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Ćmeric
Wednesday, November 18th, 2009, 01:44 AM
The 100 most common surnames in England (http://genealogy.about.com/od/surname_meaning/a/english.htm), though the source describes them as the most common English surnames. But Patel (24), Khan (64), Singh (70), Begum (71), Ali (80) & Hussain (82), aren't even European let alone English. The following names appear to be Welsh: Jones (2), Williams (3), Davies (6), Evans (7), Morgan (39), Davis (45), Price (47), Griffiths (50), Powell (75), Owen (85), Lloyd (91). Kelly (52) & Murphy (60) are Irish. Campbell (83) & Murray (98) are Scottish.

ReinekeFuchs
Wednesday, November 18th, 2009, 05:56 AM
The 100 most common surnames in England (http://genealogy.about.com/od/surname_meaning/a/english.htm), though the source describes them as the most common English surnames. But Patel (24), Khan (64), Singh (70), Begum (71), Ali (80) & Hussain (82), aren't even European let alone English. The following names appear to be Welsh: Jones (2), Williams (3), Davies (6), Evans (7), Morgan (39), Davis (45), Price (47), Griffiths (50), Powell (75), Owen (85), Lloyd (91). Kelly (52) & Murphy (60) are Irish. Campbell (83) & Murray (98) are Scottish.

That merely signifies that the English have traditionally depended on others economically, rather than themselves. The cost for this is necessarily approximated in future representative population.

Hamar Fox
Wednesday, November 18th, 2009, 08:42 AM
The 100 most common surnames in England (http://genealogy.about.com/od/surname_meaning/a/english.htm), though the source describes them as the most common English surnames. But Patel (24), Khan (64), Singh (70), Begum (71), Ali (80) & Hussain (82), aren't even European let alone English. The following names appear to be Welsh: Jones (2), Williams (3), Davies (6), Evans (7), Morgan (39), Davis (45), Price (47), Griffiths (50), Powell (75), Owen (85), Lloyd (91). Kelly (52) & Murphy (60) are Irish. Campbell (83) & Murray (98) are Scottish.

The problem with British names is that many of them have more than one origin. Davis and Williams aren't even predominantly, much less exclusively Welsh. Jones, Davies and Price, though more common in Wales, also have English origins in many cases.

The main reason Muslim/Indian and Welsh names rank so high is that both groups simply have less variety in their names than the English. Probably 50% of Welsh are called Jones, Evans or Morgan, which explains why Welsh names are higher than Irish, even though Irish heritage is more common in England.

Most English are realistically going to have small amounts of other British nationalities in their ancestry. In some places (London and Lancashire) it's significantly more than the national average. But elsewhere, it's not overwhelmingly high.

Here are all the names in my ancestry:

Allen -- English
Barber -- English
Bates -- English
Boothroide -- English, Yorkshire
Borrett -- English, Norfolk
Bramah -- English, Yorkshire
Brooke -- English, Yorkshire
Brotherton -- English, Yorkshire
Bucktrout -- English, Yorkshire
Butler -- English
Clayton -- English, Yorkshire
Davis -- English
Day -- English
Denton -- English
Dibb -- English, Yorkshire
Fox -- English
Ganly -- Irish
Gledhill -- English, Yorkshire
Grave -- English
Griffiths -- Welsh
Hall -- English
Handley -- English
Hardy -- English
Hart -- English
Holmes -- English
Hopwood -- English, Lancashire
Illingsworth -- English, Yorkshire
Keighley -- English, Yorkshire
Lancaster -- English, Lancashire
Langster -- English
Leach -- English
Long -- English
Lyon -- English
Marsden -- English, Yorkshire
Peace -- English, Yorkshire
Potter -- English
Prince -- English
Pryer -- English
Sutton -- English
Ray -- English
Renor -- English
Reynolds -- English
Robinson -- English, Yorkshire
Sanderson -- English
Saville -- English, Yorkshire
Simpson -- English
Scott -- Northern English/Scottish
Shooter -- English, Yorkshire
Smith -- English
Spivey -- English, Yorkshire
Spurling -- English, Norfolk
Stephenson -- English
Stoddart -- English, Northumbria
Stones -- English
Terry -- English
Tiernan -- Irish
Tingle -- English, Yorkshire
Trever -- Not sure, maybe Welsh
Turner -- English
Wild -- English
Willis -- English


*The two Irish names came by way of my Irish great-grandmother. The two Welsh names just popped up, but their bearers weren't Welsh-born.

I don't think I'm unrepresentative. I'd say foreign ancestry is lower in the English than most other european nations, and when it exists, it's almost always from other Britons and therefore no big deal.

Méldmir
Wednesday, November 18th, 2009, 11:27 AM
I read that Davis is English and Davies is Welsh. It seems odd that so many people in England would have Welsh surnames, considering the massive difference of the two nations' populations. Or maybe most Welsh moved to England at some point?

Way of Deception
Friday, November 20th, 2009, 11:30 PM
I read that Davis is English and Davies is Welsh. It seems odd that so many people in England would have Welsh surnames, considering the massive difference of the two nations' populations. Or maybe most Welsh moved to England at some point?

Yup, I think you're right on the Davis/Davies split.

Indeed a lot of Welsh people migrated to England. Many families who have been in England several generations but can trace their ancestry back to Wales tend to dislike the English sadly. This can be particularly prevalent during rugby games...

