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Nordhammer
Thursday, November 20th, 2003, 01:34 AM
http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/nameword/map1.gif

A German-American Chronology (http://www.cloudnet.com/%7Eedrbsass/GermAmChron.htm)

Adapted from: The German Americans: An Ethnic Experience
by LaVern J. Rippley and Eberhard Reichmann

1608 Some Germans accompany Captain John Smith, founder of Jamestown, VA

1618 The Thirty Years' War devastates Germany; the country disintegrates into numerous independent principalities

1626 The Rhinelander Peter Minuit (Minnewit) -- director of the Dutch colony-purchases Manhattan from the Indians and builds Ft. New Amsterdam

1633 First publication in Germany encouraging emigration to America

1661 Georg Hack from Cologne settles in Maryland

1670 Hudson Bay Co. founded with Prince Ruprecht as governor

1676 Nikolaus de Meyer from Hamburg becomes Mayor of New York

1683 Early German settlers come to the American colonies for religious reasons, including the Mennonites and Quakers who arrive on the "Concord" and found Germantown, PA with Francis Daniel Pastorius as their leader / Vienna defended against Turkish invasion

1688 Germantown's Pastorius pens first protest against slavery

1691 British execute Frankfurt-born Jacob Leisler, first elected governor of New York and champion of American independence

1709 First mass emigration from the Palatinate (Pfalz)

1710 650 Palatines and Swiss settle at New Bern, NC

1720 Augsburg and Marienthal founded in Louisiana

1728 Seventh-Day Adventists under Conrad Beissel build Ephrata Cloisters in Pennsylvania

1732 The "Philadelphische Zeitung" (newspaper) appears

1733 Schwenkfelders from Silesia arrive in Pennsylvania

1734 Salzburg Protestants come to Georgia

1735 Printer John Peter Zenger's acquittal -- landmark victory for freedom of the press / Moravians (Herrnhuters) under Count Zinzendorf settle in Georgia

1736 Moravians found Bethlehem,Nazareth, and Lititz, PA

1741 President Eisenhower's ancestor-Hans N. Eisenhauer-arrives

1743 First Bible printed in America by Christopher Saur-in German

1768 Barbara Heck, German-lrish, founds first Methodist church in New York

1772 Pennsylvania Germans ("Dutchmen") form their own militias / Moravians found Schoenbrunn mission in Ohio

1776 The Great American Revolution / Braunschweiger and Hessian troops land in Quebec (and introduce the decorated Christmas tree to North America); more than 10,000 remained in America

1777 Gen. von Steuben trains American army / Molly Pitcher (Maria Ludwig) fights in several battles / Christopher Ludwig is the army's director of baking / Major F. von Heer commands Gen. Washington's German body-guards / Gen. Nicholas Herkimer and the Germans of the Mohawk Valley defeat the British at Oriskan

1779 Gen. von Steuben writes first handbook for U.S. Army

1784 Johann Jacob Astor arrives and becomes richest American / German Society for the Protection of Immigrants founded in New York

1786 Prussia's Frederick the Great recognizes the independent USA

1804 The Harmonists under George Rapp arrive in Pennsylvania. Their Indiana settlement, Neu Harmonie (1814- 824), becomes the economic "Wonder of the West"

1806 Defeated by Napoleon, The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation ceases to exist 1807 Martin Baum, riverboat pioneer on the Ohio and Mississippi, becomes mayor of Cincinnati

1815 Boston's Germans found Handel and Haydn Society / Napoleon defeated by British and Prussian forces

1817 Joseph Baumeler and his German separatists found the Zoar commune in Ohio

1820 Joseph Heister becomes Governor of Pennsylvania

1825 German introduced at Harvard University / Harmonists build their third town, Old Economy, now part of Ambridge, PA

1827 Francis Lieber from Berlin begins editing the Encyclopedia Americana in Boston

1829 Gomried Duden's published travel report encourages thousands of Germans to come to America, especially Missouri

1835 The Giessen-Society aims at a "New German Fatherland" in America; this and similar attempts failed / Philadelphia Maennerchor founded

1837 Pennsylvania publishes laws and governors' messages in English and German

1840 German Lutherans found Concordia College, Ft. Wayne, IN / First "Volksfest" celebrated in Richmond, VA

1842 William Bouck (Bauk) becomes Governor of New York

1843 German Inspirationists settle near Buffalo and later move to Amana, IA

1844 German aristocrats found the "Mainzer Adelsverein"for settlement in Texas. They build New Braunfels and Fredericksburg

1847 Lutheran Missouri Synod organized, C.F.W. Walther, president

1848 The German Revolution for "unity, justice and freedom" / J.J. Astor donates $400,000 for the Astor Public Library in New York City / New York's Germania Orchestra founded / Cincinnati Turnverein founded

1849 Arrival of "Forty-Eighters" after the failed democratic revolution in Germany / J.A. Sutter loses his land and fortune in the California gold rush

1850 Levi Strauss produces first pair of jeans!

1853 Heinrich Steinweg creates the Steinway piano in New York

1854 221,253 German immigrants arrive in this peak year

1856 Mrs. Carl Schurz establishes first American Kindergarten in Watertown, Wl

1859 Abraham Lincoln acquires the "Illinois Staatsanzeiger" paper and struggles through German grammar

1861 The Civil War (1861-65) / German-American militia safeguard Missouri for the Union / Julius Sturges brings first pretzel on the market in Lititz, PA

1862 Homestead Act / Sioux Uprising in Minnesota results in an attack on the German Turner town of New Ulm, MN

1865 Union army volunteers born in Germany numbered 5,000; 41 reached the rank of Major General / Young Count Zeppelin spent some time as a balloon observer during the Civil War

1866 After Prussia' victory over its arch rival, Austria is no longer a member state of the German Federation / Adolf Pfannenschmidt from Rinteln founds Pfannenschmidtstadt-better known today as Hollywood!

1867 America's first Socialist party formed in New York City

1868 Joseph Pullitzer becomes a reporter for a German-language newspaper in St. Louis, MO. He later the New York World and turned it into a successful newspaper. The prestigious Pullitzer Prizes in literature and journalism are named in his honor.

1870 San Antonio, TX is 50% German / The Franco-Prussian War (1870-71); Chancellor Otto von Bismarck unites German states in the "Second Reich" (1871-1918)

1872 Brewers Philip Best, Valentin Blatz, Franz Falk, Frederick Miller, Jacob Obermann, Frederick Pabst, Joseph Schlitz and others make Milwaukee the leading beer exporter

1873 Bismarck's 14-year "Kulturkampf"- power struggle with Catholicism over control of education, civil marriage, and church appointments-motivates Catholic emigration

1877 Carl Schurz, Secretary of the Interior (1877*81)

1878 Bismarck's Socialist Law leads to wave of Social Democrat emigration / "New Yorker Volkszeitung" becomes organ of Socialist-Labor party

1880 Wisconsin has more German-Americans than any other state. It still does!

1882 250,630 German immigrants come to America, more than in any other year

1883 15,000 German Mennonites from Russia settle in Kansas / Brooklyn Bridge opens -- built by the Roeblings

1884 Ottmar Mergenthaler revolutionizes type-setting

1886 The Haymarket Riots in Chicago lead to arrest and execution of radical socialist editor August Spies of the "Arbeiter Zeitung"

1888 Some 800 German-language publications represent more than 50% of America's foreign language press

1892 Henry Heinz, a German-American living in Pittsburgh, creates ketchup.

1893 Hesse-born John Peter Altgeld becomes Governor of Illinois

1901 The National German-American Alliance founded

1904 St. Louis Germans bring the "hamburger" on the market

1910 German-Americans developed 672,000 farms on a total area of 100,000,000 acres (an estimate)

1914 WW I begins in Europe. Pres.Wilson issues proclamations of neutrality / Frederick Weyerhaeuser, German-born lumber king, dies. His fortune: $300,000,000

1915 A German-American, Irish-American Alliance formed to keep the US out of the war

1917 The US enters the conflict. Anti-German hysteria throughout the country; German-language instruction ends in most states; hundreds of German-language publications cease to exist; many a Schmidt changes to Smith

1918 End of WW l; the imperial "Second Reich" ends / National German-American Alliance dissolved

1919 Germany's "Weimar Republic" founded / German instruction banned in Indiana and Nebraska; Steuben Society founded

1920 Prohibition until 1933; dark days for beer makers!

1921 First Quota Law limits immigration

1923 Supreme Court rules prohibiting German in schools unconstitutional / Charles P Steinmetz, GE's wizard of electricity, dies / Inflation rocks young German republic / Hitler arrested after failing to seize power in Munich

1928 Herbert Hoover (originally Huber) elected -- first president of German ancestry

1929 "Black Friday" on New York Stock Exchange leads to worldwide depression / baseball stars Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Honus Wagner, Frank Frisch, all of German descent

1933 Hitler becomes Chancellor of Germany. Beginning of mass exodus of Jewish and non-Jewish intellectuals and artists from Nazi Germany, including Bauhaus members

1934 The Steuben Society and most German-Americans oppose Nazi movement in the USA / the Carl Schurz Memorial Foundation (National Carl Schurz Association) publishes the "American-German Review" and assists refugees from Germany

1936 The German-American Bund (Deutsch-Amerikanischer Volksbund) with Fritz Kuhn as "Fuehrer," a Nazi organization

1937 The American Nazi Party claims 200,000 members

1939 Fritz Kuhn jailed for misappropriation of Bund funds / Hitler starts WW II with his Blitzkrieg against Poland

1940 Most of the 114,058 Germans coming to the USA between 1931 and 1940 are opposed to, or escape from, Nazi tyranny

1941 Following Pearl Harbor, Hitler declares war on the USA

1942 Gen. Eisenhower commands US Forces in the European theater. Like "Ike," Adm. Nimitz, Gen. Spaatz and others are also of German descent

1945 May 8, WW II in Europe ends with Germany's unconditional surrender / CARE packages and other American assistance during post war hunger period in West Germany are a big help

1948 The Marshall Plan, in conjunction with currency reform, jump starts the German economy into the "economic miracle" of postwar recovery

1949 The Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic founded; Germany divided until 1990

1950 128,600 Germans immigrate

1952 Gen. Eisenhower elected President

1968 Society for German-American Studies established

1969 Wernher von Braun and other German-American scientists provide leadership for US space program and moon landing

1973 Fuerth-born Henry A. Kissinger becomes Secretary of State and receives Nobel Peace Prize

1983 Tricentennial of German Immigration (landing of the "Concord" with 13 Krefeld families and founding of Germantown in 1683). German-American Day, Oct. 6, reinstituted

1990 According to the US Census, German-Americans are largest ethnic group with nearly 58 million (more than 23% of the population) claiming at least some German ancestry. Wisconsin has the highest percentage of Americans of German descent (nearly 54%), and Milwaukee is the US city with the largest % of German-Americans.


Dr. Don Heinrich Tolzmann, President of the Society of German-American Studies, points out that the German category does not include Germans from other German-speaking states and regions of Europe and the Americas. Hence, to the German statistic the following can be added:

1 Alsatian 16,465
2 Austrian 870,531
3 Luxemburger 49,061
4 Swiss-German 700,000*
5 German-Russian 10,153
6 Pennsylvania German 305,841
* 70% of the total Swiss statistic

These six additional German ethnic groups total 1,952,051. The total combination then of all the seven German ethnic categories is:

German category 57,985,595
Other categories 1,952,051
Total 59,937,646

The results indicate that German-Americans constitute a full one-fourth of the population (Deutsche Welt-U.S.A., July/August 1992).

blut-ehre
Saturday, November 29th, 2003, 12:42 PM
The Start :
The Germans when first immagrating to U.S. were picked upon because of their accents, the Americans making fun of how they talked... when the Irish came over they were picked on as well, only worse for I have no clue what reasons. But Germans kept quite and stayed to themselves - they made themselves a backbone by being hard workers which made most of the Americans shut up.
Pre-WW2/Start of it :
During this time there were a few Nazi Auslands-Organizations (AO) that were established in America to promote Nazi political strains into the country. The statistics showing more than 5 million Germans lived in U.S. would give Germany hope to making them a German colonization, Adolf Hitler often pointed out the selective breeding and how the Germans stayed on top.
Now days...:
Though German is still the largest ethnic group in America - it is being interbred and taken out of the picture faster than the others because it is the largest. It is the germans whos emotions are stomped on by the jews for making the Germans feel sorry for them. If Germans are the largest ethnic group, how are they being stomped on by a ethnicity/religion almost everyone despises ?

I know there is not much to this right now , but if others could add more about German America that'd be great :D

dinarid love
Saturday, November 29th, 2003, 05:50 PM
Great topic! As a german american, i know excatly what you mean. It is quite suprising to here that german is the largest ethnic group, because that is definantly not the case where i live. There are only 5 other people that i know with significant german heritage, yet we are still looked down upon by the jewish people at my school ( about 20%). I have no problem being looked down upon and ridiculed, but there are some who i have met that have given in, and whenever someone says something about NS germany they appologize immedeatly for there ancestors actions. I find it disgusting, it makes me sick that our/my people have turned so weak.

+Suomut+
Monday, December 1st, 2003, 01:24 AM
Well, I'm another German-American on this site, and there's a lot I could say about this/my/our topic but I'll keep my comments brief.

The Start :
The Germans when first immagrating to U.S. were picked upon because of their accents, the Americans making fun of how they talked... when the Irish came over they were picked on as well, only worse for I have no clue what reasons. But Germans kept quite and stayed to themselves - they made themselves a backbone by being hard workers which made most of the Americans shut up.The first white folks to set foot on the ground at the Jamestown Colony were indeed English, but this does not mean that ALL the subsequent feet to set foot on that earliest, permanent, colony were English--there were a tiny minority of deutsch folks at Jamestown too, so even at the earliest stage of the development of 'English-America' there were deutschers present.

I'd like to know where you got this idea that German immigrants to America were picked on due to their accents? I've done extensive research on Colonial German-America, and I've no where read of this. This doesn't mean such things didn't happen, I'm sure they did, but this is something that all immigrants to a foreign land with a different language have to endure. Colonial English-Americans generally welcomed and helped German immigrants in their settlements, I would list all the reasons for this, but the list would be too lengthy. In a nutshell, and by and large, the early English colonists never to any appreciable extent persecuted or oppressed German immigrants.

Over time, I think it was true that non-German-Americans came to have overall positive views of German-Americans precisely for the reasons you state. Ger.-Americans generally were in the habit, esp. in the earliest of Colonial days, of living in their own communities and minding their own business. Definitely, by the 19th Century, Ger.-Americans had acquired a reputation (as you say) of being hard-working, taciturn, and industrious.


Pre-WW2/Start of it :
During this time there were a few Nazi Auslands-Organizations (AO) that were established in America to promote Nazi political strains into the country. The statistics showing more than 5 million Germans lived in U.S. would give Germany hope to making them a German colonization, Adolf Hitler often pointed out the selective breeding and how the Germans stayed on top.Prior to WW1 there was no such a thing as anti-German sentiment in the U.S. During that war most Ger.-Americans were supportive of the war effort, although surely more than one had more than one reservation about it. There was a minority of Ger.-Americans who were opposed to the U.S. entry into that war against Germany and some of these even covertly supported Germany. During and after that war began the rise in anti-German sentiment in the U.S., esp. among those of non-German blood.

During the interwar period, there were indeed a small # of Ger.-Americans who were involved with and supportive of 'Nazi' style organizations, esp. Kuhn's German-American Bund. These orgs. were doomed to failure from their beginning for all sorts of reasons. The vast majority of Ger.-Americans during this period were either indifferent to (most) or opposed to (many) the activities of Hitlerian Germany.

WW2 marked the beginning of a new and more strident anti-German sentiment in the U.S. Of course, there were all sorts of reasons for that too. The simple fact of the matter was that the vast majority of Americans were not of German descent, so naturally the country as a whole developed a negative attitude toward any and all things German (Ger.-Americans excluded). Most Ger.-Americans during those days still clung to their heritage (after all, it's not easy to throw your ethnic heritage away) but refused to in any way be associated with Hitler and his ilk in Germany.

Now days...:
Though German is still the largest ethnic group in America - it is being interbred and taken out of the picture faster than the others because it is the largest. It is the germans whos emotions are stomped on by the jews for making the Germans feel sorry for them. If Germans are the largest ethnic group, how are they being stomped on by a ethnicity/religion almost everyone despises ?All White ethnic groups are in decline in the modern U.S. Ger.-Americans are not alone in this. I think the greatest challenge for Ger.-Americans today is to maintain the consciousness of being deutsch by blood and all the means necessary to that end. On my part, I view all Ger.-Americans who say: 'I'm German' or 'I'm German-American' in a positive light; but those here who are of German heritage and blood and deny this by saying such things as: 'I'm not German, I'm American, etc.' I think little of them and more than one of them in my life I've come to down right hate, as sad as it is for me to say that.

I don't think you have much to worry about when it comes the complete destruction and end of German-America. There are just too many of us Ger.-Americans, like you (I suppose), me, and MANY, MANY others who don't want this end to happen, so it will be a LONG time (if ever) that this will come about. The 'Oktoberfest phenomenon' of modern American culture has become too strong. There are plenty of Ger.-American girls out there that will wear dirndl at this or that function. There are plenty of Ger.-American boys that like to think of themselves as macho men of German blood. And then there are all these Ger.-American elders that can tell you precisely where their forefathers and foremothers came from in the old 'Vaterland.' German-America is all-in-all in good health these days, I think. It's a wonder that things are not FAR WORSE here in this regard.

Per this topic, I've attached a set of images in my possesion: (1)the first tells the illustrated story of a group of Salzburger (Austrian) Protestants who emigrated to America in the 1730-40s via Rotterdam and England. These folks went on to settle a specific Ger.-American community in the American South.; (2)the second is a painting by the leader (a German nobleman by the name of Philip Georg Friedrich von Reck, from the von Recks of the Harz Mountains) of a specific transport of Protestant hochdeutschers in 1735 to the same community in the Amer. South. This was one of the ships in this transport and was painted 'live' during the journey in the English Channel at the 'Needles and Shols' by the Isle of Wight. Enjoy. :)

blut-ehre
Monday, December 1st, 2003, 01:10 PM
I very much enjoyed it , I found a new link for this , it is a timeline
http://lcweb.loc.gov/rr/european/imde/germchro.html , rather if you wish to go to the beginning of the site it is
http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/imde/germany.html

i have statistical reports ^.^ --- from that website there are 58 million americans claiming they are from german descent.

Nordgau
Monday, December 1st, 2003, 01:37 PM
Not entirely serious: Years ago, in boring school lessons I sometimes have made fun by drawing detailed maps of the U.S.A. and Canada with all geographic and place names Germanized or translated in an imaginative way: Los Angeles became Engelsheim, San Francisco Franzensburg, Vancouver Wenkufer, Baltimore Baltenmuhr, Detroit Treuth, Toronto Tronden, Miami Maien and Chicago Schickach am See. I made Kansas to Kansaß, Texas to Techsaß Manitoba to Manitobel, Ohio to Ohei, Wyoming to Weimingen, Oregon to Arichen, Vermont to Grünbergland and New Mexico to Südmark. The Missouri got the name Missuhr, the Mississippi Misselsippel.

Hmm... how about Judenburg for New York? ;-)

Sigrun Christianson
Monday, December 1st, 2003, 01:45 PM
Los Angeles became Engelsheim, San Francisco Franzensburg, Vancouver Wenkufer, Baltimore Baltenmuhr, Detroit Treuth, Toronto Tronden, Miami Maien and Chicago Schickach am See. I made Kansas to Kansaß, Texas to Techsaß Manitoba to Manitobel, Ohio to Ohei, Wyoming to Weimingen, Oregon to Arichen, Vermont to Grünbergland and New Mexico to Südmark. The Missouri got the name Missuhr, the Mississippi Misselsippel.

Hmm... how about Judenburg for New York? ;-)
Judenburg, Kansaß and Techsaß.. LMAO! :rofl

I love it! I'm so going to steal those from you!

Jack
Tuesday, December 2nd, 2003, 01:50 AM
The German ethnicity in America has become more and more subsumed into the 'white' ethnicity/race in America. That's my guess/estimate of the situation. Irish and English hostility and seperate identity has largely faded in Australia, and only South Europeans still hold seperate identities in white Australian society, basically because A) they do look a bit different (I was raised in a suburb that was initially near-dominated by Greeks and Italians - I have respect for them, possibly more respect than I do for a lot of apathetic Anglo-Celt Australians) and B) because of this, and the fact they are a rather recent arrival into Australia (Adelaide had a large population of Germans - they're almost totally assimilated), they still hold to their own identity. I think with more and more problems caused by non-Europeans this identity will fade and merge with normal 'white Australian' identity.

Gladstone
Thursday, December 4th, 2003, 05:00 AM
In a broader sense even those English Jamestown settlers were Germanic being the descendents of the Anglo-Saxons who came from the German forest. That would be interesting if someone could adequately explain (in a thread) why powerful elements of the English seemed to have turned against and want to forget their roots. Excessive self-centerdness and pride?

Euclides
Friday, December 5th, 2003, 06:04 PM
The Start :
The Germans when first immagrating to U.S. were picked upon because of their accents, the Americans making fun of how they talked... when the Irish came over they were picked on as well, only worse for I have no clue what reasons. But Germans kept quite and stayed to themselves - they made themselves a backbone by being hard workers which made most of the Americans shut up.
Pre-WW2/Start of it :
During this time there were a few Nazi Auslands-Organizations (AO) that were established in America to promote Nazi political strains into the country. The statistics showing more than 5 million Germans lived in U.S. would give Germany hope to making them a German colonization, Adolf Hitler often pointed out the selective breeding and how the Germans stayed on top.
Now days...:
Though German is still the largest ethnic group in America - it is being interbred and taken out of the picture faster than the others because it is the largest. It is the germans whos emotions are stomped on by the jews for making the Germans feel sorry for them. If Germans are the largest ethnic group, how are they being stomped on by a ethnicity/religion almost everyone despises ?

I know there is not much to this right now , but if others could add more about German America that'd be great :D

Jack
Sunday, December 7th, 2003, 06:39 AM
In a broader sense even those English Jamestown settlers were Germanic being the descendents of the Anglo-Saxons who came from the German forest. That would be interesting if someone could adequately explain (in a thread) why powerful elements of the English seemed to have turned against and want to forget their roots. Excessive self-centerdness and pride?
Cultural rift and warfare between England and Scotland and the rest of Europe produced a seperate identity. That's my theory.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, December 29th, 2003, 07:57 AM
Gladstone, the answer to your question can be summed up in one word, "Norman". The Normans made everything Anglo-Saxon, that is evrything Germanic, obscene. They made us ashamed of ourselves. This happened in 1066, so by the early 1600s, this feeling was engrained in Colonial thought.

As an American, please believe me, we always wanted more German immigrants. We always wanted more from all the countries of Northern Europe. English-Americans brought with them a dislike of the Irish which caused problems after the 1848 potato famine. Nobody wanted the Jews, ever, and that is the truth. We just couldn't find legal grounds to stop them. Give the "founding fathers" credit for this one, at least.

Germans were always sought because they were willing to work hard and were willing and able to learn English and blend after one generation. The same can be said of the other ethnic groups mentioned. They all became Americans upon landing here. Germans in Europe have never forgiven us for this but this is how it is. When you come here, it must be with a 100% commitment. This is exactly the problem with Mexicans. With them, there is nothing---they remain Mexican.

Gladstone
Monday, December 29th, 2003, 04:20 PM
Gladstone, the answer to your question can be summed up in one word, "Norman". The Normans made everything Anglo-Saxon, that is evrything Germanic, obscene. They made us ashamed of ourselves. This happened in 1066, so by the early 1600s, this feeling was engrained in Colonial thought.

That is interesting, particularly as the Normans were in a sense not too distant relatives of the Anglo-Saxons (ie the Normans were Germanics). You have read writings which support this presumably? (If so I would be curious as to any links you might have if it's on the net)

Moody
Friday, January 16th, 2004, 05:29 PM
I think this is all true, but it does beg the question as to why a predominantly German nation went to war with Germany twice in the 20th century with disasterous results for the Germans.
This may throw some light on the effects of acculturation.

Allenson
Friday, January 16th, 2004, 07:51 PM
Adapted from: The German Americans: An Ethnic Experience
by LaVern J. Rippley and Eberhard Reichmann


1776 The Great American Revolution / Braunschweiger and Hessian troops land in Quebec (and introduce the decorated Christmas tree to North America); more than 10,000 remained in America



Very interesting, for sure.

One of my direct forbearers was one of the 10,000 'Hessians' mentioned above. He actually came from Hildesheim and was in the Brunswick regiment.

I can only imagine the amazing opportunity it must have been for a poor, lower class German & life-long professional soldier, with little chance of advancing in society at home, to actually have the ability to acquire his own land and build his own homestead and farm here in the New World. The pull and allure of this must have been great as this is exactly what he did.

He settled in Lexington, NY in the Catskill Mountains where the Angle (Engleke) farm still stands today.

Here are a pic of the house and its setting.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, April 22nd, 2004, 06:47 AM
America is much less "British" than Commonwealth countries. This is because of the extensive German immigration. Americans are so quick to forget their roots but they still drink German-like beer and eat German-like sausages in comparison to the English. As a matter of fact, there was a debate in this country during the Constitutional Convention as to which language would be "American". We had a sizeable population of Germans in Pennsylvania (Penn's forest from a Slavic word) and a sizeable population of Dutch in New York. German vs. Engish was debated at that time. German was taken seriously as our national language.

Let me tell you about "American English". My great-grandfather had a Ph.D. but my Grandfather was raised on the Oklahama frontier as a peasant. His father's father's father came from Germany. Yet my Grandfather, who had a third grade education, once asked me on a visit there in Oklahoma, if he had made the coffee too "stark" (strong). He could count in German. He didn't learn this in school. It was a carry-over from the German immigration of about 1848. But people in Oklahoma understood this talk. Today, in rural America, there are still echos of the German lanugage in the peasant people.

Annikaspapa
Saturday, April 24th, 2004, 06:40 AM
...(h)is father's father's father came from Germany.
Correct me if my calculations are wrong, but that makes you, what - sixth generation German-American. I'm curious – what type of activities do you (and all other x generation "euro"-americans in the States) participate in, in order to maintain a connection to your cultural heritage? As an example - California has a good number of German(German/American) organizations. Do you take part in any such ethnic (for lack of a better term) activities or functions? Support ethnic markets, butchers, importers, newspapers, etc..?

