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View Full Version : What noses the East Baltids have?



Ulff
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 06:55 PM
What noses have the East Baltids ?

A-C-LA
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 07:06 PM
how can you know that you are east baltic when you don't know what noses they have......

White Preservationist
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 07:21 PM
Low-rooted and protruding. Sometimes upturned and not as long and thin as tipical nordic.

Ulff
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 07:22 PM
I didn't know :D and I don't know still:P

dazed&confused
Friday, May 14th, 2004, 07:35 PM
At least I prefer snub nose (that east baltids are supposed to have) than hooked nose.

gorillazonyoass
Saturday, May 15th, 2004, 01:09 AM
I'd definitely say the east baltic as well as practically any other blonde hair blue eyed and light popolulation in europe(brunn, borreby etc) has the distinct upturned snub nose.

That's why I would say the nordic is partially admixed by dinaric middle eastern strains.

You know, you got people talking about nordics and shit, yet I never see these dinarized types as they say. I see snub, upturned noses to be the rule in all blonde haired blue eyed light populations and thus thats the distinctive trait, not the partially dinarized nose.

Agrippa
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 04:45 PM
Some probably Baltid or Baltid influenced nasal shapes from snyggast (some might have Cromagnoid influence, but I tried to look for Baltid), though I have to say, this time I saw not too much typical examples and a real predominance of Skandonordid/North Atlantid, even classical types on this side...:

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/1/3938991.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/8/4104578.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/7/4094977.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/1/3902381.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/0/3962730.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/5/4053205.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/4/4055014.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/3/3950423.jpg

Right one:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/3/4024643.jpg

Nice example for pred. Skandonordid with very slight Baltid influence:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/0/4113030.jpg

Another one with very slight Baltid influence but pred. Nordid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/2/3999472.jpg

Very beautiful and harmonious mix of Nordid with slight Baltid admixture:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/8/4065198.jpg

Baltid-Nordid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/6/4079356.jpg

Good comparison of rather Baltid and rather Nordid features:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/2/4061292.jpg


Very Baltid/Lappoid nose:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/0/4019630.jpg

Very Baltid/Lappoid nose:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/4/3919654.jpg

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/1/3939421.jpg

Going after my visit on this side today, Swedens youth on this portal consists mainly out of 5 elements: Skandonordid (1st = strongest proportion) Atlantid (5th) Dalofaelid/Cromagnoid (4th) and Baltid (2nd) and foreigners (3rd).
So, if this is representative, and you assume a strong direct Lappid, so that many "Baltids" are just a solution (of Nordid+Lappid/East Baltid), you could say Skandonordid could be really about up to 70 percent...
Skandonordid is really very dominant, and its hard to see that foreigners in this selection are even stronger than local Atlantids and Cromagnoids.

Upturned but straight and high rooted, quite prominent nose in the Nordid range:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/0/4065270.jpg

Nordid type:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/9/4042999.jpg

Nordid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/4/4089964.jpg

Nordid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/4/3947804.jpg

Nordid/Atlantid (with slight Baltid admixture):
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/8/4047168.jpg

Same:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/5/3914795.jpg

Rather Atlantid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/7/4112767.jpg

Rather Atlantid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/6/4039836.jpg

Pred. Cromagnid-Baltid mix:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/5/4078645.jpg

Cromagnid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/5/4100475.jpg

Skandonordid + Baltid and less often +Cromagnoid and Atlantid seems to be the standard of Sweden after this overview. :P

Lissu
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 04:52 PM
...Perhaps Baltid is Cro-Magnid?

Well, everything depends on which way things are classified.

Agrippa
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 05:15 PM
...Perhaps Baltid is Cro-Magnid?

Well, everything depends on which way things are classified.

This soft appearance with those short upturned and concave noses, the rounded-high forehead and rather shortened face and head isnt unreduced Cromagnoid. Furthermore you might notice the higher frequency of somewhat slanted eyes and this nose type, another feature untypical for typical Cromagnids.
Left Baltid, right Nordid:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/2/4061292.jpg
The Baltid face is smaller, shorter and the forehead broad and rounded, in this combination not longer in the Cromagnoid range.

