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Nachtengel
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 05:06 PM
Some countries' Holocaust denial crimes don't only refer to the National Socialist alleged crimes, but to Communist ones too.

Czech Republic:


261a The person who publicly denies, puts in doubt, approves or tries to justify nazi or communist genocide or other crimes of nazis or communists will be punished by prison of 6 months to 3 years.

Poland:

Article 55
He who publicly and contrary to facts contradicts the crimes mentioned in Article 1, clause 1 shall be subject to a fine or a penalty of deprivation of liberty of up to three years. The judgment shall be made publicly known.

Article 1
This Act shall govern:

a) crimes perpetrated against persons of Polish nationality and Polish citizens of other ethnicity, nationalities in the period between 1 September 1939 and 31 December 1989:

- Nazi crimes,
- communist crimes,
- other crimes constituting crimes against peace, crimes against humanity or war crimes

Should it be acceptable to deny crimes committed by the Communist regimes?

Cythraul
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 05:09 PM
I voted "no", but really I think the same set of rules needs to apply to all political ideologies - if at all. So whilst the situation could be better, it could also be worse.

Eoppoyz
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 05:14 PM
No, I support free speech.

Deary
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 07:33 PM
Thoughts should not be crimes.

jamini
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 08:01 PM
So Czechs and Poles are going to send leftist students to jail for Holodomor denial? While I don't agree with these or Holocaust denial laws, I do look forward to reading news stories about those who face persecution under these new commie crime denial laws.

Sigurd
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 08:05 PM
In the support of historical revisionism and the possibility of even minor adjustments made by historians to matters considered the "official truth", I believe that no historically viable view should be outlawed, neither the denial of NS crimes nor Communist crimes.

It is thus not only a question of upholding Voltaire's principles of Free Speech, but also a question of kindling/stifling historical debate: If it is indeed the truth, then it will stand the test of time and if certain parts of it are untrue, then we are given the possibility to exchange our old knowledge with new and neutral findings. It is thus in the interest of academic debate as well as general knowledge and historical truth-finding to allow debate thereupon.

That being said - if the denial of one is illegal, logically the law should also include the denial of the other, and as such I applaud the countries in question for not having one-sided incisions into free historical debate. But since I don't believe that f.ex. Holocaust denial should be illegal either, it becomes a moot point.

If we were going to legalise Holocaust denial but outlawed the denial of Communist crimes, then we would be no single bit better than the current establishment, really - and we should not make the mistakes that others have made, we need to make our own mistakes, there. ;)

Ragnar Lodbrok
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 08:13 PM
I agree that thoughts should not be crimes and that freedom of speech is important, the line just needs to be drawn when it comes to sedition, internet spam and pornography.:thumbup

Liemannen
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 08:21 PM
No, there should be no laws restricting peoples opinions, or their ability to express those opinions.

Patrioten
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 09:27 PM
Even though there aren't any laws forbidding the denial of Communist crimes, and it's barely even mentioned in the educational system, most people, in my experience, still believe that quite a few people were killed under various communist regimes (they might lack knowledge and information about these crimes but that is an entirely different matter). There are certainly those that want to claim as few victims as possible (mostly communists themselves naturally), but I fail to see that they would have any sort of detrimental impact or effect on society at large by doing so. The fact that communism and its history isn't stigmatised in the same way that national socialism is, certainly contributes to its albeit marginal public presence whilst national socialism in our society for the most part is something which is hidden or at least out of public view. But it's not as though Communism as a result of this comparatively benign treatment has become wildly popular beyond a limited group of people, and it certainly doesn't pose any threat against the foundations of society.

I fail to see why holocaust revisionism or even flat out denial would be any more dangerous or worrysome than gulag revisionism/denial. There aren't any laws against questioning either the holocaust, the gulags or any other historical event or period to date in Sweden and I would like to keep it that way.