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View Full Version : Post-Anti-Americanism: Growing European Disdain For The U.S.



Nachtengel
Monday, August 23rd, 2010, 06:53 AM
Howard Fineman - Newsweek

... When you read about America in European newspapers, what you are likely to find is a tone bordering on pity. The U.S. is depicted as a fraying empire of obesity, ignorance, debt, gridlock, stagnation, and mindless war. Sure, the iPad is cool, but it is evidence of what America was, not what it will be again. The stories are not angry, accusatory, or even ideological. It's worse: they are condescendingly elegiac ... America is no longer admired, imitated, or feared. We remain -- for now -- a safe haven for dollars (of which there are too many in the world). But we increasingly are seen less as a model or as an empire than as a cautionary tale of national neglect and decline.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/09/post-anti-americanism.html

Joe McCarthy
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 12:53 AM
With apologies to August Bebel, anti-Americanism is the nationalism of fools.

And suffice it to say that Fineman is a liberal Jew apt to agree with European leftists regarding the US.

Æmeric
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 01:41 AM
I thought Europeans liked us since the messiah became president.

Joe McCarthy
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 01:44 AM
I thought Europeans liked us since the messiah became president.

What is interesting, and perhaps amusing, is that Obama is far more popular among Germans than he is white Americans.

Wulfram
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 01:48 AM
I thought Europeans liked us since the messiah became president.

Europeans do tend to romanticize/idealize things before actual thought. ;)
Whenever it turns sour they feign outrage.
But instead of admitting to their blunder they blame it on those darned Americans...again, and again, and again, and again...
Telescopic negrophilism is one such fancy of theirs.
As long as they don't have to live too close to them then it is perfectly okay to sympathize without ever knowing the real negro.

Ward
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 05:25 AM
Well, looking at our society I can't help wondering whether or not the Bolsheviks actually lost the Cold War after all. This country has become a veritable septic tank.

And the iPad sucks by the way.

Joe McCarthy
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 11:39 PM
Well, looking at our society I can't help wondering whether or not the Bolsheviks actually lost the Cold War after all. This country has become a veritable septic tank.


While America is a moral sewer, we at least have the advantage of not selling sex toys in grocery store checkout lines, unlike our European friends.

Europe was long ago beyond the pale sexually. Indeed, watching Adolf's and Eva's naked home video made me wonder if it was an early version of a celebrity sex tape.

nordfrisk
Tuesday, August 24th, 2010, 11:49 PM
its called an economic recession people, not the end of an empire. america and the world have been through far worst. europe isn't any better if not worst. we have found whole entire nations fall bankrupt. it was just a few days ago the US left Iraq. but the future holds either better or worst for the US. once the dubbed "baby-boomer" generation from after WWII become of age to retire (67 i think) more and more social security will be sucked up and taken from the young generations with less people. i feel bad for the future american adults. there only resort is to hope the old die fast, however people are living long and longer (ages 100 in the US are the largest growing age group). lots of bad is now, but there are a lot of goods.

Æmeric
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 01:26 AM
While America is a moral sewer, we at least have the advantage of not selling sex toys in grocery store checkout lines, unlike our European friends.

Give it time. Have you noticed the way commercials are getting more risque in the US. Grocery store checkout aisles will catch up.

Jäger
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 09:45 AM
What is interesting, and perhaps amusing, is that Obama is far more popular among Germans than he is white Americans.
The Jewish media in Germany might make you think so, but I can assure you that this is not necessarily the case. Maybe too soon to get amused?

Roemertreu
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 01:17 PM
its called an economic recession people, not the end of an empire. america and the world have been through far worst. europe isn't any better if not worst. we have found whole entire nations fall bankrupt. it was just a few days ago the US left Iraq. but the future holds either better or worst for the US. once the dubbed "baby-boomer" generation from after WWII become of age to retire (67 i think) more and more social security will be sucked up and taken from the young generations with less people. i feel bad for the future american adults. there only resort is to hope the old die fast, however people are living long and longer (ages 100 in the US are the largest growing age group). lots of bad is now, but there are a lot of goods.

With respect, there are a few glaring differences.

