View Full Version : The Waffen-ϟϟ in Vietnam

Monday, July 12th, 2004, 12:58 AM

The Cold War could have been averted and the lives of tens of millions of innocent people could have been spared had the Nazis been left alone to defeat Communism in the early 1940's, something they very nearly did anyway despite having to defend their nation from America, Britain and France on an opposite front. Even immediately after the war ended much of the U.S. military establishment wanted to join forces with the Germans and keep rolling to Moscow to defeat what most intelligent people knew to be the real enemy of Civilization: Bolshevism.

Instead, U.S. politicians caved in to hysterical Jewish pressure and agreed to wholeheartedly participate in the mass starvation, rape, murder and looting of a former foe. (Not even Attila or Genghis had hanged defeated generals.) This was the fate of average citizens, and certain members of the German military had even more to fear from their "Democratic liberators," as the entire Waffen-ϟϟ had been declared a criminal organization they could not expect the protection of P.O.W. status.

Some units surrendered to American troops only to be turned over to the Soviets who either sent them to Siberian death camps or else beat/stabbed/shot/hung them on the spot, horrifying many American G.I.s. Some Waffen-ϟϟ units instead chose to seek out underground networks that had been set up to assist them. Cash, expertly made identification and visas to sympathetic countries in South America and the Mid-East was what awaited some of the lucky few who escaped.

Others opted to find their way to France, often on foot, to enlist in the French Foreign Legion. The Legion was, no doubt, well aware of the background of these droves of Germans who were willing to continue to fight and die, but it also desperately needed the experience and expertise of these war-hardened veterans of countless battles. Not even their former adversaries could deny that the Waffen-ϟϟ was the most efficient, fanatical, well -trained and well lead fighting force ever created.

At the time France urgently needed help. During WWII Ho Chi Minh had helped fight the Japanese in Indochina in hopes of securing independence for the colony from France. (The U.S. actually provided arms, advisors and even commandos to the Communist terrorist to help him achieve his goal.) However, French troops returned to the area after the Japanese departed, dispelling any notion of de-colonization. Rallying his countrymen, Ho Chi Minh began attacking French garrisons and committing atrocities which provoked the French into bombarding Haiphong. The Foreign Legion was expected to shoulder the burden in Viet Nam as De Gaulle needed regular French troops to return home to prevent a Communist revolution in his own country.

This gave the ϟϟ volunteers a chance to continue fighting the same enemy in a different uniform. German (and, it should be noted, many other nationalities who were members of the Waffen-ϟϟ) paratroopers and Partesian Jaeger (guerilla hunters) all flocked to fight the enemy once again. While the jungle was a long way from the Eastern Front, the Soviet cell structure, guerilla strategy and overall modus operandi was followed by the Viet Cong, and the Germans had long since learned the most effective means of dealing with this type of warfare.

They ruthlessly matched the terrorists "bomb for bomb, bullet for bullet, and murder for murder. Just as in WWII, the ϟϟ let the partisians know in advance; for every one of us killed, we kill ten of yours. It was brutal, it was ruthless, and it worked. When a convoy absolutely had to get through, when a French fort was being besieged, when a target deep in Viet Cong territory needed to be neutralized, it was the ϟϟ that was called upon time after time.

In units of up to 300 they were armed, given orders, and sent on suicide missions, although they often returned with few, if any, casualties of their own. They took death to the Viet Cong terrorists and beat them at their own game. After passing through seemingly peaceful villages of rice pickers, a few men with light machine guns would drop into ditches along the side of the road to await the reaction of the villagers after the troops had passed out of site.

If they continued picking rice they were left alone. If they immediately began scurrying around sending messengers into the jungle to alert nearby guerillas or attempted to follow the Legionaires hoping to shoot a few in the back, they were instantly mowed down. Another trick was to lie in ambush along a heavily used enemy trail waiting for a small group of Viet Cong to come jogging past. As they traveled spaced apart in a single file line, a skilled sniper with a silencer-equipped rifle could take out the whole bunch by starting with the one last in line and moving up, the ones in front never hearing those behind hitting the ground.

