PDA

View Full Version : What's Wrong with the Nationalist Movement?



exit
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 02:40 AM
Boredom. Failure of message. Take for example one of the nationalist movements' biggest sites, stormfront, where in the banner one clicks to get to a page that reads "Diversity, can you afford it?" (http://www.whitenationalism.com/div/Diversity.html)

Now who really wants to measure everything against IQ scores (especially in articles that are poorly written like the one referenced here) and more importantly who really wants to spend their time studying a bunch of graphs detailing god knows what and which isn't really essential to the nationalist cause... nor does it inspire the reader to any political action! But this type of idealistic message is what passes for nationalism today, which is why it always fizzes out before it catches on. No one really understands the psychology of people today or how to attract the masses to rally to their cause.

There is however no shortage of complainers ready to blame everyone and everything for their own failures. Let us compare the white nationalist movement against any non-white nationalist movement or even the Islamic movement and it is clear for all to see that they do not share the same incompitence. I really do not place any hope or trust in this movement because I know that I'll end up being disappointed as usual. After ten years or so all that has really happened is the same old whining about the same stupid problems which only get worse. Democracy, political activism, voting, debates, propaganda, the media... all of this is a disgrace and a pathetic waste of time.

Most of us don't even believe in this garbage yet we are acting like we must fight to preserve it! Democracy is for the dogs and people only get dumber in time regardless of "IQ tests" (IQ is really only used to create technology and machines which provide endless distractions from the Real). There is nothing more to say that everyone doesn't already know... There is no point to this movement except watching the hands of the clock tick down. :thumbdown

Sissi
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 03:06 AM
The IQ measurements and data are probably there because the mainstream society and media are politically correct and some objective studies might find answers which don't suit all races, because we aren't all equal. Nationalists consider it is their duty to show the other side of the story, so that people can judge for themselves. It's important to know who we are and what we are too.

I'm not losing hope just yet. Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get any better.

Odhinns_daughter
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 03:21 AM
Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get any better.

This is what I've been thinking has to happen as well.

InvaderNat
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 09:52 PM
First of all Stormfront aren't the "nationalist movement", they are anti-semites who incorrectly indentify jews as the main cause of the European world's demographic and cultural decline. It is Neo-Liberal-Marxists who create the delusion known as 'multiculturalism' and they come from all groups of people - not just jews.

The Nationalist Movements that can actually make a difference are the European and Russian Nationalist parties/movements who continue to grow in support and raise the important issues that the EUSSR wont tell the public.

As for the USA its nationalist movements are too 'nazi-orientated'; at least in the minds of the general public. Additionally I think their demographic collapse is already too advanced for them to recover - although they might manage to save the North Mid-West, Canada & Alaska.

Cythraul
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 10:39 PM
I'm currently engaged in a debate on another forum with several liberals - some of which are immigrants, or of immigrant descent to Britain themselves. I don't know why I bother - perhaps simply because I enjoy debating and trying to understand why the other side thinks the way it does.

But one thing has become very apparent. There are an awful lot of people who believe so strongly in the multicultural ideal that we might as well designate Globalism a religion. Seriously. The defensiveness is cult-like, irrational and uniform. In their eyes we are scum - no matter how intelligently, civilly or rationally we put forward our point of view.

The Nationalist movement is going to have to pull out all the stops and climb to new heights to even have a hope of breaking the status-quo, I'm afraid.

forkbeard
Monday, February 16th, 2009, 11:00 PM
Nationalism has always been the enemy of the White peoples. It always gets subverted and used by the capitalist class to enrich themselves at the expense of other peoples children being turned into corpses. If Germanic peoples in particular and White people on the whole want to survive long term they have to be internationalist. Their prime loyalty being only to their race, wherever it is. Not to their nation, land, geography, flag, government, the society in which they live, economic system etc.

What is needed is a racial religion that is equivalent to Judaism.
http://www.rahowa.com/creativity1.html (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.raho wa.com%2Fcreativity1.html)

A Religion has the advantage in that it can survive long term, survive internal conflict, ambition and political/ military/ financial collapse and protect its people just as Judaism has. Ultimately any political achievement can only be temporary. Any Nationalist triumph only temporary before a fall.

I would support the BNP as a nationalist party in general but only because thats all there feasably is, hoping something better might come later or from it. I have never really looked at Stromfront but by accident. It just seemed too big and full of pointless discussion.
The bottom line for our racial survival has to be just a personal commitment to have lots of children. At least that way the threat of extinction is delayed, personal duty fulfilled along with a generally fulfilling and happy life. If we take this as the golden rule we should be fine.

exit
Tuesday, February 17th, 2009, 05:39 PM
What is needed is a racial religion that is equivalent to Judaism.
http://www.rahowa.com/creativity1.html


The pseudo-religions of "creativity" or whatever they call it and "christian identity" are two of the most disgusting things about the nationalist movement.

Bärin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 02:50 AM
First of all Stormfront aren't the "nationalist movement", they are anti-semites who incorrectly indentify jews as the main cause of the European world's demographic and cultural decline. It is Neo-Liberal-Marxists who create the delusion known as 'multiculturalism' and they come from all groups of people - not just jews.

The Nationalist Movements that can actually make a difference are the European and Russian Nationalist parties/movements who continue to grow in support and raise the important issues that the EUSSR wont tell the public.

As for the USA its nationalist movements are too 'nazi-orientated'; at least in the minds of the general public. Additionally I think their demographic collapse is already too advanced for them to recover - although they might manage to save the North Mid-West, Canada & Alaska.
Now that you brought this up, I'm going to make some comment.

Here's what I think is wrong with the nationalist "movement". Quoting from another forum (not Stormfront):


Overt obsessiveness about Jews is a lowbrow characteristic that I've seen on many boards before over the years. It doesn't make for a good entrance to this forum, because it reminds me of posters like [name], etc. All they want to post about is "jews" and how much we should hate them. If we don't want to comply, then we are pro-Zionist conspirators or worse.

I sincerely hope you do not fall into this category [name]. My apologies if I am misreading what you are posting. ... [Forum name] is about European community building. We are appreciative of European culture and what matters to us. 200 more threads like these, and we will be indistinguishable from [other forum name] and other lowbrow Nazi fora, and we will start to lose our unique character. That is what I want to avoid.

I think our focus should be less on attacking those of other cultures and more on supporting our own!

Nationalists want to attract more moderates on their side and they sacrifice the ones with less mainstream views for it. I've heard this said by Skadi members too, and by members of 100s other fora out there. Like we need to focus on our culture and stop pointing fingers at foreigners, whether Jews, Negroes or Muslims. Why can't we have both, moderates and radicals? The kind of thinking, that we're the sole responsibles for our problems and the immigrants are just a consequence is a failed kind of thinking from my point of view.

The ones who think nationalists are going to go far and accomplish something just by discussing their culture, art and the like are way way wrong. At worst the result of that is "nationalists" like the ones who thought Chinese immigrants to Europe who wear Lederhosen and sign the national anthem are more European than Europeans who dress modernly and carry iPods. "Us" doesn't exist without a comparison to "them", because to see what makes "us" unique and see why our culture is worth preserving we must be aware of what it would be like if "them" would be converting us to theirs. Islam, Judaism, multiculturalism, whatever it is. For every beautiful there is an ugly. For every smart there is a dumb. Without the ugly and dumb, we wouldn't have the notions of beautiful and smart. Nationalism has to have twofold focuses. One, the most important at this moment is to close the gates to more aliens. To convince everyone why we don't want more of them here. How are we supposed to do that if nationalists are supposed to censor theirselves because they don't want to look like "lowbrow forums" and other garbage? It won't work. No, discussing the Talmud or Qu'ran shouldn't be frowned on, because everything we need to know about the alien is in there. Who doesn't believe the Muslims are determined to conquer Europe should read the Qu'ran. It's all in there.

Psychonaut
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 03:56 AM
Here's what I think is wrong with the nationalist "movement". Quoting from another forum (not Stormfront):

First off, I think you might've misunderstood [other forum member]'s point, but, regardless, if you entire conception of nationalism, folkism, etc. is anti-[insert group here], then you end up being left with a generation of "activists" who know exactly what it is they're fighting against but have no idea what it is they're fighting to preserve. It is important to note problems and deficiencies and to honestly confront them; but more important is to have a full understanding of who we are and what it is we're preserving. The later cannot be done in a Stormfront-esque atmosphere of constant negativity, where every thread is about what's wrong with [insert group here].

Siebenbürgerin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 04:10 AM
I'm interested in cultural discussions. I've always had special interest for the history of Germanic peoples, hence I've chosen to study history and write my bachelor's paper on the Gothic presence in Romania for example. It's natural in my view for peoples on forums to discuss such things as the IQ differences between populations, or folk cultures, costumes, festivals, architecture and so forth.

But it's natural too to discuss immigration and non-European groups and habits. We can't prevent it. The users who frequent forums are a minority of the population who is sick and tired of political correctness and they need a place to express their views and vent their frustration.

I'm not expecting everyone to discuss the runes or Herder's philosophy. In my view the average peoples - the masses - don't make the cultural interest a priority. For them, a priority is the financial and population status. How to feed their families. They get angry when immigrants from third world come and the employers prefer them because they're cheaper, especially illegals, because the illegals will work in misery conditions because they haven't a choice to report the bad treatment of they'd reveal their illegal status and be deported.

In my view, there are few peoples who cultivate hatred for the sake of hatred, or who hate peoples just because of their skin colour of bone structure or skull shape. A user here said, I think it was Patrioten, that if you put a non-European in a skinhead's yard, he will have a racist reaction. But if the non-European is in another country of his kind, or the skinhead is on holiday in his country, there won't be racism.

Bärin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 04:46 AM
First off, I think you might've misunderstood [other forum member]'s point, but, regardless, if you entire conception of nationalism, folkism, etc. is anti-[insert group here], then you end up being left with a generation of "activists" who know exactly what it is they're fighting against but have no idea what it is they're fighting to preserve. It is important to note problems and deficiencies and to honestly confront them; but more important is to have a full understanding of who we are and what it is we're preserving. The later cannot be done in a Stormfront-esque atmosphere of constant negativity, where every thread is about what's wrong with [insert group here].
My entire conception isn't only anti-[insert group here]. It's both pro my group, and anti the alien groups. The alien groups are acting to destroy my group. exit is right about one thing. The non-white nationalist movement or even the Islamic movement. They're intolerant of other ethnicities and religions. The discrimination card can't be played in countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran. If Christians, homosexuals or other minorities there had the nerve to ask special treatment and special rights, they'd probably get hanged. But we open the gates for every minority because we're so afraid of being anti, because we want to be looked at positively and not be criticised by aliens or multiculti dogooders. The Northern and the whitest states in the USA are the most liberal. Why is that? Because they were not exposed to the presence of aliens as much as the South. Because they're ignorant about what the alien groups are like. If forums avoid discussion about Jews, Negroes and other groups because they're afraid to look like WN or neonazi forums, the result will be the same, in a virtual version. The ones who have reactionary world views will be put off because they're intimidated or lectured when they want to discuss these things, and only the moderate ones will join. There will be a shift in political orientation and general ignorance about the effects of aliens and multiculturalism.

Psychonaut
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 05:05 AM
My entire conception isn't only anti-[insert group here]. It's both pro my group, and anti the alien groups.

Then why bother going all the way over to another unnamed forum and denigrating a position that is pro-European? If the post you quoted is representative of what you consider to be wrong with the nationalist movement, then I'm not sure what it is you're standing for? Must every nationalist forum be primarily comprised of anti-[insert group here] material? No one on this forum or the other is saying that there isn't a place for criticism, but when complaints about another group outnumber positive contributions towards the betterment of your own group, one has to wonder what the point is? There are plenty of anti-[insert group here] fora out there; what makes Skadi and the other forum great are that the foci are decidedly not anti anything, but rather pro-Germanic and pro-European.

Bärin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 05:24 AM
Now since someone at the other forum quoted me back, I'm going to comment on it too because it's relevant to this thread topic.