Vestmannr
Saturday, April 24th, 2004, 06:57 AM
The Oktoberfest in Tulsa, OK is ranked #5 in the world, or so they told me there last year. They still play the traditional music, which many other Oktoberfest's do not. German restaurants are not so common, but do well across Texas and Oklahoma. The beer culture here is entirely German (I'm particularly a fan of Shiner, TX brewery.) Sausage factories and butchers are common, and most often are German. I've found the same to be true in Wisconsin. I dont see German language newspapers so much, and the only community I recall offhand is at Ft. Hood, TX. Oklahoma City has one good German bakery, run by a man who was apprenticed in Berlin after WWII, before moving to Oklahoma City to set up a bakery. When driving through, I make it a point to stop and buy as my mother worked their at her first job. Bakeries in America are often German run. My grandmother only speaks a few phrases of Plattsdeutsch, and their German identity was hurt very much by WWI and WWII (mostly by WWI). However, many things did not change. I find most of my German ancestors who came to America before the late 1800s, Anglicized their names as well. It is difficult to find anyone in America in the West or South, who if they are English, Scots, Irish descent.. are not also German descent. Other than that: loyalty to German brands is the only other thing I could note: Volkswagen, Haribo, etc. I dont think German culture and identity was ever threatened as much as Irish was in the Northern states, so it is not overly emphasized. IOW, Americans of German descent have no need to prove their Germanity.

Annikaspapa
Wednesday, April 28th, 2004, 08:38 PM
I dont see German language newspapers so much...

For those who might be interested in German language publications in the USA: http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa071299b.htm

JoeDas
Friday, August 6th, 2004, 05:50 AM
A Brief Study of Germans in America and German Immigration to America

In the year 1800, there were 450,000 Germans in America. There were 5 million total Americans that year, so Germans represented 9% of the total American population in those days. Slaves accounted for 18% of the population; so the free population was about 4.1 million. Germans represented 11% of free population.
A few decades later, Germans would start immigrating to America in large numbers:

German Immigration to America by decade (out of the total German population that decade; percent of the total population that emigrated to America)
1830s......175,000 (30 million; 0.6%)
1840s......400,000 (33 million; 1.2%)
1850s......900,000 (35 million; 2.5%)
1860s......800,000 (38 million; 2.1%)
1870s......750,000 (42 million; 1.8%)
1880s...1,500,000 (45 million; 3.3%)
1890s......550,000 (49 million; 1.2%)
1900s......400,000 (57 million; 0.7%)
1910s......200,000 (65 million; 0.3%)
Total.....5,675,000

Total number of persons in America today who are of German descent: 58 million. Of these 58 million, 23 million are only of German descent; 22.5 million are majority German descent (“first ancestry”); 12.5 million are minority German descent (“second ancestry”). Germans are the largest ethnic group in the United States. They represent 20% of the total American population, and nearly 30% of the White population.

Where the German-Americans Live
Germans represent a majority of the total population of 5 states (Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota). Germans represent between 1/3rd and one half of the population of 10 states (Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Oregon). Germans represent between 1/4th and 1/3rd of the population of 9 states (Maryland, West Virginia, Michigan, Illinois, Nevada, Idaho, Washington state, Arizona, Alaska). Therefore, Germans represent at least 1/4th of the population of 24 states. Germans represent at least 15% of the population in every state except for the New England states and the Deep South.

Look at these maps to get a better idea of where the German-Americans live:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16964
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16965
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16966
The third map shows every county in the United States. It shows the number of persons of German descent in that county per 1000 population.

In-Depth breakdown of persons of German descent
There are 58 million persons of German-descent in America. Approximately 4 million are descended from the Germans that were already in America by 1800. (2 million of these are only of German descent; 1 million are majority German descent; 1 million are minority German descent). 53 million of the persons with German ancestry are descended from the German immigrants that arrived between the 1840s and WWI. Approximately 1 million persons who claim German descent were either born in Germany or are the descendants of Germans who arrived after WWI.

Biggest Supplier of Immigrants
Germany was the biggest supplier of immigrants to America of any country in Europe. Between 1820 and 1920, there were 30 million European immigrants that came to America. Nearly 5.7 million of them were Germans. Therefore nearly 20% of all European immigrants that came to America between 1820 and 1920 were Germans.

Annikaspapa
Wednesday, August 11th, 2004, 08:40 PM
I've created this thread with the intent of forming a central location for the gathering of information on activities and resources available for those members and visiting readers interested in connecting further with the German culture as it exists in the US and Canada.

Some examples of appropriate topics might include listings of events (Ethnic societies, Goethe Institute, Universities and cultural institutions), contact information for clubs and businesses (book, music, DVD importers), links to German language media sources, etc.

I’ll do my best, time permitting, to add what I can and I invite others to participate, as they are able…

JoeDas
Friday, August 20th, 2004, 07:20 AM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17747

I made this map to show people where the German-Americans live, and unlike other maps similiar to this that you may have seen, this map gives the percentages of Germans in each state out of the White population of that state instead of out of the total population.

My methodology was simple: I took the percentage of people in each state who claimed German descent according to the Census and divided it by the percentage of that state that is White Non-Hispanic according to the Census. For example, if 20% of people in a given state are German descent, and the state is 65% White, 20/65 * 100 = 30.77 ... this state would be listed as 31% on the map
...

this map shows many interesting things about German-Americans:

The Midwestern states are all heavily German, in fact Germans are a majority of the White population in 6 states
Germans have a strong presence in all the Northern states except New England
Germans represent at least 25% of the White population in every state in the union except for the South, New England, and Utah (the Germans weren't big on converting to wacko cults like Mormonism I guess :D )
Generally speaking, the more Northwards you go, the higher percentage of Germans there are (at least East of the Rockies that's true)
It's no exaggeration to say that millions and millions of people worldwide wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for the German-Americans, since they represent such a large percentage of the Midwestern farm states' population (the so-called "breadbasket of the world").
The data for some of the states radically changes when just the White popuation is used instead of the entire population. For example: Hawaii-Percent of state population that is German--9.3%. Percent of state population that is White Non-Hispanic--22.9%. Percent of White population that is German--40%. California-Percent of state population that is German--16.6%. Percent of state population that is White Non-Hispanic--46.7%. Percent of White population that is German--35.5%. ...and there's many more but those are two of the most striking.
Nearly Two-thirds of Whites in Wisconsin are German-descent, cementing that state's title as the most German-American state
If you meet a White Northerner who isn't from New England, the odds are well over 4 in 10 that they are German-descent


comments invited

Utilitarianism
Friday, August 20th, 2004, 07:25 AM
There seem to be very many German-Americans. One doesn't properly understand how America could side against Germany in two world wars.

Did German-Americans support American anti-German war-efforts?

JoeDas
Friday, August 20th, 2004, 07:33 AM
There seem to be very many German-Americans. One doesn't properly understand how America could side against Germany in two world wars.

Did German-Americans support American anti-German war-efforts?Why do you think America stayed out of WWI until near the end?:) And they didn't enter WWII until over two years after Poland was invaded...there were huge anti-war groups led by German-Americans during both wars, although moreso during WWI.

Incidentally, in 1944, only 12 states voted against FDR in his re-election bid. 10 of them were Green and Red states on the map (i.e. they were very heavily German)...coincidence? One of these was the most German-American state, Wisconsin, even though they had voted for FDR in '32, '36, and '40!

Northern Paladin
Friday, August 20th, 2004, 07:58 AM
Are the Germans the Largest Ethnic group in America or was it the Irish?

JoeDas
Friday, August 20th, 2004, 10:35 AM
Are the Germans the Largest Ethnic group in America or was it the Irish?The Germans are the largest ethnic group in America. 60 million Americans claim German descent (24 million of those are only German descent), and 39 milion Americans claim Irish descent (10 million of those are only Irish descent).
...

20% of all Americans are of German descent; and 30% of White Americans are German descent

TisaAnne
Saturday, August 21st, 2004, 08:02 AM
Did German-Americans support American anti-German war-efforts?My grandpa fought in WW2, and he was a first generation American (his parent's immigrated from Germany in 1912). He was not allowed to fight in Europe, only on the Pacific side because he was considered "potentially compromising".

After WW1, two sets of my great-grandparents came to America from Germany. Though they did not have children involved in WW2, my German relatives did not resent America's participation against Germany in the war effort...They left Germany for a reason, and it wasn't to find the "American Dream". :(

Skeletor
Saturday, August 21st, 2004, 10:55 AM
The Germans are the largest ethnic group in America. 60 million Americans claim German descent (24 million of those are only German descent), and 39 milion Americans claim Irish descent (10 million of those are only Irish descent).
...

20% of all Americans are of German descent; and 30% of White Americans are German descent
The Germanic inhabitant of the American continent, who has remained racially pure and unmixed, rose to become master of the same; he will remain master as long as he does not fall victim to defilement of the blood. Mein KampfI:11

Gr.D.
Saturday, August 21st, 2004, 02:33 PM
Es ist den Vereinigten Staaten Deutschlands ähnlich.

At first americanize Europe.
Then germanize America.
After this you can germanize Europe and even Russians with bear faces.

Vlad Cletus
Saturday, August 21st, 2004, 03:38 PM
That's a great map you compiled there with an efficient legend.

Germans are responsible for much of America's sucess and ingenuity, indeed.

JoeDas
Sunday, August 22nd, 2004, 09:50 AM
By the way, to make the map in the first post I used the ancestry statistics from the 1990 Census. If we use the ancestry statistics from the 2000 Census, the German-American map would look this:

http://forums.skadi.net//attachment.php?attachmentid=17854&stc=1

(Some German-Americans grumbled after the Census 2000 ancestry statistics were released, claiming they had been undercounted. There were nearly 60 million German-Americans according to the 1990 Census, but the 2000 Census said there were only 45 million. Clearly, there wasn't a population loss of 15 million in a single decade, and clearly the Census had undercounted the Germans in 2000. Nevertheless, I think this map is probaby a little more accurate for the state percentages, and that is why I am posting this new one)




Though they did not have children involved in WW2, my German relatives did not resent America's participation against Germany in the war effort...Most German-Americans justifed the war by thinking of it not as a fight against Germany, but a fight against Nazism. For example, the famous American folk singer Pete Seeger sang a song called "Round and Round Hitler's grave" in 1942, and it got lots of radio time. He sang "Round and Round Hitler's grave", not "Round and Round Germany's grave". The interesting thing about this is that Seeger is, after all, a German surname.


My grandpa fought in WW2, and he was a first generation American (his parent's immigrated from Germany in 1912). He was not allowed to fight in Europe, only on the Pacific side because he was considered "potentially compromising".This is very interesting. But I've heard of other first-generation German-Americans and first-generation Italians who fought in Europe on the Allied side under Ike's leadership (another intereting note: Eisenhower was also German descent...).

So your grandfather was born here but they still considered him potentially subversive? Usually they only did that to foreign-born people.

ogenoct
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 01:19 AM
After this you can germanize Europe and even Russians with bear faces.
Bear faces???

Constantin

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 01:28 AM
There is a much simpler answer to the question of the loyality of Americas of German ancestry during both world wars. In neither instance did Americans of German ancestry or non-Jewish Americans of any ancestry want to go to war against Germany. The majority simply did not want to do so. The mass media in England and pressure from England influenced public opinion before WW1 but still, most Americans did not want to go. Before WW2, the Jewish media in the USA had come into its own and was drumming for war. Roosevelt knew he had to bide his time since the idea was so unpopular. Pearl Harbor changed everything. Three days later Hitler declared war on the USA making public opinion polls mute.

Stríbog
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 01:41 AM
Most German-Americans justifed the war by thinking of it not as a fight against Germany, but a fight against Nazism.


So how did they feel about Hamburg, Dresden, Bromberg and the Sudetenland expulsions? They certainly didn't complain much...



For example, the famous American folk singer Pete Seeger sang a song called "Round and Round Hitler's grave" in 1942, and it got lots of radio time. He sang "Round and Round Hitler's grave", not "Round and Round Germany's grave". The interesting thing about this is that Seeger is, after all, a German surname.


Pete Seeger was a kike. :eyes



This is very interesting. But I've heard of other first-generation German-Americans and first-generation Italians who fought in Europe on the Allied side under Ike's leadership (another intereting note: Eisenhower was also German descent...).


Ike was also part Jewish.

ogenoct
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 01:44 AM
Ike was also part Jewish.
And a war criminal who was responsible for the deaths of one million German POWs (after the war had already ended).

Constantin

JoeDas
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 02:46 AM
So how did they feel about Hamburg, Dresden, Bromberg and the Sudetenland expulsions? They certainly didn't complain much...What are you talking about? There certainly was a lot of discontent in the US civilian population about those things, especially among Amercans with German ancestry. American newspapers and Amercan civilians were very critical of the civilian casualties in Germany as a result of Amercan & Brtish bombing and naturally the German-Americans were even more oppossed to these heavy-handed actions. But the larger picture was that the war had to be won. Remember that the American people supported the war because in their minds it was a war against the evils of Fascist tyranny and a war in defense of the four freedoms (http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/at0058a.5s.jpg). They certainy didn't support the war because they hated Germans, since three in ten Americans had German ancestry in those days, after all.


Pete Seeger was a kike. He certainly wasn't


Ike was also part Jewish.According to anti-semites like yourself, everyone that you don't like was/is "part Jewish" ... Eisenhower's family was Pennsylvania German, not Jewish. He was a baptized, practicing Presbyterian, he was never Jewish

Narcissus
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 03:05 AM
First off, I found your map very interesting, and I applaud your work on it.

However, I think there's a fundamental problem with gathering ethnic data in the United States, and that is that at least half of these people identifying as Germans are not 100% so, and most 50% or less. I'd hazard a guess that most German-Americans are descendents of immigrants who left after the Revolutions in the late 1840's. Descendents of these immigrants are, for the most part, only going to be purely German in ancestry if their family never left the German-American enclave that it immigrated to.

For example, I have a German ancestor who immigrated in 1848 to Newark, NJ, which soon become a heavily German city with a distinct German section. His son stayed in the city, and thus married another child of a German immigrant. However, his grandson was born in a more mobile era, and married a wife of Irish descent from a few counties away. Three Generations later, I'm only about 14% German.

My point is, you can't really make generalizations about German-Americans except in those areas in the Midwest where the majority of whites are of German descent. These are the areas in which the families are more likely to have never left the farms they first bought for themselves. In the rest of the country, I doubt most people identifying with the German ethnic group are even close to 100% German, and their "Germanness" certainly has very little bearing on how they live their lives today. It's basically nothing more than a conversation piece.

I have to repeat though, very interesting chart. :)

JoeDas
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 03:32 AM
Of the 58 million people who identified themselves as German descent in the Census, 23 million reported they were only of German descent ("single ancestry"); 22.5 million said that their main ancestry was German (“first ancestry”); 12.5 million said they are minority German descent (“second ancestry”).

So you're right Narcissus, only about 40% of self-described Germans reported having only German descent in the Census. Depending on where you are in the country, this 40% figure can be significantly higher or significantly lower. For example, the figure is probably higher in the upper midwest, but I'd bet it is significantly lower in the deep South

JoeDas
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 03:43 AM
"I'd hazard a guess that most German-Americans are descendents of immigrants who left after the Revolutions in the late 1840's" You're right again:

In the year 1800, there were 350,000 Germans in America. There were 5 million total Americans that year, so Germans represented 7% of the total American population. Slaves accounted for 18% of the population; so the free population was about 4.1 million. Germans represented 9% of the free population. A few decades later, Germans started immigrating to America in large numbers:

German Immigration to America by decade (out of the total population of Germany that decade; percentage of the total population that emigrated to America)
1830s - ...175,000 (30 million; 0.6%)
1840s - ...400,000 (33 million; 1.2%)
1850s - ...900,000 (35 million; 2.5%)
1860s - ...800,000 (38 million; 2.1%)
1870s - ...750,000 (42 million; 1.8%)
1880s - 1,500,000 (45 million; 3.3%)
1890s - ...550,000 (49 million; 1.2%)
1900s - ...400,000 (57 million; 0.7%)
1910s - ...200,000 (65 million; 0.3%)
Total - .5,675,000

Stríbog
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:46 AM
He certainly wasn't


If he wasn't, then he certainly behaved like one:

"His never ending battle against injustice led to his being blacklisted during the McCarthy era, celebrated during the turbulent '60s, and welcomed at union rallies throughout his life. His tireless efforts regarding global concerns such as environmentalism, population growth, and racial equality have earned him the respect and friendship of such political heroes asMartin Luther King, Jr., Woody Guthrie, and Cesar Chavez, and the generations of children who first learned to sing and clap to Seeger's Folkways recordings must number in the millions. Rising above all of Seeger's political ideals and his passion for authentic folk music is his clear voice and chiming banjo which both sing out with a clarity that rings true."

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Pete%20Seeger:1927001791:page=biograph y

Jewish Children Songs and Games (1957): Ruth Rubin and Pete Seeger CD

http://www.worldmusicstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2787



According to anti-semites like yourself, everyone that you don't like was/is "part Jewish" ... Eisenhower's family was Pennsylvania German, not Jewish. He was a baptized, practicing Presbyterian, he was never Jewish

I don't care what in what denomination he was baptized. A splash of water does not change one's genetic heritage.


"God, I hate the Germans..." (Dwight David Eisenhower in a letter to his wife in September, 1944)

Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who was given access to the Eisenhower personal letters, states that he proposed to exterminate the entire German General Staff, thousands of people, after the war.

Eisenhower, in his personal letters, did not merely hate the Nazi Regime, and the few who imposed its will down from the top, but that HE HATED THE GERMAN PEOPLE AS A RACE. It was his personal intent to destroy as many of them as he could, and one way was to wipe out as many prisoners of war as possible.

"...it is hard to escape the conclusion that Dwight Eisenhower was a war criminal of epic proportions. His (DEF) policy killed more Germans in peace than were killed in the European Theater."

"Apparently, there was a question of Eisenhower's racial lineage and this was brought to Eisenhower's attention by the headmaster. When asked if he was part Oriental, Eisenhower replied in the negative. After some discussion, Eisenhower admitted having Jewish background. The headmaster then reportedly said, "That's where you get your Oriental blood?" Although he was allowed to remain at the academy, word got around since this was a time in history when non-Whites were not allowed into the academy. Note - The issue of Eisenhower's little-known Jewish background in academically essential in understanding his psychopathic hatred of German men, women and children. "

"Later, in Eisenhower's West Point Military Academy graduating class yearbook, published in 1915, Eisenhower is identified as a "terrible Swedish Jew."

Wherever Eisenhower went during his military career, Eisenhower's Jewish background and secondary manifesting behavior was a concern to his fellow officers."

http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog/C177199123/E1794399476/

http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm

Stríbog
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:48 AM
And please tell us what your definition of "anti-Semite" is.

JoeDas
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:57 AM
I don't want to turn this into a pointless back-and-forth, so I will be as succinct as I can.

Eisenhhower never practiced the Jewish religion. He was baptized a Protestant and that's what he was his entire life.
The "Eisenhower is a Jew" stuff is simply not true. Some pathetic anti-semite made the claim up and made up false quotes to back up the false story.
Eisenhower's supposed Jewish ancestry does not appear in any legitimate biography on Eisenhower; it only appears on anti-semitic and conspiracy websites.
There is not a single shred of proof that Eisenhower was part Jewish. Extraordinary claims like this require at least some real proof. Anonymously-written unverifiable articles on the Jeff Rense website are not proof.
If this crazy claim had any validity at all, Jewish groups would celebrate the "Jewish president" just as they celebrate other famous Jewish-Americans...or are the Jews "in on it" too?
There was a war going on in which America was losing hundreds of men dead every day, so quoting an out-of-context personal letter in which the war-weary Supreme Allied Commander says he hates the guys who are killing hundreds of his men daily is neither an implication of Eisenhower's supposed Jewishness nor of his German-hatred. He didn't hate Germans. He was a German-American after all.
The German Embassy (http://www.usembassy.de/usa/germanamericans.htm) in the USA says Eisenhower was of German descent. I challenge you to find one reputable site like the German embassy site that claims Eisenhower had Jewish ancestry. I'll save you a little time. There are no such sites.
Pete Seeger was a leftist, just like every other folk singer in America since the 1930s. That doesn't mean he's Jewish.

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 02:08 PM
I don't care how many million yankees claim German descent. It is as trustworthy as the Americans claiming to have been abducted by extraterrestrians. "German-Americans" are worthless. And most of the German nationals residing in the U.S. are equally worthless and should stay there till their death. We don't need them, we don't like them and we don't want them.

Mac Seafraidh
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 03:46 PM
Where I lived in Maryland had a lot of German-Americans, but many seemed to be mongrelized.

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 03:48 PM
They are mentally mogrelized and lobotomized the American way. That is much, much worse than racial mongrelization. But it makes them 100% American.

Narcissus
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 04:30 PM
They are mentally mogrelized and lobotomized the American way. That is much, much worse than racial mongrelization. But it makes them 100% American.

Your blind hatred of some 281 million people is intriguing. I'd ask you to expound upon your views, but I'm sure you already have at some point.

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:05 PM
Not even remotely 281 million. Just white and Jewish Americans. I have no problem with American negroes, Hispanics, Arabs, Indians and other Americans. Just the pro-Zionist pseudo-Christian self-righteous, mass-murdering religious nuts.

Telperion
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:21 PM
Just the pro-Zionist pseudo-Christian self-righteous, mass-murdering religious nuts.
Do all white Americans actually fall into that category, empirically speaking?

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:29 PM
Those who don't and live in the U.S. are in bad luck.

ogenoct
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 06:52 PM
They are mentally mogrelized and lobotomized the American way. That is much, much worse than racial mongrelization. But it makes them 100% American.
As if Germans in Germany were not equally mongrelized! Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool?

Constantin

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 07:45 PM
I think I know a whole lot more Germans than you do.

Mac Seafraidh
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 07:53 PM
They are mentally mogrelized and lobotomized the American way. That is much, much worse than racial mongrelization. But it makes them 100% American.Actually, some German-Americans live very German like. Schroeder has brainwashed you as the Jews have brainwashed quite a bit of our Euro-American society. I do not support Bush nor Kerry.

ogenoct
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 08:46 PM
I think I know a whole lot more Germans than you do.
That might be true or maybe not, but I think that a know a whole lot more Americans than you do. What is your point?

Constantin

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 08:54 PM
My point is that you are still a puerile spoilt wannabe poet living out the usual American antics. Therefore your judgment is totally irrelevant.

ogenoct
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 08:56 PM
My point is that you are still a puerile spoilt wannabe poet living out the usual American antics. Therefore your judgment is totally irrelevant.
Ah, I see... And you are the noble Prussian fencing master who put himself into the role of Great Arbiter of Nations. What a pathetic creep you are!

Constantin

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:00 PM
Your neck will get sore from looking up to me. Get a massage.

ogenoct
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:02 PM
Your neck will get sore from looking up to me. Get a massage.
Got one this morning. Up there and below... Maybe you should let out your sexual frustrations in an arcade? In the words of eternal degenerate American Tyler Durden: "This conversation is over."

Constantin

Mac Seafraidh
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:04 PM
My point is that you are still a puerile spoilt wannabe poet living out the usual American antics. Therefore your judgment is totally irrelevant.
Don't worry about the American world power. The United Negroes are going to rule us all soon. Forget being against America. The UN is the number one enemy.

Stríbog
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:10 PM
Vielleicht sollen wir auf deutsch reden?

Mac Seafraidh
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:13 PM
Ja, Wir können vielleicht

Phlegethon
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:42 PM
The UN is the number one enemy. I hope you know that the United Nations are an invention of the Americans - directed against Germany, Japan and Italy. Without yankees there would be no UN.

Mac Seafraidh
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 09:47 PM
You are right Phel and I am anti UN. They are now a separation of the United States. They force immigrants into countries destroying culture. I could care less about Japan. Good observation. I am glad you hate America as much as I do. Bush wants to destroy our culture just because Jeb,his brother, has a mestiza wife, complete F*CKIN BS.(Oh yeah I forgot his mestizo nephew south of the border that wants to speak to us.)

Tore
Tuesday, August 24th, 2004, 03:57 AM
Not even remotely 281 million. Just white and Jewish Americans. I have no problem with American negroes, Hispanics, Arabs, Indians and other Americans.

I'm certainly no fan of American foreign policy, or better yet, anything that emanates from America in general, although this is, quite simply put, one step too far.

As a Canadian, I despise virtually all political opinions voiced by the White Canadian citizenry, yet the degree of solidarity I share with other Canadians of European descent, however miniscule it may be, is infinitely greater than any sense of brotherhood I would willingly express towards landed third-world immigrants or aboriginals, and always will be.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Friday, September 3rd, 2004, 05:29 PM
The Start :
The Germans when first immagrating to U.S. were picked upon because of their accents, the Americans making fun of how they talked... when the Irish came over they were picked on as well, only worse for I have no clue what reasons. But Germans kept quite and stayed to themselves - they made themselves a backbone by being hard workers which made most of the Americans shut up.
Pre-WW2/Start of it :
During this time there were a few Nazi Auslands-Organizations (AO) that were established in America to promote Nazi political strains into the country. The statistics showing more than 5 million Germans lived in U.S. would give Germany hope to making them a German colonization, Adolf Hitler often pointed out the selective breeding and how the Germans stayed on top.
Now days...:
Though German is still the largest ethnic group in America - it is being interbred and taken out of the picture faster than the others because it is the largest. It is the germans whos emotions are stomped on by the jews for making the Germans feel sorry for them. If Germans are the largest ethnic group, how are they being stomped on by a ethnicity/religion almost everyone despises ?

I know there is not much to this right now , but if others could add more about German America that'd be great :D
You make it sound like Dutch, French and Spanish weren't living in America.

Annikaspapa
Wednesday, September 8th, 2004, 05:05 AM
Of the two dozen or so german language newspapers still in print in the US today, these four would probably be at the top of the list:

Nordamerikanische Wochenpost
Amerikas Wochenzeitung in Deutscher Sprache
www.wochenpostusa.com

Neue Presse
Die aktuelle deutschsprachige Wochenzeitung in Nordamerika
www.neuepresse.com

New Yorker Staats-Zeitung
Für Weltbürger Deutscher Sprache
http://www.germancorner.com/NYStaatsZ/

Amerika - Woche & Washington Journal
www.amerikawoche.com

Interested individuals should contact them via there web-sites. To the best of my knowledge all would offer free samples or trial subscriptions to potential readers in the states.

Those with no knowledge of the german language, but with an interest in German culture - on both sides of the Atlantic - would do well to have a look at German Life magazine
www.germanlife.com

JoeDas
Saturday, September 18th, 2004, 02:10 AM
I can add this comprehensive list of 2004 Oktoberfests across North America in case anyone is interested: http://www.aviso.net/dir/usa/german/events/oktoberfest.htm . I've been to one of them near where I live, this one: http://www.germantownoktoberfest.org/. We had a great time! :) It was very lively and a great experience.

http://www.aviso.net/dir/usa/german/events/hd_oktoberfest.jpg

http://www.germantownoktoberfest.org/images/logo.gif

Nordgau
Thursday, October 7th, 2004, 06:28 PM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/10/20041006-17.html

German-American Day, 2004
By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation


Generations of German immigrants and their descendents have helped build America and chart its course through history. On German-American Day, we recognize these proud citizens for their important contributions to America and honor the bond between two great nations.

