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George
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 01:11 AM
His mother, Emilia Wojtyla (nee Kaczorowska), was a Jewess. The Jews consider a person with a Jewish mother to be Jewish.

Here's a webpage about it: http://www.friarsminor.org/xxi5-1.html

This book makes the claim http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385472374/ref=sr_aps_books_1_2/026-3670964-5367619 . It's one of those books that only got past the censors because one of its authors is a Jew.

I also remember hearing this on Frank Weltner's show http://www.ethnicsurvivalkit.com/ethnic_survival_radio_main_page.htm

biography: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/bio/early/

I'd say that his actions are by and large consistent with this fact.

As a child, his parents did not share the anti-Jewish sentiment of most Poles. He was very friendly with a Jew of the same age, Jerzy Kluger, who many years later acted as a go-between for the Pope and Israeli officials in the Vatican's official recognition of Israel. He played for a Jewish football team. He was the first pope to visit a synagogue and the first to visit the Aushwitz memorial. In the reconciliation of Jews and Catholics, he called the Jews 'our elder brothers'. He played a large part in 'Vatican II', the biggest step in the corruption of Catholicism for many years.

Of course he has done a lot of things that are above suspicion (the Catholic Church was and is poisoned by the Jews anyway), so probably he is not only pushing things in a Jewish direction as quickly as he can, but is to some extent genuinely split between his Jewish and White halves. Personally I am convinced that he is very corrupt, but even if he wasn't no Jew should be allowed to become a priest, much less Pope.

Some say that Jews have been popes before, although I have not yet taken the time to research this claim. http://members.lycos.co.uk/jloughnan/sec1_15.htm

I also know a half-Jewish Church of England vicar (of a Jewish father). His wife and family did not know that he was half-Jewish until he left them early this year. I don't know whether or not his stepfather knew. What an insane world we live in.

bocian
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 04:44 AM
Kaczorowski is a common name, as of 1990 there were 10,159 Poles named Kaczorowski, living in large numbers all over the country. The name breaks down as Kaczor- + -ow- + -ski. The root kaczor means "drake," the -ow- implies possession or an "of" relationship, and -ski is an adjectival ending meaning "of, from, pertaining to, connected with." So the name means literally "of or from the [something] of the drake." Sometimes such a name might refer to a fellow named Kaczor, perhaps as a nickname, and the surname could mean no more than "[kin] of Kaczor."

Surnames beginning with Kacz, such as Kaczmarek, Kaczmarski etc. are very popular in Poland, among Gentiles of course.

Both German and Polish Surnames are not uncommon in Lithuania.

The article is a joke.

Pluspol
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 05:23 AM
Such stories are nothing new. In some sources, every well-known person in Poland is identified as a Jew.

Dasbuck
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 08:53 AM
I strongly doubt John Paul II is a jew, because jews HATE him, yet he has held his hand out to them in peace. Perhaps he is unaware of their ways, but he certainly isn't in their fold from the way they dispise him, IMO.

TisaAnne
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 09:01 AM
Jew or not....The Pope is just a decrepit old prune. I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would worship him as if he were God on earth...Catholics are so materialistically misled that if The Pope farted, they would consider it gospel...Such a sickeningly un-thinking bunch (:o

Pushkin: Remarks such as these will not be tolerated. If you have something to say, say it with a touch of civility!

bocian
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 02:04 PM
Jew or not....The Pope is just a decrepit old prune. I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would worship him as if he were God on earth...Catholics are so materialistically misled that if The Pope farted, they would consider it gospel...Such a sickeningly un-thinking bunch (:o

Why all this hatred for the Pope? Please at least provide some reasons.

Catholics don't worship Papa as God on Earth, just as the great human being that he is.

Can we conclude that you consider Poles, Irishmen, Austrians, Frenchmen, Italians, Spaniards, most Czechs, and about half of the German population to be a materialistically misled, sickeningly un-thinking bunch?

You make me sick.