What Bärin (and some other hardcore Nazis) don't want to understand, is that not all preservationists want to / have to identify with their extreme ideological subculture. I guess it's a stage one goes through. I was pretty similar when I was 18 years old.First of all, I'm not a hardcore nazi. But you should know that by looking at my profile entry. I'm a nationalist communist. I sympathize with some aspects of the nazi ideology, but I prefer national communism. There are plenty of people with hardcore views who aren't nazis. And, it's not a stage. I come to this world view through repeated experiences with aliens. The district I used to live in is bordered by two of the most criminal districts in Berlin. I was assaulted by foreigners for being a blonde German girl. I discriminate and I'm not ashamed to say it. If you changed your thinking since you were 18 doesn't mean everyone else will. Some people become more liberal as they age. I think there was a study about it. I'm not scheduling to become one of those though. I'm not compromising my views for anyone or anything, because I know my views are correct.

I don't understand why you and other people are so anti-nazi. The National Socialist Germany was one of the few regimes which made ethnic and cultural preservation official policy. Your beloved neocons aren't doing that. And exit is right again in his original post. Political elections won't do anything. As Socialism dictates, for change there is revolution required.

I understand though that not all nationalism have this position. I'm not saying you should be a nazi. Don't be. I don't care. I tolerate other political ideologies. But the liberals like you and many other people don't. If you did, none of you'd have a problem if someone posts a thread about the Talmud or the Jews. If you know the things already or they bore you you'd ignore it.


Then why bother going all the way over to another unnamed forum and denigrating a position that is pro-European? If the post you quoted is representative of what you consider to be wrong with the nationalist movement, then I'm not sure what it is you're standing for? Must every nationalist forum be primarily comprised of anti-[insert group here] material? No one on this forum or the other is saying that there isn't a place for criticism, but when complaints about another group outnumber positive contributions towards the betterment of your own group, one has to wonder what the point is? There are plenty of anti-[insert group here] fora out there; what makes Skadi and the other forum great are that the foci are decidedly not anti anything, but rather pro-Germanic and pro-European.
Because someone mentioned that forum to me and asked me if I saw it. I looked at it and I saw one of the recent threads which contained this quote and I thought it was a good representation.
It's not a problem that you prefer more cultural threads. Create them. Discuss them. It's a problem you do it determinentally to the ones who focus on immigration and alien groups. That's the problem of nationalism. The avoidance to discuss some topics because some people are too sensitive to them. That when someone starts a thread about Jews or Negroes, a million liberal dogooders jump and cry.
That passage I was quoting reminds me of some other people's position who made threads complaining about racism and asking us to post more about culture. I'm quoting it an old post from the Althing days:


How will it help to preserve the ancient cultures, languages and ethnicities when we are just scorning the other races (even those that have reached similar levels of sophistication) ? What good will it be for the Dutch, the Germans, the English and others when we act as WN or NS cyberwarriors beating away in cyberspace against "negro's", Hispanics and others- apart from those that are REALLY a threat to our society: like the Islamisation, the Mac-Donaldisation, the globalisation, the increasing financial, moral and spiritual poverty in large sections of our population ?
While we could also try to document the history, culture and language of our peoples in a attempt to preserve them for our offspring. It will- at least- be far more useful.

We are Germanics so we have the moral and intellectual capacity to moderate our tone a bit and focus on the things that are important. Sure.. immigration is a problem for society- but so is the rapid dissapearance of our culture and language, the destruction of our architecture, the globalisation, the destruction of our welfare state, the whole-sale destruction of our environment. Every child that goes to school hungry because it's parents cannot afford to pay a meal- every family that is evicted -every tree that is cut down to be replaced with motorways or industry is as much a blow to our society as any new immigrant that arrives with the wish of mooching of our welfare state.

Shouldn't we focus more on these issues rather then just this senseless race bashing (and I am saying this to myself as well)And here is the crux:


We have become racists, rather then preservationists. (Yes, that includes me..- and I feel the need to apoplogise for that.)Does this sound familiar? Yes, to me. Of mainstream multiculturalists who apologize for being "racist".

If this is the future of nationalism, then you'd have to be blind not to see there is something wrong with it.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 05:39 AM
if you entire conception of nationalism, folkism, etc. is anti-[insert group here], then you end up being left with a generation of "activists" who know exactly what it is they're fighting against but have no idea what it is they're fighting to preserve.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can't be pro-something without being anti-something at the same time. If you're not pro-immigration, then it implies you're anti-immigration. Keep fooling yourself if you want but that's the truth.

I'm tired of the constant NS bashing on these forums. That's the problem with the nationalist movement. Too much infighting. It's not us, the "Nazis" who are applying regular pressure on you to post according to our wishes. It's viceversa.

Psychonaut
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 05:48 AM
It's a problem you do it determinentally to the ones who focus on immigration and alien groups. That's the problem of nationalism. The avoidance to discuss some topics because some people are too sensitive to them. That when someone starts a thread about Jews or Negroes, a million liberal dogooders jump and cry.

That's a very nice strawman. Did anyone over there jump to the defense of the Jews? Did anyone in that thread complain that their sensibilities were offended? No, the complaints that were made were regarding the fact that the sole purpose of that particular poster seemed to be spreading the "secrets" of the alleged Jewish conspiracy. The message itself was not under fire, it was the obsession with that one thing to the detriment of all else that was.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can't be pro-something without being anti-something at the same time. If you're not pro-immigration, then it implies you're anti-immigration. Keep fooling yourself if you want but that's the truth.

Black and white forced dichotomies are the hallmark of Middle Eastern systems of thought like Christianity and Islam. Being pro-French, in my case, in no way whatsoever necessitates that I am anti anything at all.

Ossi
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:02 AM
First off, I think you might've misunderstood [other forum member]'s point, but, regardless, if you entire conception of nationalism, folkism, etc. is anti-[insert group here], then you end up being left with a generation of "activists" who know exactly what it is they're fighting against but have no idea what it is they're fighting to preserve.
Ya well that's no problem. The priority is to kick the foreigners out and close the gates. After that we can all dress in national costumes, yodel or blot and sumbel all we want. There's a time for everything.


There are plenty of anti-[insert group here] fora out there; what makes Skadi and the other forum great are that the foci are decidedly not anti anything, but rather pro-Germanic and pro-European.
Ya, which fora would those be? Even Stormfront has become prissy about some topics like NS. Nowadays all forums want to avoid some topics because they're afraid of being considered racist. I have some news for you, you'll still be considered racist no matter how many things you amend.

Bärin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:03 AM
That's a very nice strawman. Did anyone over there jump to the defense of the Jews?
Yes. Undermining the effect and importance of the Jewish influence.

And here's a recent comment from a Skadi thread, in defense of the Jews too:


That's not fair on the Jewish people, Jews do stuff but don't need blame for that as well.

It's how typical moderates react.


Did anyone in that thread complain that their sensibilities were offended?
Yes, they said they want to avoid such threads. That's how 90 % of liberal or moderate posters react. It's typical. Their radars beep when they see "racist" threads. Yet how many nazi radars beep when someone posts a thread about culture or art? How many nazis went into your threads and complained they don't want to see those threads dominating the forums? None.


No, the complaints that were made were regarding the fact that the sole purpose of that particular poster seemed to be spreading the "secrets" of the alleged Jewish conspiracy.
That was the purpose of that thread, but why? Because she hates Jews? Or because knowing the Jew better helps us to be wary of him and protect our ethnic and culture better? I'd think it's the latter. Would nazis still hate Jews if they lived away from their countries? I don't think so.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:08 AM
Black and white forced dichotomies are the hallmark of Middle Eastern systems of thought like Christianity and Islam.
Muslims and Christians also believe in gods, I guess if you believe in gods you have something in common with them. Nice try.


Being pro-French, in my case, in no way whatsoever necessitates that I am anti anything at all.
No? Are you open to immigration from Africa? Would you marry an African? If your answer is no, then you are against, i.e. anti-immigration and race mixing. If your answer is yes, then you are pro. It's very simple.

Siebenbürgerin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:19 AM
Hmm, a little notice. What peoples from other boards want is irrelevant to Skadi so let's focus on our business, not theirs. :) Here if you wish more themes on culture and the other users aren't creating them, you must create them. That's what I do. I can't control what other users write. As long as you aren't spamming like 50 threads after another about same topic in very short time and flooding the forum search with them (it doesn't matter if it's Jews or Anglo-Saxon burials), you can post about what you like. But Skadi is a forum about Germanic heritage and if 100 % of your posts are about Judaism or Islam, then we'll have to assume you aren't interested in our mission and take the necessary measures.

Psychonaut
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:21 AM
Ya well that's no problem. The priority is to kick the foreigners out and close the gates. After that we can all dress in national costumes, yodel or blot and sumbel all we want. There's a time for everything.

Why force one to come before the other? Can we not celebrate our culture while addressing immigration problems? In isolation both are inadequate. If the expulsion of one group (or several) is one's entire raison d'être, then once that task is completed, there is a looming emptiness left where the hatred once was.


No? Are you open to immigration from Africa? Would you marry an African? If your answer is no, then you are against, i.e. anti-immigration and race mixing. If your answer is yes, then you are pro. It's very simple.

You're presenting a false dichotomy. If I'm pro-hamburgers must I hate hotdogs? No. In your particular example, being pro-whatever would imply an aversion to miscegenation and immigration, but even such attitudes do not necessitate (mind that word) being anti anything. Not wanting to breed with non-whites and being anti-non-white are two very different things.

Ossi
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:34 AM
Why force one to come before the other? Can we not celebrate our culture while addressing immigration problems? In isolation both are inadequate. If the expulsion of one group (or several) is one's entire raison d'être, then once that task is completed, there is a looming emptiness left where the hatred once was.
That would be the ideal but when you try to do two things at the same time it's rarely that you manage to do them both perfectly. When the Turks threatened the gates of Vienna, do you think the Viennese sat and chatted about art? They invested all their energy and strength into kicking out the Turkish threat. Islam is again at the gates of Europe. If we want to survive, opposing this threat should become our focus for the time being. Anything else should become second. Once that's accomplished, we can focus on the rest.

Psychonaut
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:42 AM
That would be the ideal but when you try to do two things at the same time it's rarely that you manage to do them both perfectly. When the Turks threatened the gates of Vienna, do you think the Viennese sat and chatted about art? They invested all their energy and strength into kicking out the Turkish threat. Islam is again at the gates of Europe. If we want to survive, opposing this threat should become our focus for the time being. Anything else should become second. Once that's accomplished, we can focus on the rest.

I understand your argument and, being a military man myself, see the truth in it, to a point. The problem with adopting a military mentality with our immigration crisis is the length of time that we're dealing with. Barring the unforeseen rise of a pro-Germanic conquering dictator (the chances of which are about zero), we're looking at a struggle that will most likely be measured in generations, not years. What will we feed the souls of our children with? A people cannot be maintained on hate alone. A family cannot subsist on the hatred of immigrants. We must also ensure that we do not allow the loss of our culture to continue. We've lost so much already, and it's much harder to bring back a tradition than it is to give one up.

SwordOfTheVistula
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 08:32 AM
Nationalism has always been the enemy of the White peoples. It always gets subverted and used by the capitalist class to enrich themselves at the expense of other peoples children being turned into corpses.

Definitely true, as we can see from the large number of 'civic nationalists'.



If Germanic peoples in particular and White people on the whole want to survive long term they have to be internationalist. Their prime loyalty being only to their race, wherever it is. Not to their nation, land, geography, flag, government, the society in which they live, economic system etc.

True, but these flags etc can help form a religion roughly in the veins which you speak of. Most people will not become full racial nationalists, and 'civic nationalists' can be allies, for example in the BNP they have maybe a few core racialists at the top and then a bunch of civic nationalists making up a lot of the lower ranks.



Boredom...

This 'boredom' was adopted purposely to counter allegations that racialists are a bunch of uneducated, mindless, violent, freakish thugs. Perhaps this also presents additional problems for us though.


The pseudo-religions of "creativity" or whatever they call it and "christian identity" are two of the most disgusting things about the nationalist movement.