Of course what is Baltid at all? Its a trend which works with Lappoid features = Baltisation in Northern+Eastern Europe similar to Alpinisation in many of the Western European regions. Its a reduction (infantilisation-gracilisation-brachycephalisation) of Cromagnoid types in many regions.

Pred. Skandonordid:
http://www.survivorstvseries.com/agneslaw.jpg

Pred. Cromagnid:
http://home.no.net/duathlon/ironmen/portrett/johnsen.jpg

Comparison Dalofaelid (Cromagnid) with Skandonordid:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=4821&stc=1

Typical East Baltid for comparison:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=4818&stc=1

Cromagnids, partly brachycephalised from Noway. Its possible to argue they show the same trend as well, but looks at the overall robustness and the chin-jaw region in particular.

Lissu
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 06:10 PM
This boy is obviously mixed with something and that ain't lappoid or anything indigenous to Northern Europe! :annoysigr Unfortunately creatures like him are not very rare in Sweden :frown:

http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/0/4019630.jpg

Besides using a website like snyggast as a source of classification pictures isn't very progressive (:laugh:) As you know, there should always be 2 or 3 pictures in different angles - even when trying to search for pictures of different nose types...

Agrippa
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 06:16 PM
This boy is obviously mixed with something and that ain't lappoid or anything indigenous to Northern Europe! :annoysigr Unfortunately creatures like him are not very rare in Sweden :frown:

Not sure about that, what do you think it is? It could be Mongolid but I think thats rather unlikely and he is indigenous...



Besides using a website like snyggast as a source of classification pictures isn't very progressive (:laugh:) As you know, there should always be 2 or 3 pictures in different angles - even when trying to search for pictures of different nose types...

Thats true but thats why I wrote some people could be of a different kind than what I'm saying at the beginning, just in case, because I'm quite sure. There are individuals and perspectives which aren't that clear, but others are and there is no much space for errors. The examples I have chosen are so clear, especially if its about the nasal shape, that it doesnt matter.
But if you know a better side to make such selections, just tell me. :costumed-

Just tell me how this Skandonordid could have a Baltid nose and forehead? :bier:
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/4/4032824.jpg

Or this pred. Skandonordid, just look at the nasal shape, bridge in particular (possible very slight Atlantid admixture):
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/8/4023558.jpg

If a type is relatively typical, even one (acceptable) picture can be enough, only more mixed individuals are impossible to classify that way...

I thought about a split of this thread - make up of Swedens population or nasal shapes in Sweden...because this went to far away from the original topic.

Lissu
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 06:41 PM
Or this pred. Skandonordid, just look at the nasal shape, bridge in particular (possible very slight Atlantid admixture):
http://3www.snyggast.se/ul/8/4023558.jpgThe angle of the picture might cheat you... In fact my nose looks quite similar in the same angle, but it has very round tip, and it's not the narrowest nose in the world either. This can be seen only when looking at it in front.



I thought about a split of this thread - make up of Swedens population or nasal shapes in Sweden...because this went to far away from the original topic.Not a bad idea...

Agrippa
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 06:57 PM
The angle of the picture might cheat you... In fact my nose looks quite similar in the same angle, but it has very round tip, and it's not the narrowest nose in the world either. This can be seen only when looking at it in front.

Mine is simiar, wavy-prominent nose but rather somewhat rounded tip if looking frontal at it. But of course, that is still not the same because of a higher nasal root and narrower, more bony bridge and more prominent nasal profile. Its not only the rounded tip, not even the overall broadness, but the (relative) flatness of the nose, shorter, softer concave shape/bridge and lower root in combination with it. So even if she would have a rounded tip (would be never that round-broad as in my examples above) her nose would be rather Nordid/Atlantid.

Look at this side and picture:
http://www.drkoop.com/ency/93/ImagePages/17243.html
http://www.drkoop.com/Images/ency/fullsize/17243.jpg

Lissu
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 11:56 AM
Not sure about that, what do you think it is? It could be Mongolid but I think thats rather unlikely and he is indigenous... He could be mixed with Turkish - as you know, they are already mixed with almost everything except with Negro perhaps... :speechles Turks are living example what happens when different races mix with each other. To Europeans they look Asian and to Asians they look Europeans :rolleyes: Other example of mixing is Latin America, but with different ingredients.

