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Deary
Sunday, February 8th, 2009, 10:11 PM
How do you feel about apologizing and what were you taught about it? Are you one who is hesitant to apologize or not? When and when isn't it appropriate to apologize? How do your religious views or experience with relationships and marriage affect your stance on apologizing?

Loddfafner
Sunday, February 8th, 2009, 10:26 PM
Apologizing is, mostly, a gesture of strength. Refusing to apologize, for the most part, is a sign of immaturity. The exception is when the apology is for merely existing.

Patrioten
Sunday, February 8th, 2009, 10:32 PM
If the other person apologizes first and I feel that we were both wrong I will in turn apologize, but I wont go first, it's to do with dignity I guess, as well as a "I am right" attitude :P. I'm not the type of person who does or says things and then quickly regrets them either, I have too much self-control for that. Even if I have regrets I tend to think that I was mostly in the right and feel that it is better to not show remorse. But again, if the other person makes a move first and apologizes, and I feel that I too was at fault, I am often willing to apologize myself.

Sigurd
Sunday, February 8th, 2009, 10:33 PM
Whether I view an apology as a sign of weakness, or a sign of genuine remorse entirely depends upon the situation it is uttered in, the tone and sincerity attached to it and most importantly, the very spirit of it.

In truth, I actually consider it a sign of strength of character if someone can reflect upon their choices and realise that they have made a wrongful one: That is if they show an excessive spirit to make up for it and do not ask for unconditional forgiveness but request instead an opportunity to show that they are made of better flesh. That is how I do it and this is how I expect other people to act: Don't whine, just say you're trying to do it better next time around.

Cheap apologies that are intended as meaningless absolutions from guilt I do however see as a sign of weakness: I believe that one has to bear the consequences of their actions, rather than wishing that a deed could be undone. However, since I tend to be rather forgiving anyhow - I generally give people a chance to prove themselves; just like negative deeds can bear negative consequences, good deeds will bear positive consequences. You reap what you sow.

What is important to me there is that one intends to "take it as a man" and acccept that what has happened, has happened - just do it better next time, end of story. ;)

Jäger
Sunday, February 8th, 2009, 10:35 PM
If I recognize that I did something wrong, I apologize.
Apologies can never be words, only deeds.

forkbeard
Sunday, February 8th, 2009, 11:49 PM
I think its civilisation that sees an apology as a sign of weakness. I remember in one of the Conan the barbarian novels Conan says "manners and politeness are the mark of a barbaric society", since any implied, real or imagined insult would rapidly lead to bloodshed.
Makes sense to me.
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp234/wilhelmII/16041-26292.gif

Forseti
Monday, February 9th, 2009, 02:23 AM
If you wronged someone, apologizing is definitely a sign of strength. All the more if the other person hasn't even learned yet what you did. Apologizing is a threefold process: 1. being intellectually and morally able to recognize the harm or injustice done to others : an essential prerequisite for this is empathy (= the ability to reflect on the occurrence in a manner, as if you were the party who was offended or to whom injustice was done), 2. a set of firm moral vales enabling you to differentiate between right and wrong, and 3. the strength and willpower to take responsibility for your wrongdoings and actions.

I agree with Jager that sincere apologies have to be corroborated by actions. An action which made an apology necessary is usually combined with a severe breach of trust : trust which cannot be restored by a casual "Sorry, pal!" Trust earned and built over years can be destroyed in a single moment by letting people down when they counted on your friendship.

Contrariwise, the inability to apologize indicates either moral shortcomings, character deficiencies or intellectual deficits.

To err is human, and we all make mistakes. We express things at times - for example if we are angry or enraged - which are absolutely inappropriate. I believe everyone of us knows a situation from his past where he did the wrong instead of the right thing.

The question is how we react to being wronged : When I am wronged, I accept apologies which are sincerely meant once or maybe twice. Having said that, if being wronged or insulted by someone turns into a regular issue, one has to reflect whether such individuals are still worth to be counted amongst the group of one's friends or comrades and if one wants to associate with people whose character is vile, hostile or at best instable. A man is amongst others judged and assessed by his friends, the people he associates with and their character.