Christian Identity is not that different than what was considered regular Christianity in past times. Obviously, it strains credulity, with teachings wildly in conflict with archeology and science, but then again, what religion doesn't. Creativity, I don't know if it can be classified as a true religion, but it offers a general system of guidance that is pro-white. I have yet to see a better pro-European religion this one. For people like myself who are interested in the eugenics studies you dismissed as 'boring', religion in general is not necessary, but for those who do desire a religion, we'd be better off with people following either of these religions than any of the other ones out there.

Bärin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 08:40 AM
You're presenting a false dichotomy. If I'm pro-hamburgers must I hate hotdogs? No. In your particular example, being pro-whatever would imply an aversion to miscegenation and immigration, but even such attitudes do not necessitate (mind that word) being anti anything. Not wanting to breed with non-whites and being anti-non-white are two very different things.
Being a nationalist doesn't necessitate (mind that word) not being anti something either. There are nationalists who are anti something and nationalists who aren't. My question hasn't been answered. Why must the expression of one camp, the ones who focus on immigration and foreigners, be sacrificed because the others prefer to focus on culture? Why can't you focus on culture and leave the others focus on what they want too? Moderates say they want to avoid having some topics on forums, but when someone criticizes this attitude of pressure and intimidation they say criticism is fine as long as the majority of threads aren't about it. Well are these forums so dominated by Jewish topics it's 80 % Jewish talk? I don't think so. I browse forums and I see a good variety of topics. The truth is, these moderates/liberals are acting exactly like the minorities who want to push their agendas on others and make everyone else conform with their world view. Moderates are focusing too much on proving nationalism isn't about being violent and hateful, but in the process they're sacrificing a lot. They're sacrificing the people with hardcore views. They want them to focus on culture, or them to stop posting topics that are "racist", like immigrants want the host to do everything while they do nothing. Political parties are doing the same. Even the "right wing" is becoming open to integration of foreigners and allowing intelligent and educated foreigners to immigrate, because they want to prove they don't hate them for their race. If you like culture so much focus on it while others focus on opposing immigration and revealing the truth about aliens. This can be done at the same time, by different entities. But moderates put one before the other by driving away the radicals.

burnitdown
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 03:10 PM
Boredom. Failure of message.

The problem with white nationalism is that it strikes with a negative message.

We don't need to know the ugly truths about other ethnicities.

We need to build up the culture, values, consensus and heritage of our own.

We also need to agitate for sensible political answers; few nationalist organizations have any.

Hauke Haien
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 04:23 PM
The separation of culture from race is artificial, it exists only in our analysis and perhaps conceptually in Anglo-American Nazi-liberalism.

A decultured people is a people without spirit and identity. Much effort has been invested into bringing this about, because a people without a nervous system is incapable of acting as a people, it is just a cellular mass that may be broken apart and recombined at will.

The problem with immigration is not that immigrants do not perform well or that they disturb our degenerated social order by maintaining their spirit and identity, which enables them to coordinate attacks and prey on us.

People who cry about this are the problem. They are still Western humans appealing to a universal morality that should not exist and does not protect us anyway. A renewed focus on what is specific and useful to us is needed and can only be achieved through culture. Reclaiming our maligned traditions and returning meaning to them, creating spiritually reinforced communities within our rotting liberal state and veneration of our ancestors, that is where fanatical devotion to our people comes from, that is the angle that allows universal morality to be breached in our favour.

Anti-Semitism, anti-Romanism, anti-Slavism, anti-Islamism; it is all perfectly legitimate, but not because an examination of their merit found them wanting or because their actions have triggered futile, impotent hate. It should come from knowing who we are, that they do not belong to us and that only our independent power as a people can shape our relationship with them.

Sigurd
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 04:46 PM
Nationalists want to attract more moderates on their side and they sacrifice the ones with less mainstream views for it.

There needs to be a bit of a bridge to allow people to eventually shift further towards the "right". Nobody wakes up the next morning saying "I'm now an ultra Nationalist", it is a progression. Some will stop at a more moderate position, some will stop at a more extreme position, but to appeal to the masses, a progression must be possible and be luring.

Compare for example the success of less "extreme" Nationalist parties such as the FPÖ and the VB. They both hold the entire spectrum, no doubt. Convening with several activists across the board for a beer has taught me that those who take a more extreme position accept that at least something ought to be achieved, and that an existing basis can always be used as a spring board at a later stage.

Many phantasise about a NS state - but at this point, I cannot see it coming from one day to another. The environment that Hitler found himself in was generally more Nationalist to start out with and moderate Nationalist parties would have been considered centrist, even as the "liberals" of their day and age.

You need a basis, a fundament first. No temple can have its roof erect without the pillars already standing. At present, the situation is so dire, that in terms of public policy we should first erect the pillars and then build thereupon.


Why can't we have both, moderates and radicals?You misunderstand the meaning of the word "radical". What you are looking for is the word "extreme". A person need not be anti-anything to be radical. Radical Traditionalists for example --- they're essentially the "Amish of the Heathen movement". ;)


The kind of thinking, that we're the sole responsibles for our problems and the immigrants are just a consequence is a failed kind of thinking from my point of view.But neither are the immigrants the sole problem at hand. If we ship the foreigners off, we're still left with a rotten system. And if we amend the system or discard it in the favour of another, then we're still left with the foreigners. And finally, even if we do both, then we've done nothing to preserve our culture, also in decline.

As I stated before, it needs all these things:
Repatriation of the foreigners and subsequent application of stricter immigration Laws
Debunking of the rotten system and interchanging it with something more sustainable
Foster our culture well and make sure that it survives with our children.Some people always say that some of the membership is only concerned with the cultural part, and not the immediate threat from the aliens. Well, sure, but the latter oft don't consider the former. None is really better there than the other, both are important.

And the fact that we have both discussed here is also what sets us apart from other fora who either focus too much on one or the other. I still hold at the opinion that the preservation part is more important to be discussed because it needs more proactivity to preserve it whilst the immigration issue is more a matter that demands reaction rather than action, but well...

Either way, if immigrants were our only problem, then we'd be sorted. I yet have to see a Black ned/chav. ;)


At worst the result of that is "nationalists" like the ones who thought Chinese immigrants to Europe who wear Lederhosen and sign the national anthem are more European than Europeans who dress modernly and carry iPods.A flawed example. There is nothing un-Nationalist or un-Preservationist about dressing modernly and carrying iPods. Unless you're a Radical Traditionalist, Amish or Mennonite, technological progress doesn't come as a destructive force towards one's traditions. I do consider myself a bit of a traditionalist, but I still take the bus/car/train/plane and I still use a computer and a washing machine. :P

Other than that, I hope I know what you mean: Foreigners who are interested in the culture, and Indigenous who couldn't care less. Well - the former should be supported in their interest for our culture: whilst they can never become one of us, then at least we leave an impression. And the latter can always be brought to reason. Of course, I find neds/chavs to be the scum of the earth - but they're our fellow folk and as such it is our duty to show them a more worthy lifestyle to eventually allow their descendants to become involved with our culture again. :)

"Us" doesn't exist without a comparison to "them", because to see what makes "us" unique and see why our culture is worth preserving we must be aware of what it would be like if "them" would be converting us to theirs. Islam, Judaism, multiculturalism, whatever it is. For every beautiful there is an ugly. For every smart there is a dumb. Without the ugly and dumb, we wouldn't have the notions of beautiful and smart. Nationalism has to have twofold focuses. One, the most important at this moment is to close the gates to more aliens. To convince everyone why we don't want more of them here. How are we supposed to do that if nationalists are supposed to censor theirselves because they don't want to look like "lowbrow forums" and other garbage? It won't work. No, discussing the Talmud or Qu'ran shouldn't be frowned on, because everything we need to know about the alien is in there. Who doesn't believe the Muslims are determined to conquer Europe should read the Qu'ran. It's all in there.[/quote]



That's the problem with the nationalist movement. Too much infighting.

Spot on. That indeed IS the biggest problem. ;)


It's not us, the "Nazis" who are applying regular pressure on you to post according to our wishes. It's viceversa.I have undertaken the trouble to look through your thread starting history, and have noticed that there are very few ideological threads directly related to National Socialism, at least in comparison to the overall record.

I'd actually be very pleased personally to read more opinions of yourself about NS, historical and nowadays, so go ahead. :thumbup


No? Are you open to immigration from Africa? Would you marry an African? Yes, and yes - as long as they are White Germanics. My stepfather (of German [Austrian] and English heritage) grew up in South Africa and he's as Keltic Nordid as it gets, with an excellent command of the English and German languages respectively (not so much with the Afrikaner language - which he learnt, but never spoke proactively).

I know that you're talking about Negroes here - but then do please use a term describing that. I consider it highly offensive to our Germanic kin, especially considering the harsh time they are given even in their former strongholds of Namibia and South Africa, not to mention elsewhere in Africa, to categorise all Africans into one category. Hel, Rudolf Heß was born a German man in Egypt. ;)

To have a person of German heritage from Namibia or a person of Afrikaner or German heritage from South Africa return, as well as people of British heritage from either of them - Anytime, you're welcome, brothers. :thumbup

Berrocscir
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Interesting, thought provoking thread.

I think that any anti-establishment current will always get negative coverage from the media. The nationalist milieu, at times, gives the impression of only being interested in railing against the left and the liberal establishment. It doesn't make enough effort into getting the POSITIVE messages across to the public.

It also could benefit from branching out into the cultural sphere more, as well as the political.

Increasing these days, I think nationalists will gain kudos from projects like setting up schemes to keep money and resources circulating among nationalists themselves, co-ops, and looking into the possibility of self-help groups, community work etc

Cetainly trying to reason with hardened-leftist politicos is a thankless task, a lot of effort for scant reward. But most people's views change over time and through experience. A lot of ordinary liberal-minded people I know are beginning to look at the world differently when they see the real effects of mass-immigration, globalisation etc

Jäger
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 05:50 PM
The problem with the "nationalist movement" is their universally degenerate thought of gathering strength thorugh simply accumulating masses, and thus takeing anyone who cheers for them regardless of his skill, and related to this, that they are still stuck in the Bolshevist mindset fo egaltiariansim, even if reduced to a lower (national) level.

An organized few of strength who will subject the masses is the right strategy, not many weaklings who try please the masses to attract even more weaklings.

exit
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 06:56 PM
An organized few of strength who will subject the masses is the right strategy, not many weaklings who try please the masses to attract even more weaklings.

Thank you, my thoughts exactly. The NM is all talk and no action, which is also why "infighting" is not a problem, but conformity to failure is.

Bärin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 07:56 PM
There needs to be a bit of a bridge to allow people to eventually shift further towards the "right". Nobody wakes up the next morning saying "I'm now an ultra Nationalist", it is a progression. Some will stop at a more moderate position, some will stop at a more extreme position, but to appeal to the masses, a progression must be possible and be luring.

Compare for example the success of less "extreme" Nationalist parties such as the FPÖ and the VB. They both hold the entire spectrum, no doubt. Convening with several activists across the board for a beer has taught me that those who take a more extreme position accept that at least something ought to be achieved, and that an existing basis can always be used as a spring board at a later stage.
I said I'm for compromising with the moderates and I'm not against their promotion of culture. As far as I'm concerned promote culture all you want. But not at the expense of asking the others to censor or limit themselves. Anyone thinking that cultural preservationism alone it's going to attract people to nationalism is foolish. By eliminating the "anti" part moderates cry about, a door for civic or cultural nationalism where race matters not is left open. I've seen people turn to nationalism and they're more likely to do it once they're aware of the kind of "enrichment" our immigrants are bringing here than after seeing a painting by Sepp Hilz or listening to Richard Wagner. There are plenty of non-nationalists who are admirers of indigenous Germanic culture. But I don't want to see the future of Germanic activists turning into a kind of "Heathens against hate". When the average person sees the immigrants aren't like the media portrays them, when he sees their presence is endangering authentic Germanism, they will turn to nationalism. Preservation is about defending your native culture yes, but against who? Against non-natives. Against aliens. If aliens didn't exist, our culture wouldn't be under considerable threat to begin with. The degenerate religions, political orientations and directions were brought by foreigners initially, most of them, especially by Jews. Christianity, which was the downfall of our civilization, Judaism and Islam come from the desert.


