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Seppl
Sunday, September 22nd, 2002, 03:05 AM
We all know Adolf Hitler, who he was and his significance to National Socialists & White Nationalism today. Very little has been written about his Sub-racial origins.
Briefly, Hitler is classed as a "Keltic" type which is common in Central Europe particularly in Southern Germany/ Austria. The "Keltic" type is generally Dark haired, has light & or mixed eye colour, the Skin is usually fair, the head is Mesocephalic to low Brachicephalic C.I. = 83-84,the face is Oval to long oval. The height is relatively Midrange between 175- 185 cm, on the average, however tall people are not uncommon, look at Otto Skorzeny for example. Body form is also mid range moderately heavy to slight build.
Hitler, originated from Nieder Oesterreich, a region of Austria joined to Upper & Lower Bavaria. The two main Subracial types are Alpine & Nordic, are represented as a blend in individuals, pure types of either Subrace is relatively rare!
Hitler had darkbrown hair, Blue-grey eyes, fair skin, an oval face and a moderately heavy build. His height was approx. 177cm and C.I. around 82. We can say that Hitler is pretty much typical in appearance to most Germans from that region. Hope, this gives one a little more knowledge on Hitler's racial origins, there were definately no Jewish or non-european traits in him!!
Servus,:viking

Hellstar
Sunday, September 22nd, 2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Seppl
Hitler is classed as a "Keltic" type which is common in Central Europe particularly in Southern Germany/ Austria. The "Keltic" type is generally Dark haired, has light & or mixed eye colour, the Skin is usually fair, the head is Mesocephalic to low Brachicephalic C.I. = 83-84,

Well what Keltic type are we talking about now? I thought 79-80 in C.I for Kelts was average, can you explain more about this type.

The height is relatively Midrange between 175- 185 cm, on the average
Or lower height (especially in those times....)

The two main Subracial types are Alpine & Nordic,
There is certainly alot more Alpines than Nordics,

are represented as a blend in individuals
I dont fully agree,

pure types of either Subrace is relatively rare
Yes but not impossible, but distinct Alpines are easier to find indeed.

Hitler had darkbrown hair, Blue-grey eyes, fair skin, an oval face and a moderately heavy build. His height was approx. 177cm
He had icy blue eyes and I heard he was 181cm tall?

We can say that Hitler is pretty much typical in appearance to most Germans from that region.
Well his alittle of each, but he has strong traits, his strong look and gazing as well as his bombastic body appeal and straight long Aryan nose. SIEG HEIL.

always interesting posts you write Seppl.

Ross
Monday, September 23rd, 2002, 04:45 PM
I do not agree Hitler was a lower brachycephal. It's obvious he had a long head, and it's possible it was narrow too... thus if there is any photo available which can show he had a rounded nick we can establish a possible Med (Jewish) admixture, and if it's triangulat - Nordic (not "Keltic")

PS. I've heard "Hitler" is a twisted Czech name.

PPS. I know you guys are very pro-Nazi and just to avoid pointless fight I'd like to stress that Jews feel VERY uneasy that Hitler possibly was Jewish :-)

Seppl
Tuesday, September 24th, 2002, 04:32 AM
I refer to Hitler as "Keltic or Keltisch", in the terminology of racial assessment during the time of 3rd Reich. A lot of this info concerning Hitler's racial background has come from unpublished works primarily from Dr. Morell. Hitler's Father had a brachiacephallic head, and Hitler was definately not Doliocephalic, Mesocephalic to Subbrachiacephalic yes.
Even subbrachicephalic heads can have a slightly potruding occipit. There are purer types of Alpines in the region, where Hitler came from but mainly in the isolated areas, not in the towns & cities where a lot of mixing took place hence the Hybrid type like Hitler!
Incedently, the Nazis had developed a nomenclature for racial types including blends or hybrid types. For example for a blond person not necessarily Nordic or Eastbaltic, was classed as "Germanic" i.e. Goering & Admiral Doenitz. I tend to use the terminology and assessment techniques of the 3rd Reich as much research on "Aryan" types including blended types or hybrids!:cool

Ederico
Tuesday, September 24th, 2002, 08:38 PM
So please Seppl clear this out for me, because I have blonde hair would have I been classified as Germanic under 3rd. Reich classification methods?

Ross
Tuesday, September 24th, 2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Nazzjonalist
So please Seppl clear this out for me, because I have blonde hair would have I been classified as Germanic under 3rd. Reich classification methods?

Wannabe German?

He he... Slavs are blonder than Germanics, still they're described as Slavic - of Inner Asiatic origin... :D

Do you know that the original population of Malta (aren't you from there?) is Semitic...

But don't worry - they allowed even Turks and Mongols to fight for them in the SS regiments...

Ederico
Tuesday, September 24th, 2002, 09:21 PM
I do not want to be German because no one can be what he is not. I was just asking a simple question to Seppl to clear our any misunderstandings because he stated this :


For example for a blond person not necessarily Nordic or Eastbaltic, was classed as "Germanic"[/B]

I am not Nordic and neither East Baltic, but I have dark blonde hair so I am probably what Seppl refers to as a blonde person.

I know the history of Malta, and I know that the Population of Malta changed throughout the ages considering the various peoples that settled in Malta mostly considering our history from Europe.

Seppl
Wednesday, September 25th, 2002, 08:54 AM
The term Germanic type applied to the Germans, eventhough other Europeans were also of this type. Although, the Slavs are just as Nordic/Eastbaltic as the Germans, it was purely Geo-politics that determined the place of various Slavic Nations in the eyes of the 3rd Reich e.g. The Slovaks and Croats were given favourable treatment, even their own independent States.
The Czechs had the same rights as the Germans as it was a protectorate. In fact, the SS did racial tests on some Czech Districts and found them to be more Nordic than the Sudetenland Germans!
When looking at the history of the 3rd Reich there were a lot of anomolies and contradictions, one must remember NS was still an evolving ideology and the war had taken it's tole not only on the German population but with the defeat of Germany, it was forced to fail. NS was only an experiment which didn't have time to evolve, given time I believe it would have developed into a more Pan-Aryan ideology. I still believe that NS is the only Political suitable for Aryan peoples!!
Servus,:viking

Ross
Wednesday, September 25th, 2002, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Seppl
In fact, the SS did racial tests on some Czech Districts and found them to be more Nordic than the Sudetenland Germans!

Of course, they were of the Sudetic Race... a kind of Ugro-Finns

Seppl
Thursday, September 26th, 2002, 04:31 AM
Ross,
The "Sudetisch" race as Guenther called them were not only present in the Czech region but in Southern Poland, Sudetenland and Hungary. It was a hybrid of the basic Eastbaltic/Nordic type with Mongol. It was believed this was a residual of the Mongol/ Hunnic invasions of the Medieval period.
In essence, the Nazis recognised that the Slavic Nations were Aryan and in some Slavic provinces, they were just as Nordic as the Germans.
There was a mistaken belief, that the Russians, Poles , some Czechs had a lot of Mongol blood which made them inferior. In fact this was simply a case of the doctrine of Geopolitics, in which the areas the Germans wanted to Colonize or occuppy for "Lebensraum", it was easy to label the population as Inferior to legitimize their actions.
Other Slavic nations or regions where the Reich had no territorial claims were treated favourably e.g. Croatia, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Serbia. Poles are the most Nordic of the Slav nations, in this case many Poles were offered Germanization to stay in the Polish provinces reabsorbed into the Reich, like the Gau Danzig-Westpreussen under Gauleiter Forster. In the Nuremberg laws it stiplated that marriage between Aryans & Non-Aryans was forbidden.
They were many Nazis of Slavic origin such Henlein who was half Czech the leader of the Sudeten Germans. Erich Von Lewinski-Manstein the famous Field Marshall. Odilo Globocnik was half Slovene and half Croat, yet he was an SS General, but he felt himself to be a German. Slavs were classed as related Volk. There were actors like Lida Baarova who was Czech and considered as a Superstar in the 3rd Reich also another Czech Anni Ondra was never discriminated against, but even offered German Citizenship!!:x67

Ross
Thursday, September 26th, 2002, 08:46 AM
Seppl

1. I recall the Sudetic racre was described as pre-Slavic, not of Mongol derivation. Mongoloid influence = Turanid Race (Hungary).

