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Horagalles
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 12:31 PM
How Jewry works demonstrated at the example of Gill Marcus.

This topic may fit into more then one section, as it touches upon politics, human behavior, cultural anthropology and history.

From time to time issues regarding the Jews do come up. Often the question arises, whether they one should oppose them, embrace them or simply be neutral. Also whether "being Jewish" is about religion, ethnicity or race, whether Jews act harmful or whether "Antisemitism" is based on irrational myth.

So why not read what they Jews themselves got to say about one of their own. Let me do that using Gill Marcus as an example and then deal with what mentioned in the article to explain how Jewry works:

Gill Marcus and her family were actively involved in the socalled "struggle against Apartheid" meaning that they were active and even prominent members of the ANC and the South African Communist Party.





http://www.seedol.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Gill-Marcus.jpghttp://jwa.org/system/files/imagecache/default_full/mediaobjects/Marcus-Gill.jpg

“While I am not religious, I’m certainly very conscious and proud of being Jewish. Perhaps there is more of an awareness now of the traditions and rituals. But for me, the essence of my Jewishness is in trying to live a life that has value.”
In her service to her country and the contribution she has made to the functioning of a democratic society, Gill Marcus has certainly lived a life of value. Both in London and in South Africa, her adult life has been devoted to the cause of justice and democracy and her vigilance and constancy have done much to further those ends.
Gill Marcus, who never married, was born in Johannesburg in 1949. Her grandparents were from Lithuania but her parents, Molly and Nathan, were born in South Africa. Both her parents were members of the South African Communist Party and from an early age Gill was made aware of the iniquities of apartheid; the Marcus home, open to people across the color line, was very different from that of the average white South African household.
She enrolled for a Bachelor of Commerce degree at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg but did not become involved in student politics “because it didn’t seem like it could achieve anything.” Her studies were interrupted when she left South Africa for London in 1969 together with her parents, two sisters and a brother but she completed her degree by correspondence with the University of South Africa.
In London Gill ran the family salad bar in Knightsbridge. She joined the Communist Party and the African National Congress (ANC) and worked for the latter’s information-gathering department, becoming deputy secretary for information and, for fifteen years, editor of a news bulletin covering events in South Africa. Agents of the South African government were active in London, engaging in hit squad activities and acts of sabotage that included the bombing of the ANC offices in London.
When the ANC was unbanned in 1990 Gill Marcus returned to South Africa after spending twenty-one years in exile. She was among the first ANC members to return, having been asked by the organization to help set up structures, particularly a communications infrastructure, to prepare for the transition to democracy. She ran the ANC’s Department of Information and Publicity until 1994 and played a leading role in determining media policies for the ANC in the run-up to the first democratic elections in 1994.
She was elected to Parliament in the April 1994 election. After twenty-five years in communication and information, Gill wanted to do something different, something more practical in the area of delivery. Moving from the political to the economic arena, she became chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Finance in the National Assembly. Under her leadership, the Committee developed a reputation for accessibility, transparency and fearlessness in criticizing departmental and individual inefficiency.
Having proved herself in the erstwhile male province of finance, she became Deputy Finance Minister in 1996 and then Deputy Governor of the South African Reserve Bank in 1999. Her success in this area in a very male-oriented society was significant in terms of striking a blow for gender equality in the early years of democracy in South Africa. Although committed to the principle of gender equality, without any taint of tokenism, she is not an overt activist in the field.
In all her political and public activities Gill Marcus established a widely respected reputation for her extremely conscientious approach to her work and her efficient and effective administrative abilities. With a very deeply held belief in the potential of South Africa and its people, she is totally committed to the development of a flourishing civil society that protects the right to differ without incitement to violence or racial hatred.
While conscious and proud of her Jewish heritage, Gill Marcus is not religious in any active sense. She has always understood the Jewish tradition to be on the side of humanity against oppression and the essence of her Jewishness lies in trying to live a life that has value by making a contribution to others. The Holocaust had a profound effect on her from an early age and she believes that, although individual racism cannot be eradicated, institutional structures can prevent that racism from becoming too destructive or dangerous.
http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/marcus-gill (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjwa.org% 2Fencyclopedia%2Farticle%2Fmarcus-gill)

Let me point out a few issues here:
- The article clearly states that you do not need to be religious (i.e. practice Judaism) to be a Jew or have a Jewish identity.
- Communism is just fine it seems and it's not in conflict with civility or "democratic" society. Note that this is coming from a main-stream Jewish publication and isn't an isolated view.
- Ms. Marcus was a member of the Communist Party and so were here parents. In the context of the article this is even implied as an expression of Jewish identity.
- She worked in information and finance related areas on prominent positions.
- Note the profound influence of "the Holocaust".

flâneur
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 12:36 PM
Both her parents were members of the South African Communist Party and from an early age Gill was made aware of the iniquities of apartheid;

Wonder if she was made aware of the apartheid in Israel.....and what she did about it.

SaxonPagan
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 01:08 PM
Yes, the obnoxious Ms. Marcus certainly ticks all the required boxes!

