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SaxonCeorl
Friday, March 26th, 2010, 08:33 PM
I've always admired all fellow European cultures, but particularly the ancient Greeks and Romans. They discovered so much in the areas of science, math, architecture, philosophy, etc., and are the originators of much of pan-European culture today.

So, what do you think about our Mediterranean brothers and sisters?

Ediruc
Saturday, March 27th, 2010, 12:39 AM
There's an old idea that the original Greeks and Romans were of Nordic-Aryan descent. I don't know if I agree with this viewpoint, but, if that explains how the two civilizations rose up to be so great, I could believe it.

Stimme
Saturday, March 27th, 2010, 07:15 PM
I heard of that story, too (the Ancient Greeks being Germanic) but that's propaganda of the Nazis who tried to prove the Germanic's greatness with them being involved in the development of every high culture.

I also heard that the 'trend' of Ancient Greeks dying their hair blonde came from invasions of some Germanics. The Women were so impressed by their nordic beauty that they tried to look like them. :D

Joe McCarthy
Saturday, March 27th, 2010, 07:20 PM
I also heard that the 'trend' of Ancient Greeks dying their hair blonde came from invasions of some Germanics. The Women were so impressed by their nordic beauty that they tried to look like them. :D

There is of course a lot of debate on this point, but there is a good bit of evidence that many of the Dorians were blonde. Certainly blondism is not unknown in Greece even today.

Rowanthorne
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 05:58 AM
Yeah blonde Greek people do happen so do blonde people from Italy. As far as culture themselves the romans did manage to get a good systems of roads going. For the time at the very least.

Matamoros
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 06:21 AM
I respect them and their culture, but they are not my people or my culture.

"Nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there..."

Sigurd
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 10:16 AM
What "Graeco-Roman" people? By linguistic analysis we would find that Italic and Hellenic inhabit different branches, with Hellenic being a unique branch. All similarities that are otherwise closer - by lexicon, culture, and genetically, are through later approximation, considering the admiration for Greek thought the Romans had). Another of these "arisen by approximation" constructs is likely the "Celto-Germanic" construct. ;)

Secondly, I'm curious why people link blondism to Germanics again. A mutation that arose long before Germanic ethnogenesis is bound to be spread amongst several populations, to varying degrees, by design --- that blonde hair end up in the Balkans by Germanic migration is pseudo-scientific bollocks. :|

Thusnelda
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 04:03 PM
I have some respect for the ancient Greco-Roman culture and their respective achievements, but I don´t share their self-centered view and their vilification of the "Barbarian and backward tribes" in Northern Europe of that time. Furthermore, I despise their imperialism, their morally questionable developments and their historical urge to conquer other tribes and territories. Fortunately we could give the Romans a kick in the butt in 9 A.D. when they tried to conquer Germanic lands like they did with Celtic land before. Where Vercingetorix failed Hermann the Cherusker and many more could hold the line, giving the clearest possible "NO!" to a German(ic) world under Roman control. :)

Méldmir
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 04:46 PM
I don't know Greece, but I like Italy. Not necesseraliy just the Roman part of its history and culture, but overall. Although I don't think Mediterranians are our brothers and sisters, remember that that includes Egypt, Syria and alot of other countries. The Italians I could feel some sort of kinship with are those in the north that could fit in Germanic countries. But kinship or no kinship, both northern and southern Italy has nice places and climate to visit.

huntsman
Wednesday, June 30th, 2010, 05:58 PM
Mediterranean occupied Greece and Italy before the "Greeks" and "Romans." Both Greeks and Romans represented a northern incursion, which was eventually absorbed back into the substrata.

Nothing could be less "Mediterranean" that the rigor, austerity, and discipline of the early classical world.

HeathenAmerican
Friday, July 2nd, 2010, 05:44 PM
Im actually kinda sick of " Greco-Roman " culture.

In school in America, all you learn about is that. The only Germanic story ever told in class was like Beowulf. Its kind of ridiculous to teach southern European history and myths, hell we even learned about Odyssus, but not at all about our own culture. It kind of was the door opening my awakening, I began to get more and more mad that the teachers seemed to not even know about any of our own culture. So honestly, I don't like the Roman culture nor Greek culture.