2. Where and when Nazis *stated* that Slavs were Aryan? They stated it about Germanics, I can find quotes, but how's about Slavs?

3. Poles hardly could be the most Nordic if the Slavic Nations. The only Slavic Nations which could be described as *significantly* Nordic were (1) Russia (2) Whiterussia (3) Poland. Simply becausePoles are more roundheaded, broadfaced, dark etc. In fact you can find Nordic enclaves far in Inner Russia, North and South from Moscow...

Take care

Hellstar
Thursday, September 26th, 2002, 01:31 PM
I would have to agree with Ross on this one, Polen is not the most clean Slavic area, they are the most mixed I read.
When my scanner work again, I will post new pics of two polen friends of mine, two very different phenotypic kinds,

Seppl
Tuesday, October 1st, 2002, 08:04 AM
Poland was only an example as the districts annexed by Germany in 1939, were the most Nordic in Northern Poland. Of course Russia would be the most Nordic in proportion and phenotype of the Slavic Nations. There is this constant confusion, of who was classified as ARYAN by the Nazis. Indeed, Dr.H.K.Guenther did acknowledge the racial kinship of the Slavs, Celts, Latins, Balts ect to the Germans. He of course harped on the Ancient Slavs, which were predominantly NOrdic in Phenotype!
The Nazis believed that the Slav Nations had lost their Aryaness through admixture with Mongols & Turks as well were suseptable to Jewish influence easyly, which was totally incorrect. Himmler believed there was a "Germanic Race" and Nordic or "Germanic" looking people in Poland & Russia were really Germans. Political expediency & Geopolitics came into play as those lands which the 3rd Reich sought for "Lebensraum" were inhabited by Slavic speaking populations i.e. Poland & Russia.
I am relaying what was happened in the 3rd Reich, not what is reality! Hitler never actually said anywhere in "Mein Kampf" or in speeches of Slavs being "Subhuman".Even the notorious SS propaganda Pamphlet "Der Untermensch" 1941, showed mainly true Subhumans like Jews, Mongols and Armenoids, not White European Russians. Many SS men & Army personel who invaded Russia, were suprised how "Aryan" the Russian population was!
As to the "Sudetisch" Race, I aggree with Guenther on this one, they are an Eastbaltic/Mongol Hybrid. Magyars claim to be desendents of so called "Turanians" as do Turks, which are a European/ Asiatic Hybrid who brought Finno-Ugaric speech to Europe. It is also ironic that the "Finno-ugaric" speakers of Europe like Hungary, Finnland and Estonians (many served in the Waffen SS) were Hitler's Allies. Linguistically these nations are not Aryan, yet the populations of these Nations are mainly of Eastbaltic, Alpine & Nordic stock so are racially Aryan!
Servus,x_cheers

Zimmer Mann
Thursday, April 10th, 2003, 03:00 AM
Hitler was approximately 5'8 to 5'9 or 174 to 175 cm tall. He certainly was not 181 cm or just under 6'0. I think theres a bit of a "he was 10 feet if he were an inch" kind of mythology. He was right on average height for his time and it is reflected in photographs where a six footer would appear quite tall. The name Hitler supposidly means some kind of quarry worker or a head mason in German. The rarity of the surname is probably due to the abandonment of it after the war. In terms of his appearance he could easily have fit into an English east midlands mould. Hitler was actually quite ashamed of his prominant nose which he considered "a jewish" nose. Theres little doubt he wore his mustache to misdirect it's prominance. Of course the straightness and high ridge ascent is not just nordic but also asthetically pleasing and masculine. Hitler also only had one testicle.

Von Braun
Tuesday, April 15th, 2003, 07:09 AM
It seems as if Hitler was partially Dinaric if he was Ketlic. He also fits the physical description and geographic location of where Dinarics are from. What an honor to share this with him!

Azdaja
Tuesday, April 15th, 2003, 08:27 AM
Many Germans are partially dinaric. I remember a few months back Volksdeutsche sent me about 20 pictures of European dinarics. To me they all looked like typical Germans. Turns out they were Serbian!
This is one of the reasons why I don't understand this idea some people have that Germany is a nordic wonderland. It really is not, outside of the northern portion. The "German look" - and even moreso the "Austrian look" - is the result of dinaric admixture.
If Volk posts some of those photos (I deleted the ones he sent to me), people would note the similarities between those Serbians and Hitler.

Von Braun
Tuesday, April 15th, 2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Nordidu
Many Germans are partially dinaric. I remember a few months back Volksdeutsche sent me about 20 pictures of European dinarics. To me they all looked like typical Germans. Turns out they were Serbian!
This is one of the reasons why I don't understand this idea some people have that Germany is a nordic wonderland. It really is not, outside of the northern portion. The "German look" - and even moreso the "Austrian look" - is the result of dinaric admixture.
If Volk posts some of those photos (I deleted the ones he sent to me), people would note the similarities between those Serbians and Hitler.

Nordidu, it seems like we agree on something. So many people on our side of the fence think that Germany is heavily blonde/blue. As for the Dinaric thing, an anthropologist I met online through Nazz told me that the sharp-nosed "German-look," which I happen to have, is from Dinaric admixture. He also commented on the notion that Germany is almost pure Nordic being due to ignorance in our ranks. :rolleyes:

So it turns out that I look very German afterall. According to Hellstar et. al., I look very Dinaric, and it seems that Dinarics are common in Germany. But you see, this is no surprise to me at all: I always knew I take heavily after my mom's side, which is 100% German, so it all makes sense.

gdilic
Monday, May 5th, 2003, 06:21 PM
My godfather looks like Hitler, no joke;) everytime I see him I give a 'salute' hehe,and he is Serbian.

Nordgau
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 04:35 PM
Hess, Hitler, and Goebbels weren't Nordic.

Hmmm... Hitler wasn't of course "Nordic" when one uses this term in a narrower sense for pure or widely predominant "Central Nordics" in the McCulloch system. If one speaks of "Nordid", he was it at least partly. All in all a Dinarid-Nordid or Nordid-Dinarid blend, I would say. (And he had the most "un-Nordid" look in his very last years when he looked quite "wrecked" from all the "stress", lol.)

I wonder what experts like Volksdeutsche or Frans think of Hitler's phenotype.

http://www.hitler.org/images/young.hitler.jpg

http://www.hitler.org/images/young.hitler2.jpg

http://www.hitler.org/images/youth1.jpg

Awar
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:10 PM
I think that hitler is a Nordic-Dinaric mix.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 07:02 PM
I think that hitler is a Nordic-Dinaric mix.

Noric? Yes, I agree.

Evolved
Saturday, November 1st, 2003, 01:35 PM
Hitler was Noric. He certainly had hypnotic clear blue eyes and medium brown hair, light skin, an only slightly convex nose, narrow face, sloping forehead & moderate browridge, rounded chin and petite jaw. Likely mesocephalic. Shorter than average for a Nordic or Dinaric, I'd estimate he was 5'8" or so, with an thin - average build, with smaller hands and feet and the torso being a little shorter compared with the legs as in Nordics.

Vojvoda
Saturday, November 1st, 2003, 04:37 PM
Hitler was Noric. He certainly had hypnotic clear blue eyes and medium brown hair, light skin, an only slightly convex nose, narrow face, sloping forehead & moderate browridge, rounded chin and petite jaw. Likely mesocephalic. Shorter than average for a Nordic or Dinaric, I'd estimate he was 5'8" or so, with an thin - average build, with smaller hands and feet and the torso being a little shorter compared with the legs as in Nordics.

Good classification! I wouls also like to add that maybe he was just your typical "Keltic Nordid"/Iron Age Nordid. Aren't "Norics" a lot taller,brachycephalic and very blond?

Awar
Saturday, November 1st, 2003, 04:43 PM
Yeah, perhaps you're right. His skull is close to Noric, but his build and pigmentation aren't quite that.