However, for each one of her ilk there are a dozen or so others covering her back by pointing out that many non-Jews also work in finance, believe in democracy, fight for gender equality, are Communists, anti-racists etc…

I’m sure that such apologists will appear on this thread before long, thus giving us all a chance to admire their obfuscation at work ;)

Horagalles
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 03:23 PM
Both her parents were members of the South African Communist Party and from an early age Gill was made aware of the iniquities of apartheid;

Wonder if she was made aware of the apartheid in Israel.....and what she did about it.
That's a bit out of her time. But I'm not aware that she did say anything about it. There was however a Ronnie Kasrils, another Jewish Communist, who made quite critical remarks about Israel.


Yes, the obnoxious Ms. Marcus certainly ticks all the required boxes!
She's not the only one that does, just that she is far more nice to be classified in the physical anthropology section.


However, for each one of her ilk there are a dozen or so others covering her back by pointing out that many non-Jews also work in finance, believe in democracy, fight for gender equality, are Communists, anti-racists etc…
... Just that hardly any mainstream gentile publication would celebrate one of their own as a Communist.
And its not about the occurrence, but about the frequency. Check how many Jews are/were amongst those involved in the Anti-Apartheid struggle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-apartheid_activists
If you limit it to the Communist the proportions become even more clear.



I’m sure that such apologists will appear on this thread before long, thus giving us all a chance to admire their obfuscation at work ;)I dare them :D

velvet
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 03:52 PM
Wonder if she was made aware of the apartheid in Israel.....and what she did about it.

Such an evil word for the nice and caring Jews, how dare you :-O

Nah, Israel doesnt have Apardheid, they just are National Socialists, and as such, you can genocide other people as much as you want. Just when Whites do it, it is evil ;)

flâneur
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 05:05 PM
"Gill wanted to do something different, something more practical in the area of delivery. Moving from the political to the economic arena",


Surprise....surprise.....the jew wanted to be near the geld.I wonder if this was her own idea or she was told to get near the geld by her real masters back in Tel Aviv.
Im sure running that sandwich shop in Knightsbridge honed her economic skills to a fine edge........although managing Winnie Mandelas debts would make anyone an economic genius in no time flat.

Bittereinder
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 05:09 PM
I posted this (http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=1031538&postcount=97) in another thread, it is glaringly obvious that the jewish community opposed apartheid because black rule is preferable to white rule, it is simpiler for jews to make money of ignoranant negroids then of Germanics... However it is far easier to exploit a country if they run it themselves, thus "they" are the official opposition whom continue luring more gentiles into the hell which is jewish democrazy... Young Afrikaners are assisting the genocide against their own people like faithful Sabbat-Goi whether they know it or not, as long as they increase their personal standing they will collaborate in just about anything...

Here are some quotes I found on Wikipedia the other day and thought it corroborates some points made here by Horagalles.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Africa-jewish-population.jpg


...There is a substantial, mostly Ashkenazic Jewish community in South Africa. These Jews arrived mostly from Lithuania prior to World War II, though others have origins in Britain, Germany, and Eastern Europe. To a lesser extent, Sephardic Jews, primarily originating from the Island of Rhodes also settled in sub-Saharan Africa, in territories such as the Belgian Congo. Subsequently, members of these Jewish communities migrated to South Africa. Connected to them were the small European Jewish communities in Namibia (South West Africa), Zimbabwe (Southern Rhodesia), Lesotho (Basutuland), Swaziland, Botswana (Bechuanaland), Zaire (Belgian Congo, mostly Sephardim [2]), Kenya, Malawi (Nyasaland), Zambia (Northern Rhodesia) all of which had synagogues and even formal Jewish schools usually based in the capitals of these countries...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Jews


In an ethnic sense, an Ashkenazi Jew is one whose ancestry can be traced to the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe. For roughly a thousand years, the Ashkenazim were a reproductively isolated population in Europe, despite living in many countries, with little inflow or outflow from migration, conversion, or intermarriage with other groups, including other Jews. Human geneticists have identified genetic variations that have high frequencies among Ashkenazi Jews, but not in the general European population. This is true for patrilineal markers (Y-chromosome haplotypes) as well as for matrilineal markers (mitochondrial haplotypes).[11]

Since the middle of the 20th century, many Ashkenazi Jews have intermarried, both with members of other Jewish communities and with people of other nations and faiths, while some Jews have also adopted children from other ethnic groups or parts of the world and raised them as Jews. Conversion to Judaism, rare for nearly 2,000 years, has become more common. Jewish women and families who choose artificial insemination often choose a biological father who is not Jewish, to avoid common autosomal recessive genetic diseases.

A study by Michael Seldin, a geneticist at the University of California Davis School of Medicine, found Ashkenazi Jews to be a clear, relatively homogenous genetic subgroup. Strikingly, regardless of the place of origin, Ashkenazi Jews can be grouped in the same genetic cohort — that is, regardless of whether an Ashkenazi Jew's ancestors came from Poland, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania, or any other place with a historical Jewish population, they belong to the same ethnic group. The research demonstrates the endogamy of the Jewish population in Europe and lends further credence to the idea of Ashkenazi Jews as an ethnic group. Moreover, though intermarriage among Jews of Ashkenazi descent has become increasingly more common, many Ultra-Orthodox Jews, particularly members Hasidic or Hareidi sects, continue to marry exclusively fellow Ashkenazi Jews. This trend keeps Ashkenazi genes prevalent and also helps researchers further study the genes of Ashkenazi Jews with relative ease. It is noteworthy that these Ultra-Orthodox Jews often have extremely large families.

