PDA

View Full Version : How Germanic Are the Spanish?



Bradford
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 05:45 AM
I mean, you had the Visigothic Kingdom and Swevian Kingdom, both Germanic... While I'm sure the ACTUAL Germanics didn't go very far south into hispania and weren't as common as the native Celtiberian and Tartess people, they still had a profound effect on the history of the region.

Then, not long after the founding of those kingdoms, the moors of course take over basically the entire peninsula.

So how much of a genetic effect do you think Germanic peoples left in Spain?

Nachtengel
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 05:49 AM
Very little. Spaniards cluster with other Mediterranean people on genetic tests as far as I know, not with Northern Europeans. Besides, racial segregation existed in Visigothic Spain:


The first part of the Visigothic period was characterised by a system of segregation. Intermarriage between Visigoth migrants and Roman natives was forbidden in Visigothic France and Spain in the late 5th and early 6th century. The Germanic Visigoths and Hispano-Romans were separate; each nationality had its own priests and churches, its own courts, judges, and civil services.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation#Visigothic_Spain

Siebenbürgerin
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 06:02 AM
Hmm, Germanic is an ethnic word and a cultural one. So the Spanish couldn't be called Germanics. But there are some cultural influences left in Spain from the Germanic past times. Here some themes where you could learn more about that:

Spanish Surnames with Germanic Origins
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=41310

Map of Germanic Place Names in Iberian Peninsula
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8632

Paganism and Pagan Survivals in Spain Up to the Fall of the Visigothic Kingdom
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=99204

I found some postings about the genetics question which interests you:


One genetic marker of visigothic/germanic/scandinavian invasion in Spain is the haplogroup I. Remember that also the Suebi established Spain and Portugal carring the I haplogroup.This germanic migrations would also include Germanic forms of R1b.Haplogroup I originated in Gravettians, there were later mutations of I resulting in subhaplogroups...one variation exists among the basques since glacial times ( much time before visigothic invasions ).


According to Semino et al. 2004 (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhpgl.sta nford.edu%2Fpublications%2FAJHG_2004_v75 _Semino.pdf), I1a, the subclade which accounts for nearly 100% of hg I in Scandinavia, is present in Catalans at 3.1% and in Portuguese at 1.3%. It was, however, not found among Andalusians, which is interesting in light of what we know about Visigothic influence in the region. Present-day Southern Sweden is ~40% hg I, btw.

From this theme:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=62595

If you read the themes from the Extinct Germanic Groups forum, you'll find more informations about the legacy of the Goths.

Grey
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 06:14 AM
I wouldn't consider it so. Modern Spain is much more Romance/Celtic than Germanic.

Reich des Waldes
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 06:26 AM
Most modern Spaniards are a mix of Celtic and Latin descent I believe with possible Moorish blood in some cases. However it is interesting to note that the idea of 'Blue Blood' in nobility stems from the Spanish nobility claiming that they had blood of Visigothic descent.


Limpieza de sangre (in Spanish), Limpeza de sangue (in Portuguese), both meaning "cleanliness of blood" played an important role in modern Iberian history. It referred to those who were considered pure "Old Christians", without Jewish or Muslim ancestors.


This stratification meant that the Old Christian commoners could assert a right to honor even if they were not in the nobility. The religious and military orders, guilds and other organizations incorporated in their bylaws clauses demanding proof of cleanliness of blood. Upwardly mobile New Christian families had to either contend with their plight, or bribe and falsify documents attesting generations of good Christian ancestry. The Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions were more concerned with repressing the New Christians and heresy than chasing witches, which was considered to be more a psychological than a religious issue, or Protestantism, which was promptly suffocated.

