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Ocko
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 02:31 PM
Probably the same Ashkenazi jews who own the MSM and infest our universities. As the character of that vermin is known why would anyone believe them.

Their conspiracy theories like 9-11 or the Holocaust are so damn pathetic dumb and easy to disprove that the rest they say, f.ex. jewish IQ, is equally suspiciously rubbish to me. If you want to trust a snake then it reflects more on your own IQ.

In Germany we have a saying: Wer einmal luegt, dem glaubt man nicht, One who lies one time is not to be trusted. With Jews lieing constantly why would anybody trust them?

I am also pretty curious about your stance on german preservation while defending declared enemies of our aim.

SaxonPagan
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 02:46 PM
WW, what the "Truthers" are saying has not been disproved!

Some examples ...

* Tower 7 announced as having fallen 1/2 hour in advance.
* The vertical collapse of the towers into their own footprint (demolition for sure!)
* All those who heard very loud bangs coming from the basements
* Hole in Pentagon barely wide enough for me to get my car through, never mind a passenger plane! No plane debris outside Pentagon either and CCTV footage from surrounding premises all confiscated!
* Debris from WTC taken away straight afterwards (very fishy!) but they still managed to find those Arab passports somewhere in there - strange, eh? ;) Some of those named as perpetrators have even turned up alive since!
* Air Defences stood down DELIBERATELY (at least I hope so because if they can't protect NY from 4 passenger planes they'll never stop the Russians) :D
* How did a few Arabs armed with little more than wire cutters take over 4 aircraft? You'd have thought at least one if not ALL attempts would have been foiled. Even I know that pilots can put a threatened plane into an immediate roll that would have knocked them all over.
* No black box recordings ever released - this really says it all for me!!!!

BTW, I typed the above in approx. 3 minutes off the top of my head so there may be some "weak links" you will concentrate on, but that's okay because I could easily list another 50+ discrepancies. If choosing to reply, please keep it factual and free of emotion. This has been the ploy of the cover-up merchants for the past 10 years ... "we can't hold an enquiry it would be far too upsetting" :( This whole thing has become another Holocaust™ where any rational questions are drowned out by (fake) emotional reactions such as "how could you insult the victims?"

Not saying you'll do this of course, WW, I'm just saying what the usual tactics are to stifle the truth and yet despite this a majority of Americans now think there's something very wrong with the official version!

SaxonPagan
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 02:58 PM
we've each told our sides so let's end this discussion here

But we haven't :confused

You just said you'd examined all the evidence and that there was NO TRUTH IN ALL THE THEORIES (your capitals and emphasis).

You provided no further details other than this, WW, and this is precisely the point I've been making on here for several days now! Myself and Ocko have backed up the claim we are making but you just said "there's no truth in this" and we get the usual "conspiracy theory" claims based on raw emotion but no facts!!!!

flâneur
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 03:13 PM
Well i and somebody else just had our posts deletad from another thread for probably going off topic and discussing the 9/11 twin towers/WTC whatever you want to call it events.
Anyway some interesting points have come out and i would like to hear what you think about the 9/11 events.

I was talking last week to a guy in Italy who was in the second tower that was hit on one of the lower floors,and he says he thought they were brought down by explosives.
He said he heard a few earth shattering explosions that only people who were there have talked about,and he has never seen or heard on any documentry since.
He told me it was as if the entire structure was being shaken by these dull bangs.
The man in question is a commodoties broker and quite unmoved by the events and talked about it in a detatched manner,quite articulate and relates his experience in the affair without getting wotrked up or bursting into tears etc.I have known him for quite a while and he seems an honest enough guy.

As for the pentagon,well i would like to think that it is surrounded by all sorts of cctv night and day and that they should come up with something better than the shaky film they released.
I mean the zapruda filming of the Kennedy assasination looks like Ben Hur compared to what the pentagon released of the strike.
As for the eye witnesses....well i was on a beach in Sydney a few years back and a swimmer emerged from the sea shouting at the top of his lungs "Shark...shark".
So the lifeguards got everyone out of the water and slowly and like an oil spill the rumors of a shark got bigger and bigger and then people started saying a shark had attacked a swimmer and the shark was five metres long etc etc.
In the end the surf patrol guys fished out a three foot long dead dolphin.
So much for eye witness accounts.

The plane that crashed into the open field in Pennsylvania.

I have seen a plane crash and saw the aftermath....and that hole in the ground doesnt look to me like an airliner came down there.
The carnage and wreckage of a real aeroplane crash is horrific....and massive.

Thoughts...?

Wynterwade
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 03:19 PM
WTC 7

The report concluded that the building's collapse was due to the effects of the fires which burned for almost seven hours. The fatal blow to the building came when the 13th floor collapsed, weakening a critical steel support column that led to catastrophic failure, and extreme heat caused some steel beams to lose strength, causing further failures throughout the buildings until the entire structure succumbed. Also cited as a factor was the collapse of the nearby towers, which broke the city water main, leaving the sprinkler system in the bottom half of the building without water.
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Pentagon

There is a freeway near the Pentagon and guess what- there was rush hour bumper to bumper traffic with hundreds of eyewitnesses that saw the impact with their own eyes. In fact they've signed a petition saying that they saw a commercial airliner hit the Pentagon. Airplane debris including Flight 77's black boxes, the nose cone, landing gear, an airplane tire, the fuselage, and an intact cockpit seat were observed at the crash site. The remains of passengers from Flight 77 were found at the Pentagon crash site and their identities confirmed by DNA analysis.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pennsylvania

The flight impacted at 563 miles per hour (906 km/h) at a 40 degree nose-down, inverted attitude.[19] The impact left a crater eight to ten feet deep (c. 3 m), and 30 to 50 feet wide (c. 12 m).[57] All 44 people died. A fireball that witnesses said shot several hundred feet into the air after the jetliner crashed.

Why is the Pennsylvania crash different than any other plane crash you've ever seen? Because you've never seen one crash this fast before and pointed at such an extreme angle towards the ground.

flâneur
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 03:32 PM
WTC 7

The report concluded that the building's collapse was due to the effects of the fires which burned for almost seven hours.

The first ever high rise building to collapse because of fire damage...mmmm

The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss.
It didnt fall.

Wynterwade
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by TommyAtkins
It (First Interstate Bank Building) didnt fall.

#1) The First Interstate Bank Building probably had a sprinkler system. While the WTC 7 didn't.


Also cited as a factor was the collapse of the nearby towers, which broke the city water main, leaving the sprinkler system in the bottom half of the (WTC 7) building without water.

#2) Not to mention the firefighters in the First Interstate Bank Building,

Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire (in the First Interstate Bank Building), and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above.

Conclusion- It isn't reasonable to compare the two buildings in the way you have because the situations are completely different in each.

SaxonPagan
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 04:05 PM
Just found this topic and the beginning (with my opening post) looks a bit disjointed as it's been moved from another thread, but thanks to whoever did that :)

So, WW, what are these reports you're quoting then? If you're just repeating the "official" ones then they add little credibility to your case because the government will naturally bring out reports to corroborate its own story! You really haven't addressed any of the serious questions though, have you?

And there were some "eyewitnesses", you say? Are we seriously supposed to just accept this at face value whilst they confiscate all the CCTV footage and refuse to release the black box recordings containing the PROOF ... it's almost laughable!!!!

You also initially claimed to have spent dozens of hours examining all the evidence and that there was no doubt whatsoever about the events of 9/11, yet now you seem to be scratching round on the Internet for some stuff about sprinkler systems :confused

Wulfram
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 04:15 PM
There are so many WEIRD anomalies associated I don't even know where to begin, so I will list a few basics for now.
The following have been culled from various sites:

The Pentagon

The Pentagon was left undefended until after being hit at 9:38:
The Pentagon should be the best-defended building in the world.
The Pentagon was hit more than 80 minutes into the attack.
It is a mere 10 miles from Andrews Air Force Base.
Cheney watched the attack plane approach from 50 miles out.
The attack targeted Wedge 1 of Pentagon's west wing:
Wedge 1 was sparsely occupied, nearing completion of renovation.
Wedge 1 was the only one that had blast-hardened walls.
The top brass was in the opposite side of the Pentagon.
The alleged suicide pilots lacked the requisite piloting skills:
The attack maneuver required extreme piloting skill.
None of the alleged hijackers had flown jets.
Hani Hanjour, alleged pilot of Flight 77, was a notoriously bad pilot.

Military's Non-Response

The official story posits a long series of improbable failures:
The official timelines blame the FAA for inexplicably long delays in notifying the military, after originally claiming to have been notified sooner but without specific locations.
Jets were not scrambled from nearest bases.
Jets in the air were not vectored to intercept jetliners.
According to NORAD and 9/11 Commission timelines, military jets flew at small fractions of their top speeds.
Claims that hijacked jetliners couldn't be tracked contrasts with ability of the FAA to land over 4000 aircraft at different destinations in two hours.
At least four simultaneous war game exercises were being conducted on 9/11/01:
The NRO exercise involved a plane-crash-into-building scenario.
Operations Vigilant Warrior and Vigilant Guardian used scenarios involving hijacked passenger planes.
After presiding over the worst air defense failure in US history, the commander of NORAD, head of the Joint Chiefs, and Secretary of Defense were awarded with promotions and budget increases.

Total Collapse of WTC Building 7

Is the only case of total collapse of large steel-framed high-rise building blamed on fire.
The collapse had all of the features of a controlled demolition implosion:
It fell straight down with precise radial symmetry.
Its rapid fall was within 10 percent of gravitational free-fall speed.
It collapsed into a tidy rubble pile mostly within the block that the building occupied.

Total Destruction of the Twin Towers

Symmetry and thoroughness of destruction rules out natural processes.
Dozens of firefighters described explosions and likened the falls of the Towers to controlled demolitions.
Destruction exhibited main features of controlled demolitions:
The destruction was total, leaving no parts of the Towers intact.
The falls began precipitously after loud explosions were heard.
Energetic jets of gas and dust emerged from the facade.
Destruction was more thorough than conventional demolitions:
The explosions of Towers were up to 800 feet in diameter.
The rubble was shards of metal and dust.
More than 1000 bodies were "vaporized".
Extreme temperatures persisted in the rubble for three months.
Dust contains residues of explosives:
Abundant minute iron-rich spheroids match the structure and chemical composition of thermite by-products.
Chips consistently found in samples are a nano-engineered thermitic material the the physical structure, chemical composition, and thermal behavior of a high-tech pyrotechnic with high explosive power.