Sometimes the Vietnamese would try to hit and run, escaping afterwards by lying on their backs submerged in shallow rice paddy canals, breathing through reeds. A few grenades tossed in the water put an end to that. Knowing that the terrorists usually operated within a 20-50 mile radius of their own village, effective use could be made of the civilian population to curtail attacks. For example, when traveling through a dangerous sector, the wives and children of known local guerilla leaders would be taken hostage and held at gunpoint until the next village was reached, where a new batch of hostages was taken.

Once the gooks threatened to kill one French hostage every ten minutes until a particular fort surrendered. After half a dozen soldiers had been mutilated to death in plain view of the fort, the ϟϟ showed up. They had rounded up the families of some of the Communists known to be taking part in the siege and frog marched them to the fort, threatening to retaliate in kind. The fort was freed.

One time a few terrorists were captured who knew the location of French P.O.W.s but refused to talk. Knowing that time was of the essence the ϟϟ stripped the first prisoner, wrapped a cord of slow burning fuse around the man's feet and legs, ending at his testicles where a detonator was attached. The fuse burned an inch wide path up the terrorist's body, and blew his balls off. After seeing this, the second man to be stripped told the Legionairres what they needed to know in three different languages. The P.O.W.s were freed.

The Commies were being fought the same way they fought, and they did not like it. The ϟϟ was able to blow up bridges and destroy countless tons of food and other war material, eliminate thousands of troops and sow fear and confusion behind enemy lines as they travelled at will. The Germans were so successful that the Gooks began to avoid them at all cost, and actually printed "Wanted" posters of some of the ϟϟ commandos, offering up to 200,000 piasters for their capture.

As in Russia, the Germans in Viet Nam were always outnumbered, sometimes 20 or 30 to 1, but they always succeeded in out marching, out fighting and out terrorizing the terrorists. With a few more divisions or a little more time the ϟϟ was well on their way to ending Communism in Viet Nam in the 1950's. Unfortunately for us, a Communist Jew was elected Prime Minister of France and vowed to rid the French Foreign Legion of the "evil Nazis", which he in fact did.

With the ϟϟ out of the Legion, France once again started getting pushed back in Viet Nam, which brings us to America's reluctant introduction to the conflict. The average age of American boys who were sent over there was 19. Inexperienced, scared kids--some of whom had been drafted and didn't even know why they were there--who learned to regard the steamy jungles and swamps as impenetrable quagmires of death and confusion. American soldiers were soon demoralized by the senseless orders being sent by politicians at their desks thousands of miles away, expected to fight a foe they could rarely see, not allowed to fully destroy them when they could have, and always looking over their shoulders for a court martial if any so-called "innocent civilians" were killed.

The Germans, on the other hand, knew the role of civilians in guerilla warfare. In Communist dominated territory their are no neutrals, for the simple fact that if a village did actually refuse to give aid or comfort to the Viet Cong, they were lined up and shot. Either the villagers openly supported the Maoists or they were given a choice of helping the V.C. or getting a bullet in the face. In either case they were considered the enemy by us, and rightly so, for even small children and the elderly served as lookouts, transported supplies, loaded spare magazines during a fight, manufactured and planted bombs, mines, Punji stakes and other boobytraps.

The ϟϟ Legionaires had spent years in the jungle, not simply trying to survive a few more months so that they could go home, but actually adapting to their enemy and their environment, and winning. With mortars, machine guns, grenades, silenced sniper rifles and flame throwers the ϟϟ taught the V.C. the meaning of terror. They actually offered invaluable help to the Americans but were rebuffed.

Thousands of American boys died horrible deaths in a war they were never even meant to win. The best book I have found on this subject is "Devil's Guard" by George Elford, which I am sure several of you have also read. I have also read a few accounts of Dutch Waffen-ϟϟ being sent by Holland to fight in the Korean War in order to regain their Dutch citizenship, but I don't know of any books about this particular situation.


