PDA

View Full Version : Is an Anglo-Saxon Someone with English AND German ancestry?



Andrew man
Friday, March 25th, 2011, 12:52 PM
Now there has been something that I'm not too sure on, and it's something I should really know by now... Is an Anglo-Saxon someone with English AND German ancestry? I know that the tribes that overthrew Roman rule in England were Goth Saxons, and they went forth creating what we know has the English (Anglos). Therefore making the Anglo-Saxon, correct? If I'm wrong someone kick me lol Now I'm half English, and 1/4th German and 1/4 Norwegian, but i talk with great words and have maturness for my age and manners, which I would say is my English side (not to put Germans down) but I've always felt like I have a strong German spirit, as well as Norwegian. Anyways, thank you all!

Ragnar Lodbrok
Friday, March 25th, 2011, 01:12 PM
Now there has been something that I'm not too sure on, and it's something I should really know by now... Is an Anglo-Saxon someone with English AND German ancestry? I know that the tribes that overthrew Roman rule in England were Goth Saxons, and they went forth creating what we know has the English (Anglos). Therefore making the Anglo-Saxon, correct? If I'm wrong someone kick me lol Now I'm half English, and 1/4th German and 1/4 Norwegian, but i talk with great words and have maturness for my age and manners, which I would say is my English side (not to put Germans down) but I've always felt like I have a strong German spirit, as well as Norwegian. Anyways, thank you all!

It just means someone with english ancestry, the angles and saxons were germanic tribes but that doesn't make one who is anglo-saxon a "german" person.

Andrew man
Friday, March 25th, 2011, 01:14 PM
It just means someone with english ancestry, the angles and saxons were germanic tribes but that doesn't make one who is anglo-saxon a "german" person.

So the Term Anglo-Saxon simply means English? Because I know OF Saxony in Germany, not how TO spell it German lol just something that confussed me for a moment lol

Sybren
Friday, March 25th, 2011, 02:10 PM
The strict meaning of the term Anglo-Saxon refers to the Germanic tribes from northern/northwestern Germany and northeast Holland, the Angles and the Saxons. These tribes, together with the Jutes from Denmark and the Frisians from... Frisia invaded eastern England around the 5th century AD.

It is believed most English people living in eastern England are descendants of these Germanic tribes. Others say the modern English are more likely to be a mixture of the Germanic tribes and the native Celtic tribes of England.

Anyway, nowadays the term Anglo-Saxon is much more loosely used and generally means a person from northwestern European descend/a white person.

I think the term is pretty useless right now, especially in America. Because a lot of people claiming it, don't even know for sure they are descendants of the actual Angles and Saxons. They probably are a mixture of many other tribes, some not even Germanic.

Edit: Anglo-Saxon also is a sub-racial type which is a Bruenn/Nordid mixture. This racial type is seen as typically (south-east) English looking. It is possible the Bruenn component comes from the indigenous peoples of Britain and the Nordid component was introduced by the Anglo-Saxon tribes (and later the Norman and Vikings perhaps). The last is speculation from myself though, don't take it as fact ;)

Conrad
Friday, March 25th, 2011, 05:06 PM
The Saxons were a confederation of North German Tribes. After the removal of the Roman Army ( mainly German by that time ) from Britain and the debasement of the Celtic tribes by Christianity ( to be repeated by the English in their turn leading to the Vikking invasions ) the Saxons invited themselves in not as immigrants but as founders of a new civilisation. One of the tribes of the confederation had preserved its original name of the Engel ( not angel! ) folk. They settled: North of the Humber ( Northumbria ), the Borderlands with the welch - Germanic Mark, Marches ( Mercia ) and of course East Anglia. All these Kingdoms were destroyed by the Danes ( like the Franks, arch enemies ). The Saxons who had preserved the confederation name ( the funny -sex ending ) fought back and reconquered Saxon land. However to discuise this fact from the proud Mercians and Northumbrians they called the new state so formed Engeland - England. A similar event occured when the Angles of Lowland Scoctland were united to England the resulting sate being Britain!
Nowdays the term Anglo Saxon is useful to distingish the Saxons of the UK (who under went the trauma of West Frankish ( Norman ) conquest from Continental Saxons.

copyright Conrad

Uberman
Saturday, March 26th, 2011, 05:08 AM
Wow, that was a really good explanation, Conrad.

I think most Americans, myself included, consider themselves to be Anglo-Saxon if they are decended from the original founders of our country, as they considered themselves to be Anglo-Saxons.
I've always said I'm Anglo-Saxon because two of my ancestors signed the Declaration of Independance. But because I have a lot of English ancestry, I, like most English, probably also have some Celtic, Dutch, and Frankish in me. I just can't trace my ancestry back far enough to know for sure, so I just say Anglo-Saxon.

Germaniathane
Saturday, March 18th, 2017, 08:38 PM
Now there has been something that I'm not too sure on, and it's something I should really know by now... Is an Anglo-Saxon someone with English AND German ancestry? I know that the tribes that overthrew Roman rule in England were Goth Saxons, and they went forth creating what we know has the English (Anglos). Therefore making the Anglo-Saxon, correct? If I'm wrong someone kick me lol Now I'm half English, and 1/4th German and 1/4 Norwegian, but i talk with great words and have maturness for my age and manners, which I would say is my English side (not to put Germans down) but I've always felt like I have a strong German spirit, as well as Norwegian. Anyways, thank you all!

