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dark feelings
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 09:35 AM
:D i want to discuss about a stigma. this stigma says, that the nordic women are the most beautiful women. well, i think they are not and i have some reasons:
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.
2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.
3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?
well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?

Oskorei
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:19 AM
:D i want to discuss about a stigma. this stigma says, that the nordic women are the most beautiful women. well, i think they are not and i have some reasons:
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.
2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.
3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?
well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?
"many nordic women have rounded faces".

I can only reply that many Med women have moustache and bodyhair. :D

If we are discussing "the most beautiful women", we should be discussing the most beautiful within each sub-race, and then I think the most beautiful women are Nords. Maybe its because I am Nordic myself, but I prefer rather thin lips and rounded faces. Fat cheeks are probably related to obesity and not genetic.

dark feelings
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:30 AM
"many nordic women have rounded faces".

I can only reply that many Med women have moustache and bodyhair. :D

.ah. at least they dont have a tend to grow fat and they arn't white haired.

TisaAnne
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:36 AM
Dark Feelings: Why don't you post a couple pictures of women that you do find to be attractive...Since you don't like nordic women, show us what you think is beautiful.

dark feelings
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:57 AM
Dark Feelings: Why don't you post a couple pictures of women that you do find to be attractive...Since you don't like nordic women, show us what you think is beautiful.sure i can but in another time.

Aquila Aquilonis
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 11:00 AM
ah. at least they dont have a tend to grow fat and they arn't white haired.
So you must be fond of Negresses. Though they tend these days to bleach their hair too. :(

Oskorei
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 11:20 AM
ah. at least they dont have a tend to grow fat and they arn't white haired.
But actually they do, there are many chubby Med women too.

And white hair is something that comes when Nords get old, I dont think we are discussing "Are nordic, very old, women the most beautiful" ;)

Allenson
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 08:03 PM
:D i want to discuss about a stigma. this stigma says, that the nordic women are the most beautiful women. well, i think they are not and i have some reasons:
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.
2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.
3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?
well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?



I respect your opinion....but it is just that, an opinion. Different people find different things beautiful, ugly or somewhere in between.

Also, from your post, it sounds as if you are not describing the Nordic type but instead, the Borreby type. Nordics and Borrebys are similar in pigmentaion and geographic range but Borrebys are much fuller, rounder and yes, larger-breasted.

Turificator
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 08:15 PM
What exactly is the purpose of this ridiculous thread?... Beauty is not something objective, it's in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I find beautiful women among all European subracial groups, but if someone prefers Aboriginals or Pigmees, I'm not going to try and 'refute' him...

Phill
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 09:59 PM
:D i want to discuss about a stigma. this stigma says, that the nordic women are the most beautiful women. well, i think they are not and i have some reasons:
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.
2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.
3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?
well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?

From how you described your list, it doesn't sound like you're really talking about actual sub-racial Nordic women. Probably the only thing I see that could fit is the 'thin lips.'

But I'm not going going to go any further than to say this: Nice opinion you have there.

kinvolk
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:07 PM
To me , Nordic women are the most beautifull.

bocian
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:12 PM
What exactly is the purpose of this ridiculous thread?... Beauty is not something objective, it's in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I find beautiful women among all European subracial groups, but if someone prefers Aboriginals or Pigmees, I'm not going to try and 'refute' him...

I totally agree, these threads really annoy the shit out of me.

It's like trying to convince someone what tastes better, or that red is a nicer colour than blue.

That said, Slavic Women are most beautiful of all... :D

Evolved
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:25 PM
This Nordic vs Med attractiveness theme has been discussed so many times. All it does is start trouble. Be attracted to whomever you want, no one else really gives a sh^t. :anieyes

White Preservationist
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:44 PM
You have to remember that reality is objective of mans conception of it.


If you percieve something as good looking it does not mean there is anything in the nature of the object itself.

If some alien tribe would travel here they wouldn't be attracted to the women on earth.

Abby Normal
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:48 PM
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.No, it is only recently that thin lips have been considered 'sexy.' Before, rosebud lips were considered the most beautiful.


2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.Those 'Nordics' with broad noses are either East Baltics or "Borrebys" that are only considered Nordic by those who subscribe to the 'Nordish' concept. True Indo-European Nordics have long, straight, narrow noses.

By the way, Mediterranean women tend not to have 'thin, straight snubb noses;' like true Nordics they have thin and straight noses.

(Unless, that is, you mean the kind that is straight in profile, but tilts up from the base. I have a theory that this kind of nose is a true Indo-European nose, as opposed to the East Baltic and "Upper Paleolithic" broad, concave nose).


3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=26,23130047,skadi.net ,1) cheeks, i dont like it. who does?Again, these are East Baltic or "Upper Paleolithic" traits.


well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?I agree. Although I find all 'types' attractive (and though it greatly depends on the individual), generally speaking I tend to find Mediterranean women and Nordic men more attractive.