...

Historical records show evidence of Jewish communities north of the Alps and Pyrenees as early as the 8th and 9th century. By the end of the first millenum, Jewish populations were well-established in Western Europe, later followed the Norman Conquest into England in 1066, and settled in many cities of the Rhine area by the end of the 11th century. With the onset of the Crusades, and the expulsions from England (1290), France (1394), and parts of Germany (15th century), Jewish migration pushed eastward into Poland, Lithuania, and Russia. Over this period of several hundred years, some have suggested, Jewish economic activity was focused on trade, business management, and financial services, due to several presumed factors: Christian European prohibitions restricting certain activities by Jews, preventing certain financial activities (such as "usurious" loans)[25] between Christians, high rates of literacy, near universal male education, and ability of merchants to rely upon and trust family members living in different regions and countries.
By the 15th century, the Ashkenazi Jewish communities in Poland were the largest Jewish communities of the Diaspora.[26] This area, which eventually fell under the domination of Russia, Austria, and Prussia (Germany), would remain the main center of Ashkenazi Jewry until the Holocaust.
The answer to why there was so little assimilation of Jews in Eastern Europe for so long would seem to lie in part in the probability that the alien surroundings in Eastern Europe were not conducive, though contempt did not prevent some assimilation. Furthermore, Jews lived almost exclusively in shtetls, maintained a strong system of education for males, heeded rabbinic leadership, and scorned the life-style of their neighbors; and all of these tendencies increased with every outbreak of antisemitism


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi

They state that they scorned their neighbours life-style, and blame the getiles anti-semitism for the increased fervour with which jews hate gentiles, this just sounds back to front, I’ll put it down to Hubris...


Although the Jewish community peaked in the 1970s (at around 120,000[1]), about 70,000 mostly nominally Orthodox, remain in South Africa. Despite low intermarriage rates (around 7%[1]), approximately 1,800 Jews leave the country for economic reasons every year, mainly to Israel, Australia, Canada and the United States. The Jewish community in South Africa is currently the largest in Africa, and, although shrinking due to emigration, it remains one of the most nominally Orthodox communities in the world. The current Chief Rabbi, Dr, Warren Goldstein (2008), has been widely credited for initiating a "Bill of Responsibilities" which the government has incorporated in the national school curriculum. The Chief Rabbi has also pushed for community run projects to combat crime in the country. The community has become more observant and in Johannesburg, the largest centre of Jewish life, with 66 000 Jews, there is a high number and density of Kosher restaurants and religious centres. In politics, the Jewish community continues to have influence, particularly in leadership roles. Currently, the sole national Jewish newspaper, with a circulation of about 40,000, is the South African Jewish Report.[11] In 2008 a Jewish Radio Station, Chai FM, commenced broadcasting in Johannesberg, and also broadcasting on the internet to the large South African "diaspora" [12].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_South_Africa

velvet
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 06:54 PM
initiating a "Bill of Responsibilities" which the government has incorporated in the national school curriculum

What does this bill contain? Can you please post more on this?

Bittereinder
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 07:44 PM
What does this bill contain? Can you please post more on this?


South African schoolchildren will be taught a Bill of Responsibilities along with the Bill of Rights, Education Minister Naledi Pandor said in Pretoria on Monday.

Unveiling the Bill of Responsibilities, Pandor said: "It is to say how we exercise rights, with the understanding that rights come with responsibility."

The Bill, which has been largely drawn up by the National Religious Leaders' Forum, contains responsibilities mirroring those contained in the Bill of Rights. It includes the responsibilities of ensuring the right to equality, human dignity, life, family, parental care and education.

It also includes responsibilities to ensure the right to work, freedom and security, property, freedom of religion and a safe environment.

"I accept the call to responsibility that comes with the many rights and freedoms that I have been privileged to inherit from the sacrifice and suffering of those who came before me," the preamble reads.

"I appreciate that the rights enshrined in the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa are inseparable from my duties and responsibilities to others. Therefore I accept that with every right comes a set of responsibilities."

Although the Bill will not be a legal document, it will be taught to children as part of the life-skills curriculum, Pandor said.

She said posters containing the Bill of Responsibilities will be sent to all schools, universities and colleges to be displayed in classrooms.

"[It is] to really help all of us engage much more on how we deal with these freedoms, how we deal with these rights," Pandor said.

"This is an educational, inspirational document -- it's a document that's there for discussion and debate and inspires to educate," said Chief Rabbi Warren Goldstein, of the National Religious Leaders' Forum.

He said while the Bill of Rights has created a culture of human rights in South Africa, a culture of responsibility is also needed.

