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Unregistered
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 05:55 PM
There are things about the Jews that are baffling to me, and I can find no source of reference to explain them.

I'm an American, and I have known many Jews. I cannot understand why seemingly 9 out of every 10 have a German surname. These Jews tell me that their family trees go back to Russia, Poland, and the Ukraine, yet they have surnames like Mulbauer, Berlin, and Liebmann. Why wouldn't they have Slavic surnames? Did their ancestors leave Germany for the east as part of the German diaspora?

Also, why are so many Jews of European ancestry pale often with red hair? These Ashkenazim Jews seem to have absolutely nothing genetically in common with the Jews whose ancestors stayed in Palestine/Israel for the last several hundred years. Regardless of how much the Jews may've bred with Germanics, I see no way that such a union could create the current form of Ashkenazim Jews.

I'd also like some kind of timeline of the Jews in Germany. A post here by a very knowledgable member, says that Slavs inhabited Germany up until the 6th or 7th century, at which time the Germanics took over. When did the Jews appear there? Just how much of a genetic influence did they leave on Germans?

Unregistered
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 09:16 PM
Most members probably can't answer this question; others can but haven't read the post. Then I feel there might be a third group of members who have read the question and can answer it, but won't answer a Jewish question. That's a shame, because you can't get the full story about Germanics without acknowledging the Jewish influence.

MCP3
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 10:29 PM
There are things about the Jews that are baffling to me, and I can find no source of reference to explain them.

I'm an American, and I have known many Jews. I cannot understand why seemingly 9 out of every 10 have a German surname. These Jews tell me that their family trees go back to Russia, Poland, and the Ukraine, yet they have surnames like Mulbauer, Berlin, and Liebmann. Why wouldn't they have Slavic surnames? Did their ancestors leave Germany for the east as part of the German diaspora?
Your Real History knowledge appears to be non-existent. You would have to be familiar with Polish and Eastern European history and geography to be able to connect the dots. This lack of knowledge cannot be compensated with a few posts.




The Orthodox Nationalist:
The fall of Poland

June 17, 2010



Matt Johnson discusses:

* The fall of Poland
* Jews in Polish history
* the nobles in Polish history
* the causes of Poland’s fall at the end of the 18th century

Why is it relevant ? Most Westerners don't know or understand Eastern European history and the "general setup." I got deeper into the issue regarding Poland and the Jews in 2009 when reading Alexander Solzhenitsyn's " 200 years together - Russian and Jews". I didn't knew until
reading Solzhenitsyn that much of the land in Western Ukraine and Belarus, that is generally speaking the West side of Dnjepr river was owned by Polish nobles. There was a famine in Belorussia around 1790, and the Czar send out a commission to investigate the circumstances. The commission found out that these Polish nobles preferred to live a comfortable life in the salons of Vienna, Paris and London as exotic "Polish Knights" while basically have rented and leased out their lands to those who offered highest tenure:

The jews.

And they pressed it out of the mostly illiterate peasants, and in case of this famine, exported too much of the grain harvest to the West, over their Lithuanian and London brethren. The result in Belorussia was mass starvation of the peasant population.

And here it is where it gets interesting.

Dr.Matt Raphael Johnson deserves to be quoted word by word.[18:40]

" The Polish nobility was smart enough not to give over the necessary economic power, the merchant power, the liquid banking power to Poles,
so what did they do ?
This is the thesis here, the central concept (of this 2 volume work from 1856 by an English historian):

They gave it to the Jews.

Like i said, about 80% of the world jews would eventually move to the Polish Empire (in the late 17th and early 18th century), even to the point
where jews prior to the Cossack revolt will view the Polish Empire as the New Jerusalem, and more than that, the jews will view the Polish Empire in of itself as Messianic. That the Messiah will come, because the jews have been given a tremendous level of power in the Polish Empire. Not until 20th century America the jews will ever again gain this level of power. The jews controlled all the money in Poland, they controlled all the commerce of Poland, they controlled the monarchy, and they controlled the nobility, and they did this through the fact, that the only people who had any access to liquid money were the jews that were deliberately imported from Khazaria, from Southern Russia into the Polish Empire, and the nobles did this to number one: Keep the monarchy away from money, keep actual Poles away from money, and to keep any of their political opponents away from money.

So by the middle of the 16th century, the early 17th century, you had a powerless monarchy, you had a society completely dominated by nobles,
you had million of slaves of Polish Catholic nationality, and the towns like Kracow and elsewhere were populated by jews who were given licenses by the nobility to engage in all banking, all trade, and the nobility
collectively gave the jewish population in Poland an absolute monopoly over the sale and distillery of alcohol.

I wanna suggest to you guys that a huge proportion of the modern jewish mentality came into existence due to their immense favorable treatment in the Polish Empire at the beginning of the 17th century."
http://reasonradionetwork.com/_archive/MRJ_20100617.mp3
Why do i undertake the tremendous effort to write a transcript ?
Because this pretty much sums up our own future if current affairs continue. "We the people" sold out by our Overclass as "slaves" to a jewish dominated system. Yes, that's right, like the Polish nobles in the early 17th century, our "elites" sell out people of all races including their own.

The matter was discussed here:
"Bolshevism and the Ukraine"
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t747333/

It gives you a glimpse why so many jews ended up in "Poland". Keep in mind that "Poland" is not a fixed region nor was it a state between 1815-1918.
It is in the course of history more a fluent entity which is at one time there, and another time where-else or non existent. In the 16/17 century it covered large parts of today Ukraine and Belarus for example. And because "Polish Economy" is based on allowing the jews to become bond-slave holders of Ukrainian and Russian peasants the "dream economy" for the jews, that why Poland became the New Jerusalem for European Jewry until all it's neighbors were fed up and abolished the Polish Empire (Polish partitions of 1792).

Suddenly the Poles and the jews there became therefor subjects of the Russian Empire and Austria-Hungary (Kingdom of Galicia incl. Duchery of Auschwitz)
And the Emperor of Austria forced the Polish jews to rename to "German" sounding names, that's the background. The jews in their greed choose of course often names with Silver-, Gold-, Rubin-, Stein, Green (Grün-) etc

I am going to address the issue with another post.

MCP3
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 10:32 PM
Most members probably can't answer this question; others can but haven't read the post. Then I feel there might be a third group of members who have read the question and can answer it, but won't answer a Jewish question. That's a shame, because you can't get the full story about Germanics without acknowledging the Jewish influence.

You are jewish.

RoyBatty
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 10:43 PM
MCPThree, this is a very interesting topic. Could you please direct me towards more sources of information to study this phenomenon in Poland? I've often wondered how it came to be that so many (if not nearly all) the Bolshevik scheissters (Neocons included) came from Poland.

Another question, do you know where to find an English translation of Solzhenitsyn's "200 Years Together"? I'm not sure if one exists but if it does I'd love to read it.

MCP3
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 11:01 PM
So why was the Polsih Empire abolished, and with it the jews "divided" between
the Austro-Hungarian Empire (German cultural sphere) and the Russian Empire (Russian cultural sphere, however very Polish and jewish in it's Western Oblasts and the Duchess of Warsaw) ?

When Napoleon Bonaparte came as the great liberator of the Poles (and the jews) the Polish State was reestablished for a few years, and the Poles volunteered in large numbers to take revenge on their former Czarist Russian overlords in the 1812 campaign.

Which in consequence lead to the next abolition of the Polish State and even more rigid anti-semitic laws in Czarist Russia once Napoleon was overthrown. Understood?

I quote Encyclopedia Britannica 1911.

The Congress Kingdom, 1813-186.3. - The Grand Duchy of Warsaw perished with the Grand Army in the retreat from Moscow in 1812. The Polish troops had taken a prominent part in the invasion of Russia, and their share in the plundering of Smolensk and of Moscow had intensified the racial hatred felt for them by the Russians. Those of them who survived or escaped the disasters of the retreat fled before the tsar's army and followed the fortunes of Napoleon in 1813 and 1814. The Russians occupied Warsaw on the 18th of February 1813 and overran the grand duchy, which thus came into their possession by conquest.
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Poland

The Polish state was abolished in 1815 by the Czar as punishment for the behavior of the Polish troops that supported Napoleon's campaign 1812.
And the abolition of Poland in 1815 was agreed to by the Duke of Wellington and Britain.