Jove
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Some might want to take a peek at the following article:



Isn't She Lovely? (humans tend to attracted to symmetric beauty)

Discover, Feb, 2000, by Brad Lemley


If you think that physical appeal is strictly a matter of personal taste and cultural bias, think again. Who you find attractive, say psychobiologists, is largely dictated by evolutionary needs and hardwired into your brain

She's cute, no question. Symmetrical features, flawless skin, looks to be 22 years old--entering any meat-market bar, a woman lucky enough to have this face would turn enough heads to stir a breeze. But when Victor Johnston points and clicks, the. face on his computer screen morphs into what a mesmerized physicist might call a discontinuous state of superheated, crystallized beauty. "You can see it. It's just so extraordinary," says Johnston, a professor of biopsychology at New Mexico State University who sounds a little in love with his creation.

The transformation from pretty woman to knee-weakening babe is all the more amazing because the changes wrought by Johnston's software are, objectively speaking, quite subtle. He created the original face by digitally averaging 16 randomly selected female Caucasian faces. The morphing program then exaggerated the ways in which female faces differ from male faces, creating, in human-beauty-science parlance, a "hyperfemale." The eyes grew a bit larger, the nose narrowed slightly, the lips plumped, and the jaw contracted. These are shifts of just a few millimeters, but experiments in this country and Scotland are suggesting that both males and females find "feminized" versions of averaged faces more beautiful.

Johnston hatched this little movie as part of his ongoing study into why human beings find some people attractive and others homely He may not have any rock-solid answers yet, but he is far from alone in attempting to apply scientific inquiry to so ambiguous a subject. Around the world, researchers are marching into territory formerly staked out by poets, painters, fashion mavens, and casting directors, aiming to uncover the underpinnings of human attractiveness.

The research results so far are surprising--and humbling. Numerous studies indicate that human beauty may not be simply in the eye of the beholder or an arbitrary cultural artifact. It may be an ancient, hardwired, universal, and potent behavior-driver, on a par with hunger or pain, wrought through eons of evolution that rewarded reproductive winners and killed off losers. If beauty is not truth, it may be health and fertility: Halle Berry's flawless skin may rivet moviegoers because, at some deep level, it persuades us that she is parasite-free and consequently good mating material. Acquired, individual preferences factor in, but research increasingly indicates that their influence is much smaller than many of us would care to know. While romantic writers blather about the transcendence of beauty, Elizabethan poet Edmund Spenser more than 400 years ago pegged the emerging scientific thesis: "Beauty is the bait which with delight allures man to enlarge his kind."

Implications of human-beauty research range from the practical--providing cosmetic surgeons with pretty-people templates--to the political and philosophical. Landmark studies show that attractive males and females not only garner more attention from the opposite sex, they also get more affection from their mothers, more money at work, more votes from the electorate, more leniency from judges, and are generally regarded as more kind, competent, healthy, confident, and intelligent than their big-nosed, weak-chinned counterparts. (Beauty is considered such a valuable trait by some that one entrepreneur recently put up a Web site offering to auction off the unfertilized ova of models.)



Human attractiveness research is a relatively young and certainly contentious field--the allure of hyperfemales, for example, is still hotly debated--but those on its front lines agree on one point: We won't conquer "looks-ism" until we understand its source. As psychologist Nancy Etcoff, author of the 1999 book Survival of the Prettiest, puts it: "The idea that beauty is unimportant or a cultural construct is the real beauty myth. We have to understand beauty, or we will always be enslaved by it."

THE MODERN ERA OF BEAUTY STUDIES got a big push 20 years ago with an awkward question in a small, airless room at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge. Psychology graduate student Judith Langlois was defending her doctoral dissertation--a study of how preschool children form and keep friendships--when a professor asked whether she had factored the kids' facial attractiveness into her conclusions. "I thought the question was way off the mark," she recalls. "It might matter for college students, but little kids?" After stammering out a noncommittal answer--and passing the examination--she resolved to dig deeper, aiming to determine the age at which human beings could perceive physical attractiveness.

Langlois, who had joined the faculty at the University of Texas at Austin, devised a series of experiments. In one, she had adults rate photos of human faces on a spectrum from attractive to unattractive. Then she projected pairs of high- and low-rated faces in front of 6-month-old infants. "The result was straightforward and unambiguous," she declares. "The babies looked longer at the attractive faces, regardless of the gender, race, or age of the face." Studies with babies as young as 2 months old yielded similar results. "At 2 months, these babies hadn't been reading Vogue magazine," Langlois observes dryly.

