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morfrain_encilgar
Sunday, August 8th, 2004, 07:25 PM
Here is a study of dental characters to see if Neabderthals are close to any modern population in the samples used.

Neanderthals are found to be distinct from moderns while moderns are divided into subsaharans and Europeans and Southern Mediterraneans. Qafzeh and Skhul are found to group with Subsaharans. In this study, it is found that they are closer to modern Subsaharan Africans than Upper Paleolithic Africans were. The West Asian Neanderthals are found to be closer to European neanderthals than they are to anatomically moderns.

Among the Caucasoids, Nordics are found to be closest to North Africans while Poundbury (a Roman site) is found to be closer to Upper Paleolithic Europeans. With the exception of double shovelling absence and Carabelli's cusp, Neanderthals are different to modern Europeans. Since subsaharans are found to be in some ways closer to Neanderthals, this is because of the loss of more characters in Europeans, than among the Subsaharans who retain more archaic dental characters than Europeans do.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, August 9th, 2004, 06:52 AM
As I recall, Neanderthals share a trait with UPs and their modern descendants. This trait is taurodauntism (hopefully spelled correctly) which means something like "bull toothed". In teeth it means molars or sometimes even other teeth which have enlarged roots making them look almost column-like. Neanderthals had this to a higher frequency but it is still found in modern peoples, especially Europeans. A friend of mine of Irish descent and a UP had his tooth pulled and showed it to me. It was taurodaunt.

Nordics tend to have large incisors making them look "toothy" when they smile, especially when young. This characteristic of large incisors is almost a racial characteristic.

Some Caucasians have a growth on the lingual side of their molars called Carabelli's cusp. It is rare among other races as are buccal exostosis, bony protruberances on the outside of the maxilla at the gum line, which are found in Northern Europeans. I have both. I never have heard of double shoveling outside of the New World.

morfrain_encilgar
Monday, August 9th, 2004, 11:07 AM
As I recall, Neanderthals share a trait with UPs and their modern descendants. This trait is taurodauntism (hopefully spelled correctly) which means something like "bull toothed". In teeth it means molars or sometimes even other teeth which have enlarged roots making them look almost column-like. Neanderthals had this to a higher frequency but it is still found in modern peoples, especially Europeans. A friend of mine of Irish descent and a UP had his tooth pulled and showed it to me. It was taurodaunt.

In moderns, taurodontism is thought to be the most common in Europe but there isn't a lot of data on this. Even in Caucasoids it seems to have a low frequency, and taurodontism is also identified among other races.


Nordics tend to have large incisors making them look "toothy" when they smile, especially when young. This characteristic of large incisors is almost a racial characteristic.

Large incisors are an archaic character, which seem to have been inherited from the ancestors of moderns and neanderthals. I don't think this feature, is particularly useful here.


Some Caucasians have a growth on the lingual side of their molars called Carabelli's cusp. It is rare among other races as are buccal exostosis, bony protruberances on the outside of the maxilla at the gum line, which are found in Northern Europeans. I have both. I never have heard of double shoveling outside of the New World.

Carabelli's cusp is preent in both Caucasians and in neanderthals, and it is most often found among western Europeans, but it isn't restricted to them among Caucasoids, or moderns in general. Im unsure what this means. Is it primitive or does it show migrations?

Vestmannr
Tuesday, August 10th, 2004, 03:20 AM
How about exaggerated canines in childhood?

morfrain_encilgar
Tuesday, August 10th, 2004, 03:29 AM
How about exaggerated canines in childhood?

Im not sure, Fronteirsman. I havent heard much about this.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 09:17 AM
In moderns, taurodontism is thought to be the most common in Europe but there isn't a lot of data on this. Even in Caucasoids it seems to have a low frequency, and taurodontism is also identified among other races.



Large incisors are an archaic character, which seem to have been inherited from the ancestors of moderns and neanderthals. I don't think this feature, is particularly useful here.



Carabelli's cusp is preent in both Caucasians and in neanderthals, and it is most often found among western Europeans, but it isn't restricted to them among Caucasoids, or moderns in general. Im unsure what this means. Is it primitive or does it show migrations?

The truth is painful. I am pretty low on Atlanto-med's evolutionary scale.

Stew
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 06:58 AM
What about long teeth as compared to short teeth in europeans? What subraces best represent the extremes of both?

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, September 16th, 2004, 07:26 AM
What about long teeth as compared to short teeth in europeans? What subraces best represent the extremes of both?

Nordics tend to have big medial incisors (upper). UP types tend to have big roots, especially molars. Meds. may have the smallest teeth. Tooth size is usually gaged in relation to jaw size in individuals so that Europeans, in general, tend to have more teeth than jaw room. This keeps dentists busy "straightening" teeth. Mongoloids have reduced tooth size and reduced jaw size. Negroes have large teeth and long jaws. Aust. Abos. have very large teeth, especially molars, and rarely even have 4th molars, the primitive mammalian condition. They also have large jaws.