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Matrix
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 12:39 AM
I saw some members sporting Christian symbolism and figures in their avatars which is offensive to real Germanics because of the history of slaughter done against them by Christians. Political avatars are apparently not allowed, so why should Christians be allowed to use their profiles for religious preaching and propaganda? How is it more tolerable than political propaganda?

Bärin
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 12:55 AM
That would mean Pagan avatars would have to be banned too, and many Pagans believe Paganism is not a "religion". That's what they wrote here. Other people consider Pagan symbolism just mythology or history, not religious. Then it would mean black metal avatars would have to be banned too because some of them are Pagan themed. Would a Viking or a runestone qualify as a Pagan avatar and have to be banned? :oanieyes

If Christianity is offensive to Germanics, then it should be banned entirely as a religion-ideology hostile to Germanics and their heritage, not just avatars, problem solved. But that was discussed already and the admins tolerate Christians here end of story.

Ragnar Lodbrok
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:09 AM
That would mean Pagan avatars would have to be banned too, and many Pagans believe Paganism is not a "religion". That's what they wrote here. Other people consider Pagan symbolism just mythology or history, not religious. Then it would mean black metal avatars would have to be banned too because some of them are Pagan themed. Would a Viking or a runestone qualify as a Pagan avatar and have to be banned? :oanieyes

If Christianity is offensive to Germanics, then it should be banned entirely as a religion-ideology hostile to Germanics and their heritage, not just avatars, problem solved. But that was discussed already and the admins tolerate Christians here end of story.

Just keep politics out of the avatars and everythings cool...

Matrix
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:11 AM
Just keep politics out of the avatars and everythings cool...
Why? What makes religious avatars more allowable than political ones?

Rassenhygieniker
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:16 AM
why should Christians be allowed to use their profiles for religious preaching and propaganda?

Who does that?

Siebenbürgerin
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:17 AM
I don't think it's a good idea to tighten the bans on a forum which is free speech. Political avatars aren't allowed, I understand the point a little bit because some users could use illegal symbols otherwise which could cause problems for themselves or the European staff. But generally I'm against limitations of freedom of expression for Germanics. But the political situation is not the fault of Skadi, it's the fault of the regimes which have the laws to convict peoples who use National Socialist imagery like Swastikas for hate crimes. With all due respect Matrix, in my view Skadi needn't to copy the kind of Draconian laws and apply them for religious expression.

Matrix
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:34 AM
Who does that?
Some people who use Charlemagne, a guy named Lothar and a guy named Devin something had a Christian profile, although the last one seems to have removed it.


I don't think it's a good idea to tighten the bans on a forum which is free speech.
Since when are avatars a form of speech?

Æmeric
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:35 AM
Whether you like it or not Christianity is a big part of European history & culture. Some of the most architecturally important buildings in Europe are churches. And what about all of those national flags that feature a cross, ban them because they are Christian?


http://www.33ff.com/flags/XL_flags/Denmark_flag.gif

http://lsnhs.leesummit.k12.mo.us/webclasseslsn/dtwp07-08/spring08/hour1/historical_lauren/images/flaggg.gif

http://www.33ff.com/flags/XL_flags/Norway_flag.gif

http://www.domesholiday.com/LinkClick.aspx?link=large_flag_of_sweden .gif&tabid=203&mid=683

While we're at it lets ban anything to do with the Crusades, too much Christian symbolism there. :oanieyes

Europe had a glorious past up to WWI & Chrisitianity was part of it. Eradicating al symbolism of Christianity is something Muslims want. If for no other reason I would think you would appreciate Chrisitan symbols because they offend Muslims.

Matrix
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:42 AM
Whether you like it or not Christianity is a big part of European history & culture. Some of the most architecturally important buildings in Europe are churches. And what about all of those national flags that feature a cross, ban them because they are Christian?
Flags lost their religious meaning overtime and just serve to represent countries. I'd change the flags too if I could though.


Eradicating al symbolism of Christianity is something Muslims want. If for no other reason I would think you would appreciate Chrisitan symbols because they offend Muslims.
Christians and Muslims are in the same pot to me. Like Muslims and Jews. None of them is appreciated.

Nachtengel
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 01:44 AM
I would say no, and allow political avatars too. :P

Bernhard
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 09:47 AM
Since when are avatars a form of speech?

It appears that you see them as a way of communication by calling some of them propaganda etc., so how are they not?

Thorolf
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 05:01 PM
I think it would be a stupid to take away religious symbols. Thats the same sort of crap the government is trying to do and it's taking away a freedom of expression.

Lothar
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Some people who use Charlemagne, a guy named Lothar and a guy named Devin something had a Christian profile, although the last one seems to have removed it.