I also learned from a recent documentary that the Polish plunderers of Moscow (1812) demanded to blow up the Kremlin and the
St.Basil Cathedral which was build 1555–1561 by Ivan the Terrible as thanksgiving to the Church to commemorate his victory over the Tartars.
http://www.traveladventures.org/continents/europe/images/moscow1.jpg
However Napoleon Bonaparte forbade this, in the greater good of mankind but also of the Poles them self. Imagine what would happen to them if they had done this. They would have faced an ordeal one wouldn't like to imagine, at the minimum Warsaw would have burned to the ground and 10.000s of Poles would have been deported to Siberia, if not worse.

I could of course be cynical and say "too bad" that Napoleon forbade this, and with the Kremlin and St.Basil Cathedral destroyed, the Czar's revenge against the Poles could have been that terrible that he would have wiped them off from the face of the earth, thus in consequence the Germans of the 20th century would have had one major problem less. And also the Russians themselves would have gotten rid of this "second biggest factor of disintegration in the Russian Empire" (No1. trouble factor were of course the jews). Then the Polish enclave would be in today's Siberia, next the Birobidzhan, the supposed jewish enclave that never attracted many jews.

Birobidzhan (English)
Биробиджан (Russian)
ביראָבידזשאַנ
(Yiddish)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birobidzhan

Hilderinc
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 11:23 PM
I cannot understand why seemingly 9 out of every 10 have a German surname. These Jews tell me that their family trees go back to Russia, Poland, and the Ukraine, yet they have surnames like Mulbauer, Berlin, and Liebmann. Why wouldn't they have Slavic surnames? Did their ancestors leave Germany for the east as part of the German diaspora?

Germany, or more specifically, the Rhine River Valley has always been one of the most heavily populated areas in Europe. Jews went there because it is obviously much easier to make a living in a city than in the countryside.


These Ashkenazim Jews seem to have absolutely nothing genetically in common with the Jews whose ancestors stayed in Palestine/Israel for the last several hundred years.

Descendants of Khazars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars) ?


Regardless of how much the Jews may've bred with Germanics, I see no way that such a union could create the current form of Ashkenazim Jews.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, it only matters what genetics/biology do.


A post here by a very knowledgable member, says that Slavs inhabited Germany up until the 6th or 7th century, at which time the Germanics took over.


Germanics inhabited these lands much earlier than the 6-7th centuries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Germanic_tribes_%28750BC-1AD%29.png
■ Settlements before 750 BC
■ New settlements after 750 BC until 1 AD
■ New settlements until 100 AD
■ New settlements after 100 AD

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Pre_Migration_Age_Germanic.png




I'd also like some kind of timeline of the Jews in Germany. When did the Jews appear there?


Historical records show evidence of Jewish communities north of the Alps and Pyrenees as early as the 8th and 9th century. By the end of the first millenum, Jewish populations were well-established in Western Europe, later followed the Norman Conquest into England in 1066, and settled in many cities of the Rhine area by the end of the 11th century. With the onset of the Crusades, and the expulsions from England (1290), France (1394), and parts of Germany (15th century), Jewish migration pushed eastward into Poland, Lithuania, and Russia.


Just how much of a genetic influence did they leave on Germans?

Very little.


"Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors."



Then I feel there might be a third group of members who have read the question and can answer it, but won't answer a Jewish question. That's a shame, because you can't get the full story about Germanics without acknowledging the Jewish influence.

What do you mean by this?




Another question, do you know where to find an English translation of Solzhenitsyn's "200 Years Together"? I'm not sure if one exists but if it does I'd love to read it.

It seems no English translation exists, but this seems to be one of the only amateur attempts to translate it.

http://www.ethnopoliticsonline.com/archives/ais/ais%20main.html

MCP3
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 11:32 PM
MCPThree, this is a very interesting topic. Could you please direct me towards more sources of information to study this phenomenon in Poland? I've often wondered how it came to be that so many (if not nearly all) the Bolshevik scheissters (Neocons included) came from Poland.



You may wonder why the England of 1815, the England of the Duke of Wellington, was neither polophil nor philosemtic, and why the England of 1919 and 1939 was both, it "loved" both, the Poles and the jews.

This is a map from a jewish holocaust site that estimates jewish population in Europe 1939 at the outbreak of WW2:
http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/gifs/Jewpop.gif
But as anyone who is not completely blind see, the German jews (270.000 in GG incl. Austria) were numerically insignificant to the 3,2 (the map says 3,3) million Polish jews.
The factor is 1:10, and now keep in mind that the Polish Second Republic according to census of 1938 had (only!) 22 million Polish inhabitants. Thus the jew-quote was 10% of the population. Do you understand now why there is no way to avert the English declaration of war, if Hitler touches the breeding ground of European jewry, namely the new Polish State, which was an Entente (speak British-French) creation of Versailles to destabilize the German backdoor and to supposedly put a brake on Soviet expansion, for which Poland is of course much too weak.
American complain about 3% of their population being jewish. These whiners should live in the Second Polish Republic with 10% of the population being jews.

However Allied propaganda likes to link these Polish jews to the Nazis, and make them therefor to "German jews" (thus: victims). And also the jews themselves, equipped with Nazi concentration-camp papers after the war liked to portray themselves as "German" jews, and not as it would have been correct in the most cases as Polish or Eastern European jews.



Another question, do you know where to find an English translation of Solzhenitsyn's "200 Years Together"? I'm not sure if one exists but if it does I'd love to read it.
No. Despite for being on the market for 8 years there is still no English edition available. But it is available in French or German. I suspect there is no English, simply from the fact that both the jews and the Poles are not portrayed in the most favorable colors, therefor the work it is not PC in the US and BE. On Wikipedia it is even labeled as anti-semitic.
I don't think it is anti-semitic, because it portrays both views, the Russian and the jewish. Solzhenitsyn also describes 1000 years of perils and pogroms for the jews in Russia, after the Kiev Rus destroyed the Khanat of Khazaria, which led to the jewish diaspora of the Ashkenazi jews over the whole Russian Empire, until they "all" wandered westward into the Polish Empire where they found most favorable conditions. The first pogrom in Kiev was already in the 1oth century, and up the 15th century jews were forbidden to enter the cities of Moscow, Novgorod and Smolensk because of their usuary and other cheating of the illiterate peasants.

RoyBatty
Friday, December 10th, 2010, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the URL Norsewarrior. Unfortunately they appear to have pulled the translations because an "official" translation appears to be on the way. I did find an interesting review on Amazon.



By James de Juste (USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Two Hundred Years Together : Part One (Hardcover)
Solzhenitsyn's book "Two Hundred Years Together" refers to the approximate two hundred years that the Jews have lived in Russia with the Russian people.

This book can and should be taken as an extreme cautionary tale to Americans.

What the Jews did nearly one hundred years ago to the Russians, the circumstances are setting up in a similar way to have the same kind of thing happen in the USA. Instead of Communism the flag will be the New World Order. And as Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) wanted Communism to go international, so will go the New World Order. With the very, very quiet almost infinite wealth and power of the Rothschilds behind this, you know that it is slowly comming about.

Just exactly why the book is not available in English, one can only surmise. It has -- as a whole -- not been translated into English. And even so, its clear that no publisher of books in English will touch it -- the publishing business, of course, being Jewish dominated. The book has been in existence for some years, and why a major book by a major writer and important ethical force in the Twentieth -- or any other -- century, like Solzhenitsyn, should be ignored is a mystery unless it is viewed as anti-Semitic by the field of Jewish publishers, and that would be the cause of it's being stonewalled.

In any event, several chapters from "Two Hundred Years Together" were translated for the book, "The Solzhenitsyn Reader". So my review comments here are based on those several chapters.

What is clear in these chapters is Solzhenitsyn's great care in developing very unbiased analysis and in referencing historical facts in a straight-forward way. His aim is not to point fingers of blame but to deliver an accurate and measured reportage to try to get Russians and Jews to be more in harmony. He presents each of the Russian Nineteenth Century and the Twentieth Century, relative to Russian/Jew relations, as very distinct periods.

He discusses a bit the "Pale of Settlements" of the Nineteenth Century; that is the sizable twenty percent of land in West Russia set aside for the Jews originally promulgated by Catherine the Great, (see map on Wikipedia). And he discusses the pogroms.

