View Full Version : Battle Over the Remains of the Kennewick Man

Johannes de León
Wednesday, July 21st, 2004, 09:52 AM
The legal battle over the ancient bones of Kennewick Man has been won by the scientists, but they now face a new wrangle over access to the remains.

The 9,300-year-old skeleton is among the most complete specimens of its period known from the Americas.

The remains could reveal secrets of the settlement of the Americas

Four Native American tribes that sought to re-bury the bones have announced they will not be taking their fight to the US Supreme Court.

But they still regard the skeleton as an ancestor and call it "ancient one".

The Nez Perce, Umatilla, Yakama and Colville tribes filed a claim to the skeleton shortly after it was unearthed on 31 July, 1996, on a wide bank of the Columbia river at Kennewick in Washington State.

However, they were quickly challenged by scientists who said the skeleton could provide valuable information about the early settling of the Americas.

In February, the coalition of tribes lost their legal fight in the federal courts to scientists who want to study the remains.

The San Francisco-based Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that it was impossible to establish a relationship between the Indian tribes and "Kennewick Man".

An attempt to have the decision reviewed by a panel of judges was also rejected.

The defendants had the option to continue the fight in the US Supreme Court. But neither the tribes nor the US Justice Department filed an appeal to America's highest court by the Monday deadline.

However, legal representatives for the scientists are still locked in discussions with the US Justice Department over what the researchers are allowed to do with the bones.

'Condition concern'

Attorney for the scientists Alan L Schneider told BBC News Online: "We feel that they are improperly interjecting themselves into the purpose for which we can study the skeleton and the types of studies that would be appropriate to achieve the objectives."

The government has said that it would not permit any chemical or invasive testing on the bones. This would scupper any further attempts to obtain DNA samples from Kennewick Man.

The discussions are also likely to cover the question of how access to the remains is controlled.

"They're saying you have to restrict your studies and only a couple of people can go in and look at it and that sort of thing," Professor Robson Bonnichsen, one of the lead scientists, told BBC News Online.

The plaintiffs are also concerned by suggestions the bones may have deteriorated in the eight years since they was pulled from the sediment.

"The government has now come up with all kinds of concerns - that the skeleton is in such poor condition. The condition's changed under their watch because everyone said it was in great condition when it came in," explained Professor Bonnichsen.

"We know that the number of pieces of skeleton have grown since they've been there lying in the cabinet," he added.

Three tribes decided not to appeal the case before the weekend. The Umatilla held out to the deadline, but said in a statement on Monday that it would not proceed with the case any further.

"The decision was based on the availability of financial resources, the uncertainty of whether the Supreme Court would even hear the case, and the risk that an unfavourable Court decision could become law," the statement read.

It added that the Umatilla's board of trustees would begin working with other Native American tribes on a strategy to amend the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (Nagpra), the law enacted in 1990 to protect tribal burials.

"Nagpra needs to be strengthened so that it fulfils Congress' original intent, which was to protect tribal burials and return sacred items to the tribes," said Armand Minthorn, Umatilla board of trustees member.

The bones of Kennewick Man are currently held at the Burke Museum in Seattle.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, July 22nd, 2004, 02:08 AM
Indians in America are deathly afraid these bones will be of some other race other than their own. If the first inhabitants of North America were shown to be Whites, then the Indians would lose their moral high ground as the preservers of the American environment and be subjected to claims that their ancestors killed off the origianal inhabitants of America.

Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 11:09 AM
A New Look for the First Americans (https://www.discover.com/issues/mar-03/rd/breakfirst.html/)

A set of ancient skulls unearthed in central Mexico's Teotihuacán Valley, found at construction sites in the rapidly growing Mexico City region, are rewriting the history of human colonization in North America. Geologist Silvia Gonzalez of Liverpool John Moores University in England recently analyzed four of the skulls with help from colleagues at the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City, where the bones are housed. She was amazed to find that one of them is 12,700 years old, 700 years more ancient than any human remains ever before found in North America.

That skull, known as Peñon III Woman, has a long, thin shape, dramatically unlike the short, broad form of previous Mexican remains and of today's Native Americans. Most anthropologists believe Native Americans are all descended from a single population that arrived from Siberia. But the Peñon III skull, along with others in the museum collection, does not seem to be related to the Siberian travelers. Rather, they resemble Japan's indigenous Ainu people. Gonzalez believes relatives of the Ainu were part of another, previously unknown wave of immigration that originated in Japan, swept across the Bering Strait, then moved down the west coast of North America and into central Mexico.