I wouldn't consider Spaniards or their cultural to be Germanic but they certainly did enact a well defined racial caste system for the bulk of their history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangre

Sigurd
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 12:45 PM
So sure Rodriguez is a common surname which means "son of Roderick" - but I'd be careful with linking that to recent Germanic ancestry. If I consider the fact that one of my exes was 15/16 German and only 1/16 Polish yet retained a Polish surname because it was of course patrilineally passed on, such things can be a bad marker, because they're obviously inherited rather unregularly and disproportionately. ;)

Huginn ok Muninn
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 12:52 PM
Very little. Spaniards cluster with other Mediterranean people on genetic tests as far as I know, not with Northern Europeans. Besides, racial segregation existed in Visigothic Spain:


The first part of the Visigothic period was characterised by a system of segregation. Intermarriage between Visigoth migrants and Roman natives was forbidden in Visigothic France and Spain in the late 5th and early 6th century. The Germanic Visigoths and Hispano-Romans were separate; each nationality had its own priests and churches, its own courts, judges, and civil services.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation#Visigothic_Spain

This should be a red flag to those of us today who think segregation within a society will prevent the destruction of our people. It never works. India is another example of Whites being submerged in a sea of mud. There is no other solution than the expulsion of non-Germanics, especially non-Europids, from our native lands. If we do not do this, we will essentially die out.

There might be a few Germanic looking people left in Spain, but not many, and the culture is pretty much gone. I actually remember seeing a Spanish member here who styled himself as Germanic, though. His avatar is a somewhat Germanic-looking Spaniard, apparently from the early 1900s, and his picture is there also. He has red hair, but isn't particularly Germanic-looking.

http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=3915

Bärin
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 12:52 PM
What will it be next? How Germanic are the Portuguese? Italians? Greeks?

The answer is, not at all. The Spanish are Mediterranean/Romance/Latin/Hispanic, not Germanic by any stretch of imagination. Why doesn't anyone make a thread about how Germanic is North Africa? The Vandals were there, you know. :oanieyes

Sigurd
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 02:04 PM
Why doesn't anyone make a thread about how Germanic is North Africa? The Vandals were there, you know. :oanieyes

Well, at least it would mean that all those German women who go for some swarthy Tunisian lover or something aren't actually participating in miscegenation - LOL! :rofl

Nordlander
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 02:11 PM
Well, at least it would mean that all those German women who go for some swarthy Tunisian lover or something aren't actually participating in miscegenation - LOL! :rofl

I have been to Spain and they sure do not look like Germans to me .I dont think I ever saw a person taller than myself and no Blonds .The size, structure and facial aspects of a Spainiard are definately NOT Germanic

Bradford
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 04:05 PM
The actual inspiration for asking this is the fact that there is this woman, with what appears to be naturally blond hair and blue eyes at my job. She's also relatively tall, probably over 5'5, though I've not asked her. She claims to have been born in Spain. Her last name is Ruigas (sp).

rainman
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 06:18 PM
This should be a red flag to those of us today who think segregation within a society will prevent the destruction of our people. It never works. India is another example of Whites being submerged in a sea of mud. There is no other solution than the expulsion of non-Germanics, especially non-Europids, from our native lands. If we do not do this, we will essentially die out.

There might be a few Germanic looking people left in Spain, but not many, and the culture is pretty much gone. I actually remember seeing a Spanish member here who styled himself as Germanic, though. His avatar is a somewhat Germanic-looking Spaniard, apparently from the early 1900s, and his picture is there also. He has red hair, but isn't particularly Germanic-looking.

http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=3915

I don't think so. The weakness is in the people themselves and their philosophy. Christianity/Communism/Multiculturalism has destroyed the folk, not living near some other folk. Indian civilization existed for about 7,000 years. The Aryans never were a majority. They were a small group who made up the upper crust of society. Yet up until about 100 years ago there were pure bred whites at the top!! The British empire destroyed the racial caste system! Same thing with whites in Japan. They existed seperately until recent history. Yeah they mixed and raised the racial level of the middle class with a middle group of mullatos. This however didn't threaten their upper core.