He discusses the roles of both the Russians' and the Jews' in the Bolshevik revolution. With the revolution, the Tsarist bureaucracy was kaput. There, aside from the Jew Trotsky and Jews of high Bolshevik rank, e.g., Zinoviev, et al., he notes the vast assignment of Jews to Bolshevik commissars, organizational, and administrative jobs, to collegiums and presidiums, and how much of that was then cruelly administered by those Jews toward the Russians.

But Solzhenitsyn says he agrees with Jewish authors and gives the benefit of the doubt in "The Jewish Question" by characterizing the Jewish Bolsheviks simply as "renegades," in other words turncoats -- yet they were arrivistes into the new Bolshevik society such as it was. But many, he writes, were, indeed, also anti-Russian.

Although the Lenin Museum, in Moscow, Russia, now openly lists Lenin as a Jew, Solzhenitsyn classifies him as a Russian -- and a "cowardly" one, he writes, who went into hiding occasionally when things got dicey.

It is no secret that Jews have been trying to distance themselves from their major roles in Bolshevism during and after the revolution, and hope that it would be forgotten -- bad press down the memory hole. Solzhenitsyn's writing on this, if and when it fully comes out in English, will go a long way to fix it in history and in present day consciousness -- again, that is doubtless why there is resistance by the Jews to its publication. That is a kind of manipulation of public knowledge, passive though it be, and should anger lovers of free speech and correct history everywhere.

As yet, as I have seen in those few translated chapters -- or not seen -- there was no mention of the hideous and cowardly murder of the Russian royal family by the Jews, or of the largess of New York Jewish International banking money that financed Trotsky to start the revolution, monies which were not donated from a pure Socialist motivation but from a Capitalist one, a motivation toward a substantial return on investment, which indeed paid off. Those sub-plots would suposedly have to be included in the full book if we ever see it released in English.


Interesting it is how Solzhenitsyn in his taxonomy separates Russians and Jews though living in the same country. It's as if we in the US would classify Americans on the one hand and Jews on the other; however appropriate that might be for the Jews here having dual citizenship with Israel and dual loyalty, (most always with ultimate loyalty towards Israel and the Zionist project than toward the US).

All we as Americans can do is hope that Jews will not try to start a repeat of the Bolshevik sedition in our country in some other form of take-over such as a New World Order. Realistically, as of 2010, the Jews already fully control the US Administration, the Congress and the media, so the future is murky for us.

But this prospect is so bone chillingly real and scary that Gentiles should be shouting warnings about it from the rooftops. Yet one knows that we are not going to do that, but rather passively, even somnolently, let a Jewish New World Order come upon us with probable consequences much like what the Russians experienced. Afterwards we will say, "But why, oh why didn't we do something about it when we had a chance".

```````
As an addendum, in his 27 May, 2010, piece titled, "Jewish Censorship for a Brave new World," Brother Nathanael Kapner, who is of Jewish extraction but became a practicing Orthodox Christian Brother writes the following:

"Exposing Bolshevik Jewish leaders as perpetrator of the mass murders of over 60 million Russian Christians and the complicity of the Jewish community, Solzhenitsyn broke the last taboo on the history of Russia's most painful period.

"Although Solzhenitsyn carefully chronicles the deeds and misdeeds of Jews and Russians alike and pleads for mutual repentance on the part of both, instead, the Jewish censors approached the book in the spirit of a malicious prosecutor presenting to a jury 'hidden motives' of 'Jew baiting' and 'anti Semitism.' Thus the book remains only in its Russian version with no English translation in sight. [French and German translations are available, ed.]

"Who wins and who loses? The Jews win by forbidding the Western world a huge segment of very important history. Who loses? Those whose search for truth in historical events is stymied by the imposers of a false version of the past in a brave new Jewish world."

```````
[Update, 4 July, 2010]

There is now a professional native English translator (at Ethnopolitics) who has been willing to undertake the translation of Volume 1 for a fraction of market price; and the English translation of Chapter 18 of "200 Years Together," "The 1920s" is now available. The following are some comments on that chapter's translation, including some Solzhenitsyn quotations:

Not only did Jews favor their own, observers noted that they regarded the Russians with contempt. Solzhenitsyn quotes Maslov (a Jewish writer): "The preference for their own is displayed in a sharp, discourteous manner which is offensive to others". (This, of course, refers to the legendary and age-old Jewish traits of exclusionary solidarity and networking in obnoxious ways.)

"In the 20's the inevitable question hangs in the air that was posed many year later by Leonard Schapiro: why was it `highly likely that anyone unfortunate enough to fall into the hands of the Cheka would go before a Jewish interrogator or be shot by a Jew.' "

He also emphasizes that a prime motive for Jews was revenge against the old order. Describing a family of Hasidic Jews who became prominent in the Cheka, he notes, "They thirsted for revenge on everyone -- aristocrats, the wealthy, Russians, few were left out. This was their path to self realization."

Solzhenitsyn continues: "Jewish communists participated efficiently and diligently" in collectivization. It was a war against the Russian people -- a war that was carried out with "a certain enthusiasm among Jews."

His research showed that the Jews in government service in those times were 6.5 times their numbers in the population at large.

