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View Full Version : Why Aren't Amerindids Classified As Mongoloids? And Amerindid+Europoid Hybridization VS Nordsinid+Europoid Hybridization



anthropoid
Sunday, April 19th, 2009, 04:39 PM
I wonder just out of curiousity why Amerindids have a seperate section solely dedicated to them. Are they different from peripheral Mongoloids?

I kind of find them less typical Mongoloid [if we base true Mongoloids as Sino-Tibetians] but the same could then be said of south east asians who look east weddid.

I think that Amerindids might have had australoid, mongoloid and europoid admixture creating an ancient blend even before the arrival of Europeans.

This is what I've noticed Mestizos[Amerindid] + Europoid mischlings differ from Nordsinid[Korean] + Europoid mischlings.

The difference is always noticeable and we can almost always identify the whether someone is a Mestizo or a Eurasian.

Mestizos seem similar to some North Indian racial types [Mediterranean Indid + East Weddid maybe?]

they really baffle me. :bconfused

AngloTeutonic
Friday, July 10th, 2009, 04:50 AM
They technically are mongloids. Their ancestors migrated from east asia to the americas through the beiring straight. But they have lived seperately for perhaps 10, 000 years, so they are different races from the sinitic, japonic, or Austro-Asiatic races.

rainman
Thursday, October 22nd, 2009, 06:42 PM
They are very close to East Asians in apperance and many other traits, but there is significant variation to classify them seperately. Even within "Amerinds" the ones in North America, especially the East seem quite different from ones in central and South America. It has been more or less established through genetic tests and archaelogy that ancient Europeans did intermingle with Amerinds, possibly even later settlements of Vikings and such had an impact. (even if the groups didn't purposely interbreed Amerinds would carry off women or children of people they killed sometimes and adopt them into the tribe).

The main differences between North Amerinds and typical East Asians though is that East Asians have a higher average I.Q. East Asians are much smaller and weaker built. Amerinds seem almost like a more primitive barbaric form of Asian, though most of them have the very calm unenergetic and quiet demeanor of an Asian and similar facial composition etc. Even the skin tone is slightly different.

While North Amerinds typically are large, strong and robust and somewhat more caucasion like the western and southern ones are more small and stocky again with features somewhat different from other asians. Some tribes in South America have black skin and look as though they have some African interbreeding and their is some evidence that this happened thousands of years ago.

So yeah there are thin lines everywhere. You can find examples of Asians that look nearly caucasion or of Amenrinds that look Asian but there is a significant difference in them as a group. Also the different history and such.

the one thing I've noticed for example is most Amerinds have had a problem assimilating into European society. They tend to become alcoholics or have below average I.Qs (though not significantly like you would see with blacks for example). Whereas East Asians have normal to above average I.Q.s, work hard, and tend to be able to function in society and be successful. They are more civilized I guess one could say.

I even think Indians from India should be cosidered their own race. They aren't really related to East Asians. Technically they are classified as Caucasions.

frippardthree
Friday, October 23rd, 2009, 08:56 AM
That is a very interesting question.


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Full Article:http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/msi013v1.pdf

Catterick
Wednesday, August 17th, 2016, 10:41 PM
The standard line last century was that the Mongoloids who colonised America first were not fully Mongoloid in their features. This stock was described at times as "Ainuoid" and reckoned intermediate between Whites and Mongoloids. Later came more typical Mongoloids into the west. Paleoamerinds onwards actually had a strong degree of White admixture before Columbus. This origin was related to the UP people of the Altai-Saiyan area of Asia.

Newman broke Amerinds into three groups. Paleoamerinds arrived as the Pleistocene Otamids surviving in the SW deserts. This category also includes Woodland tribes, Arizona basketmakers and such. More evolved Paleoamerind descendants became Mesoamerinds - including Mayans and Mississippians, the Centralids of some people. Unlike Mesoamerinds the Cenoamerinds arrived from outside as a separate race and are most Mongoloid of Americans. Migrating Cenoamerinds hybridised with native races - the Lakotid (Planid) is a Deneid (Pacifid) mixed with Woodland Lenids (Appalachids) and Walcolid Eastern Archaics (Mississipians). I don't know as much about this as I wish but the maps represent Imbelloni and v. Eickstedt's system. Shadow might correct me.

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/map-america-n.jpg

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/map-america-s.jpg

Reginleif
Thursday, August 18th, 2016, 12:03 AM
Even within "Amerinds" the ones in North America, especially the East seem quite different from ones in central and South America.

I can confirm that; I've seen lots of differents types of Amerindians here (from Central and South America as well; they not only are very different from eachother - we can tell if they are from Bolivia; Peru or Brazil - as they indeed don't resemble North American Amerindians.