German Americans have been part of America's history since its earliest days, beginning with the establishment of the Jamestown Colony in 1607 and the arrival of German Quakers and Mennonite families in 1683. Many of these early settlers came to America seeking religious freedom and the chance to develop a community based on tolerance and respect for all people. During the westward expansion of the United States, many German families helped settle communities, found cities, and develop the agriculture industry. Over time, the core beliefs of these freedom-loving individuals helped define the liberty and opportunity that our country represents. Their traditions of public debate and active citizenship influenced important social issues such as land reform, abolition, workers' rights, and women's suffrage.

This week, our Government is breaking ground for a new Embassy in historic Berlin, exemplifying America's support of a unified Germany. Sharing a common commitment to freedom, peace, and prosperity, the citizens of Germany and America can build a better future for the benefit of all nations.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim October 6, 2004, as German-American Day, and I encourage all Americans to recognize the contributions of our citizens of German descent.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this sixth day of October, in the year of our Lord two thousand four, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-ninth.

GEORGE W. BUSH

SouthernBoy
Friday, October 8th, 2004, 03:15 AM
I wonder if he means pure Germans or people with German blood in general? I wouldn't mind sneaking a beer or two of German-American Day. :)

Fraxinus Excelsior
Tuesday, October 12th, 2004, 09:35 PM
I’ll do my best, time permitting, to add what I can and I invite others to participate, as they are able…http://www.germancorner.com/gcbanner2003.gif (http://www.germancorner.com/)

http://www.dank.org/dankmarchnewyork.jpg (http://www.dank.org/)

GERMAN AMERICANA (http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/germusa.htm)

German-American Citizens League (http://www.gacl.org/)

German-American History and Heritage (http://www.germanheritage.com/)

Siegfried
Monday, October 18th, 2004, 02:56 PM
October 6th is German American Day. Sigrdrifa (http://www.sigrdrifa.net) has a Heritage Action Kit online (click here (http://www.sigrdrifa.net/gad.shtml)) which can be downloaded for free.


The goals of this Action Kit are to educate the public about German American Day and the valuable contributions of the Germans in America and Canada, to promote German American Day, to celebrate the positive influence the Germans have had on our country and in our communities, and to honor our German ancestors. Strengthen your identity and learn about German culture, history and folklore. Strengthen your community by telling others about rich German heritage. Strengthen the bonds of our Folk by educating them about their culture.

Sigrdrifa's German American Day Action Kit is available online at no charge. Please feel free to download this kit and help us educate, promote, celebrate and honor our German Heritage and our Ancestors!

Hreidmar
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 07:27 PM
Here is a link to a decent German-American website:

http://www.germancorner.com/

QuietWind
Sunday, November 21st, 2004, 05:57 AM
My ancestor Christian Köhler came over from Wurtemburg, Germany in 1835. If I count correctly, I am 5th generation American? Christian had several sons, one named E. E had three sons, one named H. H had three sons, one named R. R had three sons and one daughter, one son was named M. M is my dad. :) So, born in America = E -> H -> R -> M -> Me. Or do I count Christian as well and I am 6th generation? Anyhow, my families settled in Ohio and bought land there that they farmed and passed down from generation to generation until my aunt finally sold it. My mom has all these old pics of our family that I can't wait till they become mine. On my mother's side, we are also German, but I do not have her family history like I have on my dad's side. We have so many other German surnames in our ancestry, which shows that we maily kept with our own people. I do have a smidgen of English and Irish way down the line somewhere. :P

I live in a city in Texas called New Braunfels. We have a wonderful Wurstfest every year with authentic German music, dancing and folk dress. It is a lot of fun to attend. http://www.wurstfest.com/tours.htm
I took pictures this year to share on skadi, but then my digital camera messed up and I lost them all. In December, we have a Wassailfest. There are wonderful places to eat here such as "Oma's Haus." Our newspaper here is called the Herald-Zeitung.

Annikaspapa
Wednesday, December 15th, 2004, 05:16 AM
Nordamerikanische Wochenpost
Amerikas Wochenzeitung in Deutscher Sprache
www.wochenpostusa.com





Just revisited this thread and while checking the validity of the links I've posted, noticed that this site has several interesting christmas related articles linked from the current edition. As it is the season, I thought I would bring this to the top...

Frohe Festtage!
Annikaspapa

AngryPotato
Wednesday, December 15th, 2004, 06:38 AM
I took part in this one http://www.oldworld.ws/okfest.html while on a business trip and was pretty much sickened by the experience. Perhaps it was the late night atmosphere that turned me off, but it felt very bastardized and Americanized. For some reason I don't think that jello shots from women's belly buttons was/is a common part of the German fest. I didn't have a chance to hit the Bavarian Village during the day to avoid the college age crowd.

I also missed the Daschund dog racing :(

Mac Seafraidh
Wednesday, December 15th, 2004, 07:08 AM
German Embassy in DC:

http://germany-info.org


Some Canadian links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-Canadian
http://germancanadian.uwinnipeg.ca/

Rollon
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 11:38 PM
The official site of the City of Bismarck, North Dakota :

http://www.bismarck.org/

Fraxinus Excelsior
Saturday, February 5th, 2005, 09:06 PM
I had forgotten about this already existent thread when I started my own thread to post the link to The German-Canadian Heritage Museum (http://www.german-canadian.ca/heritage/museum.htm); so I'll post the link to the museum's owners' site:

German-Canadian History and Culture (http://www.german-canadian.ca/)

Rollon
Monday, February 7th, 2005, 07:01 PM
Mennonites are a religious community mainly settled in the United States and Canada. Most of them people are from German, Swiss and Dutch descent. Here is a link about them, their history, their beliefs... :

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/mennonites.html

The Amish are a branch of the Mennonites. They all live in the State of Pennsylvania, in the so-called Pennsylvania Dutch Country (Dutch, here, stands for Deutsch, actually). They speak a German dialect still spoken in Alsace. It is due to the fact that their founder, Jacob Amman, was from Alsace.

Find more about the Amish here :

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml

Fraxinus Excelsior
Monday, February 7th, 2005, 07:14 PM
Mennonites are a religious community mainly settled in the United States and Canada. Most of them people are from German, Swiss and Dutch descent. Here is a link about them, their history, their beliefs... :

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/mennonites.html

The Amish are a branch of the Mennonites. They all live in the State of Pennsylvania, in the so-called Pennsylvania Dutch Country (Dutch, here, stands for Deutsch, actually). They speak a German dialect still spoken in Alsace. It is due to the fact that their founder, Jacob Amman, was from Alsace.

Find more about the Amish here :

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml If you are interested in the subject of Mennonites in the USA, you might like this thread (The Swiss Mennonite Cultural and Historical Association (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=22506)) we had on them a couple of months ago.

:prost

Rollon
Monday, February 7th, 2005, 07:49 PM
If you are interested in the subject of Mennonites in the USA, you might like this thread (The Swiss Mennonite Cultural and Historical Association (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=22506)) we had on them a couple of months ago.

Great thread. :thumbup

I'll post the following here, since that's where I started. Ingrid Rimland wrote a fiction trilogy about the Mennonite experience in Germany, Russia and the United States ; it is called 'Lebensraum'. I guess one could call it the Saga of the Mennonites.

As Ingrid Rimland is Ernst Zündel's wife, you can purchase her book at :

http://www.zundelsite.org (http://www.zundelsite.org/)

Fraxinus Excelsior
Monday, February 7th, 2005, 08:05 PM
Great thread. :thumbupThank you. :tthumbsup


I'll post the following here, since that's where I started. Ingrid Rimland wrote a fiction trilogy about the Mennonite experience in Germany, Russia and the United States; it is called 'Lebensraum'. I guess one could call it the Saga of the Mennonites.

As Ingrid Rimland is Ernst Zündel's wife, you can purchase her book at :

http://www.zundelsite.org (http://www.zundelsite.org/) Sounds interesting. Does it include the time spent by the Mennonites in the Netherlands?

Rollon
Tuesday, February 8th, 2005, 06:11 PM
Sounds interesting. Does it include the time spent by the Mennonites in the Netherlands? I'm not sure. I think it's about a German Mennonite family and their migrations, through several generations. I've still got to read it myself. :)

Appalachian
Wednesday, February 16th, 2005, 11:56 PM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=31211&stc=1

http://www.germanna.net/
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~george/ (http://homepages.rootsweb.com/%7Egeorge/)
http://gcclearn.gcc.cc.va.us/sitehistory/
http://www.germanna.org/
http://www.germanna.com/
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaculpep/culp.htm (http://www.rootsweb.com/%7Evaculpep/culp.htm)
http://www.virginia.org/site/features.asp?FeatureID=218

Draco
Monday, February 28th, 2005, 07:30 PM
I sure didn't!



In 1987 Congress enacted Public Law 100-104 designating October 6 as German-American Day. A proclamation was issued by President Reagan in a Rose Garden Ceremony calling on the American people to observe this day with appropriate celebrations and activities. The date was chosen because on October 6, 1683 the first group of Germans sailed into Philadelphia Harbor on the Concord. Individually Germans had arrived before that date.
Whoa! No stamps, parades, or "365 German" ads from McDonalds, and this is the first time I'd heard of this holiday...since, well...ever.

A fairly pitiful and ignored token gesture to the one of the most numerous and influential etnic groups in American history.

Fraxinus Excelsior
Monday, February 28th, 2005, 08:05 PM
I sure didn't!

Whoa! No stamps, parades, or "365 German" ads from McDonalds, and this is the first time I'd heard of this holiday...since, well...ever.

A fairly pitiful and ignored token gesture to the one of the most numerous and influential etnic groups in American history.I only found out about German-American Day last October, but a week or two after the 6th. Actually, I think I first read about it in a thread on Skadi.

It definitely wasn't mentioned in the national media; and, since I live in Atlanta (the former site of Freaknik), I will never hear mention of German-American Day in the local news here.

Appalachian
Friday, August 19th, 2005, 02:48 PM
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9092/germanyvalley3tu.jpg


The first view most travelers see of Germany Valley is from the scenic turn-off at the historical marker on U.S. Rt. 33 near the top of North Fork Mountain. The lush rolling fields far below, broken by scattered woodlands, neat farm buildings, and scattered hills and knobs, arouse the traveler's interest about this high mountain valley and its history.


The North Fork of the South Branch of the Potomac River in present-day Pendleton County was settled largely by Germans. The first family to arrive in the valley were the Hinkles, who migrated from North Carolina in 1761. John Jacob and Maria Magdelena Hinkle, with their 12 children and their families, came to what is now known as Germany Valley, hoping to find inexpensive agricultural land in an area free from hostile Indian attacks. They were also attracted to this locality by the fertile limestone soils and gently rolling topography of the valley's bottomland. The Hinkles were quickly joined by the Teters and other German (Pennsylvania Dutch) families, some having migrated southwest following the ridges and valleys from Pennsylvania's Lebanon and Lancaster counties. In addition, a few German families moved west from Spottsylvania County, Virginia. These settlers brought the custom of placing hex signs on their barns. I have been told that this was the only section of the state where hex signs could be found at an early date on farm buildings.

Since these families preserved their language and Old World customs and because the topography and climate reminded them of their ancestral home, this valley became known as German Settlement or Germany Valley. During this same period, many Scotch-Irish families also migrated into Pendleton County from the Valley of Virginia, and some of them bought land in Germany Valley.

Germany Valley was criss-crossed by the famous Seneca Trail. Nearby Fort Seybert and Fort Upper Tract had been destroyed in Indian uprisings led by Killbuck, a Shawnee chieftain, in 1758. During 1762, to protect border settlements from Indian raids, the Hinkles built a stockade fort, aptly named Hinkle's Fort.


Today Hinkle's Fort no longer stands, but its site is marked by a large stone monument in the shape of an arrowhead which is enclosed by an iron fence. The site is located along the valley road leading east from Riverton.

From the beginning, the economy of valley farms was based on forage crops and raising cattle, horses, milk cows, and sheep. The rich limestone soils and rolling farmland proved ideal to support a prosperous farm community. Poor roads and lack of turnpikes, however, made it difficult to reach markets in adjacent areas; thus, many farms became largely self-sufficient and settlers self-reliant and resourceful.

During the Civil War, Pendleton County was a border area protected by neither Federal troops nor the Confederacy. Although areas around Seneca Rocks and the lower South Branch Valley were northern in sympathy, the upper North Fork, Germany Valley, and Franklin areas were strongly Confederate. Such divided counties, then so numerous in central West Virginia, were fragmented by internal strife, hardship, and uncertainty. Border county wars between partisan groups were continuous, and often county government ceased to operate effectively.


Many Germany Valley men joined partisan units such as the Pendleton Scouts, Pendleton Rifles, and Dixie Boys, which fought for the Confederacy. In the northern parts of the county, the Swamp Dragons or ÒSwampsÓ were staunch defenders of the Union. Clashes between these units were common and bitter, with members of the same families often belonging to units with different political loyalties. Raids by Union army units and Union partisans such as the Swamps were common in the valley.
Read the rest @ http://www.wonderfulwv.com/archives/sept00/fea2.cfm

QuietWind
Friday, August 19th, 2005, 03:45 PM
This is the history of where I live:

http://www.nbcham.org/history.htm

http://www.princesolmsinn.com/nbhistory.htm

April Gaede
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 06:42 PM
Great thread. :thumbup

I'll post the following here, since that's where I started. Ingrid Rimland wrote a fiction trilogy about the Mennonite experience in Germany, Russia and the United States ; it is called 'Lebensraum'. I guess one could call it the Saga of the Mennonites.

As Ingrid Rimland is Ernst Zündel's wife, you can purchase her book at :

http://www.zundelsite.org (http://www.zundelsite.org/)

Ingrid also wrote "The Wanderers" which is also about the Volga Deutsche which is the name given to these German Mennonites.

The background of the Volga Detusche/Mennonites/ Germans from Russia, is interesting. I know a little about it since I am also a German from Russia descendent and so is my husband.

They seem to have origionated in the Neatherlands, since they were pacifists they refused to allow their sons to enter the military so they often had to move to avoid this. They were excellent farmers and were used to clear swamps and farm inhospitable areas. That is why alot of their names refelct their jobs, Neufeldt ( new field", my husband's family) Gade ( , "street" my family) etc.

They moved into the Ukraine area and then Catherine the Great offered them free land and automony to come and farm the harsh Volga river area. They immigrated in mass and formed villages in which they retained their religion, language and didnt marry outside of thier group for menay generations. You can see obvious evidence of this now in the very similar features of all the " Volga Deutsche" in this area ( California Central Valley).

When Catherine's grandson decided they need to join the military many sold thier farms and migrated to America, Canada and South America. The story of their migration is the story that Ingrid tells in her books. My family moved to the midwest and my husband's family moved to Canada.

When the Bolschevik revolution broke out the Germans were targeted because they had become prosperous kulaks ( farmers) and many were slaughtered or shipped to Siberia for worshipping the bible. SOme joined the retreating German army and went back to Germany. Some remained and survived in what became Soviet Russia.

There is an American Historical Society of Germans from Russia in the US and it has chapters and museums all over the US.

April Gaede

Rollon
Sunday, September 11th, 2005, 05:22 PM
Very interesting, April Gaede.

Mennonites have come to the US since the 19th century. A lot of them went to the Great Plains and to the North-Western States, such as Oregon and Washington State. Otherwise, the so-called Dutch County in Pennsylvania is also populated with Mennonites and Amish (The Amish sell their products on a market place in Philadelphia).

Cole Nidray
Wednesday, October 5th, 2005, 05:46 PM
It's tomorrow. :) :thumbup

How are you going to celebrate?

Here are some resources,

http://www.sigrdrifa.net/gad.shtml

news article (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051002/LIVING/510020348/1007)

In the 2004 census, nearly 43 million Americans listed German as their primary ancestry, about 1.4 million Americans speak German at home, and about 38 percent of Indiana's populace is of German descent.

Past President Bush announcements of German-American Day.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...011005-15.html (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/20011005-15.html)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0021005-4.html (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021005-4.html)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...031003-11.html (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031003-11.html)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...041006-17.html (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...041006-17.html)

Esther_Helena
Wednesday, October 5th, 2005, 06:18 PM
I didn't even know such a thing existed. I'll have to look into it.
My hometown has a sort of Oktoberfest though. :D I've never been able to attend. Stupid college.

QuietWind
Wednesday, October 5th, 2005, 08:48 PM
Gosh, we dedicate an entire month as Black Heritage month, yet German-Americans only get one day? :-O Honestly, I have never known about nor celebrated this day. Considering that our heritage is a part of our life, it would seem silly to suddenly say to our kids, "Hey, it's German-American day, let's have the same food we always eat, and do the same things we always do, because today we are special. :)" They would probably look at me like we are nuts. When you "celebrate" a part of your life on a regular basis because it is part of who you are and your heritage, it is silly to suddenly have a holiday in honor of it. What makes tomorrow, German-American day, any different than any other day of our lives? :shrug The only difference is that the President has declared that it is the one day we are actually allowed to be proud of our heritage? The difference is that tomorrow is the one day that non German-Americans will be forced in schools to acknowledge the good of the German people and then the day after they can go back to their anti-German, anti-hitler, anti-halocaust rhetoric that they spew out the remainder of the year? No offense, but those of us who are proud German-Americans do not need a holiday in order to know who we are or where we come from. We don't need someone to tell us, "thanks for what you have done throughout history and for America, here is your one day as reward." It's more of an insult than an appreciation.

Cole Nidray
Wednesday, October 5th, 2005, 09:31 PM
I agree Jennifer, that's a real good post.

I was curious how anyone celebrates this day in part because I could not think of what to do differently! :D

It is surreal that the Africans have an entire month isn't it? This is quite depressing. :thumbdown

Glory
Wednesday, October 5th, 2005, 10:25 PM
Hispanics now have a month and jews have a week.:thumbdown

Esther_Helena
Thursday, October 6th, 2005, 08:25 AM
I'm only german via ancestry. As far as I can tell we hold no German traditions... :~( So I have no clue what I'm going to do for tomorrow.

Cole Nidray
Thursday, October 6th, 2005, 08:27 AM
I'm only german via ancestry. As far as I can tell we hold no German traditions... :~( So I have no clue what I'm going to do for tomorrow.
Tell people about Skadi.net! :)

Esther_Helena
Thursday, October 6th, 2005, 09:05 AM
Tell people about Skadi.net! :)

I don't think that'd go over too well here. I'm in what is essentially, multi-culti land. Colleges do that, they bring in people from aaaaalllll over. Which is fine, but well... all things have their drawbacks. I'm going to try to at least wear the colors of the German flag. Not much, but I gotta start somewhere. I'd try cooking something, but a.) I murder poptarts and b.) I don't have much to work with.

Dago
Friday, December 2nd, 2005, 06:23 AM
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/german.gif

1990 Census map of German Ancestry.

Also came across this article.


German Ancestry Leads in U.S.
Other large groups include Irish, African-Americans, English and Mexican


June 30, 2004 – If your ancestors were German, then you are a member of the largest ancestry group in the U.S., according to the Census 2000, that reports nearly 43 million Americans claim German ancestry.

About 1-in-6 U.S. residents identified their ancestry as German, ahead of Irish (30.5 million), African-American (24.9 million), English (24.5 million) and Mexican (18.4 million), according to the report released today by the Census Bureau.

The report is based on Census 2000. More recent information on ancestry for selected geographies is available from the 2002 American Community Survey (ACS) tabulations at http://www.census.gov/acs/www/.

The report, Ancestry: 2000, includes ancestry data for groups with 100,000 or more people at the national level, as well as changes since 1990. In addition to national-level results, the report lists the five largest ancestries at the regional and state levels and the single largest ancestry in the 10 largest U.S. cities. A thematic map provides a representation of the largest ancestry groups across all counties.

The data contained in the report are based on responses from a sample of households who received the census long form. Nationally, about 1-in-6 households were included in the sample in Census 2000. The data are subject to sampling and nonsampling errors.

The Census Bureau cautions the public not to confuse these Census 2000 sample estimates with estimates from the ACS. At times, estimates from these sources may differ because of different program goals, survey concepts, data processing and estimation methods. For further information, see http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2000/doc/sf3.pdf for Census 2000 sample data and http://www.census.gov/acs/www/ for ACS data.

The full report can be accessed at http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs.html.
[/quote]

Appalachian
Sunday, December 4th, 2005, 07:10 AM
If your ancestors were German, then you are a member of the largest ancestry group in the U.S., according to the Census 2000, that reports nearly 43 million Americans claim German ancestry.]



Persons of British ancestry are still the largest ancestry group in the US.


57.6 million Americans responding to the 2000 census reported that they are of a British ancestry group.

24.5 million English
20.6 million American
4.9 million Scottish
4.3 million Scotch-Irish (Ulster)
1.7 million Welsh
1 million British (answered "British" as ancestry on the Census)
600,000 Canadian

Garda de Fier
Sunday, December 4th, 2005, 09:14 AM
Good day!

I often ask myself why Americans of German origin tend to forget their language so quickly... Many Germans seem to believe that learning English is to be bought only by forgetting their German?

QuietWind
Sunday, December 4th, 2005, 06:52 PM
Good day!

I often ask myself why Americans of German origin tend to forget their language so quickly... Many Germans seem to believe that learning English is to be bought only by forgetting their German?

It wasn't just Germans who "forgot their language." I once read a story about a Swedish family who came to the U.S. and how important it was that they learn English. It was actually looked down upon for them to NOT speak English, and they pushed the learning of English on their children. It had to do with things such as blending in, getting jobs, and trying not to appear as if they were foreigners. It also was not necessarily a labguage issue. Many Germans who came to the U.S. also were subjected to a change in the spelling of their last names. There also were periods in U.S. history where there was a strong anti-German sentiment. Maybe someone else can give you more specifics on these things I am throwing out. I am not making excuses, just trying to demonstrate how historically, maintaining "germaness" was not such an easy thing for German-Americans.

There are many places in the US where German was not forgotten. You can still find newspapers in German in some places.

On a personal note, my ancestors did not keep up with speaking German. I do nto know the reasons for this. I do know that out last name was one of those that had been changed (not by their choice) and then my ancestors chose to legally change it back. My ancestors have been here since the late 1800's. I only know the story about one of my ancestors that came over. It is quite a sad story. He lived in Germany, married, and served in the German military. His wife and children died, so he came to America. It must have been difficult for him to stay in Germany with all the memories of his wife and children, of him to feel the need to run all the way to America to escape. After coming to America, he worked for some time, bough a farm and all, and eventually married a German-American woman. They had kids, and several generations later here I am. :P

I found a very good link about Germans in America. It talks about different reasons that they came here, and even touches on (a small bit) the issues regarding language.

http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/culture/ger_americans/paper.html

Wayfarer
Sunday, December 4th, 2005, 07:08 PM
I was looking through the different regions of America on Wikipedia earlier on today and came across the Missouri Rhineland, i think it fits in this thread. It seems connected with Winery.


The Missouri Rhineland is a geographical area of Missouri from west of Saint Louis and slightly east of Jefferson City located mostly in the Missouri River valley.

Settlements date to 1801. Dutzow, the first German permanent settlement in Missouri, was founded by Baron Von Bock in 1832

Naturalist Gottfried Duden, a German attorney, settled on the North side of the Missouri river along Lake Creek in 1824. He was investigating the possibilities of settlement in the area by his countrymen. In 1827 he returned to Germany which he felt was overpopulated. There he published a glowing “Eine Reise zu den westlichen Staaten von Nordamerika (A Journey to the Western states of North America)” in 1829.

German settlers led by Friedrich Muench and Paul Follenius of the Giessen Emigration Society arrived in the area in 1834.

In 1836 the German Settlement Society began to look for a place to build a German community insulated from the increasing diversity of nationalities found in many American settlements. They choose to settle in Hermann and the first settlers arrived in 1837.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Rhineland

http://www.gallagherstravels.com/States/MO/rhineland/
http://www.blumenhof.com/dutzow.htm
http://washmohistorical.org/history_of_washington.htm

Vestmannr
Sunday, December 4th, 2005, 09:59 PM
57.6 million Americans responding to the 2000 census reported that they are of a British ancestry group.


If we look at the ACS 2003 tabular profiles, and make a general categories: Insular European has 94,872,126 from primarily English-speaking ancestors (along with Celtic), Northern European has 65,563,826 from primarily Germanic-origins (along with Hungarian), Southern European has 29,941,076 from Romance-speaking origins, Eastern European has 17,334,464 of primarily Slavic-speaking origins (along with Baltic and Greek). That leaves 75,198,393 of 'Other' origins: just a little over a quarter of the total compared to the 207,711,492 of European origin.

(Other including the Anglicized 'Blacks', Latinized 'South/Central Americans', Asians/Middle Easterners - many 'Colonialized', and the 4,013,653 million of 'Subsaharan African/West Indian' immigrants - also 'Colonialized' (ie, 'Europeanized' in language/culture and often religion.)

Which means that while roughly less than 1/3rd of Americans of European origin are of 'Germanic-speaking' ancestry (Central/Northern/Low Country Europe), almost 1/2 are of Anglo-Celtic ancestry - leaving about 1/12th of Eastern ancestry, and less than 1/7th of Romantic-speaking ancestry (many of those being of 'Germanic' ancestry.) If we count the Romance and Germanic speakers together we get a little bit over the Anglo-Celts: so one might at best argue that America is roughly as 'Continental' Western European as it is Anglo-Celtic: except that those 95+ million of Romance/Germanic speaking ancestry are in the great majority Anglicized in language and culture (and have 'Insular' ancestry as well.) Of course, like I said - I think there is a common 'Germanic' ancestry that is the majority still in the Romance-speaking countries, as well as in Britain and the Isles (even Ireland is as 'Norse' as it is Celtic.) Maybe 'Germanic' North America then - but 'German' North America would pretty much mean the Upper Mid-West and some smaller areas (Texas Hill Country, Pennsylvania Dutch...)

Which is to say; it doesn't lessen the contribution of Germans proper to American society: our educational system, military, food culture as it relates to beer, meat, and bread is nearly *entirely* German (really, Prussian.)

