PDA

View Full Version : The Armanen Runes and Wuotan's Poem



Gugnir
Wednesday, April 6th, 2011, 02:42 AM
Hey. So I've been thinking about the Runes, and I have to say I'm leaning towards the Armanen row. The main reason is the fact that the 24 Runes of the Elder Futhark do not correlate to the 18 Runes described in the Havamal, whereas the Armanen do. Perhaps a pro-Elder person here would care to give his or her take on why there are 18 Runes in Wotan's poem, but 24 actual Elder staves. And before someone says "There are 18 mysteries, or spells, not specific staves," I must quote:


144) Runes thou wilt find, and explained characters, very large characters, very potent characters, which the great speaker depicted, and the high powers formed, and the powers' prince graved:

Or:


146) Knowest thou how to grave them? Knowest thou how to expound them? Knowest thou how to depict them? Knowest thou how to prove them? Knowest thou how to pray? Knowest thou how to offer? Knowest thou how to send? Knowest thou how to consume?

Especially there "grave" and "depict." I think it's pretty clear in the Rune poem that the Runes are depicted in staves. Another example:


159) For the twelfth I know, if on a tree I see a corpse swinging from a halter, I can so grave and in runes depict, that the man shall walk, and with me converse.

So that's what I'm curious about here. Any thoughts? :)

Thanks in advance!

-Gugnir

Ocko
Wednesday, April 6th, 2011, 04:15 AM
They all work, therefore I think there is not one right and the others wrong.

What stands behind the runes is true. A lot depends on your understanding and personal power. Those are the things which make the runes work.

The actual sign is lesser effectiv.

Try to get personal power, that seems to be the most important ingredient. With personal power you can work any system as the cosmos will respond to you. It actually goes out of its way to comply with your wishes, whether you express them through runes or otherwisely.

It is a language you can converse with the universe and communicate your wishes, whether they will be granted depends entirely on you.

Gugnir
Thursday, April 7th, 2011, 12:26 AM
True enough, however, I think the sign does matter, because we see similarities throughout all Rune sets. If the stave didn't matter, any random shape could be construed as a Rune. Of the choices, it seems like List's Armanen Futhork is best, at least to me, because of its "consolidation of power," let's say. It lines up directly with the 18 Runes in the Poem, so even if they're not necessarily supposed to correlate directly, it still provides less to deal with and more differences between each Rune, which I like.

I am now considering also the possibility that the 18 "Runes" described in Wotan's poem are not supposed to be a 1:1 correlation with the staves, but a description of the powers of the Runes as a whole - that is, the staves, songs, and Runes/mysteries; what this magickal system can do, which would mean the Armanen does not have an advantage. Your post inspired me to consider this, and looking at it from that viewpoint is making a bit more sense to me than anything I've considered so far. Not that I'm sure, but it's something for me to think about (and maybe get some opinions on here?).

-Gugnir

Ocko
Friday, April 8th, 2011, 01:24 AM
there are different Rune alphabeths around. I believe the oldest one found is with 25 letters

That would mean the norse runes, described in the Edda is a shortened version. whether the shortening is a decline or an empowerment might be in the eye of the beholder.

The user of the Runes is more important than which Runes are used.

Lyfing
Saturday, August 6th, 2011, 02:53 AM
Yeah,

That is pretty cool, huh..??

Ever read Sigrdrífumál..??

Odin carves stuff on 24 Things..??

..any thoughts..??

Later,
-Lyfing