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Mercator
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 06:52 AM
What kind of punishment do they deserve?http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb274/Gomezzz_album/Caretos/mad.gif


Bloodlust or eagerness to learn?

Published 20 July, 2009, 16:19

Edited 11 March, 2010, 14:29

Two Ukrainian female students from different universities in Kiev dissected a dog in a kitchen and posted shocking pictures and video on the Internet. They claim it was homework.

Eighteen-year-old Anna D, a second-year student from the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine of the National Institute of Biological Resources, and 19-year-old Alisa K. from Kiev’s Institute of International Relations have shocked the Internet community with Anna’s “homework,” Russian and Ukrainian media report.



The story began when the two girls decided to dissect a dead (as they insist) dog in the kitchen of Alisa’s apartment, claiming they were simply doing their best to complete Anna’s homework assignment. Moreover, they filmed the whole process on video and took a series of shocking photos with themselves posing next to the dog’s corpse. Finally, their video and photo reports found their way to the Internet.

Needless to say, such a provocative “photo session,” let alone video, evoked an immediate, angry response from animal-lovers across the Net.

“That was quite something!” Irina Sidelnik, one of the bloggers wrote, as quoted by Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper. “They put candles into the dog, then lit them up and blew out as if it was a birthday cake…”

Surprisingly, even after the shocking pictures were removed by the administration of the website where the girls initially posted them, Anna tried to make a new account and expressed her anger over the administration’s actions.

Having realized the scale of the response to their “deeds,” the two girls ultimately removed the video, but the pictures instantly spread throughout the Internet.

“We got so caught up in the process. And it didn't feel like we were doing anything wrong. I mean, I love animals. I treat them very well – that’s the reason I want to become a vet,” says Anna.

In response to the most caustic comments in her blog, which has already been removed, Alisa tried to defend her girlfriend:

“It was the homework for all students – to bring a prepared bone. Many failed to do so; others bought it at the grocery store; yet Anna is firm in her principles. And all of a sudden, we were lucky enough to get this dog killed by a car. I mean, the dog was hit in the morning, and it was hobbling till afternoon, when it died.”

“Then we picked it up in the evening, stiff with cold,” Alisa carried on. “We dragged it to my place and dissected it. The work took some six hours, if not more. Of course, we also decided to take all those pictures.”

That would be it. But the vet academy is also shocked.

“It’s not ethical to post such photographs. They're shocking. I asked the student, and she said it was a joke. But it’s not a laughing matter. There was no such task set for the students, ever. They study anatomy – but in controlled conditions, at the university labs,” says Mikhailo Prus, Dean of the Veterinary faculty.

Many raised concerns pertaining to the circumstances of the dog’s death too, spotting evidence that the dog might in fact have been killed by the pair. However, regardless of whether or not this is the case, the fact that a veterinary student simply watched the dog suffering, instead of providing help, is something beyond understanding.

“We just have a dark sense of humor, really. And we were trying to do a parody of this one really dark cartoon – well, our friends would have understood. I mean, we had the chance – why not have a laugh?” Alisa explains.

As if the photo session with the dog’s corpse was not enough, the duo have another story: this time with a mouse. In her blog, Alisa – a student at Kiev University of International Relations – describes how they injected the animal with a soporific and skinned it alive. After that, the girls removed the mouse’s intestines and took pictures “as mementoes.”

Meanwhile, responding to reactions, Kiev police state that, “there are no grounds to bring action” against the students.

With the respective legislation varying significantly between countries, a clear tendency to eliminate teaching approaches based on animal dissection can be observed nowadays worldwide, at least in medical schools.

“Almost 95 per cent of medical schools use no live animals whatsoever in their medical training. This includes such prestigious medical schools as Harvard, Yale and Stanford,” Julian Carr, a researcher who specializes in virtual dissection issues, voices his opinion, published in The Herald News.

However that may be, animal dissection remains an important learning tool in many biological disciplines, as well as in veterinary science. In this regard, it may be more valuable to put more emphasis on teaching bioethics in some countries, rather than imposing restrictions on essential laboratory techniques.

“There are dozens of ethical, acceptable ways to study the anatomy of an animal without killing it. They could have gone to a pet clinic, and simply worked with the doctors there. Healing teaches one just as much. In the end, a vet is not just about a steady hand with the scalpel – it’s also about having a heart, and these girls were completely heartless,” says Ilya Bluvshtein, chairman of Fauna animal rights protection society.

SOURCE (http://rt.com/Top_News/2009-07-20/Bloodlust_or_eagerness_to_learn.html)

http://is-is.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=53335981674&topic=11721

Another female butcher (Russian Girl and her Dog - 2009) - WARNING! GRUESOME IMAGES:thumbdown:

http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009/07/15/russian-girl-and-her-dog/

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 06:58 AM
they didn't actually kill it so they didn't commit a mortal sin, but they should definitely get their sh together.

