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Mac Seafraidh
Monday, January 24th, 2005, 02:22 PM
24 January 2005

BERLIN - The German government said on Monday it was considering a new bid to ban a far-right political party amid outrage over a comparison of wartime Allied bombing of Dresden with the Holocaust.

The announcement came after state prosecutors in the eastern city of Dresden said they were unable to take action over remarks made in Saxony's state parliament by a member of the extremist National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD).

Under German law, members of parliament cannot be prosecuted or face disciplinary action for things said in state or federal assemblies. Under normal circumstances Germany has strict laws banning either denying the Holocaust or insulting the memory of victims.

Controversy raged over the weekend after deputy NPD leader Holger Apfel last week described the Allied bombing of Dresden in World War Two as a "bombing holocaust" during a speech given in Saxony's state parliament.

At least 25,000 people were killed in the February 1945 firebombing of Dresden by the British and American planes.

In the same session, NPD deputies remained seated while other members of the state legislature rose and observed a minute of silence for the millions who died at the hands of the Nazis.

The incident came less than a week before world leaders gather in Poland to mark the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz where at least 1.1 million people - most of them Jews - were murdered during the Holocaust.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's government is doubly angry over the NPD Holocaust affair given that its ban of the party in 2000 was overturned by the country's highest court in 2003.

"The comments ... reveal their anti-Semitic and racist ideas," Han-Hermann Langguth, a deputy government spokesman, adding that the NPD was "falsifying" history.

Langguth added that the government was considering a fresh attempt to ban the NPD which it views as seeking to overthrow the country's constitutional system.

In a political comeback after lifting of the ban, the NPD won 9.2 percent in Saxony's state elections last September after running a strongly anti-foreigner campaign. The rightists now have 12 seats in the state's Landtag or parliament.

Also alarming to state officials is a secret alliance between the NPD and several other members of the Landtag which has repeatedly given the rightist party more than its 12 votes. This has fueled an atmosphere of bitter suspicion in the state legislature.

At the same time that the NPD gained a foothold in the Saxony parliament, another rightwing party, the German People's Union (DVU), did so in the eastern German state of Brandenburg, winning 6.1 percent of the vote in that state's elections in September.

The NPD and DVU formally agreed to forge an election alliance aimed at gaining entry into the German national parliament in elections in the autumn of 2006.

Germany's mainstream political parties have called for a broad public campaign to counter the country's extreme rightwing groups amid the outrage over one rightist party's comparison of wartime Allied bombing of Dresden with the Holocaust.

At the same time, however, officials were sceptical about the prospects for imposing a ban on the rightwing parties after the government's previous attempts had been knocked down by Germany's highest court.

On Sunday, Saxony Interior Minister Thomas de Maziere of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) said that the law-enforcement institutions were not chiefly responsible for combating far-rightist views in society.

Instead, it is up to parents, teachers, students, the media, associations, unions and churches who should be involved, de Maziere told the Sunday edition of Saechsische Zeitung in Dresden.

He expressed scepticism about gaining a ban on the NPD.

"This should be carefully weighed as to whether to replace the political confrontation with a legal one, if the NPD has the chance to win the legal one," de Maziere said.

Similarly, the general secretary of the ruling Social Democrats (SPD), Klaus Uwe Benneter, appealed in an interview in the Sunday edition of Tagesspiegel newspaper "to all democratic forces in the country to stand up and resist with all means these Nazi activities".

Hans-Christian Stroebele, deputy floor leader in parliament of the Greens party, called in an interview in the Berliner Morgenpost for people to prevent an NPD demonstration set to take place at the Brandenburg Gate next 8 May. That is the 60th anniversary of the capitulation of Germany in World War Two.

Paul Spiegel, chairman of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, expressed doubts to German radio on Sunday about whether the political mainstream was opposing the far right forcefully enough.

He said it apparently is not enough simply to tell voters not to vote for the NPD.

"Now the work of convincing people must be carried out," Spiegel said.

While calling for public opposition to the far-right parties, officials were also cautious about the prospects of a ban. Greens Party head Claudia Roth said such a move should be "very carefully considered", while the domestic affairs spokesman of the Social Democrats, Dieter Wiefelsputz, rejected the idea.

"The chapter of an NPD ban is closed," he stated.

The remark was a reference to the embarrassing setback for Interior Minister Otto Schily in his attempt to ban the NPD starting in late 2000.

The ban was challenged in the courts over the next few years during which it was revealed that Berlin's case against the NPD was tainted because the evidence was based on activities by government- paid agents who had been infiltrated into the party's leadership ranks. The supreme court ultimately dismissed the case in March 2003.

DPA






Subject: German news






http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=16082&name=Parties+call+for+campaign+against+f ar-rightists



Paul Spiegel and his Jewish Party of Germany must be outlawed, not the NPD.

Wichmann
Monday, January 24th, 2005, 03:58 PM
The disaster of Dresden:

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/dresden-e.html

Appalachian
Monday, January 24th, 2005, 06:09 PM
hol·o·caust **

n.

1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire.

2.
a. The genocide of European Jews and others by the Nazis during World War II: “Israel emerged from the Holocaust and is defined in relation to that catastrophe” (Emanuel Litvinoff).

b. A massive slaughter: “an important document in the so-far sketchy annals of the Cambodian holocaust” (Rod Nordland).

4. A sacrificial offering that is consumed entirely by flames.



Dear Jews,

Please see definition #1 above. Then stop trying to rewrite our dictionaries. Thank you.

Most sincerely,
TheAppalachian

Mac Seafraidh
Friday, January 28th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Why the NPD Shouldn't be Silenced http://www.dw-world.de/img/transpa.gifhttp://www.dw-world.de/img/transpa.gifhttp://www.dw-world.de/dw/image/0,1587,414370_1,00.jpg (javascript:popop('/dw/detail/1,1581,1470315,00.html','Bild',330,324)) http://www.dw-world.de/dwelle/img/lupe.gif (javascript:popop('/dw/detail/1,1581,1470315,00.html','Bild',330,324)) http://www.dw-world.de/img/transpa.gifDoes the NPD have the right to freedom of speech?http://www.dw-world.de/img/transpa.gifhttp://www.dw-world.de/img/transpa.gif http://www.dw-world.de/dwelle/images/transpa.gifThe far-right National Democratic Party's behavior at a recent memorial ceremony for Holocaust victims prompted many to ask why the party isn't banned. But most of DW's readers felt the NPD has a right to a voice.


I think that the NPD should not be banned. Their party has just as much right to voice their beliefs as the Greens, CDU and the SPD. How long are people going to label the Germans Nazis? That was 60 years ago. This is a different age now. These people just want jobs for Germans, their social money to go to Germans and not "Ausländer". Some might view their comments differently, but behind closed doors I'll bet it is a different story. -- Michael Fuller/USA



The NPD should not be banned as a party unless they are a viable threat to overthrow the German government by violent means rather than through the election process. They have the right to freedom of speech. In a constitutional democracy, who would be entitled to decide to ban the party short of an amendment to the consitution through the means set up for that process? -- John Thomas



Trends in many EU countries illustrate that far-right parties are here to stay and NPD/CVU could gather enough votes in 2006 to enter the Bundestag. The German unemployment rate is increasing and government reforms are highly unpopular. I think the increasing pessimism in the public about the state of the economy will give the NPD/DVU more votes. However, the most effective way to oppose these far-right groups is not through left-wing violence. The federal and state governments should work actively to improve the economical condition of Germany and initiate more actions for multicultural harmony. The NPD/DVU hate of non-Germans is a tragic result of an ignorant ideology. -- Atilla A. Iftikhar



It may come as a shock but in a true democracy even unpopular speech is protected. If only "correct" speech is free then you do not have freedom of speech. One would think this principle would by now be fundamental in a free society. -- JL Ronish



NPD should not be banned yet, however if their policy and rhetoric worsen then the party should be banned from all states. It is possible they will encourage more hate and even violence against people they consider "un-patriotic". Such intimidations could lead to physical assaults by NPD supporters which cannot be tolerated by the government. The neo-Nazis and other extremists propagating hate and violence should not be tolerated by the society. Unfortunately, it seems considerable supporters in the former East enjoy such political parties. -- Atilla A Iftikhar



I've just returned from Iraq. The US, my country, claims it is building democracy there. Is this conceivable? People point to Germany and Japan as successes. Does Germany have a democracy? A year or two ago your Parliament expelled a Syrian member for comparing Israelis to Nazis in treatment of subject peoples. Now this NPD speaker in the Saxony parliament has his microphone turned off for calling the bombing of Dresden mass-murder by Anglo-American gangsters. And his party is under banning threat. Is that democracy? My theory of democracy is that it grows from inside a community, indeed is the growth of community as people learn to trust each other. Did the "Allied" foster-fathers of the German nation only delay Germany's development of democracy by imposing a democratic constitution? What do Germans think? -- Chris Rushlau



After reading the article, the only thing I can say is that Silvana Koch-Merin, Markus Soeder, Michael Muller and Christina Weiss will be out of work. At least a new generation of politicians will take care of the German interests, instead of somebody else's. The construction of so many foreign memorials, with any excuse, is appalling and a way to try to form the wrong idea in the German people before the general elections. Vielen Dank! -- Luis Iñarra


DW staff (jp)



http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1470315,00.html (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1470315,00.html)

Mac Seafraidh
Friday, January 28th, 2005, 10:45 PM
Jewmany will once again become the Grossdeutsches Reich :) I didn't use umlauts/ß lol.

dux ducis
Saturday, January 29th, 2005, 07:10 AM
Regardless of the point of the post, about the work done to suppress these parties, it sure is refreshing to read about them gaining any kind of prominance at all.

Sigel
Saturday, January 29th, 2005, 03:20 PM
A party only exists because there is a need for it. Perhaps the mainstream parties should examine why the people feel such a need.

But I suspect they would not want to hear the answer.

Verðandi
Saturday, September 30th, 2006, 04:34 AM
Most Germans say that banning the extreme right-wing National Democratic Party won’t have any positive effect, a new poll says.

More... (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fanonym.t o%2F%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fjta.org%2Fpage_view_ breaking_story.asp%3Fintid%3D4928)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, September 30th, 2006, 05:08 AM
This means that 24% just might vote for an extreme right party! If you want to keep an idea alive then ban it. What may happen is that every young person undergoing a rebellious period in his/her life may just take a look at extreme right-wing parties during that rebellion. Some will like the idea and stay.

Oswiu
Saturday, September 30th, 2006, 04:19 PM
Only 10 percent said they had considered voting for such a party, with men more likely to do so than women.

How can this be reversed?

Verðandi
Tuesday, November 14th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Leading German politicians have again called for a ban on Germany's National Democratic Party (NPD), but neither this nor financial problems are likely to hurt the country's far right, experts say.

More... (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fanonym.t o%2F%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.dw-world.de%2Fdw%2Farticle%2F0%2C2144%2C223 7510%2C00.html)

SwordOfTheVistula
Thursday, August 30th, 2007, 11:02 PM
Bad results so far, maybe we can improve them a bit

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,2142,1432,00.html

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, August 31st, 2007, 06:22 AM
It was 34.1 "No" when I voted. What is the story on this poll? Deutsche Welle but in English---so that English speaking people can slant the voting? Or would the English results and the presumed German results be combined?

SwordOfTheVistula
Friday, August 31st, 2007, 06:25 AM
I don't know. It was over 2/3 in favor before, so the multi-forum blitz has knocked it down a couple percentage points in a few hours.

Oski
Friday, August 31st, 2007, 07:21 AM
This is bad news at any rate! How will the party react if told to disappear?

EQ Fighter
Friday, August 31st, 2007, 07:55 AM
Well as an American I would view the Government of Germany as SOCIALIST, and an enemy to freedom that should be eliminated by any means necessary.


Of course that is just my opinion.

Blood_Axis
Friday, August 31st, 2007, 12:28 PM
Where is the poll? I don't see it... :confused:

Boche
Friday, August 31st, 2007, 12:41 PM
With all Seriousity. The NPD is a bunch of fools which no real nationalistic or patriotic german want to reign the german lands.
They're just good to vote for so they get more seats in the parliament which would scare the actual politicans and force them for a change.

And about the NPD-Banning, it would simply prove that germany isn't so democratic after all, so the gouverment could never ban them - which is good.
Such parties are needed after all.




Gruß,
Boche

SwordOfTheVistula
Saturday, September 1st, 2007, 05:58 AM
Yeah I have misgivings about some of things they support, also they seem to be a bit behind the times in some of their methods, but I still support them since they are the leading nationalist party there, same with the BNP in England

Also I guess the poll is over now, as it is no longer at that link

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, September 1st, 2007, 06:37 AM
Why would a free country ban any political party?

Janus
Saturday, September 1st, 2007, 09:38 AM
Why would a free country ban any political party?

Parties were already banned here so we should rather question the status of Germany as a free country.

Schmetterling
Thursday, April 24th, 2008, 03:14 PM
Germany has long talked about banning the neo-Nazi NPD party. But an attempt to do so is about to fail because Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives say such a bid could strengthen the party. Germany's Jewish population is up in arms.

Germany's second attempt to ban the far-right National Democratic Party looks doomed before it has even begun because a number of conservative-ruled states are refusing to cooperate in mounting a legal bid against the party.

The president of Germany's Central Council of Jews, Charlotte Knobloch, criticized the states which failed to present information on the activities of the NPD in their respective territories by a March 31 deadline.

"I don't agree with the way this is being handled," Knobloch told the Märkische Oderzeitung newspaper in an interview published on Tuesday. Her deputy, Dieter Graumann, told the Associated Press that it would be a sign of "helplessness and resignation" if no attempt was made to ban a party that spread "poisonous propaganda."

---

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,544602,00.html

Schmetterling
Friday, April 25th, 2008, 03:15 AM
Key Jewish group urges politicians to outlaw far-right National Democratic Party, calls for Germany to 'wake up.' However interior minister warns banning party 'not as easy' as some might think.