Such people will become a liability to yourself. They will have a negative influence on your character and well-being and frequently try to keep you in distress. It's maybe better to disassociate oneself from such persons completely, all the more they do not even recognize their wrongdoings or are not willing to accept any responsibility for them.

I prefer a small circle of loyal, polite, respectful and responsible friends on which I can rely. Initially, I thought this is a question of life experience and maturity, but over time I discovered that this is not a question of age. There are people in their twenties, even teenagers, who have a pleasant character and who take responsibility for their actions, and there are people in their thirties, forties and fifties who are irresponsible and immature cowards with a flawed character.

Appearances are in addition frequently deceptive. Many people can be very pleasant and reveal their true nature only in times of temptation, of a moral crisis or when they can gain benefits for themselves. However, there are often indicators. If people don't mind their own business and focus on doing positive and productive things and helping others, but spend lots of their energy to badmouth others behind their back, they will probably also badmouth you behind your back and change allegiances, as it suits them.

I did well in my life by disassociating myself from the gossipers and badmouths.

Dagna
Monday, February 9th, 2009, 03:06 AM
I believe refusing to apologize when you've gone wrong is a sign of immaturity. As is apologizing for something you are not guilty of, just because you wish to please some foreign powers. That is what Germanics are doing today and I believe it is dishonorable.

Siebenbürgerin
Tuesday, February 10th, 2009, 11:59 PM
I'm not considering it a sign of weakness to apologise if I've done something inappropriate. But I'm considering a sign of weakness to crawl on all fours and beg for forgiveness endlessly. If the person doesn't want to accept my apology, then we move on. And in my view deeds count more than words too. There are many peoples who sweettalk but are rotten on the inside.

Löwenherz
Wednesday, February 11th, 2009, 12:05 AM
"Apology" is one of those words that is so widely misused that its wrong usage has all but overcome its correct usage. It actually means to explain yourself, and is in the nature of a vindication or defense. If I bump into someone in a crowd, he turns and says "what the heck?" or something like, and I say, "I'm sorry, I didn't see you", then the apology part is the "I didn't see you". Whether it 'makes it all better' or not depends on whether the person offended agrees that "I didn't see you" is sufficient justification for the accidental contact.

As far as I know, the only place this sense of the word is really retained is in theology, where "apologetics" and "apology" are used in this etymological sense.

What makes things interesting in everyday life is the way we mix (and confuse) our statements of sorrow or regret and our justifications for our actions. "I'm sorry, I didn't see you" is a two-pronged response, offering both an expression of sorrow and a partial defense in the hopes that the offended person will be soothed. They don't necessarily go together, though, and it's useful to try to keep them separate.

It's also useful sometimes to focus on simply taking responsibility, whereas apologizing is often (for some people pretty much always) an attempt to evade responsibility one way or the other. How hard would it be to say, "I'm sorry, I should have been watching more carefully where I was going". That usually works better as an "apology", anyway.

Psychonaut
Wednesday, February 11th, 2009, 01:13 AM
Owning up to your actions and taking responsibility for the consequences is, in my opinion, an intrinsic part of honor. Apologizing often fills this role, and in doing so is a fundamentally honorable act. Lying about, or refusing to make amends for your actions when you were in the wrong is most certainly, again in my opinion, either immature or sociopathic behavior (depending on the circumstances and individual). However, as Dagna also pointed out, there is no honor in an unwarranted apology; such is an act of deference and abasement.

forkbeard
Wednesday, February 11th, 2009, 01:32 AM
If a dude is in a relationship and is accused of something, just apologise anyhow as it avoids hassle. Women like apologies even when guilty themselves as it gives them a boost when they are low. Anything for a quiet life. After 20 years of marriage I can tell you it is best to act dumb, deaf and tread on egg shells just to keep the peace.

Siebenbürgerin
Wednesday, February 11th, 2009, 01:37 AM
If a dude is in a relationship and is accused of something, just apologise anyhow as it avoids hassle. Women like apologies even when guilty themselves as it gives them a boost when they are low. Anything for a quiet life. After 20 years of marriage I can tell you it is best to act dumb, deaf and tread on egg shells just to keep the peace.
I'm not so sure that's a good view. My mother sometimes complained my father's apologies weren't honest. She felt it and that by its own was a reason for fights between them.

