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mav0ric
Wednesday, January 8th, 2003, 08:25 PM
White supremacist arrested in plot to kill judge
January 8, 2003

ASSOCIATED PRESS




The leader of a white supremacist group a member of which once went on a shooting spree that killed minorities in Illinois and Indiana, was arrested by federal agents Wednesday on charges of soliciting the murder of U.S. District Court Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow.

Matt Hale, a 31-year-old East Peoria man, was arrested by agents of the FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force as he arrived in Chicago's federal courthouse for a contempt of court hearing in a trademark infringement lawsuit.

U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald scheduled a news conference for 3 p.m. at the courthouse to discuss the case.

Federal officials said press credentials would be strictly enforced at the news conference to prevent Hale followers from gaining entrance.

A two-count indictment returned by a federal grand jury charged Hale, the self-appointed head of the World Church of the Creator, with attempting between Nov. 29 and Dec. 17 to get another individual to kill Lefkow.

Lefkow has been presiding over the trademark infringement suit and on Dec. 13 issued an order requiring Hale to show cause why he should not be held in contempt.

The indictment also charged that Hale had "by force endeavored to influence, intimidate and impede" Lefkow from presiding over the lawsuit.

Hale was taken into custody as he passed through the metal detector at the north end of the lobby of the skyscraper courthouse.

Witnesses said that after the arrest a number of Hale's supporters yelled protests in the lobby. Police and agents then flooded the area.

Fitzgerald said in a statement issued by his office that "freedom of speech does not include the freedom to solicit murder."

He said the "conduct alleged in this indictment is disturbing on many levels, but particularly so because it targeted a judge, whose sworn duty is to apply the law equally and fairly to all who appear before her."

In May 2000, an Oregon-based religious organization-- TE-TA-MA Truth Foundation-- Family of URI Inc.-- sued Hale's group, saying it had infringed on a trademark through the use of the name "Church of the Creator."

Lefkow issued a serious of rulings favorable to TE-TA-MA in the case.

The indictment said that Hale's World Church of the Creator has held itself out as a religious organization "dedicated to the survival, expansion and advancement of the white race."

cosmocreator
Wednesday, January 8th, 2003, 11:03 PM
This is most likely a bogus charge. I seen in on CNN. Hale is a lawyer and knows what the ramifications would be for such a thing. He wouldn't jeopardize what he has built for something like that. The Jews are going after everyone who is a threat: Christine Greenwood, David Duke and now Hale. It's obvious. The charges are a jewish creation and lie.

Naro626
Thursday, January 9th, 2003, 03:05 AM
I'm absolutely devastated by this news... the horrible thing is that if it is bogus the masses will not hear our pleas for justice as their Jewish masters dictate their indifference.

Voldemort
Friday, January 10th, 2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by ns1488ca
[B]This is most likely a bogus charge. I seen in on CNN.


...I'm not a big believer in conspiracies.



Hale is a lawyer and knows what the ramifications would be for such a thing.


I always heard he never got his law degree.



He wouldn't jeopardize what he has built for something like that.


The WCOTC has always seemed a bit embarassing to me. I'm not sorry that its gone.

mav0ric
Friday, January 10th, 2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Voldemort
I always heard he never got his law degree.

He got his law degree and passed the bar exam on his very forst try but was not licenced due to his beliefs.


Originally posted by Voldemort
The WCOTC has always seemed a bit embarassing to me. I'm not sorry that its gone.

It is not gone. Does the Catholic Church go when the Pope dies? That is rediculous. I have a Creator that lives with my wife and I and she is as comitted a young person as I have seen. Certainly better than 95% of the internet nazis and wannabes on most messageboards. Perhaps true comittment does make you embarassed when reflected upon your net activity but that is something that you need to remedy.

My son informs me that your name and location are from Harry Potter so I assume you are only some little kid and now I discount your thought 100%

Naro626
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 02:38 AM
Nice post Mav... with you 100%

Naro626
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 08:27 AM
Interesting that Voldemort brings up idolatry and then glorifies the corrupt and idolatrous catholic church who is more of a crutch and a justification for evil than any other organization on the planet. Their use of icons and images flies in the face of their own biblical teaching. The confessional is a personal license for any kind of sin except of course not tithing on time... I admire the WCOTC because it honors and promotes truth and love for the white race and makes no misrepresentation of their atheism. If Voldemort wasn't so narrow minded he could see that their purpose is to replace all those crutches and lies out there and provide whites with a more honest and intelligent organization and church to belong to.

