View Full Version : Red-Haired Genes From Neanderthals?

Monday, July 15th, 2002, 09:52 PM
Here is an old, but interesting story. The famous American anthropologist Carleton S. Coon argued that some Europeans descend from the Neanderthals, could this help prove it?

Redheads 'are Neanderthal'.

RED hair may be the genetic legacy of Neanderthals, scientists believe. Researchers at the John Radcliffe Institute of Molecular Medicine in Oxford say that the so-called "ginger gene" which gives people red hair, fair skin and freckles could be up to 100,000 years old.

They claim that their discovery points to the gene having originated in Neanderthal man who lived in Europe for 200,000 years before Homo Sapien settlers, the ancestors of modern man, arrived from Africa about 40,000 years ago.

Rosalind Harding, the research team leader, said: "The gene is certainly older than 50,000 years and it could be as old as 100,000 years. "An explanation is that it comes from Neanderthals." It is estimated that at least 10 per cent of Scots have red hair and a further 40 per cent carry the gene responsible, which could account for their once fearsome reputation as fighters. Neanderthals have been characterised as migrant hunters and violent cannibals who probably ate most of their meat raw. They were taller and stockier than Homo Sapiens, but with shorter limbs, bigger faces and noses, receding chins and low foreheads.

The two species overlapped for a period of time and the Oxford research appears to suggests that they must have successfully interbred for the "ginger gene" to survive. Neanderthals became extinct about 28,000 years ago, the last dying out in southern Spain and southwest France.

© Times Newspapers Ltd, 2001.

Source: THE TIMES UK 16/04/2001

Scots may be directly descended from Neanderthal man.

By Tom Peterkin.

FROM William Wallace to the goalposts at Wembley, Scots have a fearsome reputation for causing trouble.

Now, a team of scientists may have discovered the explanation-we inherited Neanderthal genes.

Experts in evolution from Oxford say the key lies in the red hair for which Celts are famous.

The team studied the origins of the gene which causes red hair and discovered it is older than the first Homo Sapien settlers to come to Europe from Africa around 30,000 years ago.

This strongly suggests the gene must have been present in Neanderthal man, who was living in Europe long before the arrival of Homo Sapiens. The Oxford team says this points to interbreeding between Neanderthals and the new settlers, an idea which has previously been dismissed. It was originally believed that Homo Sapiens, because they were more sophisticated, simply drove out the Neanderthals to the point where they became extinct. The conclusion the team draws is that the red hair, freckles and pale skin which characterise Scots are most likely the genetic legacy of a long-dead species, known for being hairy and having prominent brows and receding foreheads. Around 10% of Scots are redheads, while an additional 40% of the population with other hair colourings carry the gene responsible for red hair.

Dr Rosalind Harding, of the Institute of Molecular Medicine at the John Radcliffe Hospital, in Oxford, calculated the age of the ginger version of the gene, known as the melanocortin 1 receptor (MC1R), by using a complex model that looked at its mutation rate.

She found that the gene was present 100,000 years ago-at least 70,000 years before Homo Sapiens' migration into Europe from Africa. Harding maintains that the gene could not have originated in the sweltering heat of Africa, because natural selection would not have allowed the survival of a trait that predisposes humans to skin cancer.

Studies have revealed that carriers of the gene are five times more sensitive to ultraviolet light than others and therefore far more likely to contract skin cancer. Given that the gene is so much older than the earliest anthropological records of Stone Age Homo Sapiens, who were responsible for the spectacular cave paintings produced around 30,000 years ago, Harding believes that MC1R must have originated in the Neanderthals.

"The gene is certainly older than 50,000 years and it could be as old as 100,000 years," she said. "An explanation is that it comes from the Neanderthals-the other people that were here before modern man came out of Africa."

Harding believes that the prevalence of the ginger gene in so many of today's population provides evidence that early Homo sapiens bred with the Neanderthals and that many of today's humans are descended from unions between the two species.

So does that mean it is possible that Scottish redheads are directly descended from the Neanderthals? "It seems to be the logical conclusion to what I am saying," said Harding. "But I don't know if people are going to like me for saying that."

© The Scotsman Publications Ltd.

Source: SCOTLAND ON SUNDAY 15/04/2001

http://www.aulis.com/images/art_orignis1.gif http://www.aulis.com/images/art_orignis2.gif

Tuesday, July 16th, 2002, 01:39 AM
Well that is very interesting. No one can really say for sure, but perhaps the ancestor of modern Euros somehow interbreeded with a local population of Neanderthals. That is possible I guess.
Logic deducts that people with 'red' hair, also having very fair skin look the furthest from Africans, therefore being the most evolved from that path. If that is true there ancestors must have arrived in Europe early, and well within the Ice Age. A further study should be done, perhaps a DNA taken from Neanderthal and match with a person with this red hair gene. Very possible indeed.

