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Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Tuesday, December 2nd, 2003, 01:29 AM
Yeah, that's my entire point. Not metaphysical abstractions or God or anything like that. Just instinct. Life contains its own meaning. Happiness is the victory of the instincts through the mind.

But often following your instincts is seen as negative behaviour (ie. the stigmas attatched to many forms of hedonism such as promiscuous sex -to name the obvious one). And I think it is safe to say that following your instincts is very frequently engaging in some hedonistic activity. Well, maybe there is a different definition of instinct besides eat, sleep, procreate and follow your whims that I am missing? :( Granted ignoring these base instincts frequently could definately lead to some inner turmoil (or starvation lol)...but can you really find meaning in them more than anything else, and does happiness automatically imply that there is meaning? Or am I missing what you mean by instincts here...

Jack
Tuesday, December 2nd, 2003, 02:23 AM
But often following your instincts is seen as negative behaviour (ie. the stigmas attatched to many forms of hedonism such as promiscuous sex -to name the obvious one). And I think it is safe to say that following your instincts is very frequently engaging in some hedonistic activity. Well, maybe there is a different definition of instinct besides eat, sleep, procreate and follow your whims that I am missing? :( Granted ignoring these base instincts frequently could definately lead to some inner turmoil (or starvation lol)...but can you really find meaning in them more than anything else, and does happiness automatically imply that there is meaning? Or am I missing what you mean by instincts here...

Philippe Rushton put forward the idea that whites and Asians have a certain 'reproductive strategy' he called 'k' - quality. Basically long term relationships, a handful of kids, lots of time and investment, etc. Love is an instinct ;) Hate is its other side. While everyone does have the promiscuous thing going, for whites and Asians the quality tendency is pretty much built in because of natural selection in freezing cold weather in north Eurasia where you need to invest time, plan long into the future, etc., in order to survive and pass on your genes. Promiscuity might make blacks happy but I'm not sure it brings happiness (eudaimonia = a live well lived) for whites or Asians. By meaning I meant a sense of value, importance, and happiness (different happiness for different races, I think) is a sense of acquiring/becoming/achieving that value.

Moody
Tuesday, May 25th, 2004, 06:39 PM
Also, 'hedonism' to the ancients was not the greedy and indulgent behavior we think of it being today.
Rather, in his quest for 'pleasure', the hedonist sought to avoid pain and unhappiness; like the Buddhist he realised that pleasure itself [as in desire] brought pain in its train.

So hedonism tended towards an ascetic neutrality.
This is the paradox of hedonism;

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Paradox%20of%20hedonism

http://www.molloy.edu/academic/philosophy/sophia/ancient_lit/happiness/epicureanpic13.jpg

Iconöclast
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:29 AM
All forms of hedonism are pig ethics.

Siegmund
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:40 AM
All forms of hedonism are pig ethics.
I tend to agree. There is little nobility or dignity in the pursuit of pleasure as an end in itself.

Jack
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 05:03 AM
Can someone define hedonism, then?

Iconöclast
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 05:06 AM
Can someone define hedonism, then?

The pursuit of pleasure above all else.

anti-climacus
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 12:05 AM
Utilitarianism is too daft for a functioning society to live in. American Media/the New York, L.A., and Washington D.C. version of America is hedonism in it's prime.

Jack
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 01:00 AM
The pursuit of pleasure above all else.
And what type of pleasure? Immediate sensual joy, or eudaimonia type happiness?

Iconöclast
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 01:07 AM
And what type of pleasure? Immediate sensual joy, or eudaimonia type happiness?

Modern hedonism is the "sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll" type. Epicurean hedonism is more "cautious" pleasure, which rejects things such as mathematics as it does not relate to pleasure. Utilitarianism is the greatest amount of pleasure for the greatest amount of people--I shouldn't have to explain the flaws in that.

Jack
Friday, November 5th, 2004, 02:39 AM
Modern hedonism is the "sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll" type. Epicurean hedonism is more "cautious" pleasure, which rejects things such as mathematics as it does not relate to pleasure. Utilitarianism is the greatest amount of pleasure for the greatest amount of people--I shouldn't have to explain the flaws in that.
Of course not, utilitarianism is the morality that essentially underlines Communist advocacy of proletarian revolution. I would say pleasure in the sense of refinement, pursuit of excellence, and living a virtuous life would be a kind of hedonism that should be encouraged, as opposed to modern hedonism.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 12:51 AM
Pleasure and what exactly is the pursuit of it is based on perspective like everything else. And "pleasure in the sense of refinement, pursuit of excellence, and living a virtuous life" is relative as well. Whose standards of excellence? Drug abusing sexaholics might feel there lives are quite excellent and that they have achieved very much. The individual pursuit of excellence and virtue seem to stem from arrogance, conceit, and self-righteousness. I think that unless standards are defined within a group/community that the pursuit of anything is essentially hedonism and that our society does not really allow anyone to not be a hedonist. We are too individualistic and have too many choices in life (from what kind of underwear to buy to what to choose for a career).

Phlegethon
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 07:59 PM
I prefer being unhappy.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 09:45 PM
I prefer being unhappy.

I picture a cold and lonely hedonist, standing in the rain.

Phlegethon
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:21 PM
I may have been a lot of things, but definitely never hedonistic.

The rain has turned into snow, though.

Ventrue
Sunday, December 11th, 2005, 05:49 AM
I come to think of something Oswald Spengler said: "Socialism is the capitalism of the left."

With which he meant: both the left and the right simply cater to the selfish, short-sighted desires of their constituents, and neither side is interested in the advancement of the whole.

I have come to believe that hedonism - "All for me and those closest to me, and what do I care how that affects the future of my people?" - is the naturally dominant state of mind in a democracy. This creates an immature, selfish, despicable population - not worthy of being called a "people" anymore, it is simply a "population."

We need a one-party state. That is the logical way to run a dictatorship in modern times. Only then can the White race get back to business. A nationalist dictatorship that rejects hedonism, with a regulated market economy - dammit, we are being beaten by the Chinese in this! The Chinese, people! Those rice-pickers used to be the lapdogs of the British Empire and what have you. Now we are hedonists, and they are given time to recover. I don't blame them, I blame us.

anti-climacus
Monday, December 19th, 2005, 10:38 PM
And what type of pleasure? Immediate sensual joy, or eudaimonia type happiness?

I'm fairly sure he means the type of "hedonism" that some gnostic fundamentalists practiced. Pleasure in the flesh.