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Sigurd
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 12:22 AM
What is sometimes forgotten is that not all Catholic churches consider priest celibacy as mandatory (this seems to mainly be only the case with the Western, "Latin Rite"), and what is even then forgotten is that the question of mandatory or facultative celibacy for priests was discussed and brought to a vote twice with Cardinals (IIRC). Theologically, it appears not to have been mandatory before 1592 when a line in the Bible translation was apparently modified accordingly.

Inspired by a lengthier discussion on TV in the wake of the recent sex abuse scandal, the topic of celibacy was also targetted, even used as a potential issue regarding the scandal and how it could become so widespread with near exclusivity to the Catholic Church. Either way, it all raised a few questions with me over which I was curious how the preservationist part of the Catholic folk thought:

- Generally, should celibacy be mandatory or facultative for priests? Why? Why not?
- If not, should the facultativity of the practice be extended to monks/nuns/abbots, etc.? Should it be facultative to ordinary priests but mandatory for bishops (as in the Orthodox Church)?
- If yes, how would you tackle the troubles that may arise for young men aspiring to become priests knowing they must choose either marriage or celibacy?
-Do you think the current mandatory character of celibacy has a bearing at all, perhaps even on the further psycho-sexual development? If yes, could cases of sexual abuse be reduced by breaking with this tradition?

This thread is of course chiefly aimed at the opinion of the Catholic membership, however, all members, whether Catholic or non-Catholic, Christian or non-Christian are of course welcome to offer their opinion, I will of course make use of that option myself once a few have voiced their opinion. ;)

Chlodovech
Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 05:09 PM
Good topic, Sigurd.


Generally, should celibacy be mandatory or facultative for priests? Why? Why not?

A priest is married to the Church, and the Church is married to God.

Those who have chosen a life of celibacy have shown their commitment to the cause. Especially today. The job of a priest was often viewed as 'just a job like any other' in the past, a respectable job with material benefits which would ensure the livelihood of a son - it also meant a mouth less to feed for a family.

However, it's easier to create a loyal elite out of Catholics who have made a big sacrifice for their faith, Catholics who have thought long and hard about their choice.

I'm conservative in these matters, and I think celibacy should be mandatory - because the Church is fighting a permanent spiritual war against the Brotherhood of The Snake, and all energy should be directed toward the war effort, without distractions. Unmarried men and women fight harder.

As Chris Carter once said when a journalist asked him why Mulder and Scully aren't romantically involved with eachother: 'We can't have Mulder and Scully rolling over bed sheets while aliens are taking over the planet. It's inappropriate.' I'm sure the pope would understand.

And there is something intrinsically ennobling about a virginal/chastised warrior of God, there's something ennobling about being being a Parsifal.

Although in reality many priests have children (as nobody is born as a priest) - either because they're widowers who became fathers at a certain point during their life, or because they sinned against canonical law.


If not, should the facultativity of the practice be extended to monks/nuns/abbots, etc.?

No, especially not extended to those who have chosen either a secluded life or a semi-secluded one.


Should it be facultative to ordinary priests but mandatory for bishops (as in the Orthodox Church)?

That goes without saying. And a married pope is totally unthinkable to me. How would we have to call his wife? The papess? :| :-O

Like you pointed out, the current rule of cellibacy isn't set in stone and open to debate. My position on this matter is clear, yet I think it's too soon for modifications anyway. There's no need to shock an entire generation of Catholics, our grand parents, when we can bring this subject up again, twenty years from now.


Do you think the current mandatory character of celibacy has a bearing at all, perhaps even on the further psycho-sexual development? If yes, could cases of sexual abuse be reduced by breaking with this tradition?


In regard to the sex scandal I want to say this: pedophiles will be pedophiles, whether they use the cover of marriage or not. One could say that the scope of the drama is way bigger if a pedophile is married and has children.

No, I don't believe the absence of a sex life causes sexual abuse (what would that tell us about men if this assertion were true?). There are plenty of healthy, stabile blokes who don't have a sex life. You, me, and of course Stormraaf, for example. :)

Wulfhere
Tuesday, July 6th, 2010, 05:21 PM
The Oera Linda Book - which describes a Pagan matriarchal civilisation in ancient Europe - describes a celibate order of female priestesses. It is our policy to re-establish this order in Sovereign Mercia. Being female, none of the abuse scandals of the Catholic church are likely to arise.

GroeneWolf
Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, 10:14 AM
The Oera Linda Book - which describes a Pagan matriarchal civilisation in ancient Europe - describes a celibate order of female priestesses.

And is well know to be a forgery.


It is our policy to re-establish this order in Sovereign Mercia.

Small question do already training your little Mercian pope, or is just like the pictures from your daughters of Frya page taken from a certain kind of website?


Being female, none of the abuse scandals of the Catholic church are likely to arise.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/former-nun-tells-of-sex-and-suffering-inside-indian-convent-1627077.html


There were also secret homosexual relationships among the nuns and at one point she was forced into such a relationship by another nun who told her she preferred this kind of arrangement as it ruled out the possibility of pregnancy.

Wulfhere
Wednesday, July 7th, 2010, 10:50 AM
And is well know to be a forgery.



Small question do already training your little Mercian pope, or is just like the pictures from your daughters of Frya page taken from a certain kind of website?



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/former-nun-tells-of-sex-and-suffering-inside-indian-convent-1627077.html

Did you have to trawl the net until you found a convent in India, of all places, where this happened?

CharlesMartel
Wednesday, July 28th, 2010, 04:32 PM
It's a tough issue. Jesus remained celibate, and the clergy, of course, must seek to imitate Christ, as best it can. Marriage is the only acceptable alternative.

Our main problem, IMO, is that there are too many homosexuals in the priesthood. Many of them lose self-control, and sex scandals ensue. Meanwhile, if they hadn't succumbed to lust, no one would've known they were gay, and it wouldn't have mattered.

The solution remains better self-discipline. Those who can't uphold their vows should be discharged.