The Welsh rugby team tends to have a lot of players with the surnames - Thomas, Roberts, Edwards, Hughes, Lewis, Ellis, Jenkins.

So I'm not sure if those are English names either. It's uncertain where some of these names have originated though.

I'm surprised there's no McDonald, McAllister McSomething type name.

Witta
Sunday, April 4th, 2010, 04:40 PM
That merely signifies that the English have traditionally depended on others economically, rather than themselves.

It signifies the opposite doesn't it, that immigrants have come to England for financial reasons.

Wurfaxt
Sunday, April 4th, 2010, 05:19 PM
Wikipedia

List of most common surnames in:

England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_Europe#E ngland)

Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_Europe#W ales)

Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_Europe#S cotland)

Northern Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_Europe#N orthern_Ireland)

Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_Europe)

Hamar Fox
Sunday, April 4th, 2010, 05:22 PM
The Welsh rugby team tends to have a lot of players with the surnames - Thomas, Roberts, Edwards, Hughes, Lewis, Ellis, Jenkins.




I can't access the site I used to use as a point of reference anymore, but when I could, it allowed me to view the geographical distribution of surnames in 1891 (generally, the older the census you use, the closer the name clusters around its point of origin), and also view the place of birth of each person with that name for each county.

Roberts is definitely English. I found Roberts was more common in England than in Wales in 1891, and the vast majority of people with that name in Yorkshire (which is the only county I researched in detail) were Yorkshire-born, whereas the vast majority of Evans's, for example, were Welsh-born. If both were Welsh names, there should be roughly equal ratios of Welsh to English bearers within a given county for each name. Also, Roberts was one of the most common names in my school, even rivaling bona fide Yorkshire names like Firth and Whittaker. Jones was nowhere near.

More Hughes in Yorkshire were Irish-born than Welsh-born, according to the 1891 census, despite its being a Welsh name. Collins is Irish. I'm fairly sure I remember Ellis being English. Thomas is definitely Welsh. Lewis, Edwards, Richards, Charles etc. I think can be either. If those names are unusual in your county, then you're probably as likely to trace them to a Welsh ancestor as to an English ancestor from a county where the name is more common.

When researching names, it's important to put your own work in too. Most genealogical sites (at least the free ones) are generally very lazy and often inaccurately report the origin of a name, or only partially report it. Most sites will tell you, for example, that Simpson is a Scottish name, when the fact is it's both a Scottish AND Northern English name, and most Northern English Simpsons aren't of direct Scottish descent at all. They'll also usually tell you a name is from X if it fits a common pattern common to X (like 'given name' + 's' naturally being assumed to be Welsh) even if it's not necessarily true.

Axewolf
Monday, April 5th, 2010, 02:21 AM
The problem with British names is that many of them have more than one origin. Davis and Williams aren't even predominantly, much less exclusively Welsh. Jones, Davies and Price, though more common in Wales, also have English origins in many cases.

The main reason Muslim/Indian and Welsh names rank so high is that both groups simply have less variety in their names than the English. Probably 50% of Welsh are called Jones, Evans or Morgan, which explains why Welsh names are higher than Irish, even though Irish heritage is more common in England.

Most English are realistically going to have small amounts of other British nationalities in their ancestry. In some places (London and Lancashire) it's significantly more than the national average. But elsewhere, it's not overwhelmingly high.

Here are all the names in my ancestry:

Allen -- English
Barber -- English
Bates -- English
Boothroide -- English, Yorkshire
Borrett -- English, Norfolk
Bramah -- English, Yorkshire
Brooke -- English, Yorkshire
Brotherton -- English, Yorkshire
Bucktrout -- English, Yorkshire
Butler -- English
Clayton -- English, Yorkshire
Davis -- English
Day -- English
Denton -- English
Dibb -- English, Yorkshire
Fox -- English
Ganly -- Irish
Gledhill -- English, Yorkshire
Grave -- English
Griffiths -- Welsh
Hall -- English
Handley -- English
Hardy -- English
Hart -- English
Holmes -- English
Hopwood -- English, Lancashire
Illingsworth -- English, Yorkshire
Keighley -- English, Yorkshire
Lancaster -- English, Lancashire
Langster -- English
Leach -- English
Long -- English
Lyon -- English
Marsden -- English, Yorkshire
Peace -- English, Yorkshire
Potter -- English
Prince -- English
Pryer -- English
Sutton -- English
Ray -- English
Renor -- English
Reynolds -- English
Robinson -- English, Yorkshire
Sanderson -- English
Saville -- English, Yorkshire
Simpson -- English
Scott -- Northern English/Scottish
Shooter -- English, Yorkshire
Smith -- English
Spivey -- English, Yorkshire
Spurling -- English, Norfolk
Stephenson -- English
Stoddart -- English, Northumbria
Stones -- English
Terry -- English
Tiernan -- Irish
Tingle -- English, Yorkshire
Trever -- Not sure, maybe Welsh
Turner -- English
Wild -- English
Willis -- English


*The two Irish names came by way of my Irish great-grandmother. The two Welsh names just popped up, but their bearers weren't Welsh-born.

I don't think I'm unrepresentative. I'd say foreign ancestry is lower in the English than most other european nations, and when it exists, it's almost always from other Britons and therefore no big deal.

This source believes the surname "Trever" is either Cornish or Welsh therefore you are pretty much correct: http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Trever