies with the rest of us. America may be like the prodigal son where Canada's concerned, but as you admit, that's your country's bias and hill to die on. So, it's unrealistic to simply hope for the White Dominions to come back together as one family, no matter how much we both would prefer this, minus South Africa IMO--I'd rather have India.


If you’ve ever met French-Canadians or looked at polls or stats, you’d realize that some of the most conservative Canadians are in Quebec. Canada is extremely Eurocentric, because that’s where we’ve been treated as equals for a longer time, and even to this day. Relations with Britain, the Netherlands, France and Germany are far better these days than ours with America. Brexit, indeed, opens new doors for better trade, immigration, and relations. Trump’s presidency has been good for America and Americans, but sorely not good for Canadians and their perception of America, simply look at opinion polls to see how Americans view Canadians favourably, but Canadians view American unfavourabley. You can also see greater ties being made in regards to the CANZUK idea, and the adoption of that by many parties in the UK, Canada and Australia.

You seem to gloss Scotland in Britain and the immense impact Scottish and Irish immigrants had on America and Australia, Americans are even extremely unlikely to put down English as their ethnicity, because of their broken ties to Britain. I don’t think I once said I worried about how Ottawa thinks, but rather the opinions of the average man and woman, and this can be seen through polls in regards to things like the British monarchy, CANZUK, and opinions to Brexit and how we should go forward. Taking Ottawa and our current government as opinion of the entire country of Canada and all it’s peoples is foolish.

CANZUK shows that a number of people in the Commonwealth would like to have increased immigration, diplomatic relations and trade. But, perhaps I was a bit rash in my original post. I would be glad to see a new union of the Anglosphere, with America included. Though, I wouldn’t want to see Quebec excluded, as they’ve been an integral part of Canada since the start of our country, like Germans for America. And I fear that Canada’s culture would be erased and that a union of Anglophone North America would simply be a takeover of Canada.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 06:00 PM
If you’ve ever met French-Canadians or looked at polls or stats, you’d realize that some of the most conservative Canadians are in Quebec. Canada is extremely Eurocentric, because that’s where we’ve been treated as equals for a longer time, and even to this day. Relations with Britain, the Netherlands, France and Germany are far better these days than ours with America. Brexit, indeed, opens new doors for better trade, immigration, and relations. Trump’s presidency has been good for America and Americans, but sorely not good for Canadians and their perception of America, simply look at opinion polls to see how Americans view Canadians favourably, but Canadians view American unfavourabley. You can also see greater ties being made in regards to the CANZUK idea, and the adoption of that by many parties in the UK, Canada and Australia.

You seem to gloss Scotland in Britain and the immense impact Scottish and Irish immigrants had on America and Australia, Americans are even extremely unlikely to put down English as their ethnicity, because of their broken ties to Britain. I don’t think I once said I worried about how Ottawa thinks, but rather the opinions of the average man and woman, and this can be seen through polls in regards to things like the British monarchy, CANZUK, and opinions to Brexit and how we should go forward. Taking Ottawa and our current government as opinion of the entire country of Canada and all it’s peoples is foolish.

CANZUK shows that a number of people in the Commonwealth would like to have increased immigration, diplomatic relations and trade. But, perhaps I was a bit rash in my original post. I would be glad to see a new union of the Anglosphere, with America included. Though, I wouldn’t want to see Quebec excluded, as they’ve been an integral part of Canada since the start of our country, like Germans for America. And I fear that Canada’s culture would be erased and that a union of Anglophone North America would simply be a takeover of Canada.

Canada now plays the role Britain did between Europe and America, precisely because of Québec, because Québec is a European province. Who do you think wants relations with Asia among Antipodeans, but Maori and so, New Zealand suffers by their secession from New South Wales in the same way Canada is sabotaged. It's not a wholly Imperial preference at all, but regionalism instead. So, Canada and New Zealand can join Europe and Asia if they want, but America and Australia prefer Britain 100%. Australia is as much an offshoot of America as America is of Britain, so if Ireland, Canada and New Zealand are conflicted by other priorities, being culturally schizophrenic, the backbone of Anglosphere will go on. FYI, I'm from a British-Irish-American-Canadian family and wish nothing but the best for all of us. I still don't care to let state-sponsored multikult for Italo-Celtic and Austronesian societies to override our Germanic Englishness.

leRoux
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 06:48 PM
:confused I'm seeing a lot words, but not really reading anything. Your excessive verbosity and strange references to relations attempts to obfuscate the fact there's no substance.


