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jesusfreak
Tuesday, June 8th, 2004, 05:37 AM
Christianity, all other matter aside for now, is the firm beliefe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of Mankind. If you believe, then I look forward to seeing you around the board. If you don't, I pity you because you don't know what you are missing. If you don't know the word at all, I want to tell you about it. Please email me at warren@johnnsweb.zzn.com .t is my duty as a christian to spread the word as far and wide as I possibly can. That is all I care about. Nothing else matters. If you don't believe, I must insist that you rethink your decision not to. It will transform you and make things clearer. I promise you.

Jesus: "I am the way the truth and life."

Awar
Tuesday, June 8th, 2004, 05:46 AM
If Jesus really did exist, he had some ideals which I really do like. He also had lots of style and wisdom. Too bad his followers are such a disappointment.

How has Christianity changed your life? have you always been a Christian, or did you become one? If you had always been a Christian, on what do you base the statement that it 'changes lives' or 'makes things clearer'.

Why is Christianity so important in your life? It's obviously very important, since your only care in the world is in 'spreading the word'.
If everyone spent their whole lives in just 'spreading the word', we'd all die of hunger within a month.

Mr.T: "I am the way the truth and I don't use commas."

jesusfreak
Tuesday, June 8th, 2004, 05:52 AM
I have always believed been a believer in God, but I only really found out what it truly is to be christian, and was saved in 2002. And to me, things just make more sense and are more easily understood. And to me, it is more important me that I see more people becomming christian than money or popularity.

Awar
Tuesday, June 8th, 2004, 05:54 AM
You haven't answered most of my questions. I wonder why.

EDIT: What does that 'saved in 2002.' mean? How were you saved?

jesusfreak
Tuesday, June 8th, 2004, 06:03 AM
Saved, um....I accepted Jesus into my heart as my personal Lord and Savior basically. and what of your questions have I not answered?

Awar
Tuesday, June 8th, 2004, 04:31 PM
So, what would have happened to you, if you didn't accept Jesus into your heart?

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:07 AM
I get a free, one-way ticket to hell

Awar
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:11 AM
Do you need some ritual for a priest to perform, so you can officially become a christian, and accept Jesus into your heart?

bocian
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:15 AM
Jesusfreak, don't listen to AWAR. He's evil I tell you.

Strengthandhonour
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:25 AM
Jesusfreak, don't listen to AWAR. He's evil I tell you.
haha :D

So tell me, I am not christian. Does that mean I automatically go to hell? How about people who worship budah? do they go to hell too? atheists too? and if so, why do they go to hell? Oh man..I hope that ticket to hell is first class for me.

bocian
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:32 AM
haha :D

So tell me, I am not christian. Does that mean I automatically go to hell? How about people who worship budah? do they go to hell too? atheists too? and if so, why do they go to hell? Oh man..I hope that ticket to hell is first class for me.

I hope not.

Personally, I hate discussing Faith. Isn't the meaning of the word indictive enough? It is a matter of one's personal Faith, and shouldn't be imposed or questioned by others.

Awar
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:39 AM
I'm interested in this situation:

A person who's been a good man all his life, but not a christian, ends up on a deserted island somewhere. He's badly wounded and dying. He wants to become a christian and to accept Jesus into his heart, but there's no priest around. He dies and goes to hell.

Right?

Awar
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:43 AM
I have some sort of faith of my own. That's beside the point here.
This is religion. I want to discuss religion. :)

Strengthandhonour
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:50 AM
Yes Bocian.
The only person that can define our fate, is ourselves. We have the power to change our destiny and only we can. One can believe god is changing his fate, But is he really? or just the feeling that god is with you helping you to make it through?

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:55 AM
You don't need anyone to help you accept Jesus. You just ask him to be your personal lord and savior and he will. All you have to do is to accept him as the son of God who died on the cross for your sins. I believe that anyone who is not a christian goes to hell...but I don't know about Jews. If you do not worship the living god, I am sure you go to hell.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:57 AM
I for one, know that God is with me through the day and helps me. I did not say that God decides out lives. We are not puppets. He guides us. We make the choices. I think he works with them, but he definately knows everything.

Strengthandhonour
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:01 AM
Just a question, do you care about race at all? or are you at this forum just because of religion?

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:03 AM
Actually, I am just here for Religion. Why should I care about race. I like all races. I just don't agree with other religions.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:04 AM
I am trying to expand my religion because I care about other, and it is my duty as a christian.

Strengthandhonour
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:08 AM
What made you pick Skadi to do your "Duty as a christian"?

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:10 AM
Actually, I was looking for facts on the big bang theory, and one of the forums on this site came up. and I looked at it a little, and I took interest in the religion section, so I became a member. Yes, Wierd, I know, but the truth.

Awar
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:11 AM
You don't need anyone to help you accept Jesus. You just ask him to be your personal lord and savior and he will. All you have to do is to accept him as the son of God who died on the cross for your sins. I believe that anyone who is not a christian goes to hell...but I don't know about Jews. If you do not worship the living god, I am sure you go to hell.

So, basically, before Moses, 100% people went to hell irregardless of their good conduct through life.

Before the birth of Christ, some 99.9% of people
( 0.1% = Jews ) went to hell.

Until Christianity spread into Europe, and Islam spread to the east, some 90% of the world's population was going to hell on a regular basis. Doesn't matter how they lived their lives, they were ALL destined to go to hell. Without a chance to 'accept jesus' simply because there were no missionaries in their village, or on their island.

So, basically, priests are the most important people on earth.
It's not just your willingness to accept the religion, you also have to be contacted by your local priest, or your ass will forever boil in the inferno.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:15 AM
FOR GOD"S SAKE, NO! That was the old testimate. There was no Jesus. Then, they just had to live for God. And I don't know what happens to people who have never heard of Jesus. But if you have to oppourtunity to accept him and don't, I think you go to hell. If you don't believe in god, even though you have heard of him, I think you go to hell. I don't have all the answers.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:16 AM
Please tell me that you know the difference bitween the Old and New Testimate.

Strengthandhonour
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:18 AM
So tell me, There is many remotes areas in the world today that still haven't been colonized by the almighty army of priests fighting the forces of evil. So let's say some remote village of Central America in the jungle, with a population of 500 people. Let's say this people are very friendly and love each other and never do any wrong but there is a problem..They are not Christian.
So let's say this people are excellent people..so if they die? do they just go to hell? even if they where great people and never "converted"?

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:18 AM
correction: Do God's will and live by his laws

Awar
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:22 AM
I don't have all the answers.


I have a good suggestion for you then. Stop preaching!
How can you call anyone here an idiot for not listening to you, when you don't even know or understand your own faith/religion.