Swiss Hallstatt
Saturday, November 1st, 2003, 05:02 PM
hmm have a look at hitlers pic #2, günther would say he has a too broad forehead to be pure nordic. i may agree.

Glenlivet
Saturday, November 1st, 2003, 10:42 PM
I am by no means an expert. I am just a student among many others. He might have been Dinarid-Alpinid. Nordid might been present as a strain, modification. Anyway, he was not short or dark which anti-racists like to say.

I remember that our history teacher back in gymnasium said that it was odd as he was short with black hair, brown eyes and so forth. I knew even back then that was not true as I had seen enough Discovery documentaries about Nazism. Other students just agreed with him. The teacher was of course a socialist (not extreme), a very nice and caring person and a good teacher, maybe one of the best that I had so far. But he was bias, as he distorted a very simple observation so to refute Nazism. He could have mentioned many other things. To comment about his appearance in that way is the same illogical comments coming from people who say you cannot talk because you are the same way or you have done this or that yourself.

Hitler had fair skin, light eyes and even medium brown (chestnut shade) hair. I see something Falid about him. It is mainly because of the squarish facial shape. He has strong browridges too.

I can see why someone would say Keltic Nordic. It is because of the profile. Also the composition of his appearance might give such an impression. A better example is the narrow-faced British Prime minister, Tony Blair. Note that Hitler had a broad forehead.

So Dinarid-Alpinid-Nordid might really create what Coon would call Keltic Nordic. Nevertheless, Nordid should be the dominant element. Here is what is difficult to analyse, if Lundman's North-Atlantid which should be common in Northern England and Scotland is a similar type to the Continental European Keltic Nordic or not. Maybe they are local developments of similar elements (or rather Nordid with dark non-Nordid types, e.g. Insular Mediterranid in the case of North-Atlantid, Dinarid and Alpinid when it comes to Keltic Nordic).

Photo of Tony Blair:

http://i.timeinc.net/time/poy2001/people/images/blair.jpg

Maybe I am wrong though from my perspective that Nordid is the types found in the Nordic (mainly Scandinavia) countries. That would make many other North and Central European Germanics non-Nordid. It is probably a flawed way of seeing things, as I also see the definition of Europid from an Inner Scandinavian viewpoint. I have for sure seen many more Swedes and Norwegians than Germans and Austrians. So my observation skills need to be improved.




[QUOTE=Tryggviulf]Hmmm... Hitler wasn't of course "Nordic" when one uses this term in a narrower sense for pure or widely predominant "Central Nordics" in the McCulloch system. If one speaks of "Nordid", he was it at least partly. All in all a Dinarid-Nordid or Nordid-Dinarid blend, I would say. (And he had the most "un-Nordid" look in his very last years when he looked quite "wrecked" from all the "stress", lol.)

I wonder what experts like Volksdeutsche or Frans think of Hitler's phenotype.

Awar
Saturday, November 1st, 2003, 10:47 PM
Well, I hope Frans fixes his computer soon.
Could we split this thread?

Nordgau
Tuesday, December 9th, 2003, 06:52 PM
I find that Adolf Hitler looks more similar to his mother while his sister Paula looks a bit more like their father. It's the eyes...

http://www.auschwitz.dk/Paula.htm

http://www.auschwitz.dk/paulahit2.jpg
http://www.auschwitz.dk/paulaklara1.jpghttp://www.auschwitz.dk/paulaalois1.jpg

Mac Seafraidh
Wednesday, December 10th, 2003, 10:43 AM
Yes I would say also that Hitler looks more like his mother.

ogenoct
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 01:00 AM
and explain me and hitler how can black haired
Hitler also had blue eyes.

Constantin

Glenlivet
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 01:33 AM
This has been discussed before but it would be good if you could add a source regarding his eye colour.


Hitler also had blue eyes.

Constantin

Rex
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 04:05 PM
This has been discussed before but it would be good if you could add a source regarding his eye colour.

A famous spanish actress and singer called Imperio Argentina who knew Adolf Hitler in person (she made films for UFA) said in an interview that he had a beautiful and strange (with blue colour variations) blue eyes.

Nordgau
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 06:10 PM
hitler had brown eyes and black hair so he himself was inferior and not nordic.
i've also noticed that he had mongolian nose like atila's nose.
and if hitler had light eyes they were very dark blue.

Hitler had brown hair with a tendency towards dark brown, but not too dark-"blackish". On b/w pictures of course everything non-light blond looks "black".

His eyes were blue. This, namely the "steel-blue" colour, is again and again mentioned by numerous people who saw him personally. It is also clear visible on photos where the face is bigger given that his eyes are light.

Hitler's nose had rather the tendency towards a striking-Dinarid form, thus rather the opposite of a "Mongolian nose" of the Mongolid race. You don't know what you are talking of.

And if you think that non-Nordic people or people with dark hair or eyes were seen per se as "inferior" (sic!) by Hitler/The Third Reich/"Nazi ideology", then you have nothing but kindergarten "knowledge" on Hitler/The Third Reich/"Nazi ideology".
T
http://www.fm99.com/EventImages/hitler.jpg


Some photos of Hitler: http://snyderstreasures.com/gallery/ah?page=1

Colour photos of Adolf Hitler: http://adolfhitler.ws/index.php?module=My_eGallery&do=showgall&gid=3&p=


and explain me and hitler how can black haired and non nordic germans can be found.

Yeah, you really have kindergarten views on the Third Reich, haven't you? No serious race theorist of the Third Reich ever claimed that Germany was subracially 100% Nordic. And no one has to "explain" that to Hitler, but Hitler can explain it to you: there's somewhere in "Mein Kampf" a sentence where he says that in Germany there can be found "Nordic people side by side to Dinarics, Dinarics side by side to mediterraneans" Quoted from my memory).
Real "black" hair, as I would call the hair of Mongolids, Negrids or southern Europids like Orientalids is btw among ethnic Germans almost non-existant, but even very dark hair of ethnic Germans is rather a very dark brown, but not "black"; there's not just a contrast between blond and black. Hardly an ethnic German has really that black hair as it is "norm" among e. g. Turkish immigrants.

Glenlivet
Saturday, May 15th, 2004, 02:43 PM
Hitler had brown hair with a tendency towards dark brown, but not too dark-"blackish". On b/w pictures of course everything non-light blond looks "black".

I would rather say medium brown. In some pictures it looks blondish.



Hitler's nose had rather the tendency towards a striking-Dinarid form, thus rather the opposite of a "Mongolian nose" of the Mongolid race. You don't know what you are talking of.

The nasal tip is upturned, unlike the Dinarid nose. It is not more Dinaroid than many we call Keltic Nordic. His brow ridges are also beyond the Dinarid range. Besides that his skin is too fair for Dinarid, except Noric, who have a different overall look, especially the vault shape and height is not the same. His occiput was also not flat.

Nordhammer
Saturday, May 15th, 2004, 03:50 PM
His nose looks a bit larger and more prominent than average, but I think it may be better described as a Keltic Nordic-type nose.

Glenlivet
Saturday, May 15th, 2004, 07:44 PM
Ja ja...his hair looked dark cendré. His skin was white as sheet and by those who met him his eyes described as light. His facial characteristics and body suggest a more rugged source as Keltic Nordic is often more linear and refined. He is either a more rugged Keltic Nordic (see attached pictures by Coon) or someone with predominantly Phalian traits and a weaker Dinarid.



what are you messing about? hitler had dark brown/black hair.

Nordgau
Friday, June 25th, 2004, 06:43 PM
I split and merged this stuff. Maybe there is some new input. :D

A-C-LA
Monday, June 28th, 2004, 01:23 AM
Phalian traits and a weaker Dinarid.

that's my opinion

Glenlivet
Monday, June 28th, 2004, 10:47 AM
He may have been sub-brachycephalic, Nordid altered by a strong Borreby and Alpinid element. Borreby is basically described as a more robust, often lighter, archaic or proto-morphic Dinaroid. Some physical anthropologists saw it as the prehistoric form behind Dinarids (and also other Taurids). Some individuals may show the more endomorphic and archaic (Borreby) or ectomorphic and progressive (Dinarid) traits. So I do not think it would be far off to call him a Continental Keltic Nordic, features that are at least common in Southwestern Germany. Coon's Keltic Nordics were supposedly formed in that region. Phenotypes are not confined to one region. He could pass for Belgian or from one of the nations in Britain.

