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View Full Version : AK-47 Vs. AR-15 Vs. Mosin-Nagant... Which is Best?



Zimobog
Saturday, October 10th, 2009, 10:00 PM
AK-47: It works though you have never cleaned it. Ever.
AR-15: You have $9 per ounce special non-detergent synthetic Teflon
infused oil for cleaning.
Mosin-Nagant: It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.

AK-47: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from inside.
AR-15: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from 600 meters.
Mosin-Nagant: You can hit the barn from two miles away.

AK-47: Cheap mags are fun to buy.
AR-15: Cheap mags melt.
Mosin-Nagant: What's a mag?

AK-47: Your safety can be heard from 300 meters away.
AR-15 You can silently flip off the safety with your finger on the
trigger.
Mosin-Nagant: What's a safety?

AK-47: Your rifle comes with a cheap nylon sling.
AR-15: Your rifle has a 9-point stealth tactical suspension system.
Mosin-Nagant: Your rifle has a dog collar.

AK: Your bayonet makes a good wire cutter.
AR-15: Your bayonet is actually a pretty good steak knife.
Mosin-Nagant: Your bayonet is longer than your leg.

AK-47: You can put a .30" hole through 12" of oak.
AR-15: You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 10
rounds.
Mosin-Nagant: You knock down everyone else's target with the shock
wave of your bullet going downrange.

AK-47: When out of ammo, your rifle will nominally pass as a club.
AR-15: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat.
Mosin-Nagant: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club,
pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

AK-47: Recoil is manageable, even fun.
AR-15: What's a recoil?
Mosin-Nagant: Recoil is often used to fix shoulders dislocated by the
previous shot.

AK-47: Your sight adjustment goes to 10, and you've never bothered
moving it.
AR-15: Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of
angle.
Mosin-Nagant: Your sight adjustment goes to 2000 meters, and you've
actually tried it.

AK-47: Your rifle can be used by any two-bit nation's most illiterate
conscripts to fight elite forces worldwide.
AR-15: Your rifle is used by elite forces worldwide to fight two-bit
nations' most illiterate conscripts.
Mosin-Nagant: Your rifle has fought against itself - and won every
time.

AK-47: Your rifle won some revolutions.
AR-15: Your rifle drove Saddam out of Kuwait.
Mosin-Nagant: Your rifle won a pole vault event.

AK-47: You paid $330.
AR-15: You paid $900.
Mosin-Nagant: You paid $59.95.

AK-47: You buy cheap ammo by the case.
AR-15: You lovingly reload precision crafted rounds one by one.
Mosin-Nagant: You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and
it works just fine.

AK-47: You can intimidate your foe with the bayonet mounted.
AR-15: Your foes laugh when you mount your bayonet.
Mosin-Nagant: You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the stream
without leaving the comfort of your hole.

AK-47: Any fool can be taught to field strip it.
AR-15: Anyone with an IQ over 160 can be taught to field strip it.
Mosin-Nagant: What's field stripping?

AK-47: Service life, 50 years.
AR-15: Service life, 40 years.
Mosin-Nagant: Service life, 101 years, and counting.

AK-47: It's easier to buy a new rifle when you want to change
cartridge
sizes.
AR-15: You can change cartridge sizes with the push of a couple of
pins
and a new upper.
Mosin-Nagant: You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of
his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54 R.

AK-47: You can repair your rifle with a big hammer and a swift kick.
AR-15: You can repair your rifle by taking it to a certified gunsmith,
if it's under warranty!
Mosin-Nagant: If your rifle breaks, you pick up another one.

AK-47: You consider it a badge of honor when you get your handguards
to
burst into flames.
AR-15: You consider it a badge of honor when you shoot a sub-MOA 5
shot
group.
Mosin-Nagant: You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds
without the aid of a 2x4.

AK-47: You can accessorize you rifle with a new muzzle brake or a nice
stock set.
AR-15: Your rifle's accessories are eight times more valuable than
your
rifle.
Mosin-Nagant: Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny
lid, but it's buried under an apartment building somewhere in
Budapest.