HINT: It's TESTAMENT, not testimate. Got that?

Strengthandhonour
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:28 AM
Listen, I understand why you are here. You are dedicated to your religion, and dedication is to be respected by all means. But you must understand that even through there is many christians in this forum, many people despise due to the effect it has on the white race, and I am not sure about the other people here, but I prefer my race over religion any day.
And if you don't have all the answers, then why preach? Maybe you should preach to some young children who can clearly understand your message and not find the flaws in your points.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:29 AM
So tell me, There is many remotes areas in the world today that still haven't been colonized by the almighty army of priests fighting the forces of evil. So let's say some remote village of Central America in the jungle, with a population of 500 people. Let's say this people are very friendly and love each other and never do any wrong but there is a problem..They are not Christian.
So let's say this people are excellent people..so if they die? do they just go to hell? even if they where great people and never "converted"?

I don't know what happens to people who have not heard of god or Jesus

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:32 AM
I have a good suggestion for you then. Stop preaching!
How can you call anyone here an idiot for not listening to you, when you don't even know or understand your own faith/religion.

HINT: It's TESTAMENT, not testimate. Got that?

Listen, Nobody has all the answers to Christianity or any religion. I don't care what you do with what I say. You can either accept, or blow it out ear. I don't give rip which. But I am going to keep doing what I am doing. Either read my posts or don't. If you don't like what I am saying, then don't listen to it.

Awar
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:40 AM
Listen, Nobody has all the answers to Christianity or any religion. I don't care what you do with what I say. You can either accept, or blow it out ear. I don't give rip which. But I am going to keep doing what I am doing. Either read my posts or don't. If you don't like what I am saying, then don't listen to it.

If you don't care, why do you preach then? What's your motive?
Christianity exists in total in it's holy scriptures and theology. Why don't you let an expert do the talking then, honestly, you're doing christianity a disservice.

Anyone with two brain-cells is going to ask you some questions about what you preach. About implications, rules, customs etc. So far you've proven to be quite ignorant on Christianity. That wouldn't be a problem if you hadn't chosen to be some sort of righteous missionary.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:44 AM
What is your problem? Do you simply hate me. Ok, I was kinda angy at somethin when I said I didn't care. That, I did not mean. Why do you care? You are against me anyway aren't you?

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:45 AM
I at least I am trying to do something worth while.

Awar
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:47 AM
No, I don't hate you. I just question your statements.
So far, your words haven't been convincing at all,
quite the opposite.

Telperion
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:48 AM
Listen, Nobody has all the answers to Christianity or any religion. I don't care what you do with what I say. You can either accept, or blow it out ear. I don't give rip which. But I am going to keep doing what I am doing. Either read my posts or don't. If you don't like what I am saying, then don't listen to it.
Would you care to respond to any of the Thomas Paine quotes I posted in the Big Bang thread? I am quite curious to know what your response is to them.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:53 AM
Okay, fine. Here is what I know for certain. Jesus Christ is the Son of the one living God. He died on the cross for the sins of Mankind. He is the way, the truth and the life. He bore the sins of all men for eternity in one moment in time, and in that moment was completely seperated from the lord because he held all sins from all times. I believe in him. He is my Lord and savior and guides me each day, and I should try to do his will. He will come again and construct his final kingdom when revelation comes.. That time is drawing nearer. I know that I wll be with him in heaven when I die. That is what I know for certain about Jesus. This year, I studied all year, jesus's Arrest through his ascention. I'd say I know quite a bit about Jesus's Arrest, trials, purpose, crucifixion, and ascention.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:54 AM
Hold on. Let me look at the Big BAng theory for a minute.

Milesian
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 10:05 AM
You aren't Mr Eriksson in disguise are you, Mr jesusfreak ? :D

Milesian
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 10:48 AM
So, basically, before Moses, 100% people went to hell irregardless of their good conduct through life.


In answer to that, as our "seperated brethren" has been unable to provide one ;), Christian theology believes that those who were just and lived in accordance with the Old Law (such as the prophets,etc) could not go to Heaven but were in Limbo until Jesus died on the cross, descended to Hell and took the souls of the Just with him to Heaven - as the gate of Heaven was only opened after his death and resurrection. Therefore they are in Heaven now but before Jesus had to wait on his arrival.

Of course no-one adhering to the Old Law in these times can go to Heaven as it has been rendered obsolete by the New and Everlasting Covenant and New Law (ie Christianity)

pearl
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 12:21 PM
So tell me, There is many remotes areas in the world today that still haven't been colonized by the almighty army of priests fighting the forces of evil. So let's say some remote village of Central America in the jungle, with a population of 500 people. Let's say this people are very friendly and love each other and never do any wrong but there is a problem..They are not Christian.
So let's say this people are excellent people..so if they die? do they just go to hell? even if they where great people and never "converted"?
I'm not trying to get all "preachy" and force my beliefs on anyone...nor am I going to disrespect beliefs that are contradictory to mine. To each his own, right? But to answer the above questions I am going to speak from my heart....not from extensive theological knowledge and Bible-combing answers...It is simply this: The Judeo-Christian God is one of love and peace...He gives everyone a chance to know him and choose, i.e. "free will"...For those who have never heard of Him, I don't think he would cast them into hell for not joining a religion that they know nothing about. What kind of God would He be then, right? We are all His children and I really don't feel that God would send someone to hell who knows nothing about Him...That would make no sense whatsoever.

hardcorps
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 01:02 PM
Haven't you heard? God is DEAD...



(It amuses me how people are attempting to reason with jesusfreak's inanities, not that he doesn't seem like a nice kid. I envy that sort of patience - the patience of Job! I hope something of white/European preservation sinks in while he's here - I hope he's white;) )

Milesian
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 01:19 PM
Haven't you heard? God is DEAD...

Last I heard, it was Nietzsche who was dead ;)




(It amuses me how people are attempting to reason with jesusfreak's inanities, not that he doesn't seem like a nice kid. I envy that sort of patience - the patience of Job! I hope something of white/European preservation sinks in while he's here - I hope he's white;) )

I'm not convinced that he's really sincere to be honest :)

hardcorps
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 02:15 PM
Last I heard, it was Nietzsche who was dead ;)

No, I'm not...:D

I'm not convinced that he's really sincere to be honest :)
I'll cack myself if it turns out to be one of our 'magnanimous' hosts!

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 03:47 PM
I'm not convinced that he's really sincere to be honest :)


Are you saying that I'm not sincere?