Germany's main Jewish lobby group has urged politicians considering a bid to ban the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) to "wake up" to the threat to German democracy.

The Central Council of Jews says the growing respectability of the NPD is fuelling right-wing radicalism more than 60 years after World War Two and the Holocaust.

"Politicians must wake up at last," Stephan Kramer, general-secretary of the council, told Reuters.

"We need a signal to make clear the NPD is trying to destroy Germany and its democratic principles."

Germany's Office for the Protection of the Constitution says the NPD is racist, anti-Semitic and revisionist and that its statements prove its inspiration comes from the Nazis.

...

More information (http://anonym.to/?http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3532736,00.html)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, April 25th, 2008, 06:04 AM
Jews are so fair-minded, tolerant, and open to the opinions of others. They would never think of imposing narrow restrictions on others because they have learned from history. Jews and the ethics they champion represent the moral compass that should guide us all.

Bärin
Saturday, April 26th, 2008, 11:17 AM
It's only a matter of time. The list of rightist parties and organisations banned by the BRD has a few names on it.

The Socialist Reich Party of Germany (German: Sozialistische Reichspartei Deutschlands) was a West German political party founded in the aftermath of the Second World War, in 1949 as an openly National Socialist and Hitler-admiring split from the German Empire Party. Leading figures included Otto Ernst Remer, a former Major General, and Fritz Dorls.

The SRP claimed Konrad Adenauer was an American puppet and that Karl Dönitz was the last legitimate Führer of a pan-German Reich. It denied the existence of the Holocaust, claimed the ovens of the Dachau concentration camp were built by the United States after the war and that films of concentration camps were faked. The SRP also advocated Europe, led by a reunited German Reich, as a "third force" against both capitalism and communism.

...

The SRP had its own paramilitary organisation, the Reichsfront.

The SRP had about ten thousand members and it won 16 seats in the Lower Saxony Landtag election, and in Bremen scored 8 seats. It was banned in 1952 by the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany, the only court with the power to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Reich_Party

Volkssozialistische Bewegung Deutschlands/Partei der Arbeit (VSBD/PdA or People's Socialist Movement of Germany/Labour Party) was a German Neo-Nazi group led by Friedhelm Busse. They used the wolfsangel as their party emblem.

At a time when the far right in Germany was distancing itself from mainstream Nazism the VSBD/PdA took the lead by supporting the more Socialist-leaning version of Nazism Strasserism. Outlawed in 1982, the group soon reconstituted as the Nationalist Front - League of Revolutionary Nationalists.

The Junge Front (Young Front), a youth movement attached to the party, was also organised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssozialistische_Bewegung_Deutschland s/Partei_der_Arbeit

The "Wiking-Jugend" (WJ, "Viking youth") was a German Neo-Nazi organization modelled after the Hitlerjugend.

The Sozialistische Reichspartei (SRP) was outlawed in 1952, together with its youth organization "Reichsjugend". The Neo-Nazis went underground in numerous fragmented follow-up organizations, and the former Reichsjugend, the Vaterländischer Jungenbund and the Deutsche Unitarier-Jugend eventually coalesced again in the form of the "Wiking-Jugend". The group was active in the pan-European nationalist New European Order, although they quit in 1955 over the issue of South Tyrol.

Up to 1991, Stolberg (Rhineland) was the headquarters of WJ. From 1991 to 1994, it was Berlin.

The Wiking-Jugend was outlawed as unconstitutional on 10 November 1994.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiking-Jugend

The Action Front of National Socialists/National Activists (German: Aktionsfront Nationaler Sozialisten/Nationale Aktivisten; abbreviated ANS/NA) was a German neo-Nazi organization.

The group was founded in 1977 by Michael Kühnen under the name "Action Front of National Socialists" (ANS) as a legal branch of the NSDAP/AO. In 1978 and 1979, most of the leaders of the organization were arrested. On January 15, 1983 the organization merged with the National Activists (Nationale Aktivisten), an organization led by Thomas Brehl. Still led by Michael Kühnen, it now worked under the name ANS/NA. The ANS/NA was organized in thirty "comradeships" (Kameradschaften) in the areas North, South, West and Middle. It had contacts to several other groups such as the Viking-Youth (Wiking-Jugend).

The ANS/NA was banned by the Ministry of the Interior on November 24, 1983 and officially disbanded on December 7. At the time it had about 240 members.

Kühnen and other leaders in the organization tried to continue the structures of the organization. Many members of the organization then also infiltrated the then insignificant Free German Workers' Party (Freie Deutsche Arbeiterpartei; FAP) and attempted to found new organizations such as the Committee for the Preparation of the Celebrations to Adolf Hitler's 100th Birthday (Komitee zur Vorbereitung der Feierlichkeiten zum 100. Geburtstag Adolf Hitlers; KAH).

In 1993, Christian Worch, also a leader of the organization, was a convicted to 2 years' incarceration for having continued this illegal group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Front_of_National_Socialists/National_Activists

The Free German Workers' Party (German: Freiheitliche Deutsche ArbeiterPartei, FAP) was a neo-nazi political association in Germany. It was outlawed by the Constitutional Court in 1995.

The FAP was founded in 1979 but was largely insignificant until the banning of the Action Front of National Socialists/National Activists in 1983 when Michael Kühnen encouraged members to infiltrate this tiny group. A minor party (around 500 members in 1987) it experienced something of a growth after German reunification and sought, unsuccessfully, an alliance with the NPD.

Associated with Strasserism, the party managed to gain some support amongst football hooligans but was damaged by Kühnen's homosexuality, taking a stand against him. The party continued under Friedhelm Busse from 1989 but it lost a number of members to new groups loyal to Kühnen, including the German Alternative (1989) and the National Offensive (1990). The group is no longer active, although some former members are active in the NPD, others in local Kameradschaften.

On February 24, 1995, the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany outlawed the FAP. The court ruled that it wasn't a political party but an association that aimed at overthrowing democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_German_Workers%27_Party

The German Alternative (German: Deutsche Alternative or DA) was a minor neo-Nazi group set up in Germany by Michael Kühnen in 1989.

Its declared goal was the restoration of the German Reich and rejected the cession of German areas in Eastern Europe following World War II as well as all immigration to Germany claiming that there were already too many foreigners in the country.

The group was a successor to the shortlived Nationale Sammlung, itself set up following Kühnen's removal from the Free German Workers' Party due to his homosexuality. It was constituted as a legal political arm of the Gesinnungsgemeinschaft der Neuen Front, Kühnen's more militant neo-Nazi organisation. After its founding, it received members not only from the GdNF, but also from Republicans and the National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD), including the defection of the complete leadership of the NPD in Berlin and Brandenburg in 1991.

The group organised under the name Nationale Alternative (National Alternative) in the former East Germany, with Ingo Hasselbach as leader. This guise of the DA organised militia training camps in East Berlin and established close links with other groups as well as international figures such as Gary Lauck. However after around a year of intense activity this arm of the DA fell apart.

After Kühnen's AIDS-related death in 1991, Frank Hübner became the organization's new chairman, while Rene Koswig assumed the role as deputy, both hail from East Germany. This led about eighty members, primarily from the western part of the country to leave the DA and start the Deutsches Hessen, Nationaler Block, Volkstreue Liste, and Deutscher Weg.

The group was banned in 1992 along with the Nationalist Front and National Offensive following an arson attack on an asylum seekers refuge in Mölln, Schleswig-Holstein. At the time, it had 340 members and affiliate organisations in Rhineland-Palatinate, Brandenburg, Saxony, Berlin and Bremen. In Cottbus, it even had more members than the Social Democratic Party of Germany. The decree banning it lists three attacks on hostel containing refugees, DA members were arrested for participating in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Alternative

Nationalistische Front (Nationalist Front) was a minor German neo-Nazi group active during the 1980s.

Founded in 1985 by Meinolf Schönborn the group, which had no more than 150 members, was characterized by its support for Strasserism rather than more usual forms of Nazism. The Nationalist Front - League of Social Revolutionary Nationalists had been formed in 1982 from the ashes of the banned Volkssozialistische Bewegung Deutschlands/Partei der Arbeit. This organisation was the basis for a merger with a number of smaller groups to from a new NF.

Based primarily in Bielefeld, the group had a largely Pagan membership, hosting fire rituals and similar ceremonies. The group also performed cross burnings and forged links with Dennis Mahon, the head of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

The group also became noted for its armed wing, the National Task Force (Nationales Einsatzkommando - NEK) which was set up in 1991 with the help of Otto Ernst Remer and Herbert Schweiger. This group was blamed on a number of attacks, including burning a man to death in the mistaken belief that he was a Jew and the arson of an asylum seeker hostel in Dolgenbrodt, near Berlin. Firmly anti-Semitic, the NF was also associated with Jürgen Rieger, the well-known German Holocaust denier who was a speaker at a number of its events.

Its support for the Nazis led to the group being banned by the Federal Ministry of the Interior in 1992 along with the German Alternative of Michael Kühnen and the National Offensive of Michael Swierczek. The group was succeeded by a number of organisations including Direct Action Middle Germany and the Social Revolutionary Workers Front, all of which were banned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Front

The National Offensive (German: Nationale Offensive; abbreviated NO) was a German neo-Nazi party, which existed from July 3, 1990 to December 22, 1992.

It was founded by Michael Swierczek, the former chairman of the Free German Workers' Party (FAP) in Bavaria, who became the chairman of the NO, and Carlo Bauer, the president of the NO, during the collapse of the FAP for disappointed - mostly Bavarian - members of that party.

The focus of the platform of the NO was its fight against immigrants. It considered the blending of cultures to be genocide, and therefore called for the deportation of foreigners, tightening of German asylum laws, and making it more difficult to attain German nationality.

The NO was unable to receive enough signatures to participate in the Bavarian Landtag elections on October 14, 1990. In February 1991, Swierczek and Christian Malcoci, another NO member, were charged with the continuation of the Action Front of National Socialists/National Activists (ANS/NA), which had been banned in 1983. By 1991, it reached a membership of around 100, as it was able to recruit members from outside of Bavaria.[2] As the party was able to gain more members in Eastern Germany, the membership increased to around 140 by 1992. From Eastern Germany, the party tried to establish contacts to the German-speaking population in Silesia, Poland, in order to establish a state organization there.

While the SS-member Josef Schwammberger was on trial for war crimes from 1991 to 1992, the NO publicly supported him. In 1992, the NO organized a series of lectures with the British Holocaust denier David Irving, who had been introduced to the NO by Christian Worch. The party took part in the 1992 Landtag elections in Baden-Württemberg, but only received a total of 183 votes, since it was only on the ballot in Konstanz and Singen.

On December 22, 1992, the NO was banned by the Ministry of the Interior, just one day after the ban of the Deutscher Kameradschaftsbund (DKB), and within a month of the bans of the German Alternative (DA) and the Nationalist Front (NF). The then Minister of the Interior, Rudolf Seiters, stated that the ban had been passed as the NO was an "aggressive neo-Nazi organization" that had agitated against foreigners, Jews and Israel. The residences of about 30 party members were searched and information materials, party documents, and floppy disks were seized by police. At the time the NO had regional organizations in Bavaria, Berlin-Brandenburg, and Saxony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Offensive

Links with Hitler, 3. Reich, Holocaust, nazis, skinheads, American WNs, hate groups means signing a death certificate as a political party in the BRD. The NPD is making the same stupid mistakes. They would still try to ban it without the nazi worship, but it would be harder. But since they make statements like "Hitler was a great man" sooner or later they will cease their existence as a political party. Especially if they gain more successes like they did here in the East.

Anyhow, I'm not against banning parties, I'm for a single party system, but if the state says it's a supporter of pluripartitism and freedom of associations with parties then if it bans them left and right it's not so true.

Guntwachar
Saturday, April 26th, 2008, 04:38 PM
That's Democracy people can choose between the party's but the Old politics can make sure some parties dont come in;)

Neo Nazi's and WN, are idiots thats how i see them but still i think everyone has a right to talk and vote for what he stands for but then again if they were supporting Hitler they were overall left wing...

Here its the same some "Right" wing groups cant even excist longer then a year so they all make small groups form together a new one and then next year again.
So yeah like i said before Democracy is a illusion you can only vote for the parties that they want you to vote for and you dont get any change, not that i want nazi's to lead my country but still i should have the freedom to vote for them.

GroeneWolf
Saturday, April 26th, 2008, 08:58 PM
German state vs NPD round 2, place your bets will it become 1-1 or 0-2. And also will many sercret agent have to find a new job.

Jokes aside. This hardly suprises me. In Flanders liberal Jews are acting against VlaamsBelang. So why not the same thing in Germany where they can exploit the nazi-ghost even more. Alto of course it is a matter of time before the ordinairy German gets enough of the demands of these Jewish organisations and stop caring about what they say.

stormlord
Saturday, April 26th, 2008, 10:16 PM
"Politicians must wake up at last," Stephan Kramer, general-secretary of the council, told Reuters.

"We need a signal to make clear the NPD is trying to destroy Germany and its democratic principles."

More information (http://anonym.to/?http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3532736,00.html)

The irony of that statement and who is making it is obscene. A Jewish man telling people that it's the NPD that's trying to destroy Germany, interesting, I thought it was a certain other group of people. Then he has the gall to say, "don't you understand, we have to uphold democracy by banning political parties and ignoring the will of the people!". The sad thing is most people wouldn't even have seen the hypocrisy there.

Berrocscir
Sunday, April 27th, 2008, 10:54 AM
I oppose all state bans. This would be a slap in the face to every NPD voter, the political establishment treating their electorate with contempt.

Question: where the NPD have representitives in government. Have they made any lasting impact, what policies have they carried out which could be seen as improving the lot of Germans?

Schmetterling
Sunday, April 27th, 2008, 11:00 AM
Saxony and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.


The party has never won the minimum 5% of votes in German federal elections that allow a party to send delegates to the German Parliament, but it was represented in several state parliaments in the 1960s and has recently repeated this feat.

In the 2004 state election in Saxony, the NPD won 9.2% of the overall vote. The NPD currently sends 12 representatives to the Saxony state parliament, the Landtag.