Catterick
Thursday, August 18th, 2016, 12:16 AM
I can confirm that; I've seen lots of differents types of Amerindians here (from Central and South America as well; they not only are very different from eachother - we can tell if they are from Bolivia; Peru or Brazil - as they indeed don't resemble North American Amerindians.

Well Andean people are Centralids (superstrate) mixed with Fuegids and Lagids (substrate). Centralids are in parts of North America. If you imagine Istmide, Pueblide and Andide on the German maps as coloured the same, that's an important race of New World man.

Shadow
Thursday, August 18th, 2016, 05:17 AM
I have always said this and people tended not to believe it. When you look at an American Indian skull, the population he came from, and then compare it to one 100 miles away and 300 years apart, they are totally different. In fact, Europeans, European skulls, all look alike compared to Indians. They all look different from each other at the group level.

Catterick
Thursday, August 18th, 2016, 07:45 AM
I have always said this and people tended not to believe it. When you look at an American Indian skull, the population he came from, and then compare it to one 100 miles away and 300 years apart, they are totally different. In fact, Europeans, European skulls, all look alike compared to Indians. They all look different from each other at the group level.

Shadow: you studied Neumann. Can you post a whole list of his types and their diagnoses? Online its only easy to find a list that relates mostly to the archaic Period of N America - Otamid, Iswanid, Ashiwid, Lenid, Walcolid, Lakotid, Inuid and Deneid. He created other types like the Mayan Uinicid and the Nootchid of the Great Basin are mentioned less often.

Wulfaz
Thursday, August 18th, 2016, 02:28 PM
It is easily visible, that the original North-American with their higher stature and large, convex nose may have Europid strain too. However northern the Inuits are clearly Mongoloids. The interesting thing is Central- and South-America where man can spot robust Southern-Asian (or Ainouian) traits. It means the original inhabitants of the Amercas was a huge prehistoric racemixing.

Shadow
Thursday, August 18th, 2016, 06:29 PM
Shadow: you studied Neumann. Can you post a whole list of his types and their diagnoses? Online its only easy to find a list that relates mostly to the archaic Period of N America - Otamid, Iswanid, Ashiwid, Lenid, Walcolid, Lakotid, Inuid and Deneid. He created other types like the Mayan Uinicid and the Nootchid of the Great Basin are mentioned less often.

No, no, I have not. I was really done with racial typology at 19, 50 years ago, after Races of Europe. So outside Europe, I know nothing meaningful about local races. All I can report is the racial and individual variation I know from holding hundreds of these skulls in my hands as a student and seeing their descendants in the flesh.

Catterick
Friday, August 26th, 2016, 03:42 PM
To summarise from this paper:


Hrdlicka: Afansyev people resemble Algonquins (Woodland Indians)
Hrdlicka: Neolithic and Chalcolithic people west of Lake Baikal resemble Californian Indians
Debetz: agreed with Hrdlicka about Baikalians but not the White Afansyev people
Hrdlicka and Debrtz's people west of Baikal were too late to be proto-Amerind
Eskimo-Aleuts, Chukchi and Chinese are intermediate between Siberians and Amerindians in Amerindian skull traits
people of the Okunev culture are craniometricially Amerind
Okunev and Sopka deviatein the Mongoloid direction, and Uralians, Baikalians, and South Amerindians are even more Mongoloid
the Mongoloid extreme is represented by Siberians. Both Amerindian groups are much less Mongoloid, while Eskaleuts and Chukchi are intermediate between them and Siberians.
broad face and wide orbits are primitive and their narrowing is a universal diachronic tendency (related to the gracilization phenomenon)
Okunev and Sopka are clearly intermediate not between Caucasoids and Siberian Mongoloids but between Caucasoids and Amerinds


From this paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/13301834_Collateral_relatives_of_America n_Indians_among_the_Bronze_Age_populatio ns_of_Siberia

Shadow
Friday, August 26th, 2016, 06:32 PM
Wasn't it Hrdlicka who believed Homo sapiens evolved in the New World? Anyway, his work was with American Indians which may have skewed his view of other races.

Catterick
Friday, August 26th, 2016, 07:07 PM
Wasn't it Hrdlicka who believed Homo sapiens evolved in the New World?

No, the opposite. He believed in a European origin of man and a crossing through Beringia. He was one of the first to question Ramapithecus as a hominin.

Do you know Hrdlicka's typology of Amerinds? He is rightly condemned for his treatment of Yaqui remains, but his influence is felt today. Paleoindian researchers are less hostile to typology than most US anthropologists, because Kennewick inverted the political correctness. But they go with Neumann over Hrdlicka. Probably because of the Yaqui scandal.