Suppression and Destruction of Evidence

The World Trade Center steel was systematically destroyed:
Controlled Demolition Inc's plan for recycling steel was submitted 11 days after the attack, and approved.
Most of the steel was shipped to Asia for recycling.
Investigators were barred from the crime scene, and saw little of the steel.
Scores of videos from around Pentagon were confiscated and never released.
The NTSB was not allowed to investigate crashes.

Overt Omissions in Official Reports

The 9/11 Commission made hundreds of glaring omissions:
The Report makes no mention of Building 7.
It called the structural cores of Twin Towers "hollow steel shaft[s]."
It did not mention the privatization of the World Trade Center six weeks before the attack.
NIST avoided the core issue of the 'collapses':
It did not consider events beyond when the Towers were "poised for collapse."
It did not demonstrate that computer models predicted "collapse initiation."
NIST disingenuously evaded calls to test for explosive residues.

Wynterwade
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 04:28 PM
If you're just repeating the "official" ones then they add little credibility to your case because the government will naturally bring out reports to corroborate its own story!

I did all the research when I was younger and all the unofficial evidence I found pointed clearly to the official story as being true.

The holy grails in evidence that I would point to are...
1) unbiased witness accounts,
2) people who saw the pentagon crash from the freeway
3) people who saw first hand the Pennsylvania crash
4) phone calls from the hijacked airplanes
5) photos of the pieces of airplane parts within the pentagon
6) the DNA evidence of the passengers in the Pentagon
7) unofficial engineer studies,
8) Academic professionals who counter conspiracy theories
9) A documentry on Fox News against conspiracy theories
..........the list goes on and on and is really massive.............

All of these are available on the internet, though they are usually hidden behind the conspiracy theorists articles and videos (who make money off it and spend some of it publicizing their stories to bring them ahead of the list I've given in the search engines).


yet now you seem to be scratching round on the Internet for some stuff about sprinkler systems
I posted the information about the sprinkler system and firefighters because it disproves your argument that because both buildings are in a similar situation then WTC 7 shouldn't have fallen. I disproved your argument because the situation wasn't actually the same within the two buildings like you thought.

I am sorry but I don't have time to check every single one of your posts anymore- it would take me all day- I have too much homework today.

Bittereinder
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 04:35 PM
This film highlights many of the points made thus far with some images to back it up.


-3719259008768610598#

http://www.loosechangethefinalcut.com/notusa.html

Wynterwade
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 04:41 PM
Here is all the information you need to know about Loose Change the movie posted above by Grimner.

Journalists,[42][43][44] researchers,[8][45] as well as scientists and engineers,[10] and members of the 9/11 Truth movement have spoken out against the film's claims about the September 11 attacks.[9]
Loose Change has been subject to criticism from a variety of different sources. In March 2007, the United States Department of State published an article called "Loose Change Debunked" in which it says that the movie makes "sloppy mistakes".[46] The article is highly critical of the evidence cited to support the claim that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, and it criticizes the controlled demolition hypothesis of the World Trade Center claiming that "Demolition professionals say controlled demolition of the Towers that day would have been impossible." The article goes on to say:
"It treats statements made at this time as if they represent reasoned judgments, not impromptu, often poorly thought-through misimpressions and uninformed speculation... In sum, Loose Change is researched very shoddily, making numerous mistakes of fact and judgment. Nevertheless, this has not prevented it from becoming extraordinarily popular."[46]
It goes on to note that Loose Change has also been criticized by other members of the 9/11 Truth Movement, referencing the critique entitled Sifting Through Loose Change.[9] Michael Green, a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement, has analyzed the film and is critical of many of its claims and methods.[47] Several independent researchers have also written critiques of the film. The Loose Change Guide,[48] created by Mark Roberts, features the whole transcript of the show, along with his comments and criticisms. Roberts also compiled a lengthy selection of interview quotes in which the Loose Change creators elaborate on the claims made in the film.[49]
In May 2006, the blog Screw Loose Change was created to criticize the claims in the film.[50] In collaboration with the creators of the blog and drawing upon the work of Mark Roberts, Mark Iradian prepared an edited version of Loose Change which he subtitled with criticisms.[51] Another analysis of the film has been created by the Internet Detectives.[52] Many of the critiques argue that Loose Change quote mines, uses unreliable or out-of-date sources, and cherry-picks evidence to claim that there are serious problems with official accounts of the events of September 11.[41][47][50][51][52]
One of the many aspects focused on by these critiques is Loose Change's analysis of the collapse of the World Trade Center. The comparison to other notable high-rise fires which did not lead to collapse ignores differences in building design, significant WTC structural damage and compromised fireproofing;[41][53] as most steel loses over half its strength at 600°C (1112°F).[54][55] The comparison with Madrid's Windsor Tower fails to note its steel-supported perimeter floors that collapsed during the fire.[56] Kevin Ryan, described by Loose Change as working for Underwriters Laboratories (UL), was actually employed in a water-testing subsidiary.[41] Furthermore, UL does not certify structural steel,[41] and ASTM E119 certification is not meant to predict performance in real uncontrolled fires.[57] The NIST found no evidence of any firm having conducted tests on WTC materials in the past.[58] Another expert quoted, Van Romero, has clarified that he was misquoted by the Albuquerque Journal; he had actually said that it "looked like" explosives took down the WTC. When the misquote was printed, he felt his "scientific reputation was on the line."[55]
On September 11, 2006, Democracy Now! broadcast a discussion between the Loose Change creators and editors from Popular Mechanics, where they debated various aspects of the documentary.[41] Jason Bermas claimed flight 93 did not crash into the field, calling Popular Mechanics a Hearst yellow journalism lie publication. "There’s no plane in this open field at all. There’s a ten-foot crater by 16-foot, and there’s just smoke there. So where is this plane?" Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone wrote that the 9/11 Truth Movement: "gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes."[31]
George Monbiot, political activist and columnist for the Guardian, wrote an article on the improbability of the conspiracies cited in Loose Change,[59] and then wrote a follow-up article in response to negative comments from some of his readers.[60] On SModcast, Kevin Smith discussed Loose Change and other conspiracy videos about aliens and various things. However, he maintains that he enjoys the film purely as entertainment, and does not believe or agree with the theories presented in the film.[61] Popular satirical site, The Best Page in the Universe, parodied the movie with a short video "Unfastened Coins",[62] which "exposed" a Titanic-sinking conspiracy, and an article mocking the logic of conspiracy theories in the film.[63] The History Channel aired a two-hour episode on August 20, 2007, entitled "The 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction?" featuring interviews with the creators of Loose Change.[64]
In Britain, BBC's documentary television show Conspiracy files aired two documentaries focused on 9/11 and the conspiracy theories surrounding the collapse of WTC7. Several claims made by Loose Change were investigated and specifically rebuked. Dylan Avery was interviewed for the program, which cast him in a negative light.

For References Check this wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

SaxonPagan
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 04:46 PM
Oi, I thought you were supposed to be doing your homework!? :|

(I even sent you a 'thanks' wishing you good luck with this!)

Wulfram
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 04:48 PM
Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse

Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things.

The One Meridian Plaza Fire

One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire started on the 22nd floor and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss. It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century".

The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed.

The First Interstate Bank Fire

The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss.

A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:
In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans.

The 1 New York Plaza Fire

1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours.

Caracas Tower Fire

The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began before midnight on the 34th floor, spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters.

Lax enforcement of fire codes in Venezuela was blamed for the malfunctioning of water pumps and a lack of fire extinguishers inside of the building. Because the building was empty when the fire broke out, no civilians were killed or injured.

The Windsor Building fire

A more recent case of a severe high-rise fire is the one that destroyed the Windsor Building in Madrid, Spain on February 12, 2005. The Windsor fire was more severe than any of the fires described above, and the incident has been widely publicized, with comparisons to the fires in the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11/01. However, the Windsor Building, unlike all the buildings mentioned above, was framed in steel-reinforced concrete rather than steel. Hence it is described on a separate page, which notes differences between the response of these different types of structures to fires.

The Hotel Mandarin Oriental blazes

The most recent example of a spectacular skyscraper fire was the burning of the Hotel Mandarin Oriental starting on February 9, 2009. The nearly completed 520-foot-tall skyscraper in Beijing caught fire around 8:00 pm, was engulfed within 20 minutes, and burned for at least 3 hours until midnight. Despite the fact that the fire extended across all of the floors for a period of time and burned out of control for hours, no large portion of the structure collapsed.

The spectacular torching of the Mandarin tower further underscores the anomalous nature of the official explanation of the total collapse of the Twin Towers and WTC 7 -- an explanation that primarily blames fires for causing the "global collapse" of those structures. It is yet another example of a severe fire that failed to induce even the partial collapse of a skyscraper. Although less similar to the WTC towers than other skyscrapers ravaged by fires, the Mandarin tower is notable for the magnitude of the fire it withstood -- a fire that dwarfed the fires that preceded the "collapses" of each of the the WTC skyscrapers.

Coming exactly 2711 days after 9/11/2001, the burning of the Hotel Mandarin Oriental, which was unoccupied pending its completion, killed one firefighter.


It is tempting to draw parallels between this spectacle and the destruction of WTC 1, 2, and 7 because of the stark opposites: on 9/11/01, three skyscrapers were transformed into piles of rubble primarily as a consequence, supposedly, of fires -- fires spanning small fractions of each building; and on 2/09/09, a skyscraper remained intact after burning like a torch for hours. However such parallels may be limited by major structural differences between the buildings in the two cases -- one being that the Hotel Mandarin Oriental, designed by the famous Dutch architect Rem Koolhaas, had a full-height interior atrium, and thus had the hollowness that the 9-11 Commission deceptively attempted to attribute to the Twin Towers.

Ocko
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:00 PM
The article is highly critical of the evidence cited to support the claim that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, and it criticizes the controlled demolition hypothesis of the World Trade Center claiming that "Demolition professionals say controlled demolition of the Towers that day would have been impossible."

As usual just statements and diffusion but no facts.

'demolition experts', yeah right, might be the jews who brought it down, I am btw a 'jew expert' and my statement is: 'it is obviously a jewjob, sloppy cover-up, cheap jobperformance'

So why could it not be a demolition 'that day'. What makes it impossible? Can you put some meat to your statement?

Or do we get just further statements from obscure sources and no facts or valid arguments?

flâneur
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:08 PM
3) people who saw first hand the Pennsylvania crash


Its the Pennsylvania crash that puzzles me most of all.


Pennsylvania,a jet airliner crashes into an open field and dissintigrates into nothing.....just gets totally devoured by the earth.No tail section,no engines,no wings....nothing.
You have to be pretty gullible or pretty stupid or both to believe that one.

