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Fourie
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 11:46 PM
What would you think if Denmark Norway and Sweden were to be part of the GroßDeutschhes Vaterland, as German states? They are similar to German culturally, especially North Germany, they are similar to Germany genetically as well.
I think it would be wonderful if these beautiful peoples came together to truely be one.

As for the languages, the chances of Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian surviving, are slim. I think the best way to protect them would be as German states, where their languages are protected, even while German remains the sole official language. if you protect it over a larger population, it will have a better chance of surviving.

Any thoughts?

nordfrisk
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 11:53 PM
no. that is just pure imperialism. the german people as a whole have not many similarities to the scandinavians of northern europe. this is especially true to the alpine people of southern germany who have almost no cultural ties to even the rest of germany especially here in the north. i don't even think norway, sweden, and denmark would do good together, adding germany is just sour. maybe northern germany/netherlands together would be more related to the scandinavian people but as for the parts of germany lower than hamburg... germans become silly.

Fourie
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 11:59 PM
Well, as a whole, maybe not, but Northern Germany, perhaps even Germany Up from and including Berlin, do.
There is actually, very little difference between a North German and a Swede, Dane, Norwegian genetically, or culturally.

The North Germans have many culutural ties with the Scandinavians, they are genetically identical and extremely similar culturally. I would say anything north from and Including Berlin. Hell, there are even some parts of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern where people speak Swedish.

Þoreiðar
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 02:06 AM
I would say no. I feel no such close relationship with Germany.


The North Germans have many culutural ties with the Scandinavians, they are genetically identical and extremely similar culturally.That's a gross exaggeration. Even inside Scandinavia there are big genetic differences in certain parts. A Dane and North-Norwegian, for example. Or a West-Norwegian and a native Stockholmer...

Ocko
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 02:35 AM
The old protestant countries may share something together.

The differences in Germany are pretty big too. they didn't have the unifying kingdoms like other countries but stayed a patchwork of fiefdoms for a long time.

I travelled skandinavia and I like the jolly danes, the brooding swedes and the sober non-talking norwegians but it doesn't mean one has to move together. Or do you just move together with all people you like?

Loyalist
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 02:47 AM
It would make more sense for Germany to amalgamate with the other German-speaking lands, such as Austria, the Germanic regions of Switzerland, etc. Except for Northern Germany, Germans and Scandinavians are not much more than distant cousins in a meta-ethnic sense. In fact, there are greater similarities between other West Germanic groups, such as the Dutch and English, and the Germans than with the North Germanic (Scandinavian) peoples. Nonetheless, I think the pre-1945 borders would be ideal.

nordfrisk
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 03:27 AM
Well, as a whole, maybe not, but Northern Germany, perhaps even Germany Up from and including Berlin, do.
There is actually, very little difference between a North German and a Swede, Dane, Norwegian genetically, or culturally.i disagree. where i live i have much of the lowlander/north german/frisian/dutch/scandinavian culture blend that makes most of many parts of northern germany. when i go along the coast such as hamborg, kiel, flensburg, wilhelmhaven, etc. it is more similar to that of the scandinavian nations mostly denmark. i would say these people have more in common with the danes and dutch next door than the bavarians and austrians in the south. but any below that they are back to being germans with no connection. berlin is in no way tied to anything nordic or scandinavian. it is a very small portion of germany i am referring to.


The North Germans have many culutural ties with the Scandinavians, they are genetically identical and extremely similar culturally. I would say anything north from and Including Berlin. Hell, there are even some parts of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern where people speak Swedish.yeah true in some ways. genetically the same, in the parts i refer to along the coast of northern germany and netherlands along with some cultural similarities. Berlin is very much of mainstream german culture,, which is not what we are referring to. north german/lowlander culture is a very distinct minority in germany.

Patrioten
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 11:38 PM
As an outsider looking at our four respective countries, having only basic facts to base your understanding on I can see that such a set-up would have a certain appeal in the "flashback to the 1930s"-sense. But the fact is that our countries, people and cultures represent separate clusters (and within each cluster there exists even more diversity) that should not be forced together where they have historically grown apart. A Dane is not a Swede, a German is not a Norwegian.

I have but the deepest respect for Germany and its history up until her more modern history, and there exists deep historical ties between Germany and Sweden that should not be forgotten. But even if history had turned out differently than it did I cannot support, even in theory, the submission of Sweden as a German province. We are separate countries and separate people, as any Swede or German can tell you.

