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Taras Bulba
Thursday, May 13th, 2004, 10:56 PM
And didn't Rosenberg call his book 'The Myth of the Twentieth Century (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1157&catid=24)'? Meaning that Aryan Blood was the mythos of that century; it was the mythos on which National Socialism stands.

Yes a book that Hitler found boring, and hardly any major NS leader read.

"A number of historians noted that Hitler did not take Alfred Rosenberg seriously at all, and that he was contemptuous of Rosenberg's cloudy book The Myth of the 20th century (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1157&catid=24). According to Speer, Hitler said, "A step backward to medieval mythmaking!" Heer cited one of Hitler's 1942 table talks, in which he expressed his pleasure with Cardinal Faulhaber's public protests against Rosenberg's screed." --John Lukacs the Hitler of History pg. 122


But since we're on the question of Rosenberg, there's actually questions about whether or not he was really anti-Christian. Rosenberg admits in The Myth of the 20th Century (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1157&catid=24) that Christ's teachings were fundamentally non-Jewish and that much of the Jews' hatred for all things European stems from their intense hatred of Christ and Christianity.

Moody
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 05:00 PM
I have read Rosenberg's 'Myth' myself, have you? That Hitler had little time for it, says more about the Leader's pragmatic cast of mind [and very stringent taste] than it does about the book itself.

Rosenberg's book was a best-seller in N-S Germany second only to Mein Kampf. It was placed in the Tannenberg Vault alongside Mein Kampf and Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra.

However, I acknowledge that the book was criticised as you say, and Rosenberg was increasingly side-lined during the war years [this didn't prevent the Allies from murdering him though].

I believe that the reason for this is that Rosenberg was very much ahead of his time; much in the book is still being digested by N-S thinkers.

Rosenberg's position on Christianity is fairly clear. He approves of the Manichaean heresy as found in the Cathars [this was ruthlessly persecuted by the Catholic church]. He promotes an Aryanised Xtianity based on the Grail Mythos [and so heavily paganised]. He rejects the Roman catholic Church and especially despises St Paul. So this is obviously not the 'Christianity' which you espouse. See this link for clarification: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p335_Whisker.html (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ihr. org%2Fjhr%2Fv04%2Fv04p335_Whisker.html)

Taras Bulba
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 06:15 PM
I have read Rosenberg's 'Myth' myself, have you?

I've read much of it yes.


Rosenberg's book was a best-seller in N-S Germany second only to Mein Kampf. It was placed in the Tannenberg Vault alongside Mein Kampf and Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra.

"Although it is true that Rosenberg's Mythus (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1157&catid=24) sold hundreds of thousands of copies, this figure is not a real relfection of its popularity. As another of Rosenberg's biographers points out, "Secondary schools and institutions of higher education were required to have copies in their libraries; but to what extent these were read cannot be estimated." We can therefore safely discount Robert Pois' assertion that "Rosenberg's view of religion....was widely held by most committed National Socialists." --Richard Steigmann-Gall Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945 pg.93-94



I believe that the reason for this is that Rosenberg was very much ahead of his time;

Hmmn......thats not what Hitler thought btw.

"However, on later occasions Hitler would express regret that Rosenberg had written the book in the first place. According to Albert Speer, Hitler referred to it as "stuff nobody can understand", written by a "narrow-minded Baltic German who thinks in horribly complicated terms...A relaspe into medieval notions!" --Richard Steigmann-Gall Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945 pg.93


much in the book is still being digested by N-S thinkers.

Odd that should occur.

"In rare moments Rosenberg himself even admitted that Hitler ultimately rejected his religion: "[Hitler] set his face from the beginning against racial cultism" --Richard Steigmann-Gall Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945 pg.93


Rosenberg's position on Christianity is fairly clear.

Yes as on page 76 he makes clear that the teachings of Jesus was "thoroughly un-jewish".


He approves of the Manichaean heresy as found in the Cathars [this was ruthlessly persecuted by the Catholic church].