Just show me one of the hundreds of jet airliner crash sites throughout aviation history that is comparible....just one.

Landers
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:11 PM
Either inside job or at the very least, they let it happen. Best books are by David Ray Griffin. But then, you've got firefighters and all kinds of other reputable people supporting the fact that something dodgy happened. The caliber for those that think something is fishy is very high.

When I really started looking into this, this is how I felt...

http://b.imagehost.org/0472/pictures_vand_damme_acting.gif

Bittereinder
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:30 PM
Here is all the information you need to know about Loose Change the movie posted above by Grimner.

Journalists,[42][43][44] researchers,[8][45] as well as scientists and engineers,[10] and members of the 9/11 Truth movement have spoken out against the film's claims about the September 11 attacks.[9]
Loose Change has been subject to criticism from a variety of different sources. In March 2007, the United States Department of State published an article called "Loose Change Debunked" in which it says that the movie makes "sloppy mistakes".[46] The article is highly critical of the evidence cited to support the claim that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, and it criticizes the controlled demolition hypothesis of the World Trade Center claiming that "Demolition professionals say controlled demolition of the Towers that day would have been impossible." The article goes on to say:
"It treats statements made at this time as if they represent reasoned judgments, not impromptu, often poorly thought-through misimpressions and uninformed speculation... In sum, Loose Change is researched very shoddily, making numerous mistakes of fact and judgment. Nevertheless, this has not prevented it from becoming extraordinarily popular."[46]
It goes on to note that Loose Change has also been criticized by other members of the 9/11 Truth Movement, referencing the critique entitled Sifting Through Loose Change.[9] Michael Green, a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement, has analyzed the film and is critical of many of its claims and methods.[47] Several independent researchers have also written critiques of the film. The Loose Change Guide,[48] created by Mark Roberts, features the whole transcript of the show, along with his comments and criticisms. Roberts also compiled a lengthy selection of interview quotes in which the Loose Change creators elaborate on the claims made in the film.[49]
In May 2006, the blog Screw Loose Change was created to criticize the claims in the film.[50] In collaboration with the creators of the blog and drawing upon the work of Mark Roberts, Mark Iradian prepared an edited version of Loose Change which he subtitled with criticisms.[51] Another analysis of the film has been created by the Internet Detectives.[52] Many of the critiques argue that Loose Change quote mines, uses unreliable or out-of-date sources, and cherry-picks evidence to claim that there are serious problems with official accounts of the events of September 11.[41][47][50][51][52]
One of the many aspects focused on by these critiques is Loose Change's analysis of the collapse of the World Trade Center. The comparison to other notable high-rise fires which did not lead to collapse ignores differences in building design, significant WTC structural damage and compromised fireproofing;[41][53] as most steel loses over half its strength at 600°C (1112°F).[54][55] The comparison with Madrid's Windsor Tower fails to note its steel-supported perimeter floors that collapsed during the fire.[56] Kevin Ryan, described by Loose Change as working for Underwriters Laboratories (UL), was actually employed in a water-testing subsidiary.[41] Furthermore, UL does not certify structural steel,[41] and ASTM E119 certification is not meant to predict performance in real uncontrolled fires.[57] The NIST found no evidence of any firm having conducted tests on WTC materials in the past.[58] Another expert quoted, Van Romero, has clarified that he was misquoted by the Albuquerque Journal; he had actually said that it "looked like" explosives took down the WTC. When the misquote was printed, he felt his "scientific reputation was on the line."[55]
On September 11, 2006, Democracy Now! broadcast a discussion between the Loose Change creators and editors from Popular Mechanics, where they debated various aspects of the documentary.[41] Jason Bermas claimed flight 93 did not crash into the field, calling Popular Mechanics a Hearst yellow journalism lie publication. "There’s no plane in this open field at all. There’s a ten-foot crater by 16-foot, and there’s just smoke there. So where is this plane?" Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone wrote that the 9/11 Truth Movement: "gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes."[31]
George Monbiot, political activist and columnist for the Guardian, wrote an article on the improbability of the conspiracies cited in Loose Change,[59] and then wrote a follow-up article in response to negative comments from some of his readers.[60] On SModcast, Kevin Smith discussed Loose Change and other conspiracy videos about aliens and various things. However, he maintains that he enjoys the film purely as entertainment, and does not believe or agree with the theories presented in the film.[61] Popular satirical site, The Best Page in the Universe, parodied the movie with a short video "Unfastened Coins",[62] which "exposed" a Titanic-sinking conspiracy, and an article mocking the logic of conspiracy theories in the film.[63] The History Channel aired a two-hour episode on August 20, 2007, entitled "The 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction?" featuring interviews with the creators of Loose Change.[64]
In Britain, BBC's documentary television show Conspiracy files aired two documentaries focused on 9/11 and the conspiracy theories surrounding the collapse of WTC7. Several claims made by Loose Change were investigated and specifically rebuked. Dylan Avery was interviewed for the program, which cast him in a negative light.

For References Check this wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

Yes, they are critical this and critical that. But what are they critical of?

They are critical of the fact that the movie is out there and want less and less people to see it so that “they” can continue running Germanics (primarily) into the ground. As is always the case with jews, there are always a bunch of Americans that must be sacrificed... Or that is what I will think until I know what they are critical of.


...ASTM E119 certification is not meant to predict performance in real uncontrolled fires...[

Then what is it for to make sure that enough jews get some of the profits from it production?


...The NIST found no evidence of any firm having conducted tests on WTC materials in the past...

So they say because the particular steel in the building was not tested and certified there is no basis for comparison, next they would say because each individual piece of steal was not tested there is no basis for comparison. BS our production techniques have been more than adequate with steel for a long time so as to rely on our engineer and technology standards by most accounts, this seems to be the case except for this one single case... Are you smelling it yet...

Zogbot
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:36 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7877765982288566190#

Best video on the matter, I think. The way in which the towers were demolished is irrelevant. What matters is the political agenda. Once you understand that the PNAC planned for a "new Pearl Harbor to mobilize the American people for war against threats to Israel's national security" and then "oy, it happened!", you must come to the realization that it was not the brown camel-shaggers who did it with box cutters.

Wulfram
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:38 PM
From Nico Haupt:


911 Top 500 Questions

911 - THE BASIC QUESTIONS

1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they
had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial, citing an
unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon
plane?
4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom?
5. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights all use the term boxcutters?
7. Where are the flight recorders?
8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live
camera?
10 Why was security meeting scheduled for
9/11cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
11. How did they come up with the "culprits" so
quickly?
12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the
airports so quickly?
13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
15. Why was no plane seen at the Pentagon?
16. How extensive was the relationship between the
Taliban, the ISI and the CIA?
17. What exactly was the role of Henry Kissinger at
UNOCAL?
18. When was it decided to cancel building a pipeline
from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan?
19. When was the decision made to send the FEMA to New
York?
20. Why did FEMA spokesman Tom Kenney tell Dan Rather
he was in New York on Sept. 10?
21. Why did the FBI in 1996 close the files to
investigate Osama bin Laden's relatives in Washington?
22. Why did .Bush stop inquiries into terrorist
connections of the Bin Laden family in early 2001?
23. Who made the decision to have John O'Neill stop
investigating Al-qeada accounts?
24. Who gave the decision to give him a security job
at the World Trade Center?
25. Did John O'Neill meet anyone of the FEMA in the
night of September 10th?
26. What about media reports that hijackers bought
tickets for flights scheduled after Sept. 11?
27. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appeared on the
passenger lists?
28. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink
alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
29. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow
drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed?
30. Why did the hijackers force passengers to call
relatives?
31. How did the hijackers change the flight plan
without law enforcement or the military try to stop
them?
32. Which hijacker's passport was found in the WTC
rubble? Who found it and what time?
33. How could the FBI distinguish between "regular"
Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights?
34. Why was there not one "innocent" Muslim on board
any of these flights?
35. Did someone go through the passenger lists looking
for Muslim names and label them as hijackers?

MOHAMMED ATTA

36. Did the Florida police provide information that
Atta was searched because of 1)an expired Visa, 2)
driving a car without a license, 3) because of an
incident at Miami Airport?
37. Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the
employees didn't put it on board?
38. Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was
his bag?
39. Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a
uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that
he would commit suicide?
40. Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental
car?
41. When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
42. Did Atta leave the US while in training and then
return?
43. Why did Atta decide to study at Opa Locka, a
famous hub of 6 Navy training bases and includes
government partners like U.S. Coast Guard Air Station,
Police (Miami-Dade) Aviation Unit?
44. Why was Atta allowed to study since he was stopped
by the police for driving without a license and also
for violating his visa?

THE BLACK BOXES AND CRASH VIDEO

45. Why were the Black Boxes never recovered ?
46. Why didn't the FBI release the air traffic
controller's protocols?
47. Why did the FBI not release the Flight Data
Recorder info?
48. Who video-recorded the first plane hitting the
tower? Why did he disappear from the media?

THE HIJACKERS

49. How did the FBI receive a tip from a passenger who
boarded a different plane and reached his destination
safely that he had a confrontation with two ME men at
the Logan airport in Boston?
50. Who tipped the FBI to storm the Westin Hotel in
Boston on September 12th?
51. Where did the photos of all 19 hijackers come
from?
52. How were all hijackers identified just 2 days
after the attack?
53. Why did all 19 names not appear on the passenger
list 2 days after the hijacker list was released?
54. Why do none of the names appear on the passenger
lists UA and AA gave to CNN?
55. How could the hijackers disable the defense
systems?
56. Why did the FBI ignore Bin Laden's family, who
left the United States without further investigation
57. What about the supposed hijackers who are still
alive?
58. Was there a reason to change the list of the
original 19 hijackers?
59. What happened to Ayub Ali Khan and Mohammed Jaweed
Azmath, who have been in jail since
September 2001, because of possession of box cutters
on a train?Who gave the tip to arrest them?
60. Why did it take 4 months before Ramsi Binalschibhs
name was mentioned, since he was a good friend of
Mohammad Atta and lived in his apartment in Hamburg?
61. Why did it take 4 months until December 11 to
charge Zacarias Moussaoui for the 9/11 attacks when
his case was known worldwide for months, but not
mentioned in the American media?
62. Whatever happened with Lotfi Raissi, who was
arrested in UK for teaching the terrorist pilots?
63. What is the current status of the investigation of
Mamoun Darkazanli Import-Export-Company in Hamburg and
Al Taqwa Management Organisation in Lugano?
64. Why was Richard Reid able to enter the Paris
airport twice and who paid for his hotel?
65. Who hired Zacarias Masspoui to learn how to fly
passenger jets in the United States?
66. Why did the FBI or CIA fail to interrogate him
between August and December 2001?