I'd recommend you to try to become more knowledgable about your diverse ancestry and hopefully come to realize the depth that each nationality encompasses. There is more to them than simply being Germanic.

Mrs vonTrep
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 01:45 PM
I would say no. I feel no such close relationship with Germany.

I agree with you.

Though, I could very well see a Nordic Republic - Denmark, Sweden and Norway. But not Germany, no.

Fyrgenholt
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 01:59 PM
Well, I'm not Swedish, Norwegian, Danish or German (what about Iceland?) but I do think this would be a bad idea. I also think the Germans are very different to the Scandinavian people at large, regardless of distantly shared heritage. I would even go as far as to say the Scandinavian people are more similiar to the Scots and the Irish than they are the Germans, despite Celtic vs. Germanic differentiation.

I would keep things how they are, perhaps with past German borders.

wittwer
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 02:02 PM
I've been thinking about Germany, Denmark Norway and Sweden.
These countries, if I am right, share common heritage, Germany, generally.
I may be horribly inaccurate but whatever.
What would you think if Denmark Norway and Sweden were to be part of the GroßDeutschhes Vaterland, as German states?
They are similar to German culturally, especially North Germany, they are similar to Germany genetically as well.
I think it would be wonderful if these beautiful peoples came together to truely be one.
As for the languages, the chances of Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian surviving, are slim. I think the best way to protect them would be as German states, where their languages are protected, even while German remains the sole official language. if you protect it over a larger population, it will have a better chance of surviving.
Any thoughts?

To attempt something like this would be equivalent to the merging of Canada and the U.S. into one country under U.S. direction. As a Canadian how do you feel about that? Probably the same as Germans, Swedes, Danish and Norwegians feel about the creation of new state out of their countries.

Never going to happen. ;)

SaxonPagan
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 02:05 PM
You could probably make out a vague case for this Germany/Sweden/ Denmark/Norway idea based on geography alone, but that's about it.

It reminds me a bit of Sarko's "Club Med" initiative in some ways ;)

Juthunge
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 03:34 PM
I don't think that's a good idea, out of the same reasons others already pointed out.

I'd prefer some kind of federation of the European Germanic countries (Germany, Austria, England, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, BeNeLux), united in foreign affairs, but with inner sovereignty retaining their distinct cultural, linguistic and racial nature.
Maybe add Ireland and Scotland to that list, although they're not distinctly Germanic.

Fyrgenholt
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 03:55 PM
Maybe add Ireland and Scotland to that list, although they're not distinctly Germanic.

I think it would be fair to include Ireland, Scotland and Wales, all of which despite being Celtic rather than Germanic have a close interconnected and shared history, along side a multitude of cultural similarities, with ourselves.

That being said, include those countries and you would have to include Brittany, include Brittany and you would have to include Normandy, of course, Alsace would have to be included too, and sooner or later you'd have all of France, after all, they are named after the Franks.

I don't know, inclusiveness brings forth the lowest common denominator, I think.

Anyway, I think a cultural federation between the Germanic nations would be of benefit, providing it didn't result in countries ruling over countries and so on. I think it'd do the English, in particular, well to reassociate with our friends across The North Sea and on the continent, a historic closeness that we've for too long denied due to our status as islanders.

Schattenjäger
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 10:39 PM
Perhaps Scandinavians should form "Viking Union" in the future, provided they ever regain sovereignty.

Elessar
Wednesday, October 6th, 2010, 11:02 PM
Try putting your proposition through to the leaders of said countries and see how it goes over.

Gustavus Magnus
Thursday, October 7th, 2010, 01:24 AM
I'd love it, provided it was under an equally competent and respectful German administration as during the 30's.

SaxonPagan
Thursday, October 7th, 2010, 01:40 AM
I can see that, for some people, part of the charm of this idea would be to provide an escape from the dictatorial EU.

Bedford Brown
Thursday, October 7th, 2010, 03:50 AM
The UN was created for uniting white Europe, and it will happen..
If you study you will find nature created three races in the world, and no more...Mongleloid, Caucasoid and Ne'groid...All the white tribes that made up Europe are from the same seed line, only seperated for thousands of years..No matter what, with the actions throughout the world and the muslims, Jews, etc wanting to destroy all the white europeans, we only have one choise...We hang together, or we will hang seperate...

Huginn ok Muninn
Thursday, October 7th, 2010, 04:15 AM
A family can be close without sharing the same bedroom.

GroeneWolf
Thursday, October 7th, 2010, 05:11 AM
The UN was created for uniting white Europe, and it will happen..