The whites in India were just as protected as the whites in Europe. Now today they are just as endager (maybe more so because of small numbers) as the whites in Europe. They are all in the same boat whether they lived in pure societies or segregated ones. The problem are the modern Aryans and Jews who believe in race mixing, whose philosophy is destructive to our race.

Say if you believe that no non white should be in your land. Well all that needs to happen is for some group to come into power and they will import millions of non whites from the other side of the globe to destroy your race. Say if you are segregated again the same danger. Segregation is not the problem, but the people who destroy the race are the problem. Most of these are whites themselve who have been bred into dumb sheep by 1,000 years of Christianity. The other seed are Jewish groups who themselves are divided with half of them breeding out their race. But if they are so inferior they would not have the ability to manipulate the majority of Aryans. Its a complex mix of factors but its the beleif by a great majority of people that preserving their race and heritage is not important.

At any rate its irrelevant. You only need a small group of people to preserve the folk. If it is in fact superior over time this "new" Germanic now more racially aware and bred to a higher standard breaking off 1,000 years of shackles that have chained him down with inferior genetics and culture will rise above the others and establish himself as a dominant force in world affairs.

You shouldn't fear that non whites will outbreed you anymore than you fear birds or cows out breeding you. If the white race is truly strong and seperate it should be able to feed and defend itself. A big problem are whites who feel they should feed and take care of others. They subsidize their own destruction every bit of the way. I hope my disjointed ramblings make sense. The threat is our own people who don't preserve their race not the other races. Living with other people in our nations so long as they aren't allowed to take over and run our affairs or be accepted as one of us, should actually be of use to us.

Peoples Observer
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 06:27 PM
There is some Germanic blood in the Spaniards.

But their culture and langauge is a mix of Celto-Iberic and Romance.

But they can still be allies of the Germanic against the non-Europids. :thumbup


The actual inspiration for asking this is the fact that there is this woman, with what appears to be naturally blond hair and blue eyes at my job. She's also relatively tall, probably over 5'5, though I've not asked her. She claims to have been born in Spain. Her last name is Ruigas (sp).

The fact that she has blonde hair and blue eyes does not necessarily mean Germanic descent.

Some Celts, Iberians and Romans had blonde hair also.

Sigurd
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 09:09 PM
The actual inspiration for asking this is the fact that there is this woman, with what appears to be naturally blond hair and blue eyes at my job.

And? Blond hair and blue eyes are by far more common amongst Finnic and Baltic peoples than amongst Germanic peoples. Even most "pigmentation maps" show that whilst the majority of those are in the >79% bracket, Southern Swedes (majority of Swedes), Danes, English, Germans, etc. are in the 50-79% bracket. Thus it can hardly be immediately linked to Germanics.



Some Celts, Iberians and Romans had blonde hair also.

Indeed. Otherwise, where would cognomina such as "Rufus" come from. :P

Wulfram
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 09:35 PM
But if they (jews) are so inferior they would not have the ability to manipulate the majority of Aryans.


I have heard you debase Germanics in another thread before. Is your defense of the jew based on the fact that you have some jewish ancestry? Does this compel you to argue for these creatures because you share their blood? How much of it do you share?
In my opinion the quality of your posts in the past is entirely due to the fact that you are mostly Germanic and not because the slight jewish blood running inside you. :thumbdown
It took the jew who knows how many centuries to defeat the Germanic. But was this accomplished with an honorable battle on the field? Of course not. They have defeated us as only they know how to do best: Through subversion. If you chip away at the foundations sooner or later the whole dam is going to burst.
They knew that the Germanic is by instinct an honorable race. The only way they could beat us was to make us like them, or as you have heard before "in their image". This is why most Germanics behave so dishonorably these days.
I've asked you before to elaborate on why you think the jew is smarter than the Germanic and you did not answer. Please explain your remarks.