Löwenherz
Wednesday, February 11th, 2009, 03:55 AM
Owning up to your actions and taking responsibility for the consequences is, in my opinion, an intrinsic part of honor. Apologizing often fills this role, and in doing so is a fundamentally honorable act. Lying about, or refusing to make amends for your actions when you were in the wrong is most certainly, again in my opinion, either immature or sociopathic behavior (depending on the circumstances and individual). However, as Dagna also pointed out, there is no honor in an unwarranted apology; such is an act of deference and abasement.
The word "integrity" comes to mind also (not that "honor" needed improvement; that pretty much says it all).

And I agree that there is no honor or integrity in a fake apology. And I question, with Siebenbürgerin, whether that can even work over the long term, as an insincere apology is often perceived as such.

I do think there's room for propitiation or appeasement, even when one believes one is in the right. For example, if I do something that offends my wife, I will not say I did something wrong or say I'm sorry I did it unless I actually believe I was wrong or actually feel sorry. That does NOT mean that I can't still respect her feelings and care about her and even try to 'make it up to her'. There is no breach of integrity in saying "I did this for this reason and I still believe it was the right thing to do, but I am sorry that you are hurt by this and I would like to make it up to you somehow."

Ragnar Lodbrok
Tuesday, February 17th, 2009, 03:57 AM
I'd usually say that it depends on what the person in question is apologizing for...:D whether its honorable or not

Siebenbürgerin
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 10:55 AM
Might I add that maybe you can act like that when your couple is solid, but in an early stage of a relationship, it would be the worst thing to do. That's the easiest way to be dropped with the explanation that "you are too nice".
Or you can be turned into a target of emotional abuse. Because the other side will know you're going to apologise anyway even if it isn't your fault if you make it a habit and take an advantage of your weakness.

Bärin
Saturday, March 7th, 2009, 08:47 PM
I was taught to apologize when I make a mistake. But today people expect apology for anything even remotely "offensive". One thing I won't apologize for is my politics. I think miscegenation is wrong for example and ANYONE who miscegenates is a traitor, I don't care if they're a friend or family, I'll not exempt them and apologize if my views hurt their feelings.

Zimobog
Saturday, March 7th, 2009, 10:27 PM
As someone who has ended relationships with people who refused to apologize, I would have to say that I consider a heatfelt apology to be an important act of maintainence in relationships.

When it is my turn, I can't say I love to apologize because of the embarrassment that goes along with it. But I am sure this is nessecary if I am going to be an honorable human.

I have apologized to people who were unaware of an unfair situation I put them in or people whom I had said or thought unfair things about. Even though noone was aware I had done these things, I felt that the apology was important to me alone.

Therefore it cannot be a weakness, if no apology was expected or demanded. I simply regluate myself according to my ethics.

NordicGuard
Tuesday, September 1st, 2009, 06:03 PM
For me I have no problem apologizing when I truly wish to express being sorry for something. I used to be a doormat before I finished grade school and would apologize profusely. I did mean it, I was just constantly worrying about others being evenly mildly offended or hurt by my actions, I've since matured and have found a better balance where I can take my own feelings into account as well.

I won't apologize if I've done something which conforms to my standards of proper behavior but if I knowingly behaved unbecomingly or through error caused a grievance, etc. then I have no problem giving an honest and heartfelt apology. I also prefer to apologize before the other person is aware of whatever it is merited the apology, I feel this is only fair so that you don't keep it a secret to apologize to only if caught.

If you're a reasonably empathic person and strive to be as self-controlled as possible, I don't think apologizing is an issue.

Wodens Day
Tuesday, September 1st, 2009, 08:13 PM
Yes I think it is a sign of weakness. If you are wrong, so what, everybody's wrong sometimes, but that doesn't mean you have to apologise for it and forfeit your standing by submitting in deference to someone else because of it. Never apologise and only admit you're wrong if your being wrong has caused misfortune.

Resist
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 07:16 AM
It's a sign of weakness if you apologize because someone forces you too. It implies obedience. I don't think it's right when parents ask their children to "apologize, or else" and leave it at that. The child has to understand he did something wrong, and decide to apologize for it on his own.