TisaAnne
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 10:10 PM
Catholics don't worship Papa as God on Earth, just as the great human being that he is.
What makes him so great? What has he done that is worthy of fanatical praise? He is held on a pedestal above anyone and everyone and he is, in a sense, worshipped...People bow before him and that is wrong. Anyone who believes in God and the Bible would know that you are not supposed to bow before anyone but the Lord and that worshipping graven images is a sin.



Can we conclude that you consider Poles, Irishmen, Austrians, Frenchmen, Italians, Spaniards, most Czechs, and about half of the German population to be a materialistically misled, sickeningly un-thinking bunch?.
Yes, you can make that conclusion....Catholicism is a distorted version of Christianity that is nothing more than a mass of formality and traditions of man. You think that by confessing your sins to a priest that you are absolved of any guilt or responsibility? A man cannot absolve you of your sins...only repentance to God will do that. Saying a couple "hail mary's" and clutching rosary beads isn't going to get you into Heaven.


You make me sick.
Assuming that you are a Catholic, I'm not surprised that I make you sick...I'm even a bit flattered! :D Maybe if you actually read the Bible you would know that my dislike for Catholicism is justified, not out of ignorant vehemence.

Gesta Bellica
Sunday, May 16th, 2004, 10:42 PM
What makes him so great? What has he done that is worthy of fanatical praise? He is held on a pedestal above anyone and everyone and he is, in a sense, worshipped...People bow before him and that is wrong. Anyone who believes in God and the Bible would know that you are not supposed to bow before anyone but the Lord and that worshipping graven images is a sin.



Yes, you can make that conclusion....Catholicism is a distorted version of Christianity that is nothing more than a mass of formality and traditions of man. You think that by confessing your sins to a priest that you are absolved of any guilt or responsibility? A man cannot absolve you of your sins...only repentance to God will do that. Saying a couple "hail mary's" and clutching rosary beads isn't going to get you into Heaven.


Assuming that you are a Catholic, I'm not surprised that I make you sick...I'm even a bit flattered! :D Maybe if you actually read the Bible you would know that my dislike for Catholicism is justified, not out of ignorant vehemence.

Nobody is worshipping the Pope like if he is God.
If Catholicism is a distorted version of Christianity, what are the Protestant if not a distortion of another distortion? :D

It's useless to drop down a list of all the negative things that we can find in every religion, none is better than the others.
And dividing the Europeans just cause of their faith, by calling them names is really a smart move on a preservation path of our identity.

The Muslims would appreciate your speech, our division is their strength.

bocian
Monday, May 17th, 2004, 01:36 AM
What makes him so great? What has he done that is worthy of fanatical praise? He is held on a pedestal above anyone and everyone and he is, in a sense, worshipped...People bow before him and that is wrong. Anyone who believes in God and the Bible would know that you are not supposed to bow before anyone but the Lord and that worshipping graven images is a sin.

You shouldn't answer with a question. What fanatical praise? Most people see him as a great Man, Catholic and Non-Catholic alike.

He played a huge part in the downfall of Communism in Eastern Europe, so much so that the KGB even tried to asassinate him. He has been spreading the message of peace, everywhere he has went. Has organized World youth days, for the young and often neglected people of the world. As a traditional Catholic, his stance on abortion and sex should be admired, not hated.

These are some of the things that I can think of right now, I agree, one doesnt need to admire him, but to outright hate him, is beyond me.



Yes, you can make that conclusion....Catholicism is a distorted version of Christianity that is nothing more than a mass of formality and traditions of man. You think that by confessing your sins to a priest that you are absolved of any guilt or responsibility? A man cannot absolve you of your sins...only repentance to God will do that. Saying a couple "hail mary's" and clutching rosary beads isn't going to get you into Heaven.

At least you stick to your guns. A billion people are wrong, and you are right.
Most people who go to confession realize that it's not the priest but God that they're talking to, and don't share your short-sighted materialistic point-of-view. Looking at your profile I realize that you are still a child, no surprise there really. Surprising is the fact that you have the audacity to talk about other people as if they were Children.