"It's not only about what I can take; it's what I can give. It's not only about me; it's about those around me because rights are what I'm entitled to and responsibilities are what other people are entitled to," he said. -- Sapa

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-02-18-schools-to-teach-new-bill-of-responsibilities


Bill of Responsibilities
I would also like to report on progress on the project of the Bill of Responsibilities, which is a document that articulates the responsibilities that flow from the Bill of Rights. At the last conference I reported on this project, which I had then initiated. Since then, at a press conference, the Minister of Education and I announced the official launching of this project in February 2008. There was excitement in the media as well as the broader public. It can be a transformative project for the country. The purpose of the Bill of Responsibilities is to generate and create a culture of responsibility in the country. Part of the project has been to distribute a copy of the poster of the Bill of Responsibilities to all the schools in the country. The Department of Education informs me that this has been done.

The main aim of the project is to teach the values of the Bill of Responsibilities as part of the school curriculum. A teaching manual has been developed and the Department of Education intends to begin a process of training teachers nationally. I have approached ORT to assist with this project. They have put together a plan for teacher training and school management training in the values and principles of the Bill of Responsibilities for seventy schools across Ivory Park, Soweto and Alexandra. This plan will, please G-d, be implemented very soon.


http://www.chiefrabbi.co.za/2009/08/uos-conference-august-2009-chief-rabbis-report/

From the same link:


Israel and Anti-Semitism
During the Gaza War the situation here in South Africa became very heated. It was necessary for me to write articles and be interviewed on radio in order to defend the reputation of State of Israel, which is important to do for the following reasons: to fulfill the mitzvah of Kiddush Hashem; to fight the injustice of the unfair criticism of Israel and to give our community strength. A prayer meeting was held and was very well attended. Prayer is a key Torah response to the situation. Our prayers through G-d’s will can change the world.



The Jewish Board of Deputies has proceeded the Bill of Responsibilities for school. The Department of Education will launch the Bill.

http://www.anc.org.za/caucus/index.php?include=docs/sp/2010/sp0730.html

EQ Fighter
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 08:30 PM
How Jewry works demonstrated at the example of Gill Marcus.

This topic may fit into more then one section, as it touches upon politics, human behavior, cultural anthropology and history.

From time to time issues regarding the Jews do come up. Often the question arises, whether they one should oppose them, embrace them or simply be neutral. Also whether "being Jewish" is about religion, ethnicity or race, whether Jews act harmful or whether "Antisemitism" is based on irrational myth.

So why not read what they Jews themselves got to say about one of their own. Let me do that using Gill Marcus as an example and then deal with what mentioned in the article to explain how Jewry works:

Gill Marcus and her family were actively involved in the socalled "struggle against Apartheid" meaning that they were active and even prominent members of the ANC and the South African Communist Party.


Let me point out a few issues here:
- The article clearly states that you do not need to be religious (i.e. practice Judaism) to be a Jew or have a Jewish identity.
- Communism is just fine it seems and it's not in conflict with civility or "democratic" society. Note that this is coming from a main-stream Jewish publication and isn't an isolated view.
- Ms. Marcus was a member of the Communist Party and so were here parents. In the context of the article this is even implied as an expression of Jewish identity.
- She worked in information and finance related areas on prominent positions.
- Note the profound influence of "the Holocaust".

Where ever you find Communism, you will find Jews, propagating it.

I also find it very hilarious that they are making the statement that she promoted "Democracy". I have as yet to see any of your Jewish Leftist promote anything but one sided oligarchy with themselves at the top. I would say they are the socialist worm that eats away at any democracy to the point of destruction.

One sided hypocrisy, and self serving greed, to the core.

Wynterwade
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Where ever you find Communism, you will find Jews, propagating it.

China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba? Those are the only communist countries today- They have no Jews (except an extremely small number in Cuba).

The problem isn't Jews- It is ultra liberal ideologies.

If the Jews suddenly disappeared then everything would still be the same way it is today- the only difference would be that European ultra liberal ideologists would step into their place.

This is a mental struggle.

EQ Fighter
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 09:11 PM
"This is an educational, inspirational document -- it's a document that's there for discussion and debate and inspires to educate," said Chief Rabbi Warren Goldstein, of the National Religious Leaders' Forum.

He said while the Bill of Rights has created a culture of human rights in South Africa, a culture of responsibility is also needed.


And there you have it.

That pretty much sums up, both the "Entitlement" mentality of both Judaism, and its political arm Marxism.

And that "Responsibility" as you have it will always rest on the western population as long as there is an ignorant white worker population to support it.

You can always count on a Jew/Liberal to be generous with the labor and lives of his goyim slaves.


China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba? Those are the only communist countries today- They have no Jews (except an extremely small number in Cuba).

The problem isn't Jews- It is ultra liberal ideologies.

If the Jews suddenly disappeared then everything would still be the same way it is today- the only difference would be that European ultra liberal ideologists would step into their place.

This is a mental struggle not a racial struggle.

I beg to differ.

China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba all had "Russian Advisers" which established them as communist nations.

Hell the North Koreans even had white Russian, pilots flying the Migs against US Saber jets during the Korean War.

I guarantee you plenty of US Cold Warriors would disagree with your assumption that no Jews were involved in those countries.

Jews have almost always been the ring leaders, for Marxist movements, and that includes Marx himself.

I will grant you though that they do not form the body of idiots that propagate it, beyond its point of conception.



The problem isn't Jews- It is ultra liberal ideologies.