Huge entitlment programs (including our new OBamacare prog), deficits and national debt that probably exceeds some 3rd world nation's GDP, Trade deficit with China, loss of manufacturing, insane regulations that strangle businesses. In 1920, we didn't have any of that. We had a big bank bust, but we still had assets to rebuild with. This time China will revive our economy (if it's in their best interest), or we're screwed.

I don't see how we can rebuild our economy when we have so little to build with.

SpearBrave
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 01:30 PM
With respect, there are a few glaring differences.

Huge entitlment programs (including our new OBamacare prog), deficits and national debt that probably exceeds some 3rd world nation's GDP, Trade deficit with China, loss of manufacturing, insane regulations that strangle businesses. In 1920, we didn't have any of that. We had a big bank bust, but we still had assets to rebuild with. This time China will revive our economy (if it's in their best interest), or we're screwed.

I don't see how we can rebuild our economy when we have so little to build with.

This statement is totally untrue, while china is a big player they are only a temporary player.;)

The U.S. will always have something to rebuild their economy. This something you cannot take out of the country. This something is more valued then gold or trade. This something is the very thing that humans cannot live without. This "something" is the soil and the ability to produce enough food to feed the world many times over. That is what makes the U.S. a strong nation, hands down if other countries cannot feed their populations then they eventually fall. While gold, iron, timbers, and oil may be worth something they come way short when compared to food. I know this sounds too simple, that is because it is a simple fact. ;)

Roemertreu
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 01:40 PM
This statement is totally untrue, while china is a big player they are only a temporary player.;)

The U.S. will always have something to rebuild their economy. This something you cannot take out of the country. This something is more valued then gold or trade. This something is the very thing that humans cannot live without. This "something" is the soil and the ability to produce enough food to feed the world many times over. That is what makes the U.S. a strong nation, hands down if other countries cannot feed their populations then they eventually fall. While gold, iron, timbers, and oil may be worth something they come way short when compared to food. I know this sounds too simple, that is because it is a simple fact. ;)

really -- shut down trade with the rest of the world, and we can't even get shoes. Most of the things we use on a daily basis come from forgein ports. Sure we can eat, but our millitary relies on imported parts and the industrial manufacturing of other nations. The computers in our guidance systems aren't made in the US -- most computer components come from China. Without oil from the middle east we can't move our crops to the cities. We don't really make much of our infrastructure, let alone products for our daily use. So timbers and so on are important to have. we'll eat, but we'll be back in the middle ages because we can't keep up our infrastructure and we can't make our own products. If our money becomes so worthless that no one wants to trade with us, we're up a creek. We'll be well fed, but not much else.

SpearBrave
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 02:25 PM
You have to remember that we have our own oil, timbers, and other resources. We just try and not use them. Why don't we make our own shoes, computers or other goods? Because Americans have been led to believe cheaper is better that is why:thumbdown. WWII proved that America can start manufacturing anything at the drop of a hat.

I would not worry about the value of the American dollar so much in the long term. Nor would I worry so much if other nations want to trade with us. As I stated above we have most of our own resources. Besides dollars are really worthless scraps of debt nothing more.

When Americans buy goods made in places like china, they are really buying themselves out of employment. When there is no more money to buy these thing it will shift again.

Just remember these other nations that may not want to trade with us, they need food as well.;) Hungry people are unruly people.

Joe McCarthy
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 10:12 PM
Give it time. Have you noticed the way commercials are getting more risque in the US. Grocery store checkout aisles will catch up.

There were fully nude women in French commercials going back at least to the 70's that I know of. How long before we get to that point? 10 years? 20 years? Ever?

Joe McCarthy
Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 10:14 PM
The Jewish media in Germany might make you think so, but I can assure you that this is not necessarily the case. Maybe too soon to get amused?

55% of white Americans voted against Obama. I recall his approval rating running in the 70-80% range in Germany (if you're that interested I can probably dig up precise stats). Do your personal experiences indicate something different?

And in truth I'm not really amused, for reasons I'm sure we can both appreciate...

Joe McCarthy
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 12:10 AM
Obama's speech in Berlin during the 2008 campaign:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861047_crowd466_grab.jpg

http://www.russiablog.org/obama-berlin-germany.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2008/obama_europe/obama_berlin_08.jpg

One wonders if it is due to some American conspiracy that Germans seem to like this mulatto much more than white Americans do...