Many phantasise about a NS state - but at this point, I cannot see it coming from one day to another. The environment that Hitler found himself in was generally more Nationalist to start out with and moderate Nationalist parties would have been considered centrist, even as the "liberals" of their day and age.

You need a basis, a fundament first. No temple can have its roof erect without the pillars already standing. At present, the situation is so dire, that in terms of public policy we should first erect the pillars and then build thereupon.
I see revolution happening in future. The economic crisis is a good thing and it needs to get worse. People need to starve and shiver of cold. To have a realistic and tangible reason to be against the government. That's the kind of things we need for people to adopt nationalist positions. Not art exhibits and Shakespeare plays.


You misunderstand the meaning of the word "radical". What you are looking for is the word "extreme". A person need not be anti-anything to be radical. Radical Traditionalists for example --- they're essentially the "Amish of the Heathen movement". ;)
Yeah whatever, I'm not a linguist and I just wanted to put a point across. If it's understood, that's what matters.


But neither are the immigrants the sole problem at hand. If we ship the foreigners off, we're still left with a rotten system. And if we amend the system or discard it in the favour of another, then we're still left with the foreigners. And finally, even if we do both, then we've done nothing to preserve our culture, also in decline.

As I stated before, it needs all these things:
Repatriation of the foreigners and subsequent application of stricter immigration Laws
Debunking of the rotten system and interchanging it with something more sustainable
Foster our culture well and make sure that it survives with our children.Some people always say that some of the membership is only concerned with the cultural part, and not the immediate threat from the aliens. Well, sure, but the latter oft don't consider the former. None is really better there than the other, both are important.
But the repatriation of foreigners and the building of walls at our borders to keep them out is more important at this moment. That's one of the priorities of any new nationalist regime that establishes itself in power. With foreigners in, cultural preservation is under continuous threat.


And the fact that we have both discussed here is also what sets us apart from other fora who either focus too much on one or the other. I still hold at the opinion that the preservation part is more important to be discussed because it needs more proactivity to preserve it whilst the immigration issue is more a matter that demands reaction rather than action, but well...
Well the situation we are in right now demands reaction. Ossi was right, when the Viennese were attacked at the gates, they united their forces to kick the Turks out. They left the cultural events for later.


Either way, if immigrants were our only problem, then we'd be sorted. I yet have to see a Black ned/chav. ;)
I don't know what a ned/chav is, but if it's something like a wigger, then I think a wigger is less of a threat to us than immigrants. The wigger may have good genetic material and he can be reeducated.


A flawed example. There is nothing un-Nationalist or un-Preservationist about dressing modernly and carrying iPods. Unless you're a Radical Traditionalist, Amish or Mennonite, technological progress doesn't come as a destructive force towards one's traditions. I do consider myself a bit of a traditionalist, but I still take the bus/car/train/plane and I still use a computer and a washing machine. :P

Other than that, I hope I know what you mean: Foreigners who are interested in the culture, and Indigenous who couldn't care less. Well - the former should be supported in their interest for our culture: whilst they can never become one of us, then at least we leave an impression. And the latter can always be brought to reason. Of course, I find neds/chavs to be the scum of the earth - but they're our fellow folk and as such it is our duty to show them a more worthy lifestyle to eventually allow their descendants to become involved with our culture again. :)
Yes that's what I mean foreigners interested in our culture and to be honest with you, I couldn't give a flying fuck to support those who are interested. If they like my culture so much better than theirs they'll want to come here because they consider it superior to theirs. East Germany was fine off without a 'superior' economy, being full of rich elites, because almost nobody wanted to immigrate here. West Germany was attracting Turks like a magnet.

Ormus
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 10:30 PM
Christianity, which was the downfall of our civilization, Judaism and Islam come from the desert.

Obviously I'm biased as a Christian, but I find it hard for many people who know their history to believe the above statement to be true.
Of which civilization do you speak of the Romans or Greeks?
Or Christendom which was united against the onslaught of Islam and united many tribes into larger countries?

I realize this is not the topic at hand but I am interested in why you hold to the above statement. I do agree with most everything else you have said in your post and prvious ones on this thread, this above statement just puzzled me.

forkbeard
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 11:13 PM
Your Criticism of the Creativity Religion is unfounded and I'm sure you know nothing about it. Creativity is anti-Nationalist. Nationalism has always been a perpetual source of wars between White peoples just as Christianity has been a perpetual retardant, source of confusion and division.
I honestly don't see any alternative that is credible. Im open minded, show me one.
Ultimately the White Race must accept Creativity or die (Creativity is just about folowing the laws of Nature). Resist and you are going nowhere and will get nowhere. You have no solutions, no ideas except going round in circles. You will repeat history, perpetually loose, become mongrels and be forced to convert to Islam. But we Creators will remain White and Germanic.

burnitdown
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 11:18 PM
The separation of culture from race is artificial, it exists only in our analysis and perhaps conceptually in Anglo-American Nazi-liberalism.

By the same token, we cannot act on race without acting on culture, and that's the problem with Nationalist movements: bleating about race, ignoring Conservation and culture.

rainman
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 11:58 PM
The single biggest problem: there aren't enough or possibly any groups of wealthy, highly intelligent, competent, and determined leaders. If a group of millionaires (with high I.Q. and good social instinct) were willing to work together and look in the long term say a few hundred years down the road and pass the work on to their children and so forth there would be no problems.

About people rejecting nationalist ideals one is that most nationalists themselves are irrational, failures at life and have a very narrow point of view and can't understand anybody that thinks or acts differently than themselves. Thus they alienate the vast majority of people in society who don't think or act as they do. We can get into many finer details like defining "race" and so on but its overly redundant.

The other main reason is the vast majority of people are not rational. They are followers. They follow the group, leaders, media etc. Which is why 1 really smart person who is rich and powerful is worth more than 100 average joe die hard nationalists. Large groups of people can easily be brought into the fold. The nazi movement proves this.

I think also people must learn to crawl before they walk. This goes along with the irrational nature and low brow nature of most nationalist. You need to be able to organize yourself into clubs, groups, towns, communities etc. before you can aspire to take over a nation or the world or whatever mildly insane notion that is typically in most nationalist's heads. Again Nazis existed for a hundred years or more as secret societies of wealthy or talented individuals.

In all my experience I can say the vast majority (99.99999%) of nationalists are motivated by emotions and not logic. They therefore usually have holes in their logic even though some of them may be smart and be able to out debate most average people.

It's sort of like all the "white supremacists" I meet who believe they are superior to everybody else but live in poverty and are failures in life. Or they think they are too smart for school. Or at least claim the reason they don't go to college is because they know more than the teachers and the reason they are failures in life (even though other people in their exact same situation have done well for themselves) is because of the Jews or whatever. It's an embarassment for any self respecting person to be associated with these groups and movements.

People usually are racist because they feel threatened by others. That foriegner took their job. That black guy took their woman. They fear the crime of non-whites etc. People usually aren't racist because of the logic reasons behind it or because they are highly successful people with their lives together who want to make a change. Stop and think on that. This alone dooms the movement to failure.

As far as I can see there is a big difference between the average I.Q. of Aryans and that of Jews, and even to some extent East Asians. From personal experience and what I've read. Along with other habits (like many Aryans being more docile or less loyal to their race instinctually). So naturally Jews control society and are able to have their goals met. Therefore the first step to success is: eugenics and being financially successful. First step towards nationalism. No group of White nationalists have taken this step as a group and gone for generations with an enduring comittment to their desires.
They expect to overthrow smarter, stronger, healthier communities and live in isolation from the rest of the world. The whole premice is absurd.

Aeternitas
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 12:18 AM
The Nationalist Movements that can actually make a difference are the European and Russian Nationalist parties/movements who continue to grow in support and raise the important issues that the EUSSR wont tell the public.
European nationalist parties that could make a difference might be blocked in the form of coalitions (even parties that would have normally not made an alliance, but do it with the sole purpose of leaving them outnumbered) or banned before they get a substantial majority to initiate changes, in particular the only changes that count significantly: constitutional changes. Excuses and pretexts are plenty to pick from, the most popular being that a certain party is "unconstitutional" or "a threat to democracy". Minor parties and organizations also suffer the same fate sometimes, as part of a quota and deterrent.

If parties wish to remain in the political scene under the current system, they have to make amends and conform to the system. The aim is to water down their views until there is nothing substantial left of them. Usually, the largest, most known and successful parties are often themselves politically correct. So, you have conservatives who support mass immigration from outside of Europe, gay marriage or abortion, and nationalist/populist parties who support mass integration or Judeo-Christian ideology. The "success" of the FPÖ in Austria is a telling example. While they hold nationalist positions in theory, in practice they're just another system party. When it came to action and they came closer to power than other nationalist parties, they supported measures like the tightening of the Prohibition Act, an infringement on freedom of expression.

In post-war Germany, one by one, "far-right extremist" parties and organizations were banned by the Federal Constitutional Court. The Socialist Reich Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Reich_Party) in '52, the Action Front of National Socialists/National Activists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Front_of_National_Socialists/National_Activists) in '83, the German Alternative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Alternative), the Nationalist Front (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Front) and the National Offensive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Offensive) in '92, the Free German Workers' Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_German_Workers%27_Party) in '95. A NPD ban is already in the talks. Its association with skinheads, NS salutes of Horst Mahler and statements of Udo Voigt that Hitler was a great man, coupled with the surveillance and infiltration by the domestic intelligence agency will add up and mark its political suicide.

Another issue with the nationalist scene in Europe is its division and lack of cooperation. There are tons of minor parties, who don't really stand a chance alone, but could easily reach the minimum required percentages if they struck a coalition with other similarly-minded parties. Instead, there are growing tensions and split-ups in the form of off-shoot parties, who no longer wish to associate with the mother party or with other "black sheep" parties. The German Republicans for example refused any cooperation with the NPD/DVU wishing to distance themselves from any "neo-nazi" associations. Neither of them made significant electoral gains.


As for the USA its nationalist movements are too 'nazi-orientated'; at least in the minds of the general public.The nationalist movements in Europe are "nazi-oriented" in the minds of the general public too. Even the Republicans are considered by many "extreme-right" and "neo-nazi". The "right-wing" is kept marginalized by the media and the system-worshiping political science and history "experts".


We don't need to know the ugly truths about other ethnicities.
Oh yes, we do. The politically correct media is avoiding certain topics. A story like the one about a foreign pregnant woman assaulted by racist skinheads is always on the front pages everywhere, but when it turns out it was a faked incident, the story shifts to some random page, with little space dedicated to it, that's if something is written to clarify the matter at all. The ethnicity of the attackers is rarely ever mentioned. It's never Turks, it's "Germans". Some people aren't aware of what is happening. They believe whatever they're fed by the media. Some people here and elsewhere were introduced to ethnic consciousness and nationalism via unfortunate events. Others who haven't had the same experience shouldn't be deprived of the opportunity to learn what is really happening in their countries. They shouldn't have to learn the hard way.

Loddfafner
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 12:39 AM
My impression of the creativity movement is based on the actions of members I have had the misfortune of knowing. They were murderous, dishonorable junkies, the absolute dregs of the race. Reading Klassen's repetitive rants did not improve my impression.

Dagna
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 02:15 AM
Your Criticism of the Creativity Religion is unfounded and I'm sure you know nothing about it. Creativity is anti-Nationalist. Nationalism has always been a perpetual source of wars between White peoples just as Christianity has been a perpetual retardant, source of confusion and division.
I honestly don't see any alternative that is credible. Im open minded, show me one.
Ultimately the White Race must accept Creativity or die (Creativity is just about folowing the laws of Nature). Resist and you are going nowhere and will get nowhere. You have no solutions, no ideas except going round in circles. You will repeat history, perpetually loose, become mongrels and be forced to convert to Islam. But we Creators will remain White and Germanic.
Creativity is inspired from Islam. I believe Creativity is an alien religion to Germanics. Germanics are not forced to accept it or die. That kind of thinking is Semitic thinking, like the Catholics who believe there is no salvation outside the Church. The alternative is our indigenous Germanic religion, heathenism. I won't be forced to convert to Islam. You accept it openly.