In the 2005 federal elections, the NPD received 1.6 percent of the vote nationally. It garnered the highest percent of votes in the states of Saxony (4.9 percent), Thuringia (3.7 percent), Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (3.5 percent) and Brandenburg (3.2 percent). In most other states, the party won around 1 percent of the total votes cast. In the 2006 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state election, the NPD received 7.3% of the vote and thus achieved state representation there, as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany

I don't know any links to a party platform in English.

Aeternitas
Sunday, April 27th, 2008, 12:04 PM
As said in the article, banning them isn't so simple. The presence of informants in the NPD shows that they need more than what they currently have in order to obtain a ban and they can't go for a bid right now because that would ruin it as the contacts would have to be severed and they would lose insight. Additionally, they aren't in the German Parliament (yet). But the more and more small successes they gain, the more and more calls for a ban emerge and the more and more measures are being taken against the far right, because it is not wanted that it enters Parliament.

Germany Fights Right-Wing Extremism (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1479338,00.html)

Katsav: Ban Neo-Nazi Groups in Germany (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/briefs/0,1574,1602793,00.html)

Jewish official calls for stronger steps against far right in Germany (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/20/europe/EU_GEN_Germany_Far_Right.php)

Germany Steps Up Its Measures Against Neo-Nazism (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2245946,00.html)

Germany Launches EU Initiative to Tackle Right-Wing Extremism (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2303695,00.html)

Until then they are cutting their funds and funding more "far right awareness" education. It's not really hard to find such material because they associate with neonazis/skinheads, get involved in festivals like "Hatewave" and the like.

Here is the NPD program (http://npd-warendorf.deutscher-netzdienst.de/english-start.htm) in English:


Finding new solutions.

The concepts and positions of the post-war period are old matters. The unification of the former regions of the FRG and the GDR, the collapse the communist system, the emigration and immigration movements in, to and out of Europe, the transformation of the industry and changes of the society structures and the doubt about the growing and dominant materialism, all those questions do require some answers. The government, politic parties and the society try by all means to continue in the old manner of the politics. The changes are felt, if noticed at all, only as disturbances of the well known world picture. The political established leader do notice with increasing disbelieve that they are loosing the goodwill of the people. As a matter of fact they serve as the only solution the "multi-cultural society" which should create a new society, demographic exchange of inhabitants, to keep the old politicians in the government, to let them rule as they did before. As the national opposition the NPD aims the exchange the old powerful class In order to give the German nation a future in the context of the European
National Family.

We national democrats are, with all consequence, against the dusty ideologies of the past centuries, against ideological utopias and against multi-ethnical excesses, to which are the German people presently exposed.

In unification with all right minded people in the world we are against foreign rule and foreign regulation, against national strangulation, exploitation and oppression. We stand for German independence, for independence of all nations, for a social re-organization in Germany according to our traditions and way of life.


1. Fundament of the state is the nation.

National heritage and culture are the roots of human dignity. It is the main task of every state to protect this human dignity and to bear the responsibility for the nation. The people are the carriers of the cultures. People differ by language, origin, historical experience, religion, value conceptions and its consciousness. religion, value conceptions and its consciousness. They become particularly aware of their cultural characteristic if it is endangered. The preservation of nation's identity is the preservation of the culture. Plain societies do not develop a culture as such, they develop something in the meaning of a civilization or loose society having only material interests. "Multi-cultural" societies are actually culture less societies. The variety of the nations has to be preserved.

The political organization structure of a nation is a homogeneous national state, where the nation is free to preserve and cherish their values, a state which guarantees the security, the future and material needs of its inhabitants. Germany is the country of the Germans and thus the home place of German nation. The life preservation of our nation and the protection for all parts of the state are the most important tasks of German policy. Considering this, it is necessary to keep good relations and friendship with all the good willing nations to be able to protect own people and to fight against the destruction of the home countries by multi-cultural, imperialistic and equalizing forces


2. Fundament of our people is the German Family

The smallest community within our nation is the family. The family deserves therefore the special allowance and care of the state. The family should be promoted before all other partnerships. National democrats reject each the community endangering "self implementation" and with it the accompanying limitless egoism. The family is the living link to our inherited traditions the teacher of the native language, habits and moral. The family is carrier of the biological inheritance. A nation which does let happen the destruction of the family will loose the own strength and vitality because without a healthy family there will be not any health nation in the future. Children benefit as a national political measure of the state should be distributed only to German families. Special protection should be given to pregnant women and the future life. Abortion should be permitted only in cases endangering the life of the mother or after rape. Social housing should have the priority and consider the welfare of the families with children having a high level of child friendly surroundings and the priority in communal planning. Together of the generations should be possible.

Growing up together with parents, brothers and sisters in domestic security, is the best natural education for developing the personality a child would ever wish. No patchwork families. The security of the intact family is the best way fighting against the increasing cases of psychological illnesses of the youth.

The task being a mother and/of housewife can't be compared with any occupation or job at all. Every woman being mother and/or housewife should receive a salary, classified considering the number of children, the educative skills and responsibility running a family. It should not be necessity to have work outside because of financial reasons having two jobs. Their old-age pension is to be secured independently. The same for single fathers as well. The NPD endorses woman politics, which grant full equal rights to the women and girls. The achievements of the women at the reconstruction of our country after 1945 should be appreciated.

3. All government authority proceeds from the nation

The national democracy presupposes homogenous community. Political organization structure has to be arranged to make it possible the for the authorized organs to act in agreement according to basic targets the nation aims for. The state should be objective and independent standing above the egoism of individual groups and taking the full responsibility. The exchangeability of the governments by democratic vote, control of the powerful ones by the nation and the examination of the legal standards of the decisions are the fundament of each legal order. Vacuum and outlawed areas can not be tolerated.

The influence of the nation, the people, has to be strengthened using the tool of the elections and referenda. To secure the government power by restrictions of the freedom and/or of the expression of the free opinion as well as monopolizing the freedom of the opinion according the targets of the dominant ruling classes has to be terminated. The president, as the head of the state must stand political non party bound not mixing in the political daily fight. Therefore he should not be selected by the parties but directly by the people using a referendum.

4. The economy should and must serve the nation

The economy of our people is not autonomous, but part of the whole one. The state must provide a framework guidelines to the economy; if necessary, arranging directives and carry them through, if the public interest this requires. Not the nation serves the economy; on the contrary the economy must serve the people.

The main point of the national democratic economic politic is the synthesis of business liberty and social obligation. Therefore the NPD prefers a free, social obligated economy. The guidance of the national economy is however the task of the state and is a subject to its final responsibility.

The industry as such and the service industries being transferred from Germany Into so called cheap wage countries is to be prohibited, morally condemned and punished with high taxes.

The unification of the German partial states the FRG and the GDR and the collapse of the monopolistic command economy in the GDR created new problems which an approach with the old economy concepts could hardly solve. The sales of enterprises and factories by the "Trust" and its successor (BVS) make of the whole Central Germany a complete poverty region with an enormous hardly to understand unemployment. The "Trust" successor has to be an integrated part of national property with the main task the reconstruction of German industry and agriculture. Instead of destructive consultation it should offer some positive structure consultation. The industrial research - a backbone of the production and processing innovation which has been eliminated as far as possible by the "Trust" in Central Germany - has to be activated again as the main task of the successor (BVS)

The medium size economy has to be restored as a vital component of our national economy and particularly make headway in Central Germany. The NPD will consequent defend the German trade, handicraft and their training programs.

5. Cosmopolitan broad minded national economy

The German economy including the foreigner enterprises active in Germany has to serve the German nation for its material safety and intellectual-cultural development. Social and economic interests have to be harmonized according the conditions of the country, people and ecology. The economy may not destroy Germany's environment and not alienate its population. The land and ground are property of the German nation. Every German has the right to work. The jobs should be offered in first place to German population. Men and women are equal considering the working area, their rights and their treatment.

The employees should take part in the production's ability. What the automation and rationalization at work and wages takes should be compensated through participation in the profit of the economy.

The NPD refuses the internationalization of the national economies which is being systematically put into the practice in the capitalistic economic system. This globalization of the economy is based on the outdated and wrong aim of the maximum exploitation of the earth by creation of economic mono cultures in accordance with the so-called "law of the comparative advantages". The NPD rejects the globalization of the German economy which is directly the cause of a huge mass of unemployment. The NPD demands one on the domestic habitat oriented versatile and well balanced social national economy. The international trade is a necessary addition to the national economy but may not scoop this out of its varieties and substance.

6. Currency, taxes and finances

The financial capital operating in Germany has to serve the German national economy. The limitless flourishing increase of the available capital in the capitalistic financial and economic system through subsidy -, tax -, credit and interest privileges leads to serious erroneous trends of the economy and therefore must be tight controlled. The national and private debt economy operating in Germany leads to a harmful blow up of the national economy situation. The NPD demands a tightening up of the law considering the legal basis for the prevention of such an abuse (art. 115 GG).

It does harm the nation, if Germany gives itself up as an independent state, to become a part of "EEC/European Union Europe" which has no obligations to any national oriented economy. The loss of national currency is a fatal step into the wrong direction. Any economic an finance politics of the national democrats with obligation to the nation can not tolerate a loss of national currency and financial decisions.


7. Social politics based on Solidarity

The national community prospers only when having a proper social justice. The fundament of social politics means the solidarity with the members of the community. It should offer the security to each member of the community.

We need a social politic in unity with social justice and economic reason. It has its task to strengthen the prosperity of the whole nation, the individuals in all periods of the human life, to protect people against unexpected distress and to secure care-free old age. A social politics according to the dream picture of the total welfare state, which burden becomes a nightmare to all working people, misses its task and is anti social. A social wage and salary politic should secure a sufficient and fair part of the income for everyone.

National democratic social politic should feel the obligation it has to the social weak part of the nation. Foreigners should be excluded from the German Social Security System. Asylum-seekers may not posses the right of a claim of a requirement to receive German social security benefits.

A durable safety device of all social achievement - including the old age pensions - is only possible by the introduction of a production-referred social security contributions considering the radical changes by progressive automation. We national socialists engage us for the new community order, which overcomes the existing group egoism and leads to social security and justice.

8. Germany has to be German again.

The interaction of high finance, government and trade unions brought millions of foreigners, the slaves of the modern time, to Germany. This politics is being continued by, the human and national dignity contemptuous, Integration. Foreigners and Germans are alienated equally from their homeland and losing their roots, threatened with the loss of their identity, leading up to the destruction of the families. In numerous cities is a huge ghetto forming in which parts the German remaining population becomes the minority in the own country.

The life in these residential areas, their poor school care and education level and the social surrounding field becomes intolerable. Germans and the immigrants face each other more and more hostilely. The internal peace is increasingly endangered by this development.

A fundamental political change must terminate the inhuman and hostile integration politics and keep alive the German human substance. The right of all people to have a future worth living, the right of the nations to self-determination, to cultural and national identity has the priority before unconditional, one-sided and short sighted pursuit of gain and profiteering. The members of other nations having a job in our country in the present should have the possibility to protect their cultural and national identity. This makes it easier after returning to their homelands.

We National Democrats demand the total cancellation of the so called "asylum paragraph" Art. 16 The world-wide peculiar and unique right of asylum of the Federal Republic of Germany caused not only an outrageous misuse but also a financial burden of billions. The task should be a world-wide regulation of political pursuit asylum in neighbour countries or in, if impossible, even in more distant countries of the same or similar cultural area. This solution is more human because the connection with the home country and/or families is easier and less complicated.


9. German Sovereignty and Europe of the Nations.

The European continent comes from one crisis into the next. National finances with their huge debts, mass unemployment, social decline, national disagreements and civil wars represent "EU - Europe" of he officials and technocrats. Lack of responsibility, corruption and inability form a system which instead of prospering suffers by the Common Market weakness.

To give up the national sovereignty, the DM currency to this wretched alliance of supranational technocrats and officials, to introduce the right for foreigners to vote, this all means destruction of Germany and giving all that up what past generations had created, our national community, resources, culture, all our national heritage.

In the whole world nations awake from a dream and refuse the multi-cultural unit illusion. Basis of a European re-organisation has to be the national order principle, the right of the self-determination of the nations and the principle of the national ancestry. Only then can "EU - Europe" succeed, becoming Europe of the nations, a healthy, strong, social Europe protecting its historical national diversity.


10. Germany in its historical shaped borders.

The re-establishment of Germany is not completed with the unification of the occupied constructions known as FRG and GDR. Germany is larger than the Federal Republic. The cancellation of the enemy state clauses in the Charter of the United Nations is the prime condition for equal rights of the nations.

We demand the revision of the border acknowledgment contracts resolved after the war.

Injustice can not be the basis of a durable peace between the nations. This shows up clearly in the last decade of the 20th century in which the nations from Balkans to the Baltic suffered under the late consequences of the First World War.

The loss of the German regions ignoring in disdain the historical entity of Germany can not be excepted. We persist consistently in a fair and in the long term peace serving settlement.

The arrangement of the states is changing. In the context of this re-organisation Germany has to aspire - in agreement with the International Law and the agreement of Helsinki - to a peaceful politic solution considering reunification within its historical grown borders.

In the meantime we have the obligation to help millions of Germans to keep their German culture, identity and heritage in the regions separated from the main body of Germany.

11. A nation without any past, its historical roots has no future.

Germany needs for its future sake its historical picture and roots placing the nation into the central and real point of view

We loathe the moral self-distraction of our nation by one-sided debt assignments debited to Germany, the revaluation of the high treason and the glorification of the ally war crimes.

We demand therefore for the protection of the honour of the German nation: The proscription of the one sided historical rewriting and slander to the detriment of Germany. We are not a nation of criminals. A confession of our former opponents that the purposeful bombardment of the civilian population, the murder and expulsion of millions of German civilians from their home regions after the war and the killing of the German prisoners of war are crimes which should be still punished until today.

No replacement of the liberty of research by a government ordered and political by law supervised historical picture defaming Germany.