Gestr
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 09:55 PM
I have heard you debase Germanics in another thread before. Is your defense of the jew based on the fact that you have some jewish ancestry? Does this compel you to argue for these creatures because you share their blood? How much of it do you share?
In my opinion the quality of your posts in the past is entirely due to the fact that you are mostly Germanic and not because the slight jewish blood running inside you. :thumbdown
It took the jew who knows how many centuries to defeat the Germanic. But was this accomplished with an honorable battle on the field? Of course not. They have defeated us as only they know how to do best: Through subversion. If you chip away at the foundations sooner or later the whole dam is going to burst.
They knew that the Germanic is by instinct an honorable race. The only way they could beat us was to make us like them, or as you have heard before "in their image". This is why most Germanics behave so dishonorably these days.
I've asked you before to elaborate on why you think the jew is smarter than the Germanic and you did not answer. Please explain your remarks.

Indeed.
Jews and other ethnics like to take advantage of good-natured Anglos, and there's certainly nothing admirable about people like that.

And the only Germans in Spain are the nobility.
The Visigoths formed a ruling elite, but they never made up the bulk of the population.

Jäger
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 11:31 PM
I have heard you debase Germanics in another thread before. Is your defense of the jew based on the fact that you have some jewish ancestry?
It would be unwise to underestimate the Jew, Jews are philosophically speaking a master race, their accomplishments cannot be denied, yet, they are still the antipole of Aryans, but not beneath us, much like Chaos and Order, Light and Dark. The Jew knows that his only rival is the Aryan. :|

Nachtengel
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 11:40 PM
So sure Rodriguez is a common surname which means "son of Roderick" - but I'd be careful with linking that to recent Germanic ancestry. If I consider the fact that one of my exes was 15/16 German and only 1/16 Polish yet retained a Polish surname because it was of course patrilineally passed on, such things can be a bad marker, because they're obviously inherited rather unregularly and disproportionately. ;)
I'm pretty sure there are some Mexicans with the surname Rodriguez or Gonzales. :D


The actual inspiration for asking this is the fact that there is this woman, with what appears to be naturally blond hair and blue eyes at my job. She's also relatively tall, probably over 5'5, though I've not asked her. She claims to have been born in Spain. Her last name is Ruigas (sp).
She is not Germanic. Blonde hair and blue eyes exists even in Jews.

Wulfram
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 11:46 PM
The Jew knows that his only rival is the Aryan. :|

The jew, failing in its many awkward attempts to be our equal, resorted to petty jealousy when it realized they can never be like us. This is why they influence most of our race to behave as they do. It is easier for them to see our people act like jews than for them to behave and create like the Germanic, simply because by nature they are inferior and cannot rise to our level. They became a "master race" only as a means of erasing evidence of our culture and making theirs seem like the superior one.

Bradford
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 04:08 AM
She is not Germanic. Blonde hair and blue eyes exists even in Jews.

I know, but it illustrates more so that she's NOT Mediterranean looking more than it illustrates that she IS Germanic. What I wanted to use to indicate her for a possible Germanic is her height in tandem with her complexion and hair color. Well I suppose you'd know more than me anyway.

celticruine
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 04:27 AM
She can be perhaps in cause of the mendel laws splitted out.
A genetic posibillity of having German genes exist.
Attractive Jewish Girls with blond and Red Hair isn´t very Germanic ?
I say they migrate in cause of WW2 from Germany to all over the World.
In the Genetic Case more Posibilities exist having both art of Childs with a Jewish Girl (blonde,red,dark) than with a German Girl.

I wouldn´t say there are no germanic roots in the polish folk.
How Germanic are the Polish ?
How Germanic are the Czechian ? ;)
Some of them have blonde Hair too and was attracting very much.
Perhaps much more than some German Girls. :D
And the Hungarian have blonde Genes too ;)
Very Germanic

Bradford
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 04:33 AM
She can be perhaps in cause of the mendel laws splitted out.
A genetic posibillity of having German genes exist.
Attractive Jewish Girls with blond and Red Hair isn´t very Germanic ?
I say they migrate in cause of WW2 from Germany to all over the World.
In the Genetic Case more Posibilities exist having both art of Childs with a Jewish Girl (blonde,red,dark) than with a German Girl.