Nachtengel
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 02:49 AM
The problem with white nationalism is that it strikes with a negative message.

We don't need to know the ugly truths about other ethnicities.

We need to build up the culture, values, consensus and heritage of our own.

We also need to agitate for sensible political answers; few nationalist organizations have any.
Then what? We should think foreigners are "cultural enrichers"? We should wrap ourselves in an air bubble and live there ignoring everything around us and preaching about the "celebration of our culture"? Positive can't exist without negative. When will you people understand that? We have hordes of immigrants ready to take over, especially the Muslims. And you're telling us we don't need to know the ugly truth. I'm sorry, but what kind of world do you live in? You can preach all you want about preserving culture, but you need to give the people a reason WHY. If they don't know their culture is endangered by these other ethnicities, they couldn't care less. It's often under fire when you wake up and smell the smoke.


I have undertaken the trouble to look through your thread starting history, and have noticed that there are very few ideological threads directly related to National Socialism, at least in comparison to the overall record.

I'd actually be very pleased personally to read more opinions of yourself about NS, historical and nowadays, so go ahead. :thumbup
I made some but they got few reactions. Most people here discriminate against Nationalsocialism. And Nationalsocialism is a world view. That includes a view on immigration. I see Nationalsocialism in the twentyfirst century as a practical world view. I'm not much into philosophical discussions.


Yes, and yes - as long as they are White Germanics. My stepfather (of German [Austrian] and English heritage) grew up in South Africa and he's as Keltic Nordid as it gets, with an excellent command of the English and German languages respectively (not so much with the Afrikaner language - which he learnt, but never spoke proactively).

I know that you're talking about Negroes here - but then do please use a term describing that. I consider it highly offensive to our Germanic kin, especially considering the harsh time they are given even in their former strongholds of Namibia and South Africa, not to mention elsewhere in Africa, to categorise all Africans into one category. Hel, Rudolf Heß was born a German man in Egypt. ;)

To have a person of German heritage from Namibia or a person of Afrikaner or German heritage from South Africa return, as well as people of British heritage from either of them - Anytime, you're welcome, brothers. :thumbup
It was quite obvious I was talking about Negroes so this nitpicking is obsolete.

forkbeard
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 04:56 AM
It is true that Creativity has attracted cranks and criminals primarily by trying to recruit skinheads but the underlying credo makes perfect sense to me. Just as Hitler created a counter force to Bolshevism in his day so a counter force to Islam and multi-racialism is needed now.
Its getting very late in the day. Europeans will find themselves irrelevent persecuted minorities in their own lands in this generation. At least Christian Identity adherents have a plan and programme of Racial expansion. At least they are getting somewhere. I don't agree with them but good luck to them.
What's so disgusting about Creativity? At least Creativity offers a plan that can be implemented on a personal, group or national level.
1, Unify the White race so it can't be tricked into fratricidal wars.
2, Neutralise Russian and Slavic hostility by accomodating them.
3, The primary aim of Creativity is familial expansion. Exactly the way the West was conquered by the American pioneers. If just 1% of Germanics and White people picked up on this extinction would be averted. If Creativity was a household name the race would be as good as saved, its that simple.
4, Practice eugenics so that the Germanic type becomes the racial norm.
5, sever aid to non white countries.
6, Expand the White race.
7, Restore the planets ecology and health.
Thats the basic programme. I see nothing wrong with it. Its all entirely peaceful and legal and non violent despite repeated attacks and slanders and infiltrations.

National Socialism can never make a come back because If I was a Jew or Russian I would nuke the offending nation before it took hold.

vis a vis the Jewish question ; The only way to neutralise permanent Jewish hostility to "White Nationalism" is to give them a way out. Give them their own land and an equal place among nations. Give them arms and help them expand if necessary. Germanics respect right by conquest, by rights all Sinai should be theirs as well.

What White Nationalism is missing is that basic principle of English law "The reasonable mind". Everything has to be reasonable for the average person to accept it.

Jäger
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 07:44 AM
By the same token, we cannot act on race without acting on culture, and that's the problem with Nationalist movements: bleating about race, ignoring Conservation and culture.
That's only a problem in the US, as it seems. Yet, race does trump over culture.

TheGreatest
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 09:36 AM
The problem with the ''Movement'' is it's domination by fringe ''mainstreamed'' activists such as David Duke and political parties.

Bärin
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 10:51 PM
Obviously I'm biased as a Christian, but I find it hard for many people who know their history to believe the above statement to be true.
Of which civilization do you speak of the Romans or Greeks?
Or Christendom which was united against the onslaught of Islam and united many tribes into larger countries?

I realize this is not the topic at hand but I am interested in why you hold to the above statement. I do agree with most everything else you have said in your post and prvious ones on this thread, this above statement just puzzled me.
I know my history thanks. It looks like you don't know yours. Christianity is not an indigenous European religion. It originated in the desert, with the Semitics. Jesus was a Jew and Biblical names are typically Jewish. Christianity was not made for Europeans. Show me one European setting or European mythological figure in the Bible.
The Romans and Greeks adopted a foreign, alien religion. Indigenous Roman and Greek religions were pagan.

To the other forum guy:

Skadi is eating itself alive. They even tolerate shit-in-the-box Stalinist "National Communists" now.I'm not a Stalinist Communist, I'm a German National Communist. :)


It amazes me that such humans feel like they have a right to slander Jews, as if they were somehow superior to them.Yes, we (Germanics) are superior to Jews and other non-Germanics/non-Whites. It is a fact. If this fact offends the Jews and the Judeophiles, it's not my problem. I'm not a humanist. And here you can see again the problem with "nationalists". They're always afraid of admitting the Germanic and European superiority. Germanics and Europeans have been infected with xenophilia.

Ossi
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 02:09 AM
Compare for example the success of less "extreme" Nationalist parties such as the FPÖ and the VB. They both hold the entire spectrum, no doubt.
The spectrum of liberal faggots maybe. First Haider the gay bar activist, now Strache the liberal. "I'm not racist, I like kebabs!"

:oanieyes


It amazes me that such humans feel like they have a right to slander Jews, as if they were somehow superior to them.
Sorry next time we will contact the ADL or human rights commission, to ask for permission. :shrug

The garbage that comes out of liberal wussies' mouths is entertaining, I'll give you that. :D

Vandal Lord
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 05:30 AM
Asking whats wrong with the "nationalist movement" is flawed in the sense that the "nationalist movement" is not a single monolithic movement with one set of beliefs and goals. Some nationalist movements are culturally and ethnically based while others are not. There are many different kinds of nationalist movements with different beliefs, principles, goals as well as different degrees of successes and failures. Factors such as a lack of unity, leadership, funds and a clear focused message with common goals are usually reasons why a nationalist movement fails or never gets off the ground. The Germanic Ethnic Nationalist Movement we are part of here at Skadi has many of these same issues, although I think we all have the same key goal of the preservation of Germanic Nations, Culture and Peoples or aleast I hope. But there are many individual differences and disagreements on what methods or course of actions are needed to achieve our key goal.

Whether one dislikes, likes, or feels indifference towards Non Germanics or Non Descended Europeans is irrelevant to some individuals and groups who consider all forms of nationalism and ethnic pride as hateful and racist even though it perfectly reasonable and logical to want to preserve, be around and to only want to work in the interest of ones own people without being hateful or spiteful toward others. It is tragic that we as a people at this point in history cannot take pride in our heritage without being called hateful.:mad Ethnic Nationalism is based on human nature and realism, conforming to a human being's tribalistic nature. While globalism and multiculturalism are based on unrealistic idealism, cultural clashes and is ultimately unsustainable.

As we speak, globalism is rapidly failing as an economic model which would seem to suggest ethnic nationalism could make a big comeback to fill the void left by failed multicultural globalism. Many people have nationalist beliefs without realizing it, most Americans and Europeans when polled are staunchly against massive third world immigration, tend to practice white flight to move out of areas that have become extremely diverse, not to mention many people practice defacto segregation subconsciously. I think we need to stay true to who we are as Germanics and fight for our right to survive and prosper.


That's only a problem in the US, as it seems. Yet, race does trump over culture.

True, but I am not yet ready to write off and give up on trying to preserve Germanic Culture in the U.S. just yet. I think there is a better chance of Germanic Culture surviving and thriving in the Northern half of the U.S.

Bärin
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 05:47 AM
Whether one dislikes, likes, or feels indifference towards Non Germanics or Non Descended Europeans is irrelevant to some individuals
Nationalism doesn't mean you have to hate other individuals. I don't hate non-Germanics, but I find them inferior and discriminate against them. I can really hate (in the real sense of the word) my own kind. I hate traitors and racemixers. I hate xenophiles. Those I hate with passion, because I wish they would be in our ranks (nationalist). Because I care if we lose them. I want them on our side, not supporting the alien. So I hate them for turning their back. I can only truly hate a people I love. Aliens can't disappoint me. I don't expect anything from aliens.

The problem I have with some dogooder, holier than though nationalists is that they're saying you can't be nationalist if you look at yourself from a superior position, or if you hold "racist" thoughts. They push away, disqualify and ostracize those with extreme views. They're more tolerant towards liberal homosexuals or Hinduphiles than towards people who criticize Jews. They prefer to hold a conversation or be in the presence of "educated non-Germanics" than "Germanic racists". It's unhealthy. It's a disease. I'd be ready to join forces with any nationalist who wanted to protect Germany's German character. As extreme as I am. But will the Jews or Hindus? Keep on dreaming, anyone believing that. They're the kind of people who want to see our ethnicity and culture destroyed.

It angers me I'm being pushed away because of my beliefs. :mad But if I have to fight this fight alone, I will. If I'm the only one who considers having purely German children, not miscegenating, teaching them to be German, not xenophilic and admirer of other "rich cultures", boycotting kebabs and other "yummy foods", then so be it, I'll be the only one.

Siebenbürgerin
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 06:38 AM
Asking whats wrong with the "nationalist movement" is flawed in the sense that the "nationalist movement" is not a single monolithic movement with one set of beliefs and goals.
Yes, in my view you've said it very well. We're not monolithic. We have generally same goals -- to preserve ethnicity, culture and so -- but how it's done differs. Some peoples are very intolerant. Like the complaints why National Communists are allowed, or viceversa why National Socialists are allowed. We can never go anywhere if we reject every single being which doesn't fit 100% into our ideal pattern. We need as many allies as possible if we want to survive.

Bärin
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 06:44 AM
Yes, in my view you've said it very well. We're not monolithic. We have generally same goals -- to preserve ethnicity, culture and so -- but how it's done differs. Some peoples are very intolerant. Like the complaints why National Communists are allowed, or viceversa why National Socialists are allowed. We can never go anywhere if we reject every single being which doesn't fit 100% into our ideal pattern. We need as many allies as possible if we want to survive.
I never complained about allowing National Socialists or any other kind of nationalists. I tolerate other nationalist world views. It's the ones who lecture and like to see themselves as non-extreme who are the real intolerants. Just like our government which preaches tolerance but doesn't tolerate "racism".

Vandal Lord
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 10:32 AM
Yes, in my view you've said it very well. We're not monolithic. We have generally same goals -- to preserve ethnicity, culture and so -- but how it's done differs. Some peoples are very intolerant. Like the complaints why National Communists are allowed, or viceversa why National Socialists are allowed. We can never go anywhere if we reject every single being which doesn't fit 100% into our ideal pattern. We need as many allies as possible if we want to survive.


I never complained about allowing National Socialists or any other kind of nationalists. I tolerate other nationalist world views. It's the ones who lecture and like to see themselves as non-extreme who are the real intolerants. Just like our government which preaches tolerance but doesn't tolerate "racism".

Siebenbürgerin and Bärin, I didn't want to give the wrong impression of what I meant in my op. I agree with you Siebenbürgerin we need all the Germanic allies and support we can get, I wasn't implying that I would reject every individual that doesn't quite hold all my views. Bärin I don't consider myself as holier than thou or look down on others in Germanic Ethnic Nationalist Movement. I also agree that most of my anger and frustration is also directed at my own Germanic people for being soo selfish, complacent and self absorbed and not caring about their own cultural traditions and identities.