Source: http://www.tightrope.cc/update8.htm (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tigh trope.cc%2Fupdate8.htm)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, July 12th, 2004, 08:46 AM
A friend tell me of at least on SS soldier, originally from a Baltic country, who enlisted in the American Amry and fought in Viet Nam. Afterward, he returned to the US briefly and then returned home to this Baltic country as the Soviet Empire crumbled. He was a "forest brother" according to my friend who knew him (if that means anything) and he was interested in throwing out the communists in his home country even at this advanced age.

Monday, July 12th, 2004, 08:51 AM
Interesting story. I'd like to make one small correction. The French were fighting the Viet Minh in the First Indochina War. The Viet Cong was not formed until 1959. They, of course, were the ones the Americans were fighting.

The Viet Minh where more like a "united front" and included some non-communist Vietnamese nationalists. Their primary goal was to defeat the French colonialists, but the Communists had the upper hand, of course.

The Viet Cong were more hard-core communists. They were local guerrillas in South Vietnam and they were supported by North Vietnamese troops. Their modus operandi was terrorism.

Monday, July 12th, 2004, 03:45 PM
See also:

Waffen-SS in Vietnam (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8736&highlight=)

SS Charlemagne
Monday, July 12th, 2004, 08:20 PM
yes I renember that i had read many articles who related that many ex Waffen SS was use by france in the Foreign Legion for fight against Viets commies during Indochina war.
A unit special was formed with ex waffen ss.
in 1950 the majority of the effectif of the foreign legion was german ( ex Werhmatch , ex Fallshirmjager, and ex-waffen SS
After the war , the Waffen SS POW had been the possibilty by the french government to fight in indochina( viet nam ) in exchange to forget their past.
Many of them make this choice and continued to fight the communism in Indochina.
not only german waffen ss had this possibility , but also others waffen ss europeans and also french collaborator and SS. For the french SS the governement had promise to forget their past and rehabilitate them in exchange .

Some pictures :

Site about indochina war : http://members.lycos.co.uk/Indochine/cefeo/afvs.html

Monday, July 12th, 2004, 11:22 PM
The members of the Waffen-SS that fought in Vietnam were bastards for doing so. They were actively participating in suppressing the legitimate desire of the Vietnamese people to achieve freedom and independence from colonial and imperial rule. "Ho-Ho-Ho Chi Minh!"


SS Charlemagne
Monday, July 12th, 2004, 11:36 PM
They were actively participating in suppressing the legitimate desire of the Vietnamese people to achieve freedom and independence from colonial and imperial rule. This war was not a colonial war as many people think, french had defend viet nam against communists scums,viet namese aslo fought in french army for defend their country against Ho Chi minh.

Ho-Ho-Ho Chi Minh!"I hope that you are just joking , do you support this sort of man ?
Do you know the ravage of communism in viet nam, asia, and east europe ?
The Viet namese was not liberate when French was defeated by Ho Chi minh, they had must been supported Ho Chi minh regime.

Fraxinus Excelsior
Tuesday, July 13th, 2004, 06:39 AM
A friend tell me of at least on SS soldier, originally from a Baltic country, who enlisted in the American Amry and fought in Viet Nam. Afterward, he returned to the US briefly and then returned home to this Baltic country as the Soviet Empire crumbled. He was a "forest brother" according to my friend who knew him (if that means anything) and he was interested in throwing out the communists in his home country even at this advanced age.
Lauri Allan Torni, a.k.a. Larry Alan Thorne (http://www.taskforceomegainc.org/t375.html) did the same.

SS Charlemagne
Wednesday, July 14th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Also many songs of the foreign legion are in german because many Legionaries was germans.


Some song was copy of SS songs
Look this song , it's a copy of the SS march , only some quote had been changed but the song it's almost the same :

Vive la Legion ! http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Europe/France/LE/1repa.gif