I wouldn´t say there are no germanic roots in the polish folk.
How Germanic are the Polish ?
How Germanic are the Czechian ? ;)
Some of them have blonde Hair too and was attracting very much.
Perhaps much more than some German Girls. :D
And the Hungarian have blonde Genes too ;)
Very Germanic

To be totally honest, I'd probably understand you BETTER if you said all that in German.

celticruine
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 05:29 AM
My School English is a little bit rusted in.
Would you understand me more if i write it in the German language ?
It would be a pleasure to write in German !

Ich gehe sehr stark von der Möglichkeit aus das ihre Gene durch Aufsplittung zum Vorschein kommen.
Vor allem in Angesicht der Tatsache das in Spanien die meisten nicht gerade dafür bekannt sind für ihre blonden Haare.
Nach den Mendelschen Regeln wäre es möglich das sie germanische Vorfahren hatte oder zumindest germanisches Blut in ihren Stammbaum vorhanden ist.
Im jüdischen Volk sind blonde und rothaarige Erbanlagen auch vorhanden.
Läßt für mich darauf schließen das auch bei ihnen deutsches Blut vorhanden ist.
So ganz abwegig wäre es ja nicht.
Schließlich sind die meisten Juden dunkel.
Genetisch sind die Juden nahe verwandt mit den Palästinensern.
Aber die Palästinenser haben nicht in Europa gewohnt.
Und wieviele von ihnen haben blonde Haare ?

Ich kenne Polen mit blauen Augen.
Wie Germanisch also arisch wären denn dann die Polen ?
Ein tschechisches Mädchen hab ich auch mal kennengelernt mit blonden Haaren und blauen Augen und sie war auch normal groß aber hübsch und schlank.
Dagegen kenne ich einige Deutsche Frauen die ziemlich klein blond und blauäugig sind, wie auch braunhaarige Frauen mit grünen Augen (sehr attraktiv) normalgewachsen.

Also ein paar Tschechinnen können auch deutsche Wurzeln besitzen.
Da gibt es mehr Strömungen richtung Osten als richtung Süden.
Die Spanierin könnte auch holländische Gene aufweisen. (also für mich sind Holländer genauso Germanen wie die Frisen)

Jäger
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 06:08 AM
The jew, failing in its many awkward attempts to be our equal ..
They rule over us, there is no other standard.
The Jew does not attempt to be our equal, he attempts to be our superior, and with success.
It does not matter what we can create, as long as all which we create, we create as slaves for the parasitic Jew.

You fail to comprehend the struggle for life, they cannot do what we can do, but this doesn't mean they are inferior, there are many different survival techniques in nature.
Accepting the danger of the Jew is not admiring him, it is rejecting him even more forcefully, and not underestimating him.

celticruine
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 06:11 AM
What is a Jew without his "Religion" ? ;)

Gestr
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 09:38 AM
The trait I notice in Germanic people is an unwillingness to compromise one's allegiances and personal morals. We are driven by idealism, fairness, honour, and compassion for the weak--knightly qualities.

Other races look at everyone as suckers to exploit for personal gain.
It is a quality that stands out especially in Arabs, southerners of mixed ancestry, and Jews. A gentile will act out of genuine kindess; however a Jew will show kindness to the genetic underclass, to gain their favour in a war against the gentile. They are very underhanded people, and they look at our virtues as weaknesses.

Jews are a varied lot. Some were no doubt fully Germanic converts--smart people that wanted to escape the trappings of Christianity. Some are descendants of Khazars; some are descendants of Semites mixed with Europeans. What they all have in common is reprehensible personality traits and a hatred for us.

