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View Full Version : Germanics Vs. Natives Intelligence



Wittmann
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 07:15 AM
Let us view intellect in the form of mental capacity for something as simple as art/culture.

Native Americans

1200s-1800s
http://www.abdnha.org/images/04_rockart/image_03b.jpg

Germanics/Mediterraneans
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/God2-Sistine_Chapel.png

Compare?

SpearBrave
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 12:27 PM
Injuns 1700 - still using stone tools, bow and arrow, spears, and has to drive large herds of animals over a cliff to get food, still wearing animal skins, lives from hand to mouth on a seasonal diet.

Germanics 1700- has developed refined iron and steel, firearms, ships that sail around the world, written language, can grow and manage food supplies from year to year, cloth clothing.

Magni
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 10:29 PM
I have to play devil's advocate here. Metal working reached western Europe via the Middle East/eastern Mediterranean . There was no such contact with the Americas.


As for art and culture, Franz Boas definitely promoted an agenda driven pseudoscience but that comparison is pretty shit too.


Compare Babylon to contemporary NW Europe, or Egypt. It will look just as ridiculous.

Lots of native Americans grew crops too. Just not the one who inhabited the plains.


In the thread title you say Germanics and then you change to Germanic/Med in the post while showing some Italian art.

This entire post is made of fail and bad history.

Sorry

Wynterwade
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 11:10 PM
This is an interesting clash of what the cultures were actually like- between Europe and the Americas- when they first met.

A painting doesn't really show intelligence- though to some extent it does. What if that cave painting was done by a child. The characteristics of art stem from a combination of intelligence and learned cultural knowledge.

Yeah Natives had lower intelligence (read 10,00 year explosion for the reasons why their intelligence didn't come about), but they also had much less cultural knowledge (no art schools for example).

Elessar
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 11:12 PM
I believe this lies with the favoritism of Europe culture just because of their technological and artistic advances.

Who are we to say that the European way of life has benefited us in the long run?
If everyone in the world were to behave like a Native American there would be no environmental destruction or depletion, no major social dis-cohesion, and no self destruction.
Remember now, it's because of these advances and the irresponsibility to use them wisely that the earth is in such peril.

The "cards" were not in their favor if you like. North America was isolated from the rest of Humanity which played and shared with each other technological advances that certain cultures capitalized on and some discarded. Then when those who were technologically advanced arrived (Spaniards, Portugese, Dutch, and English) they destroyed and demonized the sustainable native folk and culture.

Frankly I find it offensive that you would belittle a piece of folk art.

SpearBrave
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 12:34 AM
I have to play devil's advocate here. Metal working reached western Europe via the Middle East/eastern Mediterranean . There was no such contact with the Americas.


Well to say devil's advocate in relation to metal working actually could be quite true. As in certain myths people who worked in iron were sure to go to hell as they employed the devil's powers.:P

Metal working did start in the Middle East, but it was us who made the best uses of it. There is enough proof of Metal working skills of Germanics that it should not even be debatable.



Lots of native Americans grew crops too. Just not the one who inhabited the plains.


Sure they grew crops, but they did not have a crop rotation program like those of Medieval Europeans. Nor did they utilize the soil to its best advantage. When the soil was depleted they moved the whole village. Not to mention outside of a few turkeys they had no skills in animal husbandry. Ever wonder why they had low population per area, when their resources were depleted in a area they had to move on or starve.



Who are we to say that the European way of life has benefited us in the long run?
If everyone in the world were to behave like a Native American there would be no environmental destruction or depletion, no major social dis-cohesion, and no self destruction.
Remember now, it's because of these advances and the irresponsibility to use them wisely that the earth is in such peril.

The "cards" were not in their favor if you like. North America was isolated from the rest of Humanity which played and shared with each other technological advances that certain cultures capitalized on and some discarded. Then when those who were technologically advanced arrived (Spaniards, Portugese, Dutch, and English) they destroyed and demonized the sustainable native folk and culture.


