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Shapur
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 08:29 PM
Where is the origin of the bagpipe?

We Iranians have the bagpipe, the scotts and some other nations.
We have the same clothes like scotts.
The bagpipe is by us call Nay Anban.
Actually I learn this instrument and it is really nice.
But what is the real origin?
Who found this instrument?
Thx!

Johannes de León
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 10:37 PM
well, it is very unclear where the bagpipe emerged, nevertheless, i guess most of the scholars think it emerged in mesopotamia, then celts adopted it, then they migrated into europe and spread it's use, even among other tribes!!

PS: later i will post a list of bagpipe variations from region to region, i think you'll find that useful to trace some kind of pattern!

Johannes de León
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 10:46 PM
Here is a list of some of the less known bagpipe variations (i skip the galician bagpipes (or Gaitas), and the highland bagpipes, since they are the most famous ones):




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco6/GaitaMiranda.jpg
Gaita de Miranda (Northeastern Portugal)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco2/Bourbon.gif
CORNEMUSE BOURBONNAISE (France)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco2/BiniouK.gif
BINIOU-BROZ (Brittany)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco2/Boemia.gif
BOËMISCHER BOCK (Boemia)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco3/Chabrett.gif
CHABRETTE (France, Limousin)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco3/Chevrett.gif
CHEVRETTE (France, Occitania)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco4/Duda.gif
DUDA (Ukrania)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco4/Dudelsac.gif
DÜDELSACK (Flanders)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco6/Gaida.gif
GAIDA (Bulgaria)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco6/Gajdy1.gif
GAIDY (Slovakia)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco6/Gajdy2.gif
GAIDY (Tchekia)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco6/GranZamp.gif
GRAN ZAMPOGNA (Italy, Tessin)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco6/Hungara.gif
GAJDY (Hungary)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco7/Koza.gif
KOZA (Romania)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco7/Lowland.gif
LOWLAND BAGPIPE (Scotland, Lowlands)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco8/Musette.gif
MUSETTE (France)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco11/Sackpipa.gif
SACKPIPA (Sweden)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco11/Surdulin.gif
SURDULINA (Italy, Molise region)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco11/Surle.gif
SURLE (Greece)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco12/Tulum.gif
TULUM (Turkey)




http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco13/Zampogna.gif
MIH (Dalmatia e Croatia)



http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco13/Zampogn3.gif
ZAMPOGNA (Italy, Abruzzos)

Johannes de León
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 10:48 PM
btw, my avatar depicts a medieval bagpiper (Gaiteiro as it is known in Iberia) from the time of Alfonso X (1221-1284)... it is an illumination from his magnificent book Cantigas de Santa Maria...

Milesian
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 10:52 PM
Don't forget the Uileann pipes of Ireland, which isn't blown

Johannes de León
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 10:59 PM
Uilleann
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

cut/pasted from the Bagpipes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagpipes) page

The next most common type is the Irish or Uilleann (pronounced illin) bagpipe; this or the Northumbrian bagpipe is generally claimed to be the most developed bagpipe in existence. An older name for this instrument was the Union pipes; the earliest uses of this in print date from the late 18th century. Why they were called Union pipes isn't known; theories include the union of sounds the various pipes obtain, or the Act of Union of 1803 (which post-dates the earliest usage), or to the pipes being used all through the Union itself. "Uilleann" means "elbow" in Irish Gaelic; it was first connected with the pipes in reference to a line in Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice, which mentions a "woolen" bagpipe. An antiquarian speculated that this was actually in reference to an "elbow" bagpipe, thus the uilleann pipe. This notion was picked up by a member of the Gaelic League, W.H. Grattan Flood, who at the beginning of the 20th century declared uilleann pipes to be the correct name, and Union pipes a corruption of it into English. This theory is no longer considered valid by modern researchers, none of whom consider Flood a reliable source of information. This bellows-blown pipe plays a two octave diatonic scale in D major; it also has a C natural, allowing tunes to be played in G. With the addition of extra keys to the chanter, other modes can also be used, although these are less common. The most commonly added keys are a C and an F natural key. The Uilleann pipes also have three drones, set in a common stock, all tuned to three different octaves of D, and up to three regulators which are effectively a kind of chanter with keys, designed to be played by the wrist. Accomplished players can use these to provide a limited but powerfully impressive chordal accompaniment. Often Uillean pipes are found without any drones or regulators; these sets are called somewhat misleadingly "practice sets". In fact, many pipers use these sets for their entire piping careers. Another common choice is to have only the drones, without regulators. This is known as a half-set. A final occasional variant, the three-quarter set, omits the bass regulator, which is less commonly used.

http://www.daye1.com/upfulset.gif

@ Milesian: yes, it isn't blown, it works like the french Musette with a pedal that bombs the air into the bag!