12. The nature is the common source of life

The German landscapes are culture landscapes with the general entity of the nature. It is not possible the see environmental protection separated from the cultural development.

All humans are a part of the nature therefore the nature is not simply only a human environment. The materialism of the last decades speeded up the destruction of the natural living conditions in an irresponsible way. Unrestrained economic growth, radical landscape change, ambitious and out of proportions industrial projects, industrialization of the agriculture, urbanization of villages as well as the destruction of grown urban structures are irresponsibly expedited by established parties, federations and groups of interests. The one-sided adjustment at material values and economic obligations leads inevitably to the destruction of the traditional ties and culture. The people are alienated, disrupted and uprooted, loosing their identity.

The protection of the nature cannot be based only on one-sided economic considerations. The preservation of the natural habitats and sources of life is more important than the profitability of enterprises. Because of this reason, the National Democratic Party promotes the rural family business also in underdeveloped regions. The farms should be checked though for their environmental compatibility.

All genetically changed goods must subject to the approval and marking obligation in Germany

The funds for the atomic research program should be made available for the study and development of alternative energies.

The protection of the animals and the preservation of the diversity of species is a vital part of the nature protection. The avoidance of unnecessary cruelty caused to animals is self-evident. Infringement should be punished as a crime.

13. Education and culture are a part of national heritage

Using the fundament of the dogma of the alleged "equality of all humans" and unreasonable reforms, our education system is pushed into today's desolate condition. Behind these outdated conceptions of society changing reforms stands the thought, It is possible to create a new society of humans with the same abilities and the same achievement, using new education programs.

As the experience shows and the science proves, humans are unequal regarding their talents and efficiency. The realization and development of collectivistic equal education at all schools and universities carries the responsibility for its results which contains a huge palette of behaviour disturbances, mental illnesses and juvenile delinquency. The absence of erudition and knowledge as well as the absence of an elite are further the characteristics of this wrong policy

Promotion of talent and alternative high level education should be developed.

We national democrats are for the variety of the life and its features in nature and culture and therefore to the acknowledgment and attention of the natural inequality of humans. Humans are equal before the law and in their human dignity

14. Reform of Justice

There are serious bad disturbances in the German juridical system. Prevailing pursuit of the national opposition or toleration of the drug traffic by the juridical authorities and the political autocracy in the background. This law practice is not compatible with right-national juridical principles. In addition it endangers the law consent in Germany and ruins annually ten thousands human lives in the present.

The NPD requires therefore a reform of the German juridical system according strictly juridical national principles:

The protection of the victims by force crimes should be ensured.
Actual independence of the Justice from any external effect, in particular on the part of the executives, autocracy and the media.
Put and end to authority arbitrariness by extension of the criminal law regulations considering white collar offence.
Organization and stabilization of the police force considering the protection of the inhabitants.
Abolition of the injustice from the past in reference to the citizens of Central Germany, former GDR.
Re-establishment of the capital punishment in particularly grievous crimes by repeated sexual-, child-, robbery- or mass murder and grievous cases in the drug trade.
The long claimable accusation of war mass murderers on the ally side and the revision of the until now prohibiting contracts.
Deportation of criminal foreigners. The statement, there are stricter punishments in the homeland of an asylum-seeker then in Germany, should be not relevant.
Intensified environmental and animal protection by taking harder measures against polluters, particularly in the large-scale industry, prevention of cruelty to animals and the introduction of an effectively working environmental police.

15. Security and military should be based on national fundament.

National service is an honour, serving the German nation. Therefore the NPD affirms the national service in the German Federal Armed forces. Women may participate voluntarily in the military or serve a social work year. The courageous attitude of German soldiers of all times must be a model for the German Federal Armed Forces. The soldier has to know what values he defends and that nobody forces him to serve and fight for other countries interests.

The supreme command over German soldiers must be in German hands. The proper education of a German general staff is necessary. The NPD demands the re-establishment of the military jurisdiction maintaining the necessary discipline.

National security politics must be aligned to national military politics. It has the task to keep the peace in Europe. European security politics represents the interests of Europe in the world and guarantees the internal peace in Europe with application of international law.

German armed forces may not be the tool of international great power politics. Therefore demands the NPD the withdrawal from the NATO and the creation of a European safety system.

Participation in the context of the UN are to be rejected, as long as there are the enemy state clauses of the UN statute incriminating Germany, therefore not all nation of the UN are equal.

Participation in the context of a European security politics require permission by the "national security council", which requires the agreement of the federal daily and/or the emergency parliament within four weeks. The national security council deals with all questions in the connection of a military participation of the German Federal Armed Forces in the context of a European Defence Community. Highest principles are always the interests of the national defence and the application of international law. Taking care of war participants and their relatives is a duty of honour of the German state.

Bärin
Sunday, April 27th, 2008, 01:46 PM
All states where NPD was successful are East German because here nationalism is stronger and because the economy is very bad with many unemployed people who are sick of the current ruling powers.

I think the NPD is generally kaput anyway, especially their ties with American WNs, not to mention their anti-Americanism and anti-Judaism leads them to embrace Arab "friends" and praise Iran's president marching side by side with Muslims. :oanieyes

Pax Germanicus
Tuesday, April 29th, 2008, 04:38 PM
All states where NPD was successful are East German because here nationalism is stronger and because the economy is very bad with many unemployed people who are sick of the current ruling powers.

I think the NPD is generally kaput anyway, especially their ties with American WNs, not to mention their anti-Americanism and anti-Judaism leads them to embrace Arab "friends" and praise Iran's president marching side by side with Muslims. :oanieyes
Agreed, their foreign policy is suicidal.

Bärin
Tuesday, April 29th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Agreed, their foreign policy is suicidal.
Ja, but not just the foreign policy, their whole policy. They destroy their image and no one believes them anymore when they say they aren't neonazis.

http://www.taz.de/blogs/wp-inst/wp-content/blogs.dir/10/files/2006/09/0,1020,647441,00.jpg

Aeternitas said they got involved with Hatewave festival, here's some info on it:

In May 2005, four neofascist European groups (NPD from Germany, Forza Nueva from Italy, Falanx from Spain and Chrisi Avgi from Greece) announced that they would organize their first European Youth Camp on the 16 - 18 September in Greece, without specifying the exact location... According to their timetable, there was going to be a music festival named "Hatewave" with white power groups from Italy, UK, Germany and Greece...

Then they say they aren't haters? Hatewave... Hallo? Give me a break. Who is going to believe them anymore? You reap what you sow, NPD. :oanieyes

SwordOfTheVistula
Thursday, May 1st, 2008, 07:25 AM
especially their ties with American WNs

They don't really have much of any ties to us, since they don't speak much English, and are primarily 'old media' and lag behind in internet usage

The only European party we have significant ties to is the BNP, we gave them a lot of money in the 90s when exchange rates were better and they were experiencing 'lean times'

The only relationship we have with German nationalists is hiding out some of them temporarily (Jurgen Graf, Ernst Zundel, Hendrik Mobus, etc) before our government deports them on 'immigration violations' and they go back to prison in Germany, also we host internet sites and handle music production for most central European countries which have 'anti-hate' laws.

As far as actual NPD people, we have no contact with them at all really. Their relationship with Iran/muslims boosts them in the eyes of national socialists and other fringe elements here, but is a bad mark in the eyes of the more mainstream American WNs, that is the ones who actually have money to donate.

Siebenbürgerin
Thursday, May 1st, 2008, 12:55 PM
Maybe Bärin has more Information but I heard that the NPD had contacts with White Nationalists too. Here from the Wikipedia Article about NPD:

...Voigt has held meetings with various white nationalist ideologues, such as the American David Duke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany

Thety were also in Contact with the American Duo Prussian Blue.

In 2006, a compilation album was released through the National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) titled For The Fatherland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_(American_duo)

If I had voting Rights in Germany I'd either vote for the DVU or the REP instead of the NPD, they are unfortunately slowly falling into the "white Trash" Category in my Opinion.

SwordOfTheVistula
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 10:46 AM
David Duke has lived in Europe for the past several years, he has mostly worn out his welcome in the US due to 'financial irregularities'


The NPD has many defects, but I would vote for them if I lived there simply because they are the biggest nationalist party there, and the most likely to win seats in legislatures.

Schmetterling
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 11:11 AM
The NPD has many defects, but I would vote for them if I lived there simply because they are the biggest nationalist party there, and the most likely to win seats in legislatures.
I'm pretty sure if it won any seats in the Parliament, and thus become a really considerable threat to Israel and the Federal Republic, it would be banned.

Nachtengel
Friday, September 11th, 2009, 05:25 PM
They just don't get tired of it, do they...


Right wing extremist political party, the NPD, was re-elected in Saxony two weeks ago. Now a leading politician in Bavaria wants to seek a national ban on them. But his push is causing political conflict. Because while most German politicians want to stop the NPD, they can't decide how best to do so.

The far-rightNational Democratic Party (NPD) recently made gains in state elections in Saxony. Now a politician in the German state of Bavaria wants to launch a new bid to ban them.

"Bavaria will not just look on as the NPD, an enemy of the constitution, drives to establish itself," Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann, a member of the conservative Christian Social Union (CSU), told the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper.

By pushing to take the case to Germany's highest court, the CSU, which rules Bavaria in a coalition with the Free Democratic party (FDP), is breaking ranks with its sister party, Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU). The CDU in no way supports or endorses the NPD and would be pleased to see it disappear from the political stage altogether. But the CDU wants to avoid another failure to ban the group at Germany's Federal Constitutional Court. They would prefer simply to wait until the party is pushed back into the margins of society or for a more opportune time to launch another offensive against them.

Continued: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,648086,00.html

Bärin
Friday, September 11th, 2009, 05:45 PM
:oanieyes

How is it their business what successful results the NPD has in the East? :thumbdown I never trusted these "conservatives", least of all Xtians.

Nachtengel
Monday, February 1st, 2010, 11:26 AM
Seven years after Germany’s high court refused to ban the neo-Nazi NPD party, a growing number of politicians are advocating a renewed attempt to end their legitimacy.

Members of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservative Christian Democrats (CDU), their Bavarian sister party the CSU, and opposition centre-left Social Democrats (SPD) want the right-wing extremists off the country’s political playing field, daily Bild reported on Monday.

“The NPD follows clearly anti-constitutional goals and must disappear from the political landscape,” Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann (CSU) told the paper. “I am working on a new case for an NPD ban.”

To strengthen his case, Herrmann encouraged the country’s domestic intelligence agency to disengage its top spies in surveillance of NPD leadership. The 2003 ban request reportedly failed because the constitutional court believed that domestic intelligence agents from the Verfassungsschutz could have influenced the actions of the neo-Nazis under their watch.

“For a successful ban we don’t need the information from (them),” Herrmann told the paper. “There is enough material that proves the NPD is an enemy of the constitution.”

SPD member and Berlin Interior Minister Ehrhart Körting agreed.

"According to my estimation the NPD is an anti-constitutional party that should be banned," he told the paper. "This is open to see. For this I don’t need any (Verfassungsschutz) people."

Meanwhile Interior Minister for the state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania Lorenz Caffier (CDU) told the paper that existing evidence shows the right-wing extremist party to be aggressively attempting to attack Germany democracy and replace it with Nazi ideology.

SPD interior expert Sebastian Edathy also supported the disengagement of intelligence agents to further the case against the neo-Nazi party.

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100201-24945.html

celticviking
Saturday, November 26th, 2011, 02:02 PM
A majority of Germans are in favor of banning the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD), especially since the discovery of a neo-Nazi cell believed to have murdered 10 foreigners, a recent poll shows.

The survey, which was conducted by the Forschungsgruppe Wahlen polling agency, showed that 77 percent of Germans want the NPD banned, with only 19 percent saying it should remain legal, AFP reported on Friday.




http://presstv.com/detail/212159.html

Ingvaeonic
Saturday, November 26th, 2011, 02:11 PM
The NPD is not going away any time soon, and nor should it. As has been repeatedly noted here on Skadi, these "polls" taken across Northern Europe are highly subjective and loaded to favour a particular viewpoint and party line; in this case, the left's hatred of German nationalist parties and anything that can any way be seen or considered to support, endorse, or at least favour German nationalism.

Liemannen
Saturday, November 26th, 2011, 04:41 PM
This is very disturbing information.

But it seems to be a rather small survey, only 1276 respondents.
Could we please have some of our German members to take a closer look at Forschungsgruppe Wahlen and this survey?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forschungsgruppe_Wahlen

Bernhard
Saturday, November 26th, 2011, 04:45 PM
Give the people a Muslim terrorist attack and a new poll will probably show opposite results. This is exactly why the masses should not lead - although these polls always reveil interesting information on the nature of "public opinion" at the moment.

Hesse
Sunday, November 27th, 2011, 06:05 AM
A majority of Germans are in favor of banning the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD), especially since the discovery of a neo-Nazi cell believed to have murdered 10 foreigners, a recent poll shows.

10 foreigners isn't a lot, I'm surprised it made the news. The key word here is "believed", it is not proven that this "neo-Nazi cell" caused the death of 10 foreigners. But the media is always looking to criminalize something that gets in the way of their agenda.

Feyn
Tuesday, November 29th, 2011, 04:56 AM
Don´t worry, they are talking about this since the 60ies, and a serious attempt in 2003 failed so miserably that they won´t take the risk of trying it again and fail again. Something like that could kill your career, so why risk it ?

Frostbite
Tuesday, November 29th, 2011, 07:28 PM
Isn't banning political beliefs you don't agree with something a fascist would do?

I found the irony hilarious :D

Huginn ok Muninn
Tuesday, November 29th, 2011, 07:31 PM
Isn't banning political beliefs you don't agree with something a fascist would do?

I found the irony hilarious :D

Don't you mean hypocrisy? :P

Frostbite
Tuesday, November 29th, 2011, 07:35 PM
Don't you mean hypocrisy? :P

That too :P

Svante
Thursday, January 26th, 2012, 12:16 AM
A majority of Germans are in favor of banning the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD), especially since the discovery of a neo-Nazi cell believed to have murdered 10 foreigners, a recent poll shows.
there are perhaps many Germans who also want banning the left political party. also the Nazi cell it is not proven commit any crime. i dont think it is right to ban NPD because of this.