Telperion
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:07 PM
Are you saying that I'm not sincere?
I'll think you're sincere when you answer the question I asked on page 2 of this thread.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Oh, sorry. I forgot about that. hold on.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:22 PM
There is no page two of thie thread

Milesian
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:22 PM
Are you saying that I'm not sincere?

re: My previous post

I'm not convinced you are sincere :)

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:23 PM
You mean about the Thomas Paine quotes?

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:24 PM
re: My previous post

I'm not convinced you are sincere :)


Well, that's your decision. I hope I will prove to you that I am soon.

jesusfreak
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:33 PM
I'll think you're sincere when you answer the question I asked on page 2 of this thread.

If you are speaking of the Thomas Paine quotes, I find that he is most likely wrong about the prophets being musicians...What difference does it make what he said. I don't agree with hardly anything you posted from his quotes. Each man can either accept the bible as God breathed scripture and choose to live by it or he doesn't. Some of hisquotes had flaws. Some of them did not. I believe every single word in there, and nothing will change that. What he thinks is up to him.

Milesian
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 04:46 PM
Well, that's your decision. I hope I will prove to you that I am soon.

Indeed, I hope so too :thumbsup

Telperion
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 05:32 PM
If you are speaking of the Thomas Paine quotes, I find that he is most likely wrong about the prophets being musicians...What difference does it make what he said. I don't agree with hardly anything you posted from his quotes. Each man can either accept the bible as God breathed scripture and choose to live by it or he doesn't. Some of hisquotes had flaws. Some of them did not. I believe every single word in there, and nothing will change that. What he thinks is up to him.
Yes, those are the quotes I was referring to. He may or may not be right about the changing meaning of 'prophet', though that issue does raise an important point; namely, the text of the Bible (as with any other text) must be interpreted in the context of the time in which it was written, if its intended meaning is to be clear. Imposing modern meanings on an ancient text is a formula for flawed interpretation, and skewed understanding of what the text was about. That is Paine's point in those quotes.

You are of course entitled to 'believe every single word in there' (by which I assume you mean the Bible) if you wish. Whether the interpretation you place on it is consistent with whatever the authors intended is of course another question, as the example above illustrates. If someone else disagrees with your interpretation of the Bible, what is your basis for defending your interpretation over theirs, if you don't address this issue? How do you know your own interpretation isn't completely arbitrary and flawed?

Moving on, I think your statement that 'nothing will change' your (apparently) literal belief in the veracity of the Bible is something you should seriously reconsider. You haven't told me why you hardly agree with anything Paine said, apart from categorically dismissing his arguments without engaging with them at all. Since you apparently don't like Paine, I'll annoy you further by quoting him again, with regard to the origins of the Biblical text itself:


These books, beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation (which, by the by, is a book of riddles that requires a revelation to explain it), are, we are told, the word of God. It is, therefore, proper for us to know who told us so, that we may know what credit to give to the report. The answer to this question is, that nobody can tell, except that we tell one another so. The case, however, historically appears to be as follows:

When the Church Mythologists established their system, they collected all the writings they could find, and managed them as they pleased. It is a matter altogether of uncertainty to us whether such of the writings as now appear under the name of the Old and New Testament are in the same state in which those collectors say they found them, or whether they added, altered, abridged, or dressed them up.

Be this as it may, they decided by vote which of the books of the collection they had made should be the WORD OF GOD, and which should not. They rejected several; they voted others to be doubtful, such as the books called the Apocrypha; and those books which had a majority of votes, were voted to be the word of God. Had they voted otherwise, all the people, since calling themselves Christians, had believed otherwise- for the belief of the one comes from the vote of the other. Who the people were that did all this, we know nothing of; they called themselves by the general name of the Church, and this is all we know of the matter.

As we have no other external evidence or authority for believing these books to be the word of God than what I have mentioned, which is no evidence or authority at all, I come, in the next place, to examine the internal evidence contained in the books themselves. In the former part of this Essay, I have spoken of revelation; I now proceed further with that subject, for the purpose of applying it to the books in question.

Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom that thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done a thing, or seen it done, it needs no revelation to tell me I have done it, or seen it, nor to enable me to tell it, or to write it.

Revelation, therefore, cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man himself is the actor or the witness; and consequently all the historical and anecdotal parts of the Bible, which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word revelation, and, therefore, is not the word of God.

When Samson ran off with the gate-posts of Gaza, if he ever did so (and whether he did or not is nothing to us), or when he visited his Delilah, or caught his foxes, or did any thing else, what has revelation to do with these things? If they were facts, he could tell them himself, or his secretary, if he kept one, could write them, if they were worth either telling or writing; and if they were fictions, revelation could not make them true; and whether true or not, we are neither the better nor the wiser for knowing them. When we contemplate the immensity of that Being who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stories the word of God.

As to the account of the Creation, with which the Book of Genesis opens, it has all the appearance of being a tradition which the Israelites had among them before they came into Egypt; and after their departure from that country they put it at the head of their history, without telling (as it is most probable) that they did not know how they came by it. The manner in which the account opens shows it to be traditionary. It begins abruptly; it is nobody that speaks; it is nobody that hears; it is addressed to nobody; it has neither first, second, nor third person; it has every criterion of being a tradition; it has no voucher. Moses does not take it upon himself by introducing it with the formality that he uses on other occasions, such as that of saying, "The Lord spake unto Moses, saying."

Why it has been called the Mosaic account of the Creation, I am at a loss to conceive. Moses, I believe, was too good a judge of such subjects to put his name to that account. He had been educated among The Egyptians, who were a people as well skilled in science, and particularly in astronomy, as any people of their day; and the silence and caution that Moses observes in not authenticating the account, is a good negative evidence that he neither told it nor believed it The case is, that every nation of people has been world-makers, and the Israelites had as much right to set up the trade of world-making as any of the rest; and as Moses was not an Israelite, he might not choose to contradict the tradition. The account, however, is harmless; and this is more than can be said of many other parts of the Bible....[Paine then launches into his criticism of the Old Testament]

...How much or what parts of the books called the New Testament, were written by the persons whose names they bear, is what we can know nothing of...
The four books already mentioned, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are altogether anecdotal. They relate events after they had taken place. They tell what Jesus Christ did and said, and what others did and said to him; and in several instances they relate the same event differently. Revelation is necessarily out of the question with respect to those books; not only because of the disagreement of the writers, but because revelation cannot be applied to the relating of facts by the person who saw them done, nor to the relating or recording of any discourse or conversation by those who heard it. The book called the Acts of the Apostles (an anonymous work) belongs also to the anecdotal part.