Assuming that you are a Catholic, I'm not surprised that I make you sick...I'm even a bit flattered! :D Maybe if you actually read the Bible you would know that my dislike for Catholicism is justified, not out of ignorant vehemence.


Frankly, my beliefs are none of your business.
Your dislike for Catholicism is purely out of childish ignorance.
I can't comprehend how one can have such strong feelings about anything, especially Faith.
I would never be able to say, Catholicism is the best, or Protestants are fools or vice-versa. I guess my Catholic upbringing is coming through.

As Gesta Bellica said, it's nonsensical to look for negative things about our respective Religions.

norda
Monday, May 17th, 2004, 05:33 PM
Unfortunately an author show “deep knowledge” ;) in E.European issues. First of all its was hard to find “Khazars” among Polish jewery as they originated in Western Europe.

There is no such Lithuanian name as "Kaczarowska"
To be “Lithuanian” in XIXc didn’t mean to be Baltic (ethnically) but belongs geographically to region of former Lithuanian Dukedom where majority was Slavic- Byelorussian and Polish. Of course Kaczorowski surname is truly polish and was not used by Jews.
There are only 2 such surnames (probably as an effect of marriages) among 2 mln of (pol.) Jewish surnames here http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/
That’s interesting that not typically polish Szolc surname can not be find in this rich database.
That’s probably Polish variation of German Schulz which was also not very Jewish sound.
His “jewish friends” and “sympathies” are the other issue and should not be connected with his roots. Its interesting that nowadays the majority of politicians and VIPs are discovering such a way of life.

Taras Bulba
Monday, May 17th, 2004, 07:09 PM
People, keep things civil here. TisaAnne, your knee-jerking remarks will not be tolerated. Consider yourself warned!

Odin Of Ossetia
Monday, May 17th, 2004, 10:22 PM
What makes him so great? What has he done that is worthy of fanatical praise? He is held on a pedestal above anyone and everyone and he is, in a sense, worshipped...People bow before him and that is wrong. Anyone who believes in God and the Bible would know that you are not supposed to bow before anyone but the Lord and that worshipping graven images is a sin.


Yes, you can make that conclusion....Catholicism is a distorted version of Christianity that is nothing more than a mass of formality and traditions of man. You think that by confessing your sins to a priest that you are absolved of any guilt or responsibility? A man cannot absolve you of your sins...only repentance to God will do that. Saying a couple "hail mary's" and clutching rosary beads isn't going to get you into Heaven.


Assuming that you are a Catholic, I'm not surprised that I make you sick...I'm even a bit flattered! :D Maybe if you actually read the Bible you would know that my dislike for Catholicism is justified, not out of ignorant vehemence.


The above are perfectly valid and true descriptions of Catholicism, the pope, and their collective very great shortcomings.


And yes, it is true, there are people who worship him as if he was a god; a worship he most certainly does not deserve. Why do they keep on calling him as the "Holy Father" when the only true Holy Father is in Heaven, ... and he does not fahrt ... :D


I am not really so sure of that he is so universally revered by both Catholics and non-Catholic either; at least I do not rever him. :P


I do not understand why you people make such a fuss out of it. And even considering this "unity of Christiandom" nonsense, lets face it, there is perhaps no other organization on the face of this planet that did as much to destroy Christiandom's unity as the Roman Catholic Church.


Talking of Lithuania, do not forget that it had a large Jewish population, so if you really love the Pope, I do not think you should mind that he may be part-Jewish. At least the avatar of "norda" shows that he has a strong attachment to these people, so it looks nice to see some of you making progress. :)

norda
Monday, May 17th, 2004, 11:09 PM
Talking of Lithuania, do not forget that it had a large Jewish population, so if you really love the Pope, I do not think you should mind that he may be part-Jewish. At least the avatar of "norda" shows that he has a strong attachment to these people, so it looks nice to see some of you making progress. :)
Large population which used to live in ghettos and never assimilated... should be added. So he’s probably as jewish as average skadi member.
Odin you are famous of your personal remarks.. :D
Indeed I have strong attachment.. I was called "survivor" by two important ppl of Skadi staff ;)

BlutUndEhre
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 04:23 AM
His mother, Emilia Wojtyla (nee Kaczorowska), was a Jewess. The Jews consider a person with a Jewish mother to be Jewish.