BIN LADEN

67. Did the CIA monitor Bin Laden in 1998 with the
help of 15 Afghan agents, paid $1,000/ month?
68. Where are these agents? Was Johnny "Mike" Spann
one? Was John Walker Lindh one?
69. Is an Afghan agent a member of the ISI? Is an
Afghan agent working for Bin Laden?
70. When was the first time Tenet mentioned the
Al-Quaeda group to any member of the Senate?
71. Why did the Pentagon release a new video version
or translation of the Bin Laden Home video?
72. Why it was released only 8 hours after translation
by the German magazine MONITOR on December ?
73. Why were the four translators prior US-Government
workers?
74. When was the Bin Laden Home Video found and who
found it?
75. Who found the video if Northern Alliance and US
troops had not yet arrived in Kandahar or Jahalabad?
76. Does the timestamp on the Bin Laden video indicate
that it was found two weeks after it was produced?
77. Why was the public not informed who found the
video and when?
78. Why according to MONITOR magazine, were the most
controversial statements translated incorrectly?
79. Why was the video released?
80. Who gave the final decision to release it?
81. Why is the Bin Laden video of June 2001 in which
he praised the attack, available on the Internet?
82. What about Bin Laden's statements on Al-Jazeera in
June 2001 about the bombing of USS Cole, which are
similar to the statements on the November 2001 home
video?
83. Why did Bin Laden state in Umman Magazine in Sept.
2001, that he was not involved in the WTC?
84. Is Bin Laden still on the payroll of the CIA or
ISI?
85. Did the Bin Laden Group Inc. help build ToraBora
with the CIA?
86. What was the purpose of the meeting with General
Pervez Musharraf in May 2001?
87. Why was a statement released that Al-Khalifa bin
Laden, who is not the mother of Bin Laden, had a
telephone call with Bin Laden on September 9, rather
than Alia Ghanem, his mother? Why did Alia Ghanem say
she did not believe he planned the attack?

ANTHRAX AND MICROBIOLOGIST DEATHS

100. What happened on September 18th, when an employee
of Batelle Memorial Institute was involved in a
so-called anthrax hoax on that day? Was he arrested?
101. Why did the investigation of that case begin in
December 2001?
102. What was in the memo of Dr. Leonard Horowitz, a
public health consumer advocate and author of "Death
in the Air" on October 1, 2001, almost two weeks
before the first anthrax letter was sent from Trenton
to the American media building in Boca Raton?
103.What about his letter of Nov. 13 in which he
claimed that BAYER is behind the anthrax infections?
104. Did US BioDefense laboratories send the
anthrax-laced letters to get a new budget for
research?
105. What about the statement of former UN-weapons
inspector of Iraq, Richard Spertzel, who told ABC,
"...he knows only five scientists in the USA who would
be in the situation to produce such a fine, highly
developed spore material"?
106. Why did it take 48 hours to inform Bob Stevens
that he had anthrax?
107. Why were envelopes never found near Bob Stevens,
Amelie Lundgren and Mia Nguyen?
108. How come Microsoft got a hoax anthrax letter from
Malaysia on the same day that President Bush said
Malaysia might be one of the next targets of the
United States?
109. Why did the FBI never investigate the case Don
Wiley, a Bioscientist who disappeared 11/13/01?
110. Why did the FBI begin to investigate after his
body was found on December 22, 300 miles away?
Was there an investigation at the military hydro plant
where workers found him?
Why did the media write different versions about how,
when and where he was found?
Why did the police report change 2 months later from
suicide to an accident?
111. What was the goal of Bioport in 1997?
112.Did development of anti-anthrax vaccines begin in
1998?
113.When did Bioport decide to produce anthrax
vaccines?
114. Was it before or after Sept. 1998 that Admiral
Crowe was put in charge of investigations of the
August 7, 1998 bombings of Embassy Nairobi and Embassy
Dar Es Salaam?
115. Did the schedule for developing anti-anthrax
vaccines begin starting in 1998?
116. When did the US Government ask Bayer for help in
developing a vaccine?
117. When did Bayer start sending the vaccines to the
U.S.?
118. When did Bayer double production of the vaccines?
119. Was the death of Vladimir Pasechnik investigated?
He was former director of the Institute of Ultra Pure
Biochemical Preparations of the Soviet bio-warfare
establishment Biopreparat in November 2001?
120. How are the deaths of scientists Robert M.
Schwartz, Dr. Benito Que and Set Van Nguyen explained
since all occurred in the same month? Is Set van
Nguyen related to the anthrax victim Mia Nguyen?
121. What about the death of Nancy Sonnenfeld
(FEMA-Wife)?
122. Why was the NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife
examining Anthrax in August 2000?
123. Do any employees in Trenton have the same
handwriting as printed on the Anthrax envelopes?
124. Is it just a coincidence that the laboratory is
also based in Trenton?
125. Did the FBI ever ask Fort Detrick to examine
anthrax spores?
126. What about the list of 15-20 labs (maintained by
Barbara Rosenzweig) who used Fort Detrick spores?
127. Does the CIA have spores different from those at
Fort Detrick?
128. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force?
129. Why did he decide on October 25, 2001 to ask
Congress for another $500 million to produce Acambis's
smallpox vaccine?
130. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie
Malecki , Director Palm Beach County Health
Department, picked up the phone for employees of the
AMI-Building, Boca Raton. This is where editor Bob
Stevens got anthrax. Why did she wait two days before
she visited that building again?
131. Did Walter Gilbert, Director Myriad Genetics ever
get official permission from relatives of those killed
at WTC to examine their DNA?

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES

150. Why did General Mahmud Ahmad, former head of the
ISI quit his position?
151. Why did retaliation against the Taliban begin the
day he stepped down?
152. Who in the ISI paid $100.000 to Mohammad Atta?
153. Why does Ahmad think that another secret service
was involved in the WTC attack?
Which Secret Service was he referring to? Did other
ISI official's believe that? Did officials of the CIA
believe that? Did some officials of the Mossad believe
that?
154. What was the purpose of Ahmad's visit to
Washington on 9/11?
155. Who told Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov to abort
an air strike against Afghanistan in May 2000?
156. Did Russian intelligence notify the CIA in 2001
that 25 terrorist pilots had been training for suicide
missions, as reported in the Russian press?

KISSINGER

1. What did Kissinger mean that an "outside threat
from beyond", a "world government" and "individual
rights" who are "willingly relinquished for the
guarantee of their well-being granted", what you
mentioned in 1991 on a Bilderberg Conference?
2. What was his role at UNOCAL?
3. Is he in contact with representatives of these
companies or institutions:
4. What did he discuss at the Bilderberg meeting last
year in May 2001?
5. What was the purpose of his meeting with Moscow
Mayor Yuri Luzhkov in July 2001?
6. Why does he write in "Toward a New Diplomacy for
the 21st Century" that America doesn't need a Foreign
Policy?
7. When was the last time Henry Kissinger met
US-Ambassador in Pakistan, Robert Oakley?

THE PURCHASE OF AIRLINE PUT OPTIONS

1. Is it true that the CIA is in possession of PROMIS
software?
2. What is the purpose of PROMIS?
3. Did A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard, CIA, own any stocks of
United Airlines, American Airlines, Merrill Lynch, 4.
Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance) which owns 25% of
American Airlines, and Munich Re.?
5. What is his connection to Alex Brown, Deutsche
Bank?
6. Did he give any insider information about to George
Tenet, CIA?
7. Who was the investor who purchased 2,000 UAL put
options between August and September 11, 2001?
8. Did Deutsche Bank-Alex Brown own any stocks of UA,
AA, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance)
which owns 25% of American Airlines, and Munich Re?
9. What about the 2,500 UA-contracts which were "split
into 500 chunks each, directing each order to
different U.S. exchanges around the country
simultaneously." on August 10, 2001?
10. Did Deutsche purchase UAL options in August 2001?
11. Why did DB-AB purchase 4,744 put options on United
Air Lines stock as opposed to only 396 call s on
September 6-7? What was the purpose of doing that?
12. What is the connection to Wally Kromgaard?
13. Did Deutsche Bank or Wally Kromgaard purchase
4,516 put options on American Airlines as compared to
748 call options on September 10?
14. What was the reason of Mayo Shattuck III
re-asssignment on September 15th?

THE TALIBAN AND THE CARPET OF GOLD..

1. When was the last time they met any representatives
of the US-Government?
2. What was the purpose of these meetings?
3. Do the Taliban know Karl E. Inderfurth and State
Department counterterrorism chief Michael Sheehan?
4. Do they know which US-Representative said in
February 2001: "Either you accept our offer of a
carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of
bombs"?
5. When was the last time the Taliban was in touch
with this representative?
6. Did Abdul Haq, the former Mujahedin leader executed
Sept 2001 by the Taliban, decide in Winter 2000 to
attack the Taliban?
7. Did production of opium in Afghanistan fall from
3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 tonnes in 2001?

GLOBAL HAWK TECHNOLOGY

1. Was Global Hawk technology able to remotelycontrol
unmanned planes in 1999 for 27 hours?
2. Did Northrop-Grumman use Global Hawk technology in
the war in Afghanistan since October 2001?
3. What is the purpose of unmanned technology?
4. Is Northrup in contact with any engineers of
Boeing?
5. Did Northrup install Global Hawk technology in a
commercial airplane?

CARRIER AND TROOP MOVEMENTS BEFORE SEPT 11

1. Did two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive in the
Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast before
9/11?
2. Did 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO
troops in Egypt for Operation 'Bright Star' on 9/11?
What was the purpose of both of these operations?

BIOCHEMICAL WARFARE

1. When did Tommy Franks learn that he would use
Thermobarics in ToraBora?
2. Does he know if it had been tested on December 12
in Nevada?
3. Who told Franks that Bin Laden might hide in
ToraBora?
4. Is the main purpose of Thermobarics to destroy
buried bio and chemical stocks?
5. Was Thermobarics developed for the purpose to use
one day in Iraq?
6. When was the first time Franks used Thermobarics?
Was it before or after the announcement of the end of
ABM Treaty on December 11?
7. When did the US decide to use B61-11, the "nuclear
version" of its "conventional" BLU-113 counterpart?
8. Why has the NSA destroyed data collected on
Americans or US companies since the Sept. 11 attacks?

