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Unregistered
Thursday, October 28th, 2010, 10:05 PM
I am wondering if Italians are considered Germanic. After the Roman Empire fell, the Ostrogoths set up a kingdom in Italy, but I'm not sure how much impact they had on present day Italians. Im 25% Italian. My Great Grandmother was from Rome, and My great grandfather was from Bari(Yes, I know thats in southern Italy, but he was not a dark skinned moorish person. He had pale skin and red hair.

Rhobot
Friday, October 29th, 2010, 06:16 AM
Not as a whole. There are ethnic Germans in Alto Adige/Sudtirol- they are of Germanic ancestry, language and culture. Those are the only Italians who can be considered Germanic.
As for Germanic ancestry, that's a different matter. A fair number of Italians (especially in the North) likely have Germanic ancestry from the Lombards and Goths, and some southerners probably have Norman ancestry. (Haplogroup I1, common in Scandinavia, occurs in low frequencies in Sicily).

Wittmann
Friday, October 29th, 2010, 07:01 AM
Although the Italians, overall, are nor Germanic, I cannot help but feel a deep respect for them, especially because of their advanced technology and culture during the Roman Empire, I very much like Italians.

Fyrgenholt
Friday, October 29th, 2010, 02:06 PM
The Italians are not Germanic. Their language is that of the Romance branch, as too is their culture.

Northern Paladin
Friday, October 29th, 2010, 02:18 PM
and have you ever seen their faces? they're less white than polacks

wittwer
Friday, October 29th, 2010, 06:45 PM
Some are. The East Goths, aka Ostrogoths, migrated into Italy and under their leader Theodoric the Great established the Kingdom of Italy and protected what was left of the Western Roman Empire and her citizens. Predominately the "Boot" and portions of North Italy where the population was predominately Gothic. Over time they merged with the indigineous population.

So, yes, some Italians can claim descent from the Germanic Tribes...

DerWeißeWehrwolf
Thursday, November 25th, 2010, 09:47 AM
Although the Italians, overall, are nor Germanic, I cannot help but feel a deep respect for them, especially because of their advanced technology and culture during the Roman Empire, I very much like Italians.

Do you realize that italians during the "roman empire" stole all technology, culture & govt ideals from the greeks? Italians did not create any of it & they sure as hell are not germanic. end of story.

joyce
Saturday, January 1st, 2011, 08:08 PM
No, they're Latin Europeans; just like Romanians, French, Spaniards and Portuguese.

Physically, they have a more Mediterranean physique (hairy body, olive skin, darker hair/eyes).

Chamiz
Thursday, January 20th, 2011, 12:26 AM
what is the fact, that makes them germanic? Language? then thy could be. the relation to german is far, but there is one.

Religion? than the they could be. some of the north italic tribes believed in the same gods than the germans.

what about the Gauls? the Rus, the Scyth? all indo-germanic language. even the Uyghur (tribe of the golden Horde) spoke a language close to german. closer than Latin.

make a definition of beeing from german origin and get an answer :)

Aragorn
Saturday, January 22nd, 2011, 08:01 AM
I am wondering if Italians are considered Germanic. After the Roman Empire fell, the Ostrogoths set up a kingdom in Italy, but I'm not sure how much impact they had on present day Italians. Im 25% Italian. My Great Grandmother was from Rome, and My great grandfather was from Bari(Yes, I know thats in southern Italy, but he was not a dark skinned moorish person. He had pale skin and red hair.

Italians aren't Germanic, but there is obviously lots of Germanic influence in Italy, f.ex. there are many Italian surname of Germanic origin, and lots of Italians have German, Bavarian or Austrian ancestry, Garibaldi himself had partly German ancestry.

Esp. Northern Italy (Padania), is leaning to its Celto-Germanic hereitage.

Caledonian
Saturday, January 22nd, 2011, 08:10 AM
No they are not. [The overall majority anyways.]

flâneur
Saturday, January 22nd, 2011, 08:40 AM
No they are not.