It is without question that Jewish intellectuals and activist organizations have attempted to sanitize the Jewish role in the darkest days of the USSR. That explains the foot-dragging on translation and publication by the Jewish publishing industry of Solzhenitsyn's exposé.

```````
[Update, 19 July, 2010]

Chapter 22 is now translated and is entitled, "From the End of the War to Stalin's Death". "The Occidental Review" currently has a precis of this chapter by Prof. Kevin MacDonald.


http://www.amazon.com/Two-Hundred-Years-Together-Part/dp/5969703729

MCP3
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 12:10 AM
So what happened after 1815? The bulk of European jewry (speak: The Polish jews) found themselves in Austria-Hungary and the Russian Empire.

Dr. Matt Johnson offers another lecture about Austria-Hungary and the Galician problem.

Matt Johnson discusses:

* The Austrian Empire;
* The coalition against Vienna;
* The coalition for Vienna;
* The Slavs under Austria and Hungary.

http://reasonradionetwork.com/_archive/MRJ_20101104.mp3
I really recommend these MP3 files to download and listen. This guy is a retired University Professor for European history. Now that he is retired he can talk about things one cannot talk that openly in public if still a public figure.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRM27JYdLgWhXLyDvT2mu2 Rqy3iWodIvWae_ZT4tAaV9VjkuwE&t=1&usg=__6QA7-OFmDod53hgOB78cPs2wc-Y=

Full size ethnic map of Austria-Hungary:
http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/europe/austria/austria_hungary_1911.jpg

Austrian Empress Maria Theresia annexed in 1792 the former Polish province of Galicia in the second Polish partition, the bulk of Poland became a Russian province as Duchess of Warsaw.
Hitler always refered to this act as the "biggest mistake in German history", because Galicia was inhabited by 40% Poles, 30% Ukrainians and 15 % (!) Jews. The rest is other small minorities. According to Hitler the inhabitants of Galicia posed a tremendous "criminal threat" to not only Austria-Hungary, but the whole German language sphere, because their inhabitants , whether jews or Poles began wandering all over the Empire seeking a better life. The only "reliable" group on which the German administration relied were the Ukrainians, as they were mostly rural people and did not swarm to Vienna, Budapest, Prague, later Berlin and Munich to seek a better and higher standard of life. This is why the Polish jew in the 19th century were able to move westward, into Germany but also to Britain, France and into the New World. While the Czar had special laws that prohibited the jews to move freely around, or to own land or to enter certain cities, 800.000 Polish jews of Galicia now had the freedom of establishment all over Austria-Hungary and later Germany.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Galicia_1897_1.jpg/800px-Galicia_1897_1.jpg
Notice how the name " Duchy of Auschwitz" appears on this old map?
And the Southern neighboring province was Transylvania, home of a famous fable about vampires.

More details here:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t755078/#post8669659

And everyone that stems from Galicia is fanatical nationalist of it's own tribe. Poles were fanatic Poles, Ukrainians were fanatic Ukrainians, jews were fanatic jews/zionists. These 3 groups accounted for 97% of the population there. The jews were at one time forced by Vienna to rename their names so that they become writable in German. German was imposed as 2nd language (administration language) on all 3 groups in this province from the early 19th century on until 1919.

Here a few random names of Galician jews who became famous because they made career in Vienna:
Siegmund Freud, Wilhelm Reich, Ludwig von Mises ("Austrian" School of Economics later in America, not "Polish School"), Elie Wiesel, Simon Wiesenthal and many, many more.

MCP3
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 12:20 AM
Thanks for the URL Norsewarrior. Unfortunately they appear to have pulled the translations because an "official" translation appears to be on the way. I did find an interesting review on Amazon.



http://www.amazon.com/Two-Hundred-Years-Together-Part/dp/5969703729

I think the title is a bit misleading, but Solzhenitsyn himself wanted it that way.It hints on the fact that the jews had citizen rights only for 200 years in Russia, before this they were practically outlaws. The first chapter of the books covers the time period 1000 - 1800. All other chapters cover the "200 years together". I myself found that the first chapter is the most important, as it starts with the Kiev Rus and the Khanat of Khazaria, the "jewish Kingdom" in the steppes of Southern Russia which the first Russian State annihilated.

Let's hope that Prof. Kevin MacDonald will care for a fair translation. I notice all the time that NS material for example is "fixed" when translated into English. You sometimes have different books, this includes even the works of David Irving.

Unregistered
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 04:03 PM
You are jewish.

Paternal Grandparents were German Lutherans. Maternal Grandfather was German-American Reformed. Maternal Grandmother was Polish-American Catholic. I'm an American Presbyterian. I grew up in a town with a large Jewish population. Almost all had German surnames, and not only the typical Gold's and Stein's and Rosen's, but also Schneiders, Schaefers, and Schultzes. Yet a large majority traced their ancestry back to eastern Europe rather than Germany.

Thank you for your very detailed responses. They do shed a lot of light.

MCP3
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 06:10 PM
Paternal Grandparents were German Lutherans. Maternal Grandfather was German-American Reformed. Maternal Grandmother was Polish-American Catholic. I'm an American Presbyterian. I grew up in a town with a large Jewish population. Almost all had German surnames, and not only the typical Gold's and Stein's and Rosen's, but also Schneiders, Schaefers, and Schultzes. Yet a large majority traced their ancestry back to eastern Europe rather than Germany.

Thank you for your very detailed responses. They do shed a lot of light.

Schäfer/Schaefer and Schulze are absolute German and not jewish, Schneider or Rosenberg can be both. For a jew to acquire the names Schulze or Schaefer would signal intermarriage in a previous generation. Also many diaspora Germans can trace their ancestry back to Eastern Europe, the Baltic States or the Russian Empire. During Vertreibung, which was not limited to the Germans inside the borders of the Reich, but also hit the Baltic Germans, the Ukrainian Germans (meritocrats often), the Transilvanian Siebenbürgers and so forth.

You claim to have "German" ancestry, but why don't you register then, and why do imply obvious nonsense:

Most members probably can't answer this question; others can but haven't read the post. Then I feel there might be a third group of members who have read the question and can answer it, but won't answer a Jewish question. That's a shame, because you can't get the full story about Germanics without acknowledging the Jewish influence.
In my book you typical jewish, you even admit it indirectly (see bold marked).

The jews have/had NO genetically impact on the Germans, because intermarriage was all throughout the 19th and up to the mid of the 20th a "taboo" for both sides. During the Third Reich time it was verboten anyway. There was however a certain jewish influence on German culture, science and literature from the mid 19th century up to 1933.

The problem with the jews in the Third Reich was less with the German jews, EKI winners and jewish veterans of the German Army were generally exempted from any antisemitic legislature and stood under the personal protection of Adolf Hitler (at least in theory) , but with jewish immigrants from Poland. The term "Galician jew" is common up to the day in Germany. It refers to a slimy cheater, criminal, pimp and/or fraudster who talks with Yiddish accent. A good description of the "Galician jew" is offered in Mein Kampf. These were the guys who dominated as street merchants, pimps and illegal gambling the streets of Vienna and angered the young Art-student Adolf Hitler who himself had nothing and could not even afford to rent an apartment.

It is plain on view that Allied propaganda as well as Polish/EE jewry here as well distort the picture.

Unregistered
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 08:10 PM
Please pardon the quotes, as I was unable to keep what you quoted. Therefore I could quote what you said, but when those quotes directly quoted me, they are deficient.


...and Schulze are absolute German and not jewish.

It was "Schultz". I only added the "e" in order to add the "s" and make it plural. I recognize that there is "Schultz", "Schulz", "Schultze", and other versions of this surname. The two Jews I knew were unrelated and both had the "Schultz" surname. I'm not sure if that makes a difference, or if all versions of this surname are German and not Jewish. I also had no idea that some German surnames were never Jewish. How can I learn more about which surnames are 100% German? I have come across so many people where I wonder "German or Jew?".


You claim to have "German" ancestry, but why don't you register then, and why do imply obvious nonsense:.

Oh, I have German ancestry! You don't know how often I am trying to find out who is German and who's not. It's like a bloody obsession with me. I know genealogy isn't that simple, but when I find people of German descent I think "He/she has my blood". Growing up surrounded by Jews, I found a lot of German surnames but very few Germans.

As far as why I don't register, I'm American and won't support German (or Germanic) nationalism. If I were German, I'm sure I would feel differently. But here I live in a country of many peoples, so I'm not going to put Germans ahead of (or behind) any of them. I take a big interest in things German, but my allegiance is to the USA. My father's parents turned their backs on Germany when they came here in 1926 (and my mother's father's ancestors did the same whenever the hell they came here). They did everything they could to become American. They never taught my father German, and they told him very little about the fatherland. I'm the legacy of that, but I do have pride in Germany and Germans.

As far as why I suggested Germanics might not want to answer my question, when I saw so much time passing by without anyone answering my question, I sort of wondered. I thought they might see my question as irrelevant. To me the Jewish question is anything but irrelevant. I wanted to stir the pot and get someone to answer me.


In my book you typical jewish, you even admit it indirectly