Sigurd
Thursday, January 26th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Isn't banning political beliefs you don't agree with something a fascist would do?

Not in the "freest state to ever exist on German soil", as the FRG pompously styles itself. :)

Nachtengel
Friday, February 17th, 2012, 05:59 PM
The leaders of Germany's far-right NPD seek to project the party as mainstream and reasonable. In truth, however, the party is a melting pot for racists, Hitler worshippers and enemies of democracy. There are plenty of reasons to ban the party. But would it make the NPD more dangerous than ever? By SPIEGEL Staff

Holger Apfel meets with SPIEGEL in his office in the eastern German city of Dresden, with a view of the Semper Opera House. For this meeting to discuss his right-wing extremist views, he is wearing a gray, midrange suit by Mishumo and socks by Tommy Hilfiger. He appears to have a comfortable body mass index in the region of 30, and his stomach is pressing against the buttons of his blue business shirt. He is soft-spoken and has a slight lisp.

Apfel, who has been the new chairman of the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) since November, says that his party finally wants to appeal to ordinary citizens and to address their concerns, fears and hardships. The NPD, he says, is a party that comes from the center of the population and is for the center of the population.

But, in the northeastern state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, a very different face of the party is on display -- one that reveals Apfel's rhetoric for the charade it is.

The NPD's office there is on an arterial road in the town of Grevesmühlen. The local branch of the party has its headquarters on a commercial strip occupied by the likes of the local construction yard, a carpet store and a Mercedes dealership. The black, white and red flag of the German Reich flying above the property identifies the NPD office, which is surrounded by a 2-meter (6.5-foot) fence topped with barbed wire. Behind the fence is a watchtower, complete with floodlights, next to a building with bars on the windows.

The Germanic Elhaz rune, the symbol of the Third Reich's "Lebensborn" program, which supported the production of racially pure Aryan children, hangs above the entrance.

Welcome to a building called the "Thinghaus" in Grevesmühlen, the local headquarters of the NPD. (The name is inspired by the old Germanic word for a governing assembly, "thing.") Instead of being located in the midst of the populace, the building is in fact where the National Democrats are still to be found today: on the periphery -- on the periphery of the town, the periphery of society and the periphery of public beliefs.

Most of all, the NPD is also on the periphery of legality.Continue: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,815242,00.html

Aeternitas
Friday, February 17th, 2012, 07:22 PM
This talk about "threats to democracy" is mostly empty rhetoric used to justify these types of witch hunts. What's worrisome is that some of these people they are accusing and occupying prisons with are much more democracy-friendly and open-minded than the police state and its enforcers will ever be. The real threat to democracy is the police state itself - if democracy and freedom were of any value here it wouldn't prosecute political opinions.

From the article:

First, however, a fundamental principle needs to be considered, namely, that a party should not be banned merely because it is deeply critical of the prevailing form of government. This is the historic lesson Germany learned from the years of the Nazi reign of terror, when Hitler united society under the swastika and had parties like the Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party banned.
That's one of the reasons they want to ban the NPD and harass groups and individuals who are critical of the regime. The will of the people is not of any interest here, the state only cares about preserving itself. And they have already banned other "nazi" parties and orgs, so it looks like they learned no such historical lesson anyways. They do exactly what they criticize the former NS regime for.

Btw, the irony is they couldn't ban the NPD so far considering the "racists, Hitler worshippers and enemies of democracy" were more often than not agents provocateur sent by constitution protectionists themselves.

velvet
Friday, February 17th, 2012, 08:26 PM
Btw, the irony is they couldn't ban the NPD so far considering the "racists, Hitler worshippers and enemies of democracy" were more often than not agents provocateur sent by constitution protectionists themselves.

That was the reason why the Constitutional Court didnt accept the lawsuit in 2003, which explicitly says not much about the party.

But personally I consider the chances for a ban of the NPD near zero. And if it ever comes to a court case, the outcome risks to crushing the Basic Law in favor of the 1938 Constitution. The verdict of 1973 has never been revised, the BRD still only is a temporary re-organisation of a part of the German Reich due to lack of political organisation of the German Reich. If the NPD would successfully claim to represent the political organisation of the German Reich according to the 1938 Constitution, so in fact, not being unconstitutional, only rejecting the (partly illegally imposed) BL... the legal implications following from that would be quite troublesome for the BRD politics.

In fact, the BRD's only chance of outlawing the NPD is via a political decision WITHOUT the court, and that too would be unconstitutional according to both the BL and the GR Constitution, and would reveal the BRD regime for what it is: a totalitarian dictatorship suppressing political opinions.

DasReich_
Sunday, February 19th, 2012, 11:08 AM
Anyway, The main body of NPD militants is full of Skinheads, sad but true, the NPD will never get out from the political shadows in where they remain until they really pull out all those "urban tribe followers" and really try to draw attention of authentic NS, Nationalists or similars to fill their rows, that way they will be able to draw the attention of the common people...

Huginn ok Muninn
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 06:00 AM
BERLIN, March 17 (UPI) -- The German government wants to pull undercover informants out of the National Democratic Party, a first step toward banning the far-right group.

A previous effort at a ban ended with a 2003 court decision that evidence gathered by the informants could not be used. The interior ministers of the 16 German states agreed recently to stop using infiltrators in the party, generally known by its German initials, NPD, Deutsche Welle reported.

Only two parties were banned in the post-World War II era in West Germany and none in Germany since reunification. The Socialist Reich Party, a successor to the National Socialist or Nazi Party, was banned in 1952 and the Communist Party in 1956.

Critics describe the NPD as a neo-Nazi organization. In 2006, NPD members in the state assembly in Saxony protested a decision to hold a moment of silence to mark the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp but not to mark the 60th anniversary of the bombing of Dresden.

Pressure for a ban has also grown since a series of killings of nine immigrants and a police officer was blamed on a neo-Nazi gang. But investigators have not been able to prove a strong connection between the gang and the NPD.


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/03/17/Germany-hopes-to-ban-far-right-party/UPI-79211332019313/#ixzz1pUsICJez

Slivers
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 06:09 AM
Pressure for a ban has also grown since a series of killings of nine immigrants and a police officer was blamed on a neo-Nazi gang. But investigators have not been able to prove a strong connection between the gang and the NPD.

Lets go into prisons in this country and start finding links between inmates and which parties they are registered to vote under. We could build up many "connections" with the democrats and republicans and completely start from scratch with the Whigs.
Pressure? what pressure? Go back to sleep reactionary left.

MCP3
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 06:11 AM
Only two parties were banned in the post-World War II era in West Germany and none in Germany since reunification. The Socialist Reich Party, a successor to the National Socialist or Nazi Party, was banned in 1952 and the Communist Party in 1956.
An outright lie.
There were more, and i don't count the Viking Youth etc in.
Here is a further example, namely the FAP

The Free German Workers' Party (German: Freiheitliche Deutsche ArbeiterPartei, FAP) was a neo-nazi political association in Germany. It was outlawed by the Constitutional Court in 1995.

The FAP was founded in 1979 but was largely insignificant until the banning of the Action Front of National Socialists/National Activists in 1983 when Michael Kühnen encouraged members to infiltrate this tiny group. A minor party (around 500 members in 1987) it experienced something of a growth after German reunification and sought, unsuccessfully, an alliance with the National Democratic Party[1].

Associated with Strasserism, the party managed to gain some support amongst football hooligans. The party continued under Friedhelm Busse from 1989 but it lost a number of members to new groups loyal to Kühnen, including the German Alternative (1989) and the National Offensive (1990)[2]. The group is no longer active, although some former members are active in the NPD, others in local Kameradschaften.

On February 24, 1995, the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany outlawed the FAP. The court ruled that it wasn't a political party but an association that aimed at overthrowing democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_German_Workers%27_Party

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/61/Free_German_Workers%27_Party_logo.png

ampersand
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 06:19 AM
Would Germany actually pull its agents out? It seems that by exposing who their agents are they would deal a massive blow to their efforts to infiltrate any successor organizations to the NPD since they'd have to train a whole new generation of agents.

MCP3
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 06:25 AM
Would Germany actually pull its agents out? It seems that by exposing who their agents are they would deal a massive blow to their efforts to infiltrate any successor organizations to the NPD since they'd have to train a whole new generation of agents.

Of course they wouldn't. ;)

It is just as much a lie as the claim

Only two parties were banned in the post-World War II era in West Germany and none in Germany since reunification.
See FAP example. DW is propagnda for foreign audiences and Auslandsdeutsche, so they want to appear as clean as possible.

ampersand
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 06:53 AM
That's true, but it makes it hard to work out how they'll claim to have got rid of the informants when the NPD can point to the 2003 decision and the fact that there hasn't been a mass exodus of informers from the party to prove that the infiltrators are still there. Not that the rule of law comes into these matters much!

MCP3
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 07:11 AM
That's true, but it makes it hard to work out how they'll claim to have got rid of the informants when the NPD can point to the 2003 decision and the fact that there hasn't been a mass exodus of informers from the party to prove that the infiltrators are still there. Not that the rule of law comes into these matters much!

See reason for FAP banning. They were charged with "being association that aims to overthrow the Liberal-Democratic Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Ge."

velvet
Monday, March 19th, 2012, 02:35 PM
Would Germany actually pull its agents out? It seems that by exposing who their agents are they would deal a massive blow to their efforts to infiltrate any successor organizations to the NPD since they'd have to train a whole new generation of agents.

The thing is a bit more complicated. The agents by and large are members of the NPD who are "recruited" by the Verfassungsschutz (Constitution Protection Agency) to inform them about the "inner" working. The agents are paid for their service, and many/most of the agents publicy state, for all to know, that they use this money to print propaganda and otherwise support the party's work. Everyone knows who they are.

The Verfassungsschutz could not even pull out their agents, even if they wanted, because they are not "placed" there in the first place.

Still, an "agent" who is paid is no reliable source, because he's obviously not "independent". Rule of Law is really the core problem of the govt in this, because our courts are independent from politics and rule by law and not by this or that random ideology.

And as said in my previous post, the case of NPD is not like the other party/political groups outlawings before. While they do object to the Basic Law, they do so within a frame of the Constitution of 1938, within the scope of the Deutsche Reich, which is still the term Germany is referred to in both Constitutional Rulings concerning the relation of Germany to other nations and in internal questions where territorital definitions are required. The 1938 Constitution has never been replaced, only amended by the Basic Law, which does not fully apply to the territory of the Deutsche Reich. It is, although it is presented as such, not the sole supreme law, and the govt of the BRD has legally no power over the Deutsche Reich, only - in limits - over the part of Deutsche Reich that has been "re-organised" with the Basic Law.

There have been rulings confirming the still full existence of the Deutsche Reich, where people claimed citizenship of the Deutsche Reich and refused law suits based on this by the BRD against them. I'm no lawyer, but I cannot see how the NPD could possibly be banned, since they also are fully compliant with the BL, are legally registered and acknowledged as democratic party etc, they even hold seats in some federal parliaments. Just because their opinion isnt liked by the powers that be doesnt make them illegal per se.

And imho, if this ever gets to the court, it will heavily backfire on the powers that be. If they place own judges, it would be easy to turn over any ruling, if they dont, the judges will continue to rule by law and not ideology and law doesnt provide the means to outlaw the NPD based on their party programme. In addition, the fabricated cases against the NPD will be put to scrutiny. And if they'd manage to outlaw the NPD based on ideology, they'd effectively deconstructed the democracy they allegedly wished to protect. So whatever they will do, it shoots effectively only their own feet.

Argos
Monday, April 9th, 2012, 07:26 PM
I think the problem ist more difficult for the German authorities than we ever think.

Firstly they have to pull out all their agents and up to then they are allowed to judge the party´s policy. What had happened before that date may not be the subject of the inquiry.

Secondly a real militant and bellicose position against the liberal-democratic Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany or other democratic values is needed. The demand of the abolition of laws even of the Bacis Law in a peaceful and democratic way is not unlawful and must be tolerated !

This precondition never will be discovered neither in the party´s newspapers nor in speeches of its functionaries nor in party life !!

Argos
Friday, January 13th, 2017, 05:57 PM
State Hopes to Ban NPD Fade
January 13, 2017

The German state’s hopes of banning the National Democratic Party appear to be fading as the Karlsruhe Constitutional Court nears its final ruling on January 17, liberal German media has admitted.

Der Freitag newspaper—a leftist journal with close links to Britain’s Guardian newspaper—said in a new article that “there is currently no question of optimism” on the case—that is, there is little hope that the banning attempt will succeed.

The legal effort to squash Germany’s only nationalist party was launched in March 2016, when the governments of all sixteen federal German states, governed by the establishment parties—the Christian Socialist Union (CSU), Christian Democratic Union (CDU), Socialist Party of Germany (SPD), the Greens, and the Left (Die Linke, the former East German Communist Party)—started their combined effort.

According to Der Freitag, the federal government did not want to get involved in the effort, because it “seems to have little hope.”

In addition, however, the “federal states are now also expecting a defeat.”

To console its readers, Der Freitag went on to add that “in the event of a failure, however, the state’s disgrace would not be as great as in the first attempt.”

This refers to the 2003 attempt to ban the party which failed after it was revealed that the internal state security agency had been responsible for generating the “evidence” through its planted agents within the party.

The revelations were, Der Freitag said, “a political disaster for the red-green federal government, and above all for its then interior minister, Otto Schily.”

The latest attempt to ban the NPD comes after “attempts were made to increase the chances of a successful ban by removing all the informers” from within the party.

Now, it seems, there is not enough “evidence” to convict the party, and, Der Freitag added, there is a “new legal problem,” namely that it is “questionable whether a prohibition would also stand before the European Court of Human Rights.”