Ocko
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I kill dear and 'dissect' them too. To honor the animal I use as much as I can.

Don't know why so many complain. It's just normal and happens every day.

when I see interesting roadkill, rattlesnakes, coyotes, bobcat etc, I take them home and skin them. If they are fresh, I also cook them.

so what?

Berlichingen
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 03:25 PM
when I see interesting roadkill, rattlesnakes, coyotes, bobcat etc, I take them home and skin them. If they are fresh, I also cook them.

so what?

You're also eating and/or preserving the carcass, not posing with corpse and sticking candles into it and then posting the pictures online, either. :D This and the fact that she admitted to skinning a mouse alive in her blog is going to cast doubt on her assertion that the dog was dead first and the dissection was done in the name of science.

Anyways, here in the States we had a similar case where this young amateur taxidermist's friends leaked pictures of her at work on a dead dog she found. Here (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Self-described_wolf_woman_severed_lost_dogs_h ead.html) is the article. There's no doubt she was an animal lover, but the pictures still caused a media frenzy. In both cases, allowing the pictures online was certainly foolish.

Berlichingen
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 03:35 PM
Though older generations would laugh at how pets are treated as people today(I remember stories of normal everyday people stuffing unwanted litters of puppies/kittens into bags and dropping them into ponds), I think that kindness to animals is a very Germanic trait. To expound on this, we tend to kill animals humanely, return the affections of useful animals like dogs, and avoid killing the more intelligent animals(dolphins, primates, et cetera). Compare to Islam believing dogs are "unclean", Chinese fur farms, and Cameroonians eating gorillas.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 03:44 PM
when I see interesting roadkill, rattlesnakes, coyotes, bobcat etc, I take them home and skin them. If they are fresh, I also cook them.

so what?


so what? you could catch a disease from it!

Thorolf
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 03:54 PM
so what? you could catch a disease from it!

Yeah and meat from stores has preservatives that probably cause all sorts of issues. Id rather eat a really fresh road kill than the store meat. I never have done it, but i would think its slightly safer.

Anyways as to the thing with the girl and the dog, that's a bit sick. Its one thing to use an animal for science, but to go taking pictures and being weird about it, also the thing someone mentioned about a mouse. There is definitely something wrong with that girl.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 04:07 PM
Yeah and meat from stores has preservatives that probably cause all sorts of issues. Id rather eat a really fresh road kill than the store meat. I never have done it, but i would think its slightly safer.

Anyways as to the thing with the girl and the dog, that's a bit sick. Its one thing to use an animal for science, but to go taking pictures and being weird about it, also the thing someone mentioned about a mouse. There is definitely something wrong with that girl.

Well... it depends on where you live and the animal involved. I would NEVER touch roadkill from Chicago or any big American city.

Ocko
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 04:50 PM
We have an older idian woman here, she has good rattlesnake recipes.

A good test whether roadkill is still good is the belly test: if you pull on the hair at the belly and it comes out, then forget it.

I surely can recommend Tom Browns survival courses. You learn quite a lot of unusual things. Though he is all for a clean and quick kill and reverence for the dead animal.

Skinning an animal alive is sick. Whether the girl said it for show or not doesn't matter. Just the idea is sick.

Agrippa
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 05:17 PM
I'm not shocked, I just think it is disgusting and this girl is somewhat mentally disordered - at least a little bit.

I would recommend to act against certain psychological tendencies in her, yet, honestly, if you saw pictures of living higher animals being tortured, f.e. in slaughterhouses or medical experiments, this thing becomes very relative.

I don't like it, I don't think such a behaviour is healthy, but I can think of much worse things too...


Skinning an animal alive is sick. Whether the girl said it for show or not doesn't matter. Just the idea is sick.

Absolutely agreed, it's a pathological Sadism to torture a higher animal (like mammals in particular) that way, for no good reason and real necessity in particular.

One of the problems I have with such people is, that some of them start with animals, but are not really trustworthy if it is about humans too probably, a lot of Sadists and serial killers started with Sadistic actions on animals by the way...

I can just hope that this nice looking girl don't degenerates into something totally despicable in the future...

wittwer
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 06:59 PM
"Butchery or Dissection" There is a difference. As for the term, "butchery" it sounds as if the Media is using loaded terms once again to appeal to the emotions and create the feeling of "horror" in it's audience. "Dissection" sounds so much more scientific and dosen't create the emotional appeal that a "butchery" does. This is just simple Propaganda at work.