Wulfram
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 09:08 PM
There is a trend among Whites that grows worse every year, which is apologizing to negroes for even the tiniest details, and not just for the slavery or the lynchings.(In spite of the fact that a very tiny percentage of Whites ever owned slaves or participated in lynchings)
I have seen Whites in the grocery store inadvertantly veer their carts in front of a negro, realize what they "have done", and then apologize as if they physically hurt them.
To the negro, if a White apologizes then to them that means they are weak. The once mighty warriors now groveling before one of the conquered. :thumbdown
I used to be this way. "Why did I just say that?" I began to ask myself, because the negro never seemed to care or kept right on looking at me with contempt. It took me a while before I finally figured out that I had been brainwashed to grovel. Now I never apologize to them unless it is for something pretty obvious, such as an accidental bump.
Whites are slowly being indoctrinated to prostrate themselves, even if their ancestors never owned a single slave. Each time one apologizes it is as if they are screaming out for all to hear “I am so sorry for what my people did to yours!”

Chlodovech
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 09:46 PM
Without apologizing for a genuine mistake the individual loses all credibility, the sooner you apologize, the better.

Institutions apologizing for particular historical chapters is a different matter, especially because it's all about current day politics anyway, and it's always the usual suspects who have to apologize, the Germans because of WW2 and the Jewish business, the Anglosaxons for slavery and the conflicts with the Indians, the Afrikaners for Apartheid, the Church for the crusades and pogroms, and every state that matters in Europe for its colonialism.

You don't see too often a progressive person having remorse about anything except for the things they don't claim to be themselves, even though they have a lot to ponder about.

Beornulf
Sunday, October 4th, 2009, 02:24 AM
It depends on what's done wrong, people sometimes apologize for the sake of it or for the most stupid things which I find to be rather meek. Saying your sorry is generally of little use when you then make little effort to make sure what you're apologizing for doesn't re-occur.

I think an apology today is more a thing of convenience if anything.

Cliodhna
Sunday, February 7th, 2010, 07:35 AM
Personally, I do not think an apology is a sign of weakness but rather an expression of our remorse after doing something hurtful and an invitation to invite forgiveness from the other person when it is truly meant. However, one should never apologize unless one is truly sorry. Apologizing just because you feel you should is a sign of weakness in its highest form and is allowing someone to control you.

Reshki
Sunday, February 7th, 2010, 01:34 PM
I separate the saying of "I'm sorry" from apologies.

"I'm sorry." Is a statement of remorse that I'll only give if I'm truly remorseful, and had nothing to do with whether or not I think I am right.

Apologies, well, that's a different story. An apology offer by a person is a sign of strength that they can admit to having wronged someone.

Apologizing because you are forced to is a sign of weakness.

And yes, I've gottn in some real sh*t in the past because someone told me to apologize (or worse, told me to say I'm sorry), or else. I usually replied "F-you I'll go for the or else"

Kurt Steiner
Sunday, February 7th, 2010, 03:04 PM
Psychologically, apology is a sign of weakness whatever the case. In America white people are constasntly pressured to publicly apologize and admit their criminality when actually they are correct and honest. They are not allowed to defend their statements. Many have been fired, runined economically and harassed by the government for decades because they dared criticize the American race totem, black supremacy.
Currently the mayor of Las Vegas has said: "Obama is not welcome here."
Local black supremacists are demanding that he humiliate himself with an apology.
So far he has refused. There was no counter demand that local black racists and Obama both apologize for a litany of crimes. Therefore, I think this white mayor will also cave and apologize while groveling.
I have noticed that women advocate apology far more than men. It is a feminine trait that is mindless and only acts as cover for those in fault. Its done in the feminine conception of peace, i.e, verbal submission.
I believe that in a case where, a tyrannical parasitical minority can not only milk the majority for financial support but also enjoy racial perks and powers to intimidate, it is stupid to apologize. Resistance is the answer.
Your manhood begins when you stand up for what you believe is right, when you form collectives within your tribe for self-defense, and when you do not back down before racist bullies.