What I was trying to say was that regardless of what type of Germanic Nationalist we consider ourselves to be, our opponents such as globalists and multiculturalists will see all of us as hateful and racist regardless if we like, dislike or feel neutral towards Non Germanics or Non Whites in general. But as I pointed out in my previous post, most in the U.S. and Europe are against massive third world immigration and prefer to be with those similar to themselves, with the economic failure of globalism and racial diversity, ethnic nationalism could make a big comeback.

Cythraul
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 10:38 AM
Yes, we (Germanics) are superior to Jews and other non-Germanics/non-Whites. It is a fact.
No, it's not. It's your belief. You're entitled to it but don't pretend I'm deceiving myself by taking a different approach to you. Races carry different strengths and weaknesses, naturally, but we are prone to the same human failings as anyone else. But this is largely irrelevant to me. I don't care whether Germanics are supreme - we're unique - each ethnicity is and it's that uniqueness I fight to preserve, not our 'supremacy'.

Bärin
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 10:52 AM
No, it's not. It's your belief. You're entitled to it but don't pretend I'm deceiving myself by taking a different approach to you. Races carry different strengths and weaknesses, naturally, but we are prone to the same human failings as anyone else. But this is largely irrelevant to me. I don't care whether Germanics are supreme - we're unique - each ethnicity is and it's that uniqueness I fight to preserve, not our 'supremacy'.
Yes it is and no we aren't prone to the same human failings. Europe was always flourishing and successful while places like Africa were/are largely shitholes, except the countries like South Africa where the Whites once reigned. Even some gorillas have higher IQs than Negroes. And the Jews have Israel and maintain it thanks to US support. They didn't manage to conquer a country for ages and they'd be lost without the support of Whites. If minorities are not inferior, then why do they need "affirmative action" programs? They'd compete on the same level with Whites and earn their positions fairly. But no, everything has to be dumbed down to the level of the Negro so the Negro can claim to be "educated" too. If superiority didn't exist and we just had to fight for preservation of cultures because they're "unique" then we'd be fighting for the preservation of cannibalism, incest, piss drinking and other habits which still exist in some of the non-White primitive societies but most of us cringe when we hear about such things in the news, and that's for a reason, because we judge them via our culture and we find our culture superior to theirs. And you just contradicted yourself. If we are "prone to the same human failings as anyone else" then we aren't "unique" because we're just like everybody else. I don't think even the multicultis and aliens believe this bullshit, but many of them preach it because it makes them look like peaceful humanists.

Jäger
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 11:26 AM
If superiority didn't exist and we just had to fight for preservation of cultures because they're "unique" then ...
From our current scientific perspective, it wouldn't even make sense to fight for uniqueness, since science has the uniqueness of any being on earth as a premise (so no need to fight for it), or else evolution would not be possible, an evolution which selects, thus it lets some prosper and destroys others. Preservation is impossible and the attempt alone highly destructive.

Cythraul
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 02:03 PM
Europe was always flourishing and successful while places like Africa were/are largely shitholes, except the countries like South Africa where the Whites once reigned.
How you interpret this depends on spiritual and philosophical views. Many of the world's primitive cultures are primitive because either their ancient traditions forbade what we call modernism, or because they saw what we "whites" did to our natural world. Besides, the capacity for civilisation is not the only measure of superiority. Germanics and Romanics - I agree - are better at civilising.

Interestingly, when the Angles and Saxons arrived in post-Roman Britain, instead of occupying the abandoned towns and cities, they avoided them and lived close to nature in the beginning. They favoured primitivism in comparison to the Romans at the time.



Even some gorillas have higher IQs than Negroes.
Where did you get this from?



And the Jews have Israel and maintain it thanks to US support. They didn't manage to conquer a country for ages and they'd be lost without the support of Whites.
Actually, the Jews have Israel partly because of extremely powerful Zionists in America and Europe.



If minorities are not inferior, then why do they need "affirmative action" programs? They'd compete on the same level with Whites and earn their positions fairly.
They need "affirmative action" (which I disagree with, naturally) because they are attempting to succeed in foreign lands, among foreign ethnicities. Still to this day, we favour our own kind, but not necessarily because they're superior. As I said earlier, some races may be less intelligent than we are, but they might - for example - have a much better understanding of the natural world.



If superiority didn't exist and we just had to fight for preservation of cultures because they're "unique" then we'd be fighting for the preservation of cannibalism, incest, piss drinking and other habits which still exist in some of the non-White primitive societies but most of us cringe when we hear about such things in the news, and that's for a reason, because we judge them via our culture and we find our culture superior to theirs.
Yes, and animal and human sacrifice among the Celts. We've all had a period of deplorable primitivism. Ours merely ended sooner. Yet, because of that we've created an inherently corrupt "Western Civilisation" - probably the greatest threat to planet Earth. Remember - it was us whites who facilitated multiculturalism. Piss-drinking is a religious, ritual practice used - among many cultures - to enter hallucinogenic, Shamanic states. Similar rituals were done by our Germanic ancestors and to someone like me who admires old traditions, it's an acceptable practice.



And you just contradicted yourself. If we are "prone to the same human failings as anyone else" then we aren't "unique" because we're just like everybody else.
Fair point. I should have phrased it: "prone to as many human failings as anyone else".

Bärin, I'm not trying to talk you or anyone out of 'white supremacy'. It's an inevitable conclusion some reach given our plight. I just don't appreciate being thought of as cowardly, delusional, politically correct or lacking in conviction simply because I've reached a different logical conclusion. Believe me, most people I encounter think I'm 'racist' anyway so I'm really not gaining anything by taking the non-supremacist stance I take.

exit
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 02:42 PM
Asking whats wrong with the "nationalist movement" is flawed in the sense that the "nationalist movement" is not a single monolithic movement with one set of beliefs and goals.

The ethno-nationalists are all more or less connected; most use the same type of propaganda techniques and have the same type of petty moralism dominating their individual beliefs even though this is merely outward appearance--in private they are quite the opposite.

rainman
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 07:49 PM
Why are white supremacists so focused on this narrow time in history when whites were most successful? What about the dark ages? What about stone age europe- was it much different from the rest of the world? At one time China was far more advanced than Europe? What about modern times? Is a dying half retarded white race superior to those that dominate over them and manipulate them? I think white supremacists are a bit dillusional. I support a racial nation for preservation of Aryans in some sense and an evolution of Aryans to a better state within the confines of their unique cultural and genetic heritage. I'm not white supremacist though. I see all races on earth today more or less flawed and in need of adapting.

Ormus
Friday, February 20th, 2009, 09:53 PM
I know my history thanks. It looks like you don't know yours. Christianity is not an indigenous European religion. It originated in the desert, with the Semitics. Jesus was a Jew and Biblical names are typically Jewish. Christianity was not made for Europeans. Show me one European setting or European mythological figure in the Bible.
The Romans and Greeks adopted a foreign, alien religion. Indigenous Roman and Greek religions were pagan.

Never did I say that there were European historical figures or mythology in the Bible your claim was that Christianity was the downfall of European civilization, you knowing your history I simply ask which one?


No, it's not. It's your belief. You're entitled to it but don't pretend I'm deceiving myself by taking a different approach to you. Races carry different strengths and weaknesses, naturally, but we are prone to the same human failings as anyone else. But this is largely irrelevant to me. I don't care whether Germanics are supreme - we're unique - each ethnicity is and it's that uniqueness I fight to preserve, not our 'supremacy'.

I believe this to be an excellent example of how we should view ourselves and others view us. Whether you believe yourself to be superior or not, let others decide that for you. Nothing is more annoying than a person that prides themself in being smart, talented or otherwise gifted in a certain area. If you simply try to excel in whatever you do than other will see that.

This above quoted believe is also a view that can be respected by others, especially among Germanics, who would be those that would be the important people in persuading their culture is worth saving and unique.

I am also not saying that believing your culture is better is bad, but to flaunt it or even point it out is flawed. That is not how cultures survive, why do you think we have immigrants in the first place their parents saw our culture believed it to be better or offer more oppurtunity and security and moved in with our governments permission. Usually it is the youth who grow up in the culture who want to bring it down, because they have never had to live on the other side and take it for granted.

Jäger
Saturday, February 21st, 2009, 09:18 AM
Why are white supremacists so focused on this narrow time in history when whites were most successful? What about the dark ages? What about stone age europe- was it much different from the rest of the world?
We simply don't know, and most likely never will, that's why "we" (I am certainly no white supremacist) need to focus on what we really can observe.

SwordOfTheVistula
Saturday, February 21st, 2009, 01:00 PM
Piss-drinking is a religious, ritual practice used - among many cultures - to enter hallucinogenic, Shamanic states. Similar rituals were done by our Germanic ancestors and to someone like me who admires old traditions, it's an acceptable practice.

Got any links to when, or if, our ancestors did this? Possibly in the far distant past, because it was the only thing they could get high off of, but our ancestors soon found other, better things, if they ever did this in the first place. On the other hand, Africans still do that to this day, getting high off of fermenting sewage (called 'jenkem'). Someone on 4chan tried this, fermented some feces and urine in a plastic jug for a week, then huffed it, said he tasted feces in his mouth for the next week and a half. No thanks to that, I'm glad my people have long progressed past this (if we ever did it in the first place). So yeah, I'd say I'm 'superior' to someone so desperate for a high that they consume human waste.

Cythraul
Saturday, February 21st, 2009, 02:16 PM
Got any links to when, or if, our ancestors did this?
They didn't drink piss, as far as I know, but they had similar Shamanic rituals which involved hallucinogens. That's all I meant. The Siberians, whose use of the fly agaric mushroom for hallucinogenic purposes, drank the urine of someone who had consumed fly agaric in order to achieve a mediated version of the direct effect.


In eastern Siberia, the shaman would consume the mushrooms, and others would drink his urine.[85] This urine, still containing active hallucinogens may actually be more potent than the A. muscaria mushrooms with fewer negative effects, such as sweating and twitching, suggesting that the initial user may act as a screening filter for other components in the mushroom.[86] Among the Koryak, one report held the poor would consume the urine of the wealthy, who could afford to buy the mushrooms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria

GroeneWolf
Saturday, February 21st, 2009, 06:43 PM
The single biggest problem: there aren't enough or possibly any groups of wealthy, highly intelligent, competent, and determined leaders. If a group of millionaires (with high I.Q. and good social instinct) were willing to work together and look in the long term say a few hundred years down the road and pass the work on to their children and so forth there would be no problems.

Indeed, the biggest problem is that large part of the intelectual and economic elite aren't nationalist and are hardly pro-Germanic. So what is needed is the creation/rising up of such an elite. Here on Skadi and on other forums with like wise goals there are probaly lots of potential candidates to help form such an elite.


I know my history thanks. It looks like you don't know yours. Christianity is not an indigenous European religion.

Besides that needed a Germanic warior aristocracy with a barely christanized Germanic warior ethos to defeat the Islamic hordes. And the Christianity they where fighting for was itself Germanized (http://www.amazon.com/Germanization-Early-Medieval-Christianity-Sociohistorical/dp/0195104668/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1235241629&sr=8-1) and Europeanized.


Where did you get this from?

I have read somewhere that Koko the gorilla is estimated to have an IQ that is slightly higher then what is shown as averge for certain countries as the averge IQ on worldscale. So maybe Barïn had based it on that.

Loddfafner
Saturday, February 21st, 2009, 10:22 PM
It is true that Creativity has attracted cranks and criminals primarily by trying to recruit skinheads but the underlying credo makes perfect sense to me.

It is not just a matter of a few bad recruits. The criminal and derelict component includes many of their "reverends" and even some claimants to the title of "pontifex maximus".

Creator recruits often end up dead, beaten, or incarcerated. I don't just mean the BS charges Hale caught, I mean genuine crimes in any society such as bank robbery.

Vandal Lord
Sunday, February 22nd, 2009, 05:42 AM
The ethno-nationalists are all more or less connected; most use the same type of propaganda techniques and have the same type of petty moralism dominating their individual beliefs even though this is merely outward appearance--in private they are quite the opposite.