ABORTED ATTEMPTS TO GET BIN-LADEN

1. Why did Clinton abort an attack on Bin Laden in
October 1999?
2. Who was responsible for that operation?
3. Why was the operation put on hold?
4. Why did Musharraf halt a covert operation to attack
Bin Laden in October 1999?
5. Why did the GOP in Congress stop almost every move
Clinton made against terrorism? They refused to
believe reports and pass necessary legislation. In
1996 Clinton proposed a very extensive anti-terrorism
regulation.

RICHARD REID

1. Who hired Richard Reid to threaten a passenger
plane in Paris?
2. Who did he send an email to in Pakistan?
3. Has he ever been in touch with the ISI or CIA?
4. Did he know the difference between an explosive and
a detonator?
5. How many ounces did he have in his shoes?
6. What size are his shoes?
7. Who build or prepared his shoes?

JOHN WALKER LINDH

1. Has John Walker Lindh ever been in touch with the
CIA?
2. Did he ever work for the CIA?
3. Who arrested him in 2001?
4. Why didn't he escape in the tumult to nearby
Masar-e-Sharif?
5. Who hired his lawyer, Richard Brohanan? Who paid
his lawyer?
6. Why didn't he go to Guantanamo Bay?

DICK CHENEY

1. When did Cheney stop working for Halliburton?
2. Is he still in possession of any Halliburton stock?
3. Is he still in contact with Halliburton?
4. Was Halliburton invited to an oil conference in May
2002?
5. Does Cheney know when that meeting was planned?
6. Did Cheney have influence concerning Halliburton
contracts with the Pentagon?
7. What exactly did Cheney decide to do on September
11th?
8. Did he speak with an Air Force Commander or Lt.
Gen. Charles F. Wald on that day?
9. When did he inform the president about the hijacked
airplanes on September 11?
10. Who called the White House on September 11 at 9:30
PM about a possible threat?
11. Why was no air security at the White House or the
Pentagon at 9:30 PM?
12. When and who gave the approval to evacuate the
White House at 9:45 PM?
13. What was the purpose of a meeting with Indian
opposition leader Sonia Gandhi in June 2001 about a
multimillion-dollar debt owed to Enron from a major
energy project in Indian Power Plants?
14. When was the last time Cheney spoke with anyone
from ENRON?

COLIN POWELL

1. What was the role of Colin Powell?
2. Who decided to give $43 million in aid to the
Taliban regime in May 2001?
3. Did he know that production of opium in Afghanistan
fell from 3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 in 2001?
4. What was the purpose of his decision to treat the
Taliban prisoners as War Prisoners? Is this decision
in any way related to media reports 2 days earlier
that Powell may have been involved in negotiations
with Indian Power Plants?
5. What was the purpose of his short trip to Latin
America on September 11?
6. Who decided that he fly to Latin America on that
day?
7. Why would someone threaten him in Afghanistan on
January 17, 2002 as Newsweek reported?
8. What was the purpose of Powell meeting with India's
foreign minister on April 6, 2001?
9. Did Enron or Cheney ask Powell to help collect a
$64 million debt on an Indian plant project?

GEORGE H.W. BUSH

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
South Arabia on behalf of the Carlyle Group?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?

THOMAS WHITE

1. Is Thomas White still in contact with ENRON?
2. Did his contact at anytime influence his decisions?
3. Does he still own ENRON stocks?

DELMART VREELAND

1. Did Vreeland warn Canadian Intelligence in May 2001
about possible terrorist attacks on New York and the
Pentagon?
2. Did he place the warning in an envelope while in
prison in Toronto, Canada?
3. Where did he get his information?
4. Whom did he give the envelope to?
5. Why was he placed in jail?

SAUDI-BINLADIN-GROUP.COM

1.Was the domain created on September 11th, 2000?
2. Who paid for that domain?
3. Are they also owners of Iridium Satellites?
4. When did they end contact with relatives of the
Bush family?

THE CARLYLE GROUP

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle
Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the
U.S.?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?
3. When did he resign from Carlyle Group?
4. Is he still in touch with any of their
representatives?

STEPHEN LANDER, Director MI5

1. Did Lander monitor a phone conversation between
Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid in Dec. 2000?
2. What did Lander tell representatives of the CIA
about Zacarias Moussaoui?
3. Why did he stop monitoring Djamel Beghal, member of
Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama bin Laden) in
August 2001?

BIN LADEN IN DUBAI

1. Did Bin Laden in July 2001 enter an American
hospital in Dubai?
2. Did he arrive on July 4, 2001 on a flight from
Qetta, Pakistan to American Hospital?
3. Was he at the hospital July 4-11, 2001?
4. Did Bernard Koval, CEO of American Hospital, ever
speak with Doctor Terry Callaway about that visit?
5. Why did he change his statements about this story
not being true and that he "asked around"?
6. What is the difference between Continuous
Ambulatory Peritoneal Dialysis and Continuous Cycling
Peritoneal Dialysis?
7. Did Koval know Larry Stevens?
8. Can Koval explain why Richard Labeviere, author of
"Terror Dollars" (about illegal Al-Quaeda accounts),
wrote the story about Osama Bin Laden's kidney
operation?

GEORGE W. BUSH

1. What exactly happened on September 11 and at what
time was President Bush informed?
2. Why was President Bush scheduled to visit a school
in Florida?
3. Who scheduled the time of the visit?
4. When exactly did Bush learn about the first crash
into the WTC?
5. How could he have seen that on TV?
6. Why didn't he interrupt his school meeting as soon
as he learned of the first plane crash?
7. Did Bush ever wonder how Bin Laden was able to hear
the first plane crash live on the radio?
8. Which radio station he was listening to?
9. Can Bush explain how Bin Laden's Home Video was
found only two weeks after it was produced?
10. Why did Bush decide to release Bin Laden's Home
Video?
11. What is the purpose of the Western Hemisphere
Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC) in Fort
Benning, Georgia, where terrorists have been trained
for undercover agents in South America?
Bush stated "if any government sponsors the outlaws
and killers of innocents, they have become outlaws and
murderers themselves". So what does he think about
Fort Benning?
12. What is the role of Zalmay Khalilzad (former
UNOCAL) in the National Security Council ?
13. What is the current role of Zalmay Khalilzad
(former UNOCAL) in Afghanistan?
14. When was Bush's last contact with anyone from
ENRON?
15. Why was China admitted to the WTO on September 13
after 15 years of unsuccessful attempts?
16. Why did Bush postpone the release of Ronald
Reagan's records?
17. How does Bush feel about the need to investigate
the CIA's mistakes?
18. Does Bush agree with senators John McCain, Joseph
I. Lieberman, Porter J. Goss, former C.I.A.
clandestine case officer and a Florida Republican,
Richard C. Shelby and Ron Paul, US Congressman, who
want an investigation and have said "Secret government
is winning out over open government"?
19. Did he know before he left his hotel that morning
on the way to the school that the 1st tower had been
hit?ABC news reported that morning that he was asked
by reporters if he was aware of events in NYC and he
answered yes. If so, why did he later say he first
heard of it was when he was at the school?
20. Why did Bush continue to sit in that classroom
reading to children when he should have been
conferring with his advisors?
21. Why did Bush say that he and Card initially
thought it was an accident involving a small plane?
22. Given all the information sources available to the
POTUS and his staff how could his people not have
known the kind of plane involved?
23. Why didn't they know at this point, as did the FAA
and NORAD, that aircraft were hijacked?
The Batallion Chief in the 9/11 video was seen and
heard asking for military backup immediately after the
building was hit.
24.How come the NYFD knew it was terrorism right away
but the POTUS and his aides just calmly went about
their business?

TONY BLAIR

1. Were 25,000 British troops and the largest British
Armada since the Falkland Islands War, part of
Operation 'Essential Harvest' pre-positioned in Oman,
the closest point on the Arabian Peninsula to Pakistan
before September 11, 2001?
2. When did he begin to place SIS-Special Forces in
Afghanistan? Why?

THE SUN-SENTINEL

1. Did Gloria Irish own unit 1504 at the Delray
Racquet Club, 755 Dotterel?
2. Did she rent that property to Hamza Alghamdi in
August 2001?
3. Why did the media not report about a connection of
the Sun-Sentinel and the hijackers?
4. Why did it first appear that the hijackers had
something to do with the anthrax attacks?
5. Why has this connection or coincidence never
appeared in the media again?
6. What was the connection between husband Michael
Irish (SunSentinel) and Bob Stevens (who died from
Anthrax)?

WARNINGS

1. When did Vladimir Putin warn the CIA about a
possible terrorist attack and what was their reaction?
2. What was the purpose of the meeting between
Christina Rocca, director of Asian affairs at the
State Department and the Taliban ambassador Mollah
Abdul Salam Zaeef in Islamabad in August 2001?
3. Why did she oversee the delivery of Stinger
missiles in the 80s to Afghan mujaheddin?
4. Did Walid Arkeh in Seminole County jail inform the
FBI in August 2001 about an attack on America? What
was the reaction of the FBI?
5. Why did Dr. Jeffrey Starr, U.S. department of
defense, visit Tajikistan in Jan 2001?
6. When did Jean-Claude Cousseran, Director DGSE ,
French Secret Service inform the CIA about terrorist
attacks on America? What was their reaction?
7. What does he know about the monitoring of Djamel
Beghal, member of Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama
bin Laden) and Kamel Daoudi? Did he ever inform the
CIA about that? And when?
8. When did Italian Deputy Prime Minister Gianfranco
Fini inform the CIA about a possible attack on the
American president "with the use of an airplane"? What
was their reaction?
9. When did President Mubarak, Egypt, inform the CIA
about a possible attack on America with an "airplane
stuffed with explosives"? What was their reaction?
10. When did Efraim Halevy , Director of Mossad since
1998 (unconfirmed) inform the CIA about a possible
attack with "200 terrorists" on America? What was
their reaction?
11. Is it true he warned Ariel Sharon not to travel to
New York on September 11 to speak at a festival?
12. Did a caller to Loxley Banks, Director Radio
Cayman Islands talk show, give several warnings of an
imminent attack on the U.S on Sept. 3 -10?
13. The London Times reported that someone from the
FAA warned Salman Rushdie not to travel to the United
States on September 3rd? If this is true, who was it?
14. Did the FBI investigate the two men who met
Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi in Harry's Bar at
the Helmsley Hotel in Manhattan on September 8, 2001?
15. Who does Abdullah Abdullah (Northern Alliance)
believe killed Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud on
September 9, 2001?
16. When and why did he decide to attack Kabul on
September 11 at 5:30 PM?
17. When did he decide to invade Masar-i-Scharif
18. Did the CIA helped him provoke a tumult?
19. Did he ever meet John Walker Lindh?
20. Why was Major John Kenny, Commander Wright
Patterson Air Base, Dayton placedon high alert on
September 10? Did he inform companies in Dayton to
shutdown their offices?
21. Why was Colonel William M. Dietrick , Commander
Defense Language Institute in Garrison, Monterey on
high alert on September 10?
22. Why did one of Kenneth (Ken) Weinbrecht (President
SAMS ) executives say on September 10, that he was a
'Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to
target US forces and make it look like a
Palestinian/Arab act.'"
23. Did Jean-Louis Bruguiere, French anti-terrorism,
inform the CIA on September 10 about a possible
terrorist attack? If so, what was their reaction?
24. Why did Atta and hijacker Abdulaziz Alomari checke
into a Portland, Maine motel (unidentified) on
September 10?
25. Why was the Portland, Airport, according to
eye-witnesses, in full charge of more military
officials and soldiers than usual, weeks before
September 11, 2001?
26. Why, as the San Francisco Chronicle reported, was
Mayor Brown warned to be "cautious in your travel" the
night of September 10? Who warned him?
27. Why did Alex Diamandis, Odigo Vice President of
Sales and Marketing, receive a warning on his
messenger service about a possible attack on America
on September 11, 2001? At which time?
28. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
"Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?" What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL/GLOBAL HAWK