You state that with certainty yet in another thread are convinced the Irish are Germanic.
The Italians have had as much Germanic domination as the Irish yet one is Germanic and another isnt.
I find your double standards quite amusing.

Caledonian
Saturday, January 22nd, 2011, 09:42 AM
You state that with certainty yet in another thread are convinced the Irish are Germanic.
The Italians have had as much Germanic domination as the Irish yet one is Germanic and another isnt.
I find your double standards quite amusing.

I kinda expected a remark like this with the latest recent conversations in other threads.

If you wish to debate history Tommy somthing of which I'm very keen at we could say Italy in no way has had ten to eleven centuries of being dominated by Scandinavians, Anglo Saxons, and Germanics like Ireland has where Italy has been less affected thus retaining it's largely Romano Latinized mediterranean population.

I'll look forward to your futurue historical debates in other threads.

For now I have nothing else to say in order to not detract the subject of this particular thread.

flâneur
Saturday, January 22nd, 2011, 12:33 PM
If you wish to debate history Tommy somthing of which I'm very keen at we could say Italy in no way has had ten to eleven centuries of being dominated by Scandinavians, Anglo Saxons, and Germanics like Ireland has where Italy has been less affected thus retaining it's largely Romano Latinized mediterranean population.


Just as i look forward to your evidence in the form of DNA studies that the celt has been bred out of the Irish and they are basically a mix of Anglo Saxon/Viking/Scandinaivian Germanics.

Being keen on history and knowing what you are talking about are two different things.

Northern Paladin
Saturday, January 22nd, 2011, 04:19 PM
Do you realize that italians during the "roman empire" stole all technology, culture & govt ideals from the greeks? Italians did not create any of it & they sure as hell are not germanic. end of story.

I know this is tangential to the matter at hand, so I apologize for that, but Is it true that these original Greeks were blond and totally White compared to the stocky, swarthy folks who inhabit Greece today?

Granraude
Saturday, January 22nd, 2011, 04:27 PM
Sure, some Italians may look like north-west Europeans, but that alone does not make them Germanic. Romance culture and Romance language.



I know this is tangential to the matter at hand, so I apologize for that, but Is it true that these original Greeks were blond and totally White compared to the stocky, swarthy folks who inhabit Greece today?

True or not, some of them are certainly depicted that way in ancient art.

flâneur
Sunday, January 23rd, 2011, 02:16 PM
In the northern Italian region of Trentino Alto Adige and also various northern enclaves of Friuli Veneziai Giulia you will find ethnic Germans.
The German language is spoken first with the Italian language being taught in schools as a second language.
The surnames of the people there are also Germanic,names such as Kostner,Muller,etc being the norm rather than Italian sounding surnames.

The road signs are German with Italian written underneath,i would say these people are Germanic and hold on to their customs,language,and way of life with a vengeance.

Hilderinc
Sunday, January 23rd, 2011, 09:31 PM
http://forums.skadi.net/photoplog/images/35509/1_Language_Groups_in_South_Tyrol_-_Census_2001.png

Leonhardt
Sunday, January 23rd, 2011, 10:54 PM
In addition to the Ostrogoths, the Visigoths, Franks and Longobardi spent some time in Northern Italy also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombardy
The Ostrogoths were said to have mixed into the Italian population.

Rome is finally retaken by Byzantium, which governs Italy from Ravenna. This is the end of Ostrogothic rule in Italy. The Ostrogoths themselves eventually merge into the general Italian population, becoming indivisible from them. However, the Tauric Ostrogoths still retain an independent identity
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/BarbarianVisigoths.htm
Some of the Roman legions consisted Germanic troops. There were also some Germanic Praetorian Guards, and
Cohors Germanorum (LA): the unit of Germani custodes corporis (imperial body guards recruited in Germania).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohort_%28military_unit%29

Also, the Vatican Guard is composed of Swiss Guards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard

Sicily was used as a base during the Viking age. I am not sure if the Vandals left any inputs there.

