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View Full Version : Pseudo-Mongoloid/Mongoloid Strain in Scandinavia



Northern Paladin
Wednesday, July 7th, 2004, 10:26 PM
There seems to be an evident Mongoloid Strain in Scandonavia though it isn't typical of the Skandonaivian Phenotype it "Pops Up" every once inawhile and their are invididuals who seem Suprisingly Mongoloid in Appearance, that if you take away their light pigmentation they would be just as such.


Below is a Swede with a Particularly strong "Pseudo-Mongoloid/Mongoloid" Strain. Suprisingly her daughter is Phenotypically Perfectly Nordic.

Scoob
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:10 AM
There seems to be an evident Mongoloid Strain in Scandonavia though it isn't typical of the Skandonaivian Phenotype it "Pops Up" every once inawhile and their are invididuals who seem Suprisingly Mongoloid in Appearance, that if you take away their light pigmentation they would be just as such.


Below is a Swede with a Particularly strong "Pseudo-Mongoloid/Mongoloid" Strain. Suprisingly her daughter is Phenotypically Perfectly Nordic. Are these people Baltic? The daughter looks like some Lithuanians I've seen.

Mongolish phenotype could be Ladogan - old strain from Arctic peoples. I've seen Baltics that look like the mother, from Estonia but it's common in NE Europe as a minority type, I think.

morfrain_encilgar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:14 AM
Are these people Baltic? The daughter looks like some Lithuanians I've seen.

Mongolish phenotype could be Ladogan - old strain from Arctic peoples. I've seen Baltics that look like the mother, from Estonia but it's common in NE Europe as a minority type, I think.

Lapps are part of the Alpine lineage, and Osteuropids are Alpine with Nordic lineages. So are Borreby but with a more robust Nordic component.

Northern Paladin
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:15 AM
Are these people Baltic? The daughter looks like some Lithuanians I've seen.

From what I know they are "Native" Swedes. From South Eastern Sweden. So I guess they could be considered "Baltic". Indeed the Entire whole of Sweden is more or less "Baltic" influenced.

I think that's the only major difference Between Skandos and those of the British Isles.


Lapps are part of the Alpine lineage, and Osteuropids are Alpine with Nordic lineages. So are Borreby but with a more robust Nordic component.

So Alpines considered "Mongoloid" in some of their "Traits"?

Scoob
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:34 AM
From what I know they are "Native" Swedes. From South Eastern Sweden. So I guess they could be considered "Baltic". Indeed the Entire whole of Sweden is more or less "Baltic" influenced.

I think that's the only major difference Between Skandos and those of the British Isles.

So Alpines considered "Mongoloid" in some of their "Traits"? All UP types in Europe are Mongoloid-like in some ways. Maybe that's just a general Eurasian look before more gracile people from NE Africa came in during the Neolithic.

morfrain_encilgar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:35 AM
So Alpines considered "Mongoloid" in some of their "Traits"?

No, Alpines aren't partly mongoloid although that is what some sources suggest. The Lapps just look mongoloid.

morfrain_encilgar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:40 AM
All UP types in Europe are Mongoloid-like in some ways. Maybe that's just a general Eurasian look before more gracile people from NE Africa came in during the Neolithic.

Yes, thats right. It's why many pre-mongoloid Japanese had a Nordic-like appearence.

Scoob
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:48 AM
Yes, thats right. It's why many pre-mongoloid Japanese had a Nordic-like appearence. Nordic?? All reconstructions I've seen of Jomon type Japanese (which are connected to modern Ainu supposedly) is definitely quite un-Nordic, unless by "Nordic" you mean UP Euro types, not including gracile Nordics, Atlantids, Meds, Dinarids, Indids etc.

morfrain_encilgar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Nordic?? All reconstructions I've seen of Jomon type Japanese (which are connected to modern Ainu supposedly) is definitely quite un-Nordic, unless by "Nordic" you mean UP Euro types, not including gracile Nordics, Atlantids, Meds, Dinarids, Indids etc.

Yes, I did mean an Upper Paleolithic type like the one which was ancestral to later Nordics in Europe.

The Blond Beast
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 02:28 AM
Nordic?? All reconstructions I've seen of Jomon type Japanese (which are connected to modern Ainu supposedly) is definitely quite un-Nordic, unless by "Nordic" you mean UP Euro types, not including gracile Nordics, Atlantids, Meds, Dinarids, Indids etc.

He must be referring to the putative Caucasoid origins of the Ainu.

Awar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 02:38 AM
The woman isn't a good example of pseudo mongoloid IMO.
The daughter seems to be a Faelid/Nordid mix.

Telperion
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 02:52 AM
Is there any evidence to support the hypothesis (which I've read somewhere) that there tends to be a selection for Mongoloid-like traits in very cold arctic/sub-arctic climates?