1. Why did Kenneth Waldie, Stanley Hall, Herbert Homer
and Peter Gay of Raytheon travel on Sept. 11? 2. 2.
Can Global Hawk technology be used for at least 27
hours?
3. Is Global Hawk technology used in commercial
airplanes?
4. Did Danielle O'Brien, air traffic controller,
inform another air traffic control center about a
plane traveling fast southwest of Dulles after
spotting it 8:18 AM on September 11?
5. Who was informed and what happened?

THE PENNSYLVANIA CRASH

1. Why didn't Dr. James G. Roche, Secretary of the Air
Force try to reach the airplanes in NYC (7 minutes
time for McGuire AFB in New Jersey ) and at the
Pentagon (10 minutes time)?
2. Did Roche ever try to shutdown the plane in
Pennsylvania?
3. Can Roche explain why magazines of that plane were
found 20 miles away from the crash?
Andrews AFB is 13 miles away. He had one hour and
fifteen minutes to respond to the plane that hit the
Pentagon. What happened during that time?
4. Can he explain why many ear- and eye witnesses,
including workers of the road construction company New
Enterprise saw or heard F-16 jets ?
5. Why did President Bush say only one week later that
he tried to shutdown that plane?
6. Who gave that decision?

DEFENSE ALERTS AND MOVEMENTS

1. Why did George Bush leave Barksdale Air Force Base
aboard Air Force One and flew to an Air Force base in
Nebraska on 1:48 PM on September 11 and returned to
Washington at 4:30 PM?
2. What exactly did Donald Rumsfeld do that day before
he arrived at the Pentagon around 3:55 PM?
3. How did Rumsfeld know at 5:30 PM on September 11
that the plane in Pennsylvania could have been headed
for one of three possible targets: Camp David, the
White House or the U.S. Capitol building?
4. Can he explain why early media reports told us that
no squadrons of combat-ready fighter jets have been at
Andrews and later changed their reports that they
haven't been on high alert only?
5. Why was Air Force Lt. Col. Vic Warzinski, another
Pentagon spokesman, so sure on September 11 that
aircraft was coming your way?
6. What did the D.C. Air National Guard in Washington
do on September 11?
7. Can he explain what those 3 fighters did from
9:40AM until 9:55AM when they finally turned towards
Flight 93 and were 60 miles out at 10:06am?
8. Can he explain why Air Traffic Controllers in a
Nashua Telegraph article did report an F-16 was
circling Flight 93 and was in visual range at the time
of crash?
9. Can he confirm a witness report that National Guard
F-16's have been at Hancock field in Syracuse NY in
the air early that morning before 9AM?
10. How could the hijackers know how to disable
defense systems?
11. What was the official reason that fighters of the
305th Air Wing, McGuire Air Force Base, NJ did not
intercept the 2nd hijacked plane in NYC? This would
have been possible within 7 minutes after 8:48 AM
12. Why did none of the 459th Aircraft Squadron
(Andrews AFB) fighters intercept the plane which
crashed into the Pentagon? Andrews AFB is 10 miles
from Washington DC.
13. Col. Ken McClellan, Air Force spokesman said on
September 11, that Mohammad Atta attended the
International Officer's School at Maxwell/Gunter Air
Force Base in Montgomery, and was seen by
eye-witnesses? What was McClellan doing there? Why did
he later deny the report?
14. Why did he decide not to shutdown ECHELON base Bad
Aibling in Germany as planned for 2002?
15. What is the reason that none of any Air Force
fighters reached the hijacked plane in time?
16. Many eye- and witnesses think that the plane in
Pennsylvania was shot down. What is the scientific
explanation why the magazine of the airplane was found
many miles away?
17. Why did Jack Kelly, idefense.com, inform USA Today
only 12 minutes after the first crash (8:48AM), that
terror groups using Web encryption may have been
responsible? And why was he so sure before the second
crash at 9:03 PM?
18. Did Kelly serve with the U.S. government where he
managed several significant programs for the
information warfare and intelligence communities?
19. Did Joseph J. Esposito, Chief of NYPD try to
contact the Pentagon at 9:06 AM on September 11? What
was their reaction?
10. Why didn't General Elwood "Pete" Quesada of the
FAA inform President Bush between 8:15 and 9:05 about
four simultaneously hijacked planes? Who did he inform
and what was their reaction?

THE WTC COLLAPSE

1. What does Nicholas Scoppetta of FDNY know about the
latest reports of the WTC destruction?
2. Can he explain why many witnesses saw and heard
more than two explosions in the WTC?
3. Can he explain why both Twin Towers and Building 7
collapsed in that way?
4. Can he explain why a gas tank was in Building 7?
5. Can he explain why there were no passengers in the
subway under the WTC?
6. Can he explain why there was no guard at the gold
reservoir under the WTC?
7. Why did Dr. Jeffrey P. Koplan, Director CDC
prepare, as CNN reported, emergency-response teams on
September 11 at 11:16 PM?

MISCELLANEOUS

1. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
"Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?" What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?
2. When did Tayseer Allouni , Kabul correspondent
Al-Jazeera, receive his first video from Bin Laden?
Can he explain why the first video on October 7 2001,
the day of the retaliation, looked like it was
recorded in the morning?
3. Did Tom Simmons (former U.S. Ambassador to
Pakistan), Karl Inderfurth (former Assistant Secretary
of State for South Asian affairs) and Lee Coldren
(former State Department expert on South Asia) decide
or announce in a July 2001 meeting that an attack was
planned on the Taliban in October 2001?
4. Why did Ms. Barbara Bodine, US ambassador to Yemen
stop John O'Neill from investigating Al-Quaeda
accounts in July 2001?
5. Did Niaz Niak, former Pakistani Foreign Secretary
say in mid July 2001 that the USA planned military
action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban?
6. Did Hameed Gul, retired Pakistani general of
Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence, say that a
secret service was involved in the attack on America?
7. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force? Why did he decide on October
25, 2001 to ask Congress for another $500 million to
produce Acambis's smallpox vaccine?
8. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie Malecki
, Director Palm Beach County Health Department, picked
up the phone for employees of the AMI-Building, Boca
Raton. This is where editor Bob Stevens got anthrax.
Why did she wait two days before she visited that
building again?
9. Why did Mayor Guilani sell WTC rubble to India for
recycling and also China? Who made that decision?
10. What was the purpose of U.S. Ambassador Wendy
Chamberlain's phone call on October 10, 2001 to the
Pakistani oil minister? Why was she sure that a
previously abandoned Unocal pipeline from Turkmenistan
across Afghanistan to the Pakistani coast for the
purpose of selling oil and gas to China, was back on
the table in view of recent geopolitical developments?
11. What exactly was found on Z. Moussaoui's computer
after 9/11, when local agents were given a Federal
Intelligence Security Act (FISA) warrant, which they
had requested six weeks previously?
This ties directly into the question of the
administration's dealings with the Taliban, its
reluctance to investigate Saudi nationals, etc.
12. Why the attack on Cynthia McKinney for asking: 1)
why has there been no investigation of the 9-11
attack? and 2) did Bush/CIA/NSA know of it beforehand,
and allow it to happen?
13. Why is the Bush administration so strongly against
a real investigation into the events of 9-11?
14. Why did the US give 43 million dollars to
Afghanistan back in May or June of 2001
15. Why did Bush toss the Hart-Rudman terror security
study (developed over a 2 year period) and instead
assign responsibility to Cheney and FEMA?
16. Why did Ashcroft stops flying commercial, citing
an unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
Why did the FBI and Justice not identify the form,
origin and time of the threat?
17. Why did Bush stay in Texas for the month of August
and Cheney in Wyoming?
18. Why no photos or videos of the Pentagon plane? And
there's not a single credible frame of film or second
of video of this? Also, why hasn't a similar flight
path graphic ever been published?
19. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom a half-second after Andy Card told him,
"Mr. pResident, the nation is under attack"?
20. Why did they leave him exposed to danger for two
and a half minutes in the classroom and another
half-hour in the school before he returned to the
relative safety of Air Force One?
21. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
22. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights tell people on the ground that the highjackers
had "box cutters"?
23. Where are the flight recorders?
24. How did they find a passport that just "happens"
to belong to one of the hijackers in the WTC rubble
and they can't locate even ONE flight recorder?
25. Why no investigative reporting of the Pentagon
scene? The photos do not show much, but then
photographers were not allowed, initially, to
photograph the scene, if I remember correctly.
26. Why was the series of recommendations Al Gore also
put together in 1996 on airport security called by
Republican congress "paranoid" and too harsh. Why did
the airline industry, lobbying against it, consider it
too expensive and impractical.
27. Why was the Hart-Rudman report on the potential
dangers of terrorism in the homeland. The results of
the research ignored by Bush?
28. Why were FISA warrants disallowed by Bush?
29. Why did the US pull the plug on Muslim websites
Monday September 10, 2001?
30. Why did the Saudi bin-Laden-group have a website
with a PRE-SET expiration date of Sept. 11, 2001?
31. Why were the bin Ladens flown out of the U.S. on
private jets the day after the 9/11?
32. Why did Cheney say that everyone in the White
House started taking Cipro on September 12 when the
first anthrax letter wasn't postmarked until September
18. 33. Why did Bush dissolve the Bin Laden Task
Force? What would have happened had this focused and
knowledgeable group been in place 9 months before 911?
34. Why was metallic debris found 8 miles from the
crash site of the plane that went down in Penn? They
said it went straight down and left a small hole in
the ground. If they found metallic debris from the
plane 8 miles away it was either shot down or a bomb
exploded in the plane.
35. Why did they not let the media or any reporters
take video or photos of the crash site?