Here's a webpage about it: http://www.friarsminor.org/xxi5-1.html

This book makes the claim http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385472374/ref=sr_aps_books_1_2/026-3670964-5367619 . It's one of those books that only got past the censors because one of its authors is a Jew.

I also remember hearing this on Frank Weltner's show http://www.ethnicsurvivalkit.com/ethnic_survival_radio_main_page.htm

biography: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/bio/early/

I'd say that his actions are by and large consistent with this fact.

As a child, his parents did not share the anti-Jewish sentiment of most Poles. He was very friendly with a Jew of the same age, Jerzy Kluger, who many years later acted as a go-between for the Pope and Israeli officials in the Vatican's official recognition of Israel. He played for a Jewish football team. He was the first pope to visit a synagogue and the first to visit the Aushwitz memorial. In the reconciliation of Jews and Catholics, he called the Jews 'our elder brothers'. He played a large part in 'Vatican II', the biggest step in the corruption of Catholicism for many years.

Of course he has done a lot of things that are above suspicion (the Catholic Church was and is poisoned by the Jews anyway), so probably he is not only pushing things in a Jewish direction as quickly as he can, but is to some extent genuinely split between his Jewish and White halves. Personally I am convinced that he is very corrupt, but even if he wasn't no Jew should be allowed to become a priest, much less Pope.

Some say that Jews have been popes before, although I have not yet taken the time to research this claim. http://members.lycos.co.uk/jloughnan/sec1_15.htm

I also know a half-Jewish Church of England vicar (of a Jewish father). His wife and family did not know that he was half-Jewish until he left them early this year. I don't know whether or not his stepfather knew. What an insane world we live in.



One, who gives a fuck if the Pope is jewish? It shouldn't be a problem being that Jesus Christ was a jew, and Catholicism (Not to mention every other Christian denomination, which DID sprout from Catholicism) came from judaism.
After rising three days after His crucifixion, Christ gave Peter the metaphorical keys to Heaven and made him leader (Now called Pope) of the CHRISTian church. Christian means "universal." It later became known as the Catholic church which Martin Luther broke away from (Called a schism). So you see, Catholicism and every Christian denomination is inherently jewish. I just accept it and keep my idealogy and faith separate.
What did you mean by John Paul II's decisions being in accordance with his jewish ancestry?

BlutUndEhre
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 04:31 AM
What makes him so great? What has he done that is worthy of fanatical praise? He is held on a pedestal above anyone and everyone and he is, in a sense, worshipped...People bow before him and that is wrong. Anyone who believes in God and the Bible would know that you are not supposed to bow before anyone but the Lord and that worshipping graven images is a sin.



Yes, you can make that conclusion....Catholicism is a distorted version of Christianity that is nothing more than a mass of formality and traditions of man. You think that by confessing your sins to a priest that you are absolved of any guilt or responsibility? A man cannot absolve you of your sins...only repentance to God will do that. Saying a couple "hail mary's" and clutching rosary beads isn't going to get you into Heaven.


Assuming that you are a Catholic, I'm not surprised that I make you sick...I'm even a bit flattered! :D Maybe if you actually read the Bible you would know that my dislike for Catholicism is justified, not out of ignorant vehemence.



Nobody bows before the Pope or worships him, we just have an enormous respect for him. Justifiably so, he has done more for the Catholic church than any other Pope has in a long time. He is great man.
Catholicism is a distorted view of Christianity? All Christian denominations came from Catholicism. Christ gave Peter the metaphorical keys to the CHRISTian church and made him leader (Now known as Pope) of His holy church. It later became known as the Catholic church (Catholic means "universal"). The first schism was Martin Luther's, he founded the Lutheran church. Catholicism is mankind's oldest Christian denomination.
We don't believe that you are absolved (In the sense you seem to be using it in) after confession. By absolved, we mean we are forgiven, but our punishment comes to us in Purgatory.