In conclusion, some Italians could be partially Germanic, or still be showing Germanic characteristics.

Elessar
Sunday, January 23rd, 2011, 11:20 PM
Hell, if the Irish are, why not Italians? Why not Algerians and Tunisians?
Vandals settled that area...once..

flâneur
Monday, January 24th, 2011, 07:05 AM
Hell, if the Irish are, why not Italians? Why not Algerians and Tunisians?
Vandals settled that area...once..

Nobody said the Italians as a whole are Germanic,there are certain enclaves still in the north of Italy where German is still spoken as the first language and where the have Germanic heritage and blood.

Visit the place and you might be able to make up an opinion for yourself based on experience...instead of sitting on your arse in bumfuck USA.;)

Nachtengel
Monday, January 24th, 2011, 07:21 AM
http://forums.skadi.net/photoplog/images/35509/1_Language_Groups_in_South_Tyrol_-_Census_2001.png

South Tyrol. It is not Italian by any stretch of imagination. The people speaking German there are Germans and consider themselves such. There are political movements for autonomy or independence from Italy.

Freedom for South Tyrol

http://forums.skadi.net/photoplog/images/25637/large/1_freiheit-fur-sudtirol.jpg

A unified Tyrol (Greater Tyrol anyone? :D)

http://forums.skadi.net/photoplog/images/25637/large/1_vereintes_tirol.png

Thusnelda
Monday, January 24th, 2011, 01:21 PM
In the northern Italian region of Trentino Alto Adige and also various northern enclaves of Friuli Veneziai Giulia you will find ethnic Germans.
There´s no Alto Adige, there´s only South Tyrol or Südtirol. We shouldn´t use the wrong and false titling of the occupants. :|

The surnames of the people there are also Germanic,names such as Kostner,Muller,etc being the norm rather than Italian sounding surnames.
That´s because South Tyrol has been split off from Austria and the rest of the state of Tirol after the First World War.

The road signs are German with Italian written underneath,i would say these people are Germanic and hold on to their customs,language,and way of life with a vengeance.
That´s true and that´s the reason why the existence of South Tyrol as a state of Italy is a crime. :thumbdown

Elessar
Monday, January 24th, 2011, 05:54 PM
Nobody said the Italians as a whole are Germanic,there are certain enclaves still in the north of Italy where German is still spoken as the first language and where the have Germanic heritage and blood.

Visit the place and you might be able to make up an opinion for yourself based on experience...instead of sitting on your arse in bumfuck USA.;)

If you took me for serious, that's a shame.
That there are German Enclaves in Italy is a given. You'd have to be pretty daft not to realize.

And I wouldn't trade bumfuck USA for Multikulti Londonistan England any day ;)

Horex
Friday, January 28th, 2011, 10:12 PM
Hell, if the Irish are, why not Italians? Why not Algerians and Tunisians?
Vandals settled that area...once..

Dennis Hopper said it quite well in the movie "True Romance" to a Italian gangster (gangster a common trade in Italy)
Quote:
Ya know, I read a lot. Especially about things… about history. I find that shit fascinating. Here’s a fact I don’t know whether you know or not. Sicilians were spawned by niggers. It’s a fact. Yeah. You see, uh, Sicilians have, uh, black blood pumpin’ through their hearts. Hey, no, if eh, if eh, if you don’t believe me, uh, you can look it up. Hundreds and hundreds of years ago, uh, you see, uh, the Moors conquered Sicily. And the Moors are niggers. So you see, way back then, uh, Sicilians were like, uh, wops from Northern Italy. Ah, they all had blonde hair and blue eyes, but, uh, well, then the Moors moved in there, and uh, well, they changed the whole country. They did so much fuckin’ with Sicilian women, huh? That they changed the whole bloodline forever. That’s why blonde hair and blue eyes became black hair and dark skin. You know, it’s absolutely amazing to me to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, that, uh, that Sicilians still carry that nigger gene. Now this…No, I’m, no, I’m quoting… history. It’s written. It’s a fact, it’s written. Your ancestors are niggers. Uh-huh. Hey. Yeah. And, and your great-great-great-great grandmother fucked a nigger, ho, ho, yeah, and she had a half-nigger kid… now, if that’s a fact, tell me, am I lying? ‘Cause you, you’re part eggplant.