Yes those poor Cathars, even though the Church only started "persecuting" them when the Cathars started to launch violent acts against officials of the Church.

Zyklop
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 06:16 PM
Goebbels, although an enemy of Rosenberg, highly appreciated "The Myth of the Twentieth Century (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1157&catid=24)". Hitler noted in one of his table talks that the book´s first edition hardly was sold and the later editions only became bestsellers after indexing by the catholic church. He also confessed having only read parts of it, because of the challenging and difficult style the book is written in.

See "Goebbels" by David Irving and Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier by Henry Picker.

Taras Bulba
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 06:35 PM
Goebbels, although an enemy of Rosenberg, highly appreciated "The Myth of the Twentieth Century (http://forums.skadi.net/local_links.php?action=jump&id=1157&catid=24)".

I do believe Goebbels referred to Mythus as an "ideological belch". Goebbels was a staunch Christian, although a very anti-clerical Christian at best. In his autobiographical novel Michael, made many elements of his religious thinking known.

Take this excerpt:

"I take the Bible, and all evening long I read the simplest and greatest sermon that has ever been given to mankind: The Sermon on the Mount! 'Blessed are they who suffer persecution for the sake of justice, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven'!"


I especially love this quote of Goebbels:

"Christ is the genius of love, as such the diametrical opposite of Judaism, which is the incarnation of hate....Christ is the first great enemy of the Jews...That is why Judaism had to get rid of him. For he was shaking the very foundations of its future international power. The Jew is the lie personified. When he crucified Christ, he crucified everlasting truth for the first time in history."


Goebbels even stated that the NS state was Christian as opposed to pagan:

"In a speech on December 1935, Goebbels argued that measures to build the Volksgemeinschaft demonstrated that the Nazi State was Christian rather than paganist: "Is it paganist to mount a winter relief drive, thereby feeding millions of people? Is it paganist to give back the Volk its inner freedom? Is it paganist to help poor brothers and neighbors? Is it paganist to restore the ethos of the family? And to give the worker a sense of purpose to his life? Is it paganist to erect a state upon moral principles, to expel Godlessnessm to purify theater and film from the contaimination of Jewish-liberal Marxism - is that paganist?" The theme of practical Christianity implicit in Goebbels' expression "Christ Socialists" was still apparent eight years later: the return to morality; the sancity of the family; brotherly love toward fellow Volkgenossen; the conquest of godlessness and Judeo-Bolshevism. This is especially evident in his reference to the Winter Relief Drive(Winterhilswerk, or WHW), an example of "active Christianity" in which bothj the Nazi State and the Christian churches were involved. "If that is paganist," Goebbels concluded, "then to be sure we are grateful to a Christianity that has done the contrary!" --Richard Steigmann-Gall Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945 pg.124-5

Moody
Saturday, May 15th, 2004, 05:42 PM
The Aryanised Christianity which evolved under the too-short-lived Third Reich would have been ultimately incompatible with the established Christian denominations. In other words, it would have been seen as a 'Heresy', just as Rosenberg's beloved Cathars had been so condemned. So to try and use 'Christianity' as a blanket term in this context is clearly wrong.

Quibbles as to how many buyers of a best-seller actually read the book in question are unquantifiable. Of all the homes with a Bible, how many have actually been read? Rosenberg is read today by National Socialists, that's an important fact which brooks no contradiction.

When in Allied custody Rosenberg wrote that if the NSDAP had survived the war it would almost certainly broke into at least two factions. We can assume that one faction would have emphasised Rosenberg's Mystic Blood and Honour mythos as the core of its beliefs. Indeed, such groupings exist today in a not disimilar way.

Such profound ideas as those of Rosenberg may take centuries to become fully processed before they are expressed in mature form. Essentially, Rosenberg was against the established Christian Churches - against what we might call 'Churchianity'. While he viewed Christ as the Christos, the Aryan Saviour type, he abhorred Saint Paul as the Judaiser of Christianity. Therefore his Christos is not compatible with your orthodox Roman Catholic Churches etc., - But the Christos IS compatible with the pagan traditions of Europa.

