View Full Version : Nature's answer to immortality?

Saturday, November 23rd, 2002, 07:42 AM
Nature's answer to immortality?

A universe within a universe......

Proof for endlessness

The one who can answer these is the master of all existence

Saturday, November 23rd, 2002, 10:11 PM
I like to tell people that philosophy is simple...

the questions are simple...

the proposed answers are pretty simple...

it's philosophers that muddle things up.

Sunday, November 24th, 2002, 07:20 PM
There are no easy answers in life, even you should know that......

Aryan NS
Monday, November 25th, 2002, 08:10 PM
I believe that there is a scientific explanition for every thing. However much of it is beyond the realm of comprehention for the human mind.

Wednesday, December 4th, 2002, 07:32 PM
The Aryan response to the question of immortality and eternity is reincarnation and the eternal recurrence.

These ideas are found amongst the ancient Aryans, Persians, Greeks, and Teutons.

The latter idea was treated philosophically by F.W.Nietzsche.
In this view all things in life have already recurred an infinite number of times, because while time is infinite, matter is not.

This must be linked with reincarnation in some way.

Perhaps, following modern scientific speculations, there are an infinite number of parallel universes which exhaust all the possibilities, and they each recur into infinity.

See Nietzsche's 'The Will to Power', and M.Eliade's 'The Myth of the Eternal Return'.

Friday, December 6th, 2002, 01:13 AM
Eternal Recurrence is an interesting concept. It is probably the origin of N's nihilism though there are numerous ways to reach the nihilistic conclusion. Nihilism, for it part, forms a great starting point for further speculation.

N's superman is his response to nihilistic recurrence. Presumably he held out hope that a single supreme act (or individual) of 'overcoming' could break the chain of events and thus generate a new sequence - at least for the duration of this particular universe. This is a systemic view of the universe though I am not aware that he attempted to propogate the 'broken chain' into the next iteration to achieve 'eternal uniqueness' - something we can do today on the assumption that a scientific super-race a few billion years from now can survive/influence the next (re)creative moment.

Tuesday, December 10th, 2002, 04:41 PM
Nietzsche also held that 'Amor Fati' ('love of one's fate') was the answer to Nihilism.

Here one faces up to everything in one's life even to the point of each event recurring eternally.

If we accept the logic of the Eternal Return, then all events must have already recurred an infinite number of times.

The Superhuman is, therefore, one of these already recurring events, and it is the duty of the human to Will the Superhuman.

Rather the Superhuman than the Subhuman recur!

The recurrence of the Subhuman is what Nietzsche calls the 'Last Man', or the 'Ultimate Man'.

This latter is the ideal of our democratic age: the equalised, inoffensive man.

Wednesday, December 11th, 2002, 02:08 AM
N has a knack for being enigmatic and even boasted he'd never be 'understood.' At the same time, it is my understanding that he specifically admitted in a late note that the superman was his 'answer' to Eternal Recurrence.

If he had not exended his overcoming to causal chains of events, the individual interpretation of 'superman' would have little real meaning or weight. Why bother afterall?

This would only make sense, since in true repitition the mechanical nihil conclusion is complete and pervasive. Possibly, 1) he realized late in his working life the emptiness of recurrence or 2) I've read a spurious note.

Wednesday, December 11th, 2002, 04:44 PM
The Eternal Recurrence of the Same.

Actually, despite the popularity of the 'Superman', I think Nietzsche regarded his Zarathustra as being primarily "the teacher of the eternal recurrence".

It was when this thought came to him that he began 'Thus Spake Zarathustra', which is actually previewed in 'The Joyful Wisdom'.
He thought that this doctrine was held by the Pythagoreans, Heraclitus and the early Stoics, as well as being a basic 'Aryan' outlook.

However, its 'revelatory' character for Nietzsche lay in the notion of 'amor fati', as I said. There is an important section in 'The Joyful Wisdom' called 'the greatest weight', I think, which deals with this aspect of the doctrine.
Of course, to accept everything 'as it is', without guilt or reproach, is a 'superhuman' quality - 'what does not kill me, makes me stronger'.

Nietzsche's own version of Eternal Return posits that Time is endless and circular, while matter is limited. Therefore all events would HAVE to have already recurred - that is the inescapable logic of eternal return, what Nietzsche calls 'The Eternal Recurrence of the SAME' (my emphasis).

It is hard to get away from the notion that the Superman has already recurred an infinite number of times. I think that this eternal return doctrine though, and not the Superman, was Nietzsche's central thought.
He worked on it on every level - philosophically, scientifically and mythologically.

True, in certain epochs no doubt, the Superman has been absent and FORGOTTEN, - and Zarathustra 'lived' in just such an epoch, and had to extol the sub-standard a-historical human rubbish of that period to Will the Superman 'as if' he had yet to appear.
Just as in the teaching of the 'Bhagavad Gita', the higher man has to WILL his destiny - only the slave sits around to wait for 'fate' to work its 'iron laws'.

Nietzsche gave examples of the Superhuman type in our own historical epoch, mentioning Julius Caesar, Cesare Borgia and Napoleon Bonaparte.
Given those examples, Nietzsche's sister was probably correct to tell Adolf Hitler that, had her brother lived, he would have regarded Hitler as a Superman type.

I have a slight problem with the usual view that 'the Superman is yet to come', as it reeks of Judaic/Christian Messianism; whereas Nietzsche's model was the eternally recurring Dionysos ...

Thursday, May 29th, 2003, 04:19 PM
i agree with you aryan ns there is a logical and scientific
answer to everything and no the human mind cannot comprehend it. what makes me wonder though is how much brain power does the average human use. einstein was considered a genius and he only used 19% of his brain. i tend to think im a fairly smart person so i just wonder how much of my brain am i actually using and how do i tap into it so that i use more?

Tuesday, June 29th, 2004, 05:49 PM
what makes me wonder though is how much brain power does the average human use.

It became a fashionable cliche to say that humans generally suse only a small percentage of their brains, and the vast majority goes to waste.

However I think this is now denied.

The counter-example is how damgae to only a small part of the brain can have catastrophic effects on the human.

Nuovo Vesuvio
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 02:48 PM
hmmm forgive me if i got the wrong idea from the questionWe are all immortal. Today's meaning of dying is somewhat a feared conclusion from lesser evolved beings. you say a universe within a universe? If you are talking about the universe and reality - let me explain a little...

We live on the 3D grid. It is one of the lowest out of all the grids. Low=bad. You might want to read what I wrote on frequency earlier (you will find that if you want to) High=good. Below our grid is perhaps what humans label 'hell.' You've got to be pretty negative to get there. Almost immediately above us is 'heaven.' A truly classy place. And above that are higher realms for evolved spiritual beings. Our reality is governed by sound, colour, and time. Up there those things are pointless and useless. We experience emotions on the 3D grid. They are a major part of our lives, however when you evolv as a spiritual being, you realise that there are no emotions, and they are merely something you experience in our reality, in the 3D box, a virtual reality eXperiment as it seems.

If you could make the question more specific it would be helpful!
I don't think the one who can answer these is the master of all existence though...