Off course, I wasn't implying that we Germanic Ethnic Nationalists here at Skadi have no unity or agreement whatsoever. I was speaking of the wide array of different Nationalistic Movements in general whether it is Germanic Nationalism or not.

Vindefense
Sunday, February 22nd, 2009, 04:08 PM
What is wrong with the so called 'Nationalist Movement? Well, the biggest thing is that it has failed to unify itself, and instead "squabbles over inconsequential details." Even now as our culture is in the throws of death, diseased by insanity, and pride. And we sit here and argue. In the end it is not going to matter how Germanic, Nordic, or Romantic you are, whether you see yourself as Aryan, Indo-European or White. Whether your Swedish, German, English, or French. Whether your a socialist, individualist, or communist. Your culture is dying. You have a duty.

You are nothing but pawns in a game, and as such you are required to act accordingly. Do not find displeasure in this fact, but play your part to the utmost ability. Fulfill your destiny as your fathers of old have before you. What happens when the white blood cells in your own body fail in their task? We are here in defense of our culture. We must understand this. And right now our culture has no defensive organisms. And those who would defend it are busy nitpicking each other over irrelevant facts.

No, when the hordes of Mexico and Asia swarm into our heartlands, and they spill the blood of the descendants of Europe your differences will not matter. When Mother Europe's womb is rotten with Islam, and the legions of Africa rape and murder her children it will not matter one bit. What does matter is Defense. Force and Defense. Will you defend your common culture or will you let it die? Resist or Assist, there are only two options.

I am proud of my Germanic heritage, but I have a duty, and that is to fight to preserve it. Even if the ultimate end is death, I will. We must resist with all our might the death of our culture as it is our only purpose in life.

Eoppoyz
Sunday, February 22nd, 2009, 04:49 PM
We must unite to have a chance to defeat the multicultural experiment.

Jäger
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 12:56 AM
We must unite to have a chance to defeat the multicultural experiment.
No, we must separate! Separation is the underlying concept of anything that wants to evolve, separate from the weak, be left with the strong -> selection.
The problem is exactly that all those "uniters" want anyone within their ranks, just for masses, but we must have a certain kind of homogeneity among a leading elite, and certainly not the least common denominator.

burnitdown
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 01:03 AM
You need to get consensus among 2-5% of the leaders (actual leaders, not appointed leaders) in your society, or form a separatist movement.

It's not rocket science.

The nationalist movement alienates people because of its violent ethics, bad history, lack of complete plan, on and on.

It's dead in the water. Better to join Pat Buchanan and his Republicans.

What killed it?

What always kills Indo-Europeans: people are so individualists they're busy adorning themselves instead of working together.

Eoppoyz
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 01:08 AM
No, we must separate! Separation is the underlying concept of anything that wants to evolve, separate from the weak, be left with the strong -> selection.
The problem is exactly that all those "uniters" want anyone within their ranks, just for masses, but we must have a certain kind of homogeneity among a leading elite, and certainly not the least common denominator.

We must unite to defeat the multicultural experiment before we can separate again, just as we was before the multicultural society.

Sissi
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 02:22 AM
What is wrong with the so called 'Nationalist Movement? Well, the biggest thing is that it has failed to unify itself, and instead "squabbles over inconsequential details." Even now as our culture is in the throws of death, diseased by insanity, and pride. And we sit here and argue.
I wouldn't see the point of discussion forums if everyone agreed.


In the end it is not going to matter how Germanic, Nordic, or Romantic you are, whether you see yourself as Aryan, Indo-European or White. Whether your Swedish, German, English, or French. Whether your a socialist, individualist, or communist. Your culture is dying. You have a duty.
Why would I want to see myself as Aryan? I'm not an Indian or a Gypsy!
My culture is Austrian (German) and European. Nothing more or less. But what comes first is always Austrian. I won't support the Slovenians or Czechs if it means letting them to take advantage of my country and I don't care if that's "anti-White unity". My people always, always come first.

Bärin
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 04:08 AM
How you interpret this depends on spiritual and philosophical views. Many of the world's primitive cultures are primitive because either their ancient traditions forbade what we call modernism, or because they saw what we "whites" did to our natural world. Besides, the capacity for civilisation is not the only measure of superiority. Germanics and Romanics - I agree - are better at civilising.
The quality of lifestyle is an objective measure. Africa is a shithole infected with AIDS. If their primitive lifestyle kept them safe from these kind of things, it wouldn't be a problem. But it is, because it's an inferior one.


Interestingly, when the Angles and Saxons arrived in post-Roman Britain, instead of occupying the abandoned towns and cities, they avoided them and lived close to nature in the beginning. They favoured primitivism in comparison to the Romans at the time.
Anglo-Saxon primitivism was superior to African primitivism. Even in Stone Age societies by the way, Germanics were superior to non-Whites.

Where did you get this from?


Actually, the Jews have Israel partly because of extremely powerful Zionists in America and Europe.
Did I say something different? America and Europe hold Zionist politics, without their support Israel would disintegrate before you could say "it's over".


They need "affirmative action" (which I disagree with, naturally) because they are attempting to succeed in foreign lands, among foreign ethnicities. Still to this day, we favour our own kind, but not necessarily because they're superior. As I said earlier, some races may be less intelligent than we are, but they might - for example - have a much better understanding of the natural world.
Do Africans die of AIDS and destroy themselves through illness and rape because they have a better understanding than the natural world? Compare South Africa to Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is what South Africa is going to look like in a few years, because it's not under White (superior) rule anymore.


Yes, and animal and human sacrifice among the Celts. We've all had a period of deplorable primitivism. Ours merely ended sooner. Yet, because of that we've created an inherently corrupt "Western Civilisation" - probably the greatest threat to planet Earth.
I didn't say our people were perfect, I said we're superior. Even if we had deplorable stages, we got out of them. Non-Whites fail to do it. They fail to create superior cultures and environments. We Whites had to do it for them.


Remember - it was us whites who facilitated multiculturalism.
Yes, and that only proves we are the stronger. They are here only because we allow it. The greedy traitor businessmen aren't dumb. They employ immigrants because they get out cheaper. It makes their business bloom.


Piss-drinking is a religious, ritual practice used - among many cultures - to enter hallucinogenic, Shamanic states. Similar rituals were done by our Germanic ancestors and to someone like me who admires old traditions, it's an acceptable practice.
LOL bullshit.


Fair point. I should have phrased it: "prone to as many human failings as anyone else".
That doesn't change anything, you imply the same, that we are equal. We aren't. We are prone to less human failings than others.


Bärin, I'm not trying to talk you or anyone out of 'white supremacy'. It's an inevitable conclusion some reach given our plight. I just don't appreciate being thought of as cowardly, delusional, politically correct or lacking in conviction simply because I've reached a different logical conclusion. Believe me, most people I encounter think I'm 'racist' anyway so I'm really not gaining anything by taking the non-supremacist stance I take.
Your conclusion isn't logical, it's emotional.


Never did I say that there were European historical figures or mythology in the Bible your claim was that Christianity was the downfall of European civilization, you knowing your history I simply ask which one?
It was the downfall of all Europeans. Christianity preaches tolerance for the foreign and turning the other cheek. Hence we opened our doors to asylum seekers and other "charity acts".

Psychonaut
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 05:23 AM
Anglo-Saxon primitivism was superior to African primitivism.

The Anglo-Saxons were of a vastly different technological level (post-Iron Age) than were any pre-Colonial African tribes (Stone Age).


Even in Stone Age societies by the way, Germanics were superior to non-Whites.

There've never been such things as Stone Age Germanics. The Proto-Germanic language began in the Nordic Bronze Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age) around 1800 BC. Stone Age Europeans were Aurignacians, Gravettians, etc. So, if you'd like to make a fair comparison between us at a technologically comparable level to pre-Colonial Africans, you can't talk about Germanics since there was no such thing at the time. I'd be very interested to know in what way, specifically, you feel that Neolithic European tribes were superior to African or Asian tribes.

burnitdown
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 07:54 PM
We must unite to defeat the multicultural experiment before we can separate again, just as we was before the multicultural society.

It seems to me that multiculturalism is a symptom, not the root of the problem.

Eoppoyz
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 08:17 PM
It seems to me that multiculturalism is a symptom, not the root of the problem.

What's the problem then? The politicians? journalists? Capitalists? Commies or what?

Ormus
Monday, February 23rd, 2009, 10:59 PM
It was the downfall of all Europeans. Christianity preaches tolerance for the foreign and turning the other cheek. Hence we opened our doors to asylum seekers and other "charity acts".

Christianity was part of Europe for much longer than any other European cultural identity including the pagan Roman Empire, and succeeded in solidifying Europe and giving them common values and laws and a rallying reason to not only defend the motherland but all of Christendom, against invaders that would have otherwise made much farther incursions or altogether conquered the Europeans.

And I would even argue that not Christianity, but the liberalization and anti-European, anti-Christian culture of Post World War II is leading to the destruction of the West birth rates and defense of Europe were pretty peachy beforehand, Europe having its finger in just about every pudding in the world with its massive colonialization, which in turn helped modernize the rest of the world.

Hauke Haien
Tuesday, February 24th, 2009, 02:22 AM
If superiority didn't exist and we just had to fight for preservation of cultures because they're "unique" then we'd be fighting for the preservation of cannibalism, incest, piss drinking and other habits which still exist in some of the non-White primitive societies but most of us cringe when we hear about such things in the news, and that's for a reason, because we judge them via our culture and we find our culture superior to theirs.

We've all had a period of deplorable primitivism. Ours merely ended sooner.

I didn't say our people were perfect, I said we're superior. Even if we had deplorable stages, we got out of them.
Liberalism entitles itself to a claim of validity unlimited by time and space and judges our history accordingly, but that does not mean that it actually has such a claim.

In fact, there were no deplorable stages in our history. Our ancestors operated social systems that served them more or less well and whether they conformed to our current or future systems is of no relevance for a judgment of their worth. Considering that our so-called Western civilization is little more than an elaborate suicide booth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_booth), it is easily the worst of all imaginable worlds, even compared to a moral society that happened to include human sacrifice for various practical and spiritual reasons.

By analogy, the people operating and collaborating with such a system are the worst people ever and I do not see any room for supremacist pretensions there. The only consolation is that we retain the potential to improve again and if that raises us above all other humans, which it must by necessity, then that is nice to know, but under no circumstances does it constitute a justification for our claim to life. We do not need such a justification and if prompted, we refuse to offer one. We preserve and expand what is ours, like any healthy organism does.

Equilibrium
Thursday, February 26th, 2009, 10:17 AM
What's the problem then? The politicians? journalists? Capitalists? Commies or what?

It's the globalist economic elite who run Western pseudo-democracies from behind the scenes and manipulate and control us through the corporate media, the public schools and crooked politicians. Multi-culturalism is their creation, just like most evils of the post-modern age.

burnitdown
Thursday, February 26th, 2009, 11:56 AM
What's the problem then? The politicians? journalists? Capitalists? Commies or what?

The problem is that every society begins dying as soon as it is formed. The method of this death is loss of consensus -- you might call it pluralism.

Without a clear goal, it becomes a free-for-all where people can use political symbols as gestures of goodwill. Like, for example, "I'll bring jobs if you'll ignore the toxic waste in the rivers" and "I am kind to the lowly minority."

Soon you get a huge population of displaced, directionless, neurotic people who are willing to cling to the first idiot who promises them peace, love, happiness or other sappy absolutes that have nothing to do with reality.

We call those liberals, The Revolution, etc. but the real symptom is cognitive dissonance. They're out of touch with reality and society makes it easy for that to be the case.

This creates a situation where anyone realistic just cares about keeping the economy, defense and law enforcement operating, and the rest of the horde indulge in emotional outbursts that have disastrous consequences, like Obama.


It's the globalist economic elite who run Western pseudo-democracies from behind the scenes and manipulate and control us through the corporate media, the public schools and crooked politicians. Multi-culturalism is their creation, just like most evils of the post-modern age.

These people would be powerless if most voters weren't clueless monkeys who did exactly what their TV sets told them smart people do.