Her search for the source of babies' precocious beauty-detection led her all the way back to nineteenth-century research conducted by Sir Francis Galton, an English dilettante scientist and cousin of Charles Darwin. In the late 1870s, Galton created crude, blurry composite faces by melding mug-shot photographs of various social subgroups, aiming to prove that each group had an archetypal face. While that hypothesis fizzled--the average criminal looked rather like the average vegetarian--Galton was shocked to discover that these averaged faces were better looking than nearly all of the individuals they comprised. Langlois replicated Galton's study using software to form digitally averaged faces that were later judged by 300 people to be more attractive than most of the faces used to create them.

Human beings may be born "cognitive averagers," theorizes Langlois. "Even very young infants have seen thousands of faces and may have already constructed an average from them that they use for comparison."

Racial preferences bolster the idea, say some scientists. History shows that almost universally when one race first comes into contact with another, they mutually regard each other as homely, if not freakish. Etcoff relates that a delegation of Japanese samurai visiting the United States in 1860 observed that Western women had "dogs' eyes," which they found "disheartening." Early Western visitors to Japan thought the natives' epicanthic folds made the eyes appear sleepy and small. In each case, Etcoff surmises, the unfamiliar race most likely veered from the internal, averaged ideal.



But why would cognitive averaging have evolved? Evolutionary biology holds that in any given population, extreme characteristics tend to fall away in favor of average ones. Birds with unusually long or short wings die more often in storms. Human babies who are born larger or smaller than average are less likely to survive. The ability to form an average-mate template would have conveyed a singular survival advantage.

Inclination toward the average is called koinophilia, from the Greek words koinos, meaning "usual," and philos, meaning "love." To Langlois, humans are clearly koinophiles. The remaining question is whether our good-mate template is acquired or innate. To help solve the mystery, Langlois's doctoral student Lisa Kalakanis has presented babies who are just 15 minutes old with paired images of attractive and homely faces. "We're just starting to evaluate that data," says Langlois.

But koinophilia isn't the only--or even supreme--criterion for beauty that evolution has promoted, other scientists argue. An innate yearning for symmetry is a major boon, contend biologists Anders Moller and Randy Thornhill, as asymmetry can signal malnutrition, disease, or bad genes. The two have found that asymmetrical animals, ranging from barn swallows to lions, have fewer offspring and shorter lives. Evolution would also logically instill an age preference. Human female fertility peaks in the early 20s, and so do assessments of female attractiveness. Between 1953 and 1990, the average age of Playboy centerfold models--who are presumably selected solely for sexual appeal--was 21.3 years. Similarly, Johnston has found that the beauty of a Japanese female face is judged to be at its peak when its perceived age is 22.4 years. Because men are fertile throughout most of their adult lives, their attractiveness ratings--while dropping as they age past their late 20s--remain relatively higher as their perceived age increases. As Johnston puts it, "Our feelings of beauty are exceptionally well tuned to the age of maximum fertility."

STILL, A SPECIES CAN STAGNATE without some novelty When competition for mates is intense, some extreme traits might help to rivet a roving eye. "A male peacock is saying, `Look at me, I have this big tail. I couldn't grow a tail this big if I had parasites,'" says Johnston. "Even if the trait is detrimental to survival, the benefit in additional offspring brought about by attracting females can more than compensate for the decrease in longevity" The concept seems applicable to humans, too, because it helps to resolve a nagging flaw in average-face studies. In many of them, "there were always a few individual faces in the population that were deemed even prettier than the average," says Etcoff. "If average were always best, how could that be?"

Psychologist David Perrett of the University of St. Andrews in Scotland aimed to find out by creating two averaged faces--one from a group of women rated attractive and another from men so judged. He then compared those faces with averaged faces constructed from a larger, random set of images. The composites of the beautiful people were rated more appealing than those made from the larger, random population. More surprising, when Perrett exaggerated the ways in which the prettiest female composite differed from the average female composite, the resulting face was judged to be even more attractive.



"It turned out that the way an attractive female face differs from an average one is related to femininity," says Perrett. "For example, female eyebrows are more arched than males'. Exaggerating that difference from the average increases femininity," and, in tandem, the attractiveness rating. In the traffic-stopping female face created for this experiment, 200 facial reference points all changed in the direction of hyperfemininity: larger eyes, a smaller nose, plumper lips, a narrower jaw, and a smaller chin.

"All faces go through a metamorphosis at puberty," observes Johnston. "In males, testosterone lengthens the jaw. In females, estrogen makes the hips, breasts, and lips swell." So large lips, breasts, and hips combined with a small jaw "are all telling you that I have an abundant supply of estrogen, so I am a fertile female." Like the peacock, whose huge tail is a mating advantage but a practical hindrance, "a small jaw may not, in fact, be as efficient for eating," Johnston says. But it seems attractive because it emphasizes la difference; whatever survival disadvantage comes along with a small jaw is more than made up for by the chance to produce more babies, so the trait succeeds.