Back to the topic of the Spanish (there seems to be two lines of conversation running): It's certainly possible for Germanic phenotypes to manifest in Spanish people, given their history, but they still hold their allegiance to other dark Spaniards. They feel culturally bound. Also you have to remember that even fair Spaniards probably carry substantial dark genes. A darker German probably has a better chance of producing more fair children.

Bradford
Thursday, October 1st, 2009, 11:10 PM
My School English is a little bit rusted in.
Would you understand me more if i write it in the German language ?
It would be a pleasure to write in German !

Ich gehe sehr stark von der Möglichkeit aus das ihre Gene durch Aufsplittung zum Vorschein kommen.
Vor allem in Angesicht der Tatsache das in Spanien die meisten nicht gerade dafür bekannt sind für ihre blonden Haare.
Nach den Mendelschen Regeln wäre es möglich das sie germanische Vorfahren hatte oder zumindest germanisches Blut in ihren Stammbaum vorhanden ist.
Im jüdischen Volk sind blonde und rothaarige Erbanlagen auch vorhanden.
Läßt für mich darauf schließen das auch bei ihnen deutsches Blut vorhanden ist.
So ganz abwegig wäre es ja nicht.
Schließlich sind die meisten Juden dunkel.
Genetisch sind die Juden nahe verwandt mit den Palästinensern.
Aber die Palästinenser haben nicht in Europa gewohnt.
Und wieviele von ihnen haben blonde Haare ?

Ich kenne Polen mit blauen Augen.
Wie Germanisch also arisch wären denn dann die Polen ?
Ein tschechisches Mädchen hab ich auch mal kennengelernt mit blonden Haaren und blauen Augen und sie war auch normal groß aber hübsch und schlank.
Dagegen kenne ich einige Deutsche Frauen die ziemlich klein blond und blauäugig sind, wie auch braunhaarige Frauen mit grünen Augen (sehr attraktiv) normalgewachsen.

Also ein paar Tschechinnen können auch deutsche Wurzeln besitzen.
Da gibt es mehr Strömungen richtung Osten als richtung Süden.
Die Spanierin könnte auch holländische Gene aufweisen. (also für mich sind Holländer genauso Germanen wie die Frisen)

I wouldn't group Frisians with the common Dutch, to be honest. I've always viewed the Frisians as being of the purest Germanics.

Rhobot
Friday, October 2nd, 2009, 06:10 AM
They aren't very Germanic at all, as they speak a Romance language.
Spain was ruled by the Visigoths, but it is unlikely that the Visigoths are the primary ancestors of modern Spaniards, and in genetic terms Spaniards don't group particularly closely with any of the Germanic-speaking nationalities.

frippardthree
Wednesday, October 14th, 2009, 08:41 AM
What is a Jew without his "Religion" ? ;)

A Marxist!:D


Albert Lindemann and Hyam Maccoby have suggested that Marx was embarrassed by his Jewish background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx#Marx_and_antisemitism

Or A Leninist!


Modern technologies intrigued Lenin as vehicles for mass communication; as Bolshevik leader, he recorded eight speeches to gramophone records in 1919; later, during the Khrushchev era, seven were put on sale. Significantly, the suppressed, eighth, speech delineated the Bolshevik leader’s opposition to Christian anti-Semitism:[42]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin#Soviet_censorship_of_Lenin

Horagalles
Thursday, October 15th, 2009, 03:06 PM
I have been to Spain and they sure do not look like Germans to me .I dont think I ever saw a person taller than myself and no Blonds .The size, structure and facial aspects of a Spainiard are definately NOT GermanicYou are not confusing them with Hispanics (Mestizos), are you?

I was recently in Spain and have to agree that most Spaniards seem to be some form of mediterranid. There was however a significant number of them that had nordoid or cromagnoid traits and I wouldn't be surprised to see such people in Germany, Poland or the Netherlands.

What I also noticed is, that they seem to be less slopy then many other mediterraneans. Madrid was neat.

