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View Full Version : Am I Wrong for Disagreeing with the Word Germanic?



KingBritannia
Tuesday, April 10th, 2012, 10:10 PM
It's the word German that puts me off, because from what I know and what is blatantly obvious is that Germanics didn't just originally hail from Germany, but from Denmark, Holland, Norway and all over Northwestern Europe. And it's the sense of superiority that I get from some Germans who think they're somehow the sole original people because there's the word German in there, and the other people who misunderstand, because they don't fully know what the word Germanic means. I feel it's not right that we use such terminology and I think we should use a word that is more appropriate and represents all people of Germanic heritage.

Patrioten
Tuesday, April 10th, 2012, 11:01 PM
What you perhaps do not realize is that the words German and Germanic are distinguished from one another in the other Germanic languages. Swedes do not call Germans Germans, we call them tyskar, and they don't live in Germany, they live in Tyskland. Germans themselves know of themselves as Deutscher (might be the wrong form but you get the idea), inhabiting Deutschland. Germanics are known as germaner in Swedish and Germanen in German. So from our point of view there's no confusion since the word for the meta-group, Germanics, is differentiated from the ethnic group known in English as Germans.

Why it is that there's no such distinction to be found in the English language is beyond my scope of knowledge however, but it probably has an etymological explanation.

KingBritannia
Tuesday, April 10th, 2012, 11:11 PM
This is the point I was trying to make. Why can't we distinguish between the two in English? Other languages do it like you've just said, so why can't we?

Patrioten
Tuesday, April 10th, 2012, 11:15 PM
If you want to foster understanding across languages then it would make more sense to come up with new English words for Germans and Germany rather than change the word that has a common meaning across all the languages, i.e Germanic.

KingBritannia
Tuesday, April 10th, 2012, 11:24 PM
That would be a good idea, but I don't think if it was put in place it would catch on. I don't want German people feeling like I'm having a go at them, but sometimes when the word Germanic is being used I feel like I can't identify with it, because the word German has such a strong presence within it.

velvet
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 01:11 AM
Well, imho German and Germanic are clearly not the same thing, it does have a distinction too, admittedly not as much as in all other languages, but still, it's only an inaccuracy of the English language to call us Germans and not something derived from Teuton or the more north-Germanic version Tysk.

Germanen means spear-men, there is nothing particularly "German" about it. It's a scientifically used and defined term that refers to the entirety of all Germanic peoples who share a common (basis of) culture. Although I believe that it was coined by Romans. But it's used that way since centuries already, so I really cant see why we should ditch it.


It's the word German that puts me off, because from what I know and what is blatantly obvious is that Germanics didn't just originally hail from Germany, but from Denmark, Holland, Norway and all over Northwestern Europe.

This shows that you are not very knowledgeable about the topic. It's for some reason a very widespread phenomenon in the Anglo-Sphere that English (only) speakers feel "offended" by the term because they feel offended by the word German, and then come up with this.

:nope

Wulfhere
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 01:31 AM
This is something I have long advocated too. Why don't we use the term Teutonic any more? To take an analogy, a Celtic person is a Celt, but we can't say that a Germanic person is a German. We can, however, say that a Teutonic person is a Teuton, without confusion.

Sawyer
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 03:04 AM
This is the point I was trying to make. Why can't we distinguish between the two in English? Other languages do it like you've just said, so why can't we?

Because the English decided to give the German word for Germans to the Dutch (obvious cognate of Deutsch).


This is something I have long advocated too. Why don't we use the term Teutonic any more? To take an analogy, a Celtic person is a Celt, but we can't say that a Germanic person is a German. We can, however, say that a Teutonic person is a Teuton, without confusion.

Teutonic could work, but I doubt it would catch on. The Romans called modern Germany, Germania, not Teutonia. It's all because of the Norman-French influence over England, that your language takes after Latin nomenclature.

The French call Germany Allemagne, which comes from "Alemmania", who were a German tribe, whom inhabited modern Switzerland and parts of Baden Württenberg.

But does this mean we should be complaining to the French because they aren't representing Thuringians, Saxons etc? Hell, England itself is named after the Angles, and not the Saxons, Jutes etc (though I know regions are eg Wessex)

Perhaps the English should stop calling Cymru, Wales. Seeing as Wales and Welsh are words that have no origin from that people.