Blod og Jord
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 04:05 PM
No, it's no sign of weakness. It's a social necessity to make things work between people.
Of course I'm talking about genuine apology for when you do something wrong to someone yourself, not politically correct apologies which are absurd, like apologizing for what your great-great-great-great grandfather did or even people who weren't related to you.
I apologize if I cross the line and realize it. I do it because I want to show the other person I feel responsible and regretful for what I did.
However the most important thing is not the apology itself, that's a formality. The most important thing is not to repeat the same mistake, at least intentionally, because then your apology becomes worthless.

Ragnar Lodbrok
Thursday, April 8th, 2010, 12:16 AM
No, it's no sign of weakness. It's a social necessity to make things work between people.
Of course I'm talking about genuine apology for when you do something wrong to someone yourself, not politically correct apologies which are absurd, like apologizing for what your great-great-great-great grandfather did or even people who weren't related to you.
I apologize if I cross the line and realize it. I do it because I want to show the other person I feel responsible and regretful for what I did.
However the most important thing is not the apology itself, that's a formality. The most important thing is not to repeat the same mistake, at least intentionally, because then your apology becomes worthless.

you guys certainly have an interesting outlook on this sort of thing.

Drottin
Friday, April 9th, 2010, 08:20 PM
To apologize is absolutely necessary. Some excuse themselves all the time, it is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign that this person has low self-esteem, or use the excuse the wrong way. Then it is your duty to tell this person about it, and help the person to improve. Never let this go unnoticed, you have to take care of people.

People who do not apologize for the wrong they have done, they are cowards. And I will never accept such behavior, not my brothers or anyone who has good moral standards.

I often meet people who look down on the ground, no real Viking looks down into the ground. Keep your chin high, be proud.

Jäger
Friday, April 9th, 2010, 08:57 PM
I often meet people who look down on the ground, no real Viking looks down into the ground. Keep your chin high, be proud.
Except if there is something interesting :)

Cuchullain
Saturday, June 12th, 2010, 11:28 PM
I believe that if you have wronged someone and you feel guilt for it then this is your conscience telling you that you have broken your moral code. If you then go to that person, admit that you have wronged them, show remorse and apologise this is strength of character and a show of honour.

While this view is not completely altruistic I believe that Apologies restore our moral balance when we truly know we were wrong. The refusal of an apology in this case would be an affront to the person wronged but also a dishonour to ourselves.:thumbup

Erlkönig
Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 10:44 AM
Apologizing in todays society, western society anyway, is a wasted gesture. People want to be asked for their forgiveness but they dont want to give it, they will instead scorn the individual saying things like, "if you were really sorry you would not have done it". Repentance does not go down in western society, all they care about is punishment.

An apology was once an emotional exchange, you would offer your shame and regret, and the other person would offer forgiveness. However apologizing has been turned into a sign of weakness it is viewed as allowing people to act as if they have moral high ground over you, and treat you with disdain.

Cuchullain
Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 10:56 AM
Apologizing in todays society, western society anyway, is a wasted gesture. People want to be asked for their forgiveness but they dont want to give it, they will instead scorn the individual saying things like, "if you were really sorry you would not have done it". Repentance does not go down in western society, all they care about is punishment.

An apology was once an emotional exchange, you would offer your shame and regret, and the other person would offer forgiveness. However apologizing has been turned into a sign of weakness it is viewed as allowing people to act as if they have moral high ground over you, and treat you with disdain.

You do make a good point there Alfablot. I have many examples of the exact circumstance you are speaking of. I look at it in terms of my honour and I don't allow people to hold the moral high ground over me.

I will apologise once and if the person I am apologising to takes this attitude then I see at as irrelevant. I will know that I have done the honourable thing and my conscience is clear. An apology should really be a two way street in that if you make one the person should be honourable enough to accept it. If If the apology is rejected despite its sincerity that is their problem.

If it is a fickle apology then that is a different issue.

starprincess
Monday, June 28th, 2010, 02:59 PM
How do you feel about apologizing and what were you taught about it? Are you one who is hesitant to apologize or not? When and when isn't it appropriate to apologize? How do your religious views or experience with relationships and marriage affect your stance on apologizing?

