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View Full Version : How Come There is No Germanic Mob?



Feyn
Wednesday, July 25th, 2012, 06:34 PM
The Chinese have the Triads, the Japanese the Yakuza, the Italians have the Mafia, the Russians the Thieves in Law, there is a Jewish mafia, there is an Irish mafia etc, etc, etc. but as far as i am aware no purely Germanic country has developed it´s own "flavor" of organized crime.

Do i overlook something here or is our crime less organized ? Usually we like organizing, so how come we have never created our own organized crime structure like all other people have ?

Angus
Wednesday, July 25th, 2012, 06:58 PM
They're around, but they probably don't attract as much attention to themselves on an international scale. I've heard stories about the East-German mob from my grandmum. There's also a rather notorious crime family somewhere in the lowlands that happens to share my surname. No relation, I swear. :P

Feyn
Wednesday, July 25th, 2012, 08:06 PM
Oh, wow, i wasnt really aware of that ! I mean sure you have organized gangs of say max 20 people, but beyond that ? With mafia like structures like in other countries???

Hersir
Wednesday, July 25th, 2012, 10:14 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels

What about our politicians?

Untersberger
Wednesday, July 25th, 2012, 10:31 PM
I've heard stories about the East-German mob from my grandmum.

No idea what this is supposed to mean?

East German? What do you mean by eastern German if I may politely ask?

Is there a Mafia in Königsberg? Tilsit?

Just asking ??

Feyn
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 12:02 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels

What about our politicians?

You misunderstand the question ! Of course we have the mafia here, the russian mob etc.etc.etc.
What i meant was organized crime on the same level as the mafia, thethieves in law, the irish mob etc that ORIGINATED in a germanic country. The hells angels didnt originate here in germany, they started in the USA. But since you mention them i realized that there really is one big organization that originated here : the GREMIUM MC, with over 100 charters worldwide. But can you call them a mafia, a mob ? Hard to say if they have the club as cover to do business, or is it the other way around, they do business to have the club, to finance everything.

Also the MC idea didnt really start here, it is basically a copy of an american thing, so even if you want to call them a mob in a way it didnt really originate here, like the thieves in law originated in russia and have something typically russian about them, or the camorrha started in sicilee and has something typical italian about it, or the yakuza started in japan and have their typical japanese ways top do business etc.etc.etc.

Germanics love to organize things, so i am really astonished we didnt create our own form of organized crime. All the european countries did, except for the germanic ones, which i find really curious !!!

Hilderinc
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 12:33 AM
Germanics love to organize things, so i am really astonished we didnt create our own form of organized crime. All the european countries did, except for the germanic ones, which i find really curious !!!

Are you trying to imply that Germanics are as inherently criminal as all the other Europeans? :insulted

Sjoerd
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Organized crime is a blight upon any society...

I would be pleased that people don't think about Germans, Norwegians, Swedes, Dutch, Danes, etc... when they read about mafias and gangs.

Usually when one thinks about organized crime...they tend to think of russians, mexicans, negroes, or latinos.

Feyn
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 12:57 AM
Are you trying to imply that Germanics are as inherently criminal as all the other Europeans? :insulted


Of course not, that was meant ironic ;) But it is really interesting that the germanic countries are the only ones that lack such a thing. Of course with the globalisation now organized crime from all over the world wants to establish a foothold in these germanic countries exactly because there is no real competition so far. Especially in Germany and Austria they try to gain power. So far especially the russian mob, called thieves in law, pose a problem and a threat to our society.

I am most interested in your theories why we havent established a mob-like structure of our own ? Are we germanics simply too morally superior for something like that to stand a chance ? Have we some traits that stopped the success of such entities ? Is our society somehow different, and if so, how exactly and why would that make the difference???

renownedwolf
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 01:04 AM
The thing is, we no doubt have similar somewhere along the line, but unlike other peoples we tend not to glamourise them as being integral parts of our culture. We revile the like generally.

Hersir
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 01:13 AM
But can you call them a mafia, a mob ? Hard to say if they have the club as cover to do business, or is it the other way around, they do business to have the club, to finance everything.

I have some friends who are bikers, and members of clubs. Trust me, Hells Angels is not about motorcycles... Many of the members don't even have licences to drive them. HA is known to use nazi imagery, and all the members around here are whites.

HA ran a tattoo shop in my town, and the other tattoo studio had to pay HA or they would break the owners arms. Luckily HA closed down shop and are trying to sell their locales here. This is not stuff I'm pulling out of the thin air.


http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/980/980821/9808214/jpg/active/960x.jpg

Leader of HA Norway. He has been arrested in connection to drug deals

Other:
Denmark: Street war between Hells Angels and immigrant gangs spreading :
http://blog.balder.org/?p=483/ HA is not warring on immigrants as some sort of nordic pride, immigrant gangs are just taking their drug markets.

Feyn
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 01:29 AM
With the hells angels i know that to be the case, same as with the banditos, the gallopping goose and many of the other big ones. Where i am not really sure though is with the GREMIUM MC, the last big german club. I also have friends in the biker millieu and have even been offered several times to prospect for various clubs, but as much as I like them, i didnt want to get THAT invested into any club/MC.

I love to party with them, i mean bikers really know how to party man^^ But i guess those times will be over in a few years. The mongrels and the hells angels are both pushing aggresively into my region, so none of the real biker clubs here will be around for too much longer. Either they become a new chapter of one of the big ones, become a puppet club for one of them or cease to exist. It is really a shame, since they are the real bikers, and mot such phonies as mongrels or the angels.

keule
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 01:36 AM
In Germany, mere violence in public locations is banned since about 900 years. Since then a man only for beginning a fight or putting "violence" (f.e. stealing a plow in the field, raping a woman etc.) to s.o./s.th. could get a death sentence. This matter, regulated then by order of the king (in 1103!, renewed in 1495), today by the penal law, is called "Landfrieden"! And is a crime in Germany up to this day! Since then the ruling power in Germany didn't accept violence in the public.