Drottin
Friday, July 2nd, 2010, 08:24 PM
Im tired of " Greco-Roman " culture too.. It doesnt mean a shit to me.. Right outside where i live they still find tings that vikings collected from romans getting in their way:)

runder
Sunday, July 4th, 2010, 12:11 AM
I began to get more and more mad that the teachers seemed to not even know about any of our own culture. So honestly, I don't like the Roman culture nor Greek culture.

They probably didn't. In the US, most teachers are people who wanted to do something else but realized halfway through college that they didn't have the aptitude to do so. Teaching was the fall back career.

Ullrson
Sunday, July 4th, 2010, 01:34 AM
I greatly admire both, even if they aren't Germanic and are always stealing the spotlight in academics. Their racial character was similar to our own, such as how almost the entire House of Fabii was wiped out in one battle to save Rome, how the Romans captured a Carthaginian ship and proceeded to mass produce it and beat them in the next battle, the leadership of Pericles during the Peloponesian War, their high art, literature and philosophy which blows away modern trash etc etc etc.

Had the Greeks fallen to Persia instead of vice versa Northern Europe could have been their next target, although I wouldn't be surprised if a tribal confederation could have beaten them with climate, tactics, ferocity, etc.

Their fall is a warning against decadence, illegal immigration, hyper legality and bureacracy, unrestrained executive power, and interbreeding.

Thorwolf
Sunday, August 29th, 2010, 03:31 AM
If you research the pedigrees of the Saxons and the franks you will find that they both go back to crete, and troy!

Caledonian
Wednesday, September 22nd, 2010, 01:07 AM
There's an old idea that the original Greeks and Romans were of Nordic-Aryan descent. I don't know if I agree with this viewpoint, but, if that explains how the two civilizations rose up to be so great, I could believe it.

If you have seen the skeletal remains of the Romans you would see that they were quite too short to be nordic.

I remember reading that the average ancient Roman was five feet somthing.

I'm not sure about the Greeks in comparison but I wouldn't try to describe their ancient ancestors as being nordic either.

I have a problem with people claiming the ancient Greeks and Romans to be ancient nordics especially when there is no proof for that.

That's about as silly in comparison to those who believe that ancient Egypt was started by a vast amount of nordic aryans as well. [Yes some of the pharoahs and queens had red or blonde hair but such exceptions does not define the general consensus of ancient Egypt or the fact that most ancient Egyptians depicted in glyphs have red skin.]

As for Greco Roman people I respect them in being a main part as innovators of western culture along with Germanic culture.

I respect ancient Greek and Roman culture despite their past historical invasions of Germanic tribes.

Of course there is more to Italian and Greek culture to be appreciated other than their ancient past as well too.

[Their food for starters.]

Particularly with ancient Greeks I like their vast amount of surviving ancient writing and literature along with them being instrumental in creating western philosophy somthing of which I hold very close to my heart.

If it wasn't for the story of Socrates constantly recalled in my early childhood as I often read about the man I might of never gone into philosophy as much as I have had being that philosophy is one of my life long passions.

Wynterwade
Wednesday, September 22nd, 2010, 01:35 AM
I really enjoy learning about the Romans and Greeks.

But they never taught us about the Celtics or Germanics in school- that really angers me.

In school we learn about tribes from all around the world, the Indians the Egyptians the Roman Empire the Babylonians the Chinese (we learned nothing on northern European peoples), then we go strait to Columbus- skipping everything in between the fall of rome and 1492 and anything that happened in northern Europe.

The first time we talked about northern Europe is the paragraph on world war 2 then the paragraph on the holocaust.

They don't teach about our genetic origins and human evolution- (read "the 10,000 year explosion"), the vikings, our ancient cultures, linguistic history or so many more things.

Our history classes in school suck.

Caledonian
Wednesday, September 22nd, 2010, 01:42 AM
I really enjoy learning about the Romans and Greeks.

