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ulfrik
Sunday, November 21st, 2010, 11:06 AM
does odin come back after ragnarok?
some texts suggest that he does.
(from the gylfaginning) "he lives for ever and ever, and rules over the whole of his kingdom"
(and) "righteous men shall live and be with him(odin)where it is called gimle"
gimle after ragnarok.
(voluspa) " now rides the strong one to rainbow door,powerful from heaven,the all-ruler". this could have been added by christians to mean christ. or it could be odin returning to rule all.
(odins korpgalder) it suggest odin is reforming the universe. 'allfather acts".

baldr will rule the new heven and new earth.
then if baldr comes back ,then why not other gods?

however after ragnarok it could be that odin is looking down from above on his son.
baldr will rule a new valhalla(gimle)

what are your thoughts?

velvet
Sunday, November 21st, 2010, 12:14 PM
As far as I understand the texts, Odin will not come back.

Basically none of the gods will return, they will heir their attributes to a new generation of gods. Baldr carries Odin's runes and wisdom into the new world, the sons of Thor will get the hammer and so on.

The genealogy of the gods is an expression of evolution, old generations must make room for new generations. Ragnarök is a way more drastic cut of this genealogy though than what happened until then. Some of the Ćsir in fact are giants (Loki, Thor) (compare Greek mythology from the Titans to the gods of the Olymp, the rawer, older, more archaic ones make room for new, refined ones), and like with human evolution, gods evolved.

Now, Baldr is already dead, while the sons of Thor are not. Where it becomes difficult to determine which factor makes them return. During the Weltenbrand everything dies, just one pair of humans survives and Baldr is said to be there too, and the blind Högr (who killed Baldr). But since also the nine worlds burn in that Weltenbrand, including Hel and even Nidhöggr dies at the end (though after the Weltenbrand and still goes and fetches all remaining souls, dives into the underworld and only then dies), this should not be thought of as a continuation in any way of "life as we know it".

While the Ragnarök story probably is very old, the last paragraph where it tells about the new world arising, is definitely a christian addition, all this salvation stuff is very un-pagan, so the entire thing as far as it refers to after-Ragnarök can be questioned.

I believe that Ragnarök indeed referred originally to the life cycle of our galaxy or solar system. In some billion years the sun will become a gas giant and eat up the solar system (literally, gas giants easily become the size of a solar system), the earth and everything that then still lives (which is most likely not more than bacteries at this point) will burn. IF from there on 'new life' will arise, it will have to go through the entire evolution thingy once more. The Indic Vedas also refer to the cosmos, not to 'life' and even less to humans. Ragnarök makes way more sense in the context of the galaxy / the cosmos than it does in the context of life.

Ulfvaldr
Sunday, November 21st, 2010, 06:51 PM
I really don't believe he, or any of the other Gods for that matter, can die, I think they will ascend to a higher existence, and will be replaced by other newer Gods. :D

ulfrik
Monday, November 22nd, 2010, 01:57 AM
the concept of a new world after ragnarok it's not totaly un pagan.
balder returns, not jesus. and the sons of the gods are the gods of the new world.

as it says here in this essay by Alan J. Seeger http://www.spiritpathways.com/ragna.html
quote-
"This magnificent cosmological vision, which expresses both poetic and karmic justice, does not, however, end with a Christian otherworldly millennial scenario; rather, it concludes with a return of earth-based polytheism. Since this pagan revival has not yet happened on a large scale ... it cannot be that the prophecies of the Eddas refer only to the coming of Christianity. Rather, they may reach forward in time to the twentieth century, or even beyond."

in the poem odin's korp galdr it suggest odin is arond after ragnarok and is reforming the universe. http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/odin/odin-27.htm

Ocko
Monday, November 22nd, 2010, 02:05 AM
If one calls upon one of the Gods, they answer, that is they are not dead.

I also think that Gods can't die, at least not as long the universe or the realm they live in is intact.

Rudolf Steiner once said that Odin declined to get to the next level of Gods because he wanted to help his kinsmen to evolve.

I also think one shouldn't think with the understanding from earth were all life obviously goes through some form of transformation.

As we all have different lifetimes, something continues to exist. It seems to be the same with the Gods.

We also don't know what part transforms (dies).

With humans it is certainly the body, may be the formgiving part, the essence and personality propably continues to exist, the soulpart of a human cannot die.

What goes to Hel and what goes anywhere else I don't know.

The body, or its elements (atoms) certainly has an eternity of itself.

thirsty
Monday, November 22nd, 2010, 02:17 AM
Steiner says at the end of "Missions of the Folk Soul" that the remaining Norse God is one called 'Vidar'.

Here is the google book page of the relevant section:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=6zpo2yA9FjMC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=vidar+steiner&source=bl&ots=p3LW9UFxKn&sig=GZRQpvtcH29NPHoYBM6YbMaAS5I&hl=en&ei=RtLpTPTDN4K8sQOJvpixCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=vidar%20steiner&f=false

Hope that helps. :thumbup

Ćlfrun
Monday, November 22nd, 2010, 02:53 AM
I do not believe that the Gods really die as well. Death is another name for being reborn or growth.

Halfr
Thursday, November 25th, 2010, 07:15 PM
The scant sources(Völuspá mainly) suggest an underlying critique of parts of Norse society. No sources tell us the whole story, but parts reflect a return to the golden age, and even more so: An age where brothers reign together.
Odin is not mentioned as part of this rebirth, nor are most other gods. Some Scholars suggest that Heimdall might play some sort of underlying role in the whole thing, but this is largely based on assumption.