Patrioten
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 12:17 AM
Obama's speech in Berlin during the 2008 campaign:

One wonders if it is due to some American conspiracy that Germans seem to like this mulatto much more than white Americans do...The degree to which the European media has been successful in trashing Bush and his policies to the point where the man pretty much ranks up there with Hitler in leftist-media-lore did perhaps go unnoticed in America. Here it is obvious however. The continuation of this narrative came with Obama, the black (a definite positive) non-Bush (extremely positive) presidential candidate with the leftist (positive, good) agenda.

It's the perfect example of why the media in Europe will be the death of us all :P, it is simply that powerful and that influential.

Joe McCarthy
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 12:20 AM
The degree to which the European media has been successful in trashing Bush and his policies to the point where the man pretty much ranks up there with Hitler in leftist-media-lore did perhaps go unnoticed in America. Here it is obvious however. The continuation of this narrative came with Obama, the black (a definite positive) non-Bush (extremely positive) presidential candidate with the leftist (positive, good) agenda.

It's the perfect example of why the media in Europe will be the death of us all :P, it is simply that powerful and that influential.

Believe me, it didn't go unnoticed - with me anyway.

And I agree with you. The European press is atrocious. The Norwegian media makes the Jewish infected American media seem very conservative by comparison.

Roemertreu
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 02:57 AM
You have to remember that we have our own oil, timbers, and other resources. We just try and not use them. Why don't we make our own shoes, computers or other goods? Because Americans have been led to believe cheaper is better that is why:thumbdown. WWII proved that America can start manufacturing anything at the drop of a hat.

I would not worry about the value of the American dollar so much in the long term. Nor would I worry so much if other nations want to trade with us. As I stated above we have most of our own resources. Besides dollars are really worthless scraps of debt nothing more.

When Americans buy goods made in places like china, they are really buying themselves out of employment. When there is no more money to buy these thing it will shift again.

Just remember these other nations that may not want to trade with us, they need food as well.;) Hungry people are unruly people.

Absolutely true about the cheap chinese stuff. But as for our ability to ramp up in WW2 -- a good bit of that manufacruing capacity came from retooling one type of factory to another. Car factories were converted to make Jeeps and tanks and so on. That logicly requires that we *have* factories to begin with. I could turn a Saturn factory into a Humvee factory, but first I need the Saturn factory. Same with other goods: it's quick and easy to retool a factory, but it would take time to build one from scratch. And even then, oil comes mostly from abroad, which means that in a crisis or a war, we need to be able to get the oil.

Food production will still be around, provided that no other country gets the same capacity that we do.

SpearBrave
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 03:38 AM
The factories are still here ask anyone who has been to a large Eastern and Midwestern city. The reason we use foreign oil is because we keep a strategic oil reserve. We have not been in a economic down slide long enough that the U.S. factories are defunct. Many of the factories that made war material in WWII were built during the war. Ford bragged that he could turn a corn field into factory and he did it.

We are not talking about war goods but everyday needed items. Since you mentioned shoes I will use that as a example. My shoes/boots are made right here in the USA. I will say though that almost all my tools come from Germany or Austria. The only reason I use those tools are because I'm picky about them. Many things are still made here from cars to tractors to airplanes.

Don't give up the ship yet. I remember in the 1970's people were saying the same thing about Japan as they are now saying about china. The only thing we need to turn this around is a small sense of pride and fair and even trade. The biggest thing to do is first kick the bankers out or jail them.
* remember who was president during the late 70's recession.;)

About the production of food in North America. We have the largest area of self regenerating soil type in the world. That is the reason for high food production. Also to this day much of America is still very rural.:thumbup

nordfrisk
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 05:26 AM
=American Asatruar;1022883]With respect, there are a few glaring differences.

differences with what?