All the other parts of the New Testament, except the book of enigmas called the Revelations, are a collection of letters under the name of epistles; and the forgery of letters has been such a common practice in the world, that the probability is at least equal, whether they are genuine or forged. Now, Paine may or may not be right. But why should I categorically dismiss his arguments, and accept your views? It seems to me that if you're not prepared to offer any sort of rational justification for your literal belief in (your interpretation of) the Bible, or engage with the arguments of others in any detailed way, then you won't likely persuade many people that your beliefs are true. You certainly won't persuade me.

As it is, you sound as if you subscribe to the formula attributed to Tertullian, credo quia absurdum - I believe it because it is absurd.

Taras Bulba
Wednesday, June 9th, 2004, 09:53 PM
I don't know what happens to people who have not heard of god or Jesus

IT depends on what denomination you adhere to. Much of what the Church fathers stated was that if they lived a life reasonably within the bounds of Christian morality and did not come to christ through no fault of their own(mainly they never heard of christ) than they have a chance for salvation. But ultimately the decision is God's.

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 03:27 AM
As it is, you sound as if you subscribe to the formula attributed to Tertullian, credo quia absurdum - I believe it because it is absurd.

I do not believe it because it is absurd. I believe it because it is Perfectly Logical and all with out a doubt true.

Awar
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 03:49 AM
I do not believe it because it is absurd. I believe it because it is Perfectly Logical and all with out a doubt true.

So, if it's perfectly logical, you can then prove the existence of god with hard evidence. Or can you?

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 03:54 AM
And I'm sure you can prove he does not exist, right?

Telperion
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 04:38 AM
I do not believe it because it is absurd. I believe it because it is Perfectly Logical and all with out a doubt true.
Without a doubt in your mind, because you have chosen to uncritically believe that all of it is literally true. If you delved into any of the issues touched on by Paine's book - and it is evident that you have not - you would have to come to grips with the numerous contradictions, even absurdities, that are inherent in any literal interpretation of the Biblical text, and which Paine catalogues. It is because of these contradictions and absurdities raised by a literal interpretation that it is difficult to find serious students of religion, even if they are otherwise devout, who believe in the literal truth of the Bible. What you are doing, in effect, is saying that you believe every word of it is literally true, while refusing to engage with any of the logical difficulties with this claim - and that is precisely the formula attributed to Tertullian of spurning logic and reason for unquestioning faith.

Incidentally, your claim that it is all 'perfectly logical' is a bare assertion, and you have not bothered to even attempt to support it. No one is obliged to accept your conclusions, when you don't provide any arguments in support of them.


And I'm sure you can prove he does not exist, right?
The propositions that God exists, or does not exist, are of course inherently unfalsifiable. No one can prove or disprove the existence of a postulated being that exists outside time and space, of whose existence there is no physical evidence, and for whom the absence of physical evidence (due to the postulate of not existing in the physical world) is not proof of non-existence.

You'll note that Paine accepted the existence of God as such on the basis of faith, in part because he felt that this was at least not contrary to reason. But, he rejected the elaborate doctrinal structure of Christianity (and all other organized religions) as an imposition on reason that he was not obliged to accept on faith alone. That is, he accepted the existence of God (very broadly defined) on the basis of faith becuase, as a proposition, it was at least not contrary to reason (in his view). But he would not accept the veracity of any particular religious doctrine that did contradict reason, and in his view the Christian doctrine did (for the reasons that he stated, only a handful of which are reproduced in the quotes above).

So, bear in mind that you not only need to convince people that God exists (which involves defining what you mean by God), but also that the particular religious doctrine you espouse is true, and implicitly that competing doctrines are not true. No one can accept any specific religious doctrine on blind faith, unless they refuse to use their capacity for reason (as Tertullian apparently did, and as you are doing). You certainly haven't convinced me that the religious doctrine you seem to espouse does not contradict reason, and so I am no more persuaded by your assertions than Paine would have been.

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 05:06 AM
Well, from what You've posted, I don't think paine would have been persuaded by anything such as the pharisees would not have.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 05:46 AM
Christianity is a label of association people use to assert their own beliefs on morality to gain platonic edge with others. Screw you fakes who wuss out for some attention. Christianity is your security blanket to avoid taking things seriously. Get a life and stop wasting my time adding yourself to statistical evidence on how many professed Christians there are in the world. Besides, it is plainly clear that this Jesusfreak gets his freak on about Jesus and is a complete wackjob or a blatantly false and unoriginal troll. Want a cookie? Whatever the case, it's amusing how masochistic some people can be to humiliate themselves so assuredly. My only sadism is watching you harm yourself with patently schizophrenic zeal for a figment of overblown social history.

It is the Christians folly to attach themselves to a Jew because the Greeks popularised their empire of philosophies and the Romans spread it everywhere, like an Italian chopshop...That's right, you're buying into the mob! Hahaha fools! They say you need their protection, or else! You meekishly bend to their will and suck up their egotistical pride for yourselves, weaklings! Ever wonder why the Italians are so wealthy? From the "donations" to their Philosophy Mafia! Taxed for your belief in the Jewish divine essence! You complain about the Jews because Jesus did, but he obviously hated himself. Monkey-see, monkey-doo, monkey pee all over you, SUCKER! Leper messiah, the God that failed; where is your false God now?

Dead and buried since the inception of the Roman Empire, as the Romans bragged with a dead Jew on their crucifixion. They were gloating at how successful their divide and conquer strategies worked by using Jesus as their marionette puppet-tool to dislodge Jewish solidarity after the erection of the Jupiter cult centre. Perhaps should wear a crucifixion to show how proud I am that Jesus was whacked for the Empire! I can't take credit for something I had no part in...or can I? After all, that's all the Romans ever did to anybody, which the jolly old USA is duplicating today! Judas betrayed the Jewish people, not Jesus, and helped the Romans achieve a public spectacle of a self-deluded maniac who pointed at everybody, screaming so loud and forgetting his own limits as a human, just to be put to death as the f*cking psycho he was.