I presume you mean the EU, but that was never the purpose of the EU. The most important inspirator of the EU was Richard Nikolaus von Coudenhove-Kalergi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nikolaus_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi) whose vision of the future included the requirement to mix all races.

Elessar
Thursday, October 7th, 2010, 06:36 AM
...we only have one choise...We hang together, or we will hang seperate...

The same tactic Jews employ against us Goyim.

Sedtrogen
Tuesday, October 26th, 2010, 06:26 AM
I wouldn't mind a Germanic union of some sort (though preferably including more countries than just the four the thread starter mentioned), but then the parts of the union should have very high autonomy. I may be similar to other Germanic people, but we are not the same thing. Hel, I don't even acknowledge "Swede" as a good designation for my ethnicity - I'm a Sweon, different from the other tribes (Geats, Gotlanders, Scanians, etc) in Sweden.

Haduloha
Wednesday, January 12th, 2011, 09:26 PM
The only thing what an average german shares with an swede is Ikea. The typical german has no german culture nor any kind of culture at all. That is what they share with mostly all western countries and what makes a "nordic nation" not appropriate at the moment.

Speaking for myself i appreciate cultural and economical cooperation with scandinavia:
I look forward to see some great music here
http://www.folkbaltica.de/termine.html
That is the kind of cooperation i prefer.

Best regards

thirsty
Thursday, January 13th, 2011, 04:25 AM
Recent article by the futurist Joel Kotkin:

http://www.joelkotkin.com/content/00318-new-world-order


For centuries we have used maps to delineate borders that have been defined by politics. But it may be time to chuck many of our notions about how humanity organizes itself. Across the world a resurgence of tribal ties is creating more complex global alliances. Where once diplomacy defined borders, now history, race, ethnicity, religion, and culture are dividing humanity into dynamic new groupings.


1. New Hansa
Denmark, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden

In the 13th century, an alliance of Northern European towns called the Hanseatic League created what historian Fernand Braudel called a “common civilization created by trading.” Today’s expanded list of Hansa states share Germanic cultural roots...

Norrøn
Thursday, January 13th, 2011, 10:44 AM
No thank you. Didnt work out well in the old Kalmar days, and wont work now either. Just a "small" merging like SAS, which should have been relativly easy and practical, turned out to be a byrocratic nightmare. Try to implant this on the "Kalmar" scenario and you will know what will happen.

Beside this, lets say that we miraculously managed to get by with all the obstacles around finance, law, taxmoney, capital etc. You still would have the problem with all the other jealous institutions like the EU, the US, the EU partnership, Schengen, UN and so forth. They would all become scared by our "different opinions" and actual free speach, which actually would have a major voice on the world stage. This wont be allowed to happen, and we would be sanctioned econimically. Say what you will, but people dont tend to want less.

3rd point is that we dont have the same connection as earlier in history. We have party cooperation along party lines, we are exposed to much of the same from culture and religion, but I think we have lost the solidarity connection we had in the post ww2 era. If our solidarity was the same as it used to be, im sure we would have bailed the icelanders out earlier. Addition to this, im sure we would attract all kinds of oppurtunists we dont have today. The unwanted power hungry kind

To grow large isnt always the best defence.

thirsty
Friday, January 14th, 2011, 01:20 AM
No thank you. Didnt work out well in the old Kalmar days, and wont work now either. Just a "small" merging like SAS, which should have been relativly easy and practical, turned out to be a byrocratic nightmare. Try to implant this on the "Kalmar" scenario and you will know what will happen.

Beside this, lets say that we miraculously managed to get by with all the obstacles around finance, law, taxmoney, capital etc. You still would have the problem with all the other jealous institutions like the EU, the US, the EU partnership, Schengen, UN and so forth. They would all become scared by our "different opinions" and actual free speach, which actually would have a major voice on the world stage. This wont be allowed to happen, and we would be sanctioned econimically. Say what you will, but people dont tend to want less.

3rd point is that we dont have the same connection as earlier in history. We have party cooperation along party lines, we are exposed to much of the same from culture and religion, but I think we have lost the solidarity connection we had in the post ww2 era. If our solidarity was the same as it used to be, im sure we would have bailed the icelanders out earlier. Addition to this, im sure we would attract all kinds of oppurtunists we dont have today. The unwanted power hungry kind

To grow large isnt always the best defence.