Loge
Wednesday, December 14th, 2005, 04:16 AM
A lot of scandinavians moved into North Dakota and Minnesota in 1800's. The reason for this is because the in the Norweigan farmer family the first born got everything, the younger symblings didn't get anything. Norway isn't the best place for farming so they decided that the northern states states of the us would probably be the best. My last name Loge is apparently a Norweigan farming term for a hill or valley used in southwest Norway.

Æmeric
Wednesday, December 14th, 2005, 03:26 PM
If we look at the ACS 2003 tabular profiles, and make a general categories: Insular European has 94,872,126 from primarily English-speaking ancestors (along with Celtic), Northern European has 65,563,826 from primarily Germanic-origins (along with Hungarian), Southern European has 29,941,076 from Romance-speaking origins, Eastern European has 17,334,464 of primarily Slavic-speaking origins (along with Baltic and Greek). That leaves 75,198,393 of 'Other' origins: just a little over a quarter of the total compared to the 207,711,492 of European origin.

(Other including the Anglicized 'Blacks', Latinized 'South/Central Americans', Asians/Middle Easterners - many 'Colonialized', and the 4,013,653 million of 'Subsaharan African/West Indian' immigrants - also 'Colonialized' (ie, 'Europeanized' in language/culture and often religion.)

Which means that while roughly less than 1/3rd of Americans of European origin are of 'Germanic-speaking' ancestry (Central/Northern/Low Country Europe), almost 1/2 are of Anglo-Celtic ancestry - leaving about 1/12th of Eastern ancestry, and less than 1/7th of Romantic-speaking ancestry (many of those being of 'Germanic' ancestry.) If we count the Romance and Germanic speakers together we get a little bit over the Anglo-Celts: so one might at best argue that America is roughly as 'Continental' Western European as it is Anglo-Celtic: except that those 95+ million of Romance/Germanic speaking ancestry are in the great majority Anglicized in language and culture (and have 'Insular' ancestry as well.) Of course, like I said - I think there is a common 'Germanic' ancestry that is the majority still in the Romance-speaking countries, as well as in Britain and the Isles (even Ireland is as 'Norse' as it is Celtic.) Maybe 'Germanic' North America then - but 'German' North America would pretty much mean the Upper Mid-West and some smaller areas (Texas Hill Country, Pennsylvania Dutch...)

Which is to say; it doesn't lessen the contribution of Germans proper to American society: our educational system, military, food culture as it relates to beer, meat, and bread is nearly *entirely* German (really, Prussian.)
Many persons check more then one ancestry on the census forms. Some of your totals are probably double counts. 42.8 Americans claim German Ancestry, but this dose not mean they are all 100% German. I'm part German but only about 1/6, the remainder being most English & Scottish. Because in America ethnicity is thought of by many persons as being other than English/Anglo-Saxon, many persons of predominately English descent may claim their minority heritage of German or French but not their majority English heritage. About 45 million Americans did not claim any ethnicity in 2000. Some of these were probably negroes who equated the race part of the form with their ethnicity. But the majority were probably White Americans of predominately founder stock, that is colonial era British settlers. When the United States became independent the White Population was about 2.5 million. 50% were English, 30% other British, "mostly Scottish/Ulster Scots", 20% other European (Palatine German, Huguenot, Swiss, Dutch,Scandinavian). Most lived on farms and very large families were the norm. If there had been zero immigration after independence the White population of America today would be 120 Million. (This is from "Alien Nation" by Peter Brimelow. I believe he got the figures from the Census Bureau.) The German contribution to the White American gene pool is important but not as great as the British Contribution and in many cases they have blended together into what I call Anglo-German.

Vestmannr
Saturday, December 17th, 2005, 07:52 PM
From what I understand, the ACS and Census both use the rule of reporting either primary or 'first listed' ancestral origin/ethnicity. So, while there might admittedly be flaws in their method - they aren't exactly trying to track what some of us are farming their data for (ie their data is collected primarily as a function of multiculturalist litigation - and for 'public planning' of government services.) I do remember, especially in the German MidWest, running into the mentality whereby people of German surname, German looks, and German American culture call themselves racially "Anglo-Saxons" (used interchangeably with 'White'.) I've always found that one amusing - especially if they are actually descended from the folk of Saxony (English speaking Saxons - thus 'Anglo-Saxons' without ever living in Britain!)

Thumelicus
Tuesday, December 20th, 2005, 11:16 PM
When you comment about Germans losing their language in the USA, you are actually reflecting on a kind of genocide. This was in no way a voluntary act, I came from very recent (post-war) immigrants and I still speak German- despite the fact that I was deprived of any instruction in German composition, literature, history, and culture by an inferior system of public education that was designed to destroy me. It was strictly by my parents' initiative and my own that I learned what German I know.

So don't make these glib comments unless you are prepared to hear the truth. You "white Americans", "Anglo-Saxons" who instigated the cultural destruction of the German minority here in the USA- in full collaboration with your Jewish friends. Your precious "white" race in America is being ruined by the same forces that were used against us. Yet here I see the same anti-German attitudes being perpetuated by alleged "racial preservationists".

Why shouldn't we postwar immigrants simply return to Germany and leave you "Americans" to your fate? We owe you nothing. My only concern is for the earlier generations of my people who had the misfortune of being trapped here. One day we'll see them returned to Germany as well.

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 01:30 AM
If you wish to obtain German citizenship, you must be a German national. The German laws determining who is a German national by birth are rather complex. Here they are in English:

http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/consular_services/citizenship/generalinformation.html (http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/consular_services/citizenship/generalinformation.html)

If you qualify under any of these provisions, locate copies of the necessary documents (usually your birth certificate, copy of passport or proof of German citizenship of either or one of your parents if you were born after 1/1/1975, and your parents' marriage license) and fill out this form:

http://www.bva.bund.de/imperia/md/content/abteilungen/abteilungiii/40.pdf (http://www.bva.bund.de/imperia/md/content/abteilungen/abteilungiii/40.pdf)

When you fill out forms for overseas use, all English language certificates, etc. must be officially translated.

Mail this to:

Bundesverwaltungsamt
Referat III 1
D 50728 Köln

(address is on the form)

Very important: just because you were born in the USA, you aren't stripped of foreign citizenships that you inherit by right of parentage (called jus sanguinis or "law of blood"). That means that if you fall under the law, even if you do nothing you can claim German citizenship at any point in your life... unless you unwittingly renounced it by joining the US military or renounced in a public declaration. Anyway, I urge people interested in such matters to read the law.

Appalachian
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 03:56 AM
Why shouldn't we postwar immigrants simply return to Germany and leave you "Americans" to your fate? We owe you nothing.



Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

The assimilation of Germans into the American ethne wasn't "genocide;" it was the opposite of multiculturalism. Anyone who preaches the notion that Anglo-America must give ground for German culture is simply preaching such multiculturalism.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people here will rail against multiculturalism and then turn right around and insist on using it for themselves.

Germany for the Germans. America for the Americans.

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 04:40 AM
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

You're only hastening your country's racial destruction. Who replaces me? At least I speak English. Really this "love it or leave it" guff fails to hold water anymore. You need all the whites you can lay your hands on.


The assimilation of Germans into the American ethne wasn't "genocide;" it was the opposite of multiculturalism.

It was as genocidal as race-mixing is today. Supposedly this board is dedicated towards the preservation of Germanic culture. Every single German community had it's own dialect, it's own culture... unique to North America... wiped out by the Anglo-Americans.


Anyone who preaches the notion that Anglo-America must give ground for German culture is simply preaching such multiculturalism.

I agree, I don't want to infringe on your culturally backwards, anti-German country. I'll leave that to the Mexicans. Germans in America should re-Germanize and return to Germany en masse. They aren't appreciated in the USA.

I and others like me –even first generation Germans- would lobby among our people in Germany for their acceptance, we would be a community of German people again.


Germany for the Germans. America for the Americans.

Germany for Germanics, America for the miscegenated.

NewYorker
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 04:44 AM
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

The assimilation of Germans into the American ethne wasn't "genocide;" it was the opposite of multiculturalism. Anyone who preaches the notion that Anglo-America must give ground for German culture is simply preaching such multiculturalism.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people here will rail against multiculturalism and then turn right around and insist on using it for themselves.

Germany for the Germans. America for the Americans.

I don't think one could logically call it genocide unless the Morgenthau plan was implementated simultaneously within Germany (Europe) itself. To my knowledge it was drafted but never actually implemented. Therefore the cry of "genocide" is mere illogical hyperbole and nothing more.

Also, AFAIK there are enclaves in some places within the South American continent that speak German as their primary language socially and Spanish as their secondary language.

Appalachian
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 04:53 AM
Just so you know, making your posts in boldfaced type and of a large size doesn't make your arguments any more effective.


You're only hastening your country's racial destruction. Who replaces me?

It's not really an issue, since people who think like you do are in a tiny, tiny minority. :)


Really this "love it or leave it" guff fails to hold water anymore.

I'm not really saying you have to "love it or leave it;" I'm just saying that you should stop acting like a Mexican or a hyphenated-American playing identity politics, accept that you live in an English speaking country, roll up your sleeves, go to work, and move on with your life.

Besides, you are the one who said you wanted to leave. Surely you don't expect me to beg someone who hates the place so much to stick around?


It was as genocidal as race-mixing is today. Supposedly this board is dedicated towards the preservation of Germanic culture. Every single German community had it's own dialect, it's own culture... unique to North America... wiped out by the Anglo-Americans. [/SIZE][/FONT]

It's not like anyone came in with guns drawn and forced people to speak English. :oanieyes


I agree, I don't want to infringe on your culturally backwards, anti-German country.


It's not that the country is anti-German, it's just that back when Germans were coming here en masse, it was expected that people assimilate.


Germans in America should re-Germanize and return to Germany en masse. They aren't appreciated in the USA.

They're not appreciated in Germany, either, from what I've been told (http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=1017). ;)



I and others like me –even first generation Germans- would lobby among our people in Germany for their acceptance,

Good luck.


we would be a community of German people again.

Most Americans of German descent are quite satisfied with being Americans, I'm sure, present company excepted.

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 05:00 AM
I don't think one could logically call it genocide

Of course you wouldn't, you're "neutral". At least people who are openly anti-German have some courage. Happy Chanukah, by the way.


unless the Morgenthau plan was implementated simultaneously within Germany

You mean all those people starved to death purely from Allied incompetence?

Appalachian
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 05:04 AM
At least people who are openly anti-German have some courage.


I hope you're not insinuating that I'm "anti-German," because I'm not. It's just that I feel that if you come to live in our country, you should live by our rules and speak our language. I would certainly expect to do the same were I to go and live in Germany.

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 05:59 AM
It's not really an issue, since people who think like you do are in a tiny, tiny minority.

People who think like I do may not necessarily express themselves openly.


I'm not really saying you have to "love it or leave it;" I'm just saying that you should stop acting like a Mexican or a hyphenated-American playing identity politics, accept that you live in an English speaking country, roll up your sleeves, go to work, and move on with your life.

This makes no sense, how can I play identity politics if I'm a tiny minority?

Even still, it's very low to compare me to a Mexican and insinuate that I don't work for a living. First you tell me "love it or leave it", now you tell me "get a job"? What's the next desultory cliche you'll use, I wonder. I don't make any territorial claims against the USA. I don't want a piece of your country. I'm simply saying that your land, your people, your outlook, your government, and your system is basically anti-German. Your history is anti-German. Based simply on this fact, I'm saying that people who want to remain culturally German and preserve their Germanic ancestry are better off leaving the USA. Would a Mexican say this?

You know for a fact that most Mexicans make no distinction between either of us. I can't see why you aren't willing to tolerate a small minority of German speakers who keep to themselves versus many millions of dark-skinned Hispanics who want to force you to learn their language. Why compare us to them?



It's not like anyone came in with guns drawn and forced people to speak English.


Sometimes anti-German sentiment in the USA became very violent. Once there were thriving communities of Germans, linguistically and culturally intact, that coexisted peacefully with Anglo-Americans... but you simply couldn't abide that.



It's not that the country is anti-German, it's just that back when Germans were coming here en masse, it was expected that people assimilate.


Now it isn't, so don't expect me to assimilate either. Why on earth would I even want to? Not only is your culture inferior to mine, but you hate Germans. You've always hated Germans. I mention the fact of my Germanness to an American at my own peril.


They're not appreciated in Germany, either

Well, at least you admit now that you don't appreciate them. I don't understand you at all, if you have such contempt for Germans why wouldn't you simply agree with me? I'd think that you would like the idea of them leaving.


Most Americans of German descent are quite satisfied with being Americans, I'm sure, present company excepted.

First of all, I'm only German. There isn't a part of me that's American, your people have never treated me as anything other than an enemy and I completely reject your horrible country. Secondly, the only reason why they're "satisfied" is because no one has ever presented them with a viable alternative. Plenty of people go back, I do it myself all the time.

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 06:14 AM
I hope you're not insinuating that I'm "anti-German," because I'm not. It's just that I feel that if you come to live in our country, you should live by our rules and speak our language. I would certainly expect to do the same were I to go and live in Germany.

If you were to carefully re-examine what I'm saying, you would realize that I am doing just that. Furthermore, what you want and what I want are not mutually exclusive. You want German-speakers and those who want to preserve their German culture and heritage out of your country, and I want my people to return home.

Appalachian
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 06:20 AM
People who think like I do may not necessarily express themselves openly.

If lots of people thought like you do, we'd see a large-scale attempt at back-migration to Europe. We don't.


This makes no sense, how can I play identity politics if I'm a tiny minority?

What really puts you in the minority is your silly dream of a mass migration of Americans back to Europe. You're playing identity politics by demanding that 'German-Americans' or Germans in America or whatever advocate for a separate status distinct from their fellow Americans.




Even still, it's very low to compare me to a Mexican and insinuate that I don't work for a living. First you tell me "love it or leave it", now you tell me "get a job"?

I didn't say either of those things. But you are acting like a Mexican or some other brand of spoiled immigrant who has been so coddled by the state's mandated multiculturalism that you haven't yet been put in your place.

Granted, it's nothing new...

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6756/stir2ed.jpg


I don't make any territorial claims against the USA. I don't want a piece of your country. I'm simply saying that your land, your people, your outlook, your government, and your system is basically anti-German. Your history is anti-German. Based simply on this fact, I'm saying that people who want to remain culturally German and preserve their Germanic ancestry are better off leaving the USA. Would a Mexican say this?

No, it would all be the same except for the part about leaving. They just want to take over.


You know for a fact that most Mexicans make no distinction between either of us. I can't see why you aren't willing to tolerate a small minority of German speakers who keep to themselves versus many millions of dark-skinned Hispanics who want to force you to learn their language. Why compare us to them?

I don't, really. The Amish of Ohio and the Pennsylvania Dutch are fine people and good Americans. They may speak dialects of German in the home and maintain their folkways, but they also aren't out agitating for a return to Europe or railing about some mythical oppression at the hands of the Anglo-Saxon race.

I drew the comparison because your silly diatribe sounded like a La Raza press release.


Sometimes anti-German sentiment in the USA became very violent. Once there were thriving communities of Germans, linguistically and culturally intact, that coexisted peacefully with Anglo-Americans... but you simply couldn't abide that.

The aforementioned communities in Ohio and Pennsylvania are still intact, and they have been here for a very long time. I believe it's still possible to find other ethnic islands in the Midwest. Of course, these people are working hard and making lives for themselves instead of trolling the internut with sticks up their rears about the horrible Anglos keeping them down. :oanieyes


Now it isn't, so don't expect me to assimilate either. Why on earth would I even want to? Not only is your culture inferior to mine, but you hate Germans. You've always hated Germans. I mention the fact of my Germanness to an American at my own peril.

What are you smoking?




Well, at least you admit now that you don't appreciate them. I don't understand you at all, if you have such contempt for Germans why wouldn't you simply agree with me? I'd think that you would like the idea of them leaving.

If that were the case, I wouldn't have married one and brought her here. ;)


First of all, I'm only German. There isn't a part of me that's American, your people have never treated me as anything other than an enemy and I completely reject your horrible country.

Yeah, I'm sure people really just spit in your eye when they hear your last name. You must live in constant fear for your life. :oanieyes

Appalachian
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 06:27 AM
You want German-speakers and those who want to preserve their German culture and heritage out of your country


No, I want idiots who rail on and on about how the evil Anglo-Saxons are keeping them down to get out of the country, no matter their race or origin.

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 09:21 AM
No, I want idiots who rail on and on about how the evil Anglo-Saxons are keeping them down to get out of the country, no matter their race or origin.

This is silly. Racially I'm probably closer to the "Anglo-Saxons" than you are.

I never claimed that anyone is "keeping me down", what a transparent attempt to color my words. You have no idea of what I do, how much I earn, or where I reside. It's pure conjecture on your part. What I said is that your country is anti-German. I learned to get around this simply by not discussing my heritage with anyone. This is actually much worse than if my viewpoint were simply unpopular but tolerated... and why not? I come from a Germanic culture. You should let us coexist. Yet you refuse to view this matter objectively.

But anyway, again you start with the "love it or leave it" garbage. It seems to be your favorite line. No wonder things are so dire in in the USA, you tell all of your critics to leave...


What really puts you in the minority is your silly dream of a mass migration of Americans back to Europe.

No, it could never happen like that. Only people like myself can return under the present law, and we'd have to convince them to change it before we could get older generations back in. Like you said, "good luck".

Do you think I would even be interested in doing this if I completely hated Americans? Obviously I view some of you as being decent enough to be worth saving.


You're playing identity politics by demanding that 'German-Americans' or Germans in America or whatever advocate for a separate status distinct from their fellow Americans.

I have a legal status different from other people who were also born in the USA, that's a simple fact of life. Your country is anti-German, I would be stupid to relinquish this status.

Beyond this point, I simply don't believe that it's possible for people who fought against this country in the last world war to have any sort of real connection to mainstream Anglo-American culture. In the USA, you regard your role in the war as a defining national moment -you are a "victor country" and the Germans are an occupied country. It's not credible that you would ask someone to forget where they came from.


I don't, really. The Amish of Ohio and the Pennsylvania Dutch are fine people and good Americans. They may speak dialects of German in the home and maintain their folkways,

Funny you should pick the Amish, who are a religious community that have segregated themselves from all aspects of modern life. Even still, ask the Amish about the pressure their young people face to leave their communities.


but they also aren't out agitating for a return to Europe

Exactly what's wrong with this? You've said so yourself, you don't even want people like me in the USA. I will always want my people to come back, if you were in my situation you would do the same.


railing about some mythical oppression at the hands of the Anglo-Saxon race.
Do you deny that Germans like your wife were put in internment camps in WW2? Do you deny that laws restricting the German language were passed in WWI? None of this is personal, you know.


I didn't say either of those things. But you are acting like a Mexican or some other brand of spoiled immigrant who has been so coddled by the state's mandated multiculturalism that you haven't yet been put in your place.

Put in my place? You can't even assimilate the Mexicans who will be your undoing. Americanism has nothing to offer anyone, it never did, and only the fear of repression and brutality could compel the Germans to give up their language and their culture. It will never happen again under a white government, my friend, and when it happens under a brown state you, the Germans, and any other person of European descent will all be in the same boat.

I'm afraid your Mayflower will be of little use to you then.


If that were the case, I wouldn't have married one and brought her here.

I don't understand you. If this is true, what could you possibly have against me? Don't you want your children to be dual citizens?

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 05:04 PM
Yeah, I'm sure people really just spit in your eye when they hear your last name. You must live in constant fear for your life.

You should read some of my earlier posts. My childhood in America taught me not to disclose my ancestry to anyone except my friends. When people ask me about my last name, I pretend to be American. The earlier generations of Germans have afforded me that ability, no one knows if I'm really a Mid-Westerner or whatever. Yes, it's very easy for me to be accepted among Americans if I choose to behave this way, but you miss the point: it's a ridiculous situation and also a fundamentally false way of existing. Anyone with a soul or some sort of spirit will eventually rebel against having to do this on a daily basis. I’m not like you, I don’t want to view Americans with contempt or derision or as some kind of enemy. I don’t want to, but you leave me no other alternative. Our fight is over, let it rest.

I owe a great debt to the Germans who came before me, and I want to help their descendants. You should be thankful that I still feel this ethnic connection; otherwise I would simply be taking advantage of your country. When you chastise me as some recalcitrant immigrant, understand that I'm simply doing as everyone else does. It's human nature. My family wouldn't tolerate me if I sported American attitudes and viewpoints, and I maintain very close ties to my relations. I'm old-fashioned in that way. A lifetime of living apart from them has made me sentimental in that respect.

Æmeric
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 05:15 PM
My childhood in America taught me not to disclose my ancestry to anyone except my friends. When people ask me about my last name, I pretend to be American.
When & where were you raised? I find it hard to believe you face prejudices because you were German unless it was the period immediately after W.W. II , or you were raised in one of the ethnic conscious ( Jewish, Polish, Italian) communities of the Northeast.

Appalachian
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 07:18 PM
This is silly. Racially I'm probably closer to the "Anglo-Saxons" than you are.

Whatever you say, chief.


I never claimed that anyone is "keeping me down", what a transparent attempt to color my words.

You're the one who's been putting words in my mouth the whole time with your stupid "love it or leave it" and "get a job" lines, neither of which came from my keyboard.


You have no idea of what I do, how much I earn, or where I reside. It's pure conjecture on your part.

I never conjectured about those things. I never even brought those things up.



What I said is that your country is anti-German. I learned to get around this simply by not discussing my heritage with anyone.

You're so utterly full of crap it's amazing. Millions of Americans identify themselves as being of German ancestry. The vast majority of the rest don't have any problem at all with those who are of German ancestry.


http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/german.gif




This is actually much worse than if my viewpoint were simply unpopular but tolerated... and why not? I come from a Germanic culture. You should let us coexist. Yet you refuse to view this matter objectively.

What are you talking about? So if a group of Americans or Englishmen wanted to go set up an English-speaking colony in Germany, demanding not only to not assimilate into German society but also full rights as German citizens, do you think it would go over well with the people or with the government?


But anyway, again you start with the "love it or leave it" garbage. It seems to be your favorite line. No wonder things are so dire in in the USA, you tell all of your critics to leave...

Once again, genius, I never said that. What I said is that those who come here only to whine and cry like babies about how America is oppressing them ought to go back to wherever they came from.

Don't you think Germans would find it annoying if an American were to go to Germany, find work, make a successful living, and still whine and cry about how Anti-American Germany is and how oppressive German society is, and how he's afraid to mention that he's an American for fear of reprisal?


Beyond this point, I simply don't believe that it's possible for people who fought against this country in the last world war to have any sort of real connection to mainstream Anglo-American culture. In the USA, you regard your role in the war as a defining national moment -you are a "victor country" and the Germans are an occupied country.

Most people don't really think about it at all. It may be a sticking point for you, but don't project your neuroses onto the rest of the country.



It's not credible that you would ask someone to forget where they came from.

No one's asking anyone to forget where they came from, but they ought not poke their hosts in the eye if they want to make themselves welcome.



Funny you should pick the Amish, who are a religious community that have segregated themselves from all aspects of modern life. Even still, ask the Amish about the pressure their young people face to leave their communities.

I live not so far from Amish country and frequently make trips there (best strawberries in the east). They have not completely segregated themselves from all aspects of modern life, and whatever pressure their young people face to leave Amish country is not due to any "brutality" or oppression at the hands of Anglo-America.


Exactly what's wrong with this? You've said so yourself, you don't even want people like me in the USA. I will always want my people to come back, if you were in my situation you would do the same.

Yeah, I don't want people like you in the US of A. The overwhelming majority of Americans with German ancestry are just fine, though.


Do you deny that Germans like your wife were put in internment camps in WW2? Do you deny that laws restricting the German language were passed in WWI? None of this is personal, you know.

Did American or British citizens have free run of Germany during wartime?


only the fear of repression and brutality could compel the Germans to give up their language and their culture.

You're off your rocker.


I'm afraid your Mayflower will be of little use to you then.

I'm a Jamestown descendant, thank you very much.


I don't understand you. If this is true, what could you possibly have against me?

Are my children going to learn to speak German? Yes.
Are they going to appreciate their German ancestry? I sure hope so.
Are we going to continue visiting Germany? So long as we're welcome.
Are they going to be Germans? Of course not. They're going to grow up right here. Their friends and neighbors and closest family will all be Americans, and so will they.


This reminds me of the way my wife gets annoyed when she meets Americans who tell her that they're "German," when they're obviously not, never having been there. It happens all the time. So judging from her experience -- in which being a German (an actual German born and raised in Germany, unlike yourself) has prompted a positive reaction from people -- I'd have to say that you're full of crap.


Don't you want your children to be dual citizens?

No. That whole dual citizenship business is just too... yiddish for my taste. One ought to pick a place to put down roots.



Here's something to think about: If you're telling the truth (I get the feeling, though, that you're someone we already know, come simply to poison the well), perhaps any negative reaction you receive from Americans is not at all due to your having German ancestry, but rather how you go about presenting it. If you behave at all in real life as you have here, it's no wonder people resent your odious presence.

Appalachian
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 07:21 PM
When & where were you raised? I find it hard to believe you face prejudices because you were German unless it was the period immediately after W.W. II , or you were raised in one of the ethnic conscious ( Jewish, Polish, Italian) communities of the Northeast.


Or if he goes around kvetching like a yid, as he has here...

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 08:06 PM
When & where were you raised? I find it hard to believe you face prejudices because you were German unless it was the period immediately after W.W. II , or you were raised in one of the ethnic conscious ( Jewish, Polish, Italian) communities of the Northeast.

What does it matter? My opinions are my own, my experiences are my own. If you believe that I'm lying then why even bother to respond? I'm amazed that you would contest that these places are not a part of American life. America is a cultural melting pot -especially in the larger cities- and always has been. No amount of patriotic re-imagining on your part can change this simple fact. Whether or not it should or shouldn't be one is beside the point in a thread titled “German North America”.

Thumelicus
Wednesday, December 21st, 2005, 09:02 PM
Don't you think Germans would find it annoying if an American were to go to Germany, find work, make a successful living, and still whine and cry about how Anti-American Germany is and how oppressive German society is, and how he's afraid to mention that he's an American for fear of reprisal?

So now it's my fault for being successful. I shouldn't have anything to "complain" about, except for the fact that people like yourself are a constant threat to me professionally and I'm forced to lie just to survive. It's amazing the different reaction that I get when I tell people that I'm an American versus when I announce to them that my parents came from Germany. I'm instantly transformed from being a "credit to my people" to becoming a competitive threat. It was that way all through school as well, which is why I am the way that I am.

I should add that most Germans I've met have respected my accomplishments and almost never spited me for them. They are, on the whole, entirely more tolerant as a people.



Most people don't really think about it at all. It may be a sticking point for you, but don't project your neuroses onto the rest of the country.


I'm rare, that doesn't make me neurotic or insane.