Anecdotally, there does seem to be a correlation, in so far as Alpine types originated in a montane environment, and northern Scandinavia and northern Russia/Karelia have a very harsh climate. And, the Mongols themselves (in so far as they are the archetypal mongoloid people) live in quite a cold, harsh environment, where presumably they originated. If such traits tend to be selected for in such a climate, this could help to explain why one can find pseudo-mongoloid traits in Europeans who lack any demonstrable mongoloid ancestry.

morfrain_encilgar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 04:34 AM
Is there any evidence to support the hypothesis (which I've read somewhere) that there tends to be a selection for Mongoloid-like traits in very cold arctic/sub-arctic climates?

Yes, there is, but Brace has questioned this evidence. The big problem here, in my opinion, is with the mongoloid features of Capoids. Capoids originated in East Africa, based on both paternal and maternal lineages. This doesn't seem to suggest a cold climate was responsible.

I suspect that Alpines including the Lapps, Capoids, and Asian Mongoloids (which don't form one race like Caucasoids do), all show admixture into modern types, that comes from a Middle Paleolithic lineage which I don't think anyone else has recognised.

Northern Paladin
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 05:22 AM
I suspect that Alpines including the Lapps, Capoids, and Asian Mongoloids (which don't form one race like Caucasoids do), all show admixture into modern types, that comes from a Middle Paleolithic lineage which I don't think anyone else has recognised.

So Alpines,Lapps,Asian Mongoloids aren't Modern?

It's Generally excepted all people can from an East African Origin 200,000 years ago.

The way I see it Alpines,Lapps, and Asian Mongoloids were just those who were "Trapped" and "Isolated" in the Extremely cold regions.

As for Capoids with "Mongoloid" Features. I think their Mongoloid "Features" were evolved for a different purpose. Perhaps to shield their eyes from sun glare and sand. Later these features were selected for based on the Ice Age Environmental Factors, Severe Cold, Glare from Ice/Snow, Blizzard Conditions.

Looking at a Capoid there are obvious differences between them and Mongoloids. Though they have "Slanted" Eyes. They don't tend to have Thick Oribular fat depoists or the "Epicanthal Folds" That are so typical of Mongoloids. They also lack the fat depoists on their face that give Mongoloids the "Chubby" Face look.
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=88062#post88062

It seems that Capoids were the "Old Race" who had the "Root" Features for Mongolism. In the past these characteristics might have been quite widespread but were "Weeded" out in Temperate Climate Dwelling Caucasoids and now remain in their "Evolved" form in Modern Mongoloid/Mongoloid Like Peoples.

Telperion
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 05:46 AM
I suspect that Alpines including the Lapps, Capoids, and Asian Mongoloids (which don't form one race like Caucasoids do), all show admixture into modern types, that comes from a Middle Paleolithic lineage which I don't think anyone else has recognised.


It seems that Capoids were the "Old Race" who had the "Root" Features for Mongolism. In the past these characteristics might have been quite widespread but were "Weeded" out in Temperate Climate Dwelling Caucasoids and now remain in their "Evolved" form in Modern Mongoloid/Mongoloid Like Peoples.

What's the genetic evidence on the relationship between Capoids and these other peoples? Can we say definitively Capoids are a root race, or are they a case of homology (developing similar features to deal with similar challenges, e.g. glare/winds, despite lack of a close biological relationship)?

morfrain_encilgar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 03:27 PM
So Alpines,Lapps,Asian Mongoloids aren't Modern?

Of course they are obviously modern, but there would have been different admixture in different types of modern, from pre-moderns.


It's Generally excepted all people can from an East African Origin 200,000 years ago.

Yes, but there's good physical evidence - and even genetic evidence from an early Australoid - for such admixture.


As for Capoids with "Mongoloid" Features. I think their Mongoloid "Features" were evolved for a different purpose. Perhaps to shield their eyes from sun glare and sand. Later these features were selected for based on the Ice Age Environmental Factors, Severe Cold, Glare from Ice/Snow, Blizzard Conditions.

This mignt be true, but East Africa wasn't a desert.


It seems that Capoids were the "Old Race" who had the "Root" Features for Mongolism.

I'm suggesting the "old race" was not yet modern, and with it as being partly ancestral, only to the moderns with such racial features.

morfrain_encilgar
Thursday, July 8th, 2004, 03:28 PM
What's the genetic evidence on the relationship between Capoids and these other peoples? Can we say definitively Capoids are a root race, or are they a case of homology (developing similar features to deal with similar challenges, e.g. glare/winds, despite lack of a close biological relationship)?

The Capoids seem to be the first surviving lineage of moderns to seperate from other moderns.