BlutUndEhre
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 04:35 AM
Jew or not....The Pope is just a decrepit old prune. I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would worship him as if he were God on earth...Catholics are so materialistically misled that if The Pope farted, they would consider it gospel...Such a sickeningly un-thinking bunch (:o

Pushkin: Remarks such as these will not be tolerated. If you have something to say, say it with a touch of civility!



We don't have to believe or accept everything the Pope says, alot of times we don't. But when the Pope sits on the throne of Peter and speaks, he is infallible by God.

BlutUndEhre
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 04:41 AM
The above are perfectly valid and true descriptions of Catholicism, the pope, and their collective very great shortcomings.


And yes, it is true, there are people who worship him as if he was a god; a worship he most certainly does not deserve. Why do they keep on calling him as the "Holy Father" when the only true Holy Father is in Heaven, ... and he does not fahrt ... :D


I am not really so sure of that he is so universally revered by both Catholics and non-Catholic either; at least I do not rever him. :P


I do not understand why you people make such a fuss out of it. And even considering this "unity of Christiandom" nonsense, lets face it, there is perhaps no other organization on the face of this planet that did as much to destroy Christiandom's unity as the Roman Catholic Church.


Talking of Lithuania, do not forget that it had a large Jewish population, so if you really love the Pope, I do not think you should mind that he may be part-Jewish. At least the avatar of "norda" shows that he has a strong attachment to these people, so it looks nice to see some of you making progress. :)



Nobody even comes close to revering or worshiping the Pope as if he were God, or even close to deitous existence. I've already addressed Christianity's Catholic base so I won't again, but it surprises me how stupid you people are. I'd say that the average Skadi member exhibits some degree of anti-semitic beliefs, and I'm surprised at how much you dumbasses subscribe to the jewsmedia's portrayal of the Catholic church. Shame...

StrÝbog
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 05:13 AM
What the fuck does that mean?

I guess the stereotype that Catholics never actually *read* the Bible is true! :D

BlutUndEhre
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 05:16 AM
I guess the stereotype that Catholics never actually *read* the Bible is true! :D



I read the Bible, and I know who Simon Bar Jonah is, but I have no idea what you mean by your previous comment.

StrÝbog
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 05:22 AM
The fact that Christianity is Jewish to the core.

BlutUndEhre
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 05:35 AM
The fact that Christianity is Jewish to the core.



Clearly you haven't read my other posts... We acknowledge that our faith has a jewish base; Christ was a jew. But we are not jews ourselves.
My question to you is, do you even know who Simon Bar Jonah was, I ask because your comment about the throne of Simon Bar Jonah seems a bit stupid and out of place. Some people are just mentally defective... ;(

StrÝbog
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 09:01 AM
My question to you is, do you even know who Simon Bar Jonah was, I ask because your comment about the throne of Simon Bar Jonah seems a bit stupid and out of place. Some people are just mentally defective... ;(

Why, of course. He was the Rock upon which Christ built your church. :D

http://www.catholicapologetics.net/Blessed%20are%20you,%20Simon%20Bar-Jonah.htm

Milesian
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 10:09 AM
The fact that Christianity is Jewish to the core.

Of course, everyone knows that Christians adhere only to the Torah (and not the New Testament), that they believe the Messiah hasn't come yet, that they believe only Jews go to Heaven (and not the Goyim) , that they are all circumsised, and keep all the other Old Laws as well :doh :D

Glenlivet
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 02:39 PM
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmudx.htm

What do you think about that link's reliability?