But they never taught us about the Celtics or Germanics in school- that really angers me.

In school we learn about tribes from all around the world, the Indians the Egyptians the Roman Empire the Babylonians the Chinese (we learned nothing on northern European peoples), then we go strait to Columbus- skipping everything in between the fall of rome and 1492 and anything that happened in northern Europe.

The first time we talked about northern Europe is the paragraph on world war 2 then the paragraph on the holocaust.

They don't teach about our genetic origins and human evolution- (read "the 10,000 year explosion"), the vikings, our ancient cultures, linguistic history or so many more things.

Our history classes in school suck.

Agreed.

They should address more about the values and contributions of many ethnic European cultures other than what they currently do.

SaxonCeorl
Wednesday, September 22nd, 2010, 02:04 AM
I seem to recall my school teaching us about Erik the Red and the Viking exploration of North America.

wittwer
Thursday, September 23rd, 2010, 12:51 AM
As for the teaching of the subject of Greco-Roman culture, the reason being, that the majority of the Modern Western Cultural Institutions are derived from them. No too mention, that is what the State requires the Teacher to teach as the basic core curricula. If they were to strike out on their own, they'd be out of a job. As for our schools, we also require the teaching of other cultural institutions contributions to our Modern Western Culture.

As for other learning outside of the core curricula, there is the Library. You do know what a Library is and for? All it takes is a little of your time, unless you're lazy... So don't blame the Teacher. :D

leoninfernal
Tuesday, September 28th, 2010, 11:57 AM
As is well known, the origins of the classical greco-roman culture are undoubtedly Germanic, when I listen to the world Greco-Roman I understand that we are talking about one the branches of the great Aryan culture.

Hersir
Tuesday, September 28th, 2010, 12:32 PM
I've always admired all fellow European cultures, but particularly the ancient Greeks and Romans. They discovered so much in the areas of science, math, architecture, philosophy, etc., and are the originators of much of pan-European culture today.

So, what do you think about our Mediterranean brothers and sisters?

After reading Terry Jones' barbarians, I'm not so sure if this is correct.

Fyrgenholt
Tuesday, September 28th, 2010, 12:59 PM
I don't mind historic Greek and Roman culture, but I do think education up here should be more focused upon our own cultural histories.

Hersir, is Barbarians worth the read? I've thought about purchasing it before but I'm always quite wary of BBC affiliated works. I believe a TV series made in correlation with the book was released, too, but I can't find a comprehensive and orderly posting of it on Youtube.


As is well known, the origins of the classical greco-roman culture are undoubtedly Germanic,

How so?

Hersir
Thursday, September 30th, 2010, 11:56 AM
I don't mind historic Greek and Roman culture, but I do think education up here should be more focused upon our own cultural histories.

Hersir, is Barbarians worth the read? I've thought about purchasing it before but I'm always quite wary of BBC affiliated works. I believe a TV series made in correlation with the book was released, too, but I can't find a comprehensive and orderly posting of it on Youtube.

Yes, I think it's worth it. 12 USD for the paperback here (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Barbarians/Terry-Jones/e/9780563539162/?itm=3&USRI=barbarians+terry+jones)

It is written in a very humorous way. Havnt seen the show, but I have downloaded it from the bay.

Bernhard
Thursday, September 30th, 2010, 03:44 PM
What "Graeco-Roman" people?

The topic's about Graeco-Roman culture, not people or language. Greaco-Roman culture surely existed.

Juthunge
Sunday, October 3rd, 2010, 10:03 PM
I think the Roman Republic was, after Germanics and Celts that is, the greatest culture in the world. I pay deference to their army and their endurance in war, same goes for the Spartans. Roman problems began when they started to rely hugely on slaves from outside of Europe and when they started to expand outside of the western Mediterranean or let's say southern Europe. From that point on, they continuous went down the drain.

Although, as others already mentioned, history classes in our countries rely to heavily on Graeco-Roman history and far to less on our own.