There is nothing Jewish about me. I know next to nothing about the religion, and no one has ever accused me of looking Jewish. I have no reason to believe there is any more Jewish blood in me than there is in any other German. And from your posts, it doesn't seem the Jews were mixing with the Poles either, so I won't assume to have Jewish blood based on the Polish branch of the family tree.

To say that the Jewish influence is important is not agenda-based. You have millions of Jews with German surnames. That is important in my book. That says right there that this is a big issue. I want to know if any of those Jews share my blood. You explained that Schultz was always German. So right there, I find that those two Jews are at least somewhat German. They at least have something in common with me from a genealogical standpoint. Doesn't every German-American with at least a morsel of German pride find himself constantly wondering if someone is a "German or Jew?" Even if you are right about the 19th and 20th century interbreeding, what about before that? I am only looking for the truth. I want to know who is related to me and who isn't. I am not looking for common geneaology with the Jews, but I am not going to ignore it if it is there.


The problem with the jews in the Third Reich was less with the German jews, EKI winners and jewish veterans of the German Army were generally exempted from any antisemitic legislature and stood under the personal protection of Adolf Hitler (at least in theory) , but with jewish immigrants from Poland.

I read a book called "Hitler's Jewish Soldiers" by Bryan Mark Rigg. It said that most Germans' hatred of Jews was limited to these easterners. They even said that many German Jews felt the same way about them. They specifically mentioned a case in which a WWI veteran Jewish Officer wanted to keep his post. He was freinds with someone in Hitler's inner-circle, and together they petitioned Hitler to allow him to stay in the military. The officer wrote a scathing letter about eastern Jews and what a scourge they were to Germany. His friend wrote a second letter telling Hitler that the Officer was just as loyal to Germany as any Aryan. Hitler would not be swayed, and the Officer was dismissed. It didn't say whether he was protected through the war. But it did make it quite clear that it was the eastern Jews with whom most Germans had a problem.

Hilderinc
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 08:48 PM
As far as why I don't register, I'm American and won't support German (or Germanic) nationalism. If I were German, I'm sure I would feel differently. But here I live in a country of many peoples, so I'm not going to put Germans ahead of (or behind) any of them. I take a big interest in things German, but my allegiance is to the USA.

You must not understand what Germanic is then.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/5/54/20080929154805!Germanic_Languages.PNG

MCP3
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 09:06 PM
I read a book called "Hitler's Jewish Soldiers" by Bryan Mark Rigg. It said that most Germans' hatred of Jews was limited to these easterners. They even said that many German Jews felt the same way about them. They specifically mentioned a case in which a WWI veteran Jewish Officer wanted to keep his post. He was freinds with someone in Hitler's inner-circle, and together they petitioned Hitler to allow him to stay in the military. The officer wrote a scathing letter about eastern Jews and what a scourge they were to Germany. His friend wrote a second letter telling Hitler that the Officer was just as loyal to Germany as any Aryan. Hitler would not be swayed, and the Officer was dismissed. It didn't say whether he was protected through the war. But it did make it quite clear that it was the eastern Jews with whom most Germans had a problem.

There is only one problem with this book.
It is in large parts fictional and written by a member of what i perceive as the Intelligence community.

About the author:

Bryan Mark Rigg born 1971, is an American author and speaker who received his PhD from Cambridge University. He is based at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. Rigg discovered the large number of "Mischlinge" (part-Jews) who worked for Nazi Germany, in the army or in other administrative roles.
His work has been featured in the New York Times and on programs including NBC Dateline and Fox News. Raised up as a Baptist Christian, he discovered he was of Jewish descent, converted to the Jewish faith and served as a volunteer in the Israeli Army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Mark_Rigg


He identifies himself today as Jewish[4], and studied in Israel at the "Ohr Sameach" Yeshiva. He also joined a short volunteer program at the Israeli army[5]

And studied at Yeshiva university.

Academics and universities reject the "findings" of Riggs.
He must not be quoted in scientific works.

I here and now state that Bryan Mark Riggs is liar and his book is stereotypical this genre:


Black propaganda is false information and material that purports to be from a source on one side of a conflict, but is actually from the opposing side. It is typically used to vilify, embarrass or misrepresent the enemy.[1] Black propaganda contrasts with grey propaganda, the source of which is not identified, and white propaganda, in which the real source is declared and usually more accurate information is given, if also slanted or distorted.

Black propaganda purports to emanate from a source other than the true source. This type of propaganda is associated with covert psychological operations.[2] Sometimes the source is concealed or credited to a false authority and spreads lies, fabrications, and deceptions. Black propaganda is the "big lie," including all types of creative deceit.[3]

Ultimately, black propaganda relies on the willingness of the receiver to accept the credibility of the source. If the creators or senders of the black propaganda message do not adequately understand their intended audience, the message may be misunderstood, seem suspicious, or fail altogether.[3]

Governments will generally conduct black propaganda operations for two different reasons. First, by utilizing black propaganda a government is more likely to succeed in convincing their target audience that the information that they are seeking to influence them with is disguised, and that its motivations are not apparent. Second, there are diplomatic reasons behind the use of black propaganda. Black propaganda is necessary in order to obfuscate a government's involvement in activities that may be detrimental to its foreign policies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda

Unregistered
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 09:37 PM
You must not understand what Germanic is then.

I want to show respect and reply to anyone who replies to me, but I have no idea what to make of this comment.

MCP3
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 09:40 PM
As far as why I don't register, I'm American and won't support German (or Germanic) nationalism. If I were German, I'm sure I would feel differently. But here I live in a country of many peoples, so I'm not going to put Germans ahead of (or behind) any of them. I take a big interest in things German, but my allegiance is to the USA. My father's parents turned their backs on Germany when they came here in 1926 (and my mother's father's ancestors did the same whenever the hell they came here). They did everything they could to become American. They never taught my father German, and they told him very little about the fatherland. I'm the legacy of that, but I do have pride in Germany and Germans.
Good. As an American you have the obligation to resent any form of racism or national identity other than "American".


American people or Americans are a nation and denizens of the United States. The United States is a multi-ethnic nation, home to people of different ethnic and national backgrounds. As a result, some Americans don't take their nationality as an ethnicity, but identify themselves with both their American citizenship and their ancestral origins. Aside from the indigenous Native American population, nearly all Americans or their ancestors immigrated within the past five centuries.[17]

Due to the multi-ethnic composition, the United States is a multicultural nation, home to a wide variety of traditions and values
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_United_States
This is the Wikipedia definition of the "American people" and the USA State agenda is to expand multiculturalism, multi-ethnic interests. And by the very nature of this agenda anyone with a racialist or nationalist interest (that is not American) is therefor the irreconcilable enemy of the USA State and Empire. Make no mistake about it, White Nationalists, Black Nationalists , Chinese Nationalists, all European Nationalists , all Asian nationalists etc are therefor by definiton "Enemy of the USA".
Including of course White Nationalists, KKK, NS, Black nationalists etc inside the US itself.
Of course no one can defend itself against with conventional weapons, so the war is merely a cultural war. Any people, no matter where, are therefor bound to struggle cultural "Americanization", to reject the holywood filth and the whole porn that stems out of California. For White Americans themselves there is only hope if they immediately destroy their TV sets to escape the propaganda bombardment and cancel all newspapers subscriptions, reject any commercial and boycott this vicious system as good as possible.



As far as why I suggested Germanics might not want to answer my question, when I saw so much time passing by without anyone answering my question, I sort of wondered. I thought they might see my question as irrelevant. To me the Jewish question is anything but irrelevant. I wanted to stir the pot and get someone to answer me.
Whatever. Your mind is poised with too much "all things jewish".
Because it is NOT the way you think it is. Unlike you, the average European, whether he is English, German, French or Polish, is not obsessed about jews. In reality most ordinary give a dam about them. Only jews think the whole day about themselves (thus: jews) and their supposed closeness.








There is nothing Jewish about me. I know next to nothing about the religion, and no one has ever accused me of looking Jewish. I have no reason to believe there is any more Jewish blood in me than there is in any other German. And from your posts, it doesn't seem the Jews were mixing with the Poles either, so I won't assume to have Jewish blood based on the Polish branch of the family tree.
You are very jewish. If you are really non-jew then you are the typical judaized American who believes that he lives in a "Great Nation", the US-military is noble and great, the CIA is our friend and that "we should rally to the flag, all Americans whether White, Black, Yellow are One Nation".