Ediruc
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 06:32 AM
I recall reading that a number of Hernando Cortez Spaniard conquistadors actually were fair looking with blond hair and blue eyes. I always just assumed that in the northern, more isolated parts of Spain, where some of the aristocracy was, managed to maintain their Germanic physical hereditary traits. One of my friends claims to be Spanish, and he is tall, with fair skin and brown hair.

Nachtengel
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 07:24 AM
I know, but it illustrates more so that she's NOT Mediterranean looking more than it illustrates that she IS Germanic.
So what? Not all Spanish are Mediterranean looking.


What I wanted to use to indicate her for a possible Germanic is her height in tandem with her complexion and hair color. Well I suppose you'd know more than me anyway.
LOL. Your definition of fair complexion + tall height = Germanic would include millions of Slavs too. Germanic is not a racial type. Nordid, Faelid, Alpinid, Dinarid, and so on are racial types. Each nation has a predominant type, and a few atypical types. That doesn't mean the Nordid Spaniards are Germanics and the Mediterranean Germans are Spaniards. :oanieyes

GroeneWolf
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 05:04 PM
I always just assumed that in the northern, more isolated parts of Spain, where some of the aristocracy was, managed to maintain their Germanic physical hereditary traits.

The Spanish nobility during the Reconquisita claimed to be descendants of the Visigoths (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=111016). However this does not have to mean that the general population of Northern Spain is of dominant Germanic heritage, same can also be said of the nobility.

Méldmir
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Th Germanics who went to Southern Europe were most likely few and took power, it is unlikely they were many enough to change the demographics.

Bradford
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 05:54 PM
LOL. Your definition of fair complexion + tall height = Germanic would include millions of Slavs too. Germanic is not a racial type. Nordid, Faelid, Alpinid, Dinarid, and so on are racial types. Each nation has a predominant type, and a few atypical types. That doesn't mean the Nordid Spaniards are Germanics and the Mediterranean Germans are Spaniards. :oanieyes

That was a remarkably rude response...

But whatever, since it was uncommon amongst mediteraneans however much more typical of Germanic populations, I assumed it could indicate that there's significant Germanic influence concerning genetics in Spain.

It's not even like I was arguing with you.

Moordenaar
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 06:15 PM
The Spanish nobility during the Reconquisita claimed to be descendants of the Visigoths (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=111016). However this does not have to mean that the general population of Northern Spain is of dominant Germanic heritage, same can also be said of the nobility.

Thats impossible, Nordic phenotype makes 1% of the total Spanish population; What have been commented before just means that there are some blondism in some Mediterraneans, like for example Atlanto Meds and Baskids, but this doesnt mean Spaniards have any kind of strong Germanic influence in them.

Chlodovech
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 07:00 PM
It is estimated that there were only between 100.000 and 200.000 Visigoths living in Spain among a native population that may have been 10.000.000. - Peoples, nations and cultures, by professor John Mackenzie.

And the Church expelled at least half a million of Moors and Jews at the end of the reconquista, including the Jewish and Moorish converts to Christianity. That's another thing to be taken into account.

Oski
Tuesday, December 8th, 2009, 11:09 PM
I've heard that now and days only about 5% of spaniards would pass for "germanic" and that is phenotypic and not cultural. Although I've heard it is not uncommon or as taboo to be racist as it is in other european countries...

P.S. I like your new avatar Chlodovech :thumbup

leoninfernal
Wednesday, December 9th, 2009, 01:01 AM
Undoubtedly There is a segment of the Spanish population which must to be considered Germanic, They are the descendants of the Visigoths, a German nation. At some places especially Gallicia and Leon that never fell to the Arabs, the German heritage can be seen more easy.

That is not the situation of the Spanish nobility. According to many studies more than forty per cent of them have Jewish ancestors who converted to Christianity and thanks to their wealth and refined culture became a good choice for many impoverished noble families.