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KveldulfR
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 07:52 PM
In Edred Thorsson's Runelore,Odin is potrayed as having different aspects, some of which are Loki, Heimdall, Bragi Hoenir, Baldur and other gods. Is Thorsson way off here or is there something to this?

Primus
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 08:31 PM
Odin is Odin, Loki is Loki, etc. Odin has many kennings to reflect his many guises (Bolverk, Harbard, the mysterious old man in Hrolf Kraki's saga, etc.), but there's a clear distinction between Odin and the other gods. What Thorrson is doing, saying gods X, Y, and Z are merely aspects of Odin is more akin to what the Greeks, in the philosophical schools, did with Zeus (i.e. Zeus as the sun is called Apollo, Zeus as the activity in the upper air is called Hera, the wisdom of Zeus is called Athena, etc.).

There is, to my knowledge, no such philosophical or metaphysical precedent in the heathen lore.

Ocko
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 08:32 PM
That they have similar abilities does not mean they have the same essence, the same individuality.

Loki was a shapeshifter, Odin is as well.
Loki was the firegod, Odin is the God of spiritual fire
Loki was a shaman, Odin is knowledgeable in shamanism

Differences are that Odin has nobility, Loki did not.
Odin is the leader of the forces of light, Loki is a representant of darkness.


I think E. Thorrson sees Loki as the 'shadow' of Odin, quasi the dark aspect of Odin. That way he sees the Gods as psychological aspects of men.

For my understanding the Gods are real and not psychological descriptions.

Primus
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 08:34 PM
I think E. Thorrson sees Loki as the 'shadow' of Odin, quasi the dark aspect of Odin.

In much the same way as Angra Mainyu (bad spirit) is the shadow of Spenta Mainyu (good spirit) in the Zoroastrian cosmology or Satan and Yahweh in the biblical religion. Duality in other words.

Ocko
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 08:39 PM
I think it is monotheism in disguise. It is not even dualism

Primus
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 08:47 PM
I think it is monotheism in disguise. It is not even dualism

De-facto monotheism was the assumption of neoplatonic thought, Stoicism, Zoroastrianism, certain schools of Hinduism, and so forth (in other words all IE-derived).

The belief in the existence of a single deity isn't uniquely biblical but I do see what you mean- Thorsson is trying to make something out of Odin that he never was in the minds of the old heathens. Odin was All-father, which didn't, doesn't, and shouldn't imply omnipotence or omniscience: any deity that is subject to the Fates, as Odin is, doomed to be Fenrir chow, isn't omnipotent (which a monotheistic deity is assumed to be).

Ocko
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 09:10 PM
One might see the life-force as the common domination of the Gods or anything spiritual and see that as the omnipotent being.

From my point of view there are only two essential 'things' in the universe: energy and consciousness.

Odin once slaughtered the giant and created the world out of it. Meaning consciousness ursurped energy and shaped it the way it wanted. The frostgiants activity though caused a cooling meaning energy became more and more dense into what people today describe as matter. That of course caused different problems which would lead to far here to discuss.

From my interpretation I see Loki as an energy being and Odin half as energy and half as consciousness. So they are not the same from my point of view.

Primus
Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 05:06 PM
From my interpretation I see Loki as an energy being and Odin half as energy and half as consciousness. So they are not the same from my point of view.

So Loki is, what, energy and Odin is energy which permeates matter? You could liken Odin then as being akin to the Logos of the philosophers, the fiery cosmic mind which infuses matter with its divinity.

Ocko
Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 05:58 PM
Loki has no ehtics, he does things good or bad without any consideration.

He is somewhat of an energy without direction, a loose canon. He has no aim but does what he is asked to do or does what he wants in other cases.

Odin has a purpose, he is the leader of the Gods. His aim is the wellbeing of the Asa and the beings connected to it, human beings following the Asa.

Giants are most likely the symbol of energies. (Once giants walked the earth in reality, there have been found human bones (tigh-bones) which came from a person calculated to be 35 feet tall).

'As above so below' is some sort of cosmic law. What happens on a cosmic level also happens on a miniscule level. (Mandelstam).

What happens to the Gods also happens here on earth.

renownedwolf
Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 06:06 PM
Ocko. Do you have any links to this 35ft human? I have read things about 9ft giants but never that big.

Scario
Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 08:06 PM
KveldulfR, what page in Runelore? I remember reading about the threes, but that part wasn't implying they were all one god. Odin usually worked with/traveled with/did everything with others, usually in a party of three.

Ocko
Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 08:27 PM
The link to the giants

Www.levashov.name/english/supise-eng.html

If you don't understand russian click on british flag.

Click on curiosities and scroll down to giants

N. Levashov is an accredited physicist, member of several prestigious academic societies. His thoughts are unusual but he definetely is not a crackpot.


Scroll down to the giants