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dark mind
Tuesday, March 8th, 2011, 07:15 PM
though I consider myself a Christian I purposely post in the general section:

to begin with, personally I believe in the doctrine of apokatastasis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation), an ancient Christian belief, I will not go further into detail at this point.

I have several questions:

I.) What was the ancient Nordic belief about the afterlife? My knowledge is only little, as far as I know Hel (hell) - the netherworld was part of the earth, earth was expected to be destroyed at Ragnaräk alongside with the ressurection of the dead, the last battle, the annihilation of evil and the end of the whole previous world.

- Is this correct, what was exactly the ancient Nordic believe about the afterlife, especially after Ragnarök?

- was eternal damnation as taught by the Roman Catholic Church and most Protestant denominations nowadays ever a part of pre-Christian Nordic belief?

II.) if you believe in an afterlife, do you believe in 'eternal damnation'; what do you believe will happen to members of other races, especially Jews and negroes?

III.) - for the Christians among us, do you share the belief in the doctrine of apokatastasis or do you cling to the traditional teaching of 'eternal damnation'?

- generally, do you think the idea, that all people that ever existed, exist and will exist, of all races, will be ressurected to eternal life in paradise or however you want to call it is acceptable - of course after severe punishment for evil-doers, possibly for ages?

I'm very interested to hear your opinion, I might add further details in regard to my personal opinion later.

Hersir
Tuesday, March 8th, 2011, 08:26 PM
Half the warriors slain in battle got to Odin's hall, the rest go to Frøya's hall. In Ragnarok, the humans Liv ("Life) and Livtrase (could mean "life defy"?) survive to start the new world.

Some people think that Ragnarok is the death of the old ways. After Ragnarok a more peaceful world would come.

To come to Hel (Die of old age or sickness) was not as bad as the christian Hell. The christians got the name Hell from the old Norwegian Hel/Helheim. Hell in Norwegian is helvete. Old Norwegian: helvíti, from *hel og víti 'punishment'

I dont belive in any afterlife. When we die we return to the natural cycle of the world, our atoms are made of star dust from billions of years ago.

Bjørn the viking: http://vimeo.com/18011143

Fyrgenholt
Tuesday, March 8th, 2011, 09:08 PM
I dont belive in any afterlife. When we die we return to the natural cycle of the world, our atoms are made of star dust from billions of years ago.

This is a sort of afterlife though, is it not? A materialistic process of life, death and rebirth, at the very least. :)

In regards to the OP: what you highlight is essentially what we know of through the Eddas and other Medieval sources, a valuable reference for many and influential to alot of contemporary reconstructionists and their views.

I think the ancient Norse afterlife beliefs where most likely quite diversified and relatively complex, with regional and tribal variations and indeed, individualistic and privitized variations also. We can see from the Eddas alone that perhaps the most complicated of all ideas in the Norse cosmos is that of the afterlife, with it's many realms and halls. I don't think things where as 'rigid' as many people like to think they where.

As for Ragnarok, I believe it highlights a spiritual process of death and rebirth, a 'metaphor' for cleansing. There is no after Ragnarok, as such, not in my opinion anyway. Ragnarok is alike the changing of the seasons (although I am not saying that it is this).

I don't think there was any notion of eternal damnation in the the belief system of the north, atleast not the sort recognisable to us moderners, although some people may have believed something similar to "eternal damnation" and others may not have done. I truly do not know what the man in the pub thought about the world around 1,700 years ago.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what I believe, I'm still searching. I do doubt that anything different would happen to people of different races after death, though.

Oski
Tuesday, March 8th, 2011, 10:01 PM
I don't think there was any notion of eternal damnation in the the belief system of the north, atleast not the sort recognisable to us moderners, although some people may have believed something similar to "eternal damnation" and others may not have done. I truly do not know what the man in the pub thought about the world around 1,700 years ago.


Cattle die,
kinsmen die
the self must also die;
I know one thing
which never dies:
the reputation of each dead man.

Robbensvolk
Tuesday, March 8th, 2011, 10:39 PM
I don't know, but all this about the Jewish god made evey body from abos to eskimos and as long as you believe in him, you get to hang out with all the other people who believe in him, is hilarious in it's absurdity. When, are we, as a people, collectively, going to shed this foreign way of looking at the world?

Ocko
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 02:59 AM
As a shaman I also do necromancy.

Some people want to do something good for someone who died a horrible death or in life accrued some bad 'deeds'

I go into a shaman state and call the person which can either be in the stone-,plant-,animal- or human world.

The souls in trouble are most often in the stone-world, a heavy world, dark energy, no light full of funny beings most would call monsters.

The souls are waiting eagerly. So I bring them down and superimpose their souls on another human. The person which is the proxy changes their behaviour, speech etc. I perform then a cleaning of the chakras with a socalled great spiral, an intense energy cleaning.

The relative then have a short time to talk to the soul through the proxy.

They do not want to stay long in this world; a few minutes and then they want to go back.

after returning they go to a higher world, most need several cleanings and then upgrade to the for humans normal level. They are actually very grateful for that work.

I think what you describe as hell is the level we describe as the world of the stone-people which I think is the same thing what heathens describe as Helheima.

I have been used as the proxy guy and it really feels strange, there is somebody else in the body.

the shaman has to watch that the soul doesn't enter the body but only lays on top, otherwise it gets caught in the body and one has to do some more elaborate things to get it out.

In this upper world at the human level your celestial parents (which are not your blood parents) and give advice. Also in the level above this one your real self, the one which goes through the many incarnations and is not changeable, resides. He/she can give you many advices, answers question and so on. It is just good to feel the energy and get energized by it.

there are also the 6th and 7th realm of the upper world.

embodied Humans (we) live in the middleworld, a peculiar world which I and you know.

Ocko
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 03:04 AM
As shaman I also do necromancy.

Some people want to do something good for someone who died a horrible death or in life accrued some bad 'deeds'

I go into a shaman state and call the person which can either be in the stone-,plant-,animal- or human world.

The souls in trouble are most often in the stone-world, a heavy world, dark energy, no light full of funny beings most would call monsters.

The souls are waiting eagerly. So I bring them down and superimpose their souls on another human. The person which is the proxy changes their behaviour, speech etc. I perform then a cleaning of the chakras with a socalled great spiral, an intense energy cleaning.

The relative then have a short time to talk to the soul through the proxy.

They do not want to stay long in this world a few minutes and then they want to go back.

after returning they go to a higher world, most need several cleanings and then upgrade to the for humans normal level. They are actually very grateful for that work.

I think what you describe as hell is the level we describe as the world of the stone-people which I think is the same thing what heathens describe as Helheima.

I have been used as the proxy guy and it really feels strange, there is somebody else in the body.

the shaman has to watch that the soul doesn't enter the body but only lays on top, otherwise it gets caught in the body and one has to do some more elaborate things to get it out.

In this upper world at the human level your celestial parents (which are not your blood parents) live and give advice to you or answer any question you have. Also in the level above this one your real self, the one which goes through the many incarnations and is not changeable, resides. He/she can give you many advices, answers question and so on. It is just good to feel the energy and get energized by it.

there are also the 6th and 7th realm of the upper world.

Embodied Humans (we) live in the middleworld, a peculiar world which I and you know.