If the Jews suddenly disappeared then everything would still be the same way it is today- the only difference would be that European ultra liberal ideologists would step into their place.

This is a mental struggle.

Ok!
Tell you what.

I am certainly not against sweeping out ALL the ultra liberals, no matter what race they are.

But my bet is that if you do that, a very high percentage of them, will in fact be Jewish Marxist.

Wynterwade
Sunday, October 17th, 2010, 09:43 PM
I am certainly not against sweeping out ALL the ultra liberals, no matter what race they are.

But my bet is that if you do that, a very high percentage of them, will in fact be Jewish Marxist.

Exactly, since you see the point I am making let me take this logic one more step.

When you phrase things in terms like "Jew", "Jewry" you are only alienating your ideas from the general public; the average person will not listen to you because not all Jews are the problem.

Camouflage it instead with the term "ultra liberal ideologists" (a much better suited term because it captures ALL the viewpoints that oppose us in one simple term). If you do this then you will appeal to the general public and the average person will listen to you.

EQ Fighter
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 12:05 AM
Exactly, since you see the point I am making let me take this logic one more step.

When you phrase things in terms like "Jew", "Jewry" you are only alienating your ideas from the general public; the average person will not listen to you because not all Jews are the problem.

Camouflage it instead with the term "ultra liberal ideologists" (a much better suited term because it captures ALL the viewpoints that oppose us in one simple term). If you do this then you will appeal to the general public and the average person will listen to you.

I would say the average person is controlled by the media lock stock and barrel.
The average person is not going to bother to think rationally about what is right wrong, or based on facts. They will simply respond emotionally to what ever garbage the media dishes out to them.

Therefor, If Nazis were the ones controlling the media, the average person would be a Nazi, but since the media is controlled by Liberals, then the average person is a liberal.

As long as the current people are controlling the media, then the average person will be on their side, and no amount of appeal to be a "Moderate" will make a difference.

The Issues with Jews is they know this and have known it since they were in the Persian Empire, and they have a long history to build on. Germanic populations are recent to this sort of manipulation and therefore do not recognize it when they see it.

velvet
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 12:31 AM
Although this certainly is true for the vast majority out there, there are also trends that the media increasingly does not represent people's opinion anymore. People start to see through the propaganda lies, they feel that the presented "public opinion" is some negative agenda, or at least a wishful thinking that did not work out in reality.

Though there is increasingly more room for other ideas, but indeed we should be careful with formulations and terms. Many of them release a conditioned Pavlovish reflex for the time being, and it may take a while to uncondition people from this literal buzz-words.

EQ Fighter
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 12:58 AM
Although this certainly is true for the vast majority out there, there are also trends that the media increasingly does not represent people's opinion anymore. People start to see through the propaganda lies, they feel that the presented "public opinion" is some negative agenda, or at least a wishful thinking that did not work out in reality.

I personally don't think the media ever represented the peoples position, It was always a control mechanism.



Though there is increasingly more room for other ideas, but indeed we should be careful with formulations and terms. Many of them release a conditioned Pavlovish reflex for the time being, and it may take a while to uncondition people from this literal buzz-words.

I would say that is only because of something called the internet.

Instead of having Broadcast Media like you had in the 1960's -1980's. You now have a situation where the Media has to deal with criticism directly from the people.

And to their astonishment, that silent majority does not necessarily agree with them.

Right now, the globalist really do not know how to deal with free speech over the web. It is confounding to them for the time being, and they are perplexed as to how to get back to their 1960's complete control of "ideas".

But mark my words, even as we speak, the CIA, has employed many internet trolls that are well paid with US Tax dollars to figure it out.

Dropkick
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 01:28 AM
I would say the average person is controlled by the media lock stock and barrel.
The average person is not going to bother to think rationally about what is right wrong, or based on facts. They will simply respond emotionally to what ever garbage the media dishes out to them.

Therefor, If Nazis were the ones controlling the media, the average person would be a Nazi, but since the media is controlled by Liberals, then the average person is a liberal.

As long as the current people are controlling the media, then the average person will be on their side, and no amount of appeal to be a "Moderate" will make a difference.

The Issues with Jews is they know this and have known it since they were in the Persian Empire, and they have a long history to build on. Germanic populations are recent to this sort of manipulation and therefore do not recognize it when they see it.

very true. I's say people on this site don't fully understand how the media works.

velvet
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 01:32 AM
I can think of a dozen other organisations that do the same. The ADL, the CFR, there was some time ago an article about Israelis paid for editing wiki articles (I believe Himmler's page to be first victim of this "less biased against Jews" agenda), all the Central Councils of Jews, Human Rights organisation and what have you. I'm sure they have their agents and "social scientists" working day and night, to infiltrate, to manipulate, to be internet zionist trolls and so on.


For the media stuff, indeed the medias have always been a propaganda instrument, but there's also people who really believed in this utopia, specially the '68 generation, and even more the kids they raised in that utopia's ideology.