This is based of the false idea of the noble red man. When fact they were not all that noble as I stated above. As far as them being subjugated it was bound to happen and is part of our history. The whole idea we should feel guilty for what happened to the red man is the same kind of placed on us for slavery.;)

Elessar
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 12:45 AM
This is based of the false idea of the noble red man. When fact they were not all that noble as I stated above. As far as them being subjugated it was bound to happen and is part of our history. The whole idea we should feel guilty for what happened to the red man is the same kind of placed on us for slavery.;)

An idea I don't subscribe to. I realize not all Natives (ancient or modern) were peaceful or good caretakers of the earth, archaeological evidence supports this. Nevertheless, the ills of Western society were not known in the Americas until the arrival of Columbus.
Odd how "whites" claim to be a dying race when Natives have taken a nose dive since their arrival.

wittwer
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 01:02 AM
The first Europeans to land in N.A. died out or left. Some examples are Roanoke Island and the Vikings, their technological superiority not withstanding. There wasn't a successful European Colony until those "ignorant-stone age" people took them underwing and taught them how to survive on and in the Land. Although, they may be "ignorant-stone age" peoples, I doubt we Moderns for all our "intelligence" and "technical savvy" could survive on the land without our modern conviences and life support systems. As an example, does any one here know how to convert Acorns into edible flour. Is the Cattail edible? What is White Snake Root good for? How does one harvest Wild Rice? What are the best nutritional crops to produce and how? And the list goes on and on and on...

Yep, them Native Peoples sure were ignorant. ;)

SpearBrave
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 01:16 AM
The first Europeans to land in N.A. died out or left. Some examples are Roanoke Island and the Vikings, their technological superiority not withstanding. There wasn't a successful European Colony until those "ignorant-stone age" people took them underwing and taught them how to survive on and in the Land. Although, they may be "ignorant-stone age" peoples, I doubt we Moderns for all our "intelligence" and "technical savvy" could survive on the land without our modern conviences and life support systems. As an example, does any one here know how to convert Acorns into edible flour. Is the Cattail edible? What is White Snake Root good for? How does one harvest Wild Rice? What are the best nutritional crops to produce and how? And the list goes on and on and on...

Yep, them Native Peoples sure were ignorant. ;)

To all those things - yes I do and so does my woman.:thumbup

There are more people then you might think that are into woods lore.

Despite that the first settlers at Roanoke were more of the gentile class searching for gold and less interested in settling the land.

The vikings that came here were too few in number to even take into account other than discovery.

If these settlers were so much less then the natives how did they take hold. Most historical accounts show that the colonist were most of the time fighting the natives. Not to mention the French and Spanish were also sending their native allies to fight the English and Dutch settlers.

Caledonian
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 02:06 AM
Europe was connected to other vast continents which made it easier to connect or trade vast amounts of ideas, advances, and knowledge versus the native americans that were on a isolated continent that wasn't discovered until the late fourteenth century. ;)

What does this prove?

Caledonian
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 02:14 AM
Well to say devil's advocate in relation to metal working actually could be quite true. As in certain myths people who worked in iron were sure to go to hell as they employed the devil's powers.:P

Metal working did start in the Middle East, but it was us who made the best uses of it. There is enough proof of Metal working skills of Germanics that it should not even be debatable.



Sure they grew crops, but they did not have a crop rotation program like those of Medieval Europeans. Nor did they utilize the soil to its best advantage. When the soil was depleted they moved the whole village. Not to mention outside of a few turkeys they had no skills in animal husbandry. Ever wonder why they had low population per area, when their resources were depleted in a area they had to move on or starve.



This is based of the false idea of the noble red man. When fact they were not all that noble as I stated above. As far as them being subjugated it was bound to happen and is part of our history. The whole idea we should feel guilty for what happened to the red man is the same kind of placed on us for slavery.;)



This is based of the false idea of the noble red man. When fact they were not all that noble as I stated above. As far as them being subjugated it was bound to happen and is part of our history. The whole idea we should feel guilty for what happened to the red man is the same kind of placed on us for slavery.;)

All societies and civilizations are savage where nobility is merely a fabrication to make ourselves feel better about ourselves when infact we are all equally barbarous.


As far as them being subjugated it was bound to happen and is part of our history. The whole idea we should feel guilty for what happened to the red man is the same kind of placed on us for slavery.;)

Maybe it was bound to happen and maybe it wasn't.

What is for sure is that we Europids are in bit of a quagmire because of our spreading to the four corners of the globe in that by doing so we have absorbed all these many different cultures and peoples leaving us in the multicultural disaster of which were in now that wouldn't be if we didn't expand the way we did in the past.

I kinda regret past historical western expansion around the globe because of the ills it has brought upon us today.