Anthropologists have found remains of one modern narrow-headed population, the Pericus, that lived in Baja, California, until going extinct in the 18th century. Gonzalez plans a return trip to Mexico this month to collect DNA samples from Peñon III Woman. She will compare those samples with DNA from Pericu bones to see if the two populations are related. "We need to discard the hypothesis that it was just one massive migration into America. The picture is much more complicated," she says.

https://www.discover.com/images/issues/mar-03/rd_first_1.jpg https://www.discover.com/images/issues/mar-03/rd_first_2.jpg
These Mexican skulls, which long languished in a museum collection,
turn out to be more than 12,000 years old.
Photographs courtesy of National Museum of Anthropology, Mexico.

Saturday, October 1st, 2005, 09:08 PM
What can you tell me about Kennewick man? Was he Europoid? Was America inhabited by whites before the mongoloid inmigration?

Saturday, October 1st, 2005, 09:16 PM
There have been a couple of threads that talk about him:



A mildly related thread:


There is some good information in these threads related to what you ask.

Saturday, October 1st, 2005, 09:24 PM

Saturday, October 22nd, 2005, 05:58 PM
Pre-Indian Caucasoids in America

A whole e-book on the subject of proto-Caucasoids and also proto-Negroids in early America.


Sunday, December 17th, 2006, 02:29 AM
Don't let them bury our European heritage. U.S. Heathens are still fighting the battle for the preservation of Kennewick man!

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, December 17th, 2006, 06:46 AM
Go to the bottom of this link. This is the work of Steve McNallen and his group. I have corresponed with Steve. Steve is an engineer and probably a great engineer but he is not an anthropologist. The Kennewick skull does not look like a modern Indian but neither does it look European. It may look somewhere inbetween and be an archaic East Asian, an Ainu or something similar to that. If someone could post a picture of the skull, perhaps we could type him ourselves.

Sunday, December 17th, 2006, 07:14 AM
from different perspectives

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, December 17th, 2006, 07:24 AM
Great work Bioblitzkrieg. Anybody want to tell me why this is a Caucasian?

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, December 18th, 2006, 05:54 AM

OK, in contrast to a European skull:

Left View, completely rounded cranial vaut. A European vault would never be so completely rounded--this almost looks Negro in character but it is not Negro, of course. A European vault, especially a male, would have more angularity where the cranial bones meet and at the very back.

Also, the skull is resting on the lower jaw. Notice how, in this position, the skull leans backward giving the false impression of a prognathic skull? Well, a European skull, if rested on its lower jaw, would be much more vertical.

Middle View, huge zygomatic arches (cheek bones), this is common among Mongoloid peoples. Look at the nose. This is a broad nose and does not look European to me, especially if the skull is long-headed as it is alleged to be. All long headed Europeans have relatively long, narrow noses.

Right View, Notice the back of the jaw where it turns the corner from the table and rises up to its hinge. See how the jaw turns out, flares out, at this point. This is called an extraverted gonial angle. This is common among Mongoloids, even American Indians but only seen rarely in Europeans and then usually among peoples living in the far north.

Overall, this skull is long headed and so approximates modern Europeans but the forehead to occipital roundness, large cheek bones, wide nose, flaring jawbones, make it look more Mongoloid than Caucasoid to me.

Tuesday, March 27th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Appears thsi fellow was Ainu or Polynesian nice mock up of hsi face.There si not question that Europeans were here as ealry or earlier than the Siberian connection.
The Japan Times
November 29, 1999

The Observer
Evidence grows N. America's first colonizers were European
For apicture of a reproduction of Old Kennys face. Looks like across between Yul brenner and Patrick Stewart.