Voldemort
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Naro626
[B]Interesting that Voldemort brings up idolatry and then glorifies the corrupt and idolatrous catholic church


I don't glorify it, I'm simply pointing out its historical significance. The WCOTC MOCKS the cross that everyone from Charlemagne to Hitler knelt and prayed before. Is that a respectable mockery?

Do you find the beauty of Gothic Cathedral's to be an object of ridicule? How about Teutonic Knights? European Civilization has been guided by Christianity for nearly two OF ITS BEST millenia, the period of time the people on this board cherish. Yet this "World Church" spits on such tradition.

I myself am an Atheist, but I have a healthy respect for the positive role Christianity has played in the history of mankind, it annoys me to see it made light of by such upstarts as Hale.




Their use of icons and images flies in the face of their own biblical teaching.


Who cares?



The confessional is a personal license for any kind of sin except of course not tithing on time...


Nonsense.



I admire the WCOTC because it honors and promotes truth and love for the white race and makes no misrepresentation of their atheism.


LOL The white race doesn't need this pretentious tripe. It doesn't need wraping paper. Things like this delegitimize political movements, giving them the aura of wacko's and nuts.



If Voldemort wasn't so narrow minded he could see that their purpose is to replace all those crutches and lies out there and provide whites with


Different, SIMPLE, less eloquent or meaningful 'lies and crutches'?

I dislike everything about the WCOTC. Its simplistic, childish rants. Its course, vulgar literature, its noisy, whiney tone. There are far better movements out there with far less crass, D & D style atmosphere.

Naro626
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 11:30 AM
Saying that the church has benefited mankind shows your lack of knowledge and ignorance of history. If anything it has stifled progress, caused useless and harmful conflicts, and eaten away at the Volksgemeinschaft like a cancer. Any progress made by Christians in the last two millenia should be credited to their own personal greatness and be a testament to their race. The Church whether Catholic or Protestant has been an enemy to the Aryan from the first day the Jews laid its foundation. And I assure you, as any reasonably intelligent person would adhere, Adolf Hitler never displayed any allegiance to the Pope or any other christian institution. Whether or not he ever bent his knee had more to do with posturing than reverance. Your arguments are weak and ill thought out. You deny the future and the truth due to a childlike loyalty to a Jewish infested tradition. The style or appearance of the WCOTC may not suit you but I caution you not to underestimate its contribution and future potential.

Voldemort
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Naro626
Saying that the church has benefited mankind shows your lack of knowledge and ignorance of history.


(Sigh)

Well, I suppose it was foolish to expect a WCOTC believer to be rational. Its a sad day when someone with such disdain for Western Civilization terms themselves a 'White Nationalist'.



If anything it has stifled progress, caused useless and harmful conflicts


ROFL

Were there wars in Europe before the establishment of Christianity as the dominant religion on the continent? Are you going to trot out the liberal whine about the Crusades? Do you condem Christian Europe for fighting against Arabs, Saracens, and Turks? LOL



and eaten away at the Volksgemeinschaft like a cancer.


Oh God...not another German supremacist....



Any progress made by Christians in the last two millenia should be credited to their own personal greatness and be a testament to their race.


...Neglecting the fact that the Church preserved a great deal of Ancient knowledge necessary for Europe to rise from the ashes of feudalism, and was one of the greatest patrons of artists, architects, and artisans during the Renaissance. :rolleyes:



The Church whether Catholic or Protestant has been an enemy to the Aryan from the first day the Jews laid its foundation.


So what you're saying is that St. Peter's Basilica is a representation of what Jews can accomplish? Notre Dame? These are monuments to Jewry? Martin Luther was denouncing Jews before your great grandfather was a gleam in his great grandfather's eye. You don't seem to knowledgable for a guy talking about other people's intelligence.



And I assure you, as any reasonably intelligent person would adhere, Adolf Hitler never displayed any allegiance to the Pope or any other christian institution.


Hitler said in Mein Kampf, "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's Work."

Hitler said it again at a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews ... The work that Christ started but could not finish, I -- Adolf Hitler -- will conclude."

In a Reichstag speech in 1938, "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work."

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

Hitler DID NOT like the hierarchy of the Catholic Church at times, but as any Catholic will tell you if you ask them, that isn't always necissary for BEING a Catholic. Do I need to remind you of the inscription on German belt buckles, "Gott mit uns"?

So please, spare us.



Whether or not he ever bent his knee had more to do with posturing than reverance.


So you are saying that Adolf Hitler was a FRAUD????