For such a prohibition to make it past the European court, there has to be a “concrete threat to the state,” and, Der Freitag admits, the German constitutional will “probably be guided by this.”

The paper goes on to lament the fact that “a few years ago, the chances of banning the NPD would have been greater as the party won seats in all the East German regional parliaments.”

Since the party has lost most of those seats in later elections, the “threat” has apparently subsided—in other words, the “democrats” of the German political establishment were only really concerned that Germans might stop voting for them.

In its reaction, the NPD said the court case was “not just about the party, but about fundamental rights such as freedom of expression and freedom of assembly. A whole range of opinions, from criticism of mass migration and of alienation, and the demand for German national sovereignty, are being put to the test.”

“If the ban on a comparatively small party like the NPD succeeds,” the official statement continued, “everyone will have to think carefully about what they might say in this allegedly free country. Any patriotic party, any national club, could he held by the same standard.”

The party also confirmed that no matter what the outcome of the case, its “functionaries, members, and sympathizers will continue their political struggle for a free and German homeland. NPD members are well accustomed to the political home which they have chosen, and are used to being banned from work, schools, and universities, and have never let this stop them before.”

“We regard it as the highest duty of every German to stand up for the future of our own people. This will not change after January 17!” the party statement ended.

http://newobserveronline.com/state-hopes-ban-npd-fade/

Wulfaz
Friday, January 13th, 2017, 07:32 PM
Ban the Nazis, the hier of the mass murderers, the destroyers of the Sacred Germany!

Long live to the Sacred Germany! :fdeutsch

Sven
Friday, January 13th, 2017, 08:00 PM
Ban the Nazis, the hier of the mass murderers, the destroyers of the Sacred Germany!

Long live to the Sacred Germany! :fdeutsch

I would respectfully disagree. While I'm not exactly a fan, I think they are needed to divert attention from the AFD, and enable the latter to pose as a moderate right wing alternative. An NPD ban would also strengthen the powers that be and their crusade against all things right, and I most certainly can do without Maas' smug face on TV telling us 'justice has been done'.

Georgia
Saturday, January 14th, 2017, 02:33 AM
Wulfaz,

National Socialism did NOT destroy a "Sacred Germany." There was no "Sacred Germany" when the National Socialists came into power. There was a poor and starving nation which was conquered living under the genocidal Versailles Treaty; also this NOT "Sacred Germany" was getting more and more degenerate with morals collapsing, street fights every day lead by the communists who were on the move and making great strives forward to gain control of the heart of Europe which is Deutschland. The NPD is not a destroyer of a "Sacred Germany." Stauffenberg, although a man with strong convictions and honor, was not a hero. And he paid for his actions.

You desperately need many history lessons and stay away from the Idiot Box. I recommend for you to start with the book 'DER ERZWUNGENE KRIEG' by US historian David L. Hoggan. Once you have digested this book then read "Mein Kampf" by Adolf Hitler. Have you even opened this book at all?
At present a bestseller in Europe. Then I encourage you to research the following site http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/deutsch/willkommen.html (http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/deutsch/willkommen.html)
which holds a fountain of historical facts.

One does not have to be a National Socialist to disagree with your inappropriate statements which not only show ignorance about history through and through but they are also offensive.

Georgia

Catterick
Saturday, January 14th, 2017, 06:22 AM
Where is Phlegethon? ;)

Anyway I like the NDP and Nazis, for their faults, did not destroy Germany deliberately.

Nachtengel
Saturday, January 14th, 2017, 03:49 PM
@Wulfaz

1. The NPD aren't NS or neo-nazi.

2. They haven't caused a single casualty so to call them mass-murderers is simply deluded. I find it interesting how you constantly insult the NS but praise the Federal Republic and its symbols, who is responsible for more German murders than any other regime this country had, communism included.

3. In Germany the AFD are about as "far right" as the NPD and also considered "nazi" by many people. So to denounce one as "neo-nazi" and call for banning and shooting of its people while supporting the other also makes little sense politically.

4. Stauffenberg was actually NS himself and agreed with many views of the NS. The reason he didn't join the NSDAP and wanted to off Hitler was because he had issues with Hitler's command, and wanted to come to power himself. His views were authoritarian and he despised the mob, soda he come to power the regime would have highly differed from the FRG. Had he wanted to "liberate" Germany from Hitler, he could have killed him on numerous occasions, but he was too shy to risk his own life. He was an egotistical traitor who just wanted to assume command and lead himself. Plenty of those in any political regime.

My theory therefore is:

a. You have been brainwashed by mainstream TV and schooling system and possibly by the psychiatric community since you have an admitted history there. Soviets used psychologists and psychiatrists to manipulate and brainwash people's minds, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

b. You have an emotional issue and blame the NS for it. Were you rejected by a NS or conservative girl?

Either way, you're only shooting yourself in the foot. And, they won't ban the NPD. The reason they can't is because it's full of infiltrators and agents provocateur sent by the government. So the most extreme "neo-nazis" and skinheads on the NPD are actually government agents.

SpearBrave
Saturday, January 14th, 2017, 04:42 PM
Wulfaz , I hate to pull the age card on you but it seems I have to. I am of recent German decent here in America and I am old enough to remember what my close relatives who were members of the NSDAP said about Germany before the Nationalist came to power. Actually they talked more about that than the time during the Third Reich, who knows maybe it was their way of explaining why/how things happened. If you are calling the social democrats "Sacred German" then you are way off base. They brought Germany down to such a level of disparity that a strong Nationalist party was needed to right the course of social and economic decline.

Hitler and the NSDAP did have some very good ideas, but there were also very bad ideas to. Was he the end all to be all best leader Germany ever had, I doubt it. Hitler and the NSDAP were created out of a natural need to stop leftism in Germany at the time. Do I think it is needed now?, not really but some of the ideas are. What I don't like about National Socialism is that I don't think it is good for America, nor do I much care for what is called the "Hollywood Nazis" that seem to come from America more so than from Germany or other countries.

If you are truly a Germanic Preservationist and want to preserve the German people you would be against any Right leaning party being banned. Germany as with any Germanic country needs political parties that have the best interest of their people in mind at all times. Being an American I know what it feels like to be constantly sold out by your own government, and I have a pretty strong sense that Germans are feeling the same way.

Bärin
Saturday, January 14th, 2017, 07:39 PM
Ban the Nazis, the hier of the mass murderers, the destroyers of the Sacred Germany!

Long live to the Sacred Germany! :fdeutsch
You are deluded. Germany was destroyed and humiliated by the Versailles Treaty, and by the FRG. My family who lived under NS and in the GDR never grew up with or experienced what is taught by the FRG to German children: self-hatred and guilt. It's the supporters of such infamy who are guilty of treason.

P.S. the shooting of NS is illegal even in the FRG. Are you advocating shooting people for having German nationalist political opinions? Then you expose your true colors, you are not any respectable knight in shining armour but an anti-German hater! :thumb down

And you should replace your religion with "Love of political correctness" instead of "Love of freedom". Fits better IMO.

Sól
Saturday, January 14th, 2017, 08:56 PM
While the NPD aren't a neonazi party, they do have skinheads and other white trash amongst their lower ranks. If the NPD wants to get serious support through elections then they should follow the example of the AFD, who have gained more support in their first year than all the support of NPD in the past years combined. I don't see why everyone in Germany is getting erratic about an NPD ban when they have no seats in local or European parliament and they get 1 % votes on average.

GroeneWolf
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 03:01 PM
Oke people. This tread is about the desire of the German government to ban the NPD. If one wants to discuss Stauffenberg or other historical figures who are not connected with this party then one can do it in either existing treads (https://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=15304&highlight=stauffenberg) or create new ones if existing ones are not available.

Wulfaz
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 03:20 PM
Oke people. This tread is about the desire of the German government to ban the NPD. If one wants to discuss Stauffenberg or other historical figures who are not connected with this party then one can do it in either existing treads (https://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=15304&highlight=stauffenberg) or create new ones if existing ones are not available.

You are absolutely right. I say ban the Nazis whos are not Nationalist. The Nationalist party in Germany is the Alternative für Deutschland, no more. We must stop the nazis, before our allies, especially the USA will do with the CIA. This is not a child play. This is not nationalism, this is nazism.

http://www.marek-peters.com/fotos/neonazis/organisationen/npd/img_5699.jpg

Ossi
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 03:53 PM
It's amusing how foreigners always know what's best for my country. You don't live and breathe on German soil and you don't have a clue about the reality in the FRG.

What do you know about the NPD? Nearly nothing. Only what the idiot box and mainstream media which is what publications you read like DW and Spiegel Online are. You bash alternative and independent news sources because they don't support your politically correct delusion where the mainstream media and the state sees nationalists as respectable fluffy bunnies. Well let me rain on that parade: that will never happen. Nationalists and an ethnically homogeneous Germany is contrary to what the elites want. Their goal is to destroy the German nation. The NPD are among the few who have the balls and nerve to expose that. You hate on their skins but it's the skins who take the street and protect German women and children from being attacked by aliens. Never seen yuppies in suits do that. I have more respect for those skins like in the picture than for yuppie wusses who piss their pants as soon as it gets serious. Every party has different kinds of supporters. That's fine and good because skins don't need to be intellectual. But there are intellectuals and people in suits in the NPD as well. Most of their politicians and candidates fit that description quite right.

But what would you know? Have you picked up their program to see what it reads? Went to their events? Met and discussed with members and supporters right amidst they ranks? Marched with them or spent a day with the skins to see what they really do? Of course not. So leave it to Germans who have done all of this and to German nationalists to decide.

You lack the most basic understanding of German history to begin with. The Third Reich was one of the few regimes that made nationalism official policy and focused on us Germans instead of trampling on our rights and giving them to aliens. You waste your time here if you think German or Germanic nationalists for that matter are going to take you seriously. There is no "we". What exactly have you achieved that is even the tiniest bit comparable to the NPD? You've wussed out of your country's politics at the slightest threat and you've admitted to PC-proofing your posts because you are afraid of being called a nazi. So what exactly makes you a politics and nationalism guru? I have friends and acquaintances who went to prison and are back in the movement once they're out. So better get off your high horse and start seeing reality as it is.

Wulfaz
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 04:22 PM
What is the German Soil? Do you discriminate the Germans of the Diaspora, because wie did not born in Germany? We do not idiot about German politics, because we do not live in Germany. The NPD is a nazi party, everbody who search the google and read and see their text or speech, they can see they are nazis, especially Udo Pastörs. They are villains, no more. You look down us, because we did not born in German soil, but we are true Germans like you. The only national party is the AfD with Dr. Frauke Petry, no more.

Ossi
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 04:41 PM
I don't discriminate against true ethnic German nationalists from the diaspora, but you're not one. First off, you don't learn about my country from Google searches. Second, you have to leave and breathe in my country to earn the right to claim what's best for it. I don't claim to know what's best for the German communities in Hungary or Russia, so the same should be true vice versa. A German who loves his country and is interested in it visits real German society and spends time to get to know their true people. You write from Google and DW, I write from life experience and interactions with party members and factions in my own country. I marched with them while you were reading DW and Spiegel.

But if you are so keen on basing your logic on a Google search, which is pretty much the same as the idiot box, then your logic doesn't make sense either. Here's why. This is also found by a Google search:

'Nazi word' revived by German AfD chief - BBC World (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37337927)

German deputy chancellor compares AfD party to Nazis - The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/12/german-deputy-chancellor-compares-afd-party-to-nazis)

Germany's far-right party wants to bring back Nazi-era phrase - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/germanys-far-right-party-alternative-for-germany-wants-to-bring-back-nazi-era-phrase/)

New AfD Berlin senator: Nazi civilian killings were 'legal' - The Local (https://www.thelocal.de/20160921/presenting-berlins-new-afd-senator-ex-member-extremist-defence-league)

German AfD party candidate investigated for selling Nazi memorabilia - Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-afd-party-candidate-rudolf-mueller-investigated-for-selling-nazi-memorabilia-medals-a7324731.html)

Germany’s Populist Right-Wing AfD Party Draws Comparison to Nazis - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-s-populist-right-wing-afd-party-draws-comparison-nazis-n656806)

German Jewish Leader Calls Far-right AfD's Berlin Victory a 'Nazi Renaissance' - Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.742953)

Strong AfD showing in Berlin vote would be seen as Nazi rebirth: mayor - Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-election-idUSKCN11M0NH)

The mainstream media and antifascists are already labelling them as nazi. The Jews in Germany also think so and have warned about the AFD as a "brown renaissance".

So by your same logic, if the NPD were to be banned for being "nazi", then the AFD would follow. And let me tell you that is exactly what the people who are behind the idea of banning the NPD are. This is why they want to ban the NPD despite the fact that they have lesser results than the AFD: because the NPD have more guts to call a spade a spade and tell the truth as it is, and because it would be a legal precedent they can later use to sweep out other nationalist parties. So when you support and cheer for the ban of NPD, you basically join hands with the anti-Germans and Jews who want to remove nationalism from Germany. They never get satisfied with one example. The Jews in Germany are already warning against the AFD and calling for countermeasures.Mark my words about it and don't complain when they start talking about banning the AFD.

Say what you want about the NPD but they are not anti-German. They may protest synagogues because they are foreign on our land. You instead complain about German nationalists supporting nationalism and ethnic homogeneity in their own country. That's where you and me are not the same and never will be. I am a German nationalist, supporting the efforts of German nationalists in my country. I'm no NS but the NS have more respect from me than people who dress in a PC image for the same forces that sold out their folk.

Wulfaz
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 05:26 PM
I don't discriminate against true ethnic German nationalists from the diaspora, but you're not one. First off, you don't learn about my country from Google searches. Second, you have to leave and breathe in my country to earn the right to claim what's best for it. I don't claim to know what's best for the German communities in Hungary or Russia, so the same should be true vice versa. A German who loves his country and is interested in it visits real German society and spends time to get to know their true people. You write from Google and DW, I write from life experience and interactions with party members and factions in my own country. I marched with them while you were reading DW and Spiegel.