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifLONDON — Stone Age Europeans were the first trans-Atlantic sailors. Columbus and the Vikings were mere ocean-crossing latecomers, according to a leading American anthropologist. Dennis Stanford (http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news159.htm), of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, says Neolithic fishermen and hunters sailed the Atlantic in tiny boats made of animal skins 18,000 years ago and colonized the eastern United States.
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifSuch a journey would represent one of the most astonishing migrations ever undertaken — the Earth was then in the grip of the Ice Age and much of its high northern and southern latitudes were desolate wastelands blasted by storms and blizzards.
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifOn the other hand, much of the planet's water was locked in icecaps and glaciers, and sea levels would have been much lower than today's. The edges of the continents would have extended further into the oceans.
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gif"The gap between Europe and America was greatly reduced," Stanford said. "It could have been quite feasible for fishermen and whale and seal hunters to sail around the southern rim of the packs of sea-ice that covered the North Atlantic and reach land around the Banks of Newfoundland."
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifStanford's theory — outlined at a recent archaeology conference in Santa Fe, N.M. — is based on discoveries indicating ancient American people were culturally far more like the Neolithic tribes of France, Spain and Ireland than the Asian people whom scientists had previously thought to be the sole prehistoric settlers of North America.
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifStanford also points out although modern Native Americans possess DNA similar to that of Asians, they also carry some variants found only in European people. This genetic input could only be explained by accepting Stone Age people could sail ocean-going boats, he said.
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gif"We now know that human beings learned to sail 50,000 years before the present," he said. "Mankind settled in Australia then and it was not linked by any land bridge to Asia. It could only have been reached by boat. Clearly, we had mastered sailing tens of thousands of years before America was colonized, so we should not be surprised by the idea that people took boat trips across the Atlantic 18,000 years ago."
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifThe theory that prehistoric Europeans colonized America was first put forward in the 1950s by archaeologist Frank Hibben, but was discredited by evidence supporting the notion the continent was populated 20,000 to 15,000 years ago by Asian migrants who walked across the land bridge then linking Siberia with Alaska, and who then trekked south through the continent.
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifStanford does not disagree Asian folk colonized ancient America, but argues current genetic and archaeological evidence shows an influx of Europeans must also have taken place. The prime candidates for these migrants are the Solutrean people who lived in Spain 23,000 to 18,000 years ago and later colonized parts of France and Ireland.
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifThey designed and made beautifully crafted fluted stone blades that bore a striking similarity to those made by the Clovis people who lived in America 11,000 years ago. Like the Clovis, the Solutreans made stone scrapers to prepare hides and kept stores of stone implements, buried in red ocher, round the countryside. These ancient Spaniards therefore must have been among the first New World settlers, Stanford says. Native Americans are Iberian, not Siberian, in origin. http://www.trussel.com/prehist/empty10.gifThe theory's main problem stems from the fact an Atlantic crossing in tiny Ice Age boats would have been an awesome undertaking. However, Stanford argues it would have been a less arduous undertaking than might be expected. "If a storm arrived, they would have camped on an ice island until the weather got better. Eventually they would have drifted west until they reach eastern America," he said.
this from wikipedia

Dna studies also show this to be the case a lot of mitchondiral dna that is definitley European in origin appears in many tribes inl the northeast
North and South America
Haplogroup X is also one of the five haplogroups found in the indigenous peoples of the Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas). Although it occurs only at a frequency of about 3% for the total current indigenous population of the Americas, it is a major haplogroup in northeastern North America, where among the Algonquian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquian) peoples it comprises up to 25% of mtDNA types. It is also present in lesser percentages to the west and south of this area -- in North America among the Sioux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sioux) (15%), the Nuu-Chah-Nulth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuu-Chah-Nulth) (11%–13%), the Navajo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_people) (7%), and the Yakima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakama) (5%), and in South America among the Yanomami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanomami) people (12%) in eight villages in Roraima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roraima) in northwestern Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil).
Unlike the four main Native American haplogroups (A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_A_%28mtDNA%29), B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_B_%28mtDNA%29), C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_C_%28mtDNA%29), and D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_D_%28mtDNA%29)), X is not at all strongly associated with East Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asia). The sole occurrence of X in Asia discovered so far is in Altaia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altay_Mountains) in South Siberia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia) (Derenko et al, 2001), and detailed examination (Reidla et al, 2003) has shown that the Altaian sequences are all almost identical, suggesting that they arrived in the area probably from the South Caucasus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Caucasus) more recently than 5000 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_millennium_BC).
This absence of haplogroup X in Asia is one of the major factors causing the current rethinking of the peopling of the Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Models_of_migration_to_the_New_World). The New World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World) haplogroup X DNA (now called subgroup X2a) is as different from any of the Old World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_World) X2 lineages as they are from each other, indicating a very ancient origin.
The Solutrean Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis) posits that haplogroup X reached North America with a wave of European migration about 20,000 BC by the Solutreans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean), a stone-age culture in south-western France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) and in Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain), by boat around the southern edge of the Arctic ice pack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_ice_pack).

Tuesday, March 27th, 2007, 10:42 PM
So... America does belong to europeans!

The skull looks like a europid/eskimid mix.