Shapur
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 11:01 PM
Here a Bandari(south Iranian) with a Nay Anban!

Johannes de León
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 11:09 PM
Here a Bandari(south Iranian) with a Nay Anban! nice picture, is that a sheep's fur? if yes, do iranians use sheep's that big to build bagpipes??

Shapur
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Here a sound sample I created for you! ;)
I save it as flash(the quality is not so high, this is because it is only 122kb big :D )! Extract the file and feel this nice Iranian song! :P

Shapur
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 11:21 PM
nice picture, is that a sheep's fur? if yes, do iranians use sheep's that big to build bagpipes??
I'm not sure but I think yes. What I wondered was when my oncle send me a picture of his self. I asked why he wear scottish clothes.
He said no this is Iranian clothes. I was shocked when I heard this.
We have 100% the same clothes and the instrument looks also the same.
In 2 months I get my own Nay Anban! :D
This will funny, because Nay Anban hear in some ways other as the normal bagpipe.

Bye!

Johannes de León
Monday, May 10th, 2004, 11:26 PM
We have 100% the same clothes and the instrument looks also the same. That is quite interesting, here in Iberia, we use no such thing as kilts or whatever... tomorow i will post pictures of the tradicional clothes here... i'm not sure, but i guess nowhere in europe the clothes are much similar to the scottish ones.

i will investigate that, but now i have to go, GMT here...!

Thanks for the info!

Johannes de León
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 07:04 PM
pictures of tradicional dresses of Gaiteiros (Iberian Bagpipers):

Gaiteiro Galego (Galicia, Spain):
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12046

Gaiteiro Transmontano (Trás-os-Montes, Portugal):
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12047

Gaiteiro Mirandęs (Miranda do Douro, Protugal):
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12048

Mirandese Traditional Clothes (Miranda do Douro, Protugal):
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12049

Gaiteiros Galego-Minhotos (this is where i live! the frontier between northern Portugal, and Galicia):
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12050

Shapur
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 08:14 PM
Thx @ Johannes de León!

I think the bagpipe is an Aryan instrument. ;)

Johannes de León
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 08:35 PM
Thx @ Johannes de León!

I think the bagpipe is an Aryan instrument. ;)
well, you are welcome!

yes, perhaps an Indo-European (i prefer to say indo-european rather than Aryan) instrument!

Vestmannr
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 08:49 PM
Bagpipes were probably first used in Scotland/Ireland by Scandinavian settlers. Our ethnic instrument before then was the harp or crwth (bowed harp). Same with the kilt, invented by an Englishman because his wife was fainting at the sight of Scotsmen working in naught but their shirts. Our traditional Celtic dress is a linen shirt with long sleeves, that comes down to the knees ... and maybe a cloak/mantle thrown over that (leine and brat/feile beg). Fighting 'naked' as the Caesar meant it, probably referred not to full nakedness... but the traditional practice of dropping one's outmantle and going into combat sans armour, onlydressed in one's 'night shirt'.

Of course, we in the Celtic lands did have wind instruments before the bagpipes. There are those wonderful Irish Bronze Horns that have been copied, and used for performances in recent years. And cow horns, bone whistles/flutes similar to what is still used in Scandinavia seems to be a common find.

Johannes de León
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 09:03 PM
Bagpipes were probably first used in Scotland/Ireland by Scandinavian settlers.
please, can you provide some dates??

i serously doubt that, i never have read that the bagpipes originated in Scandinavia or in Scotland, i have read inumerous texts about the subject, and never read such thing, but i am always eager to learn more...

this may be a common mistake because the fame of bagpipes in Scotland, then, people tend to associate it to bagpipes' origin.