America IS the Virginia Company in the same way that India IS the East India Company. Anything you want to compare to the French Revolution is actually from the English Commonwealth and Cromwellian Protectorate, because this Government is their legacy, whereas the Restoration is Canada's as much as Jacobitism is Ireland's. Jefferson was a man of contradictions who actually started Indian Removal by purchasing Louisiana and designating what became Oklahoma as Indian Territory, before Jackson got around to making it happen. Jefferson was also a Francophile who made Mulatto bastards, but he's never been the "be all, end all" Founding Father, because we're not all Democrats. Washington was a Loyalist and so was Adams and this is the origin of Federalism. Whiggery was to preserve or restore the Orangist-Hanoverian establishment and this was the basis of the future Anglo-American special relationship, but from the operating system of a Republic until such time as a proper respectful reunion could be had, not Tory submissionism.

Wolfe was an American hero until the Québec Act and believe it or not, Arnold is a third cousin of mine who was a hero enough one of my some-odd great-grandfathers was named after him too. What you describe is the past arrangement when Britain was forced to rely on subpar Imperial Dominions rather than those original ones of Virginia and New England. The Confederacy was nothing but South Africa or Rhodesia on these shores and those lands capitalised on a master-servant symbiosis between White and Black, an unnatural situation because we shouldn't have to cohabit with a foreign race. They all belong in Liberia or Sierra Leone. As for Germans and Irish, they're just that much more Angles and Scots by assimilation and the realms of King George III himself, so who's confused here?

Here are some basic things: when the revolution began, references to English cultural traditions were discouraged and instead appeals to Republican Roman and Hellenic ideals were substituted. In the Continental Army, they began performing plays from the Greco-Roman repertoire with English traditionals discouraged. This is also exemplified in the revolution-era Neo-classical architecture, at the expense of the promotion of Georgian forms. These basic things have an impact. Never forget that George Washington himself sponsored colonial-era H1-B workers.

Dear Sir,
I am informed that a Ship with Palatines is gone up to Baltimore, among whom are a number of Tradesmen. I am a good deal in want of a House Joiner & Bricklayer, (who really understand their profession) & you would do me a favor by purchasing one of each, for me. I would not confine you to Palatines. If they are good workmen, they may be of Assia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mahometans, Jews, or Christian of any Sect—or they may be Athiests—I woud however prefer middle aged, to young men. and those who have good countenances & good characters on ship board, to others who have neither of these to recommend them—altho, after all, the proof of the pudding must be in the eating.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/04-01-02-0174


So, you think Romance and Polynesian peoples are a greater source of unity than an Anglocentric Anglosphere devoid of them? In America, those only exist as Louisiana and Hawaii, but hardly on any pedestal as you're placing Canada and New Zealand. Ireland outside the Union and those other two taking steps back from the forefront actually makes it easier for Britain, America and Australia to be Anglo-Saxonist. You're stuck in 1876, but see how Edward VIII chose an American woman over all that, between Lloyd-George and Wilson under George V, Churchill and Roosevelt under George VI.

I never said this. But I'm somehow stuck in 1876, and you're the one avoiding the elephant in the room that America is percentage-wise 20-30% less White as well as less Anglo than the other countries mentioned bar South Africa?


Even the Sovereign knew that it's not India but Virginia where our future belongs together, so witness also Americans siding with Britain under the Windsors of Saxony. There was only one generation of conflict and that was during the reign of King George III, purely because of the Toryist Québec Act pushed by the Marquess of Bute and betrayal of Massachusetts Bay. I guarantee that America would still be the jewel in the Crown and an equal realm of the Queen today had this never happened, but the Hanoverian ministry thought in the short-term and tried to capitalise on Papal recognition for the throne that Highlanders had reluctantly accepted.

No one here is arguing India is the centre of the Anglosphere, lol. There were legitimate reasons for rebellion but your rebellion was high-jacked by classical liberal autists with no sense of identity, whose system eventually ate away these ethnic foundations that were always taken for granted.