Spineless from the start, sucked into the part
Circus comes to town, you play the lead clown
Please, please
Spreading his disease, living by his story
Knees, knees
Falling to your knees, suffer for his glory
You will

Time for lust, time for lie
Time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
And you'll get a better seat


Bow to Leper Messiah


Marvel at his tricks, need your Sunday fix
Blind devotion came, rotting your brain
Chain, chain
Join the endless chain, taken by his glamour
Fame, Fame
Infection is the game, stinking drunk with power
We see


Time for lust, time for lie
Time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
And you'll get a better seat


Bow to Leper Messiah


Witchery, weakening
Sees the sheep are gathering
Set the trap, hypnotise
Now you follow


Time for lust, time for lie
Time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
And you'll get a better seat


Lie







Pride you took
Pride you feel
Pride that you felt when you'd kneel

Not the word
Not the love
Not what you thought from above



It feeds
It grows
It clouds all that you will know
Deceit
Deceive
Decide just what you believe


I see faith in your eyes
Never your hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by the deepened nail


Follow the god that failed


Find your peace
Find your say
Find the smooth road in your way


Trust you gave
A child to save
Left you cold and him in grave


It feeds
It grows
It clouds all that you will know
Deceit
Deceive
Decide just what you believe


I see faith in your eyes
Never you hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by the deepened nail


Follow the god that failed


I see faith in your eyes
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by the deepened nail


Follow the god that failed


Pride you took
Pride you feel
Pride that you felt when you'd kneel


Trust you gave
A child to save
Left you cold and him in grave


I see faith in your eyes
Never you hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by deepened nail


Follow the god that failed







Choices always were a problem for you. What you need is someone strong to guide you. Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow, what you need is someone strong to use you.. like me, like me. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me .Don't judge or question.You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow. Let me lay my holy hand upon you. My Gods will becomes me. When he speaks out, he speaks through me. He has needs like I do. We both want to rape you. Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life. Open my eyes and blind me with your light and your lies.







It took so long to remember just what happened. I was so young and vestal then, you know it hurt me, but I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive even if signs seem to tell me otherwise. I've got my hands bound, my head down, my eyes closed, and my throat wide open. Do unto others what has been done to you. I'm treading water, I need to sleep a while. My lamb and martyr, you look so precious. Won't you come a bit closer, close enough so I can smell you. I need you to feel this, I can't stand to burn too long. Released in this sodomy. For one sweet moment I am whole. Do unto you now what has been done to me. You're breathing so I guess you're still alive even if signs seem to tell me otherwise. Won't you come just a bit closer, close enough so I can smell you. I need you to feel this. I need this to make me whole. There's release in this sodomy. For I am your witness that blood and flesh can be trusted. And only this one holy medium brings me piece of mind. Got your hands bound, your head down, your eyes closed. You look so precious now. I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this shit blood and cum on my hands. I've come round full circle. My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.







There's a shadow just behind me, shrouding every breath I take, making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. Waiting like a stalking butler who upon the finger rests. Murder now the path called must we just before the son has come. Jesus, won't you fucking whistle something but the past and done? Why can't we not be sober? I just want to start this over. Why can't we drink forever. I just want to start things over. I am just a worthless liar. I am just an imbecile. I will only complicate you. Trust in me and fall as well. I will find a center in you. I will chew it up and leave, I will work to elevate you just enough to bring you down. Trust me. Mother Mary won't you whisper something but what's past and done. Trust me. I want what I want.







And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........ This is necessary. It was daylight when you woke up in your ditch. You looked up at your sky then. That made blue be your color. You had your knife there with you too. When you stood up there was goo all over your clothes. Your hands were sticky. You wiped them on your grass, so now your color was green. Oh Lord, why did everything always have to keep changing like this. You were already getting nervous again. Your head hurt and it rang when you stood up. Your head was almost empty. It always hurt you when you woke up like this. You crawled up out of your ditch onto your gravel road and began to walk, waiting for the rest of your mind to come back to you. You can see the car parked far down the road and you walked toward it. "If God is our Father," you thought, "then Satan must be our cousin." Why didn't anyone else understand these important things? You got to your car and tried all the doors. They were locked. It was a red car and it was new. There was an expensive leather camera case laying on the seat. Out across your field, you could see two tiny people walking by your woods. You began to walk towards them. Now red was your color and, of course, those little people out there were yours too.







He had alot to say. He had alot of nothing to say. We'll miss him. So long. We wish you well. You told us how you weren't afraid to die. Well then, so long. Don't cry. Or feel too down. Not all martyrs see divinity. But at least you tried. Standing above the crowd he had a voice that was strong and loud. We'll miss him. Ranting and pointing his finger at everything but his heart. We'll miss him. No way to recall what it was that you had said to me, Like I care at all. So loud. You sure could yell. You took a stand on every little thing and so loud. Standing above the crowd, he had a voice so strong and loud and I swallowed his fašade cuz I'm so eager to identify with someone above the ground, someone who seemed to feel the same, someone prepared to lead the way, with someone who would die for me. Will you? Will you now? Would you die for me? Don't you fuckin' lie. Don't you step out of line. Don't you fuckin lie. You've claimed all this time that you would die for me. Why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy? You had alot to say. You had alot of nothing to say. Come down. Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr. To ascend you must die. You must be crucified for your sins and your lies. Goodbye...





you're such an inspiration for ways that i will never ever choose to be.
oh so many ways for me to show you how your savior has abandoned you.
Thank(fuck) your god.
he did this, took all you had and left you this way.
still you pray, never stray, never taste of the fruit. never thought to question why.
it's not like you killed someone.
it's not like you drove a hateful spear into his side.
praise the one who left you broken down and paralyzed.
he did it all for you.
oh so many ways for me to show you how your dogma has abandoned you.
pray to your christ, to your god.
never taste of the fruit,
never stray, never break,
never choke on a lie,
even though he's the one who did this to you
thought to question why
it's not like you killed someone.
it's not like you drove a spiteful spear into his side.
talk to jesus christ as if he knows the reasons why he
did this all to you.
he did it all for you.





Killing in the name of!Some of those that were forces are the same that burn crossesSome of those that were forces are the same that burn crossesSome of those that were forces are the same that burn crossesSome of those that were forces are the same that burn crossesHuh!Killing in the name of!Killing in the name ofAnd now you do what they told ya (11 times)But now you do what they told yaWell now you do what they told yaThose who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesYou justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesThose who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesYou justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesSome of those that were forces are the same that bore crossesSome of those that were forces are the same that bore crossesSome of those that were forces are the same that bore crossesSome of those that were forces are the same that bore crossesUggh!Killing in the name of!Killing in the name ofAnd now you do what they told ya (4 times)And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control (7 times)And now you do what they told ya!Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesYou justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesThose who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesYou justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whitesCome on!(Guitar solo: 'Yeah! Come on!')Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me (8 times building to a shout)Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me! (8 times screamed/shouted)Motherfucker!Uggh!