In Hans FK Günther's way of analysis he is probably predominantly Phalian with a Dinarid strain. He did not use the terms Borreby or Keltic Nordic. He has a Phalian with Dinarid strain who look exactly like an English Keltic Nordic. It doesn't take a genious to see the connection.

King Yngvar
Monday, October 18th, 2004, 11:36 PM
Have not seen any topic named this here, classify him!

Vojvoda
Monday, October 18th, 2004, 11:40 PM
Dinalpinord :D

green nationalist
Monday, October 18th, 2004, 11:57 PM
Dinalpinord :D
Whats a dinalpinord?

Wasnt he a Aryan Superman?

Gareth
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Nordic+West Alpine... with possible Dinaric and Baltic (nose-tip, ruggedness) strains.

Krampus
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 03:09 AM
I think Hitler looks Keltic-Nordic.

Awar
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 06:07 AM
A predominantly Dinarid + Nordid mix.
If I didn't know where he's from, I'd guess Balkans.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 01:59 PM
It is difficult to say whether he had Nordid ancestors. His body is too pycnic for a Keltic Nordic. His vault look low (can be either (west)-Alpinid or (west)-Nordid). The forehead, chin and nose seem to have been Dinarid influenced. I do not think that the pigmentation is outside of the (west)-Alpinid range, but it is lighter than the description of most Dinarids. His occiput was not flat either. His profile is similar to the Keltic Nordic, but his browridges are stronger (Phalian?).

I have an anthropological picture of a man who more or less resemble him. He is from Oberfranken, Bayern, classified as Phalian with a weak Dinarid strain ("Vorviegend fälisch mit leichtem dinarischem Einschlag)" from Hans FK Günther's Kleine Rassenkunde Des Deutschen Volkes (1933). I would like to hear Agrippa's opinion.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 02:00 PM
I always thought that he look like some of the Belgian Walloons who immigrated to Sweden a few centuries ago.




If I didn't know where he's from, I'd guess Balkans.

Japetos
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 04:22 PM
Μaybe Noric? :|

Aristotle
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 04:26 PM
ΕΥΤΥΧΕΙΤΕ!

European past already classified Him among 12 Olympian Gods!

Kindest Regards!

Katera
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 04:39 PM
A predominantly Dinarid + Nordid mix.
If I didn't know where he's from, I'd guess Balkans.
I'd guess that also... :D

QuietWind
Wednesday, October 20th, 2004, 02:37 AM
I just wanted to add a couple of photos.

SouthernBoy
Wednesday, October 20th, 2004, 02:58 AM
He looks Sub-Nordic with a Dinaric strain present. The pictures of his father look like he is a Dinaric + Nordic. While his mother looks Alpine + Nordic to me.

Stríbog
Wednesday, October 20th, 2004, 04:12 AM
I just wanted to add a couple of photos.

Who is the fellow sitting next to Rudolf Hess in the second photo?

QuietWind
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 03:05 AM
Who is the fellow sitting next to Rudolf Hess in the second photo?
Sorry, I do not know. Maybe we should call in a WW2 expert?

Krampus
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 03:47 AM
Stirbog

Who is the fellow sitting next to Rudolf Hess in the second photo?


Looks like Baldur von Schirach, the same guy in the first picture.

Rhydderch
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 12:48 PM
I've heard that Hitler had an operation on his nose to straighten it (presumably to look more Nordic), so this would make him harder to classify. In pictures I've seen of him in his younger days I think I remember his nose looked more hooked. Quite possible he did have some Dinaric blood.

Nordgau
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 01:06 PM
Have not seen any topic named this here, classify him!

I have. *merge* :D

Fred
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 03:37 PM
I always thought there is something "working class" in Adolph Hitler.
There is something typically Austrian in him. I don't know, the ruggedness of his face I don't know.

I always thought that he look like some of the Belgian Walloons who immigrated to Sweden a few centuries ago.
Can you tell me how look like the average Belgian Walloon who immigrated to Sweden?


Hitler has been played in "Rise of Evil" by the Scottish actor Robert Carlyle. Is there any racial similarities between both? I think there is that "working class" thing in both of them...

Glenlivet
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 03:57 PM
A significant number of the inhabitants of Uppland are descended from the Walloon immigrants. Apart from Uppland they also came as ironworkers to Värmland and Bergslagen, Västmanland and Östergötland.

The demand for iron was great in all Europe as several wars were at that time. 1640th most of the Walloons came to Uppland. Many of them worked in the Dannemora mines and in Österby ironwork. About 1000 women (and children) and about 1000 men came to Sweden. They began assimilating with Swedes only in the 19th century, before that they kept to themselves.

My understanding (from both the literature that I read on their physique, and from what I observed by looking at friends with confirmed Walloon ancestry) is that they are broader-faced, shorter-skulled, the bodies tend to be more pycnic, you can find more snubbed-nosed (although not much more than the Västmanland), and brown eyes and very dark (even black) hair are much more frequent than among Germanic Swedes without Walloon ancestry. The short-skulled component is more like a Borreby, although darker, coarse and low-skulled Cro-Magnoid, and sometimes it reminds me of our Tydals, or the Palaeo-Atlantids in parts of the British Isles.

The Walloons who came to Sweden were not heteregenous. They brought with them Nordid (perhaps Fälish, or a Nordid with a stronger Borreby component as is common for their region, and up to Southern Scandinavia, but they came to Inner Scandinavia where that is not present), Alpinid, Palaeo-Atlantid, Mediterranid (although I have in anthropology works not seen many examples of the gracile sort), and also some Dinarid. I think that many of them have a pigmentation that is similar to the people in parts of SW England and S Wales.

A very typical Walloon example in Sweden (by Lundman):

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/lundborg-fig8.jpg







Can you tell me how look like the average Belgian Walloon who immigrated to Sweden?

Fred
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 07:12 PM
Thanks for the reply.


The Walloons who came to Sweden were not heteregenous.
You mean "not homogenous"... ? :)


I think that many of them have a pigmentation that is similar to the people in parts of SW England and S Wales.
Being a Walloon from Liege myself (most Walloons going to Sweden were from the Liege area), I would say we are slightly lighter than the Welsh. Don't forget that there is a significant Flemish influence in Wallonia, and the western part of Wallonia is named the "Flemish Wallonia".
Anyway, a brunet brachycephal with blue eyes is the commest here.


A very typical Walloon example in Sweden (by Lundman):

Well, I find him way too high vaulted to be a pure Walloon, IMHO. He probably has east baltic influence.

I am interested about the Walloons of Sweden but I have very few information about them. (except some chronicles telling we were competent, hardworking, courageous, exclusive, stout and good mannered ;), well I guess we lost these values over here)

Glenlivet
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 07:50 PM
Thanks for the reply.

You're welcome.



You mean "not homogenous"... ? :)

There should not be a "not" in the sentence, simply heterogenous, or as you say, not homogenous. :)

Swedish anthropologist called them "very mixed", meaning having diverse Europid origins, Dinarid, Alpinid, Nordid, Mediterranid, and so forth.



Being a Walloon from Liege myself (most Walloons going to Sweden were from the Liege area), I would say we are slightly lighter than the Welsh.

Blue eyes are commonplace in Wales. What distinguished the Walloons from Swedes is a number of traits. Let us say that the Walloons tended to look more like populations in Western -than Northern Europe. It is really nothing surprising, but I can definitely say that the Germans (mostly upper class) who came to the big cities in Sweden were not much different from the Swedes. There is a reason why Walloons are talked about as being physically differerent. It would have not been the same if a group of Frisians (who are often as fair, tall and Nordid, and according to Lundman mostly of the Fälish sub-race, Nyessen talk about a Friterpian type, that is very low-skulled) came to Sweden.

I am not sure about that, red hair is quite common among the Welsh, as is very fair skin. They are just rarely like tall, leptosomic, ash-blonde and blue-eyed Göta Swedes.