Midgård
Friday, October 8th, 2010, 09:36 PM
Interesting and noble cultures (mostly). I don't like the allowance of miscegenation in Rome though nor the expansion northwards.:~(

Neophyte
Friday, October 8th, 2010, 10:10 PM
The topic's about Graeco-Roman culture, not people or language. Greaco-Roman culture surely existed.

I.e. Hellenistic culture. It might have been good at first, as far as we are talking Sparta, Athens and Rome. But then it degenerated into a multiracial universalism that ulitmately destroyed it. Christianity is its crowning achievement in this regard.

Gunwi
Saturday, November 13th, 2010, 01:57 PM
I respect every branch of european culture, it is all sacred and must be preserved. With each branch allowed to fulfill its destiny.

Das Ubertarian
Sunday, November 14th, 2010, 01:43 AM
The inhabitants of Greece and Italy are not the Greeks and Romans. Centuries of mixing with slaves from Asia and Africa diluted their blood stream to the point that they became unrecognizable. Do you seriously think a bunch of 5'4'' swarthy Italians would've beaten the Gauls? I think not.

Elessar
Sunday, November 14th, 2010, 02:56 AM
Personally I love Classical Greek & Roman history (Greece a bit more than Rome)
Mainly I love the architecture, statuary (art), ingenuity, religion, and warriors.
Spartans and Legionaries are the pinnacle of ancient European military might. Despite the fact that I would still choose be a Celto-Germanic barbarian :P

Neophyte
Sunday, November 21st, 2010, 05:08 PM
The inhabitants of Greece and Italy are not the Greeks and Romans. Centuries of mixing with slaves from Asia and Africa diluted their blood stream to the point that they became unrecognizable. Do you seriously think a bunch of 5'4'' swarthy Italians would've beaten the Gauls? I think not.

We all know what happened when Mussolini tried to invade France:

...on the Côte d'Azur the Italian invasion was held up by a French NCO and seven men. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_France)

That is why we don't talk about that part of the war, it would be too embarrassing to the Italians. :P

Caledonian
Sunday, November 21st, 2010, 05:23 PM
We all know what happened when Mussolini tried to invade France:

...on the Côte d'Azur the Italian invasion was held up by a French NCO and seven men. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_France)

That is why we don't talk about that part of the war, it would be too embarrassing to the Italians. :P

Don't forget Ethiopia. ;)

Thorwald
Sunday, June 19th, 2011, 02:14 AM
I've read a lot on Greco-Roman history and myth. It was my first love in life.

I have a lot of respect for their achievements in politics, warfare, the arts and sciences. But both groups became despotic, bureaucratic, cosmopolitan, imperial powers who eventually lost their own religions (and thus their own souls) in the multi-cultural goo they created. A warning for us all.

I also find I am a lot closer to the values of the hearth and the meadhall exhibited by the ancient Germanic tribes than the pretentious philosophy dreamed up by the Greco-Roman elite.

Valkar
Sunday, June 19th, 2011, 08:35 PM
The fact that my father is a Roman, makes my ties with the Roman culture stronger.

ThroughTheAges
Wednesday, June 22nd, 2011, 06:20 PM
Well if it wasn't for them we may not have so many overpaid sports stars, since it was the great pursuit to mimic the celebrity gladiators in the Coliseum and Olympics that created modern commercial sports. Physical activity is good, but spectator sports and excessive worship/adoration of athletes is going overboard in today's world.

I don't think they were any more "nordic" back then than they are today. Lombards and Goths have lingering genes in Northern Italy (Fabio, Hulk Hogan/Bollea, etc), no doubt, but the sculptures of leaders like Julius Caesar look nothing like classic Nordic features. They were Caucasian and European of course, but Nordic? Hardly. We really can't tell the tone of skin or hair color from statues, so who's to say the Caesars weren't as swarthy as Sylvester Stallone or Tony Danza with black hair? Guys like this seem to be better ringers for Julius than Dolph Lundgren or Brock Lesnar.

Alexander, I think, could have been a blonde. At least that's the popular movie and painting depiction of him. He had curly hair though. Macedonians were quite a few miles north of the sea, and closer to the Black Sea where the Germanic tribes lingered for a time.