Huge entitlment programs (including our new OBamacare prog), deficits and national debt that probably exceeds some 3rd world nation's GDP, Trade deficit with China, loss of manufacturing, insane regulations that strangle businesses. In 1920, we didn't have any of that. We had a big bank bust, but we still had assets to rebuild with. This time China will revive our economy (if it's in their best interest), or we're screwed.

yes and your point being?? i was simply stating that we are all in a world recession. america is mostly the center of the recession but everywhere has been hit hard. and also in comparison of percentage of GDP the USA is moderatly low in debt compared to nations like greece, italy, belgium, japan, iceland, and sudan. (by percentage). also i heard from an economist that soon american businesses may leave china slowly because chinese workers are learning fast the hard work they do and are demanding higher wages (economic slaver it can only last so long) however this is just theory.


I don't see how we can rebuild our economy when we have so little to build with.

you don't know economics. the US has the highest potential economically than any other country so don't worry, that is why we pay politicians and economists to do their job. recessions happen naturally in history.

Ward
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 08:14 AM
The U.S. will always have something to rebuild their economy. This something you cannot take out of the country. This something is more valued then gold or trade. This something is the very thing that humans cannot live without. This "something" is the soil and the ability to produce enough food to feed the world many times over. That is what makes the U.S. a strong nation, hands down if other countries cannot feed their populations then they eventually fall. While gold, iron, timbers, and oil may be worth something they come way short when compared to food. I know this sounds too simple, that is because it is a simple fact. ;)

Yeah, but I seem to recall that Africa has the capacity to produce 6x the amount of food it needs to sustain its population, yet Africans need foreign aid to escape starvation because they lack the intelligence necessary for effectively cultivating their land. Now, America has degenerated to the point that it no longer produces enough of its own scientists, mathematicians, and engineers to sustain its needs in these fields, so we have to import them from places like India. Who's to say that we won't eventually become too stupid to effectively farm our own lands as well? :shrug


The degree to which the European media has been successful in trashing Bush and his policies to the point where the man pretty much ranks up there with Hitler in leftist-media-lore did perhaps go unnoticed in America. Here it is obvious however. The continuation of this narrative came with Obama, the black (a definite positive) non-Bush (extremely positive) presidential candidate with the leftist (positive, good) agenda.

Well, Bush and his policies were also trashed in the American alternative right-wing media by people concerned about preserving the sovereignty, economy, and ethnic composition of their country. If there was any justice in this country, Bush and Cheney would have been hanged for high treason long ago. Incidentally, many of the opponents of Obama over here, like those at the tea parties, liken Obama to Hitler and carry placards of him with a Hitler mustache. So there's no shortage of stupidity here, that's for sure.

Obviously I'm opposed to Obama and everything he stands for, but I can't say that I hate the guy, because for the most part I understand why he would have the kind of views that he has--he's just sticking up for the interests of his people. On the other hand, I hate Bush almost too much for sanity. America is on a downward spiral not because of guys like Obama, but because of traitors like Bush.

SpearBrave
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 10:41 AM
Yeah, but I seem to recall that Africa has the capacity to produce 6x the amount of food it needs to sustain its population, yet Africans need foreign aid to escape starvation because they lack the intelligence necessary for effectively cultivating their land. Now, America has degenerated to the point that it no longer produces enough of its own scientists, mathematicians, and engineers to sustain its needs in these fields, so we have to import them from places like India. Who's to say that we won't eventually become too stupid to effectively farm our own lands as well? :shrug


I have never heard this about Africa, if so how long can their soil withstand that kind of farming without being totally depleted? At one time they said that about Brazil, they soon found out the soil structure did not withstand long term heavy farming.

I think the issue about the scientists goes back to the idea that cheaper is better. A bad concept no matter what field it is applied to. I personally have had a bad experience with so called 'wonderful Indian' scientist. A very costly medical experience. Last year I was having pains almost like a heart attack. I went through a whole series of test(very expensive). This India wonder kept insisting that I had heart trouble he wanted me to have surgery. Well being a person that does not trust these doctors (scientist) I went and got a second and third opinion. Turns out my heart was fine on all accounts and it was my gall bladder.Just think if I had not gotten a second opinion and had heart surgery for no reason.:-O

While I do agree that our education system is getting worse, it is not time to abandon ship yet. As long as there is private and home schooling we will produce enough real scientist to still exceed these third world mongrels.

