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Josef S
Tuesday, February 2nd, 2010, 10:37 PM
Personally I think that germanic is becoming pseudo-germanic much because of the influence of the american south white preservationist movements, their abuse of national socialism and their generally poor understanding of real germanic cultures like Sweden or Austria.

Instead of fighting for the roots, the core, the blood, soil and heart of the germanic race and culture, a large part of european pro-germanic movements have been turned into a sort vassals for american interests and anglo-centric post WW2 ideologies.

I'm not really happy about people in Sweden driving around with the Confederate Flag while preaching mainly american racial ideologies. The general attitude seems to be "because they had Elvis, they also have all the answers to our problems".

This serves to uproot and water down our own origins and culture. Compare swedish nationalist movements from the 1930's with those today. Back then we were world leading in racial awareness.

I just don't think that a colony with its own cultural life can hold the essence of a culture which was born on european soil, so many generations later. There's no denying that both american and australian culture has clear differences from european.

I argue that the races are the same or similar, but the cultures too far apart. This is also why I'm against the idea of a global white movement, especially if the dominating powers of such a movement are anglo-colonies and not the germanic fatherlands.

To me, it just doesn't feel right when an australian tries to speak to me about "germanic culture", sorry but that's the way I feel. If I visit Germany or Austria instead that's a totally different thing.

Japanese don't consider migrated japanese as true japanese. Italians don't consider migrated italians as true italians. In these cases it's the original culture and people doing the conducting, but in the case of germanic people we have more become ideological followers of the colonists. I think this is a very bad thing.

Méldmir
Tuesday, February 2nd, 2010, 11:14 PM
I don't see how what someone would do in Sweden, would change what people are somewhere else? Whether some Swedes follow the ideals of people in the American south, doesn't really matter.

Of course Australian and American culture is different from "European culture" for three reasons. 1. There is no universal "European culture" 2. They are mainly derived from the Anglo-Saxon cultures. 3. They have been isolated for hundreds of years, and thus have created their own cultures, different from all European cultures, including the English. Even though, especially the Australian still hold ties with its Anglo roots.

I would like to know what Swedish and Austrian culture has that Australian does not. And I'm not talking about the countries (like the soil) themselves as such, but instead the cultures and societies. I do agree that the soil itself of northern Europe is more "Germanic", since it is here Germanics are native and sprung from.

But whether colonial Germanics become different, I still consider them Germanic as long as they stay with what is the foundations of Germanic culture and morals etc. and their ancestry is Germanic.

And about the last thing, how are you so sure Japanese do not consider Japanese abroad as still being Japanese? I happen to know that there is a Korean minority living in Japan, and they have lived there a very long time (70 years), and they still se themselves as Korean and seen as foreigners by the Japanese. The mindsets of these two peoples are probably similar.

Ediruc
Wednesday, February 3rd, 2010, 12:22 AM
The problem with Germanic preservationists and their association with the CSA is that they don't know that it was originally the South who wanted the slaves, because they were a bunch of greedy landowners who put money before the good of their race, and it was Lincoln's intent to not only free the slaves, but export them back to Africa.

I really wince whenever I see a White Nationalist having affiliation with the CSA. It just shows how diluted and poorly educated our movement has become, and that we are headed for destruction, not alleviating our race's plight.

Hauke Haien
Wednesday, February 3rd, 2010, 12:35 AM
Universal tri-racism is rather popular among the English-speaking peoples, but it is not really Anglo-centric in the sense that it reinforces English identity either in England or in the settler colonies. Instead, it seeks to establish their ways of a life as standards for everyone to follow in a globally extended society, sometimes combined with a weak set of intra-social barriers of the kind that have been tried out unsuccessfully at various times in Germanic history and that have always contributed to a loss of Germanic identity.