No one's asking anyone to forget where they came from, but they ought not poke their hosts in the eye if they want to make themselves welcome.


I'm sorry if you interpret me in this sense. I don't wish any ill towards you or your family.


This reminds me of the way my wife gets annoyed when she meets Americans who tell her that they're "German,"

My own mother is the same way. "American" is her pet insult for me. She actually dislikes your people even more than I do. She thinks you're all fundamentally dishonest. I mean, I should say that she's more forgiving in certain respects and I'm more forgiving in others. Neither of us is terribly pro-American, however.


when they're obviously not, never having been there. It happens all the time. So judging from her experience -- in which being a German

has prompted a positive reaction from people -- I'd have to say that you're full of crap.

Your wife and myself make very different claims on your society. It isn't fair to compare a competitive, ambitious male to someone's German wife. Your perspective on this subject is very limited and I might say is restricted by your own prejudices. My situation is fundamentally different from both earlier generations of Germans and also the first generation. I have no American family members and no real personal or historical connection to the USA.


(an actual German born and raised in Germany, unlike yourself)

German law recognizes persons such as myself as Germans. That's really the only opinion that matters on the subject. Everything else depends on how I present myself. I've worked very hard to lose my American accent in German. Even still, the new guy always gets treated a little rough.



No. That whole dual citizenship business is just too... yiddish for my taste. One ought to pick a place to put down roots.


Some people have that luxury, others do not. I'm saying that it isn't all bad. There are many benefits to being able to work in both Europe and America. You shouldn't close the door for your children, let them make that decision.

As for "yiddish", I admit that I'm sneaky and I hate having to be that way. Your country left me no other choice, not if I wanted to succeed. You can never control what people say about you behind your back, I learned that lesson early in life.



Here's something to think about: If you're telling the truth (I get the feeling, though, that you're someone we already know, come simply to poison the well),

I'm not poisoning the well, I'm giving you my perspective.


perhaps any negative reaction you receive from Americans is not at all due to your having German ancestry, but rather how you go about presenting it.

You have to understand that I am of such recent ancestry that certain inconvenient questions invariably emerge. I mention these facts about myself because I'm anonymous and it's safe for me to discuss them.


If you behave at all in real life as you have here, it's no wonder people resent your odious presence.

Obviously not. If I were in America and I chimed off like this at work I would quickly find myself unemployed. Give me some credit for being smarter than this.

Rhydderch
Thursday, December 22nd, 2005, 11:57 AM
I'm amazed that you would contest that these places are not a part of American life. America is a cultural melting pot -especially in the larger citiesOK, if you went into Berlin and were treated badly there (in a Polish-Turkish-Moroccan "community" ), would you feel, as a result, that the German nation had let you down, and that "Germans" didn't like you?

Thumelicus
Thursday, December 22nd, 2005, 01:56 PM
OK, if you went into Berlin and were treated badly there (in a Polish-Turkish-Moroccan "community" ), would you feel, as a result, that the German nation had let you down, and that "Germans" didn't like you?

This is an invalid comparison. I might also add that I never mentioned where I lived in America. The Anglo-Americans on this thread are being characteristically unreasonable.

All the same, of course Turks are a problem... just as they are to everyone else. My elderly grandmother was robbed by two Turkish women who forced their way into her tiny apartment. You know, I don't blame anyone for this but the Turkish community and the German government for allowing these people to remain (and the Americans for supporting the Turks no matter what they do, even when they invade other NATO members- what a sham).

I might add that Turks in both countries are a problem. I don't like them when they come to the USA either. As for the Polaks and Moroccans, this thread has gotten ugly enough as it is. Speaking of which, I'll be gone for the next week or so visiting family for the holidays. Please pardon me if I don't respond.

Vestmannr
Saturday, December 24th, 2005, 02:18 AM
When you comment about Germans losing their language in the USA, you are actually reflecting on a kind of genocide.

:~( WAAAAHHHH... Ve Victus. That sort of whining isn't becoming to anyone who claims to be German. Genocide???? Really! Having someone speak one dialect of German over another is 'genocide'???? (How about all the Hochsdeutsch expected out of those who formerly spoke Frisian or Plattsdeutsch?) Anyways - I'm proud to be descended from thousands of years of warriors who wiped out tribe upon tribe of competing hominids.


This was in no way a voluntary act, I came from very recent (post-war) immigrants and I still speak German...

Most of us Americans of German ancestry aren't 'post-war' immigrants. Most of us either came as a result of Catholic persecution in the Palatinate during the 18th c., or as Alt-Lutheranisches escaping from the Franco-Calvinization of our Faith in the 19th, escaping Napoleon, or as immigrants from other European nations where they no longer wanted to be the 'German minority' (Russia, Austria, Italy, Romania, France, etc.) And yes, for the great majority of German-Americans Anglicization *was* voluntary. In adopting a new country, many of them anglicized their names, adopted English, and enriched our culture. The only attempts to 'keep it German' were with the Amish and Mennonites (already covered in this thread), and the Marxist '48ers' who in many cases were German Jews (those who created and ran the German language newspapers in the Mid-West.) The main point about German-Americans is that until WWI, they had not difficulties - and even then, they weren't 'cry babies' about it: they just didn't speak German in public. And, most importantly - they married in with the Americans (ie, Anglo-Saxons), and Anglicized Scandinavians, Anglicized Celts, etc.


So don't make these glib comments unless you are prepared to hear the truth. You "white Americans", "Anglo-Saxons" who instigated the cultural destruction of the German minority here in the USA- in full collaboration with your Jewish friends. Your precious "white" race in America is being ruined by the same forces that were used against us. Yet here I see the same anti-German attitudes being perpetuated by alleged "racial preservationists".

BS - it isn't 'anti-German'. In any case, Anglophobia has been a plank of the Jewish Counterculturists - not so much Germaniphobia. Either way, Anglo-Saxon is Germanic. What are they teaching in schools these days?


Why shouldn't we postwar immigrants simply return to Germany and leave you "Americans" to your fate? We owe you nothing. My only concern is for the earlier generations of my people who had the misfortune of being trapped here. One day we'll see them returned to Germany as well.

Ditto. We owe you nothing - and us 'earlier generations' weren't 'trapped here': we came, and are still in the majority. In fact, things look far more dire in Germany than they do in most of the US. German, Jewish, or what - immigrants who don't assimilate (or those who especially come and are hostile/conspiratorial against the American culture/people) *should* return to whence they came: its the only right thing to do. If Germany is your concern - get there hence, and work on reversing immigration/settlement law in your own nation.

Rhydderch
Monday, December 26th, 2005, 02:26 AM
This is an invalid comparison.Why is it invalid?

Thumelicus
Thursday, December 29th, 2005, 11:30 PM
That sort of whining isn't becoming to anyone who claims to be German.

Passive submission is unbecoming of anyone. Someone needs to remind you that we don't all want "peace at any price". This thread suggested to me that some of you were getting the wrong idea.

I'll remind you that I've already posted the law on who is or isn't German. If you have problems with this, I suggest that you take it up with the FRG and not me.


Most of us Americans of German ancestry aren't 'post-war' immigrants.

This is true. You would all have a much more balanced perspective if this were the case. My viewpoint probably wouldn't shock you as much as it apparently does.

Vestmannr
Friday, December 30th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Passive submission is unbecoming of anyone. Someone needs to remind you that we don't all want "peace at any price". This thread suggested to me that some of you were getting the wrong idea.

It isn't an issue of passive submission: but assimilation. The real issue is Anglophobia - which can manifest as a hatred of 'White America'. The needless and artificial rivalry between Anglo and Germanic is pointless, and serves the good of neither (and, if an Anglo is in Germany, best he assimilate there as well.)


I'll remind you that I've already posted the law on who is or isn't German.

Yes, which is what I quoted on my original post on this thread: from FRG immigration law (from which, I understand, I could make a case for dual-citizenship - something I would not follow through on because of principle.)


My viewpoint probably wouldn't shock you as much as it apparently does.

Shock? No. Annoy? Yes. Victim mythology is about one of the most annoying things. So is Anglo Germanophobia (England's historical rival was *never* Germany), or German Anglophobia (same true as for England.) Add to it that the behavior of Moderns with losers writing the history, 'minority rights', ghetto culture (ethnic enclaves trying to live outside of the reality of the society around them) - *immenently* frustrating. The point being, until the creation of the 'Multi-Cult' - German immigration to America was not to create 'German ghettos', 'German minorities', or to make 'German North America'. They knew they were coming to an Anglo country, and put their loyalty there (including learning the laws, folklore, customs, language, etc.) Such a choice was neither passive (quite the contrary), nor 'submission' in the negative sense.

I should point out *why* German immigrants were preferred by the Anglo colonies here in America: they were considered far more assimilable to English culture in sharing a sense of cleanliness, order, responsibility, industriousness... America was fully aware of its Anglo-Saxon-ness from the beginnings, and fully aware that the Anglo-Saxons came from Germania (consider Pres. Thomas Jefferson, who traced American ideas of liberty and freedom back through the Anglo-Saxons, to the heroic Saxon life in the woods of Germany.) Other than Hessian mercenaries (emphasis on mercenaries), America always had a solidly Anglo pro-German approach (which is why we modeled our Army and Education on Prussian models - while we were yet still a solidly Anglo country.)

Thumelicus
Friday, December 30th, 2005, 06:44 PM
Yes, which is what I quoted on my original post on this thread: from FRG immigration law (from which, I understand, I could make a case for dual-citizenship

Actually, I don't think that you do. It's much more difficult than a question of simply having some remote German ancestor. According to the law, one must have proven German nationality in order to be considered as a German.

In order to directly qualify as a German national you at least must be second generation if you were born in the USA and at least one of your parents shouldn't have naturalized and you should have been born after January 1st, 1975. In other words, most Americans of German ancestry (I would say 98% at least) will not have an easy time of it. As for maternal cases, marriage (like in the 1950s) used to automatically strip wives of German nationality and naturalization to the USA generally strips you of other foreign citizenships unless you get a waiver from your consulate (only available very recently). Cases with grandparents, etc. generally require a German immigration lawyer, can take up to two years to arbitrate, and are increasingly difficult because of abuse. However, you can get one, apply for a Staatsangehörigkeitausweiss, and start learning German :)

In short, it is very difficult to obtain dual citizenship between the USA and Germany unless you were born with it. The German consulate wants certain guarantees before they allow you to have a waiver so you can naturalize as an American. They're trying to reinterpret the law to make this easier (a lot of people have elderly parents, don't want to lose their pensions, etc.).


something I would not follow through on because of principle.)

Refusing to take advantage of an opportunity that simply falls into your lap is a very unAmerican thing to do, which is why I don't believe for a second that any of you would actually do as you claim.

Vestmannr
Saturday, December 31st, 2005, 12:52 PM
Actually, I don't think that you do.

The lawyers said I do, and yourself further down in your post explain just why...


Cases with grandparents, etc. generally require a German immigration lawyer, can take up to two years to arbitrate, and are increasingly difficult because of abuse. However, you can get one, apply for a [/COLOR]Staatsangehörigkeitausweiss[COLOR=black], and start learning German :)

Which is exactly what post on 'What it Germanicity?' explained - what the BD laws require. And, it wouldn't be an issue of 'learning German', but relearning it (though I hear there is still official discouragement of Plattsdeutsch).


Refusing to take advantage of an opportunity that simply falls into your lap is a very unAmerican thing to do, which is why I don't believe for a second that any of you would actually do as you claim.

My - what a caricature. You're the arbiter of what is American or unAmerican? Forgive me - I didn't know. I'll go right out and start stealing from every unlocked car... :headbang ... end sarcasm.

The reason I won't pursue German citizenship is simple - 'no man can serve two masters'. I don't believe in Internationalism. I believe the locality is the basic and most complete place for government and belonging. I don't believe in burning fossil fuels to 'jet set' on a passport collection, the schizophrenia of having responsibilities to multiple publics, etc. And, especially the maxim 'cursed is the man who hates the land of his birth'. I do believe in rootedness, the sense of place, of making the place one lives a place worth caring for (living for and dying for). If I put my energy into Germany, the UK, or any other country I had the opportunity for citizenship into, I'm not going to waste my energy on double-timing that country. I'm no polygamist. I can appreciate the one I'm not married to, but I'm not going to cheat on the one I'm with (or make her share.)

Siegmund
Monday, January 2nd, 2006, 09:15 AM
until the creation of the 'Multi-Cult' - German immigration to America was not to create 'German ghettos', 'German minorities', or to make 'German North America'. They knew they were coming to an Anglo country, and put their loyalty there (including learning the laws, folklore, customs, language, etc.) Such a choice was neither passive (quite the contrary), nor 'submission' in the negative sense.

The only attempts to 'keep it German' were with the Amish and Mennonites (already covered in this thread), and the Marxist '48ers' who in many cases were German Jews (those who created and ran the German language newspapers in the Mid-West.)
You'll apparently be surprised to learn that there were many old German communities (http://anonym.to/?http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/publications/infocus/german-americans/g-a_in_us.html?PHPSESSID=159d3eb947f081ab9 a3edbdf8a25f368) that wished to retain their identities.

Fredericksburg, Texas, is a typical example of a 19th century German-American community that resisted assimilation into the American "melting pot":


The bitter experience of the Civil War did nothing but bolster the traditional German determination not to get involved in state and national affairs, which in turn solidified the German community over time. The Germans tried to maintain their independence by steadfastly refusing to learn or use English, an isolationist move that they had given up by 1900.
More detail here (http://anonym.to/?http://www.fbgtx.org/other/history.htm).

Germans immigrating to America typically sought out other Germans, not Anglo-Americans:


Like other immigrant groups, the Germans followed the natural instinct of forming neighborhoods with their countrymen where they felt at home far away from home. They preferred to head for a region where they could still acquire reasonably priced farm land in areas where German-language churches and perhaps German schools already existed. Thus, the path taken by an individual often turned out to be but a link in a growing chain that bound the Old Homeland to the new target region. Scholars address this as "chain migration" and cite, for example, the fact that many Hannoverians, Oldenburgers, and Braunschweigers traveled by way of Bremen and New Orleans to Ohio and Missouri.
[source (http://anonym.to/?http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/chap3.html)]


The tendency of German immigrants to settle in close proximity to each other encouraged the continuation of familiar lifestyles. Significant problems of assimilation and adjustment were more easily solved when at least some behavioral patterns of everyday life could be retained, such as, shopping at a German baker or butcher, and enjoying a beer in a German tavern or beer garden. Likewise, if a German worked together with Yankees and other immigrants, he much preferred to spend his free time with his fellow countrymen. This resulted in enterprising German-language organizations that encompassed all aspects of life, extending from the singing society to the gymnastics club and all the way to the mutual aid society [early forms of mutual health and funeral insurance]. In colonial times already, especially in harbor cities such as Philadelphia and New York, well to-do Germans founded charitable institutions to better assist newcomers.
[source (http://anonym.to/?http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/chap5.html)]


Following the War of Secession, and especially after the 1877 reintegration of the South, American nationalism grew stronger than ever before. In the following decades the United States identified with Anglo-Saxon racist and superiority attitudes, with a strategy of naval supremacy in the Pacific, and with Protestant missionary zeal in order to justify its participation in the great power rivalry for colonial possessions. Before America's entry into the First World War, therefore, the public activities of pro-Kaiser German-Americans and of other large polyglot immigrant groups in many big cities reminded President Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt and other vocal American "preparedness" supporters of certain signs of malfunction in the "melting pot." Meanwhile, the orgies of European nationalism also aroused America's nationalism with the result that in 1916 a massive Anglo-Americanization campaign was launched. The resulting "loyalty" hysteria that accompanied the United States entry into the War led to an accelerated end of organized German-American culture.
[source (http://anonym.to/?http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/chap9.html)]


As far as economic, social, political and cultural matters are concerned, the majority of German immigrants and their descendants have not only been fully integrated into the American mainstream, in many respects they have even co-created it. But the anti-melting pot vision of a separate German-style "model state" within the Union was occasionally discussed until about 1850. Travel-guide author Franz Löher, writing in 1847, describes the dream of a German state that was to be situated somewhere between the Missouri River and the Great Lakes:

They will become Americans, good republicans and good businessmen. They will mix with the non-Germans and will intermarry and will assume many of their manners. But the general tenor will remain German through and through. Our people will be able to produce wine on the riverbanks and drink it, accompanied by cheerful songs and dances. They will be able to have German schools and universities, German literature and art, German science and philosophy, German regiments, courts and state assemblies, in short, they will be able to build a German state in which their language will be the official language, just as English is now, and in which the German way of life will live, thrive and predominate exactly as the English way does everywhere now [Franz Löher, Geschichte und Zustände, 502].

The "ghettos" or the "colonies" of individual immigrant groups in certain sections of the big cities have long since been acknowledged by American immigration researchers as useful transition stages on the long and tedious path to integration into the English-speaking middle class. To illustrate the support which group settlement of immigrants affords, we can compare it with a "decompression chamber" which, as in a diver's case, eases the step-by-step ascent into the new society. This metaphor is meant to belittle neither the life-threatening living conditions in the New York tenement houses of the 1880s, nor the concentration of foreign children in the inner city schools of the 1990s. No doubt, the process of acceptance and integration of ethnic minorities will suffer setbacks in urban centers everywhere in the world. A functioning multicultural society does not come about without the best effort on the part of all concerned. However, the German-American experience can shed some light on the process and help strengthen our rationality in the face of doom prophets and nativistic hate mongers.
[source (http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/chap11.html)]

Sadly, the ultimate assimilation of Germans into America is often seen, as it is here, as a model of multicultural adaptation. And so it is.

Certainly there are many "German Americans" who have been fully assimilated into mainstream American culture. But there are also some who were (and still are) more accurately described as transplanted Germans living in America. As Germanics, both groups are worthy of respect - the German American who wishes to retain his ancestral heritage no less than the Germanic American who is proud of his New World heritage.

Vestmannr
Wednesday, January 4th, 2006, 09:18 AM
You'll apparently be surprised to learn that there were many old German communities that wished to retain their identities.

Fredericksburg, Texas, is a typical example of a 19th century German-American community that resisted assimilation into the American "melting pot":

Yes, that would be in the later settlement - the 'old' German settlements are from the 18th c. However, if you've been to Fredericksburg (or any other German settlement in Texas) you'll know they are more Anglo than anything. (I grew up near those settlements.)



Germans immigrating to America typically sought out other Germans, not Anglo-Americans:

That was particular with the 48ers, from what I can tell. (Being those with 'Carl Schurz' societies today.)

QuietWind
Wednesday, January 4th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Yes, that would be in the later settlement - the 'old' German settlements are from the 18th c. However, if you've been to Fredericksburg (or any other German settlement in Texas) you'll know they are more Anglo than anything. (I grew up near those settlements.)

I have to agree with Siegmund regarding Fredericksburg (and also New Braunfels-- mentioned on the link he gave) and I have been to both places. In fact, I live in New Braunfels. ;)

I am not sure how you call them "more anglo than anything." Can you please expound on this statement? How do you define them as such? Do you see them as anymore "anglo" than places in the rest of the world, mimicking American culture?

Thumelicus
Wednesday, January 4th, 2006, 10:53 PM
The lawyers said I do, and yourself further down in your post explain just why.

If you don't have at least a German grandparent, you should ask for your money back... and if you do, WTF are we arguing?

herr georg
Friday, January 6th, 2006, 06:17 AM
This is silly. Racially I'm probably closer to the "Anglo-Saxons" than you are.

I never claimed that anyone is "keeping me down", what a transparent attempt to color my words. You have no idea of what I do, how much I earn, or where I reside. It's pure conjecture on your part. What I said is that your country is anti-German. I learned to get around this simply by not discussing my heritage with anyone. This is actually much worse than if my viewpoint were simply unpopular but tolerated... and why not? I come from a Germanic culture. You should let us coexist. Yet you refuse to view this matter objectively.

Here's the irony in english/anglo-saxons being anti-german:
'anglo-saxon' is an umbrella term for a group of germanic tribes who resided in germany most notably the angles (england, english or perhaps angland, anglisch) named after angledt where they lived, and the saxons, named after saxony. What's more, modern germans descend from these same exact tribes and are literally 'anglo-saxon' as well.
That is just general knowledge, but I wonder how many anti-german anglos who stop to think that they, by definition, are virtually germans themselves.

Vestmannr
Friday, January 6th, 2006, 12:30 PM
I have to agree with Siegmund regarding Fredericksburg (and also New Braunfels-- mentioned on the link he gave) and I have been to both places. In fact, I live in New Braunfels. ;)

I am not sure how you call them "more anglo than anything." Can you please expound on this statement? How do you define them as such? Do you see them as anymore "anglo" than places in the rest of the world, mimicking American culture?

My family are from just an hour north of where you are at (I left there about 7 years ago.) And yes, the Hill Country is more 'Anglo' now (preserving more of old Anglo-American life or a similitude of it) than much of the rest of the country, or especially the global 'pop culture' that some keep mistaking for American.

Like it or not, English and German ways of life were not that different to begin with. Anglicization, in terms of language, was about the most important change (and names) - that German-Americans did adopt English as a spoken language, and names (German-Americans even in Texas Hill Country overwhelmingly use Anglicized names, even in the cases of many surnames.) In fact, it is why Germans were preferred over other nationalities in America (even the Irish, whom I also count as ancestors.) Consider the old American saying "The dirty, dirty Dutch, ain't worth much - but a damn sight better than the Irish." Sure, a bit xenophobic with reference to the 'Dutch' (meaning Deutsch in the case of this saying, not the 'Dutch' proper) but beyond clique maintenance, we can see that Germans were preferred over the Irish (who, were overwhelming preferred in turn over other nationalities - US Ancestry numbers do accurately reflect American's preferences for whom they felt most comfortable with in their Anglo society.)

And, the fact that the Old Settler German-Americans were anglicized goes much towards explaining why Fritz Kuhn's movement had its only great impact with recent immigrants - being a non-event for most German-Americans with generational history in America.

Vestmannr
Friday, January 6th, 2006, 12:31 PM
If you don't have at least a German grandparent, you should ask for your money back... and if you do, WTF are we arguing?

Because it takes two to tango - and because it wasn't my money (just my decision, despite what some other family members in the US, Germany, or other countries, may want.)

Thumelicus
Tuesday, January 10th, 2006, 01:54 PM
Because it takes two to tango - and because it wasn't my money (just my decision, despite what some other family members in the US, Germany, or other countries, may want.)

:rofl

Reminds me of the famous expression "die sagen viel wenn der Tag lang ist." It describes Americans perfectly... or at least the way they are now. Earlier generations were much better, IMO.

QuietWind
Tuesday, January 10th, 2006, 06:19 PM
My family are from just an hour north of where you are at (I left there about 7 years ago.) And yes, the Hill Country is more 'Anglo' now (preserving more of old Anglo-American life or a similitude of it) than much of the rest of the country, or especially the global 'pop culture' that some keep mistaking for American.

Like it or not, English and German ways of life were not that different to begin with. Anglicization, in terms of language, was about the most important change (and names) - that German-Americans did adopt English as a spoken language, and names (German-Americans even in Texas Hill Country overwhelmingly use Anglicized names, even in the cases of many surnames.)

So, you consider these towns to be preserving anglo-american culture more than anything based upon their adopting the English language, and the fact that names are often anglicized?

Arond here, they make attempts to keep use of the German language. Our newspaper is called the Herald-Zeitung; we have events such as Wurstfest, Weihnachtsmarkt, Wein und Saengerfest, and Wassailfest; the community center offers German language classes for all ages; you can eat at places such as Oma's Haus, or Friesenhaus Restaraunt; you can lodge in places like Das Anwesen, Dorella's Kleine Gasthaus, and Gerlich-Wagenfuehr Bed and Breakfast; and cool off in the water at Schlitterbahn.

This is America, of course there is Anglicization, but that still doesn't reduce or eliminate what Siegmund said about how these communities wished to retain their German identity. The identity is not isolated to a museum (although we do have one of those), it is kept alive through community events, programs, business names, and even in the names of the people.

Haldís
Thursday, January 19th, 2006, 03:29 AM
Light-Blue is predominantly German. :)

Thruthheim
Thursday, January 19th, 2006, 03:35 AM
Bloody hell... Those Mexicans really ARE taking over :speechles

Am surprised with 2 things...

The high amount of German ancestry, and the Low amount of English ancestry.. Is this based on genetics or just survey on what people claimed as their ancestry?

Still.. the English have a sizeable area populated in the West..

Nordgau
Friday, January 20th, 2006, 04:38 PM
As far as I see there is no state where Germans have the predominance in every county. In Nebraska, however, it is only one Indian-dominated county that has to fall to make things perfect. :D

Sigurd
Friday, January 20th, 2006, 04:58 PM
As far as I see there is no state where Germans have the predominance in every county. In Nebraska, however, it is only one Indian-dominated county that has to fall to make things perfect. :D

Bury your hope, a fair proportion of thsoe "Germans" are probably "J00s"

In any case, I find this like everywhere. Just make sure you include that 2 Puertarican counties in the huge colour map... :rolleyes:

Lissu
Friday, January 20th, 2006, 05:13 PM
:scratch:

There is own colour for areas predominantly of Finnish ancestry (a small area near the Great Lakes, who would have guessed? :D), but then there is no own colour for Swedes. Quite surprizing for me....

Sigurd
Friday, January 20th, 2006, 05:14 PM
:scratch:

There is own colour for areas predominantly of Finnish ancestry (a small area near the Great Lakes, who would have guessed? :D), but then there is no own colour for Swedes. Quite surprizing for me....

Exactly, but the Puertoricans even get their own color for two counties... :speechles

Kalevi
Friday, January 20th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Maybe the Swedes have just spread over a larger territory so that they're not majority in anywhere. I think there should be lots of Swedes around the area where there is Finns and Norwegians.

And what the heck is "American"? Mixed or unsure?

Gee, if I'd ever have to leave Finland, I'm moving to Michigan. (We'd just have to push Detroit in the lake, of course... :D)

fog
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 01:51 AM
Bloody hell... Those Mexicans really ARE taking over :speechles

Am surprised with 2 things...

The high amount of German ancestry, and the Low amount of English ancestry.. Is this based on genetics or just survey on what people claimed as their ancestry?

Still.. the English have a sizeable area populated in the West..

The German ancestry is much less than it appears, for they dominate mainly in low-populated areas.

First see http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/english.gif

and then: http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/usancest.gif

and also the other groups:
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/

Since the English are the largest group in the South, I think it is safe to assume that the "American Ancestry" people are mostly English but with traces of other groups, which happens after 300 years.

It seems that people downplay their oldstock American (english) ancestry just because it is already Americanized. I have known (and noticied people at these forums) who are only 1/4 German or something but when asked for ethnic group they say German.