I guess when we were kids learning the rudiments of biology/anatomy and dissection in school and went home and began to use our new learned skills on the flora and fauna found in the neighborhood, such as dead squirrels, rabbits, snakes, mice, frogs, turtles, birds, etc. and assorted plants and seeds and fruits to expand our knowledge base, the Media today would classify us as "Butchers". I guess sadly, Science today, is becoming Politically Incorrect...

At least back then, we didn't have home videos to film the procedures or the Internet to upload them to and at the same time startle the sensitivities of an international mass audience. We always performed our studies in the secrecy of the garage. When asked what we were doing out there, our response, "We're sperimenting!"

Sigurd
Wednesday, August 18th, 2010, 08:40 PM
The problem is not the dissecting itself, nor the dissecting of a higher animal. The problem is that this was a dog. I'm not saying this not just because I'm a dog person - but because of the status dogs have in our societies: They're our foremost pets, considered like members of the family - and remarkably similar actually in natural pack structure (see wolves).

It is somewhat like - we would eat cows, we would eat swine, we would eat sheep --- but we wouldn't eat dogs or cats. When we hear reports of this being done in China as a delicacy, it grosses us out: Simply for the reason that these animals have such a high social status in our latitude/longitude and that such would be considered improper, it'd seem to us like eating your little brother.

The same goes to dissecting a dog - it is equally provocative, and equally disgusting. I doubt anyone would have bothered with reporting this had it been a pig. Either way, I think it's uncultured and extreme, and that the girls probably have some mental issue to even come up with the idea. It's gross to say the least. :thumbdown

I love dogs, and we have one ourselves, and I wouldn't want anyone to do that to my dog, dead or alive (what you do to my dog, you do to me - and you'll be lucky if I don't "repay the favour"). If he were dead, even roadkill I'd wish if someone'd just let him rest in peace - not in pieces. :|

Berlichingen
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 08:40 AM
Apologies for the thread necromancy:

There's been some tumult in my corner of the internet about this 19 year old Bosnian girl gleefully throwing puppies into a river. I don't need to tell you this video is sad and disturbing:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bb4_1283184704

There is just something seriously wrong with Eastern Europeans. They may often look like us, but their mindsets are alien.

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 09:17 AM
They may often look like us, but their mindsets are alien.

I was just thinking that same thing, throwing puppies into a river???? :(

Eastern European guy walking on an overpass thinking "let's see... oh there's a huge brick on this overpass.. I think I might toss it down onto the traffic below... that will be a rewarding experience!"

Rassenhygieniker
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 09:22 AM
You know, such practice is also very common amongst Eastern Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) with dogs and cats, crushing a kitten skull with high heels just to satisfy their sick perversions just show the true nature of these untermenschen. Mongoloids just take pleasure in sadism, and cruelty, since alot of Slavs have mongoloid blood, that explains it.

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 09:37 AM
You know, such practice is also very common amongst Eastern Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) with dogs and cats, crushing a kitten skull with high heels just to satisfy their sick perversions just show the true nature of these untermenschen. Mongoloids just take pleasure in sadism, and cruelty, since alot of Slavs have mongoloid blood, that explains it.

I'm not trying to offend Slavs, who are White and European, but non-Whites (including non-Europid Caucasoids) seem to have a problem understanding simple logic. What I keep noticing, is that they almost always resort to their animal instincts, whether they be lowlife gangbangers or distinguished individuals such as politicians, professors, etc...


An Iranian newspaper called Carla Bruni-Sarkozy a prostitute, and later said that she deserved to die. Bruni posted a call for clemency of a woman sentenced to be stoned to death by the Iranian government for committing adultery.


The "prostitute" claims stem from the supermodel's active social life before she married the French president. Many believe that she's the reason that Nicolas Sarkozy divorced his former wife.


Bruni is far from alone in demanding the clemency of the woman in Iran sentenced to death by stoning. Many within the international community do not think that the crime warrants the punishment.


The French Foreign ministry spoke out about the comments, and the Iranian government has publicly backed away from the comments made by the state-run newspaper.


I must say I was shocked when Iran called Carla Bruni a prostitute. My jaw hit the floor when they said she deserved to die...

http://politics-and-world-5678.blogspot.com/2010/09/iranian-newspaper-claims-carla-bruni.html

how civilized of them

Rassenhygieniker
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 09:46 AM
I'm not trying to offend Slavs, who are White and European,

Does not say much, some Slavs are very White and some are very non-white.



http://politics-and-world-5678.blogspot.com/2010/09/iranian-newspaper-claims-carla-bruni.html

how civilized of them

Well Sarkozy is a jew and all his wives have been jewesses, which of course includes Carla Bruni.