Yet, these kids of back then are the ones who increasingly not agree, and this actually is something which gives hope and makes me think that all this propaganda and brainwashing could not fully eradicate common sense from the people. And every wave of tougher "tolerance demands" generates more resistance to this brainwash. There is something moving ;)

Wynterwade
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 02:59 AM
I would say the average person is controlled by the media lock stock and barrel. The average person is not going to bother to think rationally about what is right wrong, or based on facts. They will simply respond emotionally to what ever garbage the media dishes out to them.
I think you'd be surprised how intelligent the average person is or at least the top 25% (college educated) of society. People aren't all mindless sheep like Marxists thought. The media is increasingly opening up and liberal control (at least here in America) is on the decline as sites like Drudge Report and Fox News dominating ratings and internet traffic for the masses.


As long as the current people are controlling the media, then the average person will be on their side, and no amount of appeal to be a "Moderate" will make a difference.
The media doesn't have as much control as you would expect. Dramatic political changes have more to do with economics; unemployment, immigration, welfare, economic opportunity (what people experience on a daily basis). Many dramatic changes, even NS, came about during a time of overwhelmingly liberal ownership of the media- the changing factor was the economic reasons which influence public sentiments. (This will sound politically incorrect but this applies mainly to European/east-asian peoples. Africans overwhelmingly vote liberal no matter the circumstances)

I think the most tragic effect of the media is neglecting to teach pride in European culture and European history. We no longer judge (culture is judgment) other cultures and beliefs like we once did. Many in society view our history in shame when in fact- it is the only shinning light out of all the world cultures. Many people believe that races are imaginary and don't value their people or culture. This troubles me more than anything else.

Bittereinder
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 06:07 AM
I think you'd be surprised how intelligent the average person is or at least the top 25% (college educated) of society. People aren't all mindless sheep like Marxists thought.

1 out of 4 is hardly the average... it is rather the exception in this case... ;)


I think the most tragic effect of the media is neglecting to teach pride in European culture and European history. We no longer judge (culture is judgment) other cultures and beliefs like we once did. Many in society view our history in shame when in fact- it is the only shinning light out of all the world cultures. Many people believe that races are imaginary and don't value their people or culture. This troubles me more than anything else.

This is were our jewish counterparts come in, they own the tools and influence in media, government, legislation, judiciary, education etc. etc. to create these false perception amongst even your 25% of people...

It is rather the opposite they don’t neglect our past, they shun it and spit on it at every possible opportunity, or if the opportunity does not exist fuck that say it anyway...

Like this screen shot from the movie splice with the jew "brody" playing the lead role. The movie has no German or Nazi in the film however they still manage to fit this in there:


http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3329/splice.jpg

Notice the Germanic looking female in the background (I think she has blue eyes)...

Horagalles
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 08:17 AM
I beg to differ.

China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba all had "Russian Advisers" which established them as communist nations.

Hell the North Koreans even had white Russian, pilots flying the Migs against US Saber jets during the Korean War.

I guarantee you plenty of US Cold Warriors would disagree with your assumption that no Jews were involved in those countries.
I got a clear suspicion what actual ethnicity of the advisers was;).
Anyway, the Communist take-overs in those countries have been hardly the result of spontaneous peasant revolts.



Jews have almost always been the ring leaders, for Marxist movements, and that includes Marx himself.

I will grant you though that they do not form the body of idiots that propagate it, beyond its point of conception.
Please People, keep the focus on the case of South Africa and Gill Marcus. I'd be able to cite one prominent White Marxist and this was Braam Fischer. But he was an isolated figure in his community. As for the Jews, and they formed the bulk of non-Black Communists, they were for the biggest part respected members within the Jewish community. And that's something the Gill Marcus article does indicated very well. At one stage the entire South African Jewish Board of Deputies consisted of Communists, but I would have to look this up to get you proof for this.

Joe McCarthy
Monday, October 18th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by Horagalles
Please People, keep the focus on the case of South Africa and Gill Marcus.Fair enough.

While it is fair game to condemn Jewish leftists for undermining apartheid there is another side to the shekel. As you may be aware, after the Yom Kippur War Israel became arguably South Africa's closest ally and may have even offered to sell Pretoria nuclear weapons. It wasn't until 1987 that Israel finally imposed the trade embargo, but only AFTER the European Community and US had done so (the EC did it first, and the US only did it after a liberal Congress overcame a Reagan veto. The US is to be commended for a number of UN Security Council vetoes protecting South Africa). Indeed, that they did so was mostly a result of the actions of key members of Congress who suggested failure to apply the embargo might result in suspension of US foreign aid. It's to be observed that the mullahs in Iran were supporters of the ANC.

Israel had been a critic of South Africa in the 60's but only after Sharpsville.

And since it is close in proximity I suppose it's worth noting that Rhodesia was founded with heavy Jewish financial backing, particularly due to Cecil Rhodes' close relationship to the Rothschilds.

Just one of several pieces I could post here.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19343 (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glob alresearch.ca%2Findex.php%3Fcontext%3Dva %26aid%3D19343)



Israel and South Africa's Apartheid Regime: a Marriage of Convenience and Military Might
Secret documents revealing offer to sell nuclear warheads to South Africa cast fresh light on alliance


by Chris McGreal

It's the relationship that never was. Kept to the shadows, it was shielded behind secret agreements and disinformation that dressed up military cooperation as mining deals.