The world is my expenseThe cost of my desireJesus blessed me with its futureAnd I protect it with fireSo raise your fistsAnd march aroundJust dont take what you needIll jail and bury those committedAnd smother the rest in greedCrawl with me into tomorrowOr Ill drag you to your graveIm deep inside your childrenTheyll betray you in my nameHey, HeySleep now in the fireHey, HeySleep now in the fireThe lie is my expenseThe scope of my desireThe party blessed me with its futureAnd I protect it with fireI am the Nina The Pinta The Santa MariaThe noose and the rapistThe fields overseerThe agents of orangeThe priests of HiroshimaThe cost of my desireSleep now in the fireHey, HeySleep now in the fireHey, HeySleep now in the fireFor its the end of historyIts caged and frozen stillThere is no other pill to takeSo swallow the oneThat made you illThe Nina The Pinta The Santa MariaThe noose and the rapistThe fields overseerThe agents of orangeThe priests of HiroshimaThe cost of my desireSleep now in the fireYeaaaaaahSleep now in the fireSleep now in the fireSleep now in the fireSleep now in the fireMy fears hunt me downCapturing my memoriesThe frontier of lossThey try to escape across the street whereJesus stripped bareAnd raped the spirit he was supposed to nurtureIn the name of my In the name of myBorn of a broken manBut not a broken manBorn of a broken manNever a broken manBorn of a broken manBut not a broken manBorn of a broken manNever a broken manLike autumn leavesHis sense fell from himAn empty glass of himselfShattered somewhere withinHis thoughts like a hundred mothsTrapped in a lampshadeSomewhere withinTheir wings banging and burningOn through endless nightsForever awake he lies shaking and starvingPraying for someone to turn off the lightBorn of a broken manNever a broken manBorn of a broken manBut not a broken manBorn of a broken manNever a broken manBorn of a broken manBut not a broken manUh, UhFears hunt me downCapturing my memoriesThe frontier of lossThey try to escape across the street whereJesus stripped bareAnd raped the spirit he was supposed to nurtureIn the name of my In the name of myYeahBorn of a broken manBut not a broken manBorn of a broken manNever a broken manBorn of a broken manBut not a broken manBorn of a broken manNever a broken man head like a hole.god money i'll do anything for you.god money just tell me what you want me to.god money nail me up against the wall.god money don't want everything he wants it all.Bridge: no you can't take it no you can't take it no you can't take that away from me no you can't take it no you can't take it no you can't take that away from me head like a hole. black as your soul. i'd rather die than give you control. head like a hole. black as your soul. i'd rather die than give you control.Chorus: bow down before the one you serve. you're going to get what you deserve. bow down before the one you serve. you're going to get what you deserve.god money's not looking for the cure.god money's not concerned with the sick amongst the pure.god money let's go dancing on the backs of the bruised.god money's not one to chooseBridgeChorusChorusBridgeChorusyou know who you are. terrible lie.hey God, why are you doing this to me?am i not living up to what i'm supposed to be?why am i seething with this animosity?hey God, i think you owe me a great big apologyBridge: terrible lie terrible lie terrible lie terrible liehey God, i really don't know what you mean.seems like salvation comes only in our dreams.i feel my hatred grow all the more extreme.hey God, can this world really be as sad as it seemsBridgeChorus: don't take it away from me. i need someone to hold on to. don't take it away from me. i need someone to hold on tohey God, there's nothing left for me to hide.i lost my ignorance, security and pride.i'm all alone in a world you must despise.hey God, i believed that promises, your promises and liesBridgeyou made me throw it all away.my morals left to decay.how many you betray.you've taken everythingBridgemy head is filled with disease.my skin is begging you please.i'm on my hands and kneesi want so much to believe.Chorusi give you everything.my sweet everythinghey God, i really don't know who i am.in this world of piss well you've got me working so heard lately.working my hands until they bleed.if i was twice the man i could be.i'd still be half of what you needstill you lead me and i followanything you ask you know i'll do.but this one act of consecration is what i ask of youChorus: ringfinger. promise carved in stone. deeper than the sea. ringfinger. sever flesh and bone and offer it to me.you just left me nailed here.hanging like Jesus on the cross.i'll be dying for your sins.and aiding to the cause.Choruswrap my eyes in bandages.confessions i see through.i get everything i want.when i get part of you.Chorusringfinger.promise carved in stone.deeper than the sea.ringfinger.devil's flesh and bonedo something for me. There is no god up in the sky tonightNo sign of heaven anywhere in sightAll that was true is left behindOnce I could see now I am blindDon't want your dreams you try to sellThis disease I give to myselfHow does it feel? [x2]She makes it sweeter than the sunI get too tight I come undoneI bow my head to confess The temple walls are made of fleshRuns up my arms 'til I'm on trackItches my skin right off of my backI'll heal your woundsI'll set you freeI'm Jesus Christ on EcstacyHow does it feel? [x2]<whispered>I am so dirty on on the inside [x4]How does it feel? [x2]Suck [x4]<whispered>A thousand lips a thousand tonguesA thousand throats a thousand lungsA thousand ways to make it trueI want to do terrible things to you he sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to seehe tries to tell me what i put inside of mehe's got the answers to ease my curiosityhe dreamed up a god and called it christianityyour god is dead and no one caresif there is a hell i will see you therehe flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in linehe made a virus that would kill off all the swinehis perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and paindemands devotion atrocities done in his nameyour god is dead and no one caresdrowning in his own hypocrisyand if there is a hell i will see you thereburning with your god in humilitywill you die for this? you let me violate you, you let me desecrate youyou let me penetrate you, you let me complicate youhelp me i broke apart my insides, help me i've got no soul to sellhelp me the only thing that works for me, help me get away from myselfi want to fuck you like an animali want to feel you from the insidei want to fuck you like an animalmy whole existence is flawedyou get me closer to godyou can have my isolation, you can have the hate that it bringsyou can have my absence of faith, you can have my everythinghelp me tear down my reason, help me its' your sex i can smellhelp me you make me perfect, help me become somebody elsei want to fuck you like an animali want to feel you from the insidei want to fuck you like an animalmy whole existence is flawedyou get me closer to godthrough every forest, above the treeswithin my stomach, scraped off my kneesi drink the honey inside your hiveyou are the reason i stay alive CAN YOU FEEL I'M NOT LIKE YOU ANYMORE I CAN'T SEE, I CAN'T BREATHE SEE YOU QUIVER LIKE THE DOGS ON THE STREETS LOOKING DOWN ON AS I BEAT YOU "IT'S A BAD RELIGION, FROM A BROKEN NATION, IT'S A CONTRADICTION, AND I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE." WHO'S TO SAY I WON'T LIKE YOU ANYWAY TAKE A DEEP BREATH I'M ALIVE CAN YOU FEEL ME, I'M ALIVE INSIDE OF YOU AGONY CREEPS UP BEHIND YOU... "IT'S A BAD RELIGION, FROM A BROKEN NATION, IT'S A CONTRADICTION, AND I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY FUCKING WAY!" CAN YOU FEEL IT? I GOTTA LIVE WITH IT EVERY DAY. I CAN'T TAKE THE PRESSURE, I'M GOING INSANE. NOW GO AWAY! I want to fly into your sun
Need faith to make me numb
Live like a teenage christ
Im a saint, got a date with suicide

Oh Mary, Mary
To be this young is oh so scary
Mary, Mary
To be this young im oh so scared
I wanna live, I wanna love
But its a long hard road, out of hell
I wanna live, I wanna love
But its a long hard road, out of hell

You never said forever, could ever hurt like this
You never said forever, could ever hurt like this

Spin my way out of hell, theres nothing left this soul to sell


Live fast and die you too
How many times to do this for you?
How many times to do this for you?