You denounce Christian Europe, which has been an intregal part of Western Civilization for atleast 1600 years, and now refer to one of the most powerful warriors of the white race as a FRAUD!?



Your arguments are weak and ill thought out.


It doesn't say much for you, in that case, since as 'weak and ill thought out' as they may be, they're steamrolling over your lack of evidence and name calling.



You deny the future and the truth due to a childlike loyalty to a Jewish infested tradition.


"I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal."

--Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

"Certainly we don't have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image."

--Adolf Hitler

"Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children."

--Adolf Hitler

Not enough? Here's a good one:

"While both denominations maintain missions in Asia and Africa in order to win new followers for their doctrine-- an activity which can boast but very modest success compared to the advance of the Mohammedan faith in particular-- right here in Europe they lose millions and millions of inward adherents who either are alien to all religious life or simply so their own ways. The consequences, particularly from a moral point of view, are not favorable."

--Adolf Hitler

"Also noteworthy is the increasingly violent struggle against the dogmatic foundations of the various churches without which in this human world the practical existence of a religious faith is not conceivable ... The attack against dogmas as such, therefore, strongly resembles the struggle against the general legal foundations of a state, and, as the latter would end in a total anarchy of the state, the former would end in a worthless religious nihilism."

--Adolf Hitler

"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence.

--Adolf Hitler

"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine."

--Adolf Hitler

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."

--Adolf Hitler

"For this, to be sure, from the child's primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: 'Lord, make us free!' is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: 'Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!'"

--Adolf Hitler

"we National Socialists must hold unflinchingly to our aim in foreign policy, namely to secure for the German people the land and soil to which they are entitled on this earth. And this action is the only one which, before God and or German posterity, would make any sacrifice of blood seem justified: before God, since we have been put on this earth with the mission of eternal struggle for our daily bread..."


I think my point's been pretty well proven.

Naro626
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 01:04 PM
No actually your point is becoming cloudier by the minute. Go back and read my quotes that you inserted and see that I blatantly said Hitler was never allied with the Pope or any CHRISTIAN INSTITUTION. You can read but can you comprehend? All your quotes are meaningless and only serve to mask the true debate. You or no other man can or will ever steam roll the truth. While I admire the church's support of art it is not art alone that makes our nations powerful and great. Would you say oh scholar that the church has supported philosophy and science? Has the church done anything to recognize or preserve the Aryan race? Or has it used our artisans and culture to glamorize and cloak its evil nature in a veil of legitimacy and splendor? Twisting my words to imply I think the Fuhrer was a fraud is appauling and you should not only be ashamed but rebuked for your Jewish tactics and semantics. To posture does not equal being a fraud. Showing reverance to further political or social goals however is an act we have all engaged in. To say that any people has been "guided" by the church is like saying a cowboy guides a wild horse into passivity.

Azdaja
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 08:33 PM
I agree to some extent with Voldemort, in that I feel the WCOTC to be a liability that the world will be better off without.
I respect Hales courage and determination, but his "movement" seems to be no more than a crazy little cult which attracts a disproportionate amount of arrogant jerks.
Obviously not everyone in the group is a jerk, but every single WCOTC member which I have personally met has been. Mentally, they figure somewhere between a Hare Krishna devotee (with cult-like slogans such as "we must bring the message of Creativity to the ignorant") and a LaVeyan Satanist (with a hatred of Christianity which borders on the idiotic, not to mention a totally undeserved egotism).

I don't want Matt Hale to go to prison, but if he does I will not lose sleep over it. And contrary to what the WCOTC believes, they WILL shrivel up and die without Hale. He is the personality worshipped by the WCOTC cult.

Naro626
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 08:52 PM
I really only know of the WCOTC through Hale and I admire a lot about him. I think we need more leaders like him and definitely more speakers. The only thing that is troubling about your post Kalos is that last part about Hale going to jail... His struggle has been absolutely unfair thus far and he and his group are obviously being persecuted so I must question the validity of his arrest. If in fact he is guilty than I refrain from condemning the legal system but what of his innocence? Would you not be appalled if this was a bogus charge only intent on stopping him and his followers? I hope so...

Azdaja
Saturday, January 11th, 2003, 09:00 PM
Naro:

Yeah, I should have been clearer. There's actually 2 issues here and in my last post I was only discussing one of them; that being the WCOTC organization.
The other issue is the probable set-up of a man for his beleifs. This is the reason why I said "I don't want Matt Hale to go to prison", and I don't.
But if he does - as bad as that will be on a moral level - there will be one positive by-product: ie, the collapse of the WCOTC.