And of course you would believe everything they tell you, any nonsense , whether it is that Osama Bin Laden and 19 Arabs brought down the WTC complex, attacked the pentagon or that Bryan Mark Riggs is right when saying "150.000 jews served in Hitler's army" (out of 270.000, see map about number of jews pre-war Germany).




To say that the Jewish influence is important is not agenda-based. You have millions of Jews with German surnames. That is important in my book. That says right there that this is a big issue. I want to know if any of those Jews share my blood. You explained that Schultz was always German. So right there, I find that those two Jews are at least somewhat German. They at least have something in common with me from a genealogical standpoint. Doesn't every German-American with at least a morsel of German pride find himself constantly wondering if someone is a "German or Jew?" Even if you are right about the 19th and 20th century interbreeding, what about before that? I am only looking for the truth. I want to know who is related to me and who isn't. I am not looking for common geneaology with the Jews, but I am not going to ignore it if it is there.

More blah, blah...why don't you open a German telephone register and search by last names? Use Google and you find one quickly.

Unregistered
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 10:41 PM
Good. As an American you have the obligation to resent any form of racism or national identity other than "American"..

I don't "resent" any national identity. I just don't want any ethnic or religious based agendas from any side. I can't exist without non-Germanics. My doctor and dentist are Jewish. My lawyers are an Italian and a Pole. Some of our cops are Hispanic and our firefighters black. I expect each one of them to do their jobs and treat me with respect. In my mind I lose that authority if I choose to believe that I am different from them. I'm a member of this society just like they are, no better and no worse.


Because it is NOT the way you think it is. Unlike you, the average European, whether he is English, German, French or Polish, is not obsessed about jews. In reality most ordinary give a dam about them. Only jews think the whole day about themselves (thus: jews) and their supposed closeness".

You know who else spent all day thinking about Jews? Hitler and Himmler. Although I don't subscribe to their doctrine, don't be so foolish to think my Jewish obsession is based on idolization. If I don't know who is NOT German, then how can I ever know who IS German. My Jewish questions make more sense than you'll ever know.


You are very jewish. If you are really non-jew then you are the typical judaized American who believes that he lives in a "Great Nation", the US-military is noble and great, the CIA is our friend and that "we should rally to the flag, all Americans whether White, Black, Yellow are One Nation".

I didn't mean America so much as our government or politics. I mean America as a society. As long as I'm a member of this society, I will be an equal member of it and will not adhere to any ethnicity-based agendas. So the assumptions about the military and CIA - no. The assumptions about White Black Yellow - yes.


More blah, blah...why don't you open a German telephone register and search by last names? Use Google and you find one quickly.

You're a very smart person, but you seem incapable of digesting my point. I want to know which Americans are Jews and which are Germans. When programs mention Einstein as a famous German, I have no pride. His geneaology is different from mine. Do you see? Do you get it? I want to know if this actor is a German or a Jew. I want to know if this athlete is a German or a Jew. I want to know if this singer is a German or a Jew. My obsession with Jews is down to my German-pride, not down to any fascination with Jews. How can any Germans who have pride in their Germanic heritage not take an interest in finding out who is German? I'm begining to think I have more German-pride than you.

Hilderinc
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 11:29 PM
I want to show respect and reply to anyone who replies to me, but I have no idea what to make of this comment.

I did not mean to come off as rude, you seem to think that Germanic means only German and that this website is only about Germans, but this is not the case.

Unregistered
Saturday, December 11th, 2010, 11:43 PM
I did not mean to come off as rude, you seem to think that Germanic means only German and that this website is only about Germans, but this is not the case.

I've definitely made this thread more German than Germanic. It was unavoidable, as the Jewish question is more relevant to Germany than to any of the other Germanic nations. It's rare to come across a Jew without a German surname, so I am often left wondering if someone is a Jew or German.

Even though my pride is more German than Germanic, I know that the other Germanics are part of the family. And I've read enough to know that it is entirely possible that I share more common genes with certain Scandinavian, Dutch, British people than with certain Germans. As much as I know that, I can't seem to wrap my head around it. My focus is overwhelmingly German. I guess that's another good reason for not being a member.

Hilderinc
Sunday, December 12th, 2010, 12:37 AM
Even though my pride is more German than Germanic, I know that the other Germanics are part of the family. And I've read enough to know that it is entirely possible that I share more common genes with certain Scandinavian, Dutch, British people than with certain Germans. As much as I know that, I can't seem to wrap my head around it. My focus is overwhelmingly German. I guess that's another good reason for not being a member.

That's a good reason for becoming a member ;)

This forum isn't a Pan-Germanic forum. People here have a wide range of opinions and interests, all of which are welcomed.

velvet
Sunday, December 12th, 2010, 12:41 AM
I've definitely made this thread more German than Germanic. It was unavoidable, as the Jewish question is more relevant to Germany than to any of the other Germanic nations. It's rare to come across a Jew without a German surname, so I am often left wondering if someone is a Jew or German.

Many Jews have German sounding names because they are Yiddish. Yiddish is a German-based (with slavic and hebrew elements / characteristics in grammar) dialect that the Jews picked up / developed already very early, wiki says high middleages, but I think to have read that it was way earlier. Anyway, Yiddish was spoken by basically all Jewish enclaves in Europe, but also in the Eastern regions Russia, Ukraine etc. and is still spoken today by Jews, also in Israel.

With the growing Jewish population in the 17th century onwards again in Germany, many Jewish names were further Germanised or they took German names because they had Slavic/Russian/whatever ones, in order to 'stick less out'.


My focus is overwhelmingly German. I guess that's another good reason for not being a member.

We have even a German subforum, our member's believes range from white nationalism over pan-Germanicism to Tribalistic Anarchism and everything beyond and inbetween :shrug

We have American, NZ'er, wizards of Oz, Transilvanian Saxons, and people cought in Germanic enclaves elsewhere in the world beside the people of the obvious Germanic countries.

This board is for people with interest in their Germanic heritage and Germanic culture - and (the original) America after all is mainly comprised of Anglo-Saxons and Germans, they didnt leave their culture, their worldview behind, it served again as foundation for the new American culture (well, before it got overrun my millions of immigrants of non-Germanic / non-European background).

I'm not sure whether you'd be any more 'weird' than many other members. Usually we all, despite our vastly differing opinions, go along very well, and it is always interesting to see what different opinions are 'out there'.

The only thing not well received here is serious believes in universalism and that nonsense 'all people are equal'. Else you can very much be what you want :D

MCP3
Sunday, December 12th, 2010, 12:47 AM
You know who else spent all day thinking about Jews? Hitler and Himmler.

What makes you believe that Himmler or Hitler spent all day thinking about?
Only a jew would think that, because THEY spent apparently all day thinking about Hitler and Himmler. If you had a clue you would know that the German wartime news/newsreel rarely ever mention "the jews". Even Hitler mentioned them rarely (but more often than the news) in his speeches. England is far more often mentioned in all Hitler public speeches than the jews. And dito in his private talks, the Table Talks or the Monologues in the FHQ.
There is of course a rational explanation for this "not mentioning the jews" in the war time news: The Third Reich regarded the jewish question as temprorarily solved. If the jews were mentioned at all in the news, then they mentioned in relation to the underground war in the East, in a negative way of course. Why? Because almost every jew in Eastern Europe either supported the Communists (Red Army) directly or indirectly. Much of the jewish males who were not arrested yet fought a very vicious and cruel war of terrorism against the Wehrmacht, the local order polices and the "collaborator" administrations in Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic States.
And they were combated by Polizei, SS Einsatzgruppen and local militias such as the Ukrainian "Selbstschutz" or UPA battalions in a similar ruthless manner.



Although I don't subscribe to their doctrine, don't be so foolish to think my Jewish obsession is based on idolization. If I don't know who is NOT German, then how can I ever know who IS German. My Jewish questions make more sense than you'll ever know.

I don't know why you have this problem. It is a no-issue for ethnic Germans in Europe, most of them have anyway the Aryan certificates of their ancestors issued by the Third Reich deeply buried somewhere in the cabinet.
And the jews, whether in the US,Israel or Europe have the Concentration-Camp papers of their ancestors if they were amongst the arrested. So everyone knows basically who he is. The only one who has a problem to know who they are are people like yourself. Through and through "americanized" with no racial or ethnic roots to their ancestors. This is true for both jews and gentiles. Even the State of Israel is concerned about "assimilation" of American jews into society, that's why they have all these programs to remind all their fellow jews on the jewish identity and the State of Israel.



You're a very smart person, but you seem incapable of digesting my point. I want to know which Americans are Jews and which are Germans. When programs mention Einstein as a famous German, I have no pride.