Comment
From Nico Haupt
5-9-2

Please don't send ME any answers to these questions. I've been working on Sept. 11th oddities, including media and political analysis, for the past 7 months, 24/7, and would describe myself as one of the specialists and analysts of the attacks and the circumstances surrounding them.

This list of questions has been circulating since January, 2002, and I have just now been able to revise it. Its main purpose, from the beginning, has been to express, how many questions are really exist.

It's actually not ME who is searching for answers any longer. The US government and the people who are addressed in these questions, have to answer to us. I hope you got the idea.

The purpose of this list has only a political background:

It's question list designed for a commission of inquiry and individuals called to testify. So, again, please don't send me any corrections or answers.

You should use this list, politically, to send to your US Congressman and local papers, etc.

I'm sure most of us 911 skeptics, and all Rense-regulars, already know which questions are really important, which immediately have to be asked, which are less important or inane, and which ones have to be further updated.

You will find much additional material at http://www.ourDNA.org where you can also leave your comment, thx :)

Nico

Landers
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:45 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7877765982288566190#

Best video on the matter, I think. The way in which the towers were demolished is irrelevant. What matters is the political agenda. Once you understand that the PNAC planned for a "new Pearl Harbor to mobilize the American people for war against threats to Israel's national security" and then "oy, it happened!", you must come to the realization that it was not the brown camel-shaggers who did it with box cutters.

9/11 Missing Links is a joke (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t516165-4/#post6774745)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_E6JroOs3IWE/SKkMUrUzPhI/AAAAAAAAAG4/MC__fESzB7I/S1600-R/Banner.jpg

Zogbot
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 05:57 PM
I see. Your point is quite well argued and credible; I submit my acceptance of it.

Wulfram
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 06:11 PM
I know who did it!!! :D
According to what I read, the below comic was drawn BEFORE 911.

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff355/williamofwaco/911m1.jpg

velvet
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Pennsylvania

The flight impacted at 563 miles per hour (906 km/h) at a 40 degree nose-down, inverted attitude.[19] The impact left a crater eight to ten feet deep (c. 3 m), and 30 to 50 feet wide (c. 12 m).[57] All 44 people died. A fireball that witnesses said shot several hundred feet into the air after the jetliner crashed.

Why is the Pennsylvania crash different than any other plane crash you've ever seen? Because you've never seen one crash this fast before and pointed at such an extreme angle towards the ground.


So, the plane crashed with 251 meters/second into the ground and only made a crater of 3 meters deep and 12 meters wide? Thats a bit small, methinks.

A Boeing 747 weighs 335 tons, it is itself already bigger than 3x12meters, and when it crashes with a speed of 251m/s into the ground, it has an impact weight of 84085 tons. And this makes a small hole of just 12 meters and just 3 meters deep?

Was this a model plane that made that cute little hole? :D

Landers
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 06:46 PM
I see. Your point is quite well argued and credible; I submit my acceptance of it.

It was for info, that is what the topic is called, not what I said.

Zogbot
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 07:25 PM
Your criticism of 911 Missing Links is that it's racist and we shouldn't talk about the jewish connection. It was just the 'big business' and the 'good old boys network' which was responsible.

Landers
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Your criticism of 911 Missing Links is that it's racist and we shouldn't talk about the jewish connection. It was just the 'big business' and the 'good old boys network' which was responsible.

Are you talking to me? The link I gave was for informational purposes only, not nessesarily what I personally think. Also, the title of the link is what 12monk called it on Stormfront, not what I have written. Even he didn't write it, it was by another website.

Zogbot
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 08:48 PM
I assumed it was your opinion since you linked to it. I read the criticism and that's what it boils down to.

Landers
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 09:05 PM
I assumed it was your opinion since you linked to it. I read the criticism and that's what it boils down to.

No, not me. I just posted it because I thought it was interesting. I always say that you need to have both sides of a story before you can made a balanced, educated and unbiased opinion and I thought this should make interesting reading.

Zogbot
Tuesday, October 5th, 2010, 09:06 PM
All right. I agree, both viewpoints are needed to arrive at a (roughly) correct conclusion.

Ard Ri
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 07:49 PM
...is not so much how the buildings collapsed and the planes came down, but why. Cui bono?
That's the one question that has to be answered.
When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, they didn't deny responsibility or say it was really the Chinese who did it. They had a reason for what they did, and while we Americans thought that reason was wholly unjustified, the motivation for the attack was clear.
But "radical muslims" haven't been anxious to claim credit for 9/11, which makes no sense if they did it to express their hatred of American freedoms. Instead, their immediate reaction was to suggest that others were the ones behind the attacks.
And America's reaction was to invade two countries, Afganistan and Iraq, whose citizens weren't hijackers on any of the planes. And we seemingly have no real interest in finding Osama, whose whereabouts have been unknown for 8 years or so.
This is what is so damn curious.

Caledonian
Saturday, November 6th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Is there any merit to things circulating around conspiracy on the subject of 911?

http://www.911truth.org/

Ralf
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 02:34 AM
Be easier to ask if theres any merit to the official story about 911, then we could give you a simple answer...no.

Where do you want to start with 911?
Ask about any single aspect and I can point you to the real answers, not theories but forensic evidence that you have been lied to in order to get Westerners to fight Israels illegal wars for her.

Heres a few videos just to get you warmed up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFROg3YbAM

In view of that video, how likely is it that anyone could invisage WT7 collapsing due to that little fire?, well, BBC reported it collapsing 20 minutes earlier than it actually did, they must have had a script for the days planned events.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3s

Dont just look into 911, we in England had to do our share to promote terrorism with the 7/7 false flag, you will note how Peter Power who used to be in charge of Met Police anti-terrorsim, is part of the BBC Panorama programme which envisages a terrorist event involving 3 tube trains and a road vehicle, then on the day he goes on TV admitting he is running an "exercise" involving the same 3 tube trains and a road vehicle that blew up!
The only clue he gives as too the sponsers of said exercise is "Israeli banks".
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8756795263359807776#

Or how about the dancing Israelis who had gone to New York to "document the event" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

Or how about the Jew Larry Silverstien who bought the lease on the White Elephant twin towers that were running at a loss, required billions to be spent on dissimilar metal corrosion and asbestos removal, was not allowed to be pulled dwon, Lucky Larry made 4.5 billion in weeks had his buildings knocked dwon for free, and found himself in position of some prime real estate at the end of it.
http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=15459

If you are really interested, just google any aspect of 911 to make your own mind up, look up sites like http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/ who can tell you such lies as you have been told are impossible due to the laws of Physics, or how those airplanes might be able to fly that fast at high altitude where the air is this, but at closer to ground level, the denser air would have destroyed those planes before they hit any building.

Or look up thermite, how its used to demolish buildings by vapourising steel at 45% angles, just like you see in the steel beam behind the fireman standing in the 911 ruins, then ask yourself why rivers of molten steel where still in evidence in the ruins 3 months after constant wetting.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/Nambocttr/pic87932.jpg

See the thermite cascading out of the side of the twin towers before thier collapse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOq3HYRiG7Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J8ojEWlkrs

Caledonian
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 02:38 AM
I'll admit Ralf that I'm a bit of a skeptic towards 911 truth however I wouldn't put conspiracy as being somthing that is beyond a government's usage to conspire against a general populance in that it has happened before.

Lately I read into it [ Mostly out of boredom and because I have too much time on my hands.] where I'm somewhat fascinated by the subject because some of the arguements made for 911 truth don't seem that far fetched at all if one gives them critical thought for awhile.

[I'm still on the fence however in that I don't know what to believe on it.]

EQ Fighter
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 03:04 AM
The Truth is if it is a "Main Stream Story" and "Approved ;) " by the Media, FBI, CIA, "Homeland Security" or other such Agency's of the Federal Government, it IS A LIE.

They have as I see never to this point ever, released unaltered "Truth" it is always propaganda, and generally plane BS.

If you want truth, you need to get it from people who are not paid to Lie. :thumbdown

Caledonian
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 03:17 AM
The Truth is if it is a "Main Stream Story" and "Approved ;) " by the Media, FBI, CIA, "Homeland Security" or other such Agency's of the Federal Government, it IS A LIE.

They have as I see never to this point ever, released unaltered "Truth" it is always propaganda, and generally plane BS.

If you want truth, you need to get it from people who are not paid to Lie. :thumbdown

What I don't understand is how no black boxes were found and how when it concerns serial numbers of identifying the aircraft no such documentation on a federal government mandate was ever made or approved in investigations after the incident of 911 occured.

Then there is the third building which was never hit by a single aircraft that went down in almost a demolition style.

[These are the initial things that I've discovered from others on the subject that I simply don't understand where I'm skeptical of the official story.]


Ralf said:
Dont just look into 911, we in England had to do our share to promote terrorism with the 7/7 false flag, you will note how Peter Power who used to be in charge of Met Police anti-terrorsim, is part of the BBC Panorama programme which envisages a terrorist event involving 3 tube trains and a road vehicle, then on the day he goes on TV admitting he is running an "exercise" involving the same 3 tube trains and a road vehicle that blew up!
The only clue he gives as too the sponsers of said exercise is "Israeli banks".

I've heard various conspiracy stories that are similar when it concerns the recent London attacks.

EQ Fighter
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 03:35 AM
I'll admit Ralf that I'm a bit of a skeptic towards 911 truth however I wouldn't put conspiracy as being somthing that is beyond a government's usage to conspire against a general populance in that it has happened before.

Lately I read into it [ Mostly out of boredom and because I have too much time on my hands.] where I'm somewhat fascinated by the subject because some of the arguements made for 911 truth don't seem that far fetched at all if one gives them critical thought for awhile.

[I'm still on the fence however in that I don't know what to believe on it.]

Government by definition IS a conspiracy.
The real issue is are they a a conspiracy which we the people can keep reigned in.

Most of the time the answer is NO.

Caledonian
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 03:48 AM
Government by definition IS a conspiracy.
The real issue is are they a a conspiracy which we the people can keep reigned in.

Most of the time the answer is NO.