The Irish also seem significant in the American majority areas. http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/irish.gif

Thruthheim
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 02:10 AM
It seems that people downplay their oldstock American (english) ancestry just because it is already Americanized. I have known (and noticied people at these forums) who are only 1/4 German or something but when asked for ethnic group they say German.


Maybe on sites such as these, they claim more German ancestry because they romancitize their German element due to the Nazi's and "who was right" kind of thing?

SouthernBoy
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 02:28 AM
Bury your hope, a fair proportion of thsoe "Germans" are probably "J00s" Dig it up; Jews make up an extremely small proportion of those Americans whom identify as "German".

TisaAnne
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 03:57 AM
I live in Washinton state, and from what I've noticed, there are a lot of people of German heritage, but there is also a large population of people with Norwegian and Swedish backgrounds... In fact, a large majority of my friends are of Scandinavian decent, yet the map didn't even take into consideration that these areas of Nordic populations do exist (somewhat prevalently) here, in Washington. :scratch:

Off-topic story - I was visiting a town called Snohomish, in the North-Western part of my state, and looking through the telephone directory I found two whole pages dominated by the surname "Bartelheimer"... it was quite funny for me, as that is my mother's last name, and where she grew up everyone teased her for how strange and "foreign" sounding it was... kids used to call her, and her brothers, "The Fartelheimers" :rolleyes: :P.

A surprising coincidence, though, is that my Bartelheimer's have been dairy farmers since coming to America, and for many, many gererations back in Germany, and the Bartelheimers in this town I went to were dairy owners, as well... it's just weird to think that someone can grow up in one part of America, feeling totally alientated and unfamiliar because of their heritage, yet in another part of this same country, just about everyone comes from the same place that your family did, and you are just as common and "normal" as the rest...

Zyklop
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 07:51 AM
Off-topic story - I was visiting a town called Snohomish, in the North-Western part of my state, and looking through the telephone directory I found two whole pages dominated by the surname "Bartelheimer"... There is a good chance that you are related to them as Bartelheimer is a quite rare and localised family name in Germany:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=7447&stc=1&d=1137829789
Geogen (http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen.aspx)

TisaAnne
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 08:18 AM
There is a good chance that you are related to them as Bartelheimer is a quite rare and localised family name in Germany:


How strange... I never thought there could be any kind of relation, I just found it odd that there were so many of them all in one spot here, and having that name. :shrugani:

I guess it could be possible, though, as that side of the family, before coming to America in the first half of the 20th century, did live throughout Lower Saxony (particularly Bremen, though your map doesn't show that name there) and up into S-H... If it is so, they must have come here awhile before my Bartelheimers, because I've never heard anything of any of my family settling in Washington state. Still... my curiosity is perked, and I might have to do a bit of investigating. ;)

Thanks for sharing that map, Zyklop. :)

Æmeric
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 03:45 PM
Since the English are the largest group in the South, I think it is safe to assume that the "American Ancestry" people are mostly English but with traces of other groups, which happens after 300 years.

It seems that people downplay their oldstock American (english) ancestry just because it is already Americanized. I have known (and noticied people at these forums) who are only 1/4 German or something but when asked for ethnic group they say German.




I think the main reason many Americans (of English descent) do not claim English ancestry is because in many cases their families have been in America for 10 or more generations. It's sort of like contemporary English people calling themselves German or Danish.

About 40-45 million individuals did not claim an ethnicity in the 2000 census. The vast majority of these were probably Old Americans who consider ethnics to be non-whites or hyphenated Americans.

Nordgau
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 07:11 PM
Dig it up; Jews make up an extremely small proportion of those Americans whom identify as "German".

Yeah, considering that the German-Jewish relationship was not in all aspects a honeymoon period during the last century, I could imagine that German is actually one of the very last the American Jews want to be ... :P

lei.talk
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 08:01 PM
About 40-45 million individuals did not claim an ethnicity in the 2000 census.that number reminds me of some thing:

of the eighty-something millions official population
of germany, how many of those citizens
are of slavic, african, middle eastern, turkish
or some mixed ancestry?

of the forty-five millions of north americans
that declared a german ancestry
on their census-form,
i suspect very few had a black or brown face.

of the nearly five millions of north americans
that claimed norwegian descent,
how many do you think are colored?

the population of norway is less than five millions?
how many colored faces are counted as citizens?

over four millions claim swedish heritage
in north america.
the population of sweden is nine millions?
how many of those are white faces?

it would seem that vinland
is a vast repository of nordish blood.

Thruthheim
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 08:59 PM
that number reminds me of some thing:

of the eighty-something millions official population
of germany, how many of those citizens
are of slavic, african, middle eastern, turkish
or some mixed ancestry?

of the forty-five millions of north americans
that declared a german ancestry
on their census-form,
i suspect very few had a black or brown face.

of the nearly five millions of north americans
that claimed norwegian descent,
how many do you think are colored?

the population of norway is less than five millions?
how many colored faces are counted as citizens?

over four millions claim swedish heritage
in north america.
the population of sweden is nine millions?
how many of those are white faces?

it would seem that vinland
is a vast repository of nordish blood.

Whats the chances alot of these Nordish Blooded Americans might have some admixture from Lower european nations? Is there a divide between Meds and Nords?

Æmeric
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 09:30 PM
Whats the chances alot of these Nordish Blooded Americans might have some admixture from Lower european nations? Is there a divide between Meds and Nords?

The Meds are predominately Roman Catholic. Catholics generally married other Catholics until about a generation ago. Meds are also predominately urban dwellers, concentrated in the Northeast, the Great Lakes and California Coast. Nords are concentrated in rural areas and in urban areas in the South, Midwest, Rocky Mountains, Pacific Northwest and suburban California. Basically I think you can divide the Euro-American population into an Irish/Italian/Med/Slavic Catholic Group and a British/Protestant Irish/German/Dutch/Scandinavian Group (The latter accounting for about half the total American population). Some of the Nords are Catholic,especially the Germans. Religion is not as important as it use to be and inter-ethnic marriage is more common but as I pointed out Nords and Meds in many cases just do'nt live in the same areas.

SouthernBoy
Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 09:35 PM
Whats the chances alot of these Nordish Blooded Americans might have some admixture from Lower european nations? Is there a divide between Meds and Nords? It is miniscule; the divide between Mediterraneans and North-Westerners has remained as absolute as in Europe, IMO.

Would Europeans be open to the idea of "repatriation" by Americans whom can prove mononational descent? Would German-Americans be considered "volksdeutsche"?

Thruthheim
Sunday, January 22nd, 2006, 03:40 AM
It is miniscule; the divide between Mediterraneans and North-Westerners has remained as absolute as in Europe, IMO.

Would Europeans be open to the idea of "repatriation" by Americans whom can prove mononational descent? Would German-Americans be considered "volksdeutsche"?

Mononational descent? Yes, in that case, i would accept them.
If they had a Mix, wouldn't be so problematic, but, positive to Mononational descending Americans are, there can't be all that many right?

SouthernBoy
Sunday, January 22nd, 2006, 03:59 AM
Mononational descent? Yes, in that case, i would accept them.
If they had a Mix, wouldn't be so problematic, but, positive to Mononational descending Americans are, there can't be all that many right?
They are perhaps ⅛ of those Americans whom are of European-descent. I will search for studies on the matter. :)

beowulf wodenson
Wednesday, January 25th, 2006, 01:56 AM
The high amount of German ancestry, and the Low amount of English ancestry.. Is this based on genetics or just survey on what people claimed as their ancestry?

Still.. the English have a sizeable area populated in the West

Most of those "American" areas across the South, and every county in Kentucky except 2 or 3 according to the map will be composed of folks of English and some Scots-Irish descent which pretty neatly describes me. That map is based on what ancestry respondents to the census claimed themselves. The one county in my state with a majority non-white claiming population is one directly south of mine and that's probably accurate as it has a very large negro population and one of the highest crime rates in Kentucky to go with it, imagine that....:scratch: Most of those who claimed 'American' ancestry have no doubt lost touch with their ancestral roots.

Sigurd
Wednesday, January 25th, 2006, 03:35 AM
Dig it up; Jews make up an extremely small proportion of those Americans whom identify as "German".

Yay! Making me finally able to rest at 3.35 AM...good to know that. I had always been afraid that a lot of "Germans" in the US were Jews. But good to hear that it isn't the case; and a Vinlander himself must know. :)

TisaAnne
Wednesday, January 25th, 2006, 04:06 AM
Yay! Making me finally able to rest at 3.35 AM...good to know that. I had always been afraid that a lot of "Germans" in the US were Jews. But good to hear that it isn't the case; and a Vinlander himself must know. :)

From what I've seen, most Jews in America still cling to their Jewish identity first, and foremost, no matter what European country their family hails from. Even if they forego the religion part, most will still claim that they are Jews, and rather proudly so. Their sense of cultural identity is a good thing, though... it helps to discourage mixing, as they generally like to stick with their own "kind", and most gentiles are still rather uneasy (despite keeping up the appearance of being racially un-biased) about mixing with the Jews.

Thobjorn
Wednesday, January 25th, 2006, 05:06 AM
I live in Washinton state, and from what I've noticed, there are a lot of people of German heritage, but there is also a large population of people with Norwegian and Swedish backgrounds... In fact, a large majority of my friends are of Scandinavian decent, yet the map didn't even take into consideration that these areas of Nordic populations do exist (somewhat prevalently) here, in Washington. :scratch:

Off-topic story - I was visiting a town called Snohomish, in the North-Western part of my state, and looking through the telephone directory I found two whole pages dominated by the surname "Bartelheimer"... it was quite funny for me, as that is my mother's last name, and where she grew up everyone teased her for how strange and "foreign" sounding it was... kids used to call her, and her brothers, "The Fartelheimers" :rolleyes: :P.

A surprising coincidence, though, is that my Bartelheimer's have been dairy farmers since coming to America, and for many, many gererations back in Germany, and the Bartelheimers in this town I went to were dairy owners, as well... it's just weird to think that someone can grow up in one part of America, feeling totally alientated and unfamiliar because of their heritage, yet in another part of this same country, just about everyone comes from the same place that your family did, and you are just as common and "normal" as the rest...


wow, crazy. yeah, i know what your talking about, that is indeed strange. about a third of my highschool is scandinavian, or german. snohomish is a really nice place, its got a nice small town vibe, it just feels old. i used to go to school just outside of the valley, so i used to go to snohomish all the time, i would even ride my bike there, if i was feeling adventurous.:P

oh, and i got teased for my german last name, too, so i know how that is :P

QuietWind
Tuesday, March 7th, 2006, 09:46 PM
Tee hee, I had to edit my post above because I saw a missed "r" in a word.:D

Anyhow, I wanted to post to tell you that our state repesentative running for office has German spoken in her television commercial (and no Spanish.) :thumbup I have only seen one though. Knowing Texas, I bet they run her ads in Spanish on the Spanish stations. :thumbdown

Teutonic
Saturday, March 18th, 2006, 11:54 PM
Hi, I am new here. I'm 27, male, and German on both sides, American by birth. My family is all from North Dakota, and Wisconsin; the town I was born in in North Dakota is 70-80% German. I have read all of your comments on here and while I want to offend no one, I really dont care if I do either. My family growing up and being from North Dakota had many times people say rude or nasty comments to my family; my mother and father speak German to this day as well as all my family; most of my cousins don't. My father told me in school that many teachers would yell at them or suspend them if they spoke German. My grandfathers told me that during WW1 and WW2 that everyone around them that wasn't German was very hateful of all of us, even though my people have contributed just as much or in my opinon more so than any other ethnicity in this country. I even read that during WW2 in Minneapolis where I went to high school that in the sister city of St. Paul the anti-German sentiment and crap, they took down the statue of Germania that used to be in front of the capitol. Also there have been many instances of Americans beating up and killing Americans of German descent. I myself am going to school in Berlin this fall and when I do, I will also try to eventually gain citizenship; I, like many of my brother and sisters in the Midwest, value and cherish our German roots. Sorry for the rambling and incoherentness of this post. lol

Rhydderch
Monday, March 20th, 2006, 01:57 AM
my mother and father speak German to this day as well as all my familyHow long have your family been in America?


"The dirty, dirty Dutch, ain't worth much - but a damn sight better than the Irish." Sure, a bit xenophobic with reference to the 'Dutch' (meaning Deutsch in the case of this saying, not the 'Dutch' proper) but beyond clique maintenance, we can see that Germans were preferred over the IrishThis preference probably has more to do with the Catholicism of the Irish, than with a German tendency to assimilate more rapidly, unless the saying refers to the "Scotch-Irish".

Teutonic
Tuesday, March 21st, 2006, 02:24 AM
How long have your family been in America?
mM fathers side has been here for a 100 years, and my mothers about 80 years. I come from the midwest and most of us are german,norwegian,swedish.We make up the majority.I have a some irish friends as well but my german, norwegian friends and neighbors out number everyone.

Aragorn
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 01:43 PM
Areas of the German-speaking/German blooded

Beorncyning
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 09:25 PM
Nice post. I included an edited version of the map showing where I live. :)

GermanBund
Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 04:04 AM
Brand new to this forum. Brand new to "internet forums" in general so forgive me if I don't know the etiquette. Just wanted to comment on a few things on this topic... Glad to see another Minnesotan-German who's even Catholic. :) (Volksdeutsche) I reside in Nebraska now, but all my relatives are from Minnesota and Wisconsin. I've never experienced any "anti-German" prejudice in this country, but I have resided in the Midwest my whole life so...maybe I'm "isolated." My maternal grandfather did mention German language being taught in schools as having been banned when he was 7 (when the US entered WW I). He said "The Kaiser cut off my education." (Joke - he laughed).

I disagree a lot with what Thumelicus has to say. Just because I don't "speak" German, doesn't mean I'm not German. 7 out of 8 of my great-grandparents came from various parts of Germany/Austria. Of course, maybe Austria isn't considered "German" either by Thumelicus...I don't know. Does a Turk who speaks German more "German" than myself regardless of racial/biological ancestry? I took 3 years of German in high school. Unfortunately, I don't remember a lot of it. It does help when I watch my "Hogan's Heroes" DVDs though. :D I hate to bring up the Hitler card, but...I'm sorry, but according to National Socialist "law" (racial law) if I wanted to return to the "Fatherland," I'm sure the Fuhrer would have welcomed me with "open arms" regardless of my language "handicap." I'm an Aryan German so...doesn't race matter more than "legal citizenship" and "language?"

Just my thoughts...

Georgia
Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 12:56 PM
Appalachian

I'm a Jamestown descendant, thank you very much.


http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/Jamestown/first.html
Therefore, Germans were present at the creation of this nation. The Germans who came to Jamestown in 1608 and subsequently in 1620 were the forerunners of the largest nationality to immigrate to these united States since its founding in 1776.

Jäger
Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 01:06 PM
@GermanBund, Zyklop has made a good post about this, at least I think that :) http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=51797

Georgia
Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 01:39 PM
Fraxinus Excelsior
If you are interested in the subject of Mennonites in the USA, you might like this thread (The Swiss Mennonite Cultural and Historical Association (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=22506)) we had on them a couple of months ago.
Down here in South Georgia we have a fairly good size Mennonite population. One can identify the ladies right away by the way they dress. Very feminine, very long hair. Some of them are farmers, some are in the construction business. Most only marry amongst fellow believers of the Mennonite faith. In all the years that I have been friends with these wonderful people I have only seen one young woman marry outside the Mennonite faith. They educate their own. Very family oriented. What makes them so successful and prosperous is their unity. Though they may differ in personality and perhaps in other "little unimportant" areas they have managed to remain united in one faith for the survival and prosperity of their people:thumbup . They practice what they believe.

Some still speak German and when we get together, y'all should hear us.....:)

Georgia has a sizeable Mennonite population and is the home to several Mennonite communities.

http://www.bbonline.com/ga/whitehouse/ http://www.montezuma-ga.org/chamber/Lodging.html

Thumelicus
Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 06:52 PM
@GermanBund, Zyklop has made a good post about this, at least I think that http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=51797

also @GemanBund: I definitely would recommend reading Zyklop's excellent post and what he has to say on the subject in general. It's the end-all-be-all of this discussion. Once you've read it and thought about it, then you should consider this thread (and replies on that thread) in context.


I disagree a lot with what Thumelicus has to say.

Everybody disagrees with me, it seems. That’s fine, I’m used to it.


Just because I don't "speak" German, doesn't mean I'm not German.

Please don’t repeat this idea to a German nationalist. They can be rather cruel. More to the point, the final arbitration of what is or is not German should never occur in the United States, discussed by two American citizens.


I don't know. Does a Turk who speaks German more "German" than myself regardless of racial/biological ancestry?

Even if you spoke German, the Turk would proudly point to himself and say I was born in Germany... and educated to speak German at the expense of the German people.


I hate to bring up the Hitler card, but...I'm sorry, but according to National Socialist "law" (racial law) if I wanted to return to the "Fatherland," I'm sure the Fuhrer would have welcomed me with "open arms" regardless of my language "handicap."

What would any proud German think of what you have to say here? What purpose would you serve, even in the Army, without the ability to understand and follow even simple instructions? As a German, you would have a duty to make yourself into a productive citizen.

GermanBund
Wednesday, May 3rd, 2006, 01:42 AM
also @GemanBund: I definitely would recommend reading Zyklop's excellent post and what he has to say on the subject in general. It's the end-all-be-all of this discussion. Once you've read it and thought about it, then you should consider this thread (and replies on that thread) in context.
Thank you, Thumelicus. I will read that post.



Everybody disagrees with me, it seems. That’s fine, I’m used to it.
I'm sorry to hear that. :(


Please don’t repeat this idea to a German nationalist. They can be rather cruel. More to the point, the final arbitration of what is or is not German should never occur in the United States, discussed by two American citizens.
I'm not sure about that. I consider Hitler an Aryan Racialist rather than a German Nationalist. While I consider the Germans the "cream of the crop" of the Aryan race, I'm of that stock so...why can't I be considered in regards to what is German and what is not? It's a matter of race, not place of geographical birth or "legal" citizenship of a particular nation. Especially considering the "propped-up" pro-Allied German governments since the end of WWII, I've more of a right than some Germans themselves TODAY who have been brainwashed into anti-National Socialism. May I ask if you are a National Socialist?


Even if you spoke German, the Turk would proudly point to himself and say I was born in Germany... and educated to speak German at the expense of the German people.
I'm sure the Turk would be proud to have duped the German people into educating him and giving him "legal" citizenship. Yet you say these same German people are the ones who are to determine what is "German" and what is not? Correct? That's embarrassing if anything, unfortunately. The Germans running your government are not racially aware at all as in pre-1945 Germany, even under the Kaiser. The "grand-father" of the greatest German movement in history - National Socialism - was an "Anglo" - Houston Stewart Chamberlain. You would say Chamberlain didn't have a right to say what is "German" and what is not??? He knew what "Germanic" was more than any "modern" German today does, yet the man was an Englishman. Go figure...


What would any proud German think of what you have to say here? What purpose would you serve, even in the Army, without the ability to understand and follow even simple instructions? As a German, you would have a duty to make yourself into a productive citizen.
No problem. Per the vast majority of linguists, German is an easier language to learn than English. :D Then I could promote pro-German relations between other English-speaking nations and Deutschland. Or I could be a spy for Germany in English-speaking countries??? :D (Joke) Either way, my 3 years of German would come back to me once living in the Fatherland. It's not like I didn't get the highest grades in the class. Language is just a matter of living in an environment where the people speak it as the base language. Didn't you ever see the Simpsons episode where Bart goes to France, can't speak French, but learns it after being held captive and not being exposed to anything but French? By the way...hope this forum has a sense of humor. You do watch the Simpsons, correct? Anyway..."Aryan" is a racial/genetic matter, not a "I was born here" matter.

Are we arguing over something different? Do you not believe "Germans abroad" are as good as "native Germans?" Seriously...just want to know. To you, is it just a matter of "He was born here so he's German and this other person wasn't born in Deutschland so he's not German" regardless of race/genetics/ethnicity?

GermanBund
Wednesday, May 3rd, 2006, 03:53 AM
Well, despite my promise to look at other posts, they are inaccesible to me per the forum. Says I don't have rights to: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=51797

:( :~(

Thumelicus
Wednesday, May 3rd, 2006, 05:41 AM
For GermanBund:

The Question:


What I do not understand is how a German, who leaves Germany and moves to another country, etc. is no longer a German or allowed to claim their German heritage and ancestry.

Maybe this misunderstanding is simply a matter of semantics. For example, I agree that a "German American" is purely American and of American citizenship; howver, they are also of German ancestry (sometimes wholly). By calling themselves a German-American, "German" becomes an adjective to describe which type of American the individual is and of what their heritage is. It isn't used to denote that the individual is a German citizen and an American both. I do not believe, that a German who comes to American ceases in being a German. If you believe this, at what point does the individual cease being of German ancestry, in your opinion, and is simply an American only, devoid of any other ancestry? First generation? Second generation? Eighth generation? What precise point does a German who moves away from Germany (and goes to any non-specific country) cease in being German?

The Response:


You surely have heard the term "volksdeutsch" before. It basically means being of German ancestry but holding citizenship of a different country and living outside German borders.
For example, some hundred years ago the Russians offered farming land to German farmers who at this time had trouble finding land in Germany. Many Germans moved to Russia and began building German communities over there. These people are called "Volksdeutsche" as opposed to "Reichsdeutsche", which describes Germans holding German citizenship and living inside German borders. They identified themselves as Germans, kept loyal to their heritage over the centuries and have payed a high price for it. You can do some research on the word "Gulag", if you don´t know what it means already.

Regarding America, people of predominantly German ancestry living in America are volksdeutsch as long as they identify themselves as such and reject being American. How can you be loyal to two cultures at the same time, especially when one is choking the other and is proud of its subjugation? Most of these self proclaimed German-Americans are just a bunch of idiots who use their ancestry to have an interesting story to tell about their background. Where is their ancestry when it could bring them disadvantage? How is it possible that the largest ethnic group in the US was not able to prevent the involvement in two world wars against their own people and the (continued) occupation of Germany?

My deepest respect for the true German minorities everywhere in the world and the uttermost scorn for the traitors who wave flags of hostile nations and dare claiming kinship.

GermanBund
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 12:32 AM
Hmmm...like Jennifer's view better.

Define "German" for me then?

So during WWII, I probably would have joined the American Bund and been thrown in jail as a spy after December 11th, 1941. Would that have satisfied you? Being a German-American is still German to me. At least my government hasn't outlawed National Socialism or our race's symbols (i.e., the swastika). Zyklop just seems "sarcastic" and "condascending" (the Gulag remark especially...come on). Plus he asks how can you be loyal to two cultures when one is subjugating the other. German aren't even allowed legally to praise their own countries past? There's two cultures in Germany (anti-National Socialist and the hidden underground National Socialists). The vast majority of Germans TODAY are anti-National Socialist. So are they are no longer German then because they can't express their loyalty to National Socialism? National Socialism will unfortunately never rise again in the Fatherland. Sorry...but I don't consider the citizens of Germany no longer German because they are NOW anti-National Socialist.

And "a bunch of idiots?" This is the guy you said is the "know-all and end-all" on the question of who is German? He should get his facts straight for one - Germans are NOT the largest ethnic group in America...the British (Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish) are. Sorry the Germans weren't able to overthrow that group...I AM. If my memory serves me correctly, German as the official language of the United States of America only lost by a single vote when this country was formed. I suppose if the USA SPOKE German, then we'd be "German" to you? Sorry, Aryan is a matter of race and that's all that matters...your race. Not what citizenship you hold, not what language you speak, etc. I'm of almost pure German ancestry, therefore I'm a German-American. You should be appreciative that there are Americans of German ancestry in the USA that hold the same racial views and high regard of the Fatherland that you do. We should be "shaking hands" not fighting over whether I'm a German or not. It would seem there are several anti-Americans on this forum. That's a shame since some of the most vehement pro-Germans are Americans. I'm interested to know if you consider Baldur von Schirach an American or a German since his mother was American?

I totally agree with Jennifer...

Jäger
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 08:38 AM
At least my government hasn't outlawed National Socialism or our race's symbols (i.e., the swastika). [...]
German aren't even allowed legally to praise their own countries past? Believe it or not, german culture is more than 12 years of national socialism.


...but I don't consider the citizens of Germany no longer German because they are NOW anti-National Socialist. Very funny, everyone who is against a jewish created pciture of NS is not german anymore, you are the true german here I bow to you.


He should get his facts straight for one - Germans are NOT the largest ethnic group in America...the British (Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish) are. :-O


Sorry the Germans weren't able to overthrow that group...I AM. If my memory serves me correctly, German as the official language of the United States of America only lost by a single vote when this country was formed. I suppose if the USA SPOKE German, then we'd be "German" to you? Good question, language is the soul of the culture, but you are not really english to me either, one can't answer that question, because it would be dependand on how you would act, and thus is just a "what if".
I forgot the source of the citing, but a german general (Bismarck?) once said something like (can't find the exact cite)
"That the americans speak english, is worth more than 50 divisions for England."


Sorry, Aryan is a matter of race and that's all that matters...your race. Not what citizenship you hold, not what language you speak, etc. Right, but German is not only a matter of race, it is actually a matter of citizenship. If we accept other aryans to become german, what the NS did, then we also accept that german's descendents can become part of another nation, they cease to be german, as much as we want the descendents of an English-German couple in Germany to cease to be English.

You can't really think just because of aryan ancestry you become automatically german, I wrote it once, now I write it again, besides race you need the will to be german, and your deeds must support your will, but you have to reject any other loyalty to another country and in this regard Volk.

And I am not anit-american in saying that germans can either be americna or german, if you want to be american, fine, but don't claim to be german then.

Leofric
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 04:25 PM
The vast majority of Germans TODAY are anti-National Socialist. So are they are no longer German then because they can't express their loyalty to National Socialism? National Socialism will unfortunately never rise again in the Fatherland. Sorry...but I don't consider the citizens of Germany no longer German because they are NOW anti-National Socialist.
Very funny, everyone who is against a jewish created pciture of NS is not german anymore, you are the true german here I bow to you.
I think maybe you didn't quite understand his statement here. There are quite a few negations in it, which complicates it somewhat.


Right, but German is not only a matter of race, it is actually a matter of citizenship. If we accept other aryans to become german, what the NS did, then we also accept that german's descendents can become part of another nation, they cease to be german, as much as we want the descendents of an English-German couple in Germany to cease to be English.

You can't really think just because of aryan ancestry you become automatically german, I wrote it once, now I write it again, besides race you need the will to be german, and your deeds must support your will, but you have to reject any other loyalty to another country and in this regard Volk.