I believe in apologizing for something I felt was wrong. I can be very stubborn at times, if I feel in my heart that I am right, then I have no need to apologize for sticking to something I believe in. I shouldn't have to apologize for something that I am not sorry for, because then what is the purpose of an apology if you do not mean it, it is not sincere. I do have my moments where I will apologize just to end an argument, but its a very small argument and probably not even worth the trouble ;)

For example, if my husband and I are arguing over something, and I am dead set that I am right, I will not give in... lol because the majority of the time I am right. ;) However, there have been a few times during our relationship and marriage where I have been wrong, and I knew I was. So I then apologized for it, because in my heart I was truly sorry.

Gary in TX
Tuesday, June 29th, 2010, 12:02 AM
It really depends on the situation.

If I'm in the wrong then I'm more than happy to apologize. My ego isn't so big that I automatically think that I'm never in the wrong or that I don't ever make mistakes. The only thing is that I'm sure not going to grovel, EVER.

If I make a mistake out of anger or if I accidentially hurt someone's feelings when I didn't mean to then I'll sincerely say that I'm sorry and I'll apologize. Maybe I'll try and give a short explanation for why I did or said whatever mistake it is that I did wrong and then that's it.

I expect to talk it out with that friend or family member in a calm rational manner and then for the issue to get squashed and for there to be no ill feelings on either side. Otherwise what's the point? I'm sure not going to apologize in a heartfelt manner if I believe that the person is going keep re-hashing everything in an attempt to get me to feel bad.

So IMO that's where the difference lies. :shrug

Apologizing if you're clearly in the wrong is honourable IMO just so long as you conduct yourself accordingly. In fact in most cases it would be a dishonourable action on your part NOT TO apologize if you've done someone in your life wrong (that might actually be against your moral code) and you feel bad about it.

Groveling and apologizing over and over again on the other hand is not honourable and is a total sign of weakness though. Some people apologize so much that it seems like they're saying that they're sorry for their very existence.....forget that.

Waldläufer
Tuesday, June 29th, 2010, 07:35 PM
An apology was once an emotional exchange, you would offer your shame and regret, and the other person would offer forgiveness. However apologizing has been turned into a sign of weakness it is viewed as allowing people to act as if they have moral high ground over you, and treat you with disdain.

That wouldn't be an apology, but a demand for forgiveness without giving the other person a choice. Apologizing requires strength exactly because people can choose too reject you.

Consider that there are really bad things that people can do to each other. Let's say someone made you a cripple because he was driving drunk. Are you really obliged to accept an apology no matter what as long as it's honest?

Kurt Steiner
Sunday, February 12th, 2012, 06:18 PM
While a few of us are working to save and extend our civil rights, white cowards are groveling and apologizing to black racists.
Such people cannot be trusted.

Edie
Sunday, February 12th, 2012, 06:34 PM
I very much approve of apologies, and I'm not afraid to make it known when one is needed.

For example, an apology is always in order when someone thinks I'm wrong about something.

Ulvoktr
Thursday, February 23rd, 2012, 10:01 AM
If I have done wrong to someone or realized that I was mistaken, I see no problem with apologizing.

Gerhardt Maritz
Thursday, February 23rd, 2012, 10:56 AM
It is sign of strenght and integrity.

Jens
Friday, June 22nd, 2012, 05:53 PM
Apologizing is honorable when you did something wrong. Self respect reveals itself in the strength to overcome your pride.

It is a sign of weakness when you do it as a form of capitulation when you were not in the wrong but are too weak to stand your ground on an issue. Self respect and honor requires you not to act against your conscience.

Gustaaf
Friday, June 22nd, 2012, 06:05 PM
Civility is never weak. It takes a strong person to distance himself from his own biases and approach the situation neutrally, giving precedence the following and not to his own anger: Humility, civility amiability - these are the cornerstones of a strong society. Places like NYC where the people are so angry at the world and at people that they'll swear at you for looking at them, accidentally getting in their way, or trying to make idle conversation (a lost art), are spiritually dead in my opinion. I refuse to contribute to the same happening in my corner of the world.

tigerlily
Friday, June 22nd, 2012, 07:20 PM
I think failure to apologize when you are in the wrong is the real weakness. It shows that you care too much about what people think, and are governed by your pride. This is a character defect which may lead to your unraveling one day, so I'd say it is better to deal with it early and just swallow your pride when the situation calls for it.
I know it can be tough though. I don't pretend to be a saint myself in this regard. :P