Welsh actor Rhys Ifans is tall and blonde (he is without any doubt in my mind Nordid):
http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/ce/0210/RIfans_150.jpg

Welsh rugby player Gareth Thomas is also very fair (he look like a typical Keltic Nordic) http://www.wru.co.uk/vsite/vimagesite/images/gif/0,11411,4781-0-43149-0-custom102470,00.gif


Well, I find him way too high vaulted to be a pure Walloon, IMHO. He probably has east baltic influence.

I doubt it. I cannot see any East-Baltid traits in him.

Another Walloon (but also with some Swedish ancestors):

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/lundborg-fig7.jpg

For more info you can also take a look at a website called "sällskapet vallonättlingar":

http://www.vallon.a.se/

Fred
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 08:32 PM
Swedish anthropologist called them "very mixed", meaning having diverse Europid origins, Dinarid, Alpinid, Nordid, Mediterranid, and so forth.
Indeed as everywhere in the Low countries, it is a crossroad of sub-races in Europe.
I would say that many types are present here.

I am not sure about that, red hair is quite common among the Welsh, as is very fair skin. They are just rarely like tall, leptosomic, ash-blonde and blue-eyed Göta Swedes.
Indeed, now that I think of it they are comparable, the old mediteranean-nordic mix of the Welsh is comparable to the mix we have over here. Anyway, the exemples you gave are not typically Welsh, I could give you flemish influenced Walloons but they wouldn't be typical. When I think of Welsh I rather think of a paleo-atlantid type.
But we can compare Welsh to Walloons indeed, the accidented topography favored refuge for the old darker types. ("Walla" means non-German)

I doubt it. I cannot see any East-Baltid traits in him.
Well, at least anything that gave him that high vault, which is fairly uncommon over here.
I still believe that your exemple has some swedish influence.

Glenlivet
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 08:43 PM
Anyway, the exemples you gave are not typically Welsh, I could give you flemish influenced Walloons but they wouldn't be typical. When I think of Welsh I rather think of a paleo-atlantid type.

I wanted to show extreme examples. I do not think that the Welsh are predominantly Palaeo-Atlantid, rather that it is a component found among them that is more rare in the other nations that make up the UK. There are differences between the regions of Wales. The fringes of the western parts of Wales are most likely (as also seen on anthropological maps), typologically and genetically more diverse from SE England, that is genetically more closely related to the northern European continental plain.

The Welsh have according to Baker (Race, 1974) more Neolithic Mediterranid than other Brits. Nevertheless, he wrote that the people are to a large part from Iron Age invaders (Celtae and Belgae), thus basically like what Coon call Keltic Nordic, as he described their physique in the same way. Modern population genetic studies may not support the latter idea though. It is however quite difficult as it is complex to draw direct relations between parallel sciences like physical anthropology and gene genealogy studies. It does not matter much though, as Baker obviously saw something predominantly Nordid (although it should slighly differ in form from the Nordid types found among North Germanics) in their population.

I would be interested to see examples of people in your region that you think are common.



Well, at least anything that gave him that high vault, which is fairly uncommon over here.
I still believe that your exemple has some swedish influence.

He may have some Swedish ancestry, but high vault is very uncommon for Göta, Västmanland and Tydal in Sweden (those three types have a Height-Length Index of approx 68-70). Only the Trönder in Eastern - and Northern Sweden is medium - to high-skulled (HLI of approx. 71-73).

East-Baltid is in Sweden more often than not from Finns, whether it is recent or from the 17th century in Värmland.

Fred
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 09:12 PM
I would be interested to see examples of people in your region that you think are common.
Like I said, Wallonia is very mixed subracially, it's hard to give typical exemple, anyway...
Jean Claude Van Damme is quite typical of Sub-nordic or Alpinid type of Wallonia IMO

The first: Marie Gillain (Mediteranean type?) from Liege (my hometown :))
The second: Emilie Dequenne. Typical girl(Fair alpinid or Sub nordic?) from Namur (green eyes).
The third is Cecile de France (no clue about classification, maybe you can help???) from Namur (green eyes) with alpinid football player Eric Deflandre (dark eyes).
I think Eastern Walloons are darker than Western Walloons (more open to the flemish plain), IMHO. You can see that Mediteranean and Alpinid element are frequent here.

ps: (don't believe the French who want them as their own ;))

Fred
Sunday, October 24th, 2004, 01:30 PM
they are broader-faced, shorter-skulled, the bodies tend to be more pycnic, you can find more snubbed-nosed (although not much more than the Västmanland), and brown eyes and very dark (even black) hair are much more frequent than among Germanic Swedes without Walloon ancestry.
Now that I think of it, is it possible that the Walloons contributed to the "sub-nosed, bearded dwarf Blacksmith" character of Norse tradition that we often see in Dungeon and Dragons and the like? I mean, they sure correspond to that stereotype in a sense: the Walloons were probably described that way and very exagerated stereotype has probably been created from it...?

Bulair
Sunday, October 24th, 2004, 05:06 PM
A predominantly Dinarid + Nordid mix.
If I didn't know where he's from, I'd guess Balkans.
Hitler has a very common look, I think you can see people, who look like him almost everywhere in Europe.I know severeal guys, who look exactly like him.

Valkonnen
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 06:13 AM
He's actually the spitting image of my Italian Grandfather....

MegaSpathi
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 11:22 PM
Hitler was not nothing with "nordic". I heard many times that he actually were part jew or something like that. Of course i don`t believe that. But he was not kelto-nordic or whatever you call it. And what is "noric"?!.
I believe you have made up this anthropoly names here, right here on this forum, or maybe somere else, but it is made up, thats for sure.

Isn`t it enough with these 3 subraces- nordic, alpin, and med? i have heard of dinaric before, but thats enough. I get very confused of your terms here people =)

Valkonnen
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 08:22 AM
Hitler was not nothing with "nordic". I heard many times that he actually were part jew or something like that. Of course i don`t believe that. But he was not kelto-nordic or whatever you call it. And what is "noric"?!.
I believe you have made up this anthropoly names here, right here on this forum, or maybe somere else, but it is made up, thats for sure.

Isn`t it enough with these 3 subraces- nordic, alpin, and med? i have heard of dinaric before, but thats enough. I get very confused of your terms here people =)
You're right in your suspicion of the validity of these terms....

The fact is that Carleton S. Coon was an anthropolgist, who was using his own theories to classify specimens.
He invented these terms way before DNA was discovered, and we now know that 80% of his findings are completely false.

People like to have identity, and I can understand them wanting to know what they are, but I guarantee that most of the people here who identify themselves as Nordic, aren't Nordic at all.

For instance, If you're blonde and blue eyed, but have a round face....You aren't Nordic.
If you aren't tall, Blonde haired, blue eyed, fine bone structure, large forehead,etc.., then you can't be considered "the racial ideal" that the Nazis wanted.

People are so mixed from invasions of the Huns and Mongols, that there are no "Real" classifications.

You'd think that people from Sweden, who have the blondest hair and the bluest eyes would have the fairest skintones as well, but they don't.
The fairest, palest skin is found in areas like the U.K. where it has been overcast for centuries.
People from Sweden have a good tolerance for the sun, and can get a rich coppery tan...People from the U.K. generally can't.

People who identify themselves with their nationality, try to imagine that everyone who lives in a particular place, and who look similar, must be a pure subrace, but there are none...
The English are a combination of the Angles, Saxons, Normans, etc...
They are not a homogenous group of "Pure" people...

It's a scientist's job to come up with theories, and sometimes they become known as fact, but we now know that Coon's work was theory and nothing more....

The Blond Beast
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 10:57 AM
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/festjc/notes/3012.htm

Racially, Gruber characterised Hitler as typically un-Nordic, East Slav.

Nordgau
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 03:19 PM
Hitler was not nothing with "nordic". I heard many times that he actually were part jew or something like that. Of course i don`t believe that. But he was not kelto-nordic or whatever you call it. And what is "noric"?!.
I believe you have made up this anthropoly names here, right here on this forum, or maybe somere else, but it is made up, thats for sure.