German is a matter of citizenship? What citizenship? Are the Alsatians not German because of French citizenship? The folks in South Tyrol aren't German, but Italian? What about people like the Germans in Kazakhstan? Are the folks in Liechtenstein German? The Austrians? How about the folks in Zürich?

And for that matter, must one be a citizen of the BRD to be a German? or of the Second Reich (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=47322)? And back when I was born, who were the real Germans, those in the BRD or those in the DDR? Or those in the Second Reich?

The German ethnicity goes far beyond matters of citizenship or political loyalties, I think. Many Austrians, for example, are very proud to be Austrian and very loyal to the Austrian state — but their ethnicity is still German. Many ethnic Germans in Switzerland are very proud to be Swiss and very loyal to the Swiss state (a multinational state!), but they are still part of the German ethnicity.

I don't think it is at all necessary for ethnic Germans to be loyal to any particular government or set of governments in order to maintain their ethnicity. There are no citizenship requirements or requirements of any kind of patriotism, nor are there restrictions based on these criteria. Ethnicity, or nationhood, is something you're just born into, unavoidably. There's no choosing one's nation, like there is with citizenship or patriotic loyalty. So there can be no denying one's nation, either. I can renounce my citizenship or shift my patriotic loyalties, or even forsake the language of my forefathers, but I will always be a member of my nation, and only death will stop that (of course, as a Christian, I believe that national distinction will extend beyond death, but that's another discussion (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=49848)). I think that in order to really love one's nation, one needs to accept that the nation transcends matters of citizenship and state and governmental loyalties. Otherwise, one is really loving something else and calling it nationalism.

Jäger
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 05:13 PM
I admit, I may have used the term citizenship loosly, but ultimately it boils down to this, and even if it is just a counter argument to race. Or is everyone who is of the same race as Germans, automatically a German?

The question who actually is German, is a tough one, and I have no concrete answer, but if a man/woman becomes alien to german culture and life, in most cases we would talk about descendants of germans, why should I or anyone else consider him still German?

In an ideal german state the citizenship would be the ultimate recognition, or at least a possible application ;).

The question is, can someones descendants become german, and can someones descendants cease to be german?

Both is possible. It is indeed a tough thing, to say who is and who is not, we had actually quite some debate about that regarding the Russian-Germans, the only way to determine this, besides race, is an objective and a subjective prequesite.
The subjective is the will of the person in question.
The objective one are his deeds.

Anything else is just "Schall und Rauch" :)

Loyalty is not demanded for some kind of government, but to the Life of germans itself.
And additionally to that I can only speak of descendants because I don't believe one can cease to be what he just is :D

p.s.: actually, the whole thing started more or less, because of the notion that one who can't speak german is not german, which I don't agree with, so GermanBund might be indeed German, I can't judge that over the internet :P

Zyklop
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 05:22 PM
Being a German-American is still German to me. At least my government hasn't outlawed National Socialism or our race's symbols (i.e., the swastika). Your goverment has outlawed them in Germany.


Zyklop just seems "sarcastic" and "condascending" (the Gulag remark especially...come on). Not sarcastic at all, though I understand that as a satisfied American you consider Gulags something funny.


Plus he asks how can you be loyal to two cultures when one is subjugating the other. German aren't even allowed legally to praise their own countries past? Indeed. Have you actually ever been here?

aingli_deas
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Your goverment has outlawed them in Germany.

Excuse me? And how exactly does America have say in Germany's freedom of speech laws in the year 2006? Freedom of speech and expression is highly promoted in America, if they were to run around forcing their laws on anyone I'd find it very hard to believe that they'd contradict their own home countries laws. The American government may dislike National Socialism, but part of what our country was built on is freedom of speech.

The German government has gone crazy in preventing any discussion of National Socialism, Hitler, or any type of Fascist beliefs. The American FBI is not over in Germany arresting people for expressing their own political beliefs, the German government is.

I'd like to see some proof of how America is controlling the German government and taking their freedom of speech rights away. :)

GermanBund
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 04:22 AM
My last post...in response to Zyklop...

My government? Yeah...President Bush is Chancellor of Germany TOO... Have your people vote for a Nationalist party if they are really "true at heart" STILL National Socialist. Doubt if the U.S. would "immediately invade" Germany due to a legally elected government that is NS.

"Satisfied American?" I'm not satisfied. I'm very unsatisfied as long as Aryans are "bickering" with Aryans as seems to be going on in this forum.

Gulags aren't "funny" considering they are instruments of Bolshevik-Jewish tyranny.

Have I ever been to Germany? No. Despite my desire to see where my ancestors (yeah, sorry to say, but I still consider myself German despite you [Zyklop] and Thumelicus's opinions) dwelt as well as the Fuhrer and his followers fought for Aryan racialism, I don't see the difference in staying in my mongrelized-bastardized nation (USA - I'm NOT a big fan of the U.S.) and visting your Turk/Ethiopian/Arab-infested nation. Again, what's the difference? You can't see beyond "national borders" to the bigger picture of "Aryan racialism." Why did Hitler and Himmler authorize "Norwegian, Dutch, Balkan, etc." SS divisions if they only considered "national origin?" Why did they send funds to the American Bund if German-Americans are "second-class" citizens in THEIR eyes? Why was the NSDAP-AO in Hiterlist Germany established if National Socialism didn't care about "Germans abroad?" I'M DONE. Totally ridiculous... What a way to 'welcome' a new member to the forum... **disgust** AGAIN, not what I expected...sarcasm, "you are a liar", anti-Americanism towards pro-German Americans, etc. My recommendation is that the two aforementioned members of the forums "mature" and "evolve" beyond "national borders" and "embrace" your fellow Aryans in the struggle to establish a "world-wide" Germanic/Aryan cohesion that is only based on RACE, not "he/she can't speak German or he/she was born within the national borders so..."

Man, I'm tired...gotta go. I'll stick with non-German-American issues on this forum...

Zyklop
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 12:10 PM
My last post...in response to Zyklop...

My government? Yeah...President Bush is Chancellor of Germany TOO... Have your people vote for a Nationalist party if they are really "true at heart" STILL National Socialist.Doubt if the U.S. would "immediately invade" Germany due to a legally elected government that is NS.Are you aware that there is no peace-treaty between Germany and the Allies since 60 years now? According to international law, we are still at war. The creation of the Federal Republic of Germany was an Allied appointed transitional solution. No need to "immediately invade" Germany, your occupation troops have never left. Or do you think they are here to protect us from the communists? :rofl


"Satisfied American?" I'm not satisfied. I'm very unsatisfied as long as Aryans are "bickering" with Aryans as seems to be going on in this forum.Well, personally I have dropped that outdated term long time ago. But well, I´m a German first and foremost and only after this Germanic or "Aryan".


Have I ever been to Germany? No. Despite my desire to see where my ancestors (yeah, sorry to say, but I still consider myself German despite you [Zyklop] and Thumelicus's opinions) dwelt as well as the Fuhrer and his followers fought for Aryan racialism, I don't see the difference in staying in my mongrelized-bastardized nation (USA - I'm NOT a big fan of the U.S.) and visting your Turk/Ethiopian/Arab-infested nation. Again, what's the difference? I see, you didn´t read my post at all. Actually I thought my example of the Russia-Germans would be easy enough to be understood by even the simpliest mind. But then again it´s not my fault that you are too lazy to read. :shrug



You can't see beyond "national borders" to the bigger picture of "Aryan racialism." National borders have not much meaning to me in this context. I don´t know where you got that idea.


Why did Hitler and Himmler authorize "Norwegian, Dutch, Balkan, etc." SS divisions if they only considered "national origin?" Why did they send funds to the American Bund if German-Americans are "second-class" citizens in THEIR eyes? Who said that Germans living in America are second class Germans? If you read my post again you would find out that I support them. This whole discussion has something surreal.


Why was the NSDAP-AO in Hiterlist Germany established if National Socialism didn't care about "Germans abroad?" I'M DONE. Totally ridiculous... What a way to 'welcome' a new member to the forum... **disgust** AGAIN, not what I expected...sarcasm, "you are a liar", anti-Americanism towards pro-German Americans, etc. Well, if you twist people´s words and additionally applaud the destruction of Germany with statements that doing not so would have been "non-Germanic" you shouldn´t be suprised when it fires back at you. Or do you think people should adapt their beliefs so that you feel comfortable here? Did someone force you to join the Free Speech forum? I made the thread there for a reason.


that is only based on RACE, not "he/she can't speak German or he/she was born within the national borders so..."Exactly! That´s what I´m trying to say all the time. Where is your problem?

Georgia
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 03:27 PM
Zyklop


Did someone force you to join the Free Speech forum? I made the thread there for a reason.

I am glad you made the above statment, Zyklop. This gives me the opportunity to respond. Thank you.

Zyklop

Have you actually ever been here?

I have been there, many times. I spend the first 18 years of my life there.
Like the CSA, like the U.S. today, Germany is a conquered nation. And occupied.

My question is: What are y'all doing about your problems?

So far much of what I have read in the forum, especially in the German posts, is a "hatred" against everything that is "American." And this hate is directed not just toward the U.S. government, but against the Bevoelkerung as well, since we are, among other things, nothing but a "Dreckvolk."

There are millions of people living in what is known as the U.S., descendants of the Germanic people and others, who do NOT agree with what the U.S. government has done in the past nor what it is doing today. Though we have a little more freedom over here thanks to men like Patrick Henry and what is left of the Bill of Rights (increasingly less secondary to judicial tyranny among other things) WE ARE LIMITED VERY MUCH, JUST LIKE THE GERMANS to what can be done to change things. And unlike so many of my German "brothers and sisters" I do not wish for America to be reduced to another Third World country nor do I wish for America's destruction. Becoming a Third World country would of course be our demise.

CHANGE YES, but certainly not our demise.

For true liberty - Georgia

“Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less.” Robert E. Lee

Zyklop
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 04:01 PM
My question is: What are y'all doing about your problems? I don´t know if this is meant as a critic of the National Resistance in Germany or a serious question. I can tell you that, besides America-bashing on internet forums, there are many initiatives that are aimed at recreating a national consciousness among Germans again, often carried out under serious personal risk.


So far much of what I have read in the forum, especially in the German posts, is a "hatred" against everything that is "American." And this hate is directed not just toward the U.S. government, but against the Bevoelkerung as well, since we are, among other things, nothing but a "Dreckvolk." Those who identify with the US. No one else.


There are millions of people living in what is known as the U.S., descendants of the Germanic people and others, who do NOT agree with what the U.S. government has done in the past nor what it is doing today. Then why do they still identify with the system and wave its flag?


I do not wish for America to be reduced to another Third World country nor do I wish for America's destruction. Becoming a Third World country would of course be our demise. So you think calling back your worldwide occupation troops, puppet governments and plastic culture would turn the US into a Third World country?

Thruthheim
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 04:18 PM
"Aryan Racialism" :jeer :stop

Leofric
Saturday, May 6th, 2006, 05:21 PM
There are millions of people living in what is known as the U.S., descendants of the Germanic people and others, who do NOT agree with what the U.S. government has done in the past nor what it is doing today. Then why do they still identify with the system and wave its flag?
As a US citizen of Germanic ancestry, who strongly identifies with the United States' governmental system and proudly waves its flag, but who does not agree with many of the actions of the government, I feel qualified to answer this question.

I have a great deal of faith in the system and structure of the United States as established by our 1787 Constitution (and as appropriately amended). I believe that that system and that structure are most conducive to liberty, which is one of the things I most value. I believe that we can return to the fundamentals of that system. I am optimistic that such a return will occur.

I believe that most of the ill we have done us a country is due to betrayal of those fundamentals — betrayals that began as early as the first decade of the Republic, and that have steadily continued. That does not mean that the fundamentals are ruined or worthless because of the traitors' actions — it means the traitors are ruined and worthless.

I believe that the name of the United States of America and the flag of the United States of America rightly belong to the system established by the 1787 Constitution. I honor and cherish that political system, so I honor and cherish its emblems.

I believe it is the traitors who are wrong to use those emblems for their own twisted purposes. I hate seeing the destroyers of our system use the flag or the name of the United States of America to further their own sick ends. I believe they have no right to use those emblems when they spend all their time trying to dismantle the beautiful system that those emblems represent. They do not even understand the concept encoded in the name the United States of America — how can they be justified in using it?

I do not believe that I should be forced to abandon my love for my country and its founding principles simply because people who command a larger television audience abuse my country and its founding principles. Should I stop using my name and the name of all my fathers if I become a victim of identity theft? Better to keep the name and rid myself of the criminal. Let them work their hardest to destroy our country — I will continue to work my hardest in its defense. It is my fervent hope that, in the end, they will show themselves not to have broken the firm foundation of the country, but only to have broken themselves upon it.

Zyklop
Sunday, May 7th, 2006, 08:20 PM
I believe it is the traitors who are wrong to use those emblems for their own twisted purposes. I hate seeing the destroyers of our system use the flag or the name of the United States of America to further their own sick ends. I believe they have no right to use those emblems when they spend all their time trying to dismantle the beautiful system that those emblems represent. They do not even understand the concept encoded in the name the United States of America — how can they be justified in using it? Okay, where are the German-Americans who publicly protest against these traitors? Aren´t you guys always pointing out the freedom of speech over there? Political prosecution is extreme in Germany but still there are many pro-German demonstrations each year, for example Dresden, Halbe, Wunsiedel etc. Never heard of anything like this happening in the land of the free.
If you don´t go against them, you go with them.

Theudanaz
Sunday, May 7th, 2006, 08:45 PM
Okay, where are the German-Americans who publicly protest against these traitors? Aren´t you guys always pointing out the freedom of speech over there? Political prosecution is extreme in Germany but still there are many pro-German demonstrations each year, for example Dresden, Halbe, Wunsiedel etc. Never heard of anything like this happening in the land of the free.
If you don´t go against them, you go with them.

For you to have heard of such a thing, not only would this thing have to occur (which it does, in my experience, though assuredly more is desirable) but you would also have to learn of its occurence through personal and/or mediated experience. It is this last which apparently does not happen. This may be the fault of our own infotainment, or yours, or both. Indeed, the ownerships of mediabusiness do not seem to be restricted to national borders these days.

Georgia
Monday, May 8th, 2006, 03:42 AM
Zyklop

I don´t know if this is meant as a critic of the National Resistance in Germany or a serious question.

When it comes to matters of importance I am dead serious!


Zyklop:

I can tell you that, besides America-bashing on internet forums,

America-bashing has become the number one "Sport" by many. I don't think I have to spell out the name of the group which is mostly responsible for this character assassination. They have learned well from their enemy.


Zyklop


there are many initiatives that are aimed at recreating a national consciousness among Germans again, often carried out under serious personal risk.


Good! Perhaps they need to do more so they wont have so much time wishing for the demise of America. One could say that those who laugh last have the best laugh. I happen to believe that 'They that sow in tears shall reap in joy.'





Zitat from Georgia:
So far much of what I have read in the forum, especially in the
German posts, is a "hatred" against everything that is "American." And
this hate is directed not just toward the U.S. government, but against
the Bevoelkerung as well, since we are, among other things, nothing but a "Dreckvolk."

Response from Zyklop:
Those who identify with the US. No one else.



This is NOT TRUE! And you know it!




Zitat from Georgia:
There are millions of people living in what is known as the U.S.,
descendants of the Germanic people and others, who do NOT agree with what the U.S. government has done in the past nor what it is doing today.

Response from Zyklop:
Then why do they still identify with the system and wave its flag?



For the same reason that Germans identify themselves as BRD citizens and fly the BRD flag. The results of years of indoctrination via the Public School System and the Talmudian Press.




Zitat from Georgia:
I do not wish for America to be reduced to another Third World
country nor do I wish for America's destruction. Becoming a Third World
country would of course be our demise.

Response from Zyklop:
So you think calling back your worldwide occupation troops, puppet
governments and plastic culture would turn the US into a Third World
country?



You have taken my response totally out of context and are trying to
misrepresent its meaning. Brings back memories about the Clintonesque style.


The American forefathers gave "Americans," whether of German or other European ancestry, a constitutional republic.These united States of America began its national career on the stunningly elevated principle that men's rights come not from government, but from their God. No greater bulwark against political tyranny ever existed anywhere. This republic became a great country in a very short period of time.
A constitutional republic HAS PROVEN TO BE the best form of government. I believe that most patriotic Americans would agree.

Yet, the evil of this world would not stand for this!
So the attacks started.....1861, an almost fatal blow.
The second one was the 13th and 14th Amendment (neither one of them were ever legally ratified). They all but nullified the 9th, 10th and 11th Amendment.
And I could go on........and on.........We are living in perilous times.

Despite all of this, the spirit of liberty is still found among so many "American" people. America will survive despite all the ill wishes. I am sure of it.
Georgia

Zyklop
Monday, May 8th, 2006, 03:54 PM
Good! Perhaps they need to do more so they wont have so much time wishing for the demise of America.Although I´m sure you´re an expert on the national resistance in Germany by occasionally peeping in the German section here, the suggestions by non-Germans may not necessarily be taken in consideration. :shrug


One could say that those who laugh last have the best laugh. I happen to believe that 'They that sow in tears shall reap in joy.' I can´t make anything out of this oracle. Is it a threat?


For the same reason that Germans identify themselves as BRD citizens and fly the BRD flag. The results of years of indoctrination via the Public School System and the Talmudian Press. I´m not talking about the average yokel but those who actually should know better. Especially among the so called "White-Nationalists", or Germanic preservationists.


The American forefathers gave "Americans," whether of German or other European ancestry, a constitutional republic.These united States of America began its national career on the stunningly elevated principle that men's rights come not from government, but from their God. No greater bulwark against political tyranny ever existed anywhere. This republic became a great country in a very short period of time.
A constitutional republic HAS PROVEN TO BE the best form of government. I believe that most patriotic Americans would agree.

Yet, the evil of this world would not stand for this!
So the attacks started.....1861, an almost fatal blow.
The second one was the 13th and 14th Amendment (neither one of them were ever legally ratified). They all but nullified the 9th, 10th and 11th Amendment.
And I could go on........and on.........We are living in perilous times.

Despite all of this, the spirit of liberty is still found among so many "American" people. America will survive despite all the ill wishes. I am sure of it.
GeorgiaCool!

Leofric
Monday, May 8th, 2006, 07:28 PM
Okay, where are the German-Americans who publicly protest against these traitors? Aren´t you guys always pointing out the freedom of speech over there? Political prosecution is extreme in Germany but still there are many pro-German demonstrations each year, for example Dresden, Halbe, Wunsiedel etc. Never heard of anything like this happening in the land of the free.
If you don´t go against them, you go with them.
Well, I can't speak for the German Americans, because I am not German. I also think from your response that you might be talking about a different kind of treason than the treason I was talking about. I was talking about betraying the Constitution — treason against a country. You seem to be talking about treason against a nation. I don't follow the internal matters of the German nation in all its locations very closely.

I do, however, follow the struggle to protect and restore the Constitution quite closely. And in that struggle, there is a great deal going on. There are various political parties dedicated to restoring the supremacy of the Constitution (some of which I support financially and through volunteer service). There are many other organizations working toward the same end (which I similarly support). There are many rallies and meetings (which I attend). There are many publications (which I help distribute). There is a ground-swell of grassroots support — and by ground-swell, I mean millions of people — for the whole movement (of which I am a part, and which I seek daily to propagate). Even a few of the folks in the United States' Congress are active members of the movement to restore the supremacy of the 1787 Constitution.

Some of this gets C-SPAN coverage (usually on weekends and on the 'extra' C-SPAN channels). None of it gets mainstream media coverage. From what I have gathered, most urban folks here in the States don't even know it's going on (even though it happens in the cities, too). I am not at all surprised that news of all this activity has not crossed the oceans.

But I can assure you that there is a great deal being done to fight against the traitors, even if you happen to have not heard of it.

Georgia
Tuesday, May 9th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Zyklop:

I can´t make anything out of this oracle. Is it a threat?

Threat?

Dictionary definition of the word threat:
An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment.

I don't understand how a well-read man like you could come to such a conclusion. I have never threatened anyone in my entire life, though I have been threatened at times by others. But this is classified information:) just as my "peeping" (your word, not mine) "occasionally into the German section here."

Greetings from the great State of Georgia:thumbup - Georgia

Thumelicus
Tuesday, May 9th, 2006, 09:47 PM
@Georgia

I don't know what path your life took to bring you to the States at the tender age of 18. However, I have to say, that when my mother would talk about "Amis", I always knew that she never meant me. Yes, I was born in the USA.

Georgia
Tuesday, May 9th, 2006, 11:27 PM
I don't know what path your life took to bring you to the States at the tender age of 18. However, I have to say, that when my mother would talk about "Amis", I always knew that she never meant me. Yes, I was born in the USA.

Amis is a derogatory word used when talking about Americans used by anti-American Germans. Though I can see why Germans use this term for the occupation force in Germany, I consider its use to describe the average American of European descent as an insult. I put the word Kraut, when describing Germans, in the same category. I tolerate neither one of the words around me. Nor does my family or our friends.

I never refer to myself or to my family as an Ami(s), nor does my family in Germany.

I do not glorify any nation, whether Germans or Americans. There are good people and bad people among both nations.

Actually, I was quite independent when I was 18. Having graduated from the Kaufmaennische Berufsschule at 17, I had a great job at the Daimler-Benz AG as a Stenokontoristin. At 18 I was already in the work force for one year, saving my money, so I could travel the world. My Papa raised me to stand on my own two feet. Providence (a word that Adolf Hitler used quite a bit) had different plans for me:).

Georgia

Zyklop
Wednesday, May 10th, 2006, 04:15 PM
Amis is a derogatory word used when talking about Americans used by anti-American Germans. Sorry, but this is the biggest nonsense I´ve read since long. "Ami" simply is short for "Amerikaner" and has no offensive meaning at all. I wonder if you really grew up here.

Georgia
Wednesday, May 10th, 2006, 09:36 PM
Sorry, but this is the biggest nonsense I´ve read since long. "Ami" simply is short for "Amerikaner" and has no offensive meaning at all. I wonder if you really grew up here.

What you consider nonsense isn't necessarily, actually more than likely never, what I consider nonsense!

We can go around and around and around. It ain't gonna get us nowhere.....and frankly, I just ain't got the time....

Anyone wants to pick up the theme of the thread or has everything been covered?
Greetings - Georgia:)

Nordgau
Thursday, May 11th, 2006, 02:28 PM
"Amis" is indeed not necessarily derogatory, but generally just colloquial. Also people who belong to the pro-American fraction in the poltical spectrum may use it and mean it even friendly.

Georgia
Thursday, May 11th, 2006, 02:40 PM
Nordgau

"Amis" is indeed not necessarily derogatory,

So we agree to disagree;) ?
Georgia

Nordgau
Thursday, May 11th, 2006, 03:11 PM
So we agree to disagree;) ?

Maybe; but the fact stays that many people in Germany speak of Americans as "Amis" and mean this just as a short name, as a nickname, but not as an insult. In common political talk the Bush fan can use it just as much as the Bush hater.

Make e .g. a simple search with that keyword on this "USA-Forum" ("Exchange about life and travel in the USA") which is certainly not dominated by Phlegethon and friends:

http://www.talkaboutusa.com/index.php?sid=69737c4b72c7f998ffa9adc79d 652093

Æmeric
Thursday, May 11th, 2006, 04:24 PM
Maybe; but the fact stays that many people in Germany speak of Americans as "Amis" and mean this just as a short name, as a nickname, but not as an insult. In common political talk the Bush fan can use it just as much as the Bush hater.

I've never heard of the term "Amis" before. Weather it is durogatory or not may depend on your generation. I have the impression that Georgia is in her early 50's meaning she came of age in the late 60's, early 70's. What may have been vulgar or durogatory then may not seem so to a younger person in the 21st century. I've noticed this over my own lifetime. It's what some people refer to as "deviance down" that is the lowering of community standards. Take my word for it, vulgarity is much more common today then it was 25 or 30 years ago, and younger people just do'nt realize how far we've fallen.



(http://www.talkaboutusa.com/index.php?sid=69737c4b72c7f998ffa9adc79d 652093)

Thumelicus
Friday, May 12th, 2006, 06:18 AM
I've never heard of the term "Amis" before. Weather it is durogatory or not may depend on your generation.

The word "Amischlitten", for example, has existed since my mom's generation (she's probably at least a few years older than Georgia) and it basically means just the old American-type sedans, characteristically big with lots of steel and a wide turning radius that Detroit used to build.

I don't think "Ami" was ever explicitly an insult, although it's one of those things that may depend on one's living situation. Some people become sensitized. A mixed family, for example, might have had more problems than others.

Leofric
Sunday, May 14th, 2006, 02:13 AM
As one who studies language change, I can tell you that it is not at all uncommon for words to pejorate or ameliorate in the amount of time that Georgia seems to have been living in the States. A word that might have been strongly pejorative in earlier decades could easily be neutral now just as a positive word from earlier decades could easily be unspeakable now. This is especially true of slang words, but is not limited thereto.

Some examples:

gay was a very positive word in the 1950's that has since pejorated severely
leg was a very naughty word in Victorian times that has since returned to being neutral
niggardly has always been a very fine English word to talk (in a somewhat derogatory manner) about being miserly, but recently high-status members of society have been fired for using it, since it sounds so much like the very taboo word ****** (which is so taboo, that even Skadi disallows it ;) ).
Adolf is a fine German name that has fallen into stark disfavor in recent decades
bad used to be the definitive word for bad things, but came (briefly) to be used for positively
dog in reference to people was universally offensive as recently as my own boyhood, but has since become quite positive and fashionable in certain circles (I have even known people who have asked me to call them "dog" instead of calling them by name)
dude was a pejorative reference to urban dwellers who didn't know how to function when placed in rural society, or even (through generalization) anyone who didn't know how to accomplish some simple task, but has since come to have general, neutral application to any male.When regional variation is factored in (which is huge in discussions of slang terms), it becomes very easy to believe that in the speech community where Georgia grew up, Ami could have carried pejorative weight that it now universally lacks.


Maybe; but the fact stays that many people in Germany speak of Americans as "Amis" and mean this just as a short name, as a nickname, but not as an insult. In common political talk the Bush fan can use it just as much as the Bush hater.
Very good linguistic point, and I'm glad you make it.

As a side note (and I know this is not integral to the example you chose, which is a fine example), a person can be very pro-American and very anti-Bush at the same time. A person can also be very pro-Bush and very anti-American. I know you know that, Nordgau — I just wanted it on the Skadi record. :)

Nordgau
Sunday, May 14th, 2006, 03:06 PM
Adolf is fine German name that has fallen into stark disfavor in recent decades

Not everywhere. :D

Thumelicus
Sunday, May 14th, 2006, 08:17 PM
When regional variation is factored in (which is huge in discussions of slang terms), it becomes very easy to believe that in the speech community where Georgia grew up, Ami could have carried pejorative weight that it now universally lacks.