Since when are avatars a form of speech?

since you have not read about why I chose my avatar, I submit this link to another Skadi page about our avatars, my avatar is of a German King that was the origin of my Fathers name.
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=77907&page=55

I often wonder where you think pagans would be without German Christians like Martin Luther who brought about the Protestant Reformation. how would the world have turned out if the Catholic church still wielded the power they once had.
Might make a good movie

Drottin
Sunday, May 30th, 2010, 10:50 PM
Just ban the jew and arab religions:

Christians
Muslims
Judaism
Etc

german islander
Monday, May 31st, 2010, 12:12 AM
well most people vote against such a notion. this is good to see that such extreme censorship is not popular opinion here

Thusnelda
Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010, 04:45 PM
I saw some members sporting Christian symbolism and figures in their avatars which is offensive to real Germanics because of the history of slaughter done against them by Christians. Political avatars are apparently not allowed, so why should Christians be allowed to use their profiles for religious preaching and propaganda? How is it more tolerable than political propaganda?
As an Asatruar I can see the dark spots of Christianity, believe me. :) But the other truth is that Christianity played a major role in European history, it´s a part of our culture and a legacy of most of our ancestors - if you like it or not. In times like this we can´t pick allies. I consider proud Germanics as allies, regardless of their religious heathen, atheist or christian orientation. All what matters is that they share our goals of Germanic preservation. Over the centuries, Christianity became a part of our culture. Do I support it? No. Do I acknowledge the fact? Yes. Anything else would be like ignoring reality.

Religious avatars won't be banned unless they are clearly hostile against our Germanic orientation. Which automatically bans insignias of Islam or Judaism, for example. ;)

Horagalles
Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010, 08:36 PM
As an Asatruar I can see the dark spots of Christianity, believe me. :) But the other truth is that Christianity played a major role in European history, it´s a part of our culture and a legacy of most of our ancestors - if you like it or not. In times like this we can´t pick allies. I consider proud Germanics as allies, regardless of their religious heathen, atheist or christian orientation. All what matters is that they share our goals of Germanic preservation. Over the centuries, Christianity became a part of our culture. Do I support it? No. Do I acknowledge the fact? Yes. Anything else would be like ignoring reality. The dark spots aren't in dispute as an absolute. But I've seen some claims being made concerning the Christianization of Europe that are simply ridiculous. One narrative is that our Germanic ancestor generally became Christians by being forced to adapt or die, by the sword, through torture and the like. There is no historicity to that kind of narratives. The fact is that prominent members of Germanic societies decided to become Christians and others followed their example with the rest of the population following slowly via emulation and adaption. There may have been scenes were coercion was involved, but often this was rather the result of power struggles between faction who may loosely be define along religious lines.
So far my five cent to this. I'm just making a point that there is a problem with trying to pick a fight using dumb lines of arguments "We were persecuted, tortured and killed by those evil Christians" that aren't founded in reality either (Trying to gain sympathy for neo-Pagans and against anything Christian). These are typically rhetorical devices used by Jews to swing sympathy in their favor and they are unworthy to Germanics of whatever religious conviction or orientation. Said that I don't want to debate Christianity or Christianization here, since there are already numerous threads doing that. The issue is just dealing with silly types of arguments and not those specific subjects.




Religious avatars won't be banned unless they are clearly hostile against our Germanic orientation. Which automatically bans insignias of Islam or Judaism, for example. ;)... And I think we should keep it that way.
I've got definitely a problem with attempts to try to transform a cultural/political forum like Skadi into the exclusive platform for certain sects. The problem isn't unfamiliar to me, since I know of some Afrikaans-speaking forums were attempts were made to make those forums platforms for certain Christian or even Israelism-sects. In that case I was actually in favor of banning religion completely on those forums, since the subject got dragged into any debate however far it may have been moved from theological themes.

Drottin
Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010, 11:37 PM
Christianity has always been and will always remain an instrument of power, to control idiots. Islam is developed further. Islam is a better system, and the latest, in which the last vestige of freedom in man is taken away. Christianity is lost, they simply added the road ready for Islam. Anyone who thinks otherwise is totally idiots. Christianity has introduced shit in all our countries, this is used by Islam to establish itself permanently.

One can not accept a completely ridiculous goofy imposed religion, created by Jews and Arabs, just because Christianity has a "history" in Europe ...

My ancestors said: "Å være vinglete er verre en alt"

Christianity is 100 % anti germanic, for sure.