Other than that architecture styles, culture and general way of life are different. Sure they built stuff and had an orderly society, but so did the Chinese, Egyptians and Japanese. That doesn't mean they were Germanic. Once an empire falls, not only do the foreign peoples they attracted compromise the identity of the nation and empire, but there is a target on that country's back once it weakens. It's old tributaries are now the masters and will not let it rise again. That is the real reason great empires don't usually rise in the same place twice. The same will probably happen to America and Britain over time.

Notwithstanding Rome used the "Church" to rule over Europe when it found out Germans were very serious about their militaries. When the body and weapons defeats you, attack the very soul of the people. I consider my self a believer in the Christ, but Catholicism to me is an obvious ploy to fight back and hold on to the crumbs (or should I say chunks of iron) of the Roman empire. Martin Luther and Daniel in the Bible thought so too.

Longbeard
Thursday, June 23rd, 2011, 12:13 PM
In my opinion: totally overrated by the film industry and other brainwashing mechanisms like education system.

Why do I see Roman propaganda films like "The Eagle" still to this day? That movie was pitiful along with all the others like it, showing a 'disciplined and honorable' conquering force. Oh, boo hoo dying Romans, why are you even there? It reminds me of US troops today.

It all probably has something to do with the Catholic Church... All they've done is remove the indigenous religion of the Germanic man and destroy his blood. Even to the darker people's, all they've done is destroy their religions which were taught to them by the Germanic man. They've truly created chaos in this world - fear, confusion and insanity. I think Gnostic and Arian Christianity were accepted by some Germanics, but Athanasianism was definitely forced on most of them.

Whatever 'light' they theoretically brought to the world in ancient times was done by blue eyes. That is, the original founders of the Athenian philosophical society and even Rome were Germanics. As the blood became contaminated, their light was put out.

Valkar
Thursday, June 23rd, 2011, 08:59 PM
At least roman heroism is better then celtic hollywood americanism; Trying to compare woads to freedom fighters.. Or the illusion that woads had trebuchechets, longbows, merlin, and that a late roman army of 7 sarmations can defeate a saxon groop of hundred...

Yeah, right.;)

Segestan
Thursday, June 30th, 2011, 03:03 PM
The Greek and Roman histories where in many ways the result of the never -ending racial, economic and military struggles in Asia -Minor. To understand Greek-Roman history one needs to understand the loss of Asia minor to the effects of multi-culture and invading armies seeking plunder. Asia minor, was home to great indo european civilizations such as the Medes, Persians and babylonians these higher forms of civilization fell in the same manner as ancient Egypt, the use of non-white labor, immigration of Negros and Semities . The Negro and Semite was the known enemies of Egypt until over time the indo-european stocks became to weak to resist. Add the competition between white cultures for regional power and we see the rise of Ancient Greek and Roman civilization. Both Greece and the Roman empire also became weak and fell through the use and acceptance of the Negro and Semite, the Northern hives did add better stock to the gene pool but Germanic culture was centuries behind what had evolved in Asia Minor.
The story of Rome and the Greeks is long and a sad tale of reality.

Hersir
Thursday, June 30th, 2011, 05:42 PM
I have recommended a book here before, and Elessar bought it after my recommendation and liked it.

Terry Jones - Barbarians (http://www.amazon.com/Terry-Jones-Barbarians-Alternative-History/dp/056353916X)



In the Monty Python film Life of Brian, a member of the People's Front of Judea asks, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" (apart from, of course, the "sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health"). The director of that movie—and now popular historian—Jones (Who Murdered Chaucer?), along with Ereira (The People's England), now answer the question: a bit, but nowhere near as much as the barbarians did. Jones attempts to overturn the popular conception of the glorious Roman Empire, which he says is mostly propaganda, and claims that the barbarians—a general term describing the tribes of western and northern Europe, as well as of the Middle East—have for too long been slandered as "savages" by the allegedly more advanced and civilized Romans and their descendants. In fact, these assorted Celts, Vandals, Persians and Goths were technologically, economically and intellectually sophisticated, but were on the wrong side of history. While scholars will sniff at Jones's offhand humor, somewhat wide-eyed "revelations"—which have been revealed before—and tendency to believe the vastly exaggerated death tolls of the time (he relies on Plutarch's figure that Julius Caesar slaughtered a million Gauls, a virtually impossible feat), readers will go along for a most enjoyable ride and appreciate his fascinating tale of the barbarians' lost world. 24 pages of color photos, maps. (Sept. 15)

The celts had roads before romans, the celts invented the swords which the romans used etc. Also very much interesting about germanics.