The use of neo-NS for such purposes, or indeed for any non-German purpose, is unintended, since Nationalsocialism has been a German project rather than a randomly pan-Indo-European festival. "Aryan" was understood within the context of a putative IE homeland in Germany and/or the national mysticist notion of the German people as the true core and origin of the IE peoples. The term "Aryan" was consequently clarified and replaced in official usage beginning in 1935, first with "person of German and related blood", then shortened by decree to "German-blooded" on 26 November. The conquered Whiteling nations would either have been integrated directly (as far as the Germanic peoples were concerned) or liquidated, processed and Germanised. Meanwhile, the German interest in American social and racial issues was somewhere close to zero.

However, this lack of interest was not based on the idea of Europeanism or on the assessment of America's ability to maintain a Germanic identity.

Josef S
Wednesday, February 3rd, 2010, 04:14 AM
I don't see how what someone would do in Sweden, would change what people are somewhere else? Whether some Swedes follow the ideals of people in the American south, doesn't really matter.

Of course Australian and American culture is different from "European culture" for three reasons. 1. There is no universal "European culture" 2. They are mainly derived from the Anglo-Saxon cultures. 3. They have been isolated for hundreds of years, and thus have created their own cultures, different from all European cultures, including the English. Even though, especially the Australian still hold ties with its Anglo roots.

I would like to know what Swedish and Austrian culture has that Australian does not. And I'm not talking about the countries (like the soil) themselves as such, but instead the cultures and societies. I do agree that the soil itself of northern Europe is more "Germanic", since it is here Germanics are native and sprung from.

But whether colonial Germanics become different, I still consider them Germanic as long as they stay with what is the foundations of Germanic culture and morals etc. and their ancestry is Germanic.

And about the last thing, how are you so sure Japanese do not consider Japanese abroad as still being Japanese? I happen to know that there is a Korean minority living in Japan, and they have lived there a very long time (70 years), and they still se themselves as Korean and seen as foreigners by the Japanese. The mindsets of these two peoples are probably similar.

The thing is, americans haven't stayed with what is the foundation of germanic morals and culture. They have their own offspring culture. Where germanic people are collectivist, they are individualist etc. The US hasn't as a nation really done anything good for my own country aside from making the children more fat and ugly thanks to brilliant entrepreneurship such as McDonalds.

A relative if mine migrated to the US 40 years ago and despite her being swedish/austrian, her children are neither in terms of culture or mentality. They view their mother's home country (Sweden) as well as that of her father (Austria) as "weird". Of course they are still accepted and welcomed because of their blood, but mentally I find them very foreign and I would never allow their culture to dictate to me what is "white supremacy".

Germanic Europe have an active and ongoing, unbroken, link to the history of the nations and the people. Australia is an offspring living its own life as an independent organism. Shaping its own history. A broken link. Again, to an even higher degree than the US, it's pretty much exclusively an offspring of a very specific branch of the germanic sphere, namely the british.
Germans, swedes and brits to a degree speak the "same language" culturally, Britain and Australia in turn speak the same language, but Germany does not speak the same cultural language as Australia.

As for Japan, the government even pay 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants born as children and grandchildren of japanese colonial settlers in order for them to return to Latin America. Even 1st generation japanese who lived outside of Japan long enough to become de-japanized aren't considered as "real" japanese in many instances because they start breaking japanese social codes without even thinking about it.

Resist
Wednesday, February 3rd, 2010, 10:37 AM
I have no objection to Europeans rejecting the status of "vassals" and I very much agree that European and New World cultures differ.

However, I don't understand this kind of thinking:


To me, it just doesn't feel right when an australian tries to speak to me about "germanic culture", sorry but that's the way I feel. If I visit Germany or Austria instead that's a totally different thing.

Australian culture is not German or Austrian, that's true. Neither is it English proper. It is a culture of its own, that has developed on its own. It has its slang and local touch. But what exactly makes it non-Germanic? Being different is not enough. Germanic culture differs from country to country. Austrian culture and Swedish culture are not the same either.