SpearBrave
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 02:21 AM
Europe was connected to other vast continents which made it easier to connect or trade vast amounts of ideas, advances, and knowledge versus the native americans that were on a isolated continent that wasn't discovered until the late fourteenth century.

What does this prove?


It proves nothing, if the red man was so smart he would have found his way back across the ocean and started trading with other continents.

I really do like some of their art work, but at best it is functional art and not high or fine art.

For some reason in the last fifty or so years we as Germanics have been trying to put these red men on a pedistal. In reality they were a stone age people thousands of years behind the rest of the world. Whether that be from isolation or lack of intelect it does not matter they were and still are a primative man compared to others in the world. In most cases they were won over by handful of shiny objects.

Oski
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 02:28 AM
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z89/arthurpendragone/crying-indian.jpg

SpearBrave
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 02:38 AM
All societies and civilizations are savage where nobility is merely a fabrication to make ourselves feel better about ourselves when infact we are all equally barbarous.


Well it really has nothing to with barbarism, the fact is we were far more advanced. Ever hear of the series about " Guns, Germs, and Steel " ?



Maybe it was bound to happen and maybe it wasn't.


It was surely bound to happen, because of our ability to survive and prosper we out grew the carrying capacity of Europe. When this happened we went searching for new land. We found it and claimed it for ourselves. It is really quite natural. What is not natural though is way we are losing our lands currently.



What is for sure is that we Europids are in bit of a quagmire because of our spreading to the four corners of the globe in that by doing so we have absorbed all these many different cultures and peoples leaving us in the multicultural disaster of which were in now that wouldn't be if we didn't expand the way we did in the past.


The current quagmire we are now facing is not because we expanded as a people. It is because of another people trying to enslave us and destroy our culture for their own greed.


I kinda regret past historical western expansion around the globe because of the ills it has brought upon us today.

Oh the day I would here such things from a preservationist.:~(

Really this sounds like White guilt. Get over it we conquered our lands, to victor go the spoils. Now I see people trying to conquer us, should we fight back and preserve our own kind? Yes of course we should, do you think these hordes will just stop at taking back land they lost fair and square, No they will not as proven by the amounts of dark immigrants settling in Europe.

Ediruc
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 02:46 AM
An advanced civilization meeting a primitive civilization, and there is a clash ...I wonder who will be triumphant. Oh, that's right, us. :thumbup

Caledonian
Thursday, October 21st, 2010, 03:11 AM
Well it really has nothing to with barbarism, the fact is we were far more advanced. Ever hear of the series about " Guns, Germs, and Steel " ?



It was surely bound to happen, because of our ability to survive and prosper we out grew the carrying capacity of Europe. When this happened we went searching for new land. We found it and claimed it for ourselves. It is really quite natural. What is not natural though is way we are losing our lands currently.



The current quagmire we are now facing is not because we expanded as a people. It is because of another people trying to enslave us and destroy our culture for their own greed.


Oh the day I would here such things from a preservationist.:~(

Really this sounds like White guilt. Get over it we conquered our lands, to victor go the spoils. Now I see people trying to conquer us, should we fight back and preserve our own kind? Yes of course we should, do you think these hordes will just stop at taking back land they lost fair and square, No they will not as proven by the amounts of dark immigrants settling in Europe.


Well it really has nothing to with barbarism, the fact is we were far more advanced. Ever hear of the series about " Guns, Germs, and Steel " ?

Then we were more advanced barbarians than the local barbarous inhabitants.


It was surely bound to happen, because of our ability to survive and prosper we out grew the carrying capacity of Europe. When this happened we went searching for new land. We found it and claimed it for ourselves. It is really quite natural.

I suppose.


What is not natural though is way we are losing our lands currently.

Agreed.


The current quagmire we are now facing is not because we expanded as a people. It is because of another people trying to enslave us and destroy our culture for their own greed.

I can concede to that.


Oh the day I would here such things from a preservationist.:~(

Really this sounds like White guilt. Get over it we conquered our lands, to victor go the spoils.

It's not really guilt as you articulated but rather I see alot of consequences of our expansion where we have basically inherited the after effects or repurcussions of those consequences with our expansion over the rest of the world. Does this make sense to you?


Now I see people trying to conquer us, should we fight back and preserve our own kind? Yes of course

Of course.



we should, do you think these hordes will just stop at taking back land they lost fair and square, No they will not as proven by the amounts of dark immigrants settling in Europe.

Agreed.