As to Goebbels, some Christians out there don't find him so friendly: see this link: http://www.inaxis.org.uk/history/christians.html (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inax is.org.uk%2Fhistory%2Fchristians.html)

The Church of England certainly believed that The Third Reich was anti-Christian!

Julius
Wednesday, May 19th, 2004, 08:01 PM
Hitler was a hyprocrite, then.

From 'Hitler and I' by Otto Strasser:



'And Rosenberg?' asked Hitler, discountenanced by the word 'pornography.' 'What have you got against him?'

'His paganism, Herr Hitler.'

Adolf rose and began to pace the room. 'Rosenberg's ideology is an integral part of NationalSocialism,' he solemnly declared.

' I thought you had made peace with Rome.'

Hitler stopped and looked me in the eyes. 'Christianity is, for the moment, one of the points in the programme I have laid down. But we must look ahead. Rosenberg is a forerunner, a prophet. His theories are the expression of the German soul. A true German cannot condemn them.'

[...]

'Your racial ideas,' I added, 'which you owe to Herr Rosenberg, are not only a flagrant contradiction of the great mission of National-Socialism, which should be the creation of a German nation; they are calculated to bring about the disintegration of the German people.'

Hitler continued as though he were addressing a public meeting. 'What you preach is liberalism, nothing but liberalism. There is only one possible kind of revolution, and it is not economic, or political, or social, but racial, and it will always be the same; the struggle of inferior classes and inferior races against the superior races who are in the saddle. On the day the superior race forgets this law, it is lost. All revolutions - and I have studied them carefully - have been racial. When you read Rosenberg's new book,1 you will understand these things, for it is the most powerful book of its kind, even greater than Houston Chamberlain's Foundations of the Nineteenth Century. [...]'


[1] The Myth of the Twentieth Century (http://forums.skadi.net/%22The%20Myth%20of%20the%20Twentieth%20C entury%22)

Rassenpapst
Thursday, October 25th, 2007, 11:50 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Twentieth_Century

Rosenberg was truly an admirable man. His words were prophetic:


In die heutige Sprache übertragen, sagt der germanische Mythus: in der Hand und in der Art der Frau liegt die Erhaltung unserer Rasse. Aus politischer Knechtung kann sich noch jedes Volk aufraffen, aus rassischer Verseuchung nicht mehr. Gebären die Frauen einer Nation Neger- oder Judenbastarde, geht die Schlammflut von Nigger "kunst" weiter so ungehindert über Europa hinweg wie heute; darf die jüdische Bordell-Literatur weiterhin noch ins Haus gelangen wie jetzt, wird der Syrier vom Kurfürstendamm auch fernerhin als "Volksgenosse" und ehemöglicher Mann betrachtet, dann wird einmal der Zustand eintreten, daß Deutschland (und ganz Europa) in seinen geistigen Zentren nur von Bastarden bevölkert sein wird.

The book is available here: http://ia351406.us.archive.org/1/items/DerMythusDesZwanzigstenJahrhunderts/MicrosoftWord-Mythus.pdf

Loyalist
Friday, October 26th, 2007, 02:35 AM
Here is an English version: http://web.archive.org/web/20020211174958/http://www.ety.com/HRP/booksonline/mythos/mythostoc.htm

Enorthmar
Tuesday, August 7th, 2012, 01:28 AM
Hopefully Rosenberg's eloquently stated prediction from his memoirs will prove true:

As other great ideas knew heights and depths, so National Socialism too will be reborn someday in a new generation steeled by sorrow, and will create in a new form a new Reich for the Germans. Historically ripened, it will then have fused the power of belief with political caution. In its peasant soil it will grow from healthy roots into a strong tree that will bear sound fruit.