Ediruc
Thursday, June 3rd, 2010, 01:42 AM
The problem is that this is sort of a contradiction on our part, however you look at it. Say someone wants to have an Islamic symbol for an avatar. It is evident that Islam has always proven to be a dangerous threat to our people, but should we get iffy and ban religious symbols over that, even though we have the Gods-given right to that freedom to do so? This forum stands for Germanic freedom -- however you view that ideology. Is it in our right and freedom (as Germanic folk living in a Germanic society) to be members of foreign religions?

Sigurd
Thursday, June 3rd, 2010, 11:21 AM
The old slogan of the forum was about "Germanic Racial, Spiritual and Cultural Preservation". Spiritual Preservation has, at least nominally, a big part of concern at Skadi, and I would be happy if people were more disposed to contribute to those sections constructively, but you can't have everything. :P

Certainly, considering our overall orientation, I disbelieve in banning religious avatars or signatures unless they would be generally considered overall offensive to Germanics. An avatar of Charlemagne is arguably offensive to us Heathens, but we have thick skin. We accept that besides his shenanigans, he was arguably a good example of a Germanic Emperor and thus accept if people wish to emulate him. :shrug

Horagalles
Thursday, June 3rd, 2010, 11:59 AM
As said, this is not a thread to discuss the merits of Christianity. There are numerous other threads that do it.

Christianity has always been and will always remain an instrument of power, to control idiots. Islam is developed further. Islam is a better system, and the latest, in which the last vestige of freedom in man is taken away. Christianity is lost, they simply added the road ready for Islam. Anyone who thinks otherwise is totally idiots. Christianity has introduced shit in all our countries, this is used by Islam to establish itself permanently.That can be said about any other religion, ideology or philosophy as well including atheism or even anti-clericalism. It's simply a fact of life that people and groups do have certain belief systems that they are working according, too. To say the other once are bad and to control idiots is begging the question, whether yours is good and if you can prove that you are not an idiot.


One can not accept a completely ridiculous goofy imposed religion, created by Jews and Arabs, just because Christianity has a "history" in Europe ...
My ancestors said: "Å være vinglete er verre en alt"
Christianity is 100 % anti germanic, for sure.You presuppose that you know how these religions / belief systems came into being. That they are kind of socially constructed by certain ethnic groups. Now, those who support Christianity will tell you otherwise, they'll tell you that it is unique in the sense that the supreme being and creator of the universe revealed the teachings of their belief system to them. That is of course not something that can be easily verified.

Anyway as long as avatars are not placed with the sole intention to stir or to provoke, it is fine with me.

Mouse Shadow
Thursday, June 3rd, 2010, 12:03 PM
Hey! If they banned religious avatars, how would we know who and what to tease them about? :D

I'd say ban the spew and mugalims ones. The others are needed for the occasional poke and giggle. I consider the user who has one is advertsing like Nike or CocoPops. I don't see much other than that. They are people, if just following 'some' absent rule sets. :P

Anyway, I think it's apporaching the evil notion of 'Political Correctness', if we start banning certain lesser things.

german islander
Thursday, June 3rd, 2010, 03:35 PM
your screaming at a wall. you dont like christians and the christian faith? to bad.
It has been apart of our culture for over 1000 years and is rooted within or heritage. I have no intent of casting aside my Christian faith and heritage.
You do not have the right to violate that and force others to follow your theological mindset. Furthermore Christ made a religion very different from the Jews and other religions in the area at that time it was made to be universal white christians have there culture and black christians have there culture and egyptian christians have the coptic church and the byzatine church and eastern orthodox and greek orthodox and russian orthodox ect ect, people still maintain there culture despite the fact we have a religion that has the same roots. your beating a dead horse




Flags lost their religious meaning overtime and just serve to represent countries. I'd change the flags too if I could though.


Christians and Muslims are in the same pot to me. Like Muslims and Jews. None of them is appreciated.

Blod og Jord
Thursday, June 3rd, 2010, 06:49 PM
I'm not a lover of Christianity either but I think everyone should pick what avatar they like as long as there is no abuse and exaggeration. I don't think a forum full of Christian icons would look like Germanic heritage but we don't have this problem.

Æğele Wiğercwida
Saturday, June 5th, 2010, 12:02 AM
Personally I find almost ALL images used on Skadi to be very aestheticaly pleasing.

Now fair enough if you dislike Christian theology, but surely you must realise that the customs and traditions, the trappings that go along with it, are of a distinctly Germanic flavour.

Also, Christian artwork reached its pinnacle in Germanic culture and that was down to the inherent traits of the germanic peoples.

Tripredacus
Saturday, June 5th, 2010, 03:18 AM
IMO, if you find anything to be offensive, you are not comfortable or at peace with your own beliefs, whether they be religious or racial. Those who accept who they are do not get offended by other peoples' beliefs.

PS: I voted no.