Aragorn
Tuesday, February 1st, 2011, 10:32 AM
Italy is just a geographic name. Between North and South Italy is a world of differences, in culture, mentality and in race.

Tancred
Tuesday, February 8th, 2011, 12:05 AM
You state that with certainty yet in another thread are convinced the Irish are Germanic.
The Italians have had as much Germanic domination as the Irish yet one is Germanic and another isnt.
I find your double standards quite amusing.

The Irish have been much more influenced by Germanic tribes (eg. the Vikings) than the Italians, and the original Celts (probaby of Iberian origin) were gradually outnumbered by the Germanics ove time. However in the south and west of Ireland you can still notice the Celtic-Iberian traits.

The Italians, on the other hand, always outnumbered by the Germanic invaders (eg. Goths and Lombards) who established an aristocracy over them. Today, most upper class Italians have Germanic ethnic origin while the majority of the population is mixed. Infact, Italians are one of the most mixed European nations in terms of racial origin, with most white racial elements present: mediterrenean, dinaric, alpine and even nordic (5% or so).

Tancred
Tuesday, February 8th, 2011, 12:06 AM
Dennis Hopper said it quite well in the movie "True Romance" to a Italian gangster (gangster a common trade in Italy)
Quote:
Ya know, I read a lot. Especially about things… about history. I find that shit fascinating. Here’s a fact I don’t know whether you know or not. Sicilians were spawned by niggers. It’s a fact. Yeah. You see, uh, Sicilians have, uh, black blood pumpin’ through their hearts. Hey, no, if eh, if eh, if you don’t believe me, uh, you can look it up. Hundreds and hundreds of years ago, uh, you see, uh, the Moors conquered Sicily. And the Moors are niggers. So you see, way back then, uh, Sicilians were like, uh, wops from Northern Italy. Ah, they all had blonde hair and blue eyes, but, uh, well, then the Moors moved in there, and uh, well, they changed the whole country. They did so much fuckin’ with Sicilian women, huh? That they changed the whole bloodline forever. That’s why blonde hair and blue eyes became black hair and dark skin. You know, it’s absolutely amazing to me to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, that, uh, that Sicilians still carry that nigger gene. Now this…No, I’m, no, I’m quoting… history. It’s written. It’s a fact, it’s written. Your ancestors are niggers. Uh-huh. Hey. Yeah. And, and your great-great-great-great grandmother fucked a nigger, ho, ho, yeah, and she had a half-nigger kid… now, if that’s a fact, tell me, am I lying? ‘Cause you, you’re part eggplant.

This is pure and utter bullshit.

Tancred
Tuesday, February 8th, 2011, 12:14 AM
Hell, if the Irish are, why not Italians? Why not Algerians and Tunisians?
Vandals settled that area...once..

A facetious remark as obviously Algerians and Tunisians are genetically much more remote to Germanics than Italians.

boudicca
Tuesday, April 19th, 2011, 05:03 AM
Some Italians are, there usually found in the Northern areas like Milan and Venice. Milan is full of tall beautiful women (It's the fashion capital of the world).

Unregistered
Thursday, April 28th, 2011, 01:39 PM
Some Italians are, there usually found in the Northern areas like Milan and Venice. Milan is full of tall beautiful women (It's the fashion capital of the world).

Most of people in Milan are of southern italian origin. True northern italians can be found in the rural areas and in small cities like Bergamo, Alessandria, Verona, Udine etc...