At the end of the day, who gives a crap? The point in the OP was that Germans would think they're superior. The point is moot because we don't call Germany "Germany", we call it Deutschland, and we call Germania "Germania", your language is the only one with such a weak distinction between the two.

Herr Weigelt
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 04:11 AM
I think the term "Germanic" is a good description for the reasons mentioned above, but also because it's more recognizable to folks who are like minded.

Sefo
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 04:27 AM
This is something I have long advocated too. Why don't we use the term Teutonic any more? To take an analogy, a Celtic person is a Celt, but we can't say that a Germanic person is a German. We can, however, say that a Teutonic person is a Teuton, without confusion.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't the Teutons only one Germanic tribe out of many in antiquity? Certainly all Germanic's are not from the Teutonic tribe.

But to the thread starter, I agree. I would rather not be identified as "German" if at all possible.

Granraude
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 04:30 AM
Sefo is correct. The Teutons were one specific, powerful tribe.

Hilderinc
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 04:36 AM
"Teutonic" was the standard English term for "Germanic" until at least the early 80s.

Hrafn Odinnsson
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 05:31 AM
There isnt anything wrong on using German or Germanic in English, its just a mind game the media (more anti-White crap) has played on those who dont know shit.

Other words that are good to use to describe Germanic is Teutonic, Gothic, and Angle-Saxon, and others, even though they are tribes. I guess the best way to use this is in a personal reference; if you are Dutch then you can refer to yourself as a Ingling (spelling varies), or a Swede - Goth(ic) or Geat(ish).

End result though it looks like we are all from the same Gods who created us!

Keep in mind though that the suffix "-ic" in English is Latin based, it should actually be -sh or like the German spelling -sch.

hyidi
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 06:33 AM
German is the English name for Deutch etc.....Germany = Deutchland

Germanic is an English name.

Wulfhere
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't the Teutons only one Germanic tribe out of many in antiquity? Certainly all Germanic's are not from the Teutonic tribe.

But to the thread starter, I agree. I would rather not be identified as "German" if at all possible.

They were indeed, but this isn't the point. In the 19th century the standard term, in English at least, for what we now call the Germanic languages and peoples was Teutonic. Why it gradually switched to Germanic is a mystery, given (a) the obvious possibilty of confusion and (b) the two world wars fought with Germany, bringing the name somewhat into disrepute.

Bittereinder
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 02:13 PM
What you perhaps do not realize is that the words German and Germanic are distinguished from one another in the other Germanic languages. Swedes do not call Germans Germans, we call them tyskar, and they don't live in Germany, they live in Tyskland. Germans themselves know of themselves as Deutscher (might be the wrong form but you get the idea), inhabiting Deutschland. Germanics are known as germaner in Swedish and Germanen in German. So from our point of view there's no confusion since the word for the meta-group, Germanics, is differentiated from the ethnic group known in English as Germans.

Exactly, only in English is this mistake made, in Afrikaans German is Duitser, and Dutch is Nederlander. However it was the Germans that had the most contact with the Romans from where the name originates and thus it is not entirely unfitting. They were the people of Germania after all of which even then Germany was seen as the hart, but it is not the name they call themselves…

velvet
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 03:23 PM
Hell, England itself is named after the Angles

This is much disputed, with quite some right. The vocal shift from A to E is a quite uncommon one, it is much more likely that I/Y transformed into E, and then you have the Ynglings/Inglings, and the detail that recent genetic testing confirmed that the majority of English people have way more similarity with Frisians than with Saxons (the Angles are insignificant anyway, since they were a village-sized tribe of a few hundred people only, who, as "proper" ruling class, also didnt mix with their subjects, same as the Saxons). There are also hints that the term England (Ingland) existed long before the Anglo-Saxon invasion.

The English Islands were not always so seperated from the continent like they are now. 2000+ years ago the sea levels werent as high as today, so they were pretty much in Frisian settlement area.


Perhaps the English should stop calling Cymru, Wales. Seeing as Wales and Welsh are words that have no origin from that people.

Yes I agree, Welsh (welsch) is an ancient Germanic word that means "alien", more specifically a different looking stranger of other than Germanic tribal background (ie "swarthy"). It was always a derogative term.