Along with his morphing program, Johnston approached the hyperfemale hypothesis through another route. Starting with 16 computer-generated random female Caucasian faces, he had visitors to his Web site rate the attractiveness of each face on a scale of one to nine. A second generation of faces was then computed by selecting, crossing, and mutating the first generation in proportion to beauty ratings. After 10,000 people from around the world took part in this merciless business, the empirically derived fairest-of-them-all was born. Facial measurements confirm that she is decidedly hyperfemale. While we might say she is beautiful, Johnston more accurately notes that the face displays "maximum fertility cues."

Johnston's findings have set off a ruckus among beauty scientists. In a paper titled "Attractive Faces Really Are Only Average," Langlois and three other researchers blast the notion that a deviation from the average--what they term "facial extremes"--explains attractiveness better than averageness does. The findings of Perrett and his team, she says, are "artifacts of their methodology," because they used a "forced-choice" scenario that prevented subjects from judging faces as equally attractive. "We did the same kind of test, but gave people a rating scale of one to five," says Langlois. "When you do it that way, there is no significant difference--people would tell us that, basically, the two faces looked like twins." Langlois argues that if extremes create beauty, "then people with micro-jaws or hydrocephalic eyes would be seen as the most beautiful, when, in fact, eyes that are too big for a head make that head unattractive."

But for Etcoff, circumstantial evidence for the allure of some degree of hyperfemininity is substantial. "Female makeup is all about exaggerating the feminine. Eye makeup makes the brow thinner, which makes it look farther from the eye," which, she says, is a classic difference between male and female faces. From high hair (which skews facial proportions in a feminine direction, moving up the center of gravity) to collagen in lips to silicone in breasts, women instinctively exaggerate secondary female sex characteristics to increase their allure. "Langlois is simply wrong," declares Johnston. In one of his studies, published last year in Psychophysiology, both male and female subjects rated feminized pictures as more attractive. Further, male subjects attached to electrical-brain-activity monitors showed a greater response in the P3 component, a measure of emotional intensity. "That is, although both sexes know what is attractive, only the males exhibit an emotional response to the feminized picture," Johnston says.



AND WHAT ABOUT MALE ATTRACTIVENESS? It stands to reason that if men salivate for hyperfemales, women should pursue hypermales--that is, men whose features exaggerate the ways in which male faces differ from female ones. Even when adjusted for differing overall body size, the average male face has a more pronounced brow ridge, more sunken eyes, and bushier brows that are set closer to the eyes. The nose and mouth are wider, the lower jaw is wider and longer. Ramp up these features beyond the norm, and you've got a hunk, right?

There's no question that a dose of this classic "maleness" does contribute to what is now called handsome. Actor Brad Pitt, widely regarded as a modern paradigm of male attractiveness, is a wide-jaw guy Biologically speaking, he subconsciously persuades a female that he could chew more nutrients out of a leafy stalk than the average potential father of her children--a handy trait, in hunter-gatherer days anyway, to pass on to progeny

But a woman's agenda in seeking a mate is considerably more complex than simply whelping strong-jawed kids. While both men and women desire healthy, fertile mates, a man can-and, to some extent, is biologically driven to--procreate with as many women as possible. Conversely a woman, "thinks about the long haul," notes Etcoff. "Much of mate choice is about finding a helpmate to bring up the baby" In several studies, women presented with the hypermale face (the "Neanderthal type" as Etcoff puts it) judged its owner to be uncaring, aggressive, and unlikely to be a good father.

Female preferences in male faces oscillate in tandem with the menstrual cycle, suggests a study conducted by Perrett and Japanese researchers and published last June in Nature. When a woman is ovulating, she tends to prefer men with more masculine features; at less fertile times in her monthly cycle, she favors male faces with a softer, more feminine look. But amid the hoopla that this widely publicized finding generated, a critical fact was often overlooked. Even the "more masculine" face preferred by the ovulating women was 8 percent feminized from the male average (the less masculine face was 15 to 20 percent feminized). According to Perrett's study, even an averagely masculine face is too male for comfort.

To further complicate the male-appeal picture, research indicates that, across the board in mating species, an ugly guy can make up ground with status and/or wealth. Etcoff notes that female scorpion flies won't even look at a male unless his gift--a tasty bit of insect protein--is at least 16 square millimeters wide. The human situation isn't all l hat different. Anthropologist John Marshall Townsend showed photos of beautiful and homely people to men and women, and described the people in the photos as being in training for either low-, medium-, or high-paying positions--waiter, teacher, or doctor. "Not surprisingly, women preferred the best-looking man with the most money," Etcoff writes, "out below him, average-looking or even unattractive doctors received the same ratings as very attractive teachers. This was not true when men evaluated women. Unattractive women were not preferred, no matter what their status."