Of course, everyone knows that Christians adhere only to the Torah (and not the New Testament), that they believe the Messiah hasn't come yet, that they believe only Jews go to Heaven (and not the Goyim) , that they are all circumsised, and keep all the other Old Laws as well :doh :D

Milesian
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 02:57 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have time to check it out right now but I ran across the link to it only yesterday on another website under the heading -

Anti-Catholic Sites : Refuting the fallacies of Biblebelievers.org ;)

BlutUndEhre
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 06:26 PM
Why, of course. He was the Rock upon which Christ built your church. :D

http://www.catholicapologetics.net/Blessed%20are%20you,%20Simon%20Bar-Jonah.htm



Alright, I get it jerkoff, you want to bait me into an argument about Catholicism's judaic roots. The point is, Catholicism and every Christian faith is judaic in root, and i won't try to argue it. I hate jews like everyone else, but I keep my faith and idealogy separate and try never to think about the two at the same time.

Taras Bulba
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 08:16 PM
The fact that Christianity is Jewish to the core.

"...you will notice the great difference between the Jewish and Christian religions. But these are not all. We consider the two religions so different that one excludes the other. ...we emphasized that there is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian religion. There is not any similarity between the two concepts."
--Rabbi Maggal, President, National Jewish Information Service, 21 August 1961

Taras Bulba
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 08:18 PM
Stribog and BlutUndEhre, no flame wars here!

salamander
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004, 08:32 PM
Nobody is worshipping the Pope like if he is God.
If Catholicism is a distorted version of Christianity, what are the Protestant if not a distortion of another distortion? :D

It's useless to drop down a list of all the negative things that we can find in every religion, none is better than the others.
And dividing the Europeans just cause of their faith, by calling them names is really a smart move on a preservation path of our identity.

The Muslims would appreciate your speech, our division is their strength.

:thumbsup

taran
Thursday, July 1st, 2004, 07:33 AM
According to some interpretations of St. Malachy, the last Pope will be a Jew. The prophecy is that the last pope will be "the glory of the olive," and that this could be a reference to the Mount of Olives. So if Pope John Paul II is a Jew maybe he is the last Pope and we are about to see the end of the world.

http://www.bible-sabbath.com/standish/twobeasts/tb50.htm

Dasbuck
Friday, July 2nd, 2004, 10:41 PM
This thread is needlessly divisive. We are not on this site to defend or destroy a religion, but to save our own people. I was raised a Catholic, and still consider myself a Christian, yet I hold no animosity towards Catholics, nor to other Christian faiths. In this light, I also have no animosity towards whites of non-Christian or pagan faiths. Threads like these make the jews dance for joy as it causes us to focus on non-issues of faith when the entirity of our racial existence is threatened.

So, stop this stupidity and remember what matters: Race, not religion.

BlutUndEhre
Saturday, July 3rd, 2004, 12:46 AM
This thread is needlessly divisive. We are not on this site to defend or destroy a religion, but to save our own people. I was raised a Catholic, and still consider myself a Christian, yet I hold no animosity towards Catholics, nor to other Christian faiths. In this light, I also have no animosity towards whites of non-Christian or pagan faiths. Threads like these make the jews dance for joy as it causes us to focus on non-issues of faith when the entirity of our racial existence is threatened.

So, stop this stupidity and remember what matters: Race, not religion.



Too true.

Bushido_Boy
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 02:37 PM
Who cares if he is Jewish! Hes a good man, and does a lot of good.

Milesian
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 02:43 PM
Who cares if he is Jewish! Hes a good man, and does a lot of good.

As a faithful Catholic, I'm not sure I agree with the whole "The Pope is a good man" thing.
An understanding of Catholic theology would suggest that since Vatican II, heresies have been promoted from the top down.
In these times it is perhaps more prudent to follow the following advice -

"We should obey the Pope in all things that are lawful, but we are not obliged to follow him into error"

The life of St Athanasius is relevant in these times ;)

Bushido_Boy
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 02:51 PM
I agree. Some of the beliefs added on during Vatican II are very concerning, Two being: 1: Muslims worship the same God. Lumen Gentium 1964, and 2: Orthodox have valid sacraments, I dont know the official date of change in tradition for that, but I know its wrong, St. Augustine speaks of it, and declares, all sacraments outside the Church void, and more harmful than helpful. Council of Trent 16th C. Declared the same, in its 'Catechism of Trent'.