But if you are so keen on basing your logic on a Google search, which is pretty much the same as the idiot box, then your logic doesn't make sense either. Here's why. This is also found by a Google search:

'Nazi word' revived by German AfD chief - BBC World (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37337927)

German deputy chancellor compares AfD party to Nazis - The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/12/german-deputy-chancellor-compares-afd-party-to-nazis)

Germany's far-right party wants to bring back Nazi-era phrase - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/germanys-far-right-party-alternative-for-germany-wants-to-bring-back-nazi-era-phrase/)

New AfD Berlin senator: Nazi civilian killings were 'legal' - The Local (https://www.thelocal.de/20160921/presenting-berlins-new-afd-senator-ex-member-extremist-defence-league)

German AfD party candidate investigated for selling Nazi memorabilia - Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-afd-party-candidate-rudolf-mueller-investigated-for-selling-nazi-memorabilia-medals-a7324731.html)

Germany’s Populist Right-Wing AfD Party Draws Comparison to Nazis - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-s-populist-right-wing-afd-party-draws-comparison-nazis-n656806)

German Jewish Leader Calls Far-right AfD's Berlin Victory a 'Nazi Renaissance' - Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.742953)

Strong AfD showing in Berlin vote would be seen as Nazi rebirth: mayor - Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-election-idUSKCN11M0NH)

The mainstream media and antifascists are already labelling them as nazi. The Jews in Germany also think so and have warned about the AFD as a "brown renaissance".

So by your same logic, if the NPD were to be banned for being "nazi", then the AFD would follow. And let me tell you that is exactly what the people who are behind the idea of banning the NPD are. This is why they want to ban the NPD despite the fact that they have lesser results than the AFD: because the NPD have more guts to call a spade a spade and tell the truth as it is, and because it would be a legal precedent they can later use to sweep out other nationalist parties. So when you support and cheer for the ban of NPD, you basically join hands with the anti-Germans and Jews who want to remove nationalism from Germany. They never get satisfied with one example. The Jews in Germany are already warning against the AFD and calling for countermeasures.Mark my words about it and don't complain when they start talking about banning the AFD.

Say what you want about the NPD but they are not anti-German. They may protest synagogues because they are foreign on our land. You instead complain about German nationalists supporting nationalism and ethnic homogeneity in their own country. That's where you and me are not the same and never will be. I am a German nationalist, supporting the efforts of German nationalists in my country. I'm no NS but the NS have more respect from me than people who dress in a PC image for the same forces that sold out their folk.

My Great-great-grandfather was a hero by Isonzo in Italy in served the Austrian Empire in the WWI. My Great-great-grandfather promoted the rank of knight and I am a knight too, a "Ritter", and I have experience with the right extremist and I know that there are the agent the State Police, no more. Udo Pastörs went after the unification to east as a gold handler. Or a police spy? God know this. The NPD is a creation of the Government to get the people from the true national parties as the Alternative für Deutschland. The whole NPD is full about the State Police. And you never and never call me anti-Deutsch, I am a knight, you say that I just inherit, I served this rank, and I want the best for Germany, the Vaterland, but the NPD is not it. However the AfD is the way to freedom to Germany. They are not antisemite or racist. They are reply the answer of our age. God bless them!

Bärin
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 05:43 PM
The bottom line is, the ban is not really about the NPD but to ban the principles it stands for. People who support the ban of nationalist parties are not our allies, but shake hands with the enemies and therefore deserve no respect and don't earn the right to be called our blood brothers. Anyway I don't see why all the drama. The AFD supports some of the things the NPD also supports: German nationalism, Euroscepticism, Anti-Islam, Social conservatism. Those are the things which the elites want to ban, and I think we all know whose interests the elites are serving. And the truths actually vice versa, the AFD is a moderate party who wants to distract from the NPD. If they really cared about German nationalism then why didn't they discuss a cooperation or at least be more respectful towards NPD supporters, it's not like the AFD can afford to be fussy about votes. The NPD supporters could have given it that percent that was missing to make it anywhere in the elections.

Yes the NPD is infiltrated but it also has good people. I know because my husband and I know some of them. We live in East Germany where both the NPD and the AFD are big so we know what we are talking about. If it were a simple mock party then they wouldn't need to ban it, so you're contradicting yourself. They want to ban it because it is the only current party which stays truest to nationalism and speaks the truth even when it's inconvenient. Moderate, watered-down politics will never get anywhere. If they become complacent about some silly Facebook remarks, the will also become complacent about political decisions. The difference between Hitler and your fantasy knight politicians is that Hitler kept his promises to the German people.

Ossi
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 06:47 PM
My Great-great-grandfather was a hero by Isonzo in Italy in served the Austrian Empire in the WWI. My Great-great-grandfather promoted the rank of knight and I am a knight too, a "Ritter",
LOL. Of all the silly self-proclaimed titles on fora, yours is the most hilarious. And the most delusional. This ridiculous approach shows how little knowledge and respect you have for German history and tradition. In Germany, we don't put on the uniforms of our grandfathers and ancestors and claim their victories as ours, then I could pin an Iron Cross to my clothes and play war hero. No, we respect our ancestors and honour them, but forge our own lives and take credit for our own actions. To put on uniforms and claim titles for anything other than reenactment would be ridiculous and actually insulting the memory of our ancestors, who shed their sweat and blood.

I mean, you must realise how silly it is to proclaim yourself an Internet knight and a referee of German politics. You don't even have a say in the German elections because you can't even vote. I bet that most readers of this thread are smirking or shaking their heads by now.


I am a knight and I have experience with the right extremist and I know that there are the agent the State Police, no more. Udo Pastörs went after the unification to east as a gold handler. Or a police spy? God know this. The NPD is a creation of the Government to get the people from the true national parties as the Alternative für Deutschland. The whole NPD is full about the State Police.
Now you're contradicting yourself. If the NPD is a product of the state police, then why does it need to be banned? Eh? :insane

There are traitors, detractors and agents in the NPD but there are also good people. I don't care about the traitors, if they rat on their colleagues they deserve to be kicked out and face the consequences. But the good people of the NPD who take the streets and protect our women and children are worthy of respect. They actively involve themselves and do something for German nationalism. They don't wet themselves after a house search or because a cop is looking suspiciously at them. If they face problems, they confront them head-on and try to get past it. They are kicked but get back up and continue where they left off.


And you never and never call me anti-Deutsch, I am a knight, you say that I just inherit, I served this rank, and I want the best for Germany, the Vaterland, but the NPD is not it. However the AfD is the way to freedom to Germany. They are not antisemite or racist. They are reply the answer of our age. God bless them!
Again, LOL. You simply repeat the same empty rhetoric over and over again. I've posted evidence that the AFD are regarded as anti-Semitic by the media. Don't believe it? Ask the Jews. They're a people you seem to respect, but their opinion won't be the same as yours. As for racist, same thing. Ask the refugees and their liberal lovers in Germany. You seem to have much more in common with them than with German nationalists anyway.

You've supported the ban of a German nationalist party, who supports true German nationalism and a return to our history and roots. You can take the politics away for a moment, whether they call themselves national socialists, democrats or conservatives matters little as long as they support the same core values nationalists do. But you've called for murdering good German people over politics. And you've also insulted the working class, who make up a non-negligeable percentage of our population and also like our war heroes, spent their sweat and blood to plough and feed our people. The conclusion? I think most people in this thread have already drawn it. :D

Wulfaz
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 07:08 PM
LOL. Of all the silly self-proclaimed titles on fora, yours is the most hilarious. And the most delusional. This ridiculous approach shows how little knowledge and respect you have for German history and tradition. In Germany, we don't put on the uniforms of our grandfathers and ancestors and claim their victories as ours, then I could pin an Iron Cross to my clothes and play war hero. No, we respect our ancestors and honour them, but forge our own lives and take credit for our own actions. To put on uniforms and claim titles for anything other than reenactment would be ridiculous and actually insulting the memory of our ancestors, who shed their sweat and blood

It is because you are an ossi and I am the descentant of Imperial Austrian German. Here is Hungary this knighthood is reality, the chief-captain of the order is Arpad Joseph von Habsburg-Lothringen. I just suggest to you that put the Iron Cross, your ancestor served for this, do not be shame. It is simple the difference the mentality, no more.

Bärin
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 07:41 PM
It is because you are an ossi and I am the descentant of Imperial Austrian German. Here is Hungary this knighthood is reality, the chief-captain of the order is Arpad Joseph von Habsburg-Lothringen.
So what? Have you actually been knighted? I'd be curious to know what services have you rendered to get you knighted? Have you served in the military? What exactly does this order do to help the advancement of German people?

Or are you transferring your great-whatever's title to yourself?


I just suggest to you that put the Iron Cross, your ancestor served for this, do not be shame. It is simple the difference the mentality, no more.
This is why you don't seem to understand our culture. That'd be considered a dress-up. There is nothing shameful about it, we actually have some of our ancestors' achievements on display as an example for our family, but we don't proclaim them as ours. We honour our ancestors but not be trying to impersonate and transfer their actions onto ourselves. We keep them as examples to measure up to. That title was earned through some actions which weren't ours. I have 2 parents, 5 siblings and 3 children. If I claimed all their successes just because they're family I'd be a really achieved person. But I don't do that. I claim only my own achievements. I'm a good wife, a good mother and a German nationalist.

Our culture is to honour our ancestors but look to the future. We and the generations to come are the future and we need to at least measure up to our ancestors. But that's not the case now, because the FRG is breeding generations of moderate, wimpy, self-hating, guilt-tripped Germans. Throatily is that there are many people who think like Skadi members, but most of them keep silent. They're the kind of "I'm not racist, but..." type and the type that won't stand up for their convictions for fear of social rejection or due to a PC career motivation.

To be part of or actively support the efforts a political party is not the only thing people can do for their country, but it's one of them. The NPD is currently the only political party in Germany who are proud to be Germans and don't bow down just because the establishment disagrees. The AFD does that, and they don't get that they can't play by their own rules within the PC system. The FRG doesn't want nationalists in positions of power and won't allow them. If they do receive the equivalent of political breadcrumbs, even to retain these crumbs, they will have to compromise. Don't believe it? Wait or the elections. We've already seen a preview in Austria. The only exception was the US, and that's because Trump has some ties with Israel. If the AFD is "smart", they will do the same, water down their ideology and become more Jewish friendly. You criticize people who expose the control of media and the NWO, but here are some facts. The FRG serves the interests of Israel, just as the Israel Lobby controls American foreign policy. And American foreign policy also controls the FRG. Six Jewish Companies Control 96% of the World's Media. DOn't want to call them Jews? Call them Freemasons or whatever. The power of lies, deceptions and disinformation as Americans pay the price of collective stupidity.

“You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House. You see, I know it and you know it that no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable. What can they (Americans) do to us? We control congress, we control the media, we control show biz, and we control everything in America. In America you can criticize God, but you can’t criticize Israel…” Israeli spokeswoman, Tzipora Menache

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4fd9ee1e6bb3f7af5700000a/media-infographic.jpg

Still don't believe it? How about this?

D0kWAqZxJVE

The term "antisemitic" is a trick, a power-word of the anti-nationalists and anti-Europeans. It's meant to describe someone who says something which isn't convenient to Israeli interests.

You don't have to like NS, but the fact remains that NS was a nationalist regime, which put the German nation first and challenged this kind of world order. And Hitler achieved something Bismarck didn't, a Greater Germany with Austria included. So if you criticize it, at least be rational. Asking for the mass murder of Germans because they are NS and insulting them is not going to get you anywhere.

Nachtengel
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 09:48 PM
1. It is a fact that Israel doesn't have common interests but even contrary interests to those of Germany. It is furthermore a fact that the FRG supports the interests of Israel. So to call it a Judenrepublik is not that far from the truth. Is the truth inconvenient for certain elites? Maybe. Should it be denied for that reason? Certainly not.

2. NS architecture is a proud, upstanding architecture expressing the greatness of the German people. Welthauptstadt Germania was actually a very interesting project and the idea behind it was actually an all-Germanic concept.


Just as the Bavarians and the Prussians had to be impressed by Bismarck of the German idea, so too must the Germanic peoples of Continental Europe be programmatically steered towards the Germanic concept. He [Hitler] even considers it good that by renaming the Reich capital Berlin into 'Germania', we'll have given considerable driving force to this task. The name Germania for the Reich capital would be very appropriate, for in spite of how far removed those belonging to the Germanic racial core will be, this capital will instill a sense of unity.
— Andreas Hillgruber: Henry Picker. Hitlers Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier 1941–1942, p. 182. Munich, 1968.

3. Hitler united a whole Germany (with Austria), Bismarck didn't.

4. Calling Germans who support Wilhelm II. as traitors also shows an ignorance of German history and regurgitation of spoon-fed Allied propaganda like this one:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Guerre_14-18-Humour-L%27ingordo%2C_trop_dur-1915.JPG/263px-Guerre_14-18-Humour-L%27ingordo%2C_trop_dur-1915.JPG

Wilhelm II. was actually one of the people who warned Germany about the interests of a certain ethnic group.

4. Frank Rennicke's songs are actually pretty neutral, about German history, respect for the dead, our ancestors and traditions and they are enjoyed even by the non-NS and neutral people.

3e9zQeFD2hw

5. You are not a German national, so even if you are ethnically German, it doesn't put you in a position to lecture those German nationals who live in Germany about what's right for our country.

6. Your opinions have more in common with the cultural marxists than with German nationalists. Don't believe me? Start a poll and see how many German nationalists on this board agree with you. I have doubts that even those who disagree with NS would agree with your statements to ban the NPD, shoot NS people and accuse people who admire Wilhelm II. of treason. That's because it is ludicrous.

Aeternitas
Sunday, January 15th, 2017, 10:01 PM
A ban of the NPD would not just mean banning the party but would represent a further step in repressing freedom of expression and association. It would be in the long run not a stand against the NPD itself but against the values and principles that the party, its members and supporters/voters stand for, many/most of which are actually pro-German and by extension also pro-Germanic values. Or if we live in a democracy, then people have the right to individual and mass political association, even when this is critical towards the establishment. The state has traditionally been the embodiment of the nation and as such a responsible state government should be there to protect and serve its people. German philosophers such as Hegel defined statehood as knowledge and wanting of the political unity of all the citizens.