What I was talking about is things like this:

http://thetheologianscafe.xanga.com/694318334/woman-kills-kitten-with-high-heels/

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 09:52 AM
Well Sarkozy is a jew and all his wives have been jewesses, which of course includes Carla Bruni.

I didn't know Carla Bruni was a Jewess, sure doesn't look like one anyway, but yeah, that chink and that poor kitten :upset

Old Winter
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 03:03 PM
You know, such practice is also very common amongst Eastern Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) with dogs and cats, crushing a kitten skull with high heels just to satisfy their sick perversions just show the true nature of these untermenschen. Mongoloids just take pleasure in sadism, and cruelty, since alot of Slavs have mongoloid blood, that explains it.

*looks at the meat industry, vivisection and the destruction of nature and whole animal species in the West*

Ragnar Lodbrok
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 03:52 PM
*looks at the meat industry, vivisection and the destruction of nature and whole animal species in the West*

Thats true, just because certain traits for certain sadistic tendencies appear more in certain parts of the world that doesn't mean only select parts of the world are guilty of it.

Our culture and cultural practices have become very abusive of animals and nature. I myself once had a friend in high school who bothered me about injecting draino into a live rat. I told him to find something else to do with his time and made him forget about the rat.

Also most cow-meat farms in the USA like to castrate and skin their cattle alive before preparing them for the McDonald's and Burger King's and whatnots.

I would've liked to see that girl throwing the puppies into the river get shot threw the head though. What a little bitch...

Renwein
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 07:17 PM
What kind of punishment do they deserve?http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb274/Gomezzz_album/Caretos/mad.gif

None. Why do do they deserve punshment?
Granted, if they killed someone's dog in a horrible way and cut it up, they should be punished under animal abuse laws.
but taking the story at face value, no, wishing violent retribution on some humans for cutting up a dead animal smacks of horrible, decedent, knee-jerk anti-human modern western sentimentalism to me


Apologies for the thread necromancy:
...
There is just something seriously wrong with Eastern Europeans. They may often look like us, but their mindsets are alien.

this type of thing happened plenty in western europe in the past (and still does, but moreso before technology was so prevelent)



I would've liked to see that girl throwing the puppies into the river get shot threw the head though. What a little bitch...

odds are that a few or more of your ancestors only a few generations back would have done similar things, especially if they had a lot of dealings with animals.
Likewise anyone celebrating pedigree dogs whether 'germanic' (dobermann etc) or otherwise shoudl be aware that that kind of thing would have been very frequent in the artificial selection of breeds (to dispose of unwanted puppies, as was the case in the video).
probably was often done worse too, drowning being not such a bad way to go, all in all.

I'm curious to hear why you think shooting her in the head would be an ethical thing to do, incidentally.


I'm not shocked, I just think it is disgusting and this girl is somewhat mentally disordered - at least a little bit.

without similar 'disorder' progress in the natural sciences would be, well, nil.
That's why when reading about experiments in the 1800's or early 1900's today, they always include a bit talking about why such and so wouldn't be acceptable today (also when dealing with the 'racial' bits, except then they also say they are 'false' ;)).
Also 'victorian gothic' being a particular trope/style today, with the general perception of that time being 'macabre', by today's standards.
Thankfully westerners were not so lily-livered but rather 'mentally disordered' back then ;)
Probably it has to do with most people in the west living in cities, and only dealing with 'the wild' in the form of cute pets, cute animals on TV, cute pictures of animals for their phone/desktop, and fresh, de-personalised slivers of plastic-wrapped meat in supermarkets, meaning they don't have to think about the 'nasty stuff'.
Which is not to say that certain experiments in the past (eg. 'pit of despair' on primates) were not unneccesary, repellant and undefendable.

Berlichingen
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 09:42 PM
I'm more than aware that is was once acceptable in Western Europe. There was an annual cat massacre in Ypres, et cetera. Of course, "people did it that way X number of centuries ago, therefore it's okay now" is the sort of logic that allows Muslim savages to justify lobbing of girls' clitorises, blowing up buildings, and stoning women do death for being raped. We're better than that and we have dirt cheap lethal and mostly painless injection available. I've been around water most of my life, let me assure that drowning is not a good way to go.

As I mentioned earlier in the discussion, drowning unwanted kittens/puppies in bags was once common. A task done with solemnity by the man of the house. Not some teenaged girl who giggles all the way through it and has it filmed and put on the internet. You don't have a be a PETA member to wonder about the state of the girl's mental health.

Northern Paladin
Thursday, September 16th, 2010, 01:33 AM
Just thought I'd share this with you

http://www.associatepublisher.com/e/a/al/albanian_pederasty.htm

This sort of thing is also common in some Asian culture, where a young man receives oral sex from a young boy, who will one day grow up and receive oral sex from a young boy, it's some sick rite of passage.