IT'S ALL A BIT BLEAK. TALK TO ENOUGH psychobiologists, and you get the impression that we are all rats--reflexively unconsciously coupling according to obscure but immutable circuitry But beauty researchers agree that, along with natural selection and sexual selection, learned behaviors are at least part of the attractiveness radar. In other words, there is room for individuality--perhaps even a smattering of mystery--in this business of attraction between humans.

"Human beauty really has three components," says Johnston. "In order of importance, there's natural selection, which leads to the average face and a limited age range. Then there's sexual selection," which leads men, at least, to be attracted to exaggerated feminine traits like the small lower jaw and the fuller lips. "Finally, there's learning, t s a fine-tuning mechanism that allows you to become even more adapted to your environment and culture. It's why one person can say `She's beautiful' and another can say, `She's not quite right for me.'"

The learned component of beauty detection is perhaps most evident in the give-and-take between races. While, at first meeting, different racial groups typically see each other as unattractive, when one race commands economic or political power, members of other races tend to emulate its characteristics: Witness widespread hair straightening by American blacks earlier in this century. Today, black gains in social equity are mirrored by a growing appreciation for the beauty of such characteristically black features as relatively broader noses and tightly curled hair. "Race is a cultural overlay on beauty and it's shifting," says Etcoff.

She adds that human appearance is about more than attracting sex partners. "There was a cartoon in the New Yorker. A mother and daughter are in a checkout line. The girl is saying to the cashier, `Oh, no, I do look like my mother, with her first nose!' As we make ourselves more beautiful, we take away things like family resemblance, and we may realize that's a mistake. Facial uniqueness can be a wonderful emotional tag. Human beings are always looking for kinship as well as beauty."

Midway between goats and gods, human beings can find some accommodation between the notion that beauty is all and that it is nothing. "Perhaps it's best to enjoy the temporary thrill, to enjoy being a mammal for a few moments, and then do a reality check and move on," writes Etcoff. "Our brains cannot help it, but we can."

NATURE OR NURTURE?

"The 50 Most Beautiful People in the World" assess the source of good looks

BY ROBERT SAPOLSKY

As a scientist doing scads of important research, I am busy, very busy. What with all those midnight experiments in the lab, all that eureka-ing, I hardly have any time to read professional journals. Thus, I only lately got the chance to peruse People magazine's most recent compilation of "The 50 Most Beautiful People in the World." It was fabulous. In addition to offering helpful grooming tips, the issue grapples with one of the central conundrums of our time: Which is ultimately more influential, nature or nurture? "About beauty," opine the editors, "the arguments can be endless." No such shilly-shallying for the Chosen Ones themselves: The 50 Most Beautiful and their inner circles appear to harbor militant ideologues in the debate.



Consider first the extreme nurturists, who eschew the notion that anything is biologically fixed. There's Ben Affleck, who in service to stardom has slimmed down, pumped up, and had his teeth capped. Affleck is clearly a disciple of John Watson, famous for the nurture credo: "Give me a child and let me control the total environment in which he is raised, and I will turn him into whatever I wish." It's hardly surprising that Affleck's celebrated affair with Gwyneth Paltrow, clearly of the genetic determinist school (read on), was so short-lived.

A nurture viewpoint is also advanced by TV star Jenna Elfman, who attributes her beauty to drinking 100 ounces of water a day, eating a diet based on her blood type, and using a moisturizer that costs $1,000 a pound. Jaclyn Smith, the erstwhile Charlie's Angel, maintains her beauty has been preserved by not smoking, not drinking, and not doing drugs. However, even a neophyte student of human developmental biology might easily note that no degree of expensive moisturizers or virtuous living would get, say, me on People's pulchritudinous list.

Naturally, similarly strong opinions emanate from the opposing, nature faction-the genetic determinists among the Most Beautiful. Perhaps the brashest of this school is Josh Brolin, an actor whose statement could readily serve as a manifesto for his cadre: "I was given my dad's good genes." Similar sentiments emerge from the grandfather of the aforementioned Paltrow, who avows that she was "beautiful from the beginning."

The very epitome of the natalist program, in which genetics forms an imperative trajectory impervious to environmental manipulation, is TV host Meredith Vieira. People's editors cite various disasters that have befallen her-shoddy application of makeup, an impetuous and unfortunate peroxide job on her hair-and yet, it doesn't matter. She is still beautiful because of her "phenomenal genes."

One searches the pages for a middle ground, for the interdisciplinary synthesist who perceives the contributions of both nature and nurture. At last, we espy Monica. The single-name singer, we are told, has an absolutely wondrous skill for applying makeup. This, at first, seems like just more nurture agitprop. But where does she get this cosmetic aptitude?

Her mother supplies the answer. With Monica, Mom says, "it's something that's inborn." One gasps at the insight: There is a genetic influence on how one interacts with the environment. Too bad a few more people can't think this way when figuring out what genes have to do with, say, intelligence, substance abuse, or violence.