Milesian
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 02:58 PM
I agree. Some of the beliefs added on during Vatican II are very concerning, Two being: 1: Muslims worship the same God. Lumen Gentium 1964, and 2: Orthodox have valid sacraments, I dont know the official date of change in tradition for that, but I know its wrong, St. Augustine speaks of it, and declares, all sacraments outside the Church void, and more harmful than helpful. Council of Trent 16th C. Declared the same, in its 'Catechism of Trent'.

Indeed, JPII simply continued and built on the Vatican II reforms.
There is a whole host os opinions such as Freedom of Conscience (which a previous pope labelled as Insanity) and various other liberal and at times Masonic (re: Alta Vendita)opinions being voiced as if they were Catholic tenets.
The New Mass is far closer to Cramer's Anglican Service or Luther's Evangelical Mass than to the perpetual Tridentine Mass (which was to be the Mass for all time as described in the Papal Encyclical - Quo Primum Tempore).
Not suprising when it was created by a Freemason (Annibale Bugnini) and six Protestant ministers. Bugnini later described it as "A major conquest of the Catholic Church" :|

A Catholic really has to walk a tightrope these days, rejecting the heresies and false opinions coming from Rome while making sure we do not cross the line over to Schism.

"Catholics faithful to tradition, even if reduced to a handful, are the true Church of Christ" - St Athanasius :)

Bushido_Boy
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 03:08 PM
VII Catholics always use Matt 18-16-21 [I think thats hell wont beat the church], to say well Christ promised it, so the Pope cant be wrong, well heres one thing to look at, at that statement. Did Christ say 'Church' [Institution] or 'church' [His People] ;)

Milesian
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 03:14 PM
VII Catholics always use Matt 18-16-21 [I think thats hell wont beat the church], to say well Christ promised it, so the Pope cant be wrong, well heres one thing to look at, at that statement. Did Christ say 'Church' [Institution] or 'church' [His People] ;)

Indeed, many people think the Pope must always be correct because of Papal Infallibillity, but this is simply not what Papal Infallibility is about.
The Pope is still human and if he is not speaking ex cathedra then he is as liable as you or me (his superior theological training excepted).

St Athansius suffered exile for opposing his Pope, yet was later justified by the Church, canonised and made a Doctor of the Church while the same Pope was repeatedly anathematised by successive councils.

St Cyprian branded Pope St Stephen a "publican and a heathen"

St Paul opposed St Peter (the first Pope) to his face when he was found in error and falling back into Jewish traditions and customs

Pope Adrian also stated that it was clear that there had been heretical popes in the past.

So we can see the position of blind obedience to the Pope is not in keeping with Catholic theology, but rather is held through ignorance.
A Pope may err, but it is the Church as a whole which is indefectable and will eventually right itself.

Bushido_Boy
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 03:19 PM
Im in total agreement :)

No Code
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 07:39 PM
I think the main lesson that Jesus tried to pass was "Forget the differences and love each other". :)

Milesian
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 07:47 PM
I think the main lesson that Jesus tried to pass was "Forget the differences and love each other". :)

Source? :)

No Code
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 08:29 PM
Source? :)
Its my interpration and I think is a very good one.Fits for everybody of any religion.

Milesian
Tuesday, July 6th, 2004, 10:49 PM
Its my interpration and I think is a very good one.Fits for everybody of any religion.

Private Interpretation? Well at least you are honest, Herr Luther ;)

No Code
Wednesday, July 7th, 2004, 08:29 PM
Private Interpretation? Well at least you are honest, Herr Luther ;)
aahhh c'mon kittie...dont you think that in the end is faith in love that still keep us with hope?

Taras Bulba
Wednesday, July 7th, 2004, 08:55 PM
Damnit, this crap better stop, Im warning you people, especially JAPETOS! :eyes
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/spam3.jpg

If you dont have anything intelligent to say DONT SAY IT!