Goomer
Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 11:45 AM
Northern Italians tend to have more Germanic features....taller, lighter skin, lighter hair and eyes as well.

My Husband is Northern Italian, Swedish, German, English, and Irish. He looks VERY fair. All of his kids are light as well.

I've been told the strongest Germanic/Celtic influence in Italy is the Northern Part.

SwissPeter
Tuesday, June 7th, 2011, 08:41 PM
Ostogoths, Franks and Lombards were germanic and account for most of the light hair/eyes in Italy today. But earlier during the Roman Empire there was much breeding between the native Italic tribes and their slaves, such as north africans, so the base population was quite dark. Ticino region has a large germanic influence and recent mixture with Germans. Italians hold 40% of the jobs in Ticino, because they work for lower wages than the Swiss, causing high unemployement in the region, But French/German part of Switzerland don't care about them because they are only 8% of the population, they just think they are a swarthy nuisance.
Italian businesses come to Switzerland for lower taxes and less corrupt beaurocracy that is rife in their homeland. Italians don't seem to be able to look after themselves since the fall of the empire, even that was an overated and barbaric reign of terror, and just look at the state of them now, if they were not being propped up by the EU subsidies they would be on a similar level to the balkans, as would Spain,Portugal,Greece etc (all the med places) and even most of France. That is why they are all pro EU. Take away the funding provided by western Germany and southeast England and the whole infernal system would collapse, this United European States was set up to reward the lazy and corrupt at the expense of the hard work and sweat of the productive germanics.

Unregistered
Friday, July 8th, 2011, 12:30 PM
if they were not being propped up by the EU subsidies they would be on a similar level to the balkans, as would Spain,Portugal,Greece etc (all the med places) and even most of France. That is why they are all pro EU. Take away the funding provided by western Germany and southeast England and the whole infernal system would collapse, this United European States was set up to reward the lazy and corrupt at the expense of the hard work and sweat of the productive germanics.

Total bullshit. As you can see in this map, Italy is one of main subsiders of EU.

http://eagereyes.org/media/2010/EUfunding-small.jpg

Most italians are anti-euro and anti-EU. Trust me I am italian.

Aerindis
Friday, July 29th, 2011, 05:49 PM
I've always wondered this too. I am also 25% Italian - though my family are from a tiny village in the mountains bordering Switzerland. Rumour in the family suggests that my great great grandfather was from Austria. Some members of my purely Italian family are blond and blue-eyed - I have always presumed that was from Germanic influence.

Sigurd
Friday, July 29th, 2011, 09:20 PM
The surnames of the people there are also Germanic,names such as Kostner,Muller,etc being the norm rather than Italian sounding surnames.

Kostner is an ill example for this, it is a Germanicised Ladin surname, much like let's say Senoner or Kompatscher; a longer list for this is here (http://www.vejin.com/familienname.html). ;)


The road signs are German with Italian written underneath,i would say these people are Germanic and hold on to their customs,language,and way of life with a vengeance.

Most road signs are Italian first, with German second; sometimes it is the other way round and in Ladin-majority villages the order is usually Ladin > German > Italian.

Some Italian names are beyond ridiculous. In the village of Brenner, right at the pass and unrightful border, you have a Via Giovanni Wolfgango Goethe; not to mention geonyms such as Monte Luigi for Linsberg, Monte Fumo for Rauchkogel or Moso for Moos. :|

That being said, between the wars much use of the German language was forbidden. German tuition was forbidden from 1923 onwards, the teachers that continued (like Josef Noldin) often arrested and executed. German Newspapers, with the exception of one state-controlled paper, were forbidden between 1923 and 1927 (Vatican intervention saw for re-allowance), from 1925 legal proceedings had to be in Italian, and...

...in 1927, it was prohibited by law to have German-language inscriptions on tombstones! :|

Arditi
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2011, 10:03 PM
I have a bit of italian blood. It is from the north, from a noble family of lombard ancestry, and I can trace the lineage 1500 back. The family has deep connections with austrian nobility. Yet, back to the topic, italians are not germanic, because germanic is a cultural/linguistic denomination, and italians are a latin culturaly. As for the blood, most northern italians have "germanic" blood, but mixed with regular italian blood.