The English are Anglo-Saxons! Not Germans. Anglo-Saxons means English Saxons or Saxons who went to live in England or Angle-land. The very name Anglo-Saxons was made to distinguished the Insular Saxons from the continental Saxons. There is even a recognized phenotype linked to Anglo-Saxons.

Pure Wisdom
Thursday, April 19th, 2018, 01:03 AM
Anglo - Saxons were basically Northern Germans. For example there is a Northern German dialect that today is almost extinct, that sounds very similar to Old English. Lower Saxony is a region in Northern Germany where the tribe of the Saxons originated from. The Anglo that are referred as Angeln in Germany, came from another part of North Germany called Schleswig- Holstein. Some of the Anglo- Saxons came from modern day Denmark. As far as I know the birth place of all Germanic tribes is Skandinavia.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, April 22nd, 2018, 04:37 AM
English other than Angles--who are neither-yet-both German and Danish (entirely relocated to Britain), have not just German (Saxon), but equally Danish (Jute and Dane) and minor Dutch (Frisian), Norwegian and Swedish--in that order of importance and magnitude. I don't count Normans and their Frankish descendants to be a distinct people, unless one views them as a class of masters over which we have had to toil. If the relationship applies to the Old World, I don't see why it doesn't continue itself between England and New England in the same fashion of straddling homelands.

Aelfgar
Sunday, April 22nd, 2018, 04:15 PM
Anglo - Saxons were basically Northern Germans. For example there is a Northern German dialect that today is almost extinct, that sounds very similar to Old English. Lower Saxony is a region in Northern Germany where the tribe of the Saxons originated from. The Anglo that are referred as Angeln in Germany, came from another part of North Germany called Schleswig- Holstein. Some of the Anglo- Saxons came from modern day Denmark. As far as I know the birth place of all Germanic tribes is Skandinavia.Yep. A modern Anglo-Saxon would be anyone with ancestry from those areas.

The Anglo-Saxons who came to Britain mixed with the lowland Britons to become the English of 1066.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, April 22nd, 2018, 05:39 PM
Except for the Angles, everyone else still has a homeland in old Germania.

Mööv
Sunday, April 22nd, 2018, 07:44 PM
Except for the Angles, everyone else still has a homeland in old Germania.

I wasn't aware that Angeln sank into the Baltic sea. :)

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, April 22nd, 2018, 10:14 PM
Interesting how you inadvertently draw a comparison to what's been happening in Friesland.

There's no comparable social identity in Angeln distinct from Jutland and Saxony, unlike for Friesland. Basically, the Danevirke partitions what used to be the homeland of the Angles, which happened later when Watling Street divided England between Denmark and Wessex. Hedeby would have been the capital of the Angles, but since the whole of the Angles left (according to Bede) it's been relegated to a trader outpost between Jutland and Saxony, replaced since by Schleswig, between Denmark and Germany. I'm not the one who first stated that the Angles entirely removed to Britain; I merely agree with the father of English history, who is responsible for what we know of the tribal origins of England.

Mööv
Monday, April 23rd, 2018, 01:06 AM
but since the whole of the Angles left

Hardly. It would be very stupid to just pack up all of your people and try to cross the sea. One bad storm and you get extinct.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Monday, April 23rd, 2018, 02:20 AM
All of the sources agree that this was a lengthy process, but it's definitely obvious that not all the Saxons left and it's not entirely clear what happened to the Jutes, but assimilation is likely, whereas the Frisians have lived on the edge forever. Pray tell, what body politic representing the Angles remained in Schleswig bearing the name and function purporting to be nationhood of the Angles? Namely, was/is there anything of substance, like in England? Don't you know, that I wish there were? If there were, maybe your German compatriots would be less Anglophobic. Maybe you think you have a source disagreeing with the Venerable Bede.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/angles-saxons-and-jutes

According to book 2 of Bede's Ecclesiastical History, migration across the channel had depopulated Angeln, a claim that has found some archaeological support. Archaeological evidence indicates that by the sixth century, the large Continental cremation cemeteries were no longer in use, and settlement activity disappeared between the fifth and eighth centuries. A few sixth- and seventh-century hoards, stray finds, and burials, however, argue against Bede's claim of total abandonment. Significant language replacement indicates repopulation in Angeln after the eighth century.

Furthermore, how do you think the Danevirke could be built in the middle of a country of all the same people, rather than between peoples? Why would the wall between Saxon and Jute cut right through the Angles' capital, if the Angles were still their own entity in the area? Maybe the last remnants lived in Angeln, but they were hardly sovereign in any sense, not even to any degree experienced by the Frisians. Care to offer evidence backing up your position? You know, the Danish Mark was established in the heather wastelands south of Jutland and north of Skaaneland, opposite the Geats. These were natural boundaries. Had folks still been living there, it would be hard to maintain different sets of populations.