Important: and this in accordance to the general thinking of almost all people. No merchant and no farmer was interested in being killed, robbed or stolen during his hard work outside in the fields or on the roads. Such a criminal got no help from 99 percent of the people. In contrary, all the people gave information to military or police, to chase down such a criminal, to see him hanged or beheaded!

One must know and understand this fact, to understand why in modern (since 500 years) Germany - with some exceptions, it's clear, "Schinderhannes" f.e. :) - there was no such things like the Chicago gangs in the US. Stories about big shootings in the street from the US in those days the German read in the newspaper and shaked his head, because he could not understand such behavior.

For Germans the US therefore was something like a "whole state of gangsters". Even nearly nobody knew the English language, all knew the word "gangster"!!! And this word was exclusively used for the US, and for (German) bankers and politicians! :D

But in Germany exists - therefore :) - a long tradition of so called "white collar crimes" and "white collar criminals"! That's the preferred way in Germany since long ago! Not this foolish beating and fighting and shooting in the streets! :D Even intelligent "1-percenters" are acting in this way, preferring to put "their" men (high ranking police officers, public prosecutors, politicians up to ministers etc.) on the payroll and making their business without shootouts with the police in the streets! That's a fact!

One could say that the Germans, being a very intelligent people, are living their criminal potentials in an "intellectual" way. Germans are the Goethes and Schillers in criminality! :D

Slivers
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 02:02 AM
Some Gangsters during prohibition in America had Germanic backgrounds. If i'm not mistaken one of the guys in Bugs Moran's gang (who was later gunned down in the St Valentines day massacre) was of entirely Germanic descent, I'm sure it was his property the Massacre happened at.

I also recently heard of a Hitman/Thug out of 1980's Chicago who was nicknamed "The German" His last name was Schleiss or something along those lines. He's not really worth mentioning because his story made it look like he just he just had serious mental and criminality problems.

I'm sure it wasn't uncommon during prohibition to find German bootleggers and criminals here and in Canada it's just many of them don't make the history books. And most German migrants here came from very ethical work and family based backgrounds so they tended to be people who put higher values on a hard days work rather than a quick buck.

Liutpold
Thursday, July 26th, 2012, 11:01 AM
Crime in general developed in parallel with prostitution in the city, beginning as petty thefts and other crimes linked to the need to survive in the war's aftermath. Berlin eventually acquired a reputation as a hub of drug dealing (cocaine, heroin, tranquilizers) and the black market. The police identified 62 organized criminal gangs in Berlin, called Ringvereine.

Quelle 1 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringverein)
Quelle 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_culture#Berlin.27s_reputation_for _decadence)

I think there were never German mobsters in the USA. Only some kind of mobsters in Germany during the Republic of Weimar. I think today is the criminal business in the hands of aliens/foreigners (Russians/Serbs/Arabs and so on).

Angus
Friday, July 27th, 2012, 03:17 AM
No idea what this is supposed to mean?

East German? What do you mean by eastern German if I may politely ask?

Is there a Mafia in Königsberg? Tilsit?

Just asking ??

My apologies, I should have been clearer. I meant "East German" in the context of the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (Soviet Controlled East Germany). My knowledge on the subject is extremely limited. It begins and ends with just some random stories told by my grandmum involving her friend or a distant relative after we watched a programme on Crime / Crime families. :)

Hrafn Odinnsson
Saturday, July 28th, 2012, 02:42 AM
A truly racial Germanic mob / gang is rare and probably so small you never hear of it. The other ones in the States are notorious: Aryan Brotherhood and Nazi Low Riders, these are prison gangs but not restricted to prison.

Hersir
Saturday, July 28th, 2012, 11:37 AM
The Aryan Brotherhood have Jewish members and leaders, they are not about NS at all.

Sawyer
Saturday, July 28th, 2012, 12:11 PM
Let's all convert to Judaism and become crypto-Germanics. Anyone ever considered that? :D

Vindefense
Saturday, July 28th, 2012, 01:09 PM
Yesterday i realized something : the chinese have the triads, the japanese the yakuza, the italians have the mafia, the russains the thieves in law, there is a jewish mafia, there is an irish mafia etc.etc.etc. but as far as i am aware no purely germanic country has developped it´s own "flavour" of organized crime. Do i overlook something here or is our crime less organized ? Usually we like organizing, so how come we have never created our own organized crime structure like all other people have ?

It would seem that mafias, in general, are the product of the disenfranchised and in many cases political criminals. That many are criminal is likely only the result of circumstance, that is being highly ambitious entrepreneurs shut out from the legal means to success. On the other hand, the criminal means may be more lucrative due to the high demand of illegal services. Since it is a law that where there is a demand, supply will follow, the control of that supply is embarked upon as a business venture and this will lead to a supply war. The ends of these wars are no different in principle than their corporate counter parts and in many cases the means by which they operate no different than those employed by government itself.

As a rule, in those countries where the policies and institutions are in favor of the native peoples and the standard of living is high, the legal means to success is usually the path of least resistance and for those outside of this or where the standard of living is low, the illegal means is.

Hrafn Odinnsson
Sunday, July 29th, 2012, 12:36 AM
Let's all convert to Judaism and become crypto-Germanics. Anyone ever considered that? :D

That has only been tried in the The Turner Diaries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/Turnerdiariescover.jpg