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Horseman
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 05:16 AM
Anyone here engage in sword play? The sword art of Master Johanne Leictanauer, Silvers' broadsword, etc.? I have been studying Sword and shield from the anonymous German 1.33 manuscript as well as the Leictanauer tradition and supplemented somewhat by the Silver/ Anglo-Scottish tradition.
I was just curious if any here were practicing European Sword arts. If so please make yourself known. :)

SpearBrave
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 05:29 AM
Yes I do study swords but not for the same reasons as you. I make them from time to time(when I get a order). I mostly like the migration period, Viking age and early Anglo Saxon pattern welded blades. To me I like to see how they were constructed and test the blades after they are finished.

I think Nordlander and others here practice with swords.

Reich des Waldes
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 06:01 AM
I am very interested in German swordsmanship, specifically the Lichtenauer and other codices such as the Wallenstein. I have looked through what material I could find so far but the drawings leave something to be desired. I have also been searching for a group that practices/teaches authentic swordsmanship in the German style. Specifically from the late middle ages through the Renaissance. In Germany there is a group that is based in Karlsruhe but has weekend seminars in other various German cities from time to time. When I leave for Germany to start my graduate program, one of the first things I plan to do is sign up for instruction.

Here is a good video that I found demonstrating numerous longsword techniques from the group based in Karlsruhe:

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As well as some Messer techniques:
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Horseman
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 05:37 PM
I'm not very familiar with German groups, although we have used some training material from a German group called Ochs. Although the primary training aids were produced/written by Christian Tobler, David Rawlings, David Lindholme and Peter Svard, The last two have some very good interpetations of Ringecks treatise.

My main area of interest is the single hand sword as opposed to the longsword, thankfully the Germans didnt leave out sword and shield work and the messer plays are applicable to my focus as well.
Another area of interest is mounted combat, we have been slowly picking apart the Talhoffer plates especially mounted grappling although admittedly we have not advanced as far as some in this feild, we still have fun with it and its a good work out:)

Schopenhauer
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 06:09 PM
It's funny, I train in a form of Japanese swordsmanship, and the kata we practice looks almost exactly the same as the ones being demonstrated in those vids from the German school. Guess good swordsmanship is truly universal.

Ocko
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 06:50 PM
I have been in a german 'Burschenschaft' and did several 'Mensuren'

Barreldriver
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 09:42 PM
I have a variety of swords and sword like items, I personally favor axes over swords though, my latest purchase was a battle ready bearded Viking axe.

[a sword being classified as something that is battle ready means that it was designed/manufactured specifically as a weapon, characteristics of a battle ready sword would include a full tang, a high carbon steel blade (stainless steel has too much chromium), secure pommel (peened pommel is most ideal for combat blades but a threaded pommel can be used and is better for changing hilts), and a sharp blade is a must in my book.]:

These are what I currently own:

Battle Ready swords:

- Confederate Army Cavalry Saber
- Roman Pugio (The Pugio is technically a dagger but mine is over sized it is in between a Lakonian and a Gladius. Windlass Steelcrafts has a habit of over sizing some of their smaller blades.)


Other battle ready weapons:

- Competition Tomahawk
- Bearded Viking Axe (this bastard is my favorite)
-Sgian Dubh


Various wallhangers/sword like objects/decorations:

Urnfield Sword
Scottish Claymore
Two Samurai Swords
Medieval Dagger


For practicing with my blades I utilize techniques I have been taught while studying oriental martial arts. I would prefer to learn actual European sword play but I am not fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to do so yet.

Horseman
Saturday, February 20th, 2010, 03:02 AM
Below are links to three albions I currently own.

My sword of choice however is a custom, Oakeshotte type XIV blade with an Oakeshotte Type III guard and Type A pommel, all of them are sharp, although I do have some trainers by Dave Rawlins for practice. Those who wish can do a web search for Oakeshottes typology of the medieval sword.



http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-viking-gaddhjalt.htm

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-norman-xas.htm


http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-reeve-x.htm

Ediruc
Sunday, February 21st, 2010, 05:08 AM
Would those techniques be close to the swordsmanship used by the crusaders?

Reich des Waldes
Sunday, February 21st, 2010, 08:46 AM
Would those techniques be close to the swordsmanship used by the crusaders?

Unlikely if you mean crusades to the middle east. The earliest Fechtbuch is after 1300; the ninth crusade taking place from 1271 to 1272. It is possible that some techniques were used by knights during the baltic crusades but that is only speculation on my part. Fechtbücher focus on the idea of "fencing", or unarmored single-combat. Most German fencing texts seem to pertain mainly to the longsword. Wikipedia offers the following commentary on the idea of armored combat:


Combat in full plate armour made use of the same weapons as Blossfechten, the longsword and dagger (possibly in special make optimized for piercing the openings in armour), but the techniques were entirely different. Attacking an opponent in plate armour offers two basic possibilities: percussive force, or penetration at joints or unprotected areas. Percussion was realized with the Mordstreich, attacks with the hilt holding the sword at the blade, and penetration into openings of the armour with the Halbschwert, which allowed stabbing attacks with increased precision. From the evidence of the Fechtbücher, most armoured fights were concluded by wrestling moves, with one combatant falling to the ground. Lying on the ground, he could then be easily killed with a stab into his visor or another opening of the armour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_swordsmanship

Due to the nature of the progression of the armor of knights, swords fell into more and more disfavor for armored combat; weapons such as the pick or mace being chosen instead. It is said that a rider at a full gallop with a flanged mace could often kill a heavily armored knight in a single blow.

Horseman
Sunday, February 21st, 2010, 05:17 PM
My own opinion is that Leichtanauer drew from earlier traditions and was simply the first to record and possibly refine these traditions. So it is quite possible these techniques were learned by earlier crusading knights .

Contrary to popular belief the sword always took a secondary role to pole arms. In Leichtanauers teaching the longsword is simply a means of teaching core principles that apply to any hand weapon of the period.

Reich des Waldes
Sunday, February 21st, 2010, 11:58 PM
My own opinion is that Leichtanauer drew from earlier traditions and was simply the first to record and possibly refine these traditions. So it is quite possible these techniques were learned by earlier crusading knights .

I agree. I did not mean to imply that the system taught in Liechtenauer's codex/Fechtbuch came from nothing. I am sure there is a mappable progression between the earliest and latest developments of swordplay if documentation from an earlier period was discovered.



In Leichtanauers teaching the longsword is simply a means of teaching core principles that apply to any hand weapon of the period.

True. A system can be modified to better fit the environment in which said system is used.