All democratic constitutions provide citizens with (basic) human rights, including the right to speak freely and associate freely according to political principles. An establishment that persecutes people over opinion and thought and blocks all peaceful, non-violent criticism is a tyranny and goes against the principles of a free and respectable community.

It is not even about National Socialism or World War II anymore. The war is long over and we have several fresh generations who know about those times only from books and from their ancestors. The word "(neo)-nazi" has become a homicidal word. Every political remark that displeases interested circles and elites could be nipped in the bud by merely being branded as ”nazi” and the state-financed and government-friendly press will back it.

In this situation it is only natural for Germanic and particularly German nationalists to feel and show some solidarity with or understanding for victims of political persecution. Again, this doesn’t limit itself to the NPD. If a party like the NPD were banned, its case could be cited as a precedent and further parties and organisations could follow suit. Particularly as right-wing, populist parties tend to gather increased support with the refugees crisis and the inability to contain it as a background. If the NPD is banned, the message that will be sent to the populace will be that they can no longer have the freedom of assembly. And, as its members noted, a whole range of opinions, from criticism of mass migration and of alienation, and the demand for German national sovereignty, which are also supported by other parties and organizations such as the AFD will also be placed into question. The other regime one could compare with such a scenario would be communism, which also persecuted and imprisoned people over political opinions and encouraged infiltration and espionage. Everyone was careful not to mention any taboo opinions, even political jokes, for fear that their colleague, employer, neighbour or even family would report them. Life under such regimes is a deceptive illusion, just like the support its cult establishment receives from the masses.

That said I doubt that the NPD will be banned at this stage. There are two main reasons why this wouldn't be the best idea. For one, it would be unconstitutional, since the FRG is officially a democracy, so a party can't just be banned because it is critical of the form of government. That would send the wrong message as detailed above. The FRG proudly proclaims itself the freest state to exist on German soil, so to ban a party simply for dissidence would inevitably associate it with restrictive regimes. Parties that were banned since WWII were actually ruled to be "neo-nazi associations aimed at overthrowing democracy”. The NPD is not only a legit political party, but they officially rejected the use of violence and simply stand for self-determination of the German people, so it can only be banned by the Federal Constitutional Court.

The second reason is as already highlighted, and the reason why the Constitutional Court didn't accept the case before, that many of these "racists, Hitler worshippers and enemies of democracy" from the NPD would turn out to be agents paid and sponsored by the establishment. The establishment and media have been also been trying to plant connections between the NPD and violent "neo-nazi" groups, without any substantiation. During the 2001-2003 ban attempt it was discovered that a good number of the NPD's inner circle were in fact undercover agents or informants of the German secret services, like the federal Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz. A central part of the government's case that was used in order to expose the party as "neo-nazi" was an anti-Semitic tract that was actually written by such an agent. Since the services didn't pull out/didn't fully expose their agents' identities and activities, and some were in high positions, the court found it impossible to decide which moves by the party were based on genuine party decisions and which were controlled by the secret services in an attempt to further the ban. Thus, it was concluded that since so many of the party's actions were influenced by the government, the resulting lack of clarity made it impossible to defend a ban. Considering such circumstances and history, it's a question whether they could clearly distinguish between party and state. Given the recent findings with regard to the NSU, that seems far from certain.

Finally, banning the party would bring it extra attention, something which isn't desirable in the midst of a leadership and financial crisis. The party is not represented at a national level and has only one seat in the European parliament, and is currently not the most supported right-wing party. The AFD won 4.7% of the votes in the 2013 federal election, narrowly missing the 5% electoral threshold to sit in the Bundestag. The NPD won 1.3%.

Anyway, the mainstream media is not exactly the most unbiased and objective source to use for such cases. If anyone is interested in reading their program, it can be found here (in English language). Many of their principles are actually decent and reasonable and some of them supported by much of the Skadi membership even if the politics/ideology/form of government differs.

Argos
Tuesday, January 17th, 2017, 08:08 PM
NPD Celebrates Victory over Stasi State
January 17, 2017

“Our commitment to the people of Germany is not unconstitutional,” the leader of the National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD), Frank Franz, said in his reaction to the second failed attempt by the Stasi state to ban his party.

The German Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe today turned down an application brought by the Federal States—all controlled by a combination of the major “democratic” parties—to ban the NPD on the grounds that its policy to keep Germany German was “unconstitutional” and a “threat to democracy.”

NPD leader Frank—who was clearly overjoyed at the outcome—said that it was “not just the NPD in the stocks today, but freedom of expression.”

He said the attempt to ban the NPD was also an attempt at banning “an entire canon of expression, [namely] the criticism of mass immigration, that commitment to the people and their inheritance, and the demand for German national sovereignty.

“The NPD will now continue the fight to ensure that the German people remain sovereign in their own country.”

Frank added that the flood of messages of congratulations he was receiving gave him courage that there are still many compatriots who want to keep Germany for the Germans.

“The Karlsruhe decision is an impetus for democracy and freedom of expression, and will boost us in our current election campaign in Saarland,” he said.

The court’s decision was preceded by a judgment which contained a barrage of insults and abuse, with the judges parroting the claims that the NPD was against “human dignity, integrity, and equality before the law,” and wanted to “replace the constitutional state of the Basic Law by an authoritarian nation state which was racist in character,” which “foresees no room for the participation of ethnic non-Germans in the formation of political will.”

The only reason why they did not uphold the attempt to ban the party was that it was, in their opinion, too weak to achieve its goals.

The implication of this decision is that if the party was, for example, attracting support levels of the Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) party, then they would have banned it.

This open admission by the court’s judges reveals the true rationale of these “democrats”—namely that they will ban any attempt by the electorate to replace the current political parties by democratic means.

The Stasi state’s previous attempt to ban the NPD in 2003 failed after it was revealed that the internal state security agency had been responsible for generating the “evidence showing how bad the party was” through its planted agents within the party.

An NPD election poster currently being used in the Saarland. It reads: “68 percent of all under six-year-olds in Frankfurt are of foreign heritage. This is why we have no time for the ‘AfD-lite’ solutions.”

http://newobserveronline.com/npd-celebrates-victory-stasi-state/

Argos
Wednesday, January 18th, 2017, 10:32 PM
"A new beginning for the German party NPD!"

The German Federal Constitutional Court refuses to ban the NPD for the second time

The German Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe yesterday refused, for the second time, to ban the National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD). The NPD, the oldest nationalist party in Germany, is thus still legally capable of acting - and is now also freed from the threat of prohibition.

NPD-Member of the European Parliament Udo Voigt, formerly NPD-chairman and invited as an expert in the now completed procedure, sees in the decision in Karlsruhe a political landmark: "From now on, we can move on and dedicate ourselves again to our political work", explained Voigt. "With the verdict now passed, it is official: the NPD is doing nothing forbidden, it’s struggle for German interests is a legal and legitimate part of the political will building in Germany. We must now emphasize our distinctive features and sharpen our profile as the only real opposition party in Germany. "

The judges in Karlsruhe tried to construct in their 298 pages an "hostility against the Constitution" by the NPD, sometimes with considerable internal contradictions, especially by reinterpreting the notion of ‘the people’. They now try to extend the legal notion of ‘the people’, in an unlawfully way, to all persons living in Germany. In this way, yesterday's verdict is a further attempt to criminalize and discriminate any kind of opposition against the open borders-policy in Berlin.

Udo Voigt: "More than ever, the NPD is today the only political force in Germany that is fully committed to enable the German people to live and survive in their own country. This mission will now shape our work even more. It would be best for the government, that has now failed a second time to ban the NPD, to finally devote their time and money to an effective fight against Islamic terror instead of a party that does not pose a threat. "

Straßburg, 18.01.2017


www.udovoigt.de

Namreg
Monday, January 23rd, 2017, 11:50 AM
You should have read the justification by the court why they didn't ban them.
They deemed them unconstitutional (read: they can justify banning them whenever they want) but couldn't be bothered banning them because they are so unimportant and insignificant and small that banning them is not necessary. They estimated the chance that the NPD will achieve any of their goals to be so small that banning them isn't necessary and keeping up the pretense of democracy can be the order of the day.

Does that sound like a victory for the NPD? Does it give hope for the great things to come from the NPD?

Wulfaz
Tuesday, January 24th, 2017, 10:36 AM
I think that in this thread I sat in the high horse and I was extremly arrogant. I beg your pardon and I am sorry that I hurt somebodies' feelings. Forgive me, please.

That is absolutely right that I have not any valid info via real life about NPD, because I never meet them. Moreover the Jobbik Party is not neonazi, just there are some neonazi among the lines and the leftist media always shows this kind of man with bomberjacket and skinhead. The average Jobbik member is absolutely not similar to this. If somebody drink 2–3 beer and tell some note about the Migrants or others that is not equal what the nazi regime did.

Moreover the AfD needs the NPD, because without NPD the AfD would be the rightextremist party.

However what is similar among us, Germans in Hungary and the BRD Germans that is the self-hating, the run away from the nazi past. However the war was 70 years ago, a lifetime of a man, our generation is nothing to do with nazism, only the leftist media want describe all nationalist as nazi.

At least it is not you and us, we are both Germans in the BRD or outer the BRD's borders too.

:fdeutsch

Nachtengel
Sunday, March 5th, 2017, 09:42 PM
Opinion: NPD can remain irrelevant

Another attempt to ban the NPD has failed. That is annoying for those who sought the ban, yet it confirms the strength of the German constitution. After all, the NPD is no longer a real threat, says Volker Wagener.

No, the renewed failure of politicians to ban the National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) is not a disaster. Rather, it is more of a blemish for the Bundesrat, Germany's upper house of parliament. The house has now failed to reach its goals, with scant factual evidence - for the second time in a row.

It seems its members once again sought to "crack a nut with a sledgehammer." Just as in 2003, when it suffered defeat before Germany's Constitutional Court alongside the Bundestag (the lower house), the Chamber of States and the federal government. No one is arguing that the NPD is not propagating an inhuman and racist political program. But that alone is not reason enough for a ban.

A cipher for Germany's Nazi complex

A party ban is the most powerful weapon in the constitutional arsenal. It is only applied when the free democratic basic order of society is under threat; that means, when the state is in danger of being abolished. And that threat must be clearly proven.

Honestly: Do we really need to fear a party that has no representatives in any of Germany's state parliaments and has never had any in the federal parliament? No, we don't. The NPD is simply a cipher for Germany's Nazi complex. That complex is understandable, and confirms our decades-long attempt to nip any return to Nazism in the bud.

Such a historically and psychologically nourished feelings of disgust for the unsavoriness of days past is, however, completely unsuitable when dealing with the legal cudgel of a ban.

The justices in Karlsruhe have once again reminded politicians of that fact. Thus, the NPD can continue its irrelevant existence. The NPD is a splitter group that only makes headlines with its disastrous organizational and financial situation. No, our democracy does not need to circle the wagons to protect itself against these ideological, lightweight "brown shirt" contemporaries.

The legal tug of war is decades late anyhow. In the 1960s a party ban would have likely had more chance of success and would have been much more urgent. Back then, the NPD had representatives in a number of state parliaments, sometimes with as much as ten percent of the vote - more than the liberal FDP could muster. Yet at that time, no one took up the initiative, although they had the same constitution tools. Many Nazis were still in powerful positions and the societal climate was very different. If the NPD ever posed a theoretical threat to the young Federal Republic of Germany it was then. Yet no one dared to take it on, they missed their opportunity.

The NPD was not marginalized until the Willy Brandt era (1969-74). And why? Because with Brandt (Dare more democracy!), German society moved to the center left, and the extreme right shrunk - all without the Constitutional Court or a proposed ban.

Fight right-wing extremism with good arguments, don't ban it
Our democracy should simply put up with the NPD. Restrictions only serve to make martyrs of the tiny party, martyrs that will soon enough create other replacement organizations. Right-wing extremist ideology cannot be banned - it must be confronted politically and intellectually.

Germany, its party landscape and its entire society have a completely different problem now. The supposedly dangerous bogeyman NPD is a historical relic. Our societal consensus, our democratic equilibrium currently faces a different threat: That of the Alternative for Germany (AfD), Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West (PEGIDA) and the new populism that seeks, and has in fact found, adherents. The electoral success of the new protest party proves that. And the same rule applies here: Forget the ban, and instead grapple with those attracted to this oversimplified worldview.
http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-npd-can-remain-irrelevant/a-37166137

Wulfaz
Monday, March 6th, 2017, 02:08 PM
I do not think that the NPD would be a real nazi party. The problem is that some truly neonazi skinhead lurk among the NPD voters and the leftist media always show them. The leftist media do thi in Hungary, where the Jobbik is not nazi party, just the same, some skinhead are among the voters and the leftist media always show them, not the normal nationalists.

Huginn ok Muninn
Monday, March 6th, 2017, 02:51 PM
I do not think that the NPD would be a real nazi party. The problem is that some truly neonazi skinhead lurk among the NPD voters and the leftist media always show them. The leftist media do thi in Hungary, where the Jobbik is not nazi party, just the same, some skinhead are among the voters and the leftist media always show them, not the normal nationalists.

What the general public is learning is that the media is not to be trusted. Right now they are trying to frame some sort of story that Trump and his surrogates conspired with the Russians to hack the election, which of course is ridiculous. You cannot expect every single nationalist to be some sort of angel in the face of mobs of violent antifa. The media WANTS us to all cuck out from fear and submit to their planned destruction of our people. No matter WHAT you do, the media will paint you as bad if you are a nationalist, because they are run, ultimately, by the anti-white globalist Rothschild family. Don't pick your nose, don't cough, don't jaywalk, or they will call you an evilnaziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews. The only way to win is to challenge the media and call them out for what they are - a bunch of lying anti-white scum. They are not the god of defining reality... people just bend over and let them pretend to be.