What would you say about the Amish in the US? They speak a dialect, however, they are not German proper either. They have a specific touch to their culture, and unique, I would say. Are they not Germanic, and if the answer is no, what disqualifies them?

rainman
Thursday, February 4th, 2010, 05:56 PM
All roads lead to Rome. All questions of race somehow go back to "one folk, one nation, one blood". Race perhaps is a bad word to use as it refers to ancestry in common usage. maybe people are confusing ethnicity with race and maybe ethnicity is the real important thing here. one "ethnicity" needs one community, one culture and one blood. Obviously someone in sweden is not the same ethnically as someone in Germany. But they have a common root to their culture and blood. Germanic is a root- not the branch. The branch would be your ethnicity i.e. American Amish, Swedish nationalist, WASP etc.

Maybe in a million years time all these groups will be so different from each other that they will be trying to preserve their own unique species. Until then though we have the rest of humanity to worry about- while we still have some common bonds we need to unite to protect our unique folk family.

Josef S
Thursday, February 4th, 2010, 06:55 PM
I think cooperation to a certain degree is a better idea than "uniting". Creating a sort of one-voice movement which is including all germanic branches and offsprings and maybe even non-germanic europids really does serve to weaken the ethnic cultures.

The cooperation between Sweden and Germany during WW2, where Sweden provided Germany with 50% of the iron ore used by the Reich throughout the entire war, as well as SS volunteers who stayed through the battle of Berlin, with german leaders openly respecting both the kinship between swedes and germans as well as the cultural distinctions of Sweden, was a very natural and healthy cooperation. Sweden who got most of its modern language, culture and industry from Germany was just repaying what it viewed as its closest non-scandinavian relative.

It's not like that with today's global white preservationism which is very focused on former brit colonies and have all this "white nationalism", "pan aryanism" etc thinking. Not relating to these ideologies is probably impossible from an american viewpoint, because american white culture is a mix of germanic, slavic and latin with the core being british. It brings me back to the "because they had Elvis they can unite the world" thinking, which is just wrong in my oppinion. The economical position of the US, as well as its influence in popular culture, is irrelevant to the idea of germanic preservation in Europe.

The US is a mixed culture, not a true germanic culture. A white american child can be raised in a germanic country and become 100% germanic, but american culture can never be 100% germanic and being american + white doesn't equal being ethnically germanic, despite english being the official language of the US.

To other people, like the japanese, this rule about colonial multicultures is written in stone. White americans are in a way vulgarizing their own heritage the same way african-americans did with their african heritage, Shaka Zulu and whatever. Imagine a black person on Jerry Springer going on about "african values" and Shaka Zulu, it has an obvious comical aspect to it, and to be honest it's not that much different from the "white nationalism" of the US when they mention Hitler.

In Sweden and Holland, because of post WW2 relations with the US picked up while relations with Germany declined, there has been decreased ethnic awareness. It caused a loss of ethnic identity in these nations because people started identifying with a colonial nation instead of their germanic neighbours and ancestry.

I do believe that America, american whites and their nationalism included, had a negative impact on Sweden and swedish nationalism.

Bittereinder
Thursday, February 4th, 2010, 08:11 PM
The thing is, americans haven't stayed with what is the foundation of germanic morals and culture. They have their own offspring culture. Where germanic people are collectivist, they are individualist etc. The US hasn't as a nation really done anything good for my own country aside from making the children more fat and ugly thanks to brilliant entrepreneurship such as McDonalds.

Because South Africa was founded in colonial times which resulted in the development of the Afrikaner I believe this could be used as an example of an exception to the rule. Afrikaner folks nationalism had its roots in our Germanic values passed down from our predominant Dutch and German origens. Our nationalism developed independently from other Germanic peoples nationalism, and had blood and soil at its hart.

The Establishment of our folk and land perhaps did not have any far reaching implications for Sweden in particular but it allowed the Netherlands to dominate the east Indian trade route for two hundred years and in part was responsible for the massive gains made by the Dutch after the war with Spain. Our culture might be considered an "offspring culture" but the Germanic essence is hard to disprove. Swedes died for our independence from imperial Britain, and as they felt it a worthy Germanic cause I find it hard to believe otherwise.