Easy to see happen. EU fractures in two, club Med goes it's way with a latin Euro, and the northern states with a teutonic Euro governed out of Frankfurt. The twin pillars of debt collapse and resource constraints (peak oil) see a complete lack of other people's money available for the progressives to throw around, nevermind the fact that economic pressures will force social/racial cohesion on all economies. The feedback loop is almost instantaneous, economies that move to a situation of homogenity survive, those that don't-Balkanize into civil war type conflicts or at the very least widespread anarchy and chaos.

Twenty-three years ago if somebody said the Berlin Wall would be irrelevant the year after, we'd all be like WTF???

Thusnelda
Friday, January 14th, 2011, 12:47 PM
I like the Scandinavian countries very much but we are different branches of the old Germanic tribes: Germany is West-Germanic and Scandinavia North-Germanic so I don´t think it would be a good idea to unite all of us under one rule. Scandinavian culture is a little bit different to West-Germanic culture and so is the language.

Well, I would prefer to unite the Bajuvarian branch of the Germanic tribes into one nation instead. ;) The same could be done to the Alemannic tribes.

The red area in the following map would be the Greater Bavarian state with all Bavarian territories united (Altbayern, Südtirol and Austria without Vorarlberg).

The green area would be the Greater Alemannic state with all Alemannic territories united (Schwaben, Baden, Vorarlberg and the German-speaking areas of Switzerland).



http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8653/2laender.jpg
Red: Greater Bavaria
Green: Greater Alemannia

These two countries could also even merge into one to create the strongest and wealthiest area on the European continent, the "Alpine Republic" or the "Upper German Republic". ;)

But the best idea, of course, would be to reunite Austria, Südtirol and maybe the German-speaking parts of Switzerland with Germany.

thirsty
Saturday, January 15th, 2011, 03:43 AM
I like the Scandinavian countries very much but we are different branches of the old Germanic tribes: Germany is West-Germanic and Scandinavia North-Germanic so I don´t think it would be a good idea to unite all of us under one rule. Scandinavian culture is a little bit different to West-Germanic culture and so is the language.

Well, I would prefer to unite the Bajuvarian branch of the Germanic tribes into one nation instead. ;) The same could be done to the Alemannic tribes.

The red area in the following map would be the Greater Bavarian state with all Bavarian territories united (Altbayern, Südtirol and Austria without Vorarlberg).

The green area would be the Greater Alemannic state with all Alemannic territories united (Schwaben, Baden, Vorarlberg and the German-speaking areas of Switzerland).



http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8653/2laender.jpg
Red: Greater Bavaria
Green: Greater Alemannia

These two countries could also even merge into one to create the strongest and wealthiest area on the European continent, the "Alpine Republic" or the "Upper German Republic". ;)

But the best idea, of course, would be to reunite Austria, Südtirol and maybe the German-speaking parts of Switzerland with Germany.

Weißwurstäquator! :D

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei%C3%9Fwurst%C3%A4quator

I think the author of the piece I linked to was merely throwing out examples of possible pairings, and it is the same cultural 'temperment' which would see the 'germanic' states of Europe in a new Hansa, complete with a teutonic Euro, more so than precise cultural differences. Prudent, rational, productive, as opposed to the Med states which are the exact opposite. :thumbup

No doubt Bavaria has a lot going for it. Between it and Switzerland there has to be a good percentage of the world's 'real' capital. Mittelstand in Bavaria with all it's industrial/engineered processes, and the capital buried throughout Swiss with half the world's gold refiners, the important ones anyways, and the only longstanding offshore jurisdiction of any kind of repute. I suppose Bregrenz, or Kreuzlingen/Konstanz would be the Hauptstadt-that would be pretty cool. Or maybe even Neuschwanstein... :)

Haduloha
Saturday, January 15th, 2011, 10:48 AM
LOL!

Indeed.:D

But it is true. They do not have really much in common. That refers not to any member on this board.

Hevneren
Sunday, January 16th, 2011, 01:03 AM
Germany already tried to "unite" our countries from 1940 to 1945, and look how well that went. I'm sure you can guess what the overall populations thought about the idea back then. If you asked Norwegians if they wanted to become a German colony, they'd say "Hell no!" and look at you like you're a crazy person.

Why on Earth would Sweden, Denmark and Norway give up their independence to become Germany's colony? Norway's sick of "unions", after 400+ years of "union" with Denmark and 91 years of "union" with Sweden, which is why we're not in the EU. Given our rather recent history with these "unions", our hard fought independence and our rather recent experiences with German imperialism, any new "union" would be unthinkable.

Apart from the obvious historical and political implications of imperialism and the ebents of World War Two, there are obvious cultural and linguistical implications as well. Too many diferences.