Sehnsucht
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 03:36 PM
Yes I agree, Welsh (welsch) is an ancient Germanic word that means "alien", more specifically a different looking stranger of other than Germanic tribal background (ie "swarthy"). It was always a derogative term.

Is it really derogative? Wales comes from old English for foreigner's land. I don't think it is derogatory but more of a fact that the Welsh were foreign to the Anglo-Saxons. They are another people. I guess like the words immigrant, black and so on...they can be interpreted as derogatory.

Sawyer
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 03:51 PM
This is much disputed, with quite some right. The vocal shift from A to E is a quite uncommon one, it is much more likely that I/Y transformed into E, and then you have the Ynglings/Inglings, and the detail that recent genetic testing confirmed that the majority of English people have way more similarity with Frisians than with Saxons (the Angles are insignificant anyway, since they were a village-sized tribe of a few hundred people only, who, as "proper" ruling class, also didnt mix with their subjects, same as the Saxons). There are also hints that the term England (Ingland) existed long before the Anglo-Saxon invasion.

The English Islands were not always so seperated from the continent like they are now. 2000+ years ago the sea levels werent as high as today, so they were pretty much in Frisian settlement area.

Interesting, I did not know that.

But ultimately, the English themselves starting using the "Angle" as a root of English institutions. The Anglican Church, for example, rather than the "English" Church. And other things, like the name being "Anglo-American/Canadian/American" instead of Saxon-American etc.



Yes I agree, Welsh (welsch) is an ancient Germanic word that means "alien", more specifically a different looking stranger of other than Germanic tribal background (ie "swarthy"). It was always a derogative term.

Yes, this is the same as the term "Walloons". I think this is also the same as the term "Vlach" (hence "Wallachia") for Romanians.

Sawyer
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 04:15 PM
...their blood flows in my veins.Even though I am American,I have a bunch of old noble blood in me.Hell,even on the Arthur Lewis side of me,which comes from a line that was pretty good friends with a king named Edgar.

Cracks me up, the bold.

I have Norman blood in me, take that Anglo-Saxons. Though, with the passing of a milennia, most of it is mixed with Anglo-Saxon blood anyway

Žoreišar
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't the Teutons only one Germanic tribe out of many in antiquity?So were the 'Germans', as well, at some point, according to Tacitus;


The name Germany, on the other hand, they say is modern and newly introduced, from the fact that the tribes which first crossed the Rhine and drove out the Gauls, and are now called Tungrians, were then called Germans. Thus what was the name of a tribe, and not of a race, gradually prevailed, till all called themselves by this self-invented name of Germans, which the conquerors had first employed to inspire terror.

Wulfhere
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 05:21 PM
This is much disputed, with quite some right. The vocal shift from A to E is a quite uncommon one, it is much more likely that I/Y transformed into E, and then you have the Ynglings/Inglings, and the detail that recent genetic testing confirmed that the majority of English people have way more similarity with Frisians than with Saxons (the Angles are insignificant anyway, since they were a village-sized tribe of a few hundred people only, who, as "proper" ruling class, also didnt mix with their subjects, same as the Saxons). There are also hints that the term England (Ingland) existed long before the Anglo-Saxon invasion.

The English Islands were not always so seperated from the continent like they are now. 2000+ years ago the sea levels werent as high as today, so they were pretty much in Frisian settlement area.



Yes I agree, Welsh (welsch) is an ancient Germanic word that means "alien", more specifically a different looking stranger of other than Germanic tribal background (ie "swarthy"). It was always a derogative term.

Angle, from Angli, is the Latin name. The Angles called themselves Engle and Englisc which is the direct origin of the name England and English. It's also not true that they were a small elite. Bede, writing in the 8th century, tells us that the entire Angle nation migrated to Britain, and even in his day the area of Schleswig-Holstein, where they came from, was empty of people.

If the English language had existed in Britain during the Roman occupation, it would be full of Latin-derived words, as Welsh is. But Old English had almost no Latin words at all in it.

It's true that Welsh meant foreigner. Specifically, it meant a Latin-speaker. It is found in words such as Walloon and Wallachia. It had no derogatory connotation.

Sigurd
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, 05:23 PM
There are several topics on this issue already, please use the search function. Notable places to start are these threads:

Scandinavians and the "Germanic" Nomenclature (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=112753)
Germanic or Teutonic, Which Term Do You Prefer? (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=126219)

Thread hence closed. :)