I would be glad to see a new union of the Anglosphere, with America included. Though, I wouldn’t want to see Quebec excluded, as they’ve been an integral part of Canada since the start of our country, like Germans for America. And I fear that Canada’s culture would be erased and that a union of Anglophone North America would simply be a takeover of Canada.

I'm generally in favour of this too. Just being someone who grew up drinking tea, with fish and chips, etc etc, who now lives in the United States - I recognise that culturally the US has very little to offer nowadays, and Anglo-Americans would be better off further removing themselves from the system and reclaiming their legacy, which is far more alive in the WASP regions of the Commonwealth albeit taken for granted and under attack also.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Saturday, February 8th, 2020, 09:02 PM
:confused I'm seeing a lot words, but not really reading anything. Your excessive verbosity and strange references to relations attempts to obfuscate the fact there's no substance.



Here are some basic things: when the revolution began, references to English cultural traditions were discouraged and instead appeals to Republican Roman and Hellenic ideals were substituted. In the Continental Army, they began performing plays from the Greco-Roman repertoire with English traditionals discouraged. This is also exemplified in the revolution-era Neo-classical architecture, at the expense of the promotion of Georgian forms. These basic things have an impact. Never forget that George Washington himself sponsored colonial-era H1-B workers.

Dear Sir,
I am informed that a Ship with Palatines is gone up to Baltimore, among whom are a number of Tradesmen. I am a good deal in want of a House Joiner & Bricklayer, (who really understand their profession) & you would do me a favor by purchasing one of each, for me. I would not confine you to Palatines. If they are good workmen, they may be of Assia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mahometans, Jews, or Christian of any Sect—or they may be Athiests—I woud however prefer middle aged, to young men. and those who have good countenances & good characters on ship board, to others who have neither of these to recommend them—altho, after all, the proof of the pudding must be in the eating.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/04-01-02-0174



I never said this. But I'm somehow stuck in 1876, and you're the one avoiding the elephant in the room that America is percentage-wise 20-30% less White as well as less Anglo than the other countries mentioned bar South Africa?



No one here is arguing India is the centre of the Anglosphere, lol. There were legitimate reasons for rebellion but your rebellion was high-jacked by classical liberal autists with no sense of identity, whose system eventually ate away these ethnic foundations that were always taken for granted.



I'm generally in favour of this too. Just being someone who grew up drinking tea, with fish and chips, etc etc, who now lives in the United States - I recognise that culturally the US has very little to offer nowadays, and Anglo-Americans would be better off further removing themselves from the system and reclaiming their legacy, which is far more alive in the WASP regions of the Commonwealth albeit taken for granted and under attack also. It's more the case of grey, not black and white like you put the issues. Simply put, however, America is heir to the Cromwellian legacy and the succeeding "Commonwealth" is based off of the Stuart one. Just because we don't have the same institutional framework, doesn't make us less than English. Oh no, we don't have a Parliamentary system, whatever shall we do without it or the Crown? America spawned a larger English population than Britain did between all the Dominions. Somehow, we are still illegitimate in the eyes of those whose sense of Establishment is dated to 1066 and not a Government of the People, by the People and for the People. America isn't an aristocratic, classist society, so we're not British, but it doesn't mean we're not English.

Neoclassicisms began in the Stuart court and were at their apex in the Hanoverian court; this Gothic Romanticism you're referring to arose from the Saxons once Prince Albert came over from Coburg und Gotha. You really want to pretend that White Man's Burden and an Imperial Family didn't exist, wasn't cultivated by London, to make Brown Englishmen and Sadiq Khan Lord Mayor? Made in Britain, not in America...

Double standard fantasies and cognitive dissonance are purely your own, but keep hold of your bubble and don't let anyone tell you that it's not real.

Your intellectualisation and complication of simple things just splits hairs between problems shared equally by London and Washington.

I grew up with tea and fish and chips. My grandfather's aunt and all the girls used to run a mill village chippy. If anything, let Britain and America come down the middle on everything and not worry about Ottawa or Wellington going the way of Dublin, while you still wish it was the other way around.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Monday, February 10th, 2020, 03:39 AM
How unfortunate that I don't name-drop Canberra and Australia often enough, a failing of mine because I have no kin who made it that far and were strong enough to still remember home, despite worse feelings about the Botany Bay experience than what went down in British America. My apologies, leRoux.