Isn`t it enough with these 3 subraces- nordic, alpin, and med? i have heard of dinaric before, but thats enough. I get very confused of your terms here people =)

Lebzelter introduced the anthropological term "Noric" in 1927. The terms "Nordic", "Mediterranean", or "Alpine" are at last also "made up" by someone, and also every other term and expression, which human brains find for natural-biological phenomena, is.

Odin Biggles
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 11:49 PM
Excellent profile picture of Hitler.
http://tinypic.com/98yhj5.jpg

White Falcon
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 12:31 PM
Skull shape reminds me of Croatian leader in ww2 Ante Pavelic who is Cro-Magnid/Dinarid

http://www.geocities.com/nickbrozovich/pavelic/Pavelic5.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/nickbrozovich/pavelic/Pavelic2.jpg

Huzar
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 12:46 PM
Skull shape reminds me of Croatian leader in ww2 Ante Pavelic who is Cro-Magnid/Dinarid

http://www.geocities.com/nickbrozovich/pavelic/Pavelic5.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/nickbrozovich/pavelic/Pavelic2.jpg

I almost forgot this thread.................thread like this are a bit dangerous, i have to say;)


Well, btw i'm here, my opinion (honest) sonds so : Dinaric + Alpinoid.

QuietWind
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 05:36 PM
Yes, this type of thread is always dangerous. ;)

I have my opinions as well, and dinarid is not among them.

Glenlivet
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 06:22 PM
Can you please tell us your opinion?


I have my opinions as well, and dinarid is not among them.

Todesritter
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 06:33 PM
Hitler's look was common enough, people were spotting him attending the Opera in Boston in 1947, or fixing the television across the street in California in 1952.

(There are numerous famous cases of people mis-identified as the vanished former leader of the Third Reich during the early Cold War years, I can post some links if we like.)




My own younger brother looks a bit like a dark-blond version of Hitler - enough so that he has gotten comments on it - also it did not help when a Latino gang member, and some Wiggers (thank goodness I now have a word for these people LINK: (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=296003#post296003)) decided to 'get ghetto' with my small brother in school, and he wrestled them down and scrawled Swastikas on their school books with a knife - but that is a different story.:D

QuietWind
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 06:46 PM
Well, naturally, I am no expert. But I think he is Nordid-Alpine. (Some may call that sub-nordid, I suppose.) His bone structure is mainly gracilized. He has ultra-thin lips which are mainly a nordid feature. Blue eyes. Straight to slightly convexed nose (which is also a nordid feature). His occiput is flatter in the photo Biggles posted than in any other profile shot I have seen. His skull is longer, rather than rounded, and I would estimate him to be mesocephalic.

I just fail to see anything even remotely Dinarid about him. The most dinarid he looks is in his older aged photos, which can simply be accounted for by old age. The effects of ageing and dinaricization have been seen and discussed several times on Skadi. The eyes sink inward, the ears grow longer, the nose changes, etc.

QuietWind
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 06:53 PM
Hitler's look was common enough, people were spotting him attending the Opera in Boston in 1947, or fixing the television across the street in California in 1952.

(There are numerous famous cases of people mis-identified as the vanished former leader of the Third Reich during the early Cold War years, I can post some links if we like.)




My own younger brother looks a bit like a dark-blond version of Hitler - enough so that he has gotten comments on it - also it did not help when a Latino gang member, and some Wiggers (thank goodness I now have a word for these people LINK: (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=296003#post296003)) decided to 'get ghetto' with my small brother in school, and he wrestled them down and scrawled Swastikas on their school books with a knife - but that is a different story.:D
I agree that his look is not all that uncommon. There was a photo someone posted on a forum (possibly skadi), of a Hitler sighting. It was a man sitting and reading. On my old computer I have dozens of photos of Hitler. I used to collect them. :P Anyhow, my mother saw one once and was quite surprised. She asked me if that was Hitler, even though his name was right on it. When I told her it was, she said that my grandfather looked just like him. My grandfather passed away when I was 12 and I never really knew him. He had brown eyes instead of blue (like Hitler), but he was approximately the same height and build as Hitler also.

Nordgau
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 06:59 PM
Just as basic nourishment for the brain-racking here, vo[e]lkermord.com has got a rich collection of Führer pictures in black/white and in colour:

Pictures Adolf Hitler (http://www.volkermord.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=36)
Colour Pictures Adolf Hitler (http://www.volkermord.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=74)

http://www.volkermord.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10093/45252.jpg

http://www.volkermord.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10093/Der%20F%FChrer%20und%20eine%20junge%20M% E4dchen.jpg


And always again: :bravo

Agrippa
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 07:01 PM
Father looked Alpinid with Dalofaelid, mother Nordid with Alpinid and possible slight Dinarid.

He himself looks nordid with alpinid and dinarid influence and a hint of Dalofaelid. Quite mixed but with nordid being the most important part.

To his height:
F.e. for v. Eickstedt were males above 165,0 tall. Thats was true for the 1930's, maybe ok for the 1950's, but isnt now for modern Europeans.
Very tall would have been above 174,0 in his scheme, thats absurd now.

I made some small changes for his scheme, I dont know a better one so far:
Eickstedt for 1930's-50's:
above average: 162,0-164,9, tall: 165,0-173,9, very tall: 174,0-193,9
mine:
above average: 173,0-175,9, tall:176,0-186,5, very tall: 186,6-207,9

Just to see the difference, I dont say my scheme is that good, I just dont know a better and the old ones are passe. Furthermore this are world standards. If you see old maps or comparisons, its necessary to keep the secular acceleration always in mind and to think of the generation we are speaking about.

Huzar
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 08:00 PM
He himself looks nordid with alpinid and dinarid influence and a hint of Dalofaelid. Quite mixed but with nordid being the most important part.

To his height:
F.e. for v. Eickstedt were males above 165,0 tall. Thats was true for the 1930's, maybe ok for the 1950's, but isnt now for modern Europeans.
Very tall would have been above 174,0 in his scheme, thats absurd now.

I made some small changes for his scheme, I dont know a better one so far:
Eickstedt for 1930's-50's:
above average: 162,0-164,9, tall: 165,0-173,9, very tall: 174,0-193,9
mine:
above average: 173,0-175,9, tall:176,0-186,5, very tall: 186,6-207,9

.


About Hitler, i'm sorry but i disagree. With all the respect to your knowledge in the field he doesn't seem nordic to me. Well, i consider myself a student in the field, so i shouldn't base my judment on superficial observations of course, but forget only for a moment the usual anthropometry etc. and look at him without too scientific attention : he isn't nordic (substantially). O.K. this is only my personal and questionable opinion; put it in this way, when i think to a nordic people (even vaguely nordic) Hitler isn't the first person who comes in mind to me. Honestly. Sorry to be provokative with you and with many of the german members here, but i think that in HIS personal case, the general judment is determinantly influenced by external not-scientific factors.
He was german, but he wouldn't out of place here in northern Italy or in yugoslavia (Slovenia/Croatia i mean). Honestly.
I apologize with all anyway, if the thing can offend.



About you tabs, GREAT idea. I had the same some months ago :
here my personal tab

Medium-Short : 168-173

Medium : 173-178

Medium-Tall : 178-183

Tall : 183-188

Very tall : 188 +



.

Agrippa
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 08:08 PM
Well, metrically he is not too far away from an mixed Nordid, sure, nobody would post him as an example for the nordid type, he is totally mixed like most Central Europeans and Europeans in general including myself, but nordid is most dominant in him.
What else would you call him? Alpinid? For sure not. Dinarid? Nope. Dalofaelid? ...
From all his elements nordid is just the most obvious and dominant element, something which makes him typical for many Germans in general, mixed, but nordid element is visible.