Original: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1511/2_21/59164980/print.jhtml

Strengthandhonour
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 11:12 PM
As it has been stated above, Everyone has a different idea of beauty(except for people that are brainwashed into thinking negroes are beatiful :| ) Nordic women have some really attractive features such as their eyes and their smiles just as Mediterenean women have some attractive features as well. But hey, it's all personal opinion

RusViking
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Yes.

TisaAnne
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 11:57 PM
As with any sub race, there are some exceptionally beautiful women....and some that are not so good looking. To say that all nordic women are beautiful, is kind of a stereotype...I have seen some pretty bad examples ;) But, overall, I think that nordics have the best features and facial quality compared to any other.

Dark Feelings: How could you find these women "ugly"??? (see attachments)

Awar
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:10 AM
Actually, TisaAnne, the third and fifth one are totally unattractive to me. The rest are much better.

Awar
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:11 AM
I already posted some women whom I find attractive, but it's in the adult sexction :D

Line18
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:14 AM
:D i want to discuss about a stigma. this stigma says, that the nordic women are the most beautiful women. well, i think they are not and i have some reasons:
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.
2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.
3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?
well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?
Im i "up north" skandinavian woman, i dont have thin lips, prominent nose, round face or fat cheeks.

well.. how many nordic women have you meet? :|

bocian
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:20 AM
Actually, TisaAnne, the third and fifth one are totally unattractive to me. The rest are much better.

They all seem attractive (some more than others), but nothing special really.

TisaAnne
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:30 AM
They all seem attractive (some more than others), but nothing special really.I just posted the the first pictures of nordic girls I could find...I don't think any of them are gorgeous, they're just examples of fairly good looking nordic women....None of them are "ugly", but they're nothing special indeed.

bocian
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:32 AM
I just posted the the first pictures of nordic girls I could find...I don't think any of them are gorgeous, they're just examples of fairly good looing nordic women....None of them are "ugly", but they're nothing special indeed.

Yes. :)

George
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:32 AM
absolutely

TisaAnne
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Now this, IMO, is an etremely beautiful nordic woman.

kinvolk
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 01:15 AM
Not quite. ;)

But inappropriate in the Science section of Skadi Forum and a violation of our Forum's rules. Please abstain from ad hominems, or vent in Free Speech and Opposing Views.
Sorry, Like to blame this one also on demon rye but I cant. Just ticked me off. My apologies!

Stríbog
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 03:08 AM
:D i want to discuss about a stigma. this stigma says, that the nordic women are the most beautiful women. well, i think they are not and i have some reasons:
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.

So do you find black women sexy because they have particularly full lips?



2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting.

You are confounding the Borreby and Baltid types with the Nordic type.



women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.

Snub noses are extremely rare among Mediterranid women, so I'm surprised you find them attractive based on your stated views.



3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?

Again, you are confusing robust UPs with true Nordics.



well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful.


It's good that you prefer your own type. :)



so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.


I'm not particularly fixated on huge breasts, but blonde hair means a lot to me.



i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?

No, but to each his own. De gvstibvs est non dispvtandvm.

Triglav
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 03:17 AM
No, but to each his own. De gvstibvs est non dispvtandvm.

Plagiarising from my statement at SAF? :D

:jk

salamander
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 03:27 AM
:D i want to discuss about a stigma. this stigma says, that the nordic women are the most beautiful women. well, i think they are not and i have some reasons:
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.
2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.
3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?
well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?

;) :D

salamander
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 03:30 AM
I already posted some women whom I find attractive, but it's in the adult sexction :D

YaH!!!

It`s Why i never visit that tread. :-O :-O :-O :-O

Awar
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 03:56 AM
YaH!!!

It`s Why i never visit that tread. :-O :-O :-O :-O

Sneak preview from my thread there:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=7877

Louky
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 04:37 AM
I'm surprised dark feelings hasn't gained a gazillion rep points for bashing Nords, but the night is young.

blut-ehre
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 05:57 AM
This Nordic vs Med attractiveness theme has been discussed so many times. All it does is start trouble. Be attracted to whomever you want, no one else really gives a sh^t. :anieyes

yeah, i mean there are beautiful women in all the euro states that look different or even so similar but pigmentation is different. get over it and stop arguing, i thought the threads were to preserve euro culture not pick the best sub culture to dominate.

northman75
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 06:00 AM
Now this, IMO, is an etremely beautiful nordic woman.I agree, Daniella is one of my favorite models. One of the many hot czech models.

salamander
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 06:09 AM
Sneak preview from my thread there:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=7877

:sway

dark feelings
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 04:41 PM
To me , Nordic women are the most beautifull.well, you are old. you probably think that every blonde can be a model.

dark feelings
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 04:45 PM
Yes.another man who need Old Aid

dark feelings
Thursday, May 20th, 2004, 04:48 PM
As with any sub race, there are some exceptionally beautiful women....and some that are not so good looking. To say that all nordic women are beautiful, is kind of a stereotype...I have seen some pretty bad examples ;) But, overall, I think that nordics have the best features and facial quality compared to any other.