I should point out that the word "American" itself can be used in a pejorative sense just about everywhere in the world, including the United States, that's the only sense in which "Ami" would ever have been used as a pejorative.


A person can also be very pro-Bush and very anti-American. I know you know that, Nordgau — I just wanted it on the Skadi record.

Simply because a person might have a good laugh at Bush's failures and support the general lessening of American influence caused by his reign doesn't make them genuinely pro-Bush. An ardent Bush supporter (are there any left? LOL!) would certainly object to a person like that.

nätdeutsch
Sunday, September 3rd, 2006, 11:05 PM
http://forums.skadi.net/photoplog/images/2152/1_Top_US_Ancestries_by_county__Census_-_2000_data-_.jpg


By the looks of this census, most americans consider themselves of german heritage, predominantly. i think this is interesting, and makes me proud germans have procreated in the New World so sucessfully;)

of note..i was suprised puerto ricans consider themselves ethnically puerto rican!

wow!

Esther_Helena
Monday, September 4th, 2006, 11:20 AM
I like how they have American Indian and American. I wonder what they mean by "American."

Æmeric
Monday, September 4th, 2006, 03:17 PM
"American" is an ancestry mostly picked by White/Europid individuals who ancestors came here many generations ago. It's most common in the South & parts of New England. Most persons claiming "American" ancestry are of predominately English/Scottish/Welsh ancestry with smaller amounts of German, Dutch & Huguenot ancestry from colonial times. Many persons of similar background do not claim an ancestry/ethnicity because they associate ethnicity as meaning other than Anglo-Saxon/British or for example they might claim their 1/4 German heritage but ignore their 3/4 English ancestry. That is why the English/British component of the American population is usually underestimated.

Esther_Helena
Tuesday, September 5th, 2006, 08:42 AM
Speaking of heritage, does anyone know where I could get some images of traditional costumes. More specifically Baden-Baden or Badem-Wurtemburg. (Gods, I hope I spelled that right.)

Theudanaz
Tuesday, September 5th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Speaking of heritage, does anyone know where I could get some images of traditional costumes. More specifically Baden-Baden or Badem-Wurtemburg. (Gods, I hope I spelled that right.)

Here are some pictures of old Trachts from Baden!
http://volkstanz.at/Trachten/Trachteneinteilung.htm

Click on Germany, then on the state in the southwest, then you have a series of old illustrations of Baden from its various regions. Those with "Bäuerin" or "Braut" in the title will give you females.:thumbup

Kaiser
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 09:19 AM
Unfortunately, however, America is fast becoming a mongrel haven with the interbreeding of Whites with negroids and even mexican illegal aliens.

Georgia
Friday, October 6th, 2006, 04:39 AM
"Guten Tag"


In Southern Germany we just say "Grüß Gott"




October 6th is German-American Day!
http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/Jamestown/first.htmlTherefore, Germans were present at the creation of this nation. The Germans who came to Jamestown in 1608 and subsequently in 1620 were the forerunners of the largest nationality to immigrate to the united States since its founding in 1776.

It is a day to honor the contributions, life, heritage and culture of Germans in America,
"and of course their contributions as they joined the Southland to fight the federal invaders." Below are just a few of the many:

On the Southern side, surely one of the most interesting German figures was JEB Stuart's aide, Major Johann August Heinrich Heros Von Borcke. A tall, handsome blond young man in the German ideal, Von Borcke came from an old Prussian military family of the titled nobility. Serving in the Second Brandenburg Regiment of Dragoons at the time the Civil War began, either from boredom with garrison duty or due to an argument with his father, young Heros departed for the Confederacy, landing in Charleston, South Carolina, in May 1862. Introduced to JEB Stuart by Confederate Secretary of War George Randolph, Von Borcke quickly became a dear friend of the equally young Confederate cavalier, and from then on the Prussian was rarely far from Stuart's side. Despite a regrettable tendency to ascribe to himself a number of exploits which were actually the actions of others, Von Borcke's writings about his year on Stuart's staff and subsequent adventures in Virginia following his near-fatal wounding in June 1863 are entertaining and fill in a number of historical gaps. He was beloved and admired by his Confederate comrades.
Von Borcke returned to Prussia and served his native land in a war with Austria in 1866; to his amusement and pleasure, the famous Austrian military genius Helmuth von Moltke greeted him with the words, "Are you not the American?" Forced to an early retirement in 1867 due to a Yankee bullet he still carried in his lung, Von Borcke married and had three sons. When he inherited a castle and estate at Giesenbrugge, it was his delight to fly the Confederate flag from its battlements. He died in 1895, reminiscing fondly about his days as a Confederate right up to the end.
Source: The Civil War Society's "Encyclopedia of the Civil War."

Another German, Charles Frederick Ernest Minnigerode, was pastor to Jefferson Davis, Christian president of the Confederate States of America: http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/minnigerode/minnigerode.html (http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/minnigerode/minnigerode.html)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.1st-texas-cavalry.com/1sttexfootrifles.htm (http://www.1st-texas-cavalry.com/1sttexfootrifles.htm)
81538RESURGAM

http://www.1st-texas-cavalry.com/1sttexfootrifles.htm


German text
http://www.37thtexas.org/html/gerfus1.html

English text
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.37thtexas.org/html/gerfus1.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DThe%2BGerman%2BFusiliers%2B 8th%2BAlabama%2BInfantry%26hl%3Den%26lr% 3D%26ie%3DUTF-8

http://www.1st-texas-cavalry.com/buchl-e.htm#Seitenbeginn

Georgia
Friday, October 6th, 2006, 04:51 AM
http://batsonsm.tripod.com/b/arba2.html (http://batsonsm.tripod.com/b/arba2.html)





South Carolina Artillery

Artillery Batteries
Ferguson's Battery
Charleston German Artillery, Company A
Charleston German Artillery, Company B
Gist Guard Artillery
Johnson's Horse Artillery
Lafayette Battery
Macbeth Artillery



German Militärkompanien, which had recruited themselves mainly from German Miliztruppen, into the service of the Konföderation, under it the "Light Battery A" under Captain F.W. Wagener, the "Light Battery B" under Captain F. Melchers and the "Light Battery B, Hampton's Legion" under Captain Bachman, who had studied law in Göttingen, in order to be able to open in Charleston a lawyer and a notary's office suitable for German clients.
1st South Carolina Artillery--- Colonel J. A. Wagener
http://www.ehistory.com/uscw/library/or/028/0719.cfm (http://www.ehistory.com/uscw/library/or/028/0719.cfm)
German Volunteers-Bachman's Battery-Charleston ...

After the surrender at Appomattox many of the German Confederates left their Southern homes returning to the land of their birth. They chose to live under a monarchy rather than going through reconstruction which was forced upon the conquered and occupied Southern Nation.

Get out your German flag and display it proudly.
81542

Georgia
Friday, October 6th, 2006, 04:54 AM
LEARN SOME GERMAN!
GOOD MORNING - Guten Morgen - [GOOTen MOR-gen]
GOOD DAY - Guten Tag - [GOOTen targ]
HOW ARE YOU? - Wie geht es Ihnen? - [VEE gate es
EE-nen?]
GOOD BYE - Auf Wiedersehen - [Owf VEEder zay-en]
THANKS - Danke [Danker]
YES - Ja - [Yah]
NO - Nein - [Nine]
NUMBERS
ZERO - null - [nool]
ONE - eins - [eye-ns]
TWO - zwei - [tsv'eye]
THREE - drei - [dry]
FOUR - vier - [fear]
FIVE - fünf - [fewnf]
SIX - sechs - [zex]
SEVEN - sieben - [ZEE-ben]
EIGHT - acht - [acht]
NINE - neun - [noyn]
TEN - zehn - [zayn]
DAYS
MONDAY - Montag - [MON-targ]
TUESDAY - Dienstag - [DEANS-targ]
WEDNESDAY - Mittwoch - [MIT-voch] --
THURSDAY - Donnerstag - [DONNERS-targ]
FRIDAY - Freitag - [FRY-targ]
SATURDAY - Samstag - [ZAMS-targ]
SUNDAY - Sonntag - [ZONN-targ]

DELICIOUS TRADITIONAL GERMAN DISHES
YUMMY SOFT GERMAN PRETZEL
(makes 12)
Instead of sprinkling the pretzels
with coarse salt before
baking, brush some with butter and sprinkle with
sugar and cinnamon for
a sweet treat!

Ingredients:
1 cup warm water
1 package dry active yeast
1 1/2 cups flour
2 tbs. vegetable oil
1/2 tsp. salt
1 1/4 cup flour
4 cups water
2 tbs. baking soda
2 tbs. coarse salt
Dissolve the yeast in the warm water and let stand for
10 minutes. Add the
vegetable oil, salt and 1 1/2 cups flour. Stir
togrther until thoroughly
combined. Add remaining flour and knead dough for 5
minutes. Let the dough
rest for 1 hour.
Divide the dough into 12 equal shapes and reform them
into small balls. Let
them rest for 15 minutes. Roll them into 18" lengths
and form them into
pretzel shapes or cut each length in half to make
sticks. Preheat oven to
475 degrees.
In a large pot, place the baking soda and water to a
boil. Let the pretzels
rise for a 1/2 hour. Add the pretzels to the boiling
water for 1 minute.
Remove and place on a greased sheet pan. Sprinkle with
coarse salt and bake
for 12 minutes."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Schwarzwälder Kirschtorte. Delicious! It's not at all difficult to bake, so carefully study the recipe below, put on your apron, and get started!
Ingredients:
===============
PASTRY:
1 2/3 cups all-purpose flour
1 1/2 cups white sugar
2/3 cup unsweetened cocoa powder
1 1/2 teaspoons baking soda
1 teaspoon salt
1 1/2 cups (butter-) milk
1/2 cup shortening
2 eggs
1 teaspoon vanilla
1/2 cup Schwarzwälder Kirschwasser (I used home-made cherry liquor)
FILLING:
1 cup sugar powder
1 pinch salt
1 can (0.5 liter) pitted cherries, drained
1 cup heavy whipping cream
1/2 teaspoon vanilla
1 tablespoon kirschwasser
TOPPING
1 square semisweet chocolate, or remaining crumbs
Baking:
==========
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Line the bottoms of two 8 inch round pans with parchment paper circles (since I didn't have such paper, I just greased the pans). Sift together flour, cocoa, baking soda and 1 teaspoon salt. Set aside.
Cream shortening and sugar until light and fluffy. Add eggs and beat well. Add vanilla. Add flour mixture, alternating with milk, beat until combined.
Pour into 2 round 8 inch pans. Bake for 35 to 40 minutes, or until a toothpick inserted into the cake comes out clean. Cool completely. Remove paper (if any) from under the cakes. Cut each layer in half, horizontally, making 4 layers total. Sprinkle layers with 1/2 cup Kirschwasser.
In a separate bowl, whip the cream to stiff peaks. Beat in 1/2 teaspoon vanilla and 1 tablespoon Kirschwasser. Add sugar powder, and a pinch of salt. Beat again. Spread first layer of cake with 1/3 of the filling (use 1/2 of the filling if you have only 2 layers instead of 4). Top with 1/3 (2/3) of the cherries. Repeat with the remaining layer(s).
Frost top and sides of cake. Sprinkle with chocolate curls made by using a potato peeler on semisweet baking chocolate. Or you can use the remaining crumbs to sprinkle the sides of the cake.
Now, get your cup of tea or coffee, and Guten Appetit!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ingredients for Glühwein (Lechner's Kochbuch).


3 cups
red wine
1 cup
water
1/2
cinnamon stick
3
cloves
1/2
lemon's juice
some


lemon peel




Mix and heat up everything (don't let it boil, though); serve hot.
And a variation:
Take a huge pot or kettle. Place in it 1/2 cup of water. Add 1 tbsp ground cinnamon and 1 tbsp ground cloves and juice of 1 lemon. Bring to a boil. Add a 4-liter jug of burgundy (or other cheap red wine). Heat, but make sure the temperature stays below 170 degrees Fahrenheit (boiling point of ethyl alcohol). Add sugar to taste and brandy for additional wallop if the outside temperature drops below 0. Walk home, don't drive!

Georgia:)

Weiler
Monday, October 9th, 2006, 01:26 AM
There is a good chance that you are related to them as Bartelheimer is a quite rare and localised family name in Germany:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=7447&stc=1&d=1137829789
Geogen (http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen.aspx)
What a nifty tool!

I just did Weiler and got the following relative distribution:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2255/weilerdistributionsr1.jpg

This is interesting since the Weiler side of my family comes from the Hamburg area.

Teutonic
Friday, December 15th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Yay! Making me finally able to rest at 3.35 AM...good to know that. I had always been afraid that a lot of "Germans" in the US were Jews. But good to hear that it isn't the case; and a Vinlander himself must know. :)

the german-jews are mostly in bigger cities such as newyork, phili etc. the real german-americans are mostly in the midwest states such as minnesota,northdakota,wisconsin, illinois, indiana and ohio.my family has been here since the early 1900's i think my grandfather ludvig came here 1905 but i forget.most german americans are from farming communities and their for stick to eachother and dont mix and if they do it is a rare occurance.my family on both sides still to some extent still speak German, and at family gatherings all you hear is german, except for us grandkinder who are more americanized for school and business puposes.and my family is not the only one speaking german, in northdakota where my family is from i hear german being spoke in coffee shops restaurants and at family gatherings of friends of mine. most german-americans ever since ww2 have become to a large extent invisiable to blend in with american society, who before ww2 were some of the proudest Germans you would ever see.

Oswiu
Friday, December 15th, 2006, 05:35 PM
Maybe the Swedes have just spread over a larger territory so that they're not majority in anywhere. I think there should be lots of Swedes around the area where there is Finns and Norwegians.


I live in Washinton state, and from what I've noticed, there are a lot of people of German heritage, but there is also a large population of people with Norwegian and Swedish backgrounds... In fact, a large majority of my friends are of Scandinavian decent, yet the map didn't even take into consideration that these areas of Nordic populations do exist (somewhat prevalently) here, in Washington. :scratch:

The map's done on a county by county basis, but you can look especially for Swedes in the other maps;
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/swedish.gif
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/swedish.gif
It seems that Our Lot had filled up the hither parts of the USA, so your lot had to go a little bit further. ;)
Comparing with the other Scandinavians;
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/danish.gif
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/norweg.gif
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/maps/ancestry/us/finnish.gif
THey're all pretty near each other [momentarily overlooking the apparent Danish weakness for religious Nutterism ;)], so I wonder if being away from home but with old neighbours has enabled the formation of a more general Nordic identity [like how Australia and New Zealand allowed for the development of a British race that had been separate back Home], or has a more general American one overtaken this?

burnitdown
Monday, February 12th, 2007, 12:35 AM
The high amount of German ancestry, and the Low amount of English ancestry.

It would make more sense if they grouped "Anglo-Celtic" together, because many of the English interbred with Scots and blonde Irish once in the new world. Since Anglo-Celts are at minimum 70% German on average, and America is still roughly 60% German-American, we're basically a (misguided) German country.

And Texas is all Germans and Scots :)

Leofric
Monday, February 12th, 2007, 04:45 AM
It would make more sense if they grouped "Anglo-Celtic" together, because many of the English interbred with Scots and blonde Irish once in the new world.
Ah, but many of those Scots were lowland Scots of Angle blood. And many of the blond Irish who came during the colonial period were of Norse ancestry.



Since Anglo-Celts are at minimum 70% German on average, and America is still roughly 60% German-American, we're basically a (misguided) German country.
How exactly are Anglo-Celts at minimum 70% German on average? That makes no sense whatsoever.

And America is far from being 60% German. If you group together all ethnicities from the British Isles (as you have just suggested we do), then the overwhelmingly largest ethnic group in the United States is British — not German. And the United States has more ethnic Germans than any other country in America, to be sure.

Oswiu
Monday, February 12th, 2007, 04:53 AM
many of the English interbred with Scots and blonde Irish once in the new world.
Forgive me butting in, but 'Blond Irish'? :scratch
I've never heard that one before, despite my Irish family. Must be only a US thing? Who uses it, and what do they mean?

Æmeric
Monday, February 12th, 2007, 02:43 PM
And what the heck is "American"? Mixed or unsure?

Most persons claiming American are of old colonial era stock, mostly Anglo-Saxon mixed with other northwestern European stock,e.g. Scottish, Welsh, maybe with some amounts of Dutch, German & Huguenot. "Americans" have roots going back in America for many generations, which is why they no longer claim a European ancestry. Also, tens of millions of Americans, I believe it was around 50 million in 2000, do not claim an ancestry. Most of these fall into the same category as "American", that is mostly Anglo-Saxon, maybe mixed with other northwestern European stock.

burnitdown:
It would make more sense if the grouped "Anglo-Celtic" together, because many of the English interbred with the Scots and blond Irish once in the New World. Since Anglo-Celts are at minimum 70% German on average and America is still roughly 60% German-American, we're basically a (misguided) German countryWhen you use the phrase "German" in the above paragraph do mean Germanic. I know America isn't 60% "Deutsch" but it is between 50%-60% Germanic in the way the word is used at Skadi.

Leofric:
If you group together all the ethnicities from the British Isles (as you have just suggested we do) then the overwhelmingly largest ethnic group in the United States is British- not German. Oh Leofric, how many times do we have to explain this :confused? For decades the multiculturalists have been trying to suppress the fact that the English/British were/are the largest ethnic group in the US. Some people have the impression that nobody came to America before Ellis Island open. When will people realize that White America is not evenly divided between the various European ethnicities? Or that most White Americans are not German/Deutsch? If the US was as heavily German as most people seem to think, we would not have fought Germany in two World Wars.

PeterThaGreat
Monday, February 12th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Most persons claiming American are of old colonial era stock, mostly Anglo-Saxon mixed with other northwestern European stock,e.g. Scottish, Welsh, maybe with some amounts of Dutch, German & Huguenot. "Americans" have roots going back in America for many generations, which is why they no longer claim a European ancestry. Also, tens of millions of Americans, I believe it was around 50 million in 2000, do not claim an ancestry. Most of these fall into the same category as "American", that is mostly Anglo-Saxon, maybe mixed with other northwestern European stock.


As said tens of times, the "hidden" and most comprising etnicity in US by far is the English. My cousins case illustrates the missinforming etnic data very well. He is half English (father old stock american almoust entirely English) and mother citizen of Finland, Finlandssvensk, yet his whole identity is built on the fact that he is Finnish-American, although he does not speak Finnish or even Swedish and is not a citizen of Finland. He could claim he is English but I guess its not enough cool for him, hence he is chosen to cling on the more recent etnic side of his family and would most likely to report himself just as Finnish descent in every survey and leave to whole British side in him unmentioned.

burnitdown
Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 01:27 AM
When you use the phrase "German" in the above paragraph do mean Germanic. I know America isn't 60% "Deutsch" but it is between 50%-60% Germanic in the way the word is used at Skadi.

First sentence doesn't part; answer to second is, no, I mean German. 60% German heritage for the JCSA.

Leofric
Sunday, February 25th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Forgive me butting in, but 'Blond Irish'? :scratch
I've never heard that one before, despite my Irish family. Must be only a US thing? Who uses it, and what do they mean?
I've often heard Black Irish or Dark Irish to refer to the darker-complected Irish folks. I had never heard a term for the fairer, blond- or red-haired Irish, but when I hear Blond Irish, that's definitely the group I would associate them with.

There might be some difference in the way they're treated — Dark Irish folks might be hated a bit more than Blond Irish floks. But I don't really know about that. Maybe if I lived in New England. Out west, Irishmen of any color are quite a bit rarer.




@burnitdown:
But you can't mean that 70% of Anglo-Celts are German. That makes no sense. If they're Anglo-Celtic, then they're ancestry is either English (which is not German), or it's Celtic (which is not German).

I can't help but think that you're confusing the terms German and Germanic.

Torquil
Thursday, March 29th, 2007, 03:39 PM
I remember reading somewhere that early German settlers in the Midwest want to form an autonomous state of their own, separate from the US. Has anyone else heard of this?

Þórir
Thursday, September 20th, 2007, 12:37 PM
"This video concerns some of the more famous German-Americans.

From NASA to the creator of 'The Simpsons' to Fred Astaire to George Steinbrenner and the architect of the Brooklyn Bridge, this video seeks to give a brief glimpse into the magnitude of their achievements in America.

Germans are strongly interwoven into the fabric of America."

WMTFfhqnMXM

Dagna
Sunday, November 25th, 2007, 01:39 PM
German Achievements in America
by Rudolf Cronau (1916)

NOTE:Copyright on the original work has expired.


Introduction
Mediaeval Germany and the Causes of German Emigration (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau2.html)
German Predecessors of the Puritans (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau3.html)
Pastorius and the Settlers of Germantown (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau4.html)
The Coming of the Palatines (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau5.html)
The Life of the German Settlers in Colonial Times (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau6.html)
Promoters of the Cause of Liberty (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau7.html)
Heroes in the War of Independence (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau8.html)
Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben, the Organizer of the American Army
Pioneers of the Ohio Region
Pioneers of the Mississippi Valley and the Far West
The Men of 1848 (http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/cronau12.html)
Distinguished Germans in American Politics
The German Americans in the Wars of the 19th Century
Leaders in Agriculture, Industry and Commerce
The North American Turner Bund and its Influence on the Physical Development of the American Nation
The Influence of German Learning and Methods on Education in the US
Eminent Scientists
Great Engineers
Organizers of American traffic and Transportation
The German-American Press
Noteworthy Authors and Poets
German Music and Song in America
The German Drama and Opera in the US
Well-known Artists, Sculptors and Architects
German-American Women and their Works
Monuments of Philanthropy
The National German American Alliance and its Purposes
The Future Mission of the German Element in America


http://www.germanheritage.com/Publications/cronau/index.html

Dagna
Tuesday, December 4th, 2007, 11:10 AM
The German-Americans an Ethnic Experience, by Willi Paul Adams
Original German Title: Die Deutschen im Schmelztiegel der USA: Erfahrungen im grössten Einwanderungsland der Europäer

http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/images/head.jpg (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fcover.htm l)

Preface: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fpreface.h tml) Dear Reader
Chapter One: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap1.htm l) Seven Million Germans Were Once "Foreigners"
Chapter Two: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap2.htm l) Why Germans Left Home
Chapter Three: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap3.htm l) Whereto? Germans Joined Germans
Chapter Four: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap4.htm l) Inequality: Incomes, Occupations, Social Structure
Chapter Five: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap5.htm l) Likes Attract: German Clubs and the Display of "Germanness" Chapter Six: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap6.htm l) German-American Churches and Schools
Chapter Seven: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap7.htm l) German or English?
Chapter Eight: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap8.htm l) Ethnic Politics: German-Americans as Voters and Office-Seekers
Chapter Nine: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap9.htm l) Xenophobia: American Nativism
Chapter Ten: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap10.ht ml) American Laws Regulating Immigration and Asylum
Chapter Eleven: (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-lib.iupui.edu%2Fkade%2Fadams%2Fchap11.ht ml) Integration: The Ideas of Cultural Pluralism


http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/adams/toc.html

Teutonic
Friday, December 14th, 2007, 12:14 AM
thats a good book i have that one and this one.

Germans in Minnesota by kathleen Neils Conzen

the germancorner has lots of everything.

www.germancorner.com

Deutsch Amerikanischer National Kongress

www.dank.org/

Teutonic
Friday, January 11th, 2008, 08:04 PM
i didnt know where to put this. but by far one of the most beautiful parts of this book. I have had this put almost everywhere i can. i believe it speaks to the heart mind and soul of all German-Americans. I know for a fact it speaks to and for my German soul.

Being German-American is a very personal thing. We want and we find external independence here, a free middle-class way of life, uninhibited progress in industrial development, in short, political freedom. To this extent we are completely American. We build our houses the way Americans do, but inside there is a German hearth that glows. We wear an American hat, but under its brim German eyes peer forth from a German face. We love our wives with German fidelity. . . We live according to what is customary in America, but we hold dear our German customs and traditions. We speak English, but we think and feel in German. Our reason speaks with the words of an Anglo-American, but our hearts understand only our mother tongue. While our eyes are fixed on an American horizon, in our souls the dear old German sky arches upward. Our entire emotional lives are, in a word, German, and anything that would satisfy our inner longing must appear in German attire [Cincinnati Volksfreund, Nov. 13, 1 848].

norski
Tuesday, July 19th, 2011, 06:12 PM
CNN Link Here (http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/07/19/new.braunfels.german.heritage/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)

Wulfram
Tuesday, July 19th, 2011, 06:38 PM
I have family in New Braunfels. There has been talk for some time about trying to reconnect with its past.
But, if you really want a Texas-German experience I recommend you visit Fredericksberg instead.


Case in point: Schlitterbahn, the flagship water park that has sprouted three satellite locations since it opened in 1966. Occupying more than 65 acres on the eastern banks of the Comal River -- and growing -- the business is second-generation family owned and operated.

With ride names such as Blastenhoff, Surfenburg and Tubenbach, and a replica of the guard tower in Braunfels looming over the park, visible from blocks away, park spokesman Jeffrey Siebert says kitsch is part of Schlitterbahn's charm, but says it's also part of paying homage to New Braunfels' German roots.

I have been to the Schlitterbahn a few times, and I can assure you the kitsch does not add ANY charm. :D

TXRog
Tuesday, July 19th, 2011, 08:30 PM
I grew up in San Antonio and used to go up there and visit with my folks often and have several friends from high school who live there (many of them work at the Scooter Store). I also used to go up there for Wurstfest (Oktoberfest) and always had a great time. Alot of people really got into the "spirit" and there would be men wearing lederhosen and more than afew really pretty Germanic women wearing drindls and showing their "healthy" (and real) bosoms. Gotta love it!

The Schlitterbahn is always fun too.:thumbup

I remember my Dad (who spoke fluent perfect German) would speak German with many of the townspeople and we would always go to a little German bakery and get the most delicious apple strudel (never tasted better).

Sadly, New Braunfels has grown ALOT, but you can still hear German being spoken around the town.

What is really interesting and equally fascinating (and I have stated this in another thread topic comment I posted) is that the dialect the people speak in New Braunfels is from the 1850's when their ancestors immigrated from Germany to Texas. It is fun to see and hear native Germans visiting the town and speaking with the "natives." It is as though they are speaking to their own (now long dead) ancestors because this particular dialect isn't spoken in Germany anymore - at least this is what the Germans say.

There was a really nice film made a few years back about a German man who wanted to learn to play the accordion and make a "pilgrimage" to New Braunfels - the title is "Schultze Gets the Blues" (2003).

I love New Braunfels.

:D