Huzar
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 08:12 PM
Well, metrically he is not too far away from an mixed Nordid, sure, nobody would post him as an example for the nordid type, he is totally mixed like most Central Europeans and Europeans in general including myself, but nordid is most dominant in him.
What else would you call him? Alpinid? For sure not. Dinarid? Nope. Dalofaelid? ...
From all his elements nordid is just the most obvious and dominant element, something which makes him typical for many Germans in general, mixed, but nordid element is visible.
If Hitler weren't Hitler, would your opinion be the same ?;)

Agrippa
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 08:36 PM
If Hitler weren't Hitler, would your opinion be the same ?;)

Yes, definitely. More important for the nordid dominance is not who he was, but that I saw his pictures in young age. When he was young he was very slim, almost thin and you could see the bone structure. Most people just know him when he was already over 40, but in his younger pictures the nordid dominance is really clear and the age related change can occur even in pure nordid types...
On the picture beside two of his comrades, both much less nordid than he was, from the 1st world war its obvious. He was taller, longer extremities and the bone structure was rather nordid-mixed too.
Him in the best age for classification (between ~24-36):
http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/graphics/hitler_corporal.jpg

Obviously the most nordid looking:
http://www.ilexikon.com/images/c/c5/Adolf_Hitler_im_Ersten_Weltkrieg.jpg

Older but still younger age:
http://www.greatwar.nl/remarque/adolfhitlerjong.jpg

http://smoter.com/images/AtTheFront.jpg

Again, the most nordid of the group:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/images/hitler_soldier_uniform_wwi.jpg

QuietWind
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 08:49 PM
I think sometimes people get too caught up in pigmentation fetishes. Celtic Tiger asks if the nordid opinion would still be the same if he were not Hitler. I have to ask, would those who think he is not nordid, still feel the same if he were blonde? ;)

Nordgau
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 08:52 PM
@ Agrippa: Here's another piece of a picture showing him during WWI, but the quality of this piece from the Net is not too good:

http://www.inidia.de/hitler_als_gefreiter.jpg

Agrippa
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 08:53 PM
Even when he was young, his head was broader than that of a typical Nordid should be, but of course, nobody said he's pure. Jennifer is right, some might emphasize pigmentation of the hair too much - he had light skin and eyes anyway...

QuietWind
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 09:00 PM
I made Hitler Blonde :) Well, kind of. :D


http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=36497&stc=1

Glenlivet
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 09:42 PM
I would agree that Hitler was no Scando-Nordid. He would probably not be seen as a native in Sweden, but he would not be out of place in say Belgian Flanders or southern England. I do not see the point of comparing most Europeans to Scandinavians, except some northern Poles, people of the Baltic countries, Scotsmen, Englishmen, Dutchmen and NW Germans. Elsewhere, families that can fit in Scandinavia are either of Scandinavian descent or are very unusual in their region of birth.

Why not northern Italy. I have seen individuals in Northern Italy who are phenotypically gracile Scando-Nordids. North Italians are mostly light Alpinids and Dinarids, but there are Phalian and Scando-Nordid individuals. Lundman believed that the racial composition of northern Italy is similar to eastern France.

However, I have observed that many Central European leptosomes who are more or less blonde and non-Alpinoid, look more like certain Englishmen. It is a combination of sharp Nordid and Dinarid traits. Brits have (much) less Alpinid and/or brachycephalisation though, but that is also because of Mediterranoid.

JRR Tolien as a young man:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sk/thumb/d/dc/200px-Tolkien_1916.jpg

Tolkien is of about the same type. He is more Nordid though.

Hitler as a young man look somewhat Mediterranoid too. The pictures are of bad quality though.

Also take a look at the attached picture of a man that was classified as predominantly Phalian with a Dinarid strain. He is quite similar, although he has deeper set eyes.





He was german, but he wouldn't out of place here in northern Italy or in yugoslavia (Slovenia/Croatia i mean). Honestly.
I apologize with all anyway, if the thing can offend.

Todesritter
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 09:57 PM
....

However, I have observed that many Central European leptosomes who are more or less blonde and non-Alpinoid, look more like certain Englishmen. It is a combination of sharp Nordid and Dinarid traits. Brits have (much) less Alpinid and/or brachycephalisation though, but that is also because of Mediterranoid.

JRR Tolien as a young man:
....
From Wikipedia RE: Tolkien comparison as 'Englishmen' (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien))


... The Tolkien family had its roots in Saxony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxony) (Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany)), but had been living in England since the 18th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18th_century). The surname Tolkien is anglicised from Tollkiehn (i.e. German tollkühn, "foolhardy"). ... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Jrrt_1972_pipe.jpg

Nordgau
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 09:59 PM
Yes, definitely. More important for the nordid dominance is not who he was, but that I saw his pictures in young age. When he was young he was very slim, almost thin and you could see the bone structure. Most people just know him when he was already over 40, but in his younger pictures the nordid dominance is really clear and the age related change can occur even in pure nordid types...

The Nordid Leitstruktur in Hitler's appearance is also clearly enough visible at pictures of him from the 1920s and 30s, I find. Rather problematic is the method of hanging oneself onesidedly on pictures showing him in his very last years, where the extreme stress and pressure lead to the known remarkably rapid decline of the man, now anyway already in his mid-50s.

Portrait from the dustjacket of "Mein Kampf" (late 1920s or early 30s):

http://salmon.psy.plym.ac.uk/year3/PSY339EvolutionaryPsychologyroots/Mein_Kampf2.jpg

I think he also scores quite well with respect to his facial relief:

http://www.snyderstreasures.com/images/thumbnails/autographs/AutoAHHoffmannF_small.jpg (http://www.snyderstreasures.com/images/autographs/AutoAHHoffmannF.jpg)
(Click on picture to enlargen it)

Again:

http://www.volkermord.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10093/45252.jpg

All pictures dedicated to Njörd Thorburn Eriksson. :D

Agrippa
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 10:08 PM
I think he can be compared with Englishmen because a paternal line and name is one thing, the generations and women in between another.

dazed&confused
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 10:38 PM
How tall was he?

Glenlivet
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 10:51 PM
That is very good, good info. A good number of (eastern) Englishmen are similar to Germans (perhaps more NW Germans). They do not need to have ancestors that came from Germany during the last century or two.

Not all of his ancestors can necessarily trace back their ancestry to Germany, but Tolkien could surely pass for a type found among Germans.



From Wikipedia RE: Tolkien comparison as 'Englishmen'

Huzar
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 11:14 PM
Why not northern Italy. I have seen individuals in Northern Italy who are phenotypically gracile Scando-Nordids. North Italians are mostly light Alpinids and Dinarids, but there are Phalian and Scando-Nordid individuals. Lundman believed that the racial composition of northern Italy is similar to eastern France.

However, I have observed that many Central European leptosomes who are more or less blonde and non-Alpinoid, look more like certain Englishmen. It is a combination of sharp Nordid and Dinarid traits. Brits have (much) less Alpinid and/or brachycephalisation though, but that is also because of Mediterranoid.
Also take a look at the attached picture of a man that was classified as predominantly Phalian with a Dinarid strain. He is quite similar, although he has deeper set eyes.

Yes, Lundman was right. Northern-Italy and Eastern France are rather similar. substantially, light Alpinid-dinarid (probably i'm a sort of;)) plus a certain % of nordoid peoples.

Nordgau
Saturday, July 23rd, 2005, 11:34 PM
How tall was he?

"Just under 1.75 meters", writes his biographer Werner Maser, as reference I just have now (Adolf Hitler. Legende - Mythos - Wirklichkeit, 14th ed., Heyne, Munich 1993, p. 373). In years of Hitlerological studies, I came across conforming information elsewhere several times.

Drakkar
Friday, July 29th, 2005, 02:55 AM
anyone ever hear of his mother being Jewish?

SouthernBoy
Friday, July 29th, 2005, 02:57 AM
anyone ever hear of his mother being Jewish?
It's unsubstanciated.

FunnyBunny
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 04:50 PM
http://www.faktoider.nu/img/hitler_sv.jpg
http://www.wissen.de/wde/generator/substanzen/bilder/sigmalink/h/hi/hit_/hitler_adolf_1824283,property=inline.jpg
http://www.holokausztmagyarorszagon.hu/images/portraits/hitler.jpg
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/europe/12/17/hitler.tax/long.hitler.jpg
I was wondering if he was really nordic...and what was his hair color? My history teacher told me that he was rather blond, and that his hair looks black because of the colorless photograph.