There is a show too, but havnt watched it.

Ingvaeonic
Friday, July 1st, 2011, 10:11 AM
Graeco-Roman civilisation is clearly given undue stress and is somewhat overrated in the modern West, imho. But of course there are those in the modern West that still see it all with starry eyes, and who are usually Judeophiles, that say that the three ancient cornerstones that underpin modern Western civilisation are Greek, Roman, and (wait for it!) Hebrew thought. A Dutch scholar, I recall, said just that about the modern Netherlands, that it was a nation whose intellectual tradition was based on or rooted in Greek, Roman, and Hebrew thought. There must be a lot of Jews teaching and indoctrinating young Dutch folk in Dutch universities. Might be time for a purge of Dutch tertiary-level education.

Valkar
Saturday, July 2nd, 2011, 11:29 AM
Yes, i totally agree on your point. When i opend my history books this year for the first time, the first thing i noticed that the method was Jewish...
No Batavian Revolt, no Germanic Ancestry, No great migration, nothing at all about the germanics. Only Greek citizenship, how good Greek democracy was (Germanic tribal democracy was better ;)) And how the poleis workd..
I really though like: Are they trying to kill every root of our supreme nation?
The whites ruled the world for many times. Roman Times, Viking times, 100 years war, Prussia, British commonwealth.

But now, with stuff like emancipation and anti-racism, we literally kill ourselves. :|

Primus
Monday, July 4th, 2011, 12:20 PM
I have a great deal of respect for classical Greco-Roman civilization.

WorldGovernor
Tuesday, July 26th, 2011, 11:45 PM
I admire Roman imperial ambitions and order as much as I admire Nazi Germany, but I despise Greek culture as it is nothing but utter laziness. I do like the Spartan culture as did the Fuhrer, it was simple and orderly.

Elessar
Wednesday, July 27th, 2011, 12:15 AM
but I despise Greek culture as it is nothing but utter laziness.

Uhm...could you elaborate further?

Does this account for their laziness?
http://www.quesper.com/alexanderempiremap_large.jpg
http://www.crystalinks.com/byzanmap.jpg

how about this?
http://www.sacredsites.com/europe/greece/images/parthenon-500.jpg
http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/Roman%20Empire%20Images/RomanEmpire2.jpg

or perhaps it was those damn Olympics that made the Greeks into such degenerates :chinrub
http://www.studyofoahspe.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Olympic.jpg

Under what pretext do you blame them for "utter laziness"?

WorldGovernor
Wednesday, July 27th, 2011, 12:29 AM
Uhm...could you elaborate further?

Does this account for their laziness?
http://www.quesper.com/alexanderempiremap_large.jpg


Sorry I wasn't specific let me elaborate. First, by lazy Greeks I did not mean their race but rather the lazy culture that infested the warring Greek city states, and I am talking about the Pre-Macedonian culture, pre-Alexander the Great Invasions. There contempt for war etc.

Schopenhauer
Wednesday, July 27th, 2011, 12:35 AM
The West is an interesting dichotomy. Spiritually we are rooted in the Aryan Sun cult, but culturally we're steeped in Roman Civil Law and Greek philosophical inquiry.

I guess you could we are living in the best of both possible worlds.

Asagirl
Tuesday, September 27th, 2011, 06:33 AM
I look at them with high regard. Technically, Greeks/Romans were early Norse/German peoples. Look at the similarities between they're religious systems, and other such things like ideas which have revolutionized history. This just proves that great ancestors are no accident!!!