Jäger
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 11:37 AM
55% of white Americans voted against Obama. I recall his approval rating running in the 70-80% range in Germany (if you're that interested I can probably dig up precise stats). Do your personal experiences indicate something different?
There is a strong support for Obama is selected circles here in Germany, but I would not consider it the majority of Germans. Most Germans are apolitical, especially when it comes to things of foreign countries.

Bwana Doc
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 04:12 PM
Yes, Euros are mostly antiAmerican. Doesn't really bother me much. We can't do anything about it and even if we could I don't think we should, it would infringe on a basic freedom--the right to like/dislike whoever you want to. I don't much like Euros either although they have some great food, wine, tourist sites and beautiful landscapes. It's O.K. You don't have to like people to get along with them. It's kind of like Mexicans. I don't much like them either, but I get along with them.

wittwer
Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 10:26 PM
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah! I've heard it all before. "Americans are fat, ignorant, lazy and worthless". Such was the opinion of Europe prior to our entry into WWII when we sacrificed our lifes blood and treasure to pull their chestnuts out of the fire and set them on a path of long term peace. Once again we are "FAT, IGNORANT, LAZY and WORTHLESS". But too whom does Europe, not too mention the rest of World, turn to when things get dicey and they are in dire need of help? Why us "fat, ignorant, lazy and worthless Americans".

Why doesn't Europe and the rest of the World grow up and take responsibilty for their own actions and inactions; instead of constantly coming to us to pull their chestnuts out of the fire?

To quote Mark Twain, "Man is the only animal that will bite the hand that feeds it". ;)

Jäger
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 12:01 AM
Such was the opinion of Europe prior to our entry into WWII ...
Can you give a source to back this claim up? The opinion was rather that Americans are merchant crooks, I have never read anything about being fat or lazy.


... when we sacrificed our lifes blood and treasure to pull their chestnuts out of the fire and set them on a path of long term peace.
Peace in itself is meaningless.

Wulfram
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 12:04 AM
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah! I've heard it all before. "Americans are fat, ignorant, lazy and worthless".

I'm just as sick of hearing this myself.
The European media will never show the White Americans who are well-mannered, hard working, physically in good shape, highly intelligent, busily involved within their communities, or critical of their government.
Because of this most Europeans refuse to believe that there are far more examples of these types of Americans than there are the stereotypes you mentioned.

Joe McCarthy
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 12:30 AM
I'm just as sick of hearing this myself.
The European media will never show the White Americans who are well-mannered, physically in good shape, highly intelligent, busily involved within their communities, or critical of their government.
Because of this most Europeans refuse to believe that there are far more examples of these types of Americans than there are the stereotypes you mentioned.

European anti-Americanism - the mainstream not the rightist fringe - is due to a number of factors.

1. We aren't socialist enough. These louts honestly believe that the state owes them a living.

2. We're 'warmongers'. These people actually likened Bush and neo-cons to Nazis and griped of Bush's 'ultra-nationalism'.

3. We're 'uptight' sexually. Yes, as hard as it is to believe, they actually think we're too prudish with regards to sex.

4. We're too racist and are not cosmopolitan enough (this last point is not altogether without merit).

5. They're simply annoyed that we have eclipsed them in power. They don't like the fact that they're no longer in control. THIS is the primary factor in my view. It boils down to jealousy essentially.

wittwer
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 12:51 AM
Hey! I aspire to being a "Fat, Ignorant, Lazy and Worthless" Coupon Cllipper living off the labors of others and the fat of the land. Let the rest of the World live on and in its fantasy. We know the truth and the truth shall set us free. ;)

EQ Fighter
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 03:25 AM
Well Hateing American Liberalism is not a bad thing.
Such as the Marxist Trash that create the Media.

But in due respect Europeans have plenty of their own Marxist to hate as well.:thumbup

Ward
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 06:44 AM
There is a strong support for Obama is selected circles here in Germany, but I would not consider it the majority of Germans. Most Germans are apolitical, especially when it comes to things of foreign countries.

As someone who has been in a relationship with a girl born-and-raised in Germany and visited her family and friends in Germany a number of times, I can vouch for this statement.