These voters do not understand that they are incompetent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikip edia.org%2Fwiki%2FDunning-Kruger_effect)

They want to assert power over the majority:
http://www.amerika.org/manifesto/ (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amer ika.org%2Fmanifesto%2F)

To do this, they destroy the majority by importing new citizens, and destroying anyone they can with their crippling neurosis.

Blod og Jord
Sunday, May 24th, 2009, 12:35 AM
I'm think what's wrong is big egos standing in the way of forming a serious nationalist example.
It's called a movement but it doesn't move in a uniform direction.
The people leave groups and form other groups,
because of their egos.
The stances aren't much different.
That's at least what happens in small nationalist and skin groups.
Someone has a problem with someone else,
and all which matters is the ego.
It's not that there aren't enough nationalist people,
it's there aren't enough acting in unison.
Instead of acting against the anti-nationalist threat,
they act against each other.
It happens in the online world too. I'm not the only to notice.
Stormfront used to be the only white nationalist forum.
But now it's not anymore.
There are many other white nationalist forums,
some even with less than 1,000 members in total.
It happens the same with the American Nazi parties. There isn't just one, there are many.
I'm not a white nationalist, but I'm think the white nationalist movement
should be more unified.

Nachtengel
Sunday, May 24th, 2009, 12:43 AM
I'm think what's wrong is big egos standing in the way of forming a serious nationalist example.
It's called a movement but it doesn't move in a uniform direction.
The people leave groups and form other groups,
because of their egos.
The stances aren't much different.
They are. Egos play their part, but so does difference in stance. There are many moderates who reject NS. Or the pan-Aryans, who lax their standards on what is considered white.

Mother Earth
Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010, 11:14 PM
What an interesting discussion. I agree there is a failure of message, but I'd like to add another reason: criminal and antisocial behavior. Look at the role models of the "movement". Sadly, plenty are convicted criminals, they had some trouble with the law, even murdered. Adolf Hitler being left aside, there are many more contemporary figures: Kevin Alfred Strom, David Lane, Joseph Paul Franklin, Charles Manson, Timothy McVeigh, Varg Vikernes, the KKK, racist prison gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood and so forth.

It's not that people don't want to preserve their race, but they don't want to be part of the same movement where such criminals are glorified. What the movement needs is a series of positive role models. Family men, dedicated mothers. We need to see more love for our kind and less hatred for the rest.

Horseman
Thursday, March 4th, 2010, 12:18 AM
M'lady, I agree with you. All the hatred just gives the appearance of an inferiority complex among predominantly white males. Then there is also the problem with regional differences. The veiws and opinions will differ from region to region.

When I think of "Germanic preservation" , I think of our children learning our lore and language such as the great poems 'Battle of Brunanburgh' 'The Wanderer'. Learning, our folks role in establishing law and representative government. Learning the values of our folkway. And at that point either deciding to embrace these ideals or abandon them as they see fit. Not having this "superiority" business shoved down their throats which only serves to push more of our folk into the multicultural camp. Its woruldraede that those who seek power probably should be denied that power at all costs:) and I welcome a more balanced world veiw. In which we're more focused on bettering ourselves rather than simply belittling others.

Further, "nationalism" based on what I've seen is not a good solution, Frankly I think each of us should glory in the uniqueness of our own ancestral tribes and their uniqueness within the Germanic community rather than try to present a "pan-Germanic" front. Nationalism presumes a unity with folk I may or may not agree with and principles, to my mind, trump ethnic ties.

Education is the best way forward, present the real Norse, the real Angles and Saxons, instead of this bestial stereotype. Instill a pride and genuine love of that culture and the rest will take care of itself. IMHO:)

Witta
Monday, May 31st, 2010, 09:06 AM
The problem is fundamentalism. The success of the bnp has been directly proportional to nick griffins attempts to water it down. Trying to convince the public they should become nazis just scares them and drives them away.

Zogbot
Thursday, July 15th, 2010, 07:38 AM
Oh yeah, the BNP has been really successful hasn't it :D
What a joke. The BNP is dead in the water, a front for Gri££ins ego.

The problem isn't fundamentalism. The problem is that nobody is actually being fundamental. Nobody is willing to concede to leadership, even if it were to arise. Nobody is willing to say: well, I believe this instead of that, but I am man enough to set it aside for now. There is also a serious lack of leadership, a problem that has no direct solution. We must bide our time. But when he appears, then we must rally behind him unquestionably. We'll know who he is when he comes.

Roemertreu
Friday, July 23rd, 2010, 03:33 PM
I think the biggest problem is that nothing of note has been done to further the cause of Whites. Whatever you may think of the NAACP or NOI, they have real tangible results that address the concerns of Blacks. If American3p had half the results of the NAACP, people would come. Instead they do the same old thing -- cry and moan. Results matter.

Smirky
Friday, July 23rd, 2010, 04:12 PM
The problem is fundamentalism. The success of the bnp has been directly proportional to nick griffins attempts to water it down. Trying to convince the public they should become nazis just scares them and drives them away.

If the white population is willing to be killed off rather than become Nazis, then good riddance. Sometimes I wonder why I became involved with this cause on a physical level. Everyone thinks their ideas are the best, so we have all chiefs and no Indians. There is no consensus on ANYTHING! I led a Nationalist group in my area for about a year; we were really making progress and had the potential to become a large group. But before that happened, someone decided they could do things better and formed another group with himself as the leader. Needless to say, there is nothing happening here anymore.
I hate to say it, but we need much more suffering before we will take this seriously. We will need to become very militant and ruthless towards our own people. Our race needs a serious enema, we have let the crap remain far too long.

Erbe
Friday, July 23rd, 2010, 04:54 PM
I don't like to put my truth in here, cause i am mainly religious related probably and see the problem of todays desastrous development being in the social unwareness and hopelessness in the turn away from religion and god.

So i don't want to follow political direction. But the white man i don't understand, he is a devil. Always had geniusses that lead to further develoments and social progression. And today? Today he gets tooken away from his most inner specifications. Today i think it's over with the white man. He is too weak, became unprotected btw. lost his natural defence.

To give a statement of the national movement someone has to be involved in reality in it for long time, to know what is going on. Then this person can describe it.

KasparHauser
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 01:29 PM
I'm not a big fan of Stormfront. I used to be on there but I was kicked out for admitting that I admire Korean culture. They aren't very open minded or intelligent people.

Old Winter
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 02:42 PM
The problem is that there is no Nationalist movement in any shape or form.

KasparHauser
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 03:01 PM
Please explain.

Old Winter
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 05:47 PM
I led a Nationalist group in my area for about a year; we were really making progress and had the potential to become a large group. But before that happened, someone decided they could do things better and formed another group with himself as the leader. Needless to say, there is nothing happening here anymore.


I see that everywhere, groups splitting up and then after a while all groups are gone, then a new one starts, it splits up and the circle repeats itself.

Old Winter
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Please explain.

There is no nationalist movement (in any shape or form) that i can join, be a member of, get a monthly or 3, 6 monthly paper from, there is nothing that i can join, absolutely nothing.

Hersir
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 05:53 PM
There is no nationalist movement (in any shape or form) that i can join, be a member of, get a monthly or 3, 6 monthly paper from, there is nothing that i can join, absolutely nothing.

Why dont you aquire knowledge and experience, and start a group? I think it's the reason why many of these groups have failed, they didnt have good educated leaders with experience.

Sigurd
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 06:01 PM
Why dont you aquire knowledge and experience, and start a group? I think it's the reason why many of these groups have failed, they didnt have good educated leaders with experience.

The other reason being of course that people suddenly begin having a "Führer complex", thinking that they're the better leader than the next man, starting a new group of their own that stands at war with the other group instead of fighting for the things that matter. ;)

Bernhard
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 06:03 PM
There is no nationalist movement (in any shape or form) that i can join, be a member of, get a monthly or 3, 6 monthly paper from, there is nothing that i can join, absolutely nothing.

Have you tried Voorpost? I'm not a member, but it seems to be the best there is in the Netherlands and Flanders. They aren't very succesful at the moment (most non-nationalist people probably haven't heard of them), but I think that they have some potential. In Flanders there is also the relatively new Nieuw-solidaristisch Alternatief, but I don't know if you can become a member in the Netherlands. The problem with the latter in my opinion is that they focus on youth groups too much, something which you probably don't like as well.

Wulfram
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 06:16 PM
Why dont you aquire knowledge and experience, and start a group? I think it's the reason why many of these groups have failed, they didnt have good educated leaders with experience.

Those preliminary groups who failed were considered harmless and necessary by the conspirators. They acted as a good advertisement for the more intelligent-minded folks who wanted to participate in the cause but were instead turned off by the often oafish behavior that seems to dominate most of these localized Nationalist movements.

My biggest worry is that they will come down hard and swiftly on any attempt to start a group whose members can express their views in an articulate manner. The last thing they want is a community of people that are making sense about the evils that plague our lands.

Old Winter
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Why dont you aquire knowledge and experience, and start a group? I think it's the reason why many of these groups have failed, they didnt have good educated leaders with experience.

I am not a educated leader with experience ;) i am a internet warrior who mostly just want to build his modelkits, i am not even the leader of my toilet :(

nordfrisk
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 06:59 PM
the problem is that nationalism doesn't fit in the modern world. people today think highly of tolerance and democracy which does not normally pair up with nationalism as in the past. nationalism at most today is pride and wearing flags of ones country at a football match. remember this nationalism has always normally ended in war because of dictatorships that seek nationalism in imperialism. ww1 debatively started due to slavic nationalism in the balkans, ww2 with germanic nationalism. but thats a very broad statement. to be honest nationalism is too violent. however this website seems to promote in intention of peace nationalism (maybe not most of its members). however i only nationalist movements working if it is modernly and democratically voted by the people. violence always ends in violence. ghandi basically brought his way in india and pakistan through peace alone. tibet is supported around the world by many because of peaceful initiatives. south africa's appartheid ended that way by the blacks. the world is very ANTI violence when it comes to politics especially in the western world. revolutions never happen anymore in the west without utter anihilation. well to nationalists unlike myself i say peace is the answer and will give you what you seek far faster than violence.

Hersir
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 07:36 PM
The other reason being of course that people suddenly begin having a "Führer complex", thinking that they're the better leader than the next man, starting a new group of their own that stands at war with the other group instead of fighting for the things that matter. ;)

Yes, that what we had in Norway with "Norgespatriotene". Their leader was a total idiot who made an ass out of himself in every debate.

Thusnelda
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 08:54 PM
Here in Germany the nationalist movement is carrying out some important steps. The two most successful German far-right parties, NPD and DVU, are asking their respective membership about plans for a fusion right now. The NPD is currently in two of the 16 state parliaments. More than 90% of the members of the NPD are in favour of a fusion with the DVU. It´s highly likely that both parties are going to celebrate a fusion this year or next year.

There´s a similar development going on with the two largest moderate-rightwing/conservative parties, "Die Republikaner" and "Pro Deutschland". Both began to work and fight together and don´t want to run against each other in upcoming elections.

To sum it up, there´s a so called two-block solution going on in Germany. The two extremist parties form one block and the two moderate rightwing parties form the united other block. The nationalist scene has the choice to pick and support either the extremist or the moderate wing of the scene.

Well, if you ask me I´d say that this is the best solution. It´s impossible to completely unite the extremist and the moderate wings, both positions are too different from each other. After all, two blocks are better than 5 or 6 competing rightwing parties. There will be better chances to reach the 5% limit in elections. Votes of nationalists and rightwingers don´t scatter on countless tiny parties anymore but accumulate in one of the two blocks.

Ward
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 10:25 PM
To sum it up, there´s a so called two-block solution going on in Germany. The two extremist parties form one block and the two moderate rightwing parties form the united other block. The nationalist scene has the choice to pick and support either the extremist or the moderate wing of the scene.

Thusnelda! Hows it going, eh? :)

Just curious, in what ways do "moderates" differ on the issues from "extremists"?

KasparHauser
Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 07:15 AM
There is no nationalist movement (in any shape or form) that i can join, be a member of, get a monthly or 3, 6 monthly paper from, there is nothing that i can join, absolutely nothing.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I guess things are different in your country. Here in Australia we have at least three Nationalist parties.