Vestmannr
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 09:36 PM
I think you misunderstand me. The sentence referred to the first use of the bagpipe in Scotland... the bagpipe is not Scottish, Celtic, or Pictish in origin. It is Mesopotamian or Iranian plateau in origin. Every bit I've seen on ethnomusicology claims this. From what we can tell (archaeology of Britian is my thing), there was no such thing as bagpipes in Scotland until the Angles and Vikings came. It is an imported instrument, and is only considered Scottish primarily because of its martial use. Again, the real cultural musical instrument of the Gael and the Brython is the harp.

Johannes de León
Tuesday, May 11th, 2004, 09:41 PM
I think you misunderstand me. The sentence referred to the first use of the bagpipe in Scotland... the bagpipe is not Scottish, Celtic, or Pictish in origin. It is Mesopotamian or Iranian plateau in origin. Every bit I've seen on ethnomusicology claims this. From what we can tell (archaeology of Britian is my thing), there was no such thing as bagpipes in Scotland until the Angles and Vikings came. It is an imported instrument, and is only considered Scottish primarily because of its martial use. Again, the real cultural musical instrument of the Gael and the Brython is the harp.
oops, sorry, yep, i have misunderstood your previous post! :thumbup

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, May 15th, 2004, 10:02 AM
Where ever they came from, I wish they would go back. Bagpipes sound like a vaccum cleaner on steroids.

Johannes de León
Saturday, May 15th, 2004, 11:16 AM
Where ever they came from, I wish they would go back. Bagpipes sound like a vaccum cleaner on steroids.
LOL, nice description, well, whatever, my favourite instrument is whitout any doubt the 'vaccum cleaner on steroids'... but not the Scottish ones... in matter of fact i don't like very much the Scottish Pipes, i prefer the Galician ones!

Shapur
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 04:42 PM
I created extra for you a small mp3!
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=14550

This is my Nay Anban. The voice is normally very cool.
And I would say one of the best bagpipe kinds of the world.
You will hear that sometimes the voice is very strange.
This is because I play it only for 3-4 weeks and I can not hit every note.

Bye ;)

Johannes de León
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 06:38 PM
I created extra for you a small mp3!
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=14550

This is my Nay Anban. The voice is normally very cool.
And I would say one of the best bagpipe kinds of the world.
You will hear that sometimes the voice is very strange.
This is because I play it only for 3-4 weeks and I can not hit every note.

Bye ;)
For someone who only plays for 3/4 weeks, it's great... The sound is very good too. It's kind of hard to keep the same pressure all the time isn't it? :D

Take a look at my bagpipes, http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=12361
I hope you to comment on that.

i play since i was 5 y/o, so i am much more experienced, don't get scared, you will reach that level, sooner or later, the only thing that will ever improve the way you play, is practice. :)

Shapur
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 06:43 PM
For someone who only plays for 3/4 weeks, it's great... The sound is very good too. It's kind of hard to keep the same pressure all the time isn't it? :D

Take a look at my bagpipes, http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=12361
I hope you to comment on that.

i play since i was 5 y/o, so i am much more experienced, don't get scared, you will reach that level, sooner or later, the only thing that will ever improve the way you play, is practice. :)
I can not hit everytime the notes. It is very difficult for me because there are 12 holes and you must close 2 holes with one finger.
The first part is ok but then I make mistakes so the voice become bad.

I have tried to download your mp3 files but it doesn`t work!
;(

Shapur
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 06:46 PM
http://www.at-tambur.com/Imagens/Banco12/Tulum.gif

This is a Iranian Nay Anban. There is writen turkish but everything what the Turks have is of Iranian"kurdish" origin.
:D

Johannes de León
Saturday, June 19th, 2004, 06:51 PM
I have tried to download your mp3 files but it doesn`t work!
;(
Well, that's odd. perhaps it's a codec problem. what error do you get?

I went to a studio to record some more songs some weeks ago, i hope to get the songs sooner, so i can post them too. :D

Shapur
Thursday, June 24th, 2004, 12:38 AM
Well, that's odd. perhaps it's a codec problem. what error do you get?

I went to a studio to record some more songs some weeks ago, i hope to get the songs sooner, so i can post them too. :D
I can not download them. :(