But when the spotlight occasionally flickered over one of the most intimate and enduring alliances of the postwar years, Israel was quick to underplay its deep military ties with apartheid South Africa as nothing more than a necessity of survival without a flicker of ideological affinity.



But as is shown by Sasha Polakow-Suransky's book, The Unspoken Alliance, that relationship went beyond mere convenience.



For years after its birth, Israel was publicly critical of apartheid and sought to build alliances with the newly independent African states through the 1960s.



But after the 1973 Yom Kippur war, African governments increasingly came to look on the Jewish state as another colonialist power. The government in Jerusalem cast around for new allies and found one in Pretoria. For a start, South Africa was already providing the yellowcake essential for building a nuclear weapon.



By 1976, the relationship had changed so profoundly that South Africa's prime minister, John Vorster, could not only make a visit to Jerusalem but accompany Israel's two most important leaders, Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres, to the city's Holocaust memorial to mourn the six million Jews murdered by the Nazis.



Neither Israeli appears to have been disturbed by the fact that Vorster had been an open supporter of Hitler, a member of South Africa's fascist and violently antisemitic Ossewabrandwag and that he was interned during the war as a Nazi sympathiser.



Rabin hailed Vorster as a force for freedom and at a banquet toasted "the ideals shared by Israel and South Africa: the hopes for justice and peaceful coexistence".



A few months later, the South African government's yearbook described the two countries having one thing in common above all else: "They are both situated in a predominantly hostile world inhabited by dark peoples."



A year earlier, Israel had offered to sell South Africa nuclear warheads.



"South Africa's leaders yearned for a nuclear deterrent – which they believed would force the west to intervene on their behalf if Pretoria were ever seriously threatened – and the Israeli proposition put that goal within reach," Polakow-Suransky says in the book.



The deal did not go through but there was plenty of other cooperation in the development of military technology.



Alon Liel, a former Israeli ambassador to Pretoria who headed his foreign ministry's South Africa desk in the 80s, once told the Guardian that gold-rich South Africa funded the joint military projects and Israel provided much of the technical knowledge.



"After 1976, there was a love affair between the security establishments of the two countries and their armies," he said. "We were involved in Angola as consultants to the [South African] army. You had Israeli officers there cooperating with the army. The link was very intimate."



By the late 1970s, South Africa was Israel's single largest customer for weapons.



Polakow-Suransky establishes that the relationship was so intimate that in the mid-1970s, South Africa lifted the safeguards supposed to govern how the yellowcake was used to prevent nuclear proliferation.



In return, Israel sent South Africa 30 grams of tritium, which gives thermonuclear weapons the boost to their explosive power. The delivery was enough to build several atomic bombs, which South Africa did in the coming years.



Peres was central to the relationship. He was defence minister at the time of Vorster's visit to Jerusalem and twice served as prime minister during the 1980s as the alliance with the apartheid government solidified.



Five years ago, I asked him about the morality of ties with the white regime.



"Every decision is not between two perfect situations. Every choice is between two imperfect alternatives. At that time the movement of black South Africa was with (PLO leader Yasser) Arafat against us. Actually, we didn't have much of a choice. But we never stopped denouncing apartheid. We never agreed with it," he said



And a man like Vorster?



"I wouldn't put him on the list of the greatest leaders of our time," said Peres.



Yet attempts by the man who is now Israel's president to portray his country as forced in to a reluctant alliance with an ideological foe are undermined by his enthusiastic expressions of common ideals.



In 1974, Peres wrote to the South African information minister, Eschel Rhoodie, speaking of the "unshakeable foundations of our common hatred of injustice and our refusal to submit to it".



Peres was not alone. Rafael Eitan, the former Israeli military chief of staff, was among those who spoke of his sympathy for the white regime's position. So did Ariel Sharon, the future prime minister.



In the late 80s, as international pressure on the apartheid government grew, Israel's political leadership decided it was time to retreat. But Liel said that the security establishment balked.



"When we came to the crossroads in 86-87, in which the foreign ministry said we have to switch from white to black, the security establishment said, 'You're crazy, it's suicidal'. They were saying we wouldn't have military and aviation industries unless we had had South Africa as our main client from the mid-1970s; they saved Israel. By the way, it's probably true," he said.
http://palestinethinktank.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/latuff-apartheid.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_a-Su2SAnGYU/SeBAQNw1P9I/AAAAAAAAJk0/fawJbgUIUQY/s400/capital+of+south+africa.jpg

http://bristol.indymedia.org/attachments/apr2009/boycott_combined_image.jpg

http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/jpg/1-301.jpg

Bittereinder
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 05:21 AM
Well Joe, your fluffy little jews vehemently deny such a relationship:


Although the Guardian provides documentary “proof” of attempted nuclear collaboration, which shows the signatures of then South African defense minister alongside his Israeli counterpart, the Israeli statement declares: "There exists no Israeli document or Israeli signature on a document that such negotiations took place."

Here is a statistic on SA's trading partners through isolation:


Israel is widely accused of having been out of step with international trends by continuing to trade with South Africa in the eighties. Yet in 1986, while apartheid was suffering worldwide opprobrium, South Africa’s main trading partners were, U.S.A. - $3.4 billion, Japan - $2.9 billion, Germany- $2.8 billion, U.K. - $2.6 billion. In defending Britain’s position at the time, Sir Alec Douglas Home referred to Britain's heavy investment in South Africa and the strategic importance of naval facilities at Simonstown.