Before February 1990 we where the last Germanic nationalist land on the face of the earth, even though English elements in South Africa enjoyed many advantages that we as the Afrikaner established they did not by default value them as the Afrikaners did. I don’t know if the Afrikaner can ever meet your criteria for a 100% Germanic people. The fact of the matter is that we as the Afrikaner are here because we furthered the goals of other Germanic peoples, are we to be cast aside as not being Germanic enough? Our culture is unique but it is based upon a collectivist approach that, to our detriment allowed Anglo-Saxons to live side by side with us even though historically there has been a definite divide. We are an independent people and that might prove to have been our biggest fault.

Vindefense
Thursday, February 4th, 2010, 09:03 PM
The US is a mixed culture, not a true germanic culture. A white american child can be raised in a germanic country and become 100% germanic, but american culture can never be 100% germanic and being american + white doesn't equal being ethnically germanic, despite english being the official language of the US.

To believe that blood some how is the only determining factor that defines a people is a grave mistake. Blood is only part of the equation, more important is spirit. Spirit is only evident in actions. There are definite qualities that define the Germanic spirit and none of them have anything to do with the desire to be led. Without these qualities the blood may as well be water, despite the form the body may display.

rainman
Thursday, February 4th, 2010, 09:59 PM
I think cooperation to a certain degree is a better idea than "uniting". Creating a sort of one-voice movement which is including all germanic branches and offsprings and maybe even non-germanic europids really does serve to weaken the ethnic cultures.


To other people, like the japanese, this rule about colonial multicultures is written in stone. White americans are in a way vulgarizing their own heritage the same way african-americans did with their african heritage, Shaka Zulu and whatever. Imagine a black person on Jerry Springer going on about "african values" and Shaka Zulu, it has an obvious comical aspect to it, and to be honest it's not that much different from the "white nationalism" of the US when they mention Hitler.

People lack roots today. They are looking for anything to identify with and anything to hold onto. I think folkism starts with the family, the local community, the local tribe and so on. But most people don't have that so they attach to nationalism and pan-Aryanism and all that.

Ward
Thursday, February 4th, 2010, 10:15 PM
I do believe that America, american whites and their nationalism included, had a negative impact on Sweden and swedish nationalism.

Such an attitude would be akin to us Americans blaming Swedes for the sinister legacy of Gunnar Myrdal on our society. If Swedish nationalists can't make any progress because they try to emulate American white nationalism, then really, whose fault is that?

The only nation in Europe that can legitimately complain about "Americanism" being forced upon them is Germany. The rest of Europe very much welcomed their "liberation."


Because South Africa was founded in colonial times which resulted in the development of the Afrikaner I believe this could be used as an example of an exception to the rule. Afrikaner folks nationalism had its roots in our Germanic values passed down from our predominant Dutch and German origens. Our nationalism developed independently from other Germanic peoples nationalism, and had blood and soil at its hart.

I've never been to South Africa, but I had an aunt and uncle who lived in South Africa, my parents have visited it several times, I've known a several people who have gone there to do consulting work, and I once had a teacher who was an Afrikaner immigrant.

From all accounts I've gathered, I believe that the Afrikaner/Boer people are the most Germanic people left on the planet in terms character and spirit. Maybe now things are changing, and they're becoming soft and "kinder and gentler" like the rest of the Germanic world, but whatever the case, I've always seen them the last bastion of traditional German hardness and fortitude.

The rest of the Germanic world has truly disgraced itself in its betrayal of the Afrikaner people.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Tuesday, September 8th, 2020, 06:03 AM
Josef S ranted about Americans on ABF too. There's no strict definition of what Germanic culture may become, depending upon the circumstances. This was true enough between his own Swedish and Austrian ancestors in the Thirty Years' War. Does he put von Wallenstein on a pedestal and more pointedly look down on his own fellow Swedes, rather than necessarily focus on America? Almost all of the current Germanic overseas communities are part of the Anglosphere. Sweden took part in this, but not so much Austria. Whose "fault" is that? Or, is it a credit to the folk successful enough to establish them? If Swedes are more into Anglo-Americana than "Wiener" culture or solutions to their problems, then so be it.