Governments being the mechanism that control and reign the balances of power where conspiracy is a necessity of any influence of power in that the powerful necessitate the need to conspire against the rest for control. ;)

Ralf
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 11:24 AM
What I don't understand is how no black boxes were found and how when it concerns serial numbers of identifying the aircraft no such documentation on a federal government mandate was ever made or approved in investigations after the incident of 911 occured.

Then there is the third building which was never hit by a single aircraft that went down in almost a demolition style.

[These are the initial things that I've discovered from others on the subject that I simply don't understand where I'm skeptical of the official story.]



I've heard various conspiracy stories that are similar when it concerns the recent London attacks.

Now I used to be an aircraft mechanic, every single aspect of everything concerning any individual aircraft is meticulously recorded, you even have to have a qualification to sign for work you have done.

Of those four aircraft, the last time I looked I found at least two of them are still recorded as servicable, now this doesnt mkean somebody hasnt got around to updating the records, it means that two of those aircraft are still serviceable, full stop.

As for the Mossad agents, just google it, I lost me very many links to all this stuff when Irecently reformatted my computer, theres something about Israeli students setting up toy stalls in shopping malls and they turned out to be Mossad or something.

Even seemingly unrelated things show up 911 for what it really was, such as "The Patriot Act", this appeared on the scene within days, it couldnt have been formulated that quickly, it was ready and waiting for an event in which it could be foisted on the American People, putting them under more "facist" laws then even the Nazi regime was said to have.

velvet
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 12:57 PM
What I don't understand is how no black boxes were found and how when it concerns serial numbers of identifying the aircraft no such documentation on a federal government mandate was ever made or approved in investigations after the incident of 911 occured.

Yeah, that's one thing that got me to wonder about the official story too. The black boxes, designed to survive the most heaviest blows, are destroyed, but then they find passports (paper) of the "terrorists" who hijacked the plane and which burnt for hours in cerosine??? On top in a fire that allegedly was hot enough to melt the entire structure of the towers and brought them down?

Fantastic physics there :P


Then there is the third building which was never hit by a single aircraft that went down in almost a demolition style.

Not "almost", it was demolition style. In the days after the event there have been a lot of amateur interviews on youtube and elsewhere, where fireworkers said they heard explosions, row explosions and then the small building crashed, the same also for at least one of the towers.

And what had always made me wonder, already on 9/11, was how the second plane possibly could get into the other tower.

I mean, you have all this control stuff, airforce in alarm for cases like that, you already have two planes (one in the tower and one in Pentagon, allegedly), and there is no airforce to shoot this third plane before it crashes into New York? Who's supposed to believe that?

And then Pentagon. I've seen back then an amateur video that actually showed a missile going very near over the ground and then crashing into Pentagon. There is not a single piece of a plane (all molten they said) ever been found. And the damage on Pentagon is way more physically consistent with a small missile than with a plane, the hole actually is too small to be from an exploding plane.

There's much to wonder about, the official story though is inconsistent with the actual damages, so the official story is pretty much complete BS.

Wynterwade
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 01:29 PM
Is there any merit to things circulating around conspiracy on the subject of 911?

No. None of the conspiracies are convincing. Most conspiracies are destroyed through engineering studies. There is already a thread about 9-11 on here where I spent a few hours looking over evidence again (for the millionth time) and I'm not going to waste more of my time showing why conspiracies are stupid.

SaxonPagan
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 01:57 PM
No. None of the conspiracies are convincing. Most conspiracies are destroyed through engineering studies. There is already a thread about 9-11 on here where I spent a few hours looking over evidence again (for the millionth time) and I'm not going to waste more of my time showing why conspiracies are stupid.

Wynterwade, you have already made this blanket statement before without being able to back it up. Once again, there are no facts in there - just the claim that you have proven something when in fact you haven't! I believe this is the thread you are referring to ...

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=136003

The thread above was moved from another one because, on this occasion, you had professed to be an expert and stated "I have spent dozens of hours examining all the evidence and there is no doubt whatsoever about the events of 9/11".

PLEASE RE-READ!!!

Wynterwade
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Thanks for showing the link.

If any of you are interested in this discussion click it- I let them pick their best arguments- then I showed how they were all wrong. Then I showed the holy grails in evidence which disprove 99% of conspiracy theories. I don't have all day to debate conspiracy theories so I cannot answer every argument. I have nothing else to say.

wittwer
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 02:52 PM
There will be conspiracy theories surrounding the 9/11 events well into the future. Such as the Kennedy Assassination. Every should know by now that the hit was really ordered by the Texas Democratic Party in order to get LBJ the Oval Office and the Presidency and get that Eastern Liberal out of government. ;)

Or that the 9/11 events were really nothing more than an attempt by New York Real Estate Speculators to clear those buildings out so that they could purchase the property at "Fire Sale" Prices (no pun intended) and redevelop the property for their own profit.

These two "conspiracy theories" make about as much sense as what I've read here... ;)

SaxonPagan
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 06:01 PM
... but not the slightest hint of a valid counterargument to any of the points raised!

Landers
Sunday, November 7th, 2010, 11:27 PM
No. None of the conspiracies are convincing. Most conspiracies are destroyed through engineering studies. There is already a thread about 9-11 on here where I spent a few hours looking over evidence again (for the millionth time) and I'm not going to waste more of my time showing why conspiracies are stupid.

David Ray Griffin and, for example, the fire fighters for 9/11 truth have demolished all of the issues surrounding this.

EQ Fighter
Thursday, November 11th, 2010, 04:25 AM
Governments being the mechanism that control and reign the balances of power where conspiracy is a necessity of any influence of power in that the powerful necessitate the need to conspire against the rest for control. ;)


EXACTLY!
You hit the nail on the head.

But the issue is people are beginning to learn that WE don't really need them, in order to live our lives. What we really need are the goods and services that are created in society, without all the BS, and warped morality plays we get from western governments.


On top of that, those "Morality Plays" are in fact destroying the very thing they say the are protecting. Europe for instance, would have had some economic protection had they not formed the EU-SSR The centralization, simply allowed the financial crisis to go from country to country. And this is why we hear Americans stating we want less centralized government.




There's much to wonder about, the official story though is inconsistent with the actual damages, so the official story is pretty much complete BS.

Well knowing the history of the CIA, and FBI, I can tell you out of hand that ANY STORY coming from the various US Federal Agency's is complete Bull Sh!t.

Everything from concocting UFO stories, in the 1950's, to wasting money on some garbage called "Project Stargate" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project) where they were supposedly training psychic to remotely mentally view the inside of Russian Military complexes.

To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure the people that work in these agency's should be considered sane individuals, much less consider what they release as any approximation of Facts. It is ALLAYS just BS.

Leonhardt
Sunday, November 14th, 2010, 04:37 PM
There has been a lot of speculation over the facts of the pentagon crash. Many eyewitness said they saw an airplane flying low on that day.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ppfinal.html

The questions arise from the discrepancies in the flight recorder data, and the government's refusal to release all the surveillance camera footage that was confiscated that day.

FBI Claims 84 Videos
Show NO Flight 77 Impact
By Jon Carlson
http://www.rense.com/general67/fbicl.htm

Possible part of the answer, has pictures of actual crash scene engine. Flight 77 was supposed to be a 757.

CLEARLY the four foot diameter JT8D engine is not a eight foot diameter Boeing 757 engine. Since two engines were recovered at the Pentagon it is known the Pentagon aircraft carried two engines under the wings. The 737-100 and 737-200 used this engine.
http://www.rense.com/general67/911eng.htm


Hani Hanjour, took a 757, with zero time in type, did the maneuver described above, a 400 knot 330 degree sprialing dive at 2500 fpm, only gaining 30 knots, then 30 knots more descending from 2200 feet at full power, with a very steady hand as to not overshoot or hit the lawn, inside ground effect, at 460 knots impact speed, but was refused to rent a 172 cause he couldnt land it at 65 knots? C'mon... sounds like a bad B movie...

My conclusion is, the manever looks possible, for guys like me and you ( professional pilots). But for Hani? unlikely. He either got REALLY lucky, or someone/something else was flying that plane. Sure wish we had clear video of a 757 hitting the pentagon to silence all these "Conspiracy theorists". They want us to believe the pentagon is only covered by a parking gate camera? C'mon...
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html

Caledonian
Saturday, December 18th, 2010, 10:38 PM
xU4GdHLUHwU

flemish
Sunday, December 19th, 2010, 11:06 AM
You can log on to David Duke's website, and watch a Youtube video which shows footage and live news reports from the day it happened which get you wondering if the official story is true or not. There were all of these people claiming they heard explosions going off in the base of the building, and even Henry Gibson(ABC News announcer)said the explosion appeared to be controlled; not caused by the planes crashing into the buildings.
Another thing, a few years ago; the History Channel aired a show which compared the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings to the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 A.D;). What was so unbelievable was that the "expert" on the show was trying to scientifically explain how the clothing in the boutiques on the ground floor of each building ended up neatly folded in the vehicles of the firemen who showed up at the scene without being manually placed in them. He was actually trying to say that they just landed in them during the explosion. It's like every official story about what happened is nothing more than bullshit.
Here's one more thing which gets you wondering about the official story. Our southern border wasn't sealed up after the attacks. Only seventy percent of the people who are caught illegally entering our country via Mexico are latin american. The rest are from Asia and Africa. A year or two after the attacks, several men from Iraq were apprehended trying to enter the U.S. through the southern border at the very same time we were claiming Iraq was such a threat to the U.S.; yet, nothing has been done to curb the illegal entry problem here in the U.S. If the official story about the attacks on 9/11 were true, then we would have immediately attempted to eliminate the problem of illegal immigration for the sake of keeping people out to harm the U.S. from getting into the country. Instead, our government has been tolerating the influx of millions of illegal aliens from all around the world. That tells me that the American government doesn't think there is an outside threat it needs to worry about, even though it claims there is.
Again, the fact that the border wasn't sealed up immediately after the attacks tells me that the American government knows more than it's telling the public about what happened, and doesn't feel that there are enough potential dangers from foreign terrorist to warrant keeping unknown/undocumented people out. If the official story were entirely true, the borders would have been manned with thousands of troops ready to fire on anyone who came near it; after nineteen foreigners supposedly ended their lives for the sake of killing thousands of people on American soil.

MCP3
Sunday, December 19th, 2010, 07:49 PM
9-11 Firefighters-Three Secondary Explosions in Lobby of WTC (http://www.bushstole04.com/second_page.htm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&feature=player_embedded&v=FGGP20137SA
FGGP20137SA