By comparison, Israel’s puny $200 million total trade with South Africa amounted to less than 1% of South Africa's total trade.

...

The following is a sampling of the detailed list of arms supplies to South Africa provided by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI):

· UK 14 Westland Wasp helicopters supplied in 1973 and 1974
· France 38 Mirage fighter aircraft supplied in 1974 and 1975
· Jordan 717 Tigercat missiles suppplied in 1974
· Italy 80 military aircraft supplied in 1974
· UK 41 Centurion tanks supplied in 1974
· France 48 AS-12 air to surface missiles supplied in 1975
· France 2 submarines supplied in 1975
· France 2040 air to surface missiles supplied between 1976-1983
· Italy 96 Impala counter insurgency equipment between 1976-1983
· Spain 60 Centurion tanks supplied in 1979.


http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=130125

Furthermore it is no secret (atleast not to Afrikaners on this forum) that the "Apartheid regime" was infiltrated and subverted via the Broederbond whom parted form a bond with their brothers for a bond with international capital...

Horagalles
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 10:05 AM
Fair enough.

While it is fair game to condemn Jewish leftists for undermining apartheid there is another side to the shekel. As you may be aware, after the Yom Kippur War Israel became arguably South Africa's closest ally and may have even offered to sell Pretoria nuclear weapons. It wasn't until 1987 that Israel finally imposed the trade embargo, but only AFTER the European Community and US had done so (the EC did it first, and the US only did it after a liberal Congress overcame a Reagan veto. The US is to be commended for a number of UN Security Council vetoes protecting South Africa). ...
Arguably not an ally, but a bed-mate by which South Africa was done over.
Except that the countries had relatively normal trade relations, South Africa was one of two countries in Africa that still had normal diplomatic relations with Israel. And as for being done over, this I directly relate to the alleged nuclear cooperation. In fact, how I see it, Israel tried to climb into bed with South Africa for obtaining weapons-grade uranium/nuclear materials by offering the South Africans outdated nuclear information.

For the rest I conclude with Grimner.

Joe McCarthy
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Grimner
Israel is widely accused of having been out of step with international trends by continuing to trade with South Africa in the eighties. Yet in 1986, while apartheid was suffering worldwide opprobrium, South Africa’s main trading partners were, U.S.A. - $3.4 billion, Japan - $2.9 billion, Germany- $2.8 billion, U.K. - $2.6 billion

It's hardly surprising that Israel would trail much larger states in trading receipts. The UK and US tended to stand by South Africa in part due to trade links and foreign investment in the country.



· France 38 Mirage fighter aircraft supplied in 1974 and 1975
· France 48 AS-12 air to surface missiles supplied in 1975
· France 2 submarines supplied in 1975
· France 2040 air to surface missiles supplied between 1976-1983


Yes, the French are often mentioned as a notable arms supplier.


Furthermore it is no secret (atleast not to Afrikaners on this forum) that the "Apartheid regime" was infiltrated and subverted via the Broederbond whom parted form a bond with their brothers for a bond with international capital...

You can probably thank capital for apartheid lasting as long as it did. Had there not been so much foreign investment from the UK and US, South Africa would have sunk much sooner.


Well Joe, your fluffy little jews vehemently deny such a relationship:


Well, how shocking! I'd fully expect Israel to come right out and admit they offered to sell South Africa nukes! LOL.

Bittereinder
Wednesday, October 20th, 2010, 08:06 PM
It's hardly surprising that Israel would trail much larger states in trading receipts. The UK and US tended to stand by South Africa in part due to trade links and foreign investment in the country.

Stand by South Africa? No the US and UK where after the same thing the jews where, as you seem to forget that your country is run by jews and have been for a very long time. Thus your purpose and theirs is in lock step.


Yes, the French are often mentioned as a notable arms supplier.

Yes the French, bla bla bla, they sell them, you build it yourselves, we buy them same shit.


You can probably thank capital for Apartheid lasting as long as it did. Had there not been so much foreign investment from the UK and US, South Africa would have sunk much sooner.

O' is this right, what your jew masters put in they will always take out, with interest, as is the case today in my insignificant shithole African country.


there’s so much of info on the internet but there’s lots if disinformation as well, these people control up to 96% of the worlds media but they’re having a hard time controlling the flow of info on the internet so they have their people to confuse you with lies mixed in with the truth to confuse you & create doubt.

The above quote (pertaining to you if you missed it) was written by an Indian whom was raised under Apartheid and yet he can say the following:


Soon a time will come when even the internet will be totally under their control- so make the most of it while you can.
Inform as many people as you can because if we don’t know whats really going on & who is really pulling the strings in the first place, we are much more easier to manipulate and deceive .
im an indian & i used to hate the NP- but i always remember that many times on the news , when there was any bombing, murder, violence etc, the reporter would say that the police suspect a third force??


http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=1035152#post1035152

Thus, this Indian is far less hostile to my and Skadi’s Germanic heritage and preservation.


[Moderator's note: Please report problematic posts by using the report button, not using public threads for it, thanks.]