GeistFaust
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2011, 10:37 PM
I am only 1/8th Italian but the side from the Southern part originally from the Central part were Blonde haired and blue eyed and I have no reason to know at all also for some reason there is always a rumor about Austrians in the family.

Gardisten
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2011, 11:31 PM
Let's not confuse modern Italians with the Romans. The Romans may have become an advanced society and established one of the great empires in western civilization, they did so because they borrowed much from other cultures and relied heavily on foreign manpower to defend their territory. Roman society was extremely decadent and the rulers during the imperial period were almost universally perverts and psychopaths.


Although the Italians, overall, are nor Germanic, I cannot help but feel a deep respect for them, especially because of their advanced technology and culture during the Roman Empire, I very much like Italians.

ThroughTheAges
Saturday, August 20th, 2011, 10:18 PM
Lombards settled down in Northern Italy, and some other tribes even went further south. It's funny how Italians are stereotypically short and swarthy, but some of the more famous professional wrestlers of the 20th century were large men of Italian ancestry. Hulk Hogan (Terrance Bollea), Bruno Sammartino, Angelo Poffo, etc. were pretty large men and had some Germanic features (esp. Hogan). Sammartino was an immigrant and sounded a lot like Arnold trying to speak English. It was far from the stereotypical Sicillian/NY accent. Another example of Northern Italians is the model/sex symbol Fabio. He also sounds more German/alpine than Sicillian. It's evident just from these famous examples that there is plenty of Germanic influence, both linguistically and genetically, in Italy.

Unregistered
Saturday, August 20th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Well, Italy is a rather mixed country. North Italy and South are basically two different nations. The southerners, especially the Sicilians, are heavily race-mixed and "swarthy". The northerners are generally fairer.

That said, Italy still has the highest IQ average in Europe (shared first place with Germany and Austria). Mainly because of the northerners.

Gardisten
Saturday, August 20th, 2011, 11:28 PM
Somebody deleted my Snooki/The Situation picture?

Rokrk
Monday, January 30th, 2012, 06:22 PM
how can we define germanic ?

merewif
Tuesday, January 31st, 2012, 11:34 AM
In an Art History course that focused on Prehistoric to the Renaissance period I was taught that the modern look of Mediterraneans was achieved by mixing with people from the Middle East. I will look more into it, but I would say that does not make Germanic. Also.. the fact that Romans were the conquers and enemy of the "barbarians" as well as held central power in the Church, converted Charlemagne who then forcefully spread Christianity.. umm I don't know so much about them being Germanic ;)

Tom Schnadelbach
Monday, February 6th, 2012, 07:52 AM
This is pure and utter bullshit.

No, it's not. The moors are not fullblood negroids, they are more like Moroccans, which is where the word "moor" came from, but the negroid strain is there, and they did conquer Sicily and parts of southern Italy. They raped and pillaged. Especially raped.

Unregistered
Wednesday, February 8th, 2012, 06:11 PM
In an Art History course that focused on Prehistoric to the Renaissance period I was taught that the modern look of Mediterraneans was achieved by mixing with people from the Middle East.

Italians have Levantine influences, but they are very ancient from neolitich revolution (8000 B.C.) rather than recent admixture. However all Euopeans have low traces of middleastern admixture. (Ethnic Germans were 9% Levantine last time I checked).


No, it's not. The moors are not fullblood negroids, they are more like Moroccans, which is where the word "moor" came from, but the negroid strain is there, and they did conquer Sicily and parts of southern Italy. They raped and pillaged. Especially raped.

Pure North Africans are berbers, so white caucasoids. They mixed with negroids in last few centuries. Today's Sicilians have about 1% negroid amixture (average North Africans are 20/30% negroid).