AK-47: Your rifle's finish is varnish and paint.
AR-15: Your rifle's finish is Teflon and high-tech polymers.
Mosin-Nagant: Your rifle's finish is low-grade shellac, cosmoline, and
Olga's toe nails.

AK-47: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for a stiff
shot of vodka.
AR-15: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for hot dogs
and apple pie.
Mosin-Nagant: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for
shishkabob.

AK-47: After a long day the range, you relax by watching Red Dawn.
AR-15: After a long day at the range, you relax by watching Black Hawk
Down.
Mosin-Nagant: After a long day at the range, you relax by visiting the
chiropractor.

AK-47: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to hold your
rifle over your head and shout "Wolverines!
"
AR-15: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to clear
your
house, slicing the pie from room to room.
Mosin-Nagant: Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to
dig a fighting trench in the yard to sleep in.

AK-47: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Mikhail
Kalashnikov.
AR-15: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Eugene
Stoner.
Mosin-Nagant: Are there even photographs of Sergi Ivanovich Mosin and Leon Nagant?

ulfrik
Thursday, November 18th, 2010, 10:57 AM
the ak47 is more acurate than you think. they will shoot about 3 to 4 minutes of angle.

--ak47 effective range---
200yards point target.
400yards aria target.
800yards mass supression.

wittwer
Thursday, November 18th, 2010, 02:42 PM
In all fairness one ought to do a comparison between the Mosin-Nagant, AK- 47/56 (either Soviet or Chinese/liscense producers) and the M-16 A3-4 (with heavy barrel). Not the worthless, cheap civilianised AR version.

Production numbers, AK: approx. 100,000,000 at last count. M-16: approx. 10,000,000.

:)

ulfrik
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 12:18 AM
there's nothing wrong with civilian ar 15 rifles.
they have been proven well by law inforcement and cavilian shooters.

Thorolf
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 02:28 AM
Personally I prefer the AR15/m16. Yeah you have to clean it, but its accurate and i can carry twice as much ammo for the same weight. Oh and as for the mosin, who needs a mosin when you can have a k98. I have not seen a bolt action made to better quality than the Mausers.




Mosin-Nagant: What's a safety?

Someone hasn't spend much time looking over their mosin. It does have a safety.

Thorwolf
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 03:24 PM
The safety on a moisin nagant is on the back of the bolt.

My ar-15 was probably the most acurate of any asault style weapon I have ever owned. when it wasn't jamming[And yes I keep it clean] I have used every type of ammo known to man, and very acurate, but not reliable enough for me.

My AK-47 on the other hand, I have had a six inch mud plug in it, and it still funtioned flawlessly. I have fired more than 20,000 rds with no jams.And it is alot more acurate than you think! I have plugged 3'' targets at 250 meters.

for my money, I'll take the ak!

Sciuirse Morrigna
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 05:54 PM
Guys, first of all, the OP is a joke.

It's been circulating on the web for at least 4 years.
It's making fun of 3 rifles, and their idiosyncrasies, not a serious tactical dissertation.

In me experience, ARs (a quality build) are not as unreliable as the 'net would have you believe, and AKs are not as inaccurate as the 'net would have you believe.

Also, I've found Mosins in good shape will shoot as well as a Mauser in equal shape.

A lot of it comes down to preference.

I'll take a FAL or G3 over any of them.

Thorolf
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Could it be the brand of AR-15? I have heard from some people that some brands are more reliable and don't jam much. Also HK made a version of the m16 that i think is as reliable or more so than the AK. So if i had to pick from the AK family or M16 family, my preferred choice would be that HK. Though as a civilian and for cost effectiveness I have to say you cant beat the AK. I could buy about 3-4 Romanian AK's for about the same cost as one AR-15.

RoyBatty
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 06:47 PM
I did National Service with a FAL. Accurate but too big, heavy, too much recoil for my taste. Not as rugged as an AK.

For my money it has to be an AK-47. Ultra reliable, accurate enough for its intended purpose, packs enough of a punch, manageable recoil, ubiquitous, cheap, simple to operate and maintain etc.