His geneaology is different from mine. Do you see? Do you get it? I want to know if this actor is a German or a Jew.

Why are so obsessed with it? Look into the biography of the actor, then in the most cases it turns to light.

I want to know if this athlete is a German or a Jew.
Since when are jews outstanding athletes ? Only a jew would assume that.



I want to know if this singer is a German or a Jew. My obsession with Jews is down to my German-pride, not down to any fascination with Jews. How can any Germans who have pride in their Germanic heritage not take an interest in finding out who is German? I'm begining to think I have more German-pride than you.

Germanic people have a so called Second Sight by instinct. However it is lost in many Germanics who are residents of North America due to a vicious education system and a 24/7 bombardment with propaganda/commercials.

And whether you like it or not, my Second Sight identifies you as non-Germanic, with typical jewish or judaized mindset. It is very difficult for a mischling or a jew to become Germanic, but not impossible. I know at least one jew (ironically an Israeli) who i would regard as Germanic from mindset, who i declared "honory German" for lifetime.

This is Israeli dissident, musician and writer Gilad Atzmon.

Maybe, but your opinions in form of your posts are very un-German. It doesn't matter how you look. On the other hand this Jew writes very German:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t675456/
And you know what? The State of Israel calls him a "jewish self-hater".

In response i declare Gilad Atzmon to "honorary German" for lifetime.

Why thinks Gilad Atzmon "German"? I don't know, but maybe he studied Philosophy and read Hegel.


“Spirit does not toss itself about in the external play of chanceoccurrences; on the contrary, it is that which determines history absolutely, and it stands firm against the chance occurrences which it dominates and exploits for its own purpose”. (Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel 1770 – 1831)


Gilad Atzmon is not a German Jew, so genetic origins of his mindset can be excluded. From his bio:

Gilad Atzmon was born in Tel Aviv in 1963 and grew up in Jerusalem. "It was a regular secular childhood," he says, "with a right-wing Jabotinskyite grandfather. I wasn't ashamed of him, no way. I understood where he was coming from. I understood where I was coming from." Most of his military service was spent in the Air Force orchestra, after a stint as a combat medic. "In the first week of the Lebanon war in 1982 I saw a lot of wounded soldiers, but contrary to the rumors, that was not the turning point in my life. I think the big change actually started in the orchestra, when we went to Ansar, that concentration camp" - a prison built by the Israeli army in Lebanon - "and then I realized that I was in the wrong army."

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t751553-6/#post8640679

So it can't be solely a genetic issue. I suspect that education, and in Atzmon's case, the studying of Philosophy (Hegel,Kant) made the difference.
To be or not to be "German" is a matter of Spirit and mindset as well.
And the German Spirit is immortal as it is manifested in the works of Arts, Classic Music and philosophy.

SpearBrave
Sunday, December 12th, 2010, 12:57 AM
Even though my pride is more German than Germanic, I know that the other Germanics are part of the family. And I've read enough to know that it is entirely possible that I share more common genes with certain Scandinavian, Dutch, British people than with certain Germans. As much as I know that, I can't seem to wrap my head around it. My focus is overwhelmingly German. I guess that's another good reason for not being a member.

Even though I am very proud of my German ancestry and heritage I don't consider myself German. I'm a American of German decent and have much pride for some of the things America has accomplished. I do view all Germanics as having cultural similarities. If your focus is overwhelmingly on Germans that is fine to, this might be a good place for you. Here you can converse with Germanics ( that includes Germans) from around the world. I have learned much from Germans and Germanics here.:)

As far as your question about jews with German names, jews have a changed their surnames over the years to try and blend into the host population. Many Americans have German last names so I see why you would have questions concerning this.

Unregistered
Sunday, December 12th, 2010, 01:20 AM
Thank you to NorseWarrior, Velvet, and Spearbrave for making me feel welcomed.


Why are so obsessed with it? Look into the biography of the actor, then in the most cases it turns to light.

Not quite so simple. A lot of bio's don't go into ancestry.


Since when are jews outstanding athletes ? Only a jew would assume that.


Brad Ausmus was a very good baseball player. Figured he was a German. Nope. He's a Jew. There are exceptions to every rule.


Germanic people have a so called Second Sight by instinct.


Even their magic second sight would fail them here in the USA. Look at the actor Roy Scheider. Doesn't look German to me. My mother even saw him out on Long Island, which is heavily Jewish. I figured he was a Jew. Well, it turns out he's half-German, half-Italian, 0% Jewish. Could that second sight see that? I doubt it.


And whether you like it or not, my Second Sight identifies you as non-Germanic, with typical jewish or judaized mindset. It is very difficult for a mischling or a jew to become Germanic, but not impossible.


I am what I am, and whatever I am, I'm proud.

Leonhardt
Sunday, December 12th, 2010, 02:39 AM
The Teutons were recorded to have attacked northern Italy around 100 BC.
From the British history books I read, Old Germanics from the north were already moving into Germany heavily by the first century AD. The books I read considered the Boi living in Bohemia to be Celtic, not Slavic. Although, who knows if there were some Pre-Slavics in the area also.

I am not trying to push the organization, I just like the article on early Germanic history.
http://www.rnpaheadquarters.org/id37.html

Jews historically did not have last names. They could take any last name they desired, so it is difficult to identify them by surname.

According to the Jewish genealogy site Avotaynu, the third most common surname among Jews in the United States is Miller, which is also one of the most common names among gentiles.
The frequency of German family names among Russia may be due to migration from Western Europe.-Tracey R Rich
http://www.jewfaq.org/jnames.htm



Yiddish History
Beginning in the tenth century, Jews from France and Northern Italy began to establish large communities in Germany for the first time. Small communities had existed, and spoken German, for some time, but the new residents along the Rhine river arrived speaking a Jewish-French dialect known as Laaz. The new arrivals punctuated their German speech with expressions and words from Laaz; additionally, they probably reached into Scriptural and Rabbinic literature and incorporated idioms into their daily speech. Thus, a modified version of medieval German that included elements of Laaz, biblical and Mishnaic Hebrew, and Aramaic came to be the primary language of western European Jews.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/yiddish.html

Jews living in the Austrian Empire were forced to take Germanic surnames. However, some families named themselves, such as the Rothschilds. They could keep the name as long as it was German.

In January 1782 the Austrian Emperor Joseph II. enacted a new law, called the Edict of Tolerance. It’s main goal was integrate his Jewish subjects fully into the economic life of the nation, and he therefore granted them access to public education, including higher education, and to job training as apprentices and journeymen. At the same time he declared the “Jewish language and writing” as abolished: all trade books, official documents and official certificates were to be written in German from then on. On July 1787 a new ruling was published: each Jew in German lands was required to either adopt (or if they already had one, to maintain) a firm, German surname. Names derived from the Hebrew were no longer permitted, and had to be legally changed. Families with already established surnames were permitted to keep them, provided they were not Hebrew names. Given names were to be “Germanized” as well, and names that were “unknown in the German language” were no longer permitted. -Esther Bauer
http://web.me.com/ebauer/translations/page4/page4.html

25% of the Ashkenazi have Y-dna types of R1a, R1b, and I. This would most likely be explained by intermarriage.
German Jewry, before WWII, were the most assimilated Jews in the world.
In pre WWII, German Jewish intermarriage rates were approaching 50%.
http://www.jewishmag.co.il/92mag/usa13/usa13.htm

Even Jews have to debate who is Jewish or not, by reviewing their family history.
www.jewornotjew.com/

Jewish Names
http://surnames.behindthename.com/php/search.php?terms=Jewish&title=Jewish+Names&usage=yes

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=jews+german+surnames&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=jews+german+surnames&gs_rfai=&fp=8ba58d6aad98b7ff

I added a little side note while looking up information.

Germany. When Hitler came to power, Germany had 500,000 Jews. 350,000 managed to relocate. 16 – 17,000 remained after the war, half of whom were intermarried with most of the children of these being brought up as non-Jews[13].
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm

Unregistered
Tuesday, December 14th, 2010, 03:51 PM
Wow, Berthold. Now that is a lot of information, and all pertaining to exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate that.

Savant
Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 01:01 PM
"Ashkenazi" means German. Ashkenazi Jews are 85-90% white, genetically. I know that some people here wont want to acknowledge that, but it's true. The Ashkenazi originally settled along the Rhine in W. Germany/NE France. This was obviously well within the Germanic sphere of influence. Even their language, Yiddish, is a Germanic language. After Christianity, many were forced to either convert, or to move east to the slavic lands if they wanted to remain Jewish. There has been so much adimixture, intermarriage, and conversion that they only have trace amounts of semitic DNA. "Jew" is not, and has not for a very long time been a racial distinction. It is a religious or cultural distinction. I know lot's of people here are going to hate it, but the genetic fact are that Ashkenazi Jews, at least genetically, are primarily a Germanic people.


There are things about the Jews that are baffling to me, and I can find no source of reference to explain them.