Milesian
Wednesday, July 7th, 2004, 11:26 PM
aahhh c'mon kittie...dont you think that in the end is faith in love that still keep us with hope?


Faith in love keeps us in hope? I'm not even sure what that means, toots ;)
I'm an adherent of Christianity, not No-Codeism. Sorry

"Come on people well, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one and other right now..." :D

Taras Bulba
Saturday, July 10th, 2004, 04:43 PM
"Come on people well, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one and other right now..." :D

Whats really pathetic is that many churches(Protestant mostly but some dumbass Catholic) actually sing that as a hymn. Pathetic! :eyes

Milesian
Saturday, July 10th, 2004, 05:31 PM
Whats really pathetic is that many churches(Protestant mostly but some dumbass Catholic) actually sing that as a hymn. Pathetic! :eyes

Protestant and Neo-Catholic Churches (ie Pseudo-Protestant) are best avoided like the plague, unless fluffy liberalism happens to be your cup of tea.
My own parish chapel has a perfectly good organ that sits and is never used, while the folk Mass guitarists go through their repetoire of cringingly embarrasing and completely irrelevant songs.

Did I tell you about the Karaoke Wedding over on Irish-Nationalism.com?.....<SHAMELESS PLUG> :D

Pedro
Sunday, July 11th, 2004, 02:16 PM
The Pope is not a Jew!

The Pope was against Irak war. The Pope is against palestinian genocide and the Vatican is a very important found of knowledge and consciencie

The Paps is an enemy of the new order and of the capitalist-liberalist System.

The Jesuscrist religion is a good religion I cant say the true, but it is a good religion for the people and a good antidote (not the unique) against our crazy world.

And Juan Pablo II is a good Papst; perhaps the last one.



The catholic church have a lot of movements. There are bad movements and good movements.



You need information about the catholic church. They are no pederastians, no jews, no shits. They are a philosophie of life and a very important religion. The people dont make a religion, but the religion make de people.



http://www.aciprensa.com/juanpabloii/

http://www.vatican.va/

http://www.catolicos.org/

Milesian
Sunday, July 11th, 2004, 02:51 PM
The Catholic Faith is a good one, and I believe it is the True Faith.
However, I cannot agree that John Paul II is a good Catholic or that he is opposed to the New World Order.

In fact all the Popes from John XXIII who instituted the Second Vatican Council are suspect of heresy, liberalism and Anti-Catholicism.

Here is a list of some of JPII errors - http://www.romancatholicism.org/101-heresies.html

John Paul II has appeared to call on a New World Order rather than oppose it-

""More than ever, we need a new international order that draws on the experience and results achieved in these years by the United Nations," he declared during a service to mark the Roman Catholic Church's World Day of Peace, celebrated on January 1. .......

In his homily, the Pope said the new world order he wanted "would be able to provide solutions to the problems of today ... based on the dignity of human beings, an integrated development of society, solidarity between rich and poor nations, and on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress."

Peter Jennings, press secretary to the Most Reverend Vincent Nichols, Archbishop of Birmingham, said: "The Pope is a great advocate of the UN"

Source: The Guardian , 2/1/2004

Vatican II was the infiltration of the Church spoken of in the Alta Vendita document, which was temporarily thwarted by Emperor Franz Josef of Austro-Hungary and the Archbishop of Krakow, and for which Pope St Pius X braced the Church for in preparation.

John Paul II has continued and even expanded upon Vatican II's heresies with his calls for Liberty of Conscience and other errors previously condemned by the Church.

Thus I conclude, he is not a good Pope

Pedro
Sunday, July 11th, 2004, 04:03 PM
I have not enough knowledge and I kan no good reply

All the people is against the Pope. Mass media, intellectual people, ideological movements, etc...

Right wing, left wing and all the people are against this man.

the Pope is not a jew. He cam to Spain and I saw his and he have the light of God.

You can say, the people around the pope is no good. But the Pope, this Pope... is a holy man. He makes all with good heart.

The Vatikan II is a mistake, i agree. The eternal word of God can not have infuences of the transitorial word of the terrenal world.