Mary, Mary
To be this young im oh so scared
I wanna live, I wanna love
But its a long hard road, out of hell
I wanna live, I wanna love
But its a long hard road, out of hell

You never said forever, could ever hurt like this
You never said forever, could ever hurt like this

I wanna live, I wanna love
But its a long hard road, out of hell

Long hard road, out of hell

I wanna live, I wanna love
But its a long hard road, out of hell Sell my soul for anything, anything but you
Sell my soul for anything, anything but you

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 05:56 AM
ooookkkkaaayyy...Issues. Was that supposed to affect me in any way?

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 05:57 AM
burn the witches, burn the witches, don't take time to sew your stitches
burn the witches, burn the witches
good is the thing that you favor, evil is your sour flavor
you cannot sedate all the things you hate
burn the bridges, burn the bridges, don't take time to sew your stitches
burn the bridges, burn the bridges
good is the thing that you favor, evil is your sour flavor
i don't need your hate, i decide my fate
you cannot sedate all the things you hate

Hey. Mr. Superstar:
"I'll do anyhting for you"
"I'm your number one fan"
hey mr. porno star, I, I, I, I want you
hey mr. sickly star,
I want to get sick from you
hey mr. fallen star,
don't you know I worship you?
hey mr. big rock star,
"I wanna grow up just like you"
I know that I can turn you on
I wish I could just turn you off
I never wanted this
hey mr. superhate,
I just want to love you
hey, hey, hey mr. superfuck,
I wanna go down on you
hey mr. supergod,
will you answer my prayers?
hey, hey, hey mr. superman,
I want to be your little girl

(chorus)

hey mr. superstar,
I'll kill myself for you
hey mr. superstar,
I'll kill you if I can't have you
superstar, superfuck baby...

he is the angel with the scabbed wings
hard-drug face, want to powder his nose
he will deflower the freshest crop
dry up all the wombswith his rock and roll sores
dead
is what he is, he does what he please
the things that he has you'll never want to see
what you're never gonna be now
sketch a little keyholefor looking-glass people
you don't want to be him
you only want to see him
mommy's got a scarecrow, gotta let the corn grow
man can't always reap what he sow
"he is the maker"
(he is the taker)
"he is the saviour"
(he is the raper)

(verse 2)

(chorus)

Get back you're never gonna leave him
get back you're always gonna please him

you built me up with your wishing hell
I didn't have to sell you
you threw your money in the pissing well
you do just what they tell you
REPENT, that's what I'm talking about
i shed the skin to feed the fake
REPENT, that's what I'm talking about
whose mistake am i anyway?
Cut the head off
Grows back hard
I am the hydra
now you'll see your star
prick your finger it is done
the moon has now eclipsed the sun
the angel has spread its wings
the time has come for bitter things
(chorus)

the time has come it is quite clear
our antichrist
is almost here...
it is done

your world is an ashtray
we burn and coil like cigarettes
the more you cry your ashes turn to mud
it's the nature of the leeches, the virgin's
feeling cheated
you've only spent a second of your life
my world is unaffected, there is an exit here
I say it is and then it's true,
there is a dream inside a dream,
I'm wide awake the more I sleep
you'll understand when I'm dead
I went to god just to see, and I was looking at me
saw heaven and hell were lies
when I'm god everybody dies
scar/can you feel my power?
shoot here and the world gets smaller
scar/scar/can you feel my power?
one shot and the world gets smaller
let's jump upon the sharp swords
and cut away our smiles
without the threat of death
there's no reason to live at all
my world is unaffected, there is an exit here
I say it is and then it's true,
there is a dream inside a dream,
I'm wide awake the more I sleep
you'll understand when I'm dead

(bridge)

(chorus)

"each thing i show you is a piece of my death"
shoot shoot shoot motherfucker
no salvation, no forgiveness
"this is beyond your experience"
forgiveness...

dear god do you want to tear your knuckles down, and hold yourself
dear god can you climb up that tree, meat in the shape of a 't'
dear god the paper says you were the king in the black limousine
dear john and all the king's men can't put you head together again


before the bullets, before the flies
before authorities take out my eyes
the only smiling are you dolls that i made
but you are plastic and so are your brains

dear god the sky is as blue as a gunshot wound
dear god if you were alive you know we'd kill you before the bullets, before the flies
before authorities take out my eyes
the only smiling are you dolls that i made
but you are plastic and so are your brains

there was christ in the metal shell, there was blood on the pavement
the camera will make you god, that's how jack became sainted
if you die when there's no one watching, and your ratings drop and you're forgotten
if they kill you on their tv, you're a martyr and a lamb of god
nothing's going to change, nothing's going to change the world


there was lennon and a happy gun, there were words on the pavement
we were looking for the lamb of god, we were looking for mark david
if you die when there's no one watching, and your ratings drop and you're forgotten
if they kill you on their tv, you're a martyr and a lamb of god

nothing's going to change the world, nothing's going to change
nothing's going to change the world, nothing's going to change
the world

it took three days for him to die, the born again could buy the serial rights
lamb of god have mercy on us, lamb of god won't you grant us

nothing's going to change the world, nothing's going to change
nothing's going to change the world, nothing's going to change
the world if you die when there's no one watching, and your ratings drop and you're forgotten
if they kill you on their tv, you're a martyr and a lamb of god
nothing's going to change the world

I'M A CARNAL, ORGANIC ANAGRAM. HUMAN FLESH INSTEAD OF WRITTEN LETTERS.
I REARRANGE MY PATHETIC TISSUE. I INCISE. I REPLACE. I'M REFORMED.
I ERADICATE THE FAKE PRE-PRESENT ME. ELEVATE ME TO A HIGHER HUMAN FORM.
THE CHARACTERS I AM, MADE INTO A WORD COMPLETE, THEN I'LL BE THE NEW NORM.