Pro-Alpine
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 04:57 PM
He has been classified hundres of times before, these "classify hitler threads" usually turn controversial so it would be best if it was locked.

Ragnar Thorsson
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 05:00 PM
Number 5000! :thumbup Congratulations.

Nordid/Dinarid.

FunnyBunny
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 05:04 PM
Number 5000! :thumbup Congratulations.

Nordid/Dinarid.

Did you feally count, or that was a joke?
And what's dinarid? I know it's a racial type like nordid, but what kind is it?

IlPrincipe
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 05:07 PM
I see him as Alpine-Nordid. The combination of dark pictures and his "alpiness" makes him probably more darker then he really was. He also has a long skull and in early days he was rather slender built.

But what about this obession of his eventual "non-nordic appearance"?
First of all, i see him as a great example of every central nordic type that you might come across, thus it won´t contradict with NSDAP´s philosophy about Germans for Germany and Europe for Europeans.

Second of all, and most important, he was the ONE and ONLY leader in Europe who saw racial preservation as a value in itself and for this we can only celebrate the memories of Der Führer

FunnyBunny
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 05:26 PM
The b&w photos make his hair look darker indeed, but he wasn't blond, he was brown haired. Here you can see some color photos:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=63989

What about eye color?

IlPrincipe
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 05:33 PM
The Enigma of Hitler
-Leon Degrelle

"Hitler had deep blue eyes that many found bewitching, although I did not find them so"

Some would also describe Hitlers eyes as Steel blue.

Vasilis
Friday, October 27th, 2006, 10:14 PM
84262

sub-nordic

Algierd
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 12:24 AM
IMO Hitler is Borreby-Dinaric

Sigurd
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 12:25 AM
In my book, Hitler has always been a slightly Keltic-Nordid, i.e. Nordid + Dinarid. His nose is, unlike suggested on the first page, is not of a Norid quality, because it does not stay downturned, but instead is bumpy - such is the "Nordic bump" that is oft seen amongst Keltic-Nordid; probably of a Dinarid quality but not pronounced enough.

What is clearly Nordid is his high facial index, the length of his skull, the light pigment (remember he was over 40 when most pictures where taken: My stepfather has pitch-black hair but was white-blonde until he was about 10, and light brown haired until he was about 20!), the occipital projection. The defined browridges. The soft features.

What is Dinarid is the rather extreme recession and shape of his forehead - the only similarly backwards-going forehead is found amongst Faelids, of which he can be said to possess no influence. Likewise it is less defined, and lacks the Nordid moulds above the eyebrows. The somewhat more filled flesh directly underneath the eyes. The slightly upgoing chin, and the reduction of occipital projection.

(correct me if I am wrong on any of these, been some time since I checked them up ;))

Another argument speaking for Keltic-Nordid is that he would not look alien in England either, to see it bluntly. He would look a little exotic, for both N. and D. elements being continental, but not alien.

Nicola_Canadian
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 01:40 AM
Dinarized Nordid (or rather Nordid+Falid)

Huzar
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 08:52 AM
He has been classified hundres of times before, these "classify hitler threads" usually turn controversial so it would be best if it was locked.


I totally agree. it's too difficult to classify a people like Adolf Hitler , cause the deep implications of the thing. Too many people want (unconsciously) to see nordid or northeuropid traits in him. A normal unknown people (like me for example) with such face, would be classified like "Dinarid + something other". End of the thread (hardly would be longer than three pages). On the opposite, here the thread is 10 pages long and people still discuss about his real eye colour, probably blue, (in normal classification thread, i don't see so much interest in eyec olour.....), so to attribute him a nordid charachteristic, at any cost.


Imo, he could fit anywhere on the European continent : Italy, France Germany , Croatia, Russia etc.

Vasilis
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 08:55 AM
i also think that Hitler was somewhat dinariced. But he was more alpine/borreby than dinaric. Sub-nordic wich includes possible borreby strain would better fit him. I think he looks like a typical central european, i would never had passed him for an English person. A typical Keltic Nordic would be tall and slim (sometimes skinny), long-necked, long-faced, with narrow nose, light brown hair and blue eyes. Hitler was relatively short and broad and he was broad/short-necked. I don't have too much knowledge on anthropology, i may be wrong.

Pro-Alpine
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Looks almost completely Alpinid here.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/82/adolfru0.jpg

anyway, he was probably Norid.

Oswiu
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 06:31 PM
Looks almost completely Alpinid here.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/82/adolfru0.jpg

That's a painting, though, isn't it?
Painters rely as much on their internalised understanding of anatomy, as on the subject they're portraying. Their works tend to resemble each other, and have been subconsciously influenced by a painter's surrounding family and friends and local types.

Hitler seems to be a bit of everything, but predominantly KN or Norid. I've known Irishmen of similar looks.

Ragnar Thorsson
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 06:42 PM
Looks almost completely Alpinid here.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/82/adolfru0.jpg

anyway, he was probably Norid.
You just want to the greatest men on earth to be Alpinid!;) You Alpinid B*stard:D (Don't take it serious):(

Huzar
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 06:45 PM
anyway, he was probably Norid.



Agreed. Afterall, Norid is, probably, the most typical human form of Austria.

Jäger
Sunday, October 29th, 2006, 09:52 AM
Agreed. Afterall, Norid is, probably, the most typical human form of Austria.
Well, for an individual that is rather unimportant.

Anyway, I think rather Keltic-Faelid actually, or even Noric-Faelid, but CM is there IMHO.

Horten
Saturday, December 16th, 2006, 09:27 PM
What about eye color?

http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/349/17/ah1166306950.jpg

He has blue eyes;

Really hypnotic blue eyes .

Oswiu
Saturday, December 16th, 2006, 11:54 PM
http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/349/17/ah1166306950.jpghttp://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/95/87/21/10f.jpg (http://imdb.com/gallery/hh/0413946/iid_1127859.jpg.html?seq=2)
Photo by Photo by David Koppel
of actor Philip Jackson, who plays Chief Inspector Japp in Poirot.
Am I imagining the similarity, and is it significant on a subracial level?

http://www12.plala.or.jp/jyajya/cont/dad_br/09/ph.jpg
http://www.poirot.us/images/japp2.pnghttp://muppet.wikia.com/images/7/71/Phillipjackson.jpg

Airmanareiks
Tuesday, February 27th, 2007, 12:20 AM
The Nazis believed that the Slav Nations had lost their Aryaness through admixture with Mongols & Turks as well were suseptable to Jewish influence easyly, which was totally incorrect. Himmler believed there was a "Germanic Race" and Nordic or "Germanic" looking people in Poland & Russia were really Germans.

Do not cofuse language, religion, ethnicity with race. In a prior post you stated that NS found more nordics in cezhoslavkia then sudaten germany. Which was more German? Or better question, which country was more aryan?

goldgrube
Tuesday, February 27th, 2007, 12:39 AM
Hitler was approximately 5'8 to 5'9 or 174 to 175 cm tall. He certainly was not 181 cm or just under 6'0. I think theres a bit of a "he was 10 feet if he were an inch" kind of mythology. He was right on average height for his time and it is reflected in photographs where a six footer would appear quite tall. The name Hitler supposidly means some kind of quarry worker or a head mason in German. The rarity of the surname is probably due to the abandonment of it after the war. In terms of his appearance he could easily have fit into an English east midlands mould. Hitler was actually quite ashamed of his prominant nose which he considered "a jewish" nose. Theres little doubt he wore his mustache to misdirect it's prominance. Of course the straightness and high ridge ascent is not just nordic but also asthetically pleasing and masculine. Hitler also only had one testicle.

He was supposedly measured at 173cm for a physical by Austrian Army.
Also, In Irving's "Secret Diaries of Hitler's Physician" it mentions Dr Morell's description of his patient, on page 165: "Hitler war etwa 174 cm groß, wog wahrscheinlich 72 bis 74 Kilogramm"

"Hitler also only had one testicle."
Talking of which... He was impotent and never had sex with his wife Eva.

Northern Paladin
Sunday, September 26th, 2010, 10:07 PM
Keltic Nordid altered by Alpinid

you could see the Alpinid in his younger photos

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/pics/hitler99.jpg

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