Dark Feelings: How could you find these women "ugly"??? (see attachments)oh yeah they realy are ugly espacially the second, the thirth and the last one

kinvolk
Friday, May 21st, 2004, 05:52 PM
well, you are old. you probably think that every blonde can be a model.
Funny, I dont feel nor look old. I have known some Nordic women you dont want to wake up to, But on the whole I believe that they are without a doubt the most lovely to look at/be with/admire! [And when I was your age I was probably a snot also!]

Northern Paladin
Sunday, June 6th, 2004, 03:05 AM
1. nordic women have thin lips, i think that women should have full lips. everyone knows that is sexier.
2. i've noticed that many nordic women especially in norway and danmerk have broad and prominent nose, it's so disgusting. women should have thin, straight, snubb nose.
3.many nordic women have rounded faces or fat cheeks, i dont like it. who does?
well that's it. i think that southern women are more beautiful. so what? what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms? nothing.
i think that mediterranean women are way more beautiful.
wouldn't you agree with me?

1.Nordic is a very varied category. I'd say Anglo-Saxon nordics are the ones that tend to have thin lips and of course there are exceptions.
2.That's just ridiculous you can find prominent noses in almost every European group.
3.Depends on what type of Nordic women you are talking about the North Eastern Grouping tends to have more facial fat. The Anglo-Saxon and some Hallstatt types have high facial relief and "Sharp" features, that are undeniable stunning. The fact they are seen as "Sex Symbols" by men of all Races says it All.

Suebideutsch
Wednesday, February 8th, 2012, 08:12 PM
It was proven by science that nordic women are the most beatiful. I have been in southern european countries and i can tell u that mediterranaen women are fater, shorter and face is on my opinion uglier. If the mediterranean women were considered beautiful, there would not be so many northern and slavic models in southern countries.

BjrK
Thursday, February 9th, 2012, 06:45 PM
Med women or mixes are atm very trendy when it comes to porn plus all the famous models from southern Brazil that is usually Italian/german mixes. They are seen as more "sex" atm with tanned skin and dark hair with bigger bottoms. To be honest I am very glad that nordic women arent "in" atm. It is better for us.

Sigurd
Thursday, February 9th, 2012, 07:18 PM
It was proven by science that nordic women are the most beatiful. I have been in southern european countries and i can tell u that mediterranaen women are fater, shorter and face is on my opinion uglier.

I suppose I can see where many people find them luring whilst they're young, but Mediterranean women do have the habit of not aging particularly well. Whilst our women have a tendency to continue to be a nice sight even when and if they and age and take a fuller figure. :)

Thorbrand
Thursday, February 9th, 2012, 09:21 PM
Have a look at Unity Mitford (I mean our Unity Mitford) - and all the other Skadi women on the 'post a picture of yourself thread'. There's no question that nordic women are the most beautiful... :)

Unity Mitford
Thursday, February 9th, 2012, 09:27 PM
sooo sweet but i am not nordic :P

zureagieren
Thursday, February 9th, 2012, 09:37 PM
Are Nordic women the most beautiful?

Let's see. Is the sky blue? Is water wet? Is it a good idea to learn German?

Hm.

MCP3
Thursday, February 9th, 2012, 10:00 PM
sooo sweet but i am not nordic :P

;)


Have a look at Unity Mitford (I mean our Unity Mitford) - and all the other Skadi women on the 'post a picture of yourself thread'. There's no question that nordic women are the most beautiful... :)
Good post.

Sigurd
Thursday, February 9th, 2012, 10:08 PM
Have a look at Unity Mitford (I mean our Unity Mitford) - and all the other Skadi women on the 'post a picture of yourself thread'. There's no question that nordic women are the most beautiful... :)

That she sure is, but wait until you've seen her smile --- I've had that privilege, and it's one of the most wondrously beautiful things I've ever beheld. :)

Wulfaz
Wednesday, February 29th, 2012, 09:06 PM
I think a healthy male individual set reckon own female variation as most beautiful. However the media, the society, the enviroment use to change this often. Probably the chinese reckon the chinese women as more beautiful than the "large nosed", "red skinned" europeans.

The Nordid, Dinarid and Mediterranid women have typically high, narrow "horse face" what is not the most common european ideal. Nordid women are not "cute", rather womanish. What I have seen the contemporary males rather like the shorter, childish faced Reduced Cromagnid influenced woman.

http://www.listoid.com/image/12/list_2_12_20101110_093546_177.png

http://foxboroblog.com/slanchreport/images/stories/therese-alshammar.jpg

Personaly I like the high, narrow face females, the Nordids too, but I cannot choose any european type as most beautiful. However the notorious thin lips of the Nordid women is so beautiful and elegant contraty to the full lips, however it is just a personal opinion too.