SELF INFLICTED FRACTURES. I REPLACE MY BONES WITH BARS;
ALUMINUM BLEEDING OXIDE; THE DRUG OF GODS INTO MY POUNDING VEINS

(A HUMAN PUZZLE FOR ALL TO SCORN. NO FACE. NO BACK. DIRECTIONLESS.
MY SCARRED EDITION I'LL DISPLAY; THE ORGANIC WORD FOR NOTHINGNESS)

MY RECEIVING EYES EXCHANGED WITH FUSES; BLINDNESS INDUCED TO PREVENT DESTRUCTION.
CERAMIC BLADES IMPLANTED PAST MY RIBS TO SAVE ME FROM THE DUES OF INHALATION.
I TEAR MY WORLDLY USELESS SKIN. STAPLES TO PIN IT OVER MY EARS.
NON-RECEPTIVE OF UNGODLY SOUNDS - I DISABLE THE AUDIO-GENERATORS OF FEAR.

HEXAGONAL BOLTS TO FILL MY MOUTH, SHARPENED TO DEPLETE THE CREATOR OF ALL VIOLENCE;
WITHOUT SPEECH THERE WILL BE NO DECEIT

(MY FEET I CRUSH. THE FLESH I CUT AWAY, SO AS TO NOT PRODUCE THE SOUND OF THEIR PRESENCE ON ROTTEN GROUND)

BAPTIZED IN VITRIOLIC ACID. A FINAL TOUCH. A SMOOTHING OF FEATURES.
COMPLETION OF THE GREATEST ART; TO CAST THE GODLY CREATURES.
HUMANS, ONCE ASTRAY; MADE DIVINE. STRIPPED OF CONGENITAL FLAWS.
WE'RE INCANDESCENT REVELATIONS IN A WORLD OF DARKENED FORMS.

(CONFIDE IN MY NEW AGE DOGMA. SWALLOW THE INDOCTRINATION. YOU'LL COME TO LOVE IT HERE,
THE SUICIDAL ATMOSPHERE. LET ME INTO YOUR COMMON MIND. I'LL PLANT MY THOUGHTS INTO ITS SOIL.
WALK AMONG US SELF-MADE GODS, DEIFIED THROUGH THE PAINS OF SELF TORTURE)

DISCIPLES, COME JOIN WITH ME TO SAVE A FAILED HUMANITY. FOLLOW THE GOD OF CYANIDE INTO THE NEW ETERNITY.
BEHOLD; A SACRIFICIAL RASE A CLEANSING WORSHIPPING OF PAIN.
THE NEW MILLENIUM CHRIST HERE TO REDEEM ALL FROM LIES

(I'VE COME TO SAVE YOU ALL. I'VE COME TO LIGHT YOUR WAY)

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 05:58 AM
Garbage. That was a complete waste of time on your part. Completely pointless. I have never heard anyone dis Christianity with such passion as you have. Bravo, now what do you expect me to do? simply give up on my religion or something?

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 05:59 AM
ooookkkkaaayyy...Issues. Was that supposed to affect me in any way?
Emotional little boy. Wake the f*ck up! Why not jump into traffic and pray to Jesus for your saving! Immortal in your mind, your god is your manifested projected ideals. God exists so long as you believe it so, twerp.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:01 AM
Garbage. That was a complete waste of time on your part. Completely pointless. I have never heard anyone dis Christianity with such passion as you have. Bravo, now what do you expect me to do? simply give up on my religion or something?
Wear your little Christian suit and prance around like a pansy fag! I'll laugh while you do your little dance and see you live in infamy. What a f*cking trip!

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:01 AM
You put a lot of effort into that didn't you. what do you hope to accomplish?

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:02 AM
What do you think christianity is? What makes you hate christianity with such passion?

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:05 AM
Or is it that you fear it?

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:08 AM
Do you have any more pointless songs you would like to post?

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:11 AM
If you truly believe it is the best for you, I hope you are placed in a madhouse. Yes, imprisoned for your beliefs, so that you may not harm a child with your pathetic, twisted soul. Obviously, you hadn't read any but the first few lines of my writings, so I infer that you have done the same with the Bible.

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:17 AM
what is Vanadis?

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:35 AM
what is Vanadis?Your arrogant ignorance is telling. I will not suffer your buffoonery lest I be disgusted much more. Good bye.

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 06:36 AM
whatever, bye

tasmanik
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 07:35 AM
If you are such a good Christian can you tell me why do you use the name of our Lord in vain, and if you love Jesus so much why do you put the word freak besides his name?

jesusfreak
Thursday, June 10th, 2004, 03:51 PM
??? Have you ever heard of the book Jesusfreaks? It is just a name that is supposed to show that I believe in Jesus. It is not meant to insult him.

tasmanik
Saturday, June 12th, 2004, 02:55 PM
The only good book is the Bible.The only truth is in it.Everything that was written later is somebody's interpretation of it and maybe false. Respect the ten commandments!

jesusfreak
Wednesday, July 7th, 2004, 01:31 AM
.........Jesusfreaks is a book that tells the story of a whole bunch of marters.

Awar
Wednesday, July 7th, 2004, 01:41 AM
Marters huh? Are there any old testimates there?
Perhaps a comodment or two, some xalms? :D

Do you have a book with St.Josseypusses cronkles?

Anyway, what do you think about the holly wow of sallybassy?

:rotfl

bocian
Wednesday, July 7th, 2004, 01:43 AM
Marters huh? Are there any old testimates there?
Perhaps a comodment or two, some xalms? :D

Do you have a book with St.Josseypusses cronkles?

Anyway, what do you think about the holly wow of sallybassy?

:rotfl

I hate you. :jk

JJ Diamond
Monday, August 8th, 2005, 01:49 AM
LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER


THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE
YOU NEED A FRESH START
ASK JESUS TO COME INTO
YOUR HEART.

YOUR LIFE WILL CHANGE
DAY AFTER DAY
SO THANK THE LORD
FOR SHOWING YOU THE WAY.

BELIEVE IN JESUS, HE DIED FOR YOU
SEEK HIS WORD, YOU'LL FIND
THAT IT'S TRUE

STAY CLOSE WITH GOD FOR
THE END IS NEAR
AND YOU WILL LIVE FOREVER
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR.

Dear Jesus Freak thats my version of Christianity, pass it on Brother.:)

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, May 27th, 2018, 09:54 PM
Wow. I've changed so much since then. I stopped trolling Evangelical Christians after I witnessed people do it professionally on the Bolt.com Christianity message board. They had their own separate boards for Atheism and Wicca, but for all their drivel about persecution, I only witnessed their own bullying. I lost interest in lyrics from Black metal and Death metal around that time, realizing that choosing the Left Hand Path only made them hypocrites trying to shout down even louder with their own retardisms. I consequently found a peaceful medium between paganism and Christianity. I myself am happy with both.