Furthermore, based on my experiences, I can say that Germans are probably amongst the least likely people in Europe to accept the idea that someone of a foreign race can become a true part of their nation just by being born and raised in it. As strange as it sounds, this even applies to a certain extent to Germans who claim to be anti-racist. It seems that "blood" still carries a far deeper meaning in Germany than it does elsewhere in the so-called "Western" world.

Midgård
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 07:19 PM
Yet what i see in my own country is young people completely dedicated to the american culture imported via TV.

SpearBrave
Friday, August 27th, 2010, 11:19 PM
^ Well what you see on TV might not be American culture. Most things on TV are not real, even the so called 'reality' shows.;)

That is the unfortunate thing about TV as it is a very bad way to view American culture. Really how many of us know Americans that live their lives like the people on TV do?

I do recognise that their are some people who try and live their lives that way, but that must be a shallow and empty life.

EQ Fighter
Saturday, August 28th, 2010, 03:55 AM
Yet what i see in my own country is young people completely dedicated to the american culture imported via TV.

Yeah! I agree with SpearBrave on that one.
It is NOT American Culture, it is Liberal POP Culture, which is mostly crap dreamed up by East Cost and West Coast Liberals, who are predominately Jews.

They have little to do with Heartland America.

Midgård
Saturday, August 28th, 2010, 03:36 PM
^ Well what you see on TV might not be American culture. Most things on TV are not real, even the so called 'reality' shows.;)

That is the unfortunate thing about TV as it is a very bad way to view American culture. Really how many of us know Americans that live their lives like the people on TV do?

I do recognise that their are some people who try and live their lives that way, but that must be a shallow and empty life.

I see that most of these "americanized" young adults of my country are attracted to the stereotypes. The men want to be wall-street dwellers, the women want to live like 'Sex and the city' or 'The devil wears prada'.
A completely new paradigm is installed in their brains. It's poisonous.

SpearBrave
Saturday, August 28th, 2010, 10:36 PM
Yes, I do agree that it is very poisonous, but it is not real American culture.;)

I have met many Europeans that think what they see on TV is what America is like. As I stated earlier I don't see many people living the way people on TV do. Truly it is shame that people in other countries base their views of America on American TV.

Since I don't watch TV, I'm not up on the current shows. The last time I have watched any shows on TV was 2008 even then it was not much. I wish more Americans watched less TV and used their brains to think, but I might be dreaming.

I wonder how these young people over there would feel if they found out the style they imitating is fictional. :o

Bwana Doc
Saturday, August 28th, 2010, 10:44 PM
I also do not agree SpearBrave. It is Western trash culture, not American. You see much of it also in the savage regions of South America where up to 40% of the youth are unemployed. It is a culture of despair mixed with drugs and casual sex. They have forgotten (or never had) the legacy of hard work, honesty, idealism that created Western Civilization.

Joe McCarthy
Saturday, August 28th, 2010, 11:11 PM
Can you give a source to back this claim up? The opinion was rather that Americans are merchant crooks

Which of course is prickly Continental nonsense likely borne of the common envy felt by non-Anglos and Roman Catholics whose material success is typically inferior to ours.

To carry forth business in the kind of way that enables national greatness requires a good degree of honesty and trust. It is no surprise that Anglo countries score among the least corrupt in the world (in contrast to underachieving Eastern Europeans), and as Henry Ford observed, unlike Jews, Anglos do have business ethics. Indeed, the fact that Jews, unlike Anglos, have frequently incurred persecution related to business matters has much to do with this distinction.

Joe McCarthy
Saturday, August 28th, 2010, 11:13 PM
As someone who has been in a relationship with a girl born-and-raised in Germany and visited her family and friends in Germany a number of times, I can vouch for this statement.

Furthermore, based on my experiences, I can say that Germans are probably amongst the least likely people in Europe to accept the idea that someone of a foreign race can become a true part of their nation just by being born and raised in it. As strange as it sounds, this even applies to a certain extent to Germans who claim to be anti-racist. It seems that "blood" still carries a far deeper meaning in Germany than it does elsewhere in the so-called "Western" world.

I hope you two are right, but it flies in the face of polling I've seen. Anecdotes aren't very convincing...

Northern Paladin
Sunday, August 29th, 2010, 12:03 AM
we need to go back to how things were 100 years ago, sure let's continue developing technology but let's not become slaves to it.