Schaferhund
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 07:32 PM
In all fairness one ought to do a comparison between the Mosin-Nagant, AK- 47/56 (either Soviet or Chinese/liscense producers) and the M-16 A3-4 (with heavy barrel). Not the worthless, cheap civilianised AR version.

Production numbers, AK: approx. 100,000,000 at last count. M-16: approx. 10,000,000.

:)

I would agree that many of the AK knock-offs are inferrior. Not all of them though. I would bet Jim Fuller at Rifle Dynamics in Las Vegas would disagree with you.

With that said, I very much disagree with that statement about AR's. The main difference between an AR15 and an M16 is the fire-control-group; with M4 and M4 knockoffs, the difference would be the fire-control-group and the the difference in 1.5 inches in barrel length.

Technically speaking, having a 14.5-inch barrel on an M4 may allow a bit more maneuverability, but it also loses bullet velocity.

Personally, I think the M4A1 full-auto capabilty along with a civilian 16-inch barrel would be optimum; even a regular M16A3 is super in my book (A flat-top AR15A2 with a conversion would be the same darn thing). But, that like so many other AK vs. AR type debates, is my personal opinion. Many guys like SBR's just because they are restricted....I am not one of them.

Schaferhund
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 07:39 PM
Could it be the brand of AR-15? I have heard from some people that some brands are more reliable and don't jam much. Also HK made a version of the m16 that i think is as reliable or more so than the AK. So if i had to pick from the AK family or M16 family, my preferred choice would be that HK. Though as a civilian and for cost effectiveness I have to say you cant beat the AK. I could buy about 3-4 Romanian AK's for about the same cost as one AR-15.

Brand absolutely makes a difference. Some types of AR's I will not buy. I prefer Rock River Arms, Colt and Fulton myself. Other folks will buy the first franken AR that flies off the shelf (DPMS lower with a home-built A1 kit). To each their own; you get what you pay for.

Some of the newer piston-driven AR guns will fill the whole AK is more reliable issue. HK makes a good weapon. I have used their G3/HK91 and HK33 varients, in both full and semi auto modes. They are nice, but destroy the spent brass. Their newer AR types I cannot speak to.

Ruger's SR556 looks promising. Rock River is bringing out a new piston-driven AR too. This is one I will pay attention to.

Schaferhund
Friday, November 19th, 2010, 07:43 PM
the ak47 is more acurate than you think. they will shoot about 3 to 4 minutes of angle.

--ak47 effective range---
200yards point target.
400yards aria target.
800yards mass supression.

Some are super accurate, for an AK. I have one that will keep a respectable minute of torso group at 200 yards using Wolf 152 grn SP. For a good custom AK, I highly recommend Jim Fuller at Rifle Dynamics (Las Vegas, NV).

Still, the AR runs circles around the AK when accuracy is the question.

Thorwolf
Saturday, November 20th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Could it be the brand of AR-15? I have heard from some people that some brands are more reliable and don't jam much. Also HK made a version of the m16 that i think is as reliable or more so than the AK. So if i had to pick from the AK family or M16 family, my preferred choice would be that HK. Though as a civilian and for cost effectiveness I have to say you cant beat the AK. I could buy about 3-4 Romanian AK's for about the same cost as one AR-15.


I don't nessesarily beleive it's the brand, my AR was a colt h-bar a-3. one of the best you can buy! It was a neat gun, but after several jams, that was all it took to make me an ak fanatic!

I tried every kind of ammo, from black hills molly coat- to sellier and bellot- to the cheapest stuff I could find. and of course I kept the rifle clean, and lubbed!

Granraude
Monday, December 6th, 2010, 05:47 PM
I would use an AKM/AKMS. Not overly powerful, but has a bigger punch then .223, and it has managebale recoil on full-auto.

Zimobog
Monday, December 6th, 2010, 07:17 PM
AKM ammo is much cheaper here than 7.62x39 or even 5.56mm ammo. Good economy round.

I just prefer the Nagant or the Sks because their capabilities are more suited to my local terrain. With a nice forward mounted scope, a handful of stripper clips, and a comfy sling the Sks becomes one of the best infantry "scout" rifles known to man, imo. The Nagant can be a good long range shooter.