Gewitterwolke
Wednesday, February 29th, 2012, 09:08 PM
Nordid women are beautiful but Nordid mixed with Cro-Magnid are prettier.

MaximusMagnus
Wednesday, February 29th, 2012, 09:47 PM
: what the nordic women got except blond hair and big bosoms?

What else is there !?!


This line alone validates my opinion that Nordic women by far are the most beautiful

Dohtig
Wednesday, February 29th, 2012, 10:05 PM
I tend to like the Keltic Nordid/North Atlantid, English/Dutch look. With a little Cromagnid thrown in. I also like women with a slightly square jaw. It seems like a lot of Nordic women have too long and narrow of a face in my opinion. Although there are many that are beautiful I tend not to like the Hallstatt type.

My ideal woman is close to Ashley Greene. Natural blonds are great as well.

http://fashionbuzz.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ashley_greene_hairstyle_dark_s.jpg

Hilderinc
Wednesday, February 29th, 2012, 10:06 PM
The Nordid, Dinarid and Mediterranid women have typically high, narrow "horse face" what is not the most common european ideal.

Have you looked at any classical painting or sculpture lately? ;)



What I have seen the contemporary males rather like the shorter, childish faced Reduced Cromagnid influenced woman.

Contemporary women seem to like more pædomorphic individuals as well, (e.g. Justin Beiber, Taylor Lautner)

They-who-run-the-media have done an excellent job perverting the beauty ideal with their cancer of modernism.

zureagieren
Thursday, March 1st, 2012, 09:34 PM
more pædomorphic individuals as well, (e.g. Justin Beiber, Taylor Lautner)

You're mistaking the case of being led by the media. I don't think the 'popularity' of such figures indicates much.

Hilderinc
Thursday, March 1st, 2012, 11:46 PM
You're mistaking the case of being led by the media.

That's why I said "contemporary"; I'm sure we can agree that a startling high percent of people are brainwashed by the media.


I don't think the 'popularity' of such figures indicates much.

You don't think so?

The visual arts have been thoroughly perverted (and most modern people don't care about them anyway), so the only time people come into contact with something that could shape their opinions on what is beautiful (or as the modern perversion calls it: "hot or not") is on the TV. Not to mention that the youngest generations have been raised by the TV, sometimes with literally no exposure to classic art, sculpture, etc.

If the magic powers of the TV can make it "cool" and acceptable to not only welcome massive amounts of immigrants, but to breed with them and adopt their culture, do you not think that it could do something as easy as unravel the sophistications of high culture (i.e. progressive beauty ideal) and appeal to a more primitive instinct (i.e. "hotness")?

__

I agree that there is more to it than just popularity, but do you understand what I mean?

Wulfaz
Saturday, March 3rd, 2012, 05:52 PM
Have you looked at any classical painting or sculpture lately? ;)

I spoke about the contempory ideals, of course. :)





Contemporary women seem to like more pædomorphic individuals as well, (e.g. Justin Beiber, Taylor Lautner)

They-who-run-the-media have done an excellent job perverting the beauty ideal with their cancer of modernism.

Expect the Far-Eastern women in the Media (including the japanese Animes/Mangas) with own typical neotenic features. Furthermore the Anime characters with great european eyeshape are more paedomorhpic than the big headed Asian women. However interestingly, the pin-up girls or the Disney female characters had rather "cute" face earlier with great eyes, reduced jaw and pointy chin.

http://images2.layoutsparks.com/1/209208/snow-white-cartoon-cute-2.jpg

http://newspaper.li/static/aeca3b27ffc10d3d3ba0989a229eb6eb.jpg

Arditi
Sunday, March 4th, 2012, 12:44 AM
For me, girls who are subnordid (nordic+alpine), but way more on the alpine side look the best.

zureagieren
Monday, March 5th, 2012, 11:48 AM
If the magic powers of the TV can make it "cool" and acceptable to not only welcome massive amounts of immigrants, but to breed with them and adopt their culture, do you not think that it could do something as easy as unravel the sophistications of high culture (i.e. progressive beauty ideal) and appeal to a more primitive instinct (i.e. "hotness")?

I was just playing with the highlight feature there. Never seen that on a forum.

Anyway no, I don't think that the television can expose a 'true' nature. It is a brainwashing tool. One of the very best things a family can do is to put the TV in a closet, and look at it only very infrequently. Even the old argument in favor of TV, 'news', is now superseded by the Internet.

I think that TV is a disturbance to the fabric of society, insofar as it is dominated by 'alien' interests. If TV were by and for Germanics, it would be harmless.