Sweden has had a lot of immigrants, also outside Europe and there already are 2nd generation non-European immigrants, so why not they could post pictures in snyggast?

Agrippa
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 02:30 PM
Sweden has had a lot of immigrant, also outside Europe and there already is 2nd generation non-European immigrants, so why not they could post pictures in snyggast?

I never denied the possibility, but said that his appearance can be explained by indigenous mixture too.

Agrippa
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 03:05 PM
I think its time to explain racial differences in a context of evolution, I posted it with more pictures, which I can post here as well if there is some interest on Stirpes:
http://forum.stirpes.net/showthread.php?t=2455

Higher bridged and prominent noses are usually correlated with a generally strong facial relief and more masculine-progressive tendency of types.
So there might be general tendency behind it which was strengthened via sexual selection under certain circumstances.

Furthermore a high bridged nose prolongs the way of the air through the nose which might be advantageous in a dry or cold (not extremely though) climate.

So good for a rather temperate climate because the air will be better filtered and heated or lets say controlled via a longer way through the nasal system.

In extreme cold its this vs. the danger of nasal frostbites, though a higher bridge is generally better as long as the nose as a whole is not too protruding.

Infantilisation leads to smaller, less prominent noses as well, which can be explained by the less developed, less mature form and the tendency towards paedomorphism.

There are other factors than heat or cold as well, especially DRY air is important. The air will be better filtered, not as dry and the respiratory tract is better protected, not just from dry air but from infections in general.

Orthognathy and rather high nose bridges-more protuding noses seem to be oftentimes correlated as well.

Europid and Negrid noses from below from John R. Baker ("Race") after Topinard:

Lissu
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 03:25 PM
Typical East Baltid for comparison:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=4818&stc=1
:scratch: I don't think she looks typically East Baltic... The area around her cheekbones and temples do not look typical for East Baltic. Also her skull looks Alpinid in front (round).

I'm not familiar with skull measuring and classification terminology, but I know that alpinid skull is round, East Baltic skull is more angular. The skull of this girl is round (but not in every angle though).

Very pretty girl, but it's funny how her hair is tied - I think it is for making her ears to look less prominent :laugh:

Agrippa
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 04:18 PM
She is Baltid but no extreme example (eye region, cheekbones, not even the nose, nor the chin etc. - Baltisation without too much Lappoid influence) and you should not forget, that she is still quite young looking.

IlPrincipe
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 04:41 PM
Skandonordids are real common in Sweden, thatīs for sure. Having been around in our country for the latest weeks i can assure you that these pics are truly representative for what you see at the streets (either if you choose looking away when it all being much darker ;)).

But i must warn you that itīs very, how to say it, "modern", to dye youīre hair these days, which could make some confusion. And as Lundman were saying, itīs very easy to classify a Skandonordid as a Baltid and vice versa. Be careful :redface:

Agrippa
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 04:53 PM
And as Lundman were saying, itīs very easy to classify a Skandonordid as a Baltid and vice versa.

Interestingly Eickstedt said the opposite for Scandinavia, and that makes sense, simply because in other Nordic-Baltid regions you don't have such a dominance of Skandonordid in the Nordic element. That means you have more variation and Cromagnoid influences which makes it more difficult to make a border against Baltids and the HI, FI, HLI, NI and other features aren't that clear cut between Nordid and Baltid.
But in Sweden the Skandonordid element is so dominant - and Skandonordid is inside the Europid spectrum almost the opposite of a typical East Baltid and more so Lappoid, morphologically speaking, that its easier than elsewhere to decide who's typical Nordid or Baltid, though there are more complicated mixtures of course...I was more than once wrong too, since some Nordid-Baltid mixes can really look more this or that and if you look at siblings or the parents you might be surprised.
But again, its much harder to distinguish more Cromagnid influenced Nordids from Baltids than typical Skandonordids - especially if its about metrical comparisons.