Karpaten Befreier
Sunday, November 20th, 2011, 11:49 PM
I am grateful of their culture, because they invented propaganda. What other people in history can you possibly see that down-graded others as much as these people? And these "others" and "savages" were many times, in certain areas, more advanced than the Greeks and Romans.

And their influence on history lessons in schools. You never hear about anything else (except I've had about two weeks in which we talked about Lief Eiriksson and his Vikings)! Where my brother goes to school, the history "teacher" from last year (and my grade 5 (last year) brother had more knowledge of history than her) told the class that Barbarians were mean people who stole and only cared about themselves. Other than the fact that a teacher uses such a description in historical matters is idiotic, it goes to show how much we've been spoon-fed by Greeks and Romans. If I remember well, it was the Germanic people who were high on morals and the Greeks and Romans corrupt, not the other way around.

Catterick
Wednesday, May 10th, 2017, 07:41 PM
Graeco-Roman civilisation is clearly given undue stress and is somewhat overrated in the modern West, imho. But of course there are those in the modern West that still see it all with starry eyes, and who are usually Judeophiles, that say that the three ancient cornerstones that underpin modern Western civilisation are Greek, Roman, and (wait for it!) Hebrew thought. A Dutch scholar, I recall, said just that about the modern Netherlands, that it was a nation whose intellectual tradition was based on or rooted in Greek, Roman, and Hebrew thought. There must be a lot of Jews teaching and indoctrinating young Dutch folk in Dutch universities. Might be time for a purge of Dutch tertiary-level education.

As European cultures go the Greeks and Romans were most influenced by Semitic peoples out of areal proximity: Stoicism was Semitic for example. Greek thoght however influenced the Hebrews more than the other way around. Most famously Christianity as the Hellenisation of Palestine but also certain books of the Old Testament.

The Mediterranean was to the north as China was to Japan. Though influences were strong they were refined during localisation rather than blind imitation, and do not define "who we are". Alexandrian magic replaced the runes among the learned as Classical texts moved north with Jewish scripture.

It was enough influence for indigenous elites to ligitimise themselves by appeal to Roman precedents. Much as Japanese styled themselves, to a degree, after an idealised China whilst carefully maintaining independence.

In any case the three Mediterranean influences are ultimately derivative of the Sumerians and Egyptians, and there is some evidence that Egypt was invaded early by people of Mesopotamian origin. all European peoples are mixed from three genetic stocks and the Neolithic farmers and pastoralists constitute one of them: similar people in the south founded the civilisations of the Nile, the Tigris and Euphrates, the Levant, the Agean and Italy. A common Neolithic source plus diffusion of ideas from the East.

Catterick
Wednesday, May 10th, 2017, 07:58 PM
Don't forget Ethiopia. ;)

You are presumably laughing at the Italian defeat in 19th century Ethiopia, but Ethiopia had a modern military at the time.

Catterick
Wednesday, May 10th, 2017, 08:07 PM
Had the Greeks fallen to Persia instead of vice versa Northern Europe could have been their next target, although I wouldn't be surprised if a tribal confederation could have beaten them with climate, tactics, ferocity, etc.

Like the Ottomans the Achaemenids would have become overextended had they tried. In any case Persia had stimulated early Greek thought and left an obvious mark upon the Bible. Persian civilisation was thus not that alien to modern eyes and historically historians such as Childe viewed them as more Aryan than the Greeks, partly due to accepting mythologicised histories of the Greek mainland connecting the country to settlement by the Phoenicians or perhaps the Hyksos. (My own feeling is that the historic invasions had affected Crete.)

mangog
Friday, April 13th, 2018, 02:51 PM
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/ec/14/5cec1471d8c5134f09e04b857cd06b17--roman-salute.jpg (https://www.google.it/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwid_fClsrfaAhUKzaQKHWjtDSgQjRx 6BAgAEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fma nuelperugorri%2Flegionarios-romanos%2F&psig=AOvVaw1hvp7A3HPdNFUoOvQM2DJT&ust=1523713765677163)http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/images/ArtGallery/BattlePics/2001/salute.jpg (https://www.google.it/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjixuOtsrfaAhUSzKQKHW2bB-EQjRx6BAgAEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theapricity.com%2F forum%2Fshowthread.php%3F19205-What-is-with-the-obsession-with-the-Nazi-salute&psig=AOvVaw1hvp7A3HPdNFUoOvQM2DJT&ust=1523713765677163)



I love roman salute

Aelfgar
Friday, April 13th, 2018, 10:49 PM
^ Apparently, the belief that was a Roman salute comes from a painting and there's not a lot of other evidence for it.