Oswald Mosley
Wednesday, July 17th, 2002, 08:22 PM
I agree with the supposition that Neanderthals may indeed have been the 'original' Europeans, but there are strong arguments for the Basques having this honour, as their language is unrelated to any other. Basques are generally dark.
My own feeling is that the Basques came to northern Spain/southwest France from much further south, possibly present day Morocco, hence their linguistic isolation.

Thursday, July 18th, 2002, 01:31 PM
I read the article, and the basic line was that Homosapiens are from AFRICA.
Now this theory is a very recent one and I'm just not willing to believe it.

I don't know how the Earth surfacce was 30.000 years ago. Was ther one Land-block, so that they could simply wlk to england and central Europe?

why this "centralized" theory, that ALL MAN evolves from a certain region.

Its a bit hard to believe, that Aboregenies, Polynesians ect. are all from Africa.
I find this time period way to short for evolution and creation of the different races.

Oswald Mosley
Thursday, July 18th, 2002, 10:51 PM
I certainly don't believe in the 'out of Africa' theory. Just more bullshit from intellectual Jews who want us to love the niggers!

There are many critics of the 'out of Africa' theory; just search on the internet.

Friday, July 19th, 2002, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Oswald Mosley
I certainly don't believe in the 'out of Africa' theory. Just more bullshit from intellectual Jews who want us to love the niggers!

Well I don't see how it is like that. If you look at the theory, it is stating that Africans are less evovled because they did
not migrate, they stayed in that shithole. Our ancestors evovled beautifully into Aryans and arived in the wonderful land known as Europa. Infact I have a side 'theory':

If infact this "Outta Africa" thing is true then this must also be a factor... Our ancestors split from a branch, but somewhere their Ancestors made the choice not to pick up and move to find a better place. The stayed in the same regions (relativly) and probably hunted animals for 1000s of years traveling around and around...going nowhere... and this is apparent from the lack of any civilization or technology!


Their ancestors were lazy idiots who stayed in the hellhole.
Our ancestor were smarter and found something better.
Evidence is... look at the civilizations Aryans made, and even some non-aryans did a whole lot better than Africans. LIFE IS STILL SHITY THERE. AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER THEY ARE FINALLY FLEEING AFRICA, refugees come by the thousands to white countries and bring their bankrupt culture with them.

Friday, February 7th, 2003, 06:07 AM
To add to this arguement, I doubt that red-heads descend from Neanderthals in light of new evidence. Besides that, if redheads descended from Neanderthals, they would probably also have lower forehead and more residual jaws, but they don't.

Read this link:

Pics of redheads

Sigrun Christianson
Monday, April 21st, 2003, 04:20 PM
I am not a Neaderthal, thank you.


Monday, April 21st, 2003, 04:43 PM
:rolleyes: lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll U ARE

Monday, April 21st, 2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Zoe
I am not a Neaderthal, thank you.


But you might be part Neaderthal.....!

Sigrun Christianson
Monday, April 21st, 2003, 04:51 PM
Am not! Am not! Am not! Am not infinity!


Thursday, April 24th, 2003, 09:06 PM
Neanderthals might have been more evolued than us, they might have transmitted some knowledge to our ancestors. Redhair gene may come from them.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, February 3rd, 2004, 08:31 AM
There are some problems here. I have no doubt that the statistics given for the Scottish population or the genetic clock for red hair are accurate. The problem is this gene could have evolved in Africa. In fact many Negros have red undercurrents in their hair. The reason this is possible is that the genes for hair are not one, they are many. This is a polygenetic system. Our individual hair color is the sum of the genes involved. Each gene could be considered just a position on the chromosome and each gene has many alleles or alternates. Even with a few genes, because there are so many alleles, the color combinations are staggering.

Coon says Irish Cro-Magnon types had redish hair and freckles. Coon also says Cro-Magnons were hybrids of Neanderthals and Med.-type whites. This was in Races of Europe.

My personal observation is that the reddish UP types are very strong people. Borreby types, with red hair and freckles, seem to excell in weight rooms and at field sports. These extreme types do not look at all Nordic. They may be descended, in part, from Neanderthals but, I think, pinpointing red hair and associating it exclusively with Neanderthals is wrong. I have seen Arabs with red hair and some Chinese. In fact Chinese label foreigners as "red hairs" and not just Whites. When Chinese want to talk bad about Japanese, they call them red hairs also.