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Oxygen
Thursday, March 19th, 2009, 06:55 PM
In my opinion the most dynamic female grappler in the world is Satoko Shinashi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf9W9luyxHw&feature=related

Psychonaut
Thursday, March 19th, 2009, 07:13 PM
As a grappling instructor for my unit in the Army, it's my professional opinion that grappling is not at all an appropriate combat technique to teach women to rely on. While it's true that a remarkably skilled grappler can execute techniques without much strength under ideal conditions, the vast majority of people (especially women) who learn a martial art for the purpose of self defense are not going to attain this level of skill and will not be using it under ideal conditions at all. The biggest problem with women doing gappling is the strength difference. Men are stronger than women, and in close combat (unless you are an expert) the stronger opponent will tend to dominate. Given that your average woman will never be as strong as your average attacker, I think that it's far more beneficial to teach women techniques that will allow them to quickly escape an attacker rather than trying to grapple with him.

Oxygen
Thursday, March 19th, 2009, 07:43 PM
As a grappling instructor for my unit in the Army, it's my professional opinion that grappling is not at all an appropriate combat technique to teach women to rely on. While it's true that a remarkably skilled grappler can execute techniques without much strength under ideal conditions, the vast majority of people (especially women) who learn a martial art for the purpose of self defense are not going to attain this level of skill and will not be using it under ideal conditions at all. The biggest problem with women doing gappling is the strength difference. Men are stronger than women, and in close combat (unless you are an expert) the stronger opponent will tend to dominate. Given that your average woman will never be as strong as your average attacker, I think that it's far more beneficial to teach women techniques that will allow them to quickly escape an attacker rather than trying to grapple with him.
I have to disagree with you on that one, having trained boxing, thai, mma, sw and bjj it is my opinion that women benefit the most from grappling because of less physical strength. Grappling lessens the advantage of physical strength in a much grater way than throwing punches and kicks, also women are usually more fragile because of finer bones and thus breaks hands and legs easier when punching and kicking. Another factor is that many times the violence is accompanied by attempted sexual assault where grappling skill is essential to be able to handle (get out of) the situation.

This may sound strange for some people but I assure you that no matter how strong you are you will not be able to pin Kyra Gracie to the ground, No way! And as far as how long it takes for something to work in a live situation, no one can ever say because it depends on the situation but many women will never be able to knock me out with a punch even if I let them hit me no matter how much they train but 99% of women will be able to choke me out after training 6 months.

Of course its always better to avoid a situation but sometimes you cant.

rainman
Thursday, March 19th, 2009, 08:15 PM
I've studied martial arts a lot in my youth. And I can tell you it's a little known fact that women have just as much strength if not more in their legs than men. Yet their upper body has practically nothing.

For some reason it seems like the Asian martial arts are more oriented towards women with their kicks and emphasis on technique rather the strength.

Grappling is not a realistic form of self defense period unless it is complimented with good striking skills. You can defend yourself with practically no grappling skills, but the opposite is not true.

Almost all of your commercial schools will not teach you good martial arts though. They teach a watered down version for the public. Which is a good thing you don't want to teach some criminal deadly techniques right from the start. But with all this UFC stuff there is this popular myth spreading that grappling is a realistic street fighting system when its not. True jiu-jitsu has a saying "there is no jiu-jitsu without striking". Meaning in the battlefield if you want to throw someone or put them into a hold you have to hit them first to stun them or wear them down. It's easy to do all these commercial techniques on someone who is complying and letting you do it but when someone is really fighting you it will be impossible without hitting them first.

Maybe some world class jiu-jitsu champion who has trained every day of his life for 10 years can beat some guy on the street with no skills but I mean realistically besides some absurd situation like that grappling isn't a great self defense to learn. The only reason the police and military like to focus on it is that you can subdue an opponent without really hurting them and have more control of the situation. If someone is trying to mug you forget about protecting them I would go for max damage. I think the other main thing is you study it to know how to get out of it. That way if someone gets you in a hold you understand it and can remove yourself from it.

Good grappling and good striking doesn't rely on a lot of strength. It relies on using skill and knowledge- fighting smarter. A well trained woman could knock someone out or even inflict serious jiu-jitsu damage though it is dangerous- being strong is always a plus.

I'll give you a quick example- a big strong man grabs you and puts you in a headlock. If you can get a hold of a finger they are easily broken. It doesn't take hercules to break a little tiny finger bone. No matter how big you are you have such weak points. You can inflict serious pain easily. It's just a matter of knowledge and skill. Yet any real warrior knows this (and they usually wont teach you this in martial arts school) no matter how good you are: fighting is a game of chance. Don't expect to go into battle and leave unscarred or even alive! Better just to avoid dangerous situations.

Psychonaut
Friday, March 20th, 2009, 06:34 AM
And I can tell you it's a little known fact that women have just as much strength if not more in their legs than men.

That's not true at all. If it were then men and women of the same weight would be able to squat roughly equivalent weights, right? Even if we look at world class athletes that isn't true though. Take for example the two strongest male and female squatters in the 198 lb. bracket: Sam Byrd and Becca Swanson. Their record squats are 1050.0 and 804.7 lbs. respectively; she's hardly equivalent.

Source 1 (http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/198-men), Source 2 (http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/198-women)

rainman
Friday, March 20th, 2009, 07:27 AM
That's true enough. At any rate the difference is greater in the upper body. Just from my own experience working with people in martial arts, just average people, women's upper body isn't even comparable to a man but the legs there isn't a great difference there. Which is really surprising because you don't expect a woman to be that strong.

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-157805.html

We are dealing with world records here. Men are capable of building more muscle when they pump iron because of testosterone. What about a more normal person?

"Although boys overall were 12.4% (D) and 13.0% (ND) stronger than girls, differences between boys and girls in their average hamstrings PT/BM were not significant"

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=233177

Women have to carry their own weight and a baby's when they get pregnant. Their physiology is made for such. Though an overall 12% difference is pretty significant I guess.

Anyway as said strength isn't everything when dealing with martial arts.

edit: thank you for correcting me. Now that I think on it it is an absurd premise. Though these days I can't tell the difference between a man and a woman usually they have become the same :-)

Neophyte
Friday, April 17th, 2009, 01:10 AM
If you are planning to fight a single unarmed opponent on a soft padded surface surrounded by flexible ropes, grappling might be for you. Otherwise you should learn something else.

My recommendation for the ladies is a push dagger. Easy to use, easy to retain, and a bitch to face. And since it only takes about 5 Newtons of force (0.5 kg) to push a sharp point into the human body even the weakest of females can do it to the biggest strongest men. Try your grappling moves aginst that.