I'm an American, and I have known many Jews. I cannot understand why seemingly 9 out of every 10 have a German surname. These Jews tell me that their family trees go back to Russia, Poland, and the Ukraine, yet they have surnames like Mulbauer, Berlin, and Liebmann. Why wouldn't they have Slavic surnames? Did their ancestors leave Germany for the east as part of the German diaspora?

Also, why are so many Jews of European ancestry pale often with red hair? These Ashkenazim Jews seem to have absolutely nothing genetically in common with the Jews whose ancestors stayed in Palestine/Israel for the last several hundred years. Regardless of how much the Jews may've bred with Germanics, I see no way that such a union could create the current form of Ashkenazim Jews.

I'd also like some kind of timeline of the Jews in Germany. A post here by a very knowledgable member, says that Slavs inhabited Germany up until the 6th or 7th century, at which time the Germanics took over. When did the Jews appear there? Just how much of a genetic influence did they leave on Germans?

But in the early 20th century, even in most Germanic regions of central Europe there were still only a mere 5% of Jews marrying non-Jews. However, the picture was quite different in other locations; the figure was 18% for Berlin, and during the same period, nearly half of all Jews in Australia intermarried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interfaith_marriage_in_Judaism (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikip edia.org%2Fwiki%2FInterfaith_marriage_in _Judaism)

Whoops, not quite looks like...


Schäfer/Schaefer and Schulze are absolute German and not jewish, Schneider or Rosenberg can be both. For a jew to acquire the names Schulze or Schaefer would signal intermarriage in a previous generation. Also many diaspora Germans can trace their ancestry back to Eastern Europe, the Baltic States or the Russian Empire. During Vertreibung, which was not limited to the Germans inside the borders of the Reich, but also hit the Baltic Germans, the Ukrainian Germans (meritocrats often), the Transilvanian Siebenbürgers and so forth.

You claim to have "German" ancestry, but why don't you register then, and why do imply obvious nonsense:

In my book you typical jewish, you even admit it indirectly (see bold marked).

The jews have/had NO genetically impact on the Germans, because intermarriage was all throughout the 19th and up to the mid of the 20th a "taboo" for both sides. During the Third Reich time it was verboten anyway. There was however a certain jewish influence on German culture, science and literature from the mid 19th century up to 1933.

The problem with the jews in the Third Reich was less with the German jews, EKI winners and jewish veterans of the German Army were generally exempted from any antisemitic legislature and stood under the personal protection of Adolf Hitler (at least in theory) , but with jewish immigrants from Poland. The term "Galician jew" is common up to the day in Germany. It refers to a slimy cheater, criminal, pimp and/or fraudster who talks with Yiddish accent. A good description of the "Galician jew" is offered in Mein Kampf. These were the guys who dominated as street merchants, pimps and illegal gambling the streets of Vienna and angered the young Art-student Adolf Hitler who himself had nothing and could not even afford to rent an apartment.

It is plain on view that Allied propaganda as well as Polish/EE jewry here as well distort the picture.

Unregistered
Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 03:43 PM
"Ashkenazi" means German. Ashkenazi Jews are 85-90% white, genetically. I know that some people here wont want to acknowledge that, but it's true. The Ashkenazi originally settled along the Rhine in W. Germany/NE France. This was obviously well within the Germanic sphere of influence. Even their language, Yiddish, is a Germanic language. After Christianity, many were forced to either convert, or to move east to the slavic lands if they wanted to remain Jewish. There has been so much adimixture, intermarriage, and conversion that they only have trace amounts of semitic DNA. "Jew" is not, and has not for a very long time been a racial distinction. It is a religious or cultural distinction. I know lot's of people here are going to hate it, but the genetic fact are that Ashkenazi Jews, at least genetically, are primarily a Germanic people.

When I look at Donny Deutsch or a young William Shatner, I'd agree with your theory. But the fact is there is a large percentage of the Jewish population who have a distinct "Jewish" appearance that looks anything but Germanic. Jerry Seinfeld, Ed Koch, and Annabelle Gurwitch are examples of people who, while not appearing middle-eastern in the least, all appear Jewish. They seem to have little in common with middle-easterners or Germanics.

Savant
Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 06:29 PM
Seinfeld is a Sephardic Jew, not Ashkenazi. I don't know who the other people are you named. But yeah, some are descendant from Khazars which were part slavic, part germanic, and mostly Anatolian/Hittite. However, many jews with that seinfeld look are Sephardic jews.

The phenotype you are referring to most likely descends from the Hittite group IMO:

http://www.aryannationsrevival.org/HittiteHooknose.JPG

http://blogs.nyu.edu/blogs/hg26/amnhphotographs/Hittite%20Goddess%20cropped.jpg




When I look at Donny Deutsch or a young William Shatner, I'd agree with your theory. But the fact is there is a large percentage of the Jewish population who have a distinct "Jewish" appearance that looks anything but Germanic. Jerry Seinfeld, Ed Koch, and Annabelle Gurwitch are examples of people who, while not appearing middle-eastern in the least, all appear Jewish. They seem to have little in common with middle-easterners or Germanics.

Unregistered
Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 07:28 PM
Seinfeld is a Sephardic Jew, not Ashkenazi.

I had to check that out, because "Seinfeld" is obviously a variation of a German surname. Wikipedia lists his father as an Austrian Jew and his mother a Syrian Jew. They classify him as a "Mizrahi" (not Sephardic) Jew after his mother. Regardless, he is not full Ashkenazi, so he would not be a good example of how many Ashkenazim do not appear Germanic.

Koch and Gurwitch both have scores of pics on Google Images. The fact is most Jews are Ashkenazi - hence the German surnames, and lot of them look typically "Jewish". You may be right about the DNA and such, but even if the Ashkenazim are primarily Germanic, I think certain aspects of their DNA, wehn compared to Germans, would be much different, possibly due to the possible-Khazar ancestry you mentioned.

Savant
Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 10:49 PM
Obviously it varies from Ashkenazi Jew to Ashkenazi Jew. On average, they are 80-90% European (from what I have seen). Admittedly there is some speculation on my part, but I'd imagine that much of those european haplotypes are Germanic. I have looked at a couple of Jewish genetic studies, but I didn't grind thru most the hard data, just read the abstracts, etc. Often times, particularly in the case of genetic studies, you will find lots of "spin" in the abstracts & conclusions, and when you actually grind thru the quantitative data it paints a fairly different picture. Here's one piece I read through which concludes that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically most similar to ethnic Italians.

http://lalqila.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/dna-proof-that-the-eastern-european-jew-ashkenazi-jew-has-no-semitic-link-to-palestine-so-the-claim-to-stealing-the-homes-lands-and-orchards-of-the-palestinians-is-totally-bogus-just-like-almost/




I had to check that out, because "Seinfeld" is obviously a variation of a German surname. Wikipedia lists his father as an Austrian Jew and his mother a Syrian Jew. They classify him as a "Mizrahi" (not Sephardic) Jew after his mother. Regardless, he is not full Ashkenazi, so he would not be a good example of how many Ashkenazim do not appear Germanic.

Koch and Gurwitch both have scores of pics on Google Images. The fact is most Jews are Ashkenazi - hence the German surnames, and lot of them look typically "Jewish". You may be right about the DNA and such, but even if the Ashkenazim are primarily Germanic, I think certain aspects of their DNA, wehn compared to Germans, would be much different, possibly due to the possible-Khazar ancestry you mentioned.

Unregistered
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 01:36 PM
Here's one piece I read through which concludes that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically most similar to ethnic Italians.

http://lalqila.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/dna-proof-that-the-eastern-european-jew-ashkenazi-jew-has-no-semitic-link-to-palestine-so-the-claim-to-stealing-the-homes-lands-and-orchards-of-the-palestinians-is-totally-bogus-just-like-almost/

I've definitely seen my share of Jews that can pass for Italians, so it makes sense to me that some Ashkenazim have that ancestry. However, there is a certain look among Ashkenazim that I find most perplexing. This is the combination of very pale skin and red hair: Marilu Henner, Debra Messing, Annabelle Gurwitch to name three. Nothing remotely Italian or Germanic about them.

Sigurd
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 04:54 PM
Since when are jews outstanding athletes ? Only a jew would assume that.

Jewish American sportspeople (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_sportspeople) and generally Jews in Sports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jews_in_sports), some of them are Olympic champions etc.

Some of them were obvious by look and name, however how would the unschooled eye have figured on either account Morgan Pressel (US women's golfer), or Sarah Poewe (SA Jewish swimmer competing for Germany), for being Jews?

[harmonious pictures chosen on purpose to confuse people further. :P]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Morgan_Pressel_2009-06-08.jpg
http://svbayer.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/afi_5814web1.jpg

Knowing that they're Jewish I can detect a few features pointing towards that (Poewe looks a little like a quarter Jewish girl that frequented the local Metal scene a few years ago, Pressel has the "perhaps, perhaps not" look), but without the knowledge --- and certainly by the names that could be either/or I would have perhaps given them the benefit of doubt without knowledge as even though they do look "somewhat Jewish", they have the same problem that females have in general: Features less pronounced = harder to pin down anything. :shrug

So it really means you'll have to more or less learn them off by heart. I think I might be convinced to post a thread with Jewish sportspeople for folks to know whom not to cheer for, some of which are shocking to hear about, if I find some time on my hands. ;)