Granraude
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Are you thinking of 5.45x39 ammo? AKM uses 7.62x39 ^^

The Nagant is an awesome rifle, been seen in use by Russians in Chechnya a few years back ^^

SpearBrave
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 12:05 PM
There were several different AK models that fire both the 5.45 x 39 and the 5.56 NATO.

Personally any AK is a piece of junk and is only good because it is cheap and ammo was cheap. There are so many in circulation because the USSR practically gave them away around the world. They are sloppy and loose fitting and really are not that accurate.

I would take a AR type any day, especially now that they are making them in .308 NATO. One well placed round is worth a thousand that have missed.

Also one must take in account that maximum effective range is not the same thing as maximum effective combat range.

Granraude
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 12:07 PM
I know there are different calibered AK's. AKM - 7.62x39, AK-74 - 5.45x39, AK-101 - 5.56. Just to name a few.

The sloppy AK's are mostly third world variants.

SpearBrave
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 12:21 PM
No I was referring to all AKs as being sloppy even the Russian ones, I have several they are very sloppy and loose that is how a AK works. They have very low tolerances in the fitting. That is why they have such big gas tubes and over sized O rings on the operating rod.

Zimobog
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 07:39 PM
You guys are right: I was thinking of the AK-74, not the AKM. Cheap, cheap rounds.

I think the quality of Sks runs much higher than the AKs. I have a Yugo variant but I wish I still had my old Russki or even one of the Chicom ones because this one doesn't have the chrome-lined barrel :(. That can be a concern when you are shooting up that Warsaw ammo.

Grimsteinr
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 09:46 PM
You guys are right: I was thinking of the AK-74, not the AKM. Cheap, cheap rounds.

I think the quality of Sks runs much higher than the AKs. I have a Yugo variant but I wish I still had my old Russki or even one of the Chicom ones because this one doesn't have the chrome-lined barrel :(. That can be a concern when you are shooting up that Warsaw ammo.

Norinco model D, and the model M, were built at the factory to use the AK magazines, they fit very well. With the addition of a little scope or a red-dot sight they make a good "Scout rifle" or hunting rifle. They use all the various magazines, even the 30's. Most States require the little 5 round mag, for hunting though.
ETA......They're much more accurate than an AK and use the same round

Zimobog
Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 10:01 PM
Weren't the Norinco import that took AK mags actually just Chi type 56 or were they modified from standard Chi Sks? I recall seeing 2 or 3 of them around back in the '90s but I never owned one that took the AK mags. Where they as good as the Chi Sks?

My state has no mag restrictions for hunting. I just like the profile of the Sks as a scout rifle... without the banana hanging out of it . :D I have nothing against hi-cap mags, just not what I want in my Sks. :) Me all by myself wouldn't be trying to lay down suppression with it, just "shoot and scoot".

Grimsteinr
Wednesday, December 8th, 2010, 02:29 PM
Weren't the Norinco import that took AK mags actually just Chi type 56 or were they modified from standard Chi Sks? I recall seeing 2 or 3 of them around back in the '90s but I never owned one that took the AK mags. Where they as good as the Chi Sks?

My state has no mag restrictions for hunting. I just like the profile of the Sks as a scout rifle... without the banana hanging out of it . :D I have nothing against hi-cap mags, just not what I want in my Sks. :) Me all by myself wouldn't be trying to lay down suppression with it, just "shoot and scoot".

The best ones were made by Norinco, and shipped, new from the factory.
There was later, I think, a "Kit" that would allow you to change over the regular SKS, to accept the AK magazines. The kit version didn't work nearly as well.
I've had an AK and it was not nearly as accurate as the SKS, model D.

IIRC, the only difference in model "D" and model "M" was the stock.
The model "D" had the regular "Chi" stock. The model "M" had a Monte Carlo stock, with the raised cheek rest, making it a much easier rifle to use with scope or red-dot sights. ETA...Both were made at the Norinco factory, AIUI.
I've shot the Norinco model D with various magazine lengths from 5 to 30.
It's a fun plinker and a handy weapon to have, AISI. ;)
YMMV.:)