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KveldulfR
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 11:29 AM
In his book Runelore, Flowers (Thorsson), gives an account of Odin's deeds from hanging on the World Tree Yggdrasil to retrieving the Poetic Mead. The whole chapter is fascinating and I recommend it to everyone. However, in an earlier chapter, he explains Ragnarok as a personal transformation process which I have no problem with but he goes on to say the Loki, Heimdall, Bragi and several other gods are actually aspects of Odin and not other gods at all.

This troubled me and I was wondering if anyone had read this book or otherwise had an opinion to share on this concept.

Thanks.

-KveldulfR

Rothhammer
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 05:16 PM
I can see how someone could misinterpret things and come to that conclusion.

Odin has so many outstanding qualities about him. Although he obviously excels over most in some areas, he's bound to have something in common with the other Gods simply in that his dominion over things is so broad. In more comical terms, but meaning no disrespect, Odin's like superman. He does all sorts of things. The other Gods are more like the Hulk, Aqua man, or the Flash in that they have a more honed in area of expertise.

Having something in common doesn't make them one in the same. Take weightlifters for example. Compare, at any point in time, the top body builder and top power lifter of the same period. Both lift weights, but neither can do what the other does to the same level. A body builder has that image of a Greek or Roman statue, and more than likely larger and with stage presence, where as the power lifter may not be as aesthetically pleasing, but is notably stronger.

Thorsson's views are partly based on literature, part on personal beliefs, and part on the fact that he is first, and foremost, a scholar.

Scholars sometimes have a tendency to try and break things down too much. They try to see our religion, as well as that of others, as the way some people choose to explain things around them, as opposed to what we know to be the way things really are. They view our religion as if we're a confused lot trying to make sense of a crazy world, and that the end result is more of an expression of what's going on inside our heads. They come to conclusions that when read by true believes make those of our faith wonder how they can be so smart and stupid at the same time.

Bearkinder
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 05:29 PM
The problem also, is that a good amount, maybe most of the actual knowledge of heathenry has been destroyed, so what we have to study and draw conclusions from, is very lacking.

I do, however get real tired of "scholars" trying to make several gods into one god because that god shares traits with others. You cna take a group of people, and they will have many overlapping attributes and abilities, often several of those attributes and abilities will be equal to others. That doesn't mean they are all the same person.

IMO such thinking is an attempt to turn a polytheistic way of thought into a monotheistic way of thought.

velvet
Friday, January 13th, 2012, 05:53 PM
IMO such thinking is an attempt to turn a polytheistic way of thought into a monotheistic way of thought.

Yes, indeed. An attempt by "scholars" ever since the invention of Abrahamic, "mono"-theist religions to "prove" that polytheism really is a degeneration and that all once sprang from one source. Also, at the same time, they attempt to turn Paganism into a "proper" (Abrahamic) religion, failing to see that the corruption really is the Abrahamic religion including both the claim of monotheism and what a "religion" should be like.

Unfortunately, even heathen scholars like Thorsson take on this claim (although he doesnt go as far as others, like the authors of the "Asatru Edda", which is essentially christianity with heathen names; a thouroughly disgusting "work"), for some reason believing that they will only ever get accepted when they somehow manage to twist Paganism so long until it fits into the limited box of "monotheistic religion".

Havent read "Runelore" yet, only the other two rune books "A Handbook of Rune Magic" and the "Runecaster's Handbook", so cant say much of the theories he brings forth in that book.

Thorwald
Sunday, January 15th, 2012, 02:36 PM
but he goes on to say the Loki, Heimdall, Bragi and several other gods are actually aspects of Odin and not other gods at all.


I don't think the other gods are aspects of Odin. However, it's possible some of these "gods" are actually not gods at all but Norse literary invention of the Skalds. There is no evidence Loki is known outside of Scandinavia, and there is no evidence he had a cult even in Scandinavia.

Ocko
Sunday, January 15th, 2012, 06:59 PM
Loki is kown as Agni in the indian lore.

In the russian veda Odin (varun) was a king in Velikiy Uztuk, but called in the past Asgard. It was located at the river dwina, where the two arms come together. He was travelling a lot and had two brothers Weh and Velis. Fiora was the name of his wife.

Odin was also known as Trajan (might be his origin from Troja came from this), he was also known as Nikolay (Nikolaus = Santa Klaus) etc.

At the end of his life he moved to the Island Fuenen in the baltic sea. then into Denmark and sired there a new kingfamily, the Sveta (Sweden, Svea). Sveta means white in russian.

And so on.

The indians see him as Vishnu, with his two brothers the highest authority in their Pantheon of Gods.


The christian corrupted Odin and his two brothers into the trinity, as the 3 aspects of the one God. They had to do that to keep their monotheism and št the same time satisfy the new 'Converts'.

There is no logic in that there is only one God, existing beyond time and space and is eternal.

The same can be said about many Gods who exist beyond time and space and are eternal.