On the main question, yes, there's no denying the greatness and influence of Greek and Roman culture. One of my favourite historical designs is the Corinthian helmet:

https://itsallgreeklondon.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/3-bronze-corinthian-helmet.jpg

There was a similar medieval Italian helmet called a barbuta/barbute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbute

At one of my schools we had six houses with different coloured badges: Celts, Greeks, Normans, Romans, Saxons and Vikings. I was in Romans (purple badge). The sports teacher used to call the Greeks "greasy Greeks" :) That would probably land him in trouble these days.

mangog
Saturday, April 14th, 2018, 07:02 AM
^ Apparently, the belief that was a Roman salute comes from a painting and there's not a lot of other evidence for it.

On the main question, yes, there's no denying the greatness and influence of Greek and Roman culture. One of my favourite historical designs is the Corinthian helmet:

https://itsallgreeklondon.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/3-bronze-corinthian-helmet.jpg

There was a similar medieval Italian helmet called a barbuta/barbute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbute

At one of my schools we had six houses with different coloured badges: Celts, Greeks, Normans, Romans, Saxons and Vikings. I was in Romans (purple badge). The sports teacher used to call the Greeks "greasy Greeks" :) That would probably land him in trouble these days.

Salutatio imperatoria

http://www.fotografia.iccd.beniculturali.it/images/watermark/10/97468.jpg (http://www.google.it/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjW_fWNi7naAhXRmLQKHdU6DhoQjRx 6BAgAEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.it%2Furl%3Fs a%3Di%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26sour ce%3Dimages%26cd%3D%26cad%3Drja%26uact%3 D8%26ved%3D2ahUKEwjW_fWNi7naAhXRmLQKHdU6 DhoQjRx6BAgAEAU%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%2 52Fwww.fotografia.iccd.beniculturali.it% 252Findex.php%253Fr%253Dcollezioni%252Fi mmagini%2526fondo%253DGabinetto%252BFot% 2526page%253D502%26psig%3DAOvVaw3YD75mSh kKvELvSOAvUbux%26ust%3D1523771917166681&psig=AOvVaw3YD75mShkKvELvSOAvUbux&ust=1523771917166681)


De bello civili
De bello africo
De bello iudaico


Ancient Roman coin
http://storage.goline.it/542ff260b5b13/files/immagini/moneta-con-saluto-romano_5907a8b524a29.jpg (http://www.google.it/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjSreGTj7naAhVEL1AKHTiVCb4QjRx 6BAgAEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hacstat.it%2Fit&psig=AOvVaw0O_Z2Qj3eyIaEtNhkrcH6S&ust=1523773030178546)

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, April 19th, 2018, 07:25 AM
Greco-Romans were the Latin Americans of ancient Mediterranean Europe. I no more draw distinction between Mexicans and Spaniards than I do between Americans and Britons. That goes for past as well as present. Before I knew better, I stared slack-jawed at Hercules and Xena on TV, but then again, it's not like there were Thor and Sif programmes to watch. I hate Mediterranean bias because it assumes a superiority at the expense of our supposedly inferiority. I would not cry if the Arabs annihilated Mediterranean societies everywhere, if only so we could swoop in and wipe them out in turn, then take from both all that remains. Otherwise, we ought to remain aloof from Jewish Zionism, Muslim Jihad and Catholic Crusade. If they want Armageddon, so be it. That doesn't have to be our problem. I'd rather be spelunking Hindu and Buddhist caves while backpacking and hitchhiking